From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Oct 29 08:50:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13123 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:50:15 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id HAA20912 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:57:44 -0600 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:57:44 -0600 Message-Id: <199810291357.HAA20912@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #996 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, October 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 996 In this digest: IN> Tethers in New Zealand? (fwd) Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #995 Re: IN> A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> a little revelations humor Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> a little revelations humor IN> A little revelations humour [Spoiler if I got it right] Re: IN> symphony question IN> Feast of Blades Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> St. Ives IN> Tethers tethers tethers... Re: IN> A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:46:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Diane J. Donaldson" Subject: IN> Tethers in New Zealand? (fwd) I do like this mailing list. Here's some tether ideas from Alan in New Zealand; I've added a few more of my own at the end: - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:29:47 +1300 From: Alan Jackson To: andie@geog.umd.edu Subject: IN> Tethers in New Zealand? Sorry about the direct mail, but I only get the digest of the list, & I don't know the posting address (what is it ??) could you repost this to the list. Anyway - tethers in New Zealand! - - the Beehive - definitely Malphas. - - sky city casino (auckland) - Nybbas or Andrealphus. or better yet Mammon (Greed) - - Ruapehu, white island or Nuarahoe(sp) - gabriel. - - Waitomo caves - David. (or possibly some black power HQ's, although malphas might have them) - - Kapiti Island & various others - definitely Jordi - - various left over hippie communes - Novalis - - Camp David (obscure Fundamentalist camp near Kaikoura) - fallen Khalid - - windy wellington - Janus (possibly the weather station on the harbour heads) - - Treaty claims tribunal building - Asmodeus - - monument somwhere in canterbury to our only person to get Victoria cross and bar in WW1 - Laurence - - Pick an anchient, rumoured haunted Maori burial ground - Saminga. - - Kronos - - - old one for lilith - wherever the aggreement to give Women the vote was decided (we were first nation to give universal sufferage) - - old & faded - Jean - Reefton : one of the first municipal electricity distribution projects in the world - now a major league hole. - - DP of Drugs (can't remember his name) a big dope patch somewhere in northland (50% of population generally stoned) Just some strangeness. Alan. - -- * Hi! I'm a replicating .sig virus! Join the fun and copy me into yours! :) - ------------------- - - Cathedral Square in Christchurch - Eli; lots of wacky creative people there - - Christchurch itself - Christchurch is called the "Garden City", hence Novalis; there's a big flower festival there every year - - another sacred Maori site - Malphas, since the Maori used to fight among themselves so much - - sunken Rainbow Warrior - after the famous Greenpeace boat was sunk by the French, it was towed north to a bay I can't remember and sunk in about 25 meters of water. Now it's covered with anemones and other sea life and is a beautiful place to scuba dive. - - One Tree Hill - originally the sight of a Maori fort, then a tree was planted there and a monument erected; recently a Maori tried to chop down the tree so it was almost "None Tree Hill"; I have no idea who this should belong to but it seems like some Prince is a good bet - - the original bungy bridge - Janus, because it's wild and crazy? or Kobal, because of its possibly fatal consequences? djd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:20:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> symphony question I've looked at it slightly differently. I seem to think hits are pretty potent, so I haven't given grenades 4 of them. Sure, a grenade does significant damage, but I'd render a grenade destroyed with just a couple of hits of damage. (The hard outer casing just makes them armored, not stronger.) Rig a car to explode, and that's easily more than 4 points of damage the car is taking. What about a warhead? Let's say a missile detonates in atmosphere. Since it has more than 4 hit points, I'd make it cause disturbance if it was a celestial act that caused it to detonate. This is also convenient for those groups who like big guns and big explosives. A little C4 or grenades won't cause *celestial* disturbances, but that little rocket launcher toy might draw attention from more than mundanes, regardless of whether it manages to damage another target or not. As for the sandwich, again it'd have to be big enough to be considered having 4 points. Also, you'd have to eat