From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Oct 29 23:39:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24734 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:39:47 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id XAA20130 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:23:51 -0600 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:23:51 -0600 Message-Id: <199810300523.XAA20130@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #997 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, October 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 997 In this digest: Re: IN> Tethers tethers tethers... IN> Symphony Physics (Re: symphony question) Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question RE: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire RE: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire IN> Kyriotates-careless children? Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> symphony question IN> Tethers Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire IN> PBEM gaming Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire Re: IN> Kyriotates-careless children? Re: IN> Tethers IN> In Nomine Question IN> Re: IN- symphony question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:28:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Tethers tethers tethers... At 11:24 AM +0000 10/29/98, Roland Ward wrote: >Lots of tether stuff flying around I see. I guess what with an upcoming >release on them. >I don't know if it's too late [...] Considering that the book is in production now.... >One of the problems with tethers as far as I can see is the fact that >there doesn't seem to be any alternative to either mundane sites or >tethers - what about hallowed ground - holy/unholy land etc that has >links (and play effects) but is not as strong as a tether - say >somewhere that has important historical influence but is tied more to >mortal acts than celestials? Or is that already covered in the rules *All* Tethers arose as a result of in-Symphony actions or phenomena. The actions of humans are what created the majority of modern Tethers. (Or, in the case of Jordi, animals...) Celestials cannot create Tethers, only try to manuver (in non-supernatural ways) humans into patterns that are likely to spark a link between the celestial and corporeal realms. And there are certainly areas which are not Tethers which a celestial might consider to be more "special" than main street -- but while those places might be *potential* Tethers, there aren't any game mechanics for that sort of thing. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:15:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: IN> Symphony Physics (Re: symphony question) Wow, this seems to have generated a lot of discussion. What are the boundaries of disturbances within the Symphony? The corporeal realm. It's an entire dimensional occurance. Matter, gravity, electromagnetic fields, none of them affect disturbances, or anything else celestial. Everywhere within this universe, the Symphony resounds. (Ok, other dimensions, such as the Marches, Heaven, Hell, Limbo, etc. aren't affected. It happens.) This game is at least partially dealing with dimensional travel. Within the dimension we call "the corporeal", the Symphony permeates everything (or lack of anything...) Incidentally, I like to use the Symphony as a plausible justification of Bell's Theorem. It's a good arguement for reality over Einsteinian causality. For those unfamiliar with Bell's Theorem, I refer you to the website of a friend of mine: http://www.reed.edu/~esnyder/bell.html I'm postulating that photons have a fraction of a celestial force. Measuring a photon immediately causes a minor ripple in the Symphony (-10000 to sense this, unless you're the paired photon) which the other photon uses to adjust it's alignment. It should be noted that because Symphonic disturbance is not electromagnetic in origin, it is *not* limited to speed of light travel. Symphonic Disturbance IS a faster than light signal. Granted you can't really turn that to your advantage. Even a celestial with a 12 perception would be hard pressed to detect a disturbance at significant ranges. Well... I'd have to do the math, but I suspect an angel on Mars could have detected massive destruction such as Nagasaki or Hiroshima instantly instead of waiting the few minutes it would take for electromagnetic energy to get there, but since those were both mortal events not caused by celestial intervention, it's never been put to the test. - Jayson - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >This line caught my eye. Does the Symphony extend past Earth's > >atmosphere? > > Yes. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:43:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> symphony question - ---Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> wrote: > I'd > imagine it like increasing effective celestial forces by whatever > depending remoteness; it's not louder, but it carries farther. Actually, no. Symphonic disturbance is independent of intervening physical structures. Disturbance travels equally well through 1000 meters of lead, 1000 meters of air, or 1000 meters of space. The arguement could be made that in an isolated environment, the perceiving individual is more inclined to notice a disturbance, but the disturbance itself is not amplified, muted, or altered in range in any regard. Disturbances happen across the corporeal realm independent of electromagnetic or gravitic fields. (Which pretty much takes care of ANYTHING we know of in our universe.) > I'd like to see you tell Jordi and Novalis to their faces that nothing's > going