very rapidly... Doing a point of damage each round doesn't cause disturbance, it's the "all in one shot" that bounces the symphony around. (yes, it *is* more tactically sound to slowly torture someone than to just bloody him up.) - Jayson - ---John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > The rough canon we came up with is something like > the above: if something is _reasonably_ designed to be > broken into smaller parts in order to be used (eating a > sandwich, exploding a grenade, burning wood for fuel) > then it causes no disturbance. However, cutting a tree > (which is not _designed_ to be in that state) to make firewood > _would_ cause disturbance. So burning the prepared firewood > would be quiet, burning down the forest would NOT be! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:44:43 -0500 From: Perestroika Subject: Re: IN> symphony question Jayson Howell wrote: > the car is taking. What about a warhead? Let's say a missile > detonates in atmosphere. Since it has more than 4 hit points, I'd This line caught my eye. Does the Symphony extend past Earth's atmosphere? If an angel were to go up into space for some reason, would her actions there disturb the Symphony, or is it solely an Earth-based phenomenon? In Nomine: Mars... hm. - -Chris Mercurian of Jean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:05:00 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> symphony question Perestroika wrote: > This line caught my eye. Does the Symphony extend past Earth's > atmosphere? If an angel were to go up into space for some reason, > would her actions there disturb the Symphony, or is it solely an > Earth-based phenomenon? Various side-comments in published IN books make it clear the Symphony is universal -- is the universe, in fact. For instance, the Sun is a very powerful and permanent Tether for Gabriel, and Jupiter's Great Red Spot is hinted as a Tether for Janus. > In Nomine: Mars... hm. If you are interested in Angels in Space, try "Out of the Silent Planet" and "Perelandra" by C. S. Lewis, and set on Mars and Venus respectively. (They were written in the '30s or '40s, so the astronomy is very dated, but they are still great stories.) You get to see humans, angels, and aliens interacting with one another. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:21:36 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> symphony question Disturbance happens in the corporeal realm, independent of physical limitations. If walls don't stop a disturbance, the absence of walls certainly won't affect it. Summoning an Archangel on the moon is no different from doing so in New York, except that there aren't as many people on the moon to *notice* the disturbance. In space, they may not be able to hear you scream, but the Symphony still reverberates with the echoes of outside interference. - Jayson - ---Perestroika wrote: > > Jayson Howell wrote: > > > the car is taking. What about a warhead? Let's say a missile > > detonates in atmosphere. Since it has more than 4 hit points, I'd > > This line caught my eye. Does the Symphony extend past Earth's > atmosphere? If an angel were to go up into space for some reason, would > her actions there disturb the Symphony, or is it solely an Earth-based > phenomenon? > > In Nomine: Mars... hm. > > -Chris > Mercurian of Jean > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:30:44 -0600 From: Brent Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #995 >As i was going to st. Ives >I met a beast with seven heads >the seven heads had seven horns >the seven horns had seven diadems >the seven diadems had blasphemous names >names diadems horns heads >how many were going to st ives Why, none of course- *you* were going to St. Ives, they were coming the other way. - -Brent, who has been on/off lurking since Digest #7 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 98 14:32 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously > Kyriotates are purposeless creatures. The Seraphim hold the truth. The >Cherubim protect. Etc. Etc. The Kyrios, though they have a cool resonance, and >a cool weakness.(the lack of a vessel) have no function in heavenly society. I hold the notion that Kyrios exist partly to weave the Symphony together -- they have multiple viewpoints, and their multi-location capability makes them useful to coordinate groups of angels. > The Kyrio, like a child, doesn't know how to share. "Get out of that body! >It's mine!" The Shedite has learned to cooperate, and work with others. Actually, I see it the other way around -- Shedim are singular because if they had multiple streams of consciousness, they'd fragment into separate individuals (due to the demonic core of self). I.e., Shedim can no longer share (multiple minds). However, this would suggest that a falling Kyrio might fragment into multiple Shedim, which doesn't happen in canon. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 98 14:40 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> symphony question >Various side-comments in published IN books make it clear the >Symphony is universal -- is the universe, in fact. For instance, >the Sun is a very powerful and permanent Tether for Gabriel, and >Jupiter's Great Red Spot is hinted as a Tether for Janus. And the Io flux tube at Jupiter is a Tether to Jean (unless that got cut from the Tether book). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 98 14:45 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> symphony question > The rough canon we came up with is something like >the above: if something is _reasonably_ designed to be >broken into smaller parts in order to be used (eating a >sandwich, exploding a grenade, burning wood for fuel) >then it causes no disturbance. However, cutting a tree >(which is not _designed_ to be in that state) to make firewood >_would_ cause disturbance. So burning the prepared firewood >would be quiet, burning down the forest would NOT be! One way to look at this is as an extension of Roles to natural corporeal things -- if an object stays within its role in the Symphony, it doesn't cause disturbance. So firing a gun doesn't make disturbance, but the bullet *hitting* something does (if the shooter is a celestial). The gun and cartridge are just operating within their Role, the target of the bullet is not. When you wrench something out of one Role (say, "plate glass window") and into another (say, "broken glass on sidewalk"), disturbance happens. (Of course, this isn't entirely consistent with canon, but I happen to like it....) Basically, I think it boils down to "natural" and "unnatural" states of the Symphony, and the distance between them. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:14:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> symphony question At 2:40 PM -0500 10/28/98, Walter Milliken wrote: >>Various side-comments in published IN books make it clear the >>Symphony is universal -- is the universe, in fact. For instance, >>the Sun is a very powerful and permanent Tether for Gabriel, and >>Jupiter's Great Red Spot is hinted as a Tether for Janus. > >And the Io flux tube at Jupiter is a Tether to Jean (unless that got >cut from the Tether book). It was still there last time I looked... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:10:15 +0000 From: Peter Witney Subject: Re: IN> a little revelations humor At 01:59 AM 10/28/98 -0500, Ben wrote: >As i was going to st. Ives >I met a beast with seven heads >the seven heads had seven horns >the seven horns had seven diadems >the seven diadems had blasphemous names >names diadems horns heads >how many were going to st ives > nobody after this meeting, I suspect Peter Witney peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk To share with each other / Virtues ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:14:18 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> symphony question On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jayson Howell wrote: > Disturbance happens in the corporeal realm, independent of physical > limitations. If walls don't stop a disturbance, the absence of walls > certainly won't affect it. Summoning an Archangel on the moon is no > different from doing so in New York, except that there aren't as many > people on the moon to *notice* the disturbance. In space, they may > not be able to hear you scream, but the Symphony still reverberates > with the echoes of outside interference. Hmm... Well, consider that on Earth, there's alot of stuff going on in the Symphony; it's all supposed to be there, but it's still pretty noisy. Out in space, there's a lot less going on, or at least what's going on is on a much larger scale and alot more slowly. So it seems to me that a symphonic sisturbance out in space would be alot easier to detect. So, summoning and archangel on the moon would be just as loud, but with less background noise, pretty much any other celestial on the moon or in orbit is going to hear it; it's just that it's gonna be really unlikely that there'll be anyone around to hear. Some areas might be more noisy though; I'm sure any star is just cacophanous in the symphony, although it's not jarring because it belongs there. CLAVDIVS "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've A.K.A. Daniel Maberry got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." 98fa040@dvc.edu "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:09:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> symphony question Perhaps the GM might assign a bonus to detect such a disturbance, but the rules are independent of location. Disturbing the Symphony has been defined as independent of considerations such as matter or the lack thereof. As far as background noise, it's a reasonable arguement, but really that would fall into the domain of the specific GM. The same arguement could be used in any significantly distant wilderness. Kind of like noticing the hum of a car's engine on a normal day in the city versus noticing one when you're hiking on a glacier. - Jayson - ---Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> wrote: > Hmm... Well, consider that on Earth, there's alot of stuff going on in the > Symphony; it's all supposed to be there, but it's still pretty noisy. Out > in space, there's a lot less going on, or at least what's going on is on a > much larger scale and alot more slowly. So it seems to me that a symphonic > sisturbance out in space would be alot easier to detect. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:20:27 EST From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> a little revelations humor In a message dated 10/28/98 3:40:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk writes: << >As i was going to st. Ives >I met a beast with seven heads >the seven heads had seven horns >the seven horns had seven diadems >the seven diadems had blasphemous names >names diadems horns heads >how many were going to st ives > nobody after this meeting, I suspect >> One person of course. Though how you'd run across THAT going to St Ives is beyond me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:35:42 PST From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> A little revelations humour [Spoiler if I got it right] > As i was going to st. Ives > I met a beast with seven heads > the seven heads had seven horns > the seven horns had seven diadems > the seven diadems had blasphemous names > names diadems horns heads > how many were going to st ives One name, One head. Unless the beast was going to St Ives (or you have horns or diadems, or multiple names/heads). If the beast is going to St Ives 345 names (1 name on each of 343 diadems plus your name and the beast's name) 343 Diadems (7 diadems on each of 49 horns) 49 horns (7 horns on each of 7 heads) 8 heads (7 on the beast + yours) SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:36:46 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> symphony question On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jayson Howell wrote: > Perhaps the GM might assign a bonus to detect such a disturbance, but > the rules are independent of location. Disturbing the Symphony has > been defined as independent of considerations such as matter or the > lack thereof. As far as background noise, it's a reasonable > arguement, but really that would fall into the domain of the specific > GM. I doubt it'l be a factor in anythign I run anytime soon (unless I use the IN GURPS rule to cross over with Cyberpunk or Traveller; eep!), but I'd imagine it like increasing effective celestial forces by whatever depending remoteness; it's not louder, but it carries farther. > > The same arguement could be used in any significantly distant > wilderness. Kind of like noticing the hum of a car's engine on a > normal day in the city versus noticing one when you're hiking on a > glacier. I'd like to see you tell Jordi and Novalis to their faces that nothing's going on out in the wilderness... ;) Joking aside, the wilderness is still an incredibly active place. Remember, the symphony includes EVERYTHING, not just what humans are up to. A glacier, however, IS pretty remote; some of those places are so quiet and just the right winds that two people standing a mile apart can converse in a normal voice. However, if anything going on has it's own symphonic sounds, there's still going to be background noise from geological activity, the ice grinding its way through the rock, the ice melting in the sun and refreezing, the life and death of primitive microbes and lichen, even the movements of electrons around inside the atoms of the ice and rock and air. Even the light from the sun or moon and stars, whether streaming down and hitting the earth directly or scattering and refracting through cloud cover, is going to have its own theme in the local symphony. The point is, you'd have to go somewhere INCREDIBLY remote to lose all or nearly all background noise. Deep space is a possibility, although even solar wind would provide a constant soft tone. Easily quiet enough to her plenty over, I'd imagine. I might be tempted to provide small bonuses (like one or MAYBE two bonus forces for determining range) to hearing disturbance in truly barren areas; deserts don't count, but glaciers or tundra maybe. Any official thoughts on this? CLAVDIVS "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've A.K.A. Daniel Maberry got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." 98fa040@dvc.edu "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:15:28 EST From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: IN> Feast of Blades I was reading through feast of Blades and it made me curious... By the time Roberto Raposo enters the Home of Worship Church and Mission, he has had, to say the least, a very rough day. Never the less, I am curious as to why he chooses to take Rhonda Keefer hostage and terrorize her. What are his goals at this moment? I ask because usually a hostage is used a barganing chip, and at the time he chooses this course there's no one to bargain with. (She can be used as a bargaining ploy with angelic pc's but he won't be aware of them yet...) Or is he simply gone mad (drugged) beyond all logical concerns and thought processes? I'm trying to get a mental handle on what his goals are at this point in time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:08:11 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> symphony question At 11:44 AM -0500 10/28/98, Perestroika wrote: >Jayson Howell wrote: > >> the car is taking. What about a warhead? Let's say a missile >> detonates in atmosphere. Since it has more than 4 hit points, I'd > >This line caught my eye. Does the Symphony extend past Earth's >atmosphere? Yes. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:46:03 -0500 From: Perestroika Subject: Re: IN> St. Ives Brent wrote: > Why, none of course- *you* were going to St. Ives, they were coming the > other way. This is, of course, assuming three things: 1) The Beast has consumed the narrator. If not, there's at least one going to St. Ives. However: 2) Who's to say the Beast could move faster than the narrator? If the narrator was moving faster than the Beast and overtook it, then there'd be two going for St. Ives. If this is the case, though, the narrator really ought to book it and get his business in St. Ives done quickly, because 3) If the Beast is, in fact, coming from St. Ives, then St. Ives is most likely a pile of rubble and broken bodies. (Disturbance, anyone?) If the Beast is moving more slowly than the narrator towards St. Ives, then St. Ives is quite likely to be about to become a pile of rubble and broken bodies. > -Brent, who has been on/off lurking since Digest #7 - -Chris, Mercurian of Jean Two at the most. Sure, he had the wives and sacks and cats and kits, but who the hell wants to travel with all that stuff? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:24:55 +0000 From: Roland Ward Subject: IN> Tethers tethers tethers... Lots of tether stuff flying around I see. I guess what with an upcoming release on them. I don't know if it's too late but - seeing as there seems to a (growingly) diverse cutural group on this list - what about getting people from the list to each come up with one or two ideas each for inclusion (takes the strain of the IN guys... ) plus makes it all a bit more personal and international :-) One of the problems with tethers as far as I can see is the fact that there doesn't seem to be any alternative to either mundane sites or tethers - what about hallowed ground - holy/unholy land etc that has links (and play effects) but is not as strong as a tether - say somewhere that has important historical influence but is tied more to mortal acts than celestials? Or is that already covered in the rules Roland :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:08:37 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously Hello, everyone; after an absence of some months, I'm back with a real net account to pester all you guys even more than before... On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > > Kyriotates are purposeless creatures. The Seraphim hold the truth. The > >Cherubim protect. Etc. Etc. The Kyrios, though they have a cool resonance, and > >a cool weakness.(the lack of a vessel) have no function in heavenly society. > > I hold the notion that Kyrios exist partly to weave the Symphony > together -- they have multiple viewpoints, and their multi-location > capability makes them useful to coordinate groups of angels. Here's the way I see Kyriotates: Celestials typically have a hard time understanding humans; they're psychologies are completely different, and escribe in the APG. The Kyrios are intended to make up for that. Being inherently subjective beings with less of a personal identity than any other celestial, they can take on any identity (or even multiple identities) and be able to comprehend their role in the Symphony. By walking several miles and almost everybody's moccasins, they pick up an understanding of the corporeal world that's much clearer and diverse than any other angels'. And like any angel, their resonance isn't just philosophically important, it's smegging USEFUL. > > The Kyrio, like a child, doesn't know how to share. "Get out of that body! > >It's mine!" The Shedite has learned to cooperate, and work with others. > > Actually, I see it the other way around -- Shedim are singular because > if they had multiple streams of consciousness, they'd fragment into > separate individuals (due to the demonic core of self). I.e., Shedim > can no longer share (multiple minds). However, this would suggest that > a falling Kyrio might fragment into multiple Shedim, which doesn't > happen in canon. The Kyrio's multitasking ability depends in part on the selfless nature of angels. Look at the Kyrio-sepcific Discords in APG: they all make it harder for a Kyrio to multitask. This, IMHO, represents a growing selfishness as the angel becomes more dissonant. When he finally Falls, he loses that selflessness entirely, and can no longer supress his sense of self to control multiple hosts; like an demon, he DEPENDS on that sense of self. As for the corruption of their hosts, it's basically the reversal of nature that afflicts all falling angels. Each band of demon is in some way a direct opposite of it's corresponding choir; not only that, but it often accentuates what would cause them to Fall. Kyriotates get Dissonance by allowing their hosts to come to harm; thus Shedim NEED to screw over their hosts. CLAVDIVS "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've A.K.A. Daniel Maberry got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." 98fa040@dvc.edu "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:50:23 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) Belatedly jumping in on this thread. Peter Witney wrote: [snip] > There are two ways in which you could handle the points. In the first > place, you could just assign skill levels with roles (as > MarkDEddy suggested). This could lead to munchkin use of 'a role for > every situation'; if not careful, it could lead to a body-swapping > French farce [snip] And every time you switch a vessel, it makes noise. Do this too much and people will start paying attention, which may not be what you want ;-). FWIW, I'm happy with Celestials not having that many skills - they're normally more likely to succeed with the default than your average human with the skill, just because the underlying stats are much higher. For example, your average demon probably doesn't *need* to buy Fast-Talk - roll on Will-1 and unless the character is crippled in some way (or is a Lilim, in which case it doesn't need a high Will), the demon will make the roll easily. Sam - -- INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ More of my stuff: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:54:20 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 12:50:23PM +0000, Sam Kington wrote: > FWIW, I'm happy with Celestials not having that many skills As you may have gathered, I amn't. Most of the Celestials that I've made spend about 16-20 points on Vessels, Roles, Songs, Attunements and the like (which isn't very high), leaving a small pool for skills. I'm going to make an example, because I want to illustrate what I think a reasonable level of competence is. For a 200 year old 9-Force Habbalite of the War, with reasonable but by no means outstanding social skills. Strength, Intelligence, Will 7; Agility, Precision, Perception 5. Misc: Vessel/1, +2 sex appeal. Claws/4 Cel. Charm/4 Cor. Healing/3 Cel. Healing/3 Skills: (Combat) Fighting/4 Dodge/4 Acrobatics/3 (bought not for the Dodge bonus which is only sometimes applicable but because she has a good sense of balance) Alertness/3 (I don't see why one's chance of spotting an ambush should be the same as one's chance of spotting a Disturbance) Tactics/2 Pistol/2 Move Silently/2 Sword/1 (And at this point I've already exceeded 36 points.) (Social) Emote/3 (poker faces are always useful, and it helps for bawling out your troops) Detect Lies/2 Lying/2 Fast-Talk/2 Savoir-Faire/1 Seduction/1 (Other) Military History/2 Theology/1 Drive/1 Knowledge: Psychology/1 A total of 54 points, with not one Stat + Skill combo equal to 12, and with some as low as 6. Her Songs are all likely to be sung unsuccessfully, even with extra time spent on them, and may well be sung unsuccessfully multiple times in succession. (This has happened at least once in every scenario I've played.) This is after leading an active and dangerous life for 3 times the length of an average human lifespan. I happen to think that approximately that number of points is required to make such a character believable, especially given that demonic PCs are supposedly exceptionally competent and badass. There is nothing about this character I consider unreasonable, especially given that no skills or Songs are known above level 4. - - they're > normally more likely to succeed with the default than your average human > with the skill, just because the underlying stats are much higher. This doesn't mean they're likely to make the roll on default, either. For > example, your average demon probably doesn't *need* to buy Fast-Talk - > roll on Will-1 and unless the character is crippled in some way (or is a > Lilim, in which case it doesn't need a high Will), the demon will make > the roll easily. > Well, it depends what Will your average demon has. My average starting demon has a Will of 7 or 8, which leaves the demon with a good chance of failure. And some of my demons are Fallen, and have higher Perception than Will. The odds on my 5-Will Calabite making a Fast-Talk roll on default are slim. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "From your first day in camp everyone will try to deceive and plunder you ... in camp no one ever does anything for nothing, no one does anything out of the generosity of his heart. You have to pay for everything. If someone proposes something that is unselfish, disinterested, you can be sure it's a dirty trick, a provocation." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #996 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.