on out in the wilderness... ;) Joking aside, the wilderness is still > an incredibly active place. Remember, the symphony includes EVERYTHING, > not just what humans are up to. Indeed, the Wilderness is teeming with essence and the Symphony in motion, it is NOT as filled with Symphonic *disturbance* though, as this is only caused by celestial intervention. Certainly there is some, but compared to the celestial actions in populous areas, this is greatly reduced. A glacier, however, IS pretty remote; some > of those places are so quiet and just the right winds that two people > standing a mile apart can converse in a normal voice. However, if anything > going on has it's own symphonic sounds, there's still going to be > background noise from geological activity, the ice grinding its way > through the rock, the ice melting in the sun and refreezing, the life and > death of primitive microbes and lichen, even the movements of electrons > around inside the atoms of the ice and rock and air. Even the light from > the sun or moon and stars, whether streaming down and hitting the earth > directly or scattering and refracting through cloud cover, is going to > have its own theme in the local symphony. And not a single one of those will make even the slightest twinge of Symphonic disturbance. (Well, unless a celestial's involved, and even then only the damage to the rock from the ice would cause enough for even a 1 point disturbance, and it would have to happen fairly quickly.) The Tethers book points out that tethers are formed *because* of their active role in the Symphony. Not disturbance, but the focus of large quantities of essence. This essence flow (unlike essence expenditure) does NOT create even the slightest hint of disturbance. A celestial could conceivable be 20 feet from an abandoned tether of unimaginable power and never even notice. We can therefore assume that the lesser concentrations of the Symphony in action will likewise cause no significant noise. > I might be tempted to provide small bonuses (like one or MAYBE two bonus > forces for determining range) to hearing disturbance in truly barren > areas; deserts don't count, but glaciers or tundra maybe. Any official > thoughts on this? Here's an unofficial thought: Background noise (or lack thereof) should not affect a disturbance's range in any way shape or form, or the *distance* at which the disturbance can be perceived. It *could* be justification for giving a celestial a bonus to perceive the disturbance since there is less of a cacophany to single out one sound against. I'd say deserts, forests, all sorts of thing count. Anywhere that the Symphony is allowed to play unchequed is by definition not making any noise at all. Isolation should be based on the lack of background celestial interference, not the presence of Symphonic energies. - Jayson _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:12:40 -0500 From: Setzer Gabbiani Subject: Re: IN> symphony question > >> >a glacier, however, IS pretty remote; some >of those places are so quiet and just the right winds that two people >standing a mile apart can converse in a normal voice. However, if anything >going on has it's own symphonic sounds, there's still going to be >background noise from geological activity, the ice grinding its way >through the rock, the ice melting in the sun and refreezing, the life and >death of primitive microbes and lichen, even the movements of electrons this raises yet another question. if an angel gives somebody some antibiotics, assuming no role as a doctor, they may be helping the person but they are killing a bunch of bacteria does this cause noise? Ben, Bright Lilim of LARPs serving blandine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:51:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> symphony question At 11:12 AM -0500 10/29/98, Setzer Gabbiani wrote: >this raises yet another question. if an angel gives somebody some >antibiotics, assuming no role as a doctor, they may be helping the person >but they are killing a bunch of bacteria does this cause noise? I doubt bacteria have 4 Body... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:47:40 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> symphony question We're talking about some pretty dang impressive bacteria here! What kind of incredible disease are you thinking that actually has 4 hits? And what miracle breakthrough technology is allowing you to kill that much in such a short time period? - Jayson - ---Setzer Gabbiani wrote: > this raises yet another question. if an angel gives somebody some > antibiotics, assuming no role as a doctor, they may be helping the person > but they are killing a bunch of bacteria does this cause noise? > > Ben, Bright Lilim of LARPs serving blandine > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:49:39 -0500 From: "Matthew Stein" Subject: RE: IN> symphony question >this raises yet another question. if an angel gives somebody some >antibiotics, assuming no role as a doctor, they may be helping the person >but they are killing a bunch of bacteria does this cause noise? I wouldn't think so (then again, I don't think eating a sandwich could cause disturbances, either). Here's why: disturbances, as far I can tell, only occur when a celestial does something whacked that changes the Symphony, right, and isn't covered by a roll? (Which is why, by the way, that I think if there's a celestial in a roll as a police officer, and he's forced to shoot a felon (and kills the guy, by mistake) then it wouldn't send out disturbances across the Symphony, at least IMC.) So the roll acts as mask, right. Now, given that the majority of society knows what antibiotics do (besides, I've been sick and had non-doctor friends tell me that I needed antibiotics), and the person that the celestial gives the antibiotics to (assuming that the celestial is really giving them antibiotics as opposed to some demonic and angelic version thereof) knows what they do, I wouldn't think so. Then again, I don't think that eating a big sandwich fast - even from a Demon of Gluttony - would cause a disturbance. _______________________________Matt._______________________________ [Angel of Weird Ideas, servant of Eli, kind of kicking it for now.] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:51:33 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> symphony question > >this raises yet another question. if an angel gives somebody some > >antibiotics, assuming no role as a doctor, they may be helping the person > >but they are killing a bunch of bacteria does this cause noise? > > I doubt bacteria have 4 Body... Right. This is a gradiant / sanity thing. The amount of disturbance is caused by the strength of body of the creature killed. So when a Celestial brushes his teeth, say, and kills a million germs using Listerine, he might indeed make a disturbance - of say one nanomater / microbe. Maybe he kills enough germs to make a disturbance that is so strong that it can be heard approx. 1 cm from his mouth - which isn't exactly going to raise the eyebrows of an enemy Superior. Or if you give someone a pill, maybe it makes a disturbance, but it's never heard outside their liver, which is where the microbes which are killed bit the big one. At some point, some GM sanity has to come into play and say, "This is negligable, it doesn't matter, don't worry about it." - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:13:49 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) Kevin Walsh wrote: > > [I wrote] > > FWIW, I'm happy with Celestials not having that many skills > > As you may have gathered, I amn't. Most of the Celestials that I've made > spend about 16-20 points on Vessels, Roles, Songs, Attunements and the > like (which isn't very high), leaving a small pool for skills. I'm going > to make an example, because I want to illustrate what I think a > reasonable level of competence is. > > For a 200 year old 9-Force Habbalite of the War [snip long list of skills] > A total of 54 points, with not one Stat + Skill combo equal to 12 [snip] Which is fair enough for an experienced Celestial who has been on Earth for most of that time. A "green" Celestial would probably have fewer skills (and I'd make it easy for them to pick them up.) > > For > > example, your average demon probably doesn't *need* to buy Fast-Talk - > > roll on Will-1 and unless the character is crippled in some way (or is > > a Lilim, in which case it doesn't need a high Will), the demon will > > make the roll easily. > > > Well, it depends what Will your average demon has. My average starting > demon has a Will of 7 or 8, which leaves the demon with a good chance of > failure. And some of my demons are Fallen, and have higher Perception > than Will. The odds on my 5-Will Calabite making a Fast-Talk roll on > default are slim. Hmmm - different styles of playgroup. Most of my demonic players have wills around 10-12, with 8 being the lowest. Sam - -- INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ More of my stuff: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:15:08 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> symphony question Somewhere in "A Bright Dream," the angel explains disturbance very briefly to the human viewpoint character and remarks that she is causing *some* disturbance just by having air molecules bounce off her vessel, but that this amount is unnoticably small. So the concept of ignorable, microscopic disturbance is definitely canonical. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:39:49 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 05:13:49PM +0000, Sam Kington wrote: > > For a 200 year old 9-Force Habbalite of the War > [snip long list of skills] > > A total of 54 points, with not one Stat + Skill combo equal to 12 > [snip] > > Which is fair enough for an experienced Celestial who has been on Earth > for most of that time. A "green" Celestial would probably have fewer > skills (and I'd make it easy for them to pick them up.) > Actually, a somewhat experienced Celestial who spent most of her life in Hell. Hell is rather less safe than Earth, no matter how dangerous the assignments given. (Within limits, obviously.) But that's somewhat beside the point. It is nowhere stated in the main rulebook that characters should be just down from Heaven/Hell. In fact, the amount of points the Bright Dream/Dark Dream characters in the back have implies the opposite. Until you realise that the skill levels they're given don't match the level of ability they have in the stories... However, a large number of interesting character concepts may well depend on having a few hundred, or indeed a few thousand years under the belt. And while there are limits to memory, I don't think 35 skill levels is unreasonable for any character who isn't an Ethereal Remnant and has been around long enough to learn them, and the other Resources, IIRC, don't take any memory space. (Songs have been described before on this list as connections to the Symphony. And the Old Guy certainly had vast numbers of them at level 6, even though he had lost a lot of Forces.) And I can't visualise someone who can add Forces by experience without developing skills based on those Forces, or who has few skills, but is still competent enough to impress their Superior sufficiently to be awarded Forces. > > Well, it depends what Will your average demon has. My average starting > > demon has a Will of 7 or 8, which leaves the demon with a good chance of > > failure. And some of my demons are Fallen, and have higher Perception > > than Will. The odds on my 5-Will Calabite making a Fast-Talk roll on > > default are slim. > > Hmmm - different styles of playgroup. Most of my demonic players have > wills around 10-12, with 8 being the lowest. > It's more my own style, actually. I've never made a starting character with a Will higher than 10, or a Perception higher than 9. In any event, with an average stat of 16, default skills will be between 3 and 5. (Excluding such skills as Chemistry, which are reasonable not to be usable on default.) Default is rarely very useful, though it's better than nothing. I strongly suspect that the number of points humans get is also too low. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "From your first day in camp everyone will try to deceive and plunder you ... in camp no one ever does anything for nothing, no one does anything out of the generosity of his heart. You have to pay for everything. If someone proposes something that is unselfish, disinterested, you can be sure it's a dirty trick, a provocation." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:46:00 -0500 From: John J Maurer Subject: Re: IN> symphony question At 11:51 AM 10/29/98 -0500, Emily Dresner wrote: > >Right. This is a gradiant / sanity thing. The amount of disturbance is >caused by the strength of body of the creature killed. So when a >Celestial brushes his teeth, say, and kills a million germs using >Listerine, he might indeed make a disturbance - of say one nanomater / >microbe. Maybe he kills enough germs to make a disturbance that is so >strong that it can be heard approx. 1 cm from his mouth - which isn't >exactly going to raise the eyebrows of an enemy Superior. Or if you give >someone a pill, maybe it makes a disturbance, but it's never heard outside >their liver, which is where the microbes which are killed bit the big one. This is exactly the way I run things. An Angel just BEING in the Corporal Realm causes a very small disturbance. Unless they are doing something special, only superiors or something odd can hear them. Doing one hit of damage is going to cause slightly more noise, but still outside the range of hearing. A celestial is only sufficiently sensitive to hear noises at 4 hits or more. Speaks Question: Why don't cannibals eat clowns? Answer: They taste funny. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:45:43 +0200 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire At 23:30 26/10/98 , you wrote: >That was lovely ;) I'm glad you liked it. The story is actually a projection of what may happen if our group (including Iochanan, a Malakite of Fire with a _very_ convulted history , John, a Cherub of War, Chuck, a Seraph of Stone, and the late, lamented Mariel, a Mercurian of Novalis) actually manage to survive the plots of Kronos, Baal, and a mysterious person, claiming to be the Count de Saint Germain. Our GM has a penchant for epic campaigns - last time we had to stop a second deluge... Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:48:11 +0200 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: RE: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire At 03:19 27/10/98 , you wrote: >Very, very touching and cool. I especially like the part where the >Malakite talks of Falling.... Thanks. Falling is a concern for my Malakite, since in his long history he actually did things which might cause other angels to Fall. Let's say Dominic takes a personal interest in him... Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:50:59 +0200 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> symphony question At 18:44 28/10/98 , you wrote: >This line caught my eye. Does the Symphony extend past Earth's >atmosphere? If an angel were to go up into space for some reason, would >her actions there disturb the Symphony, or is it solely an Earth-based >phenomenon? In space, no one can hear your dissonance :-) I'd say the Symphony reacts as usual, but that the chance of a disturbance being heard to be negligable. Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:56:20 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> symphony question Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Somewhere in "A Bright Dream," the angel explains disturbance > very briefly to the human viewpoint character and remarks > that she is causing *some* disturbance just by having air molecules > bounce off her vessel, but that this amount is unnoticably small. > So the concept of ignorable, microscopic disturbance is definitely > canonical. Please don't mention fiction and canon in the same breath... it upsets my gentle and placid soul. While we _try_ to work with fiction so that it is also good canon, some of the stories were made before canon was thought fully out. We _may_ errata stories the same we do anything else; we just try to avoid it if at all possible. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:58:28 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Sam Kington wrote: > Which is fair enough for an experienced Celestial who has been on Earth > for most of that time. A "green" Celestial would probably have fewer > skills (and I'd make it easy for them to pick them up.) Demonic PCs begin play as nine-Force demons, and therefore probably have been on Earth a while and are almost certainly experienced Celestials. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:10:58 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> symphony question John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Please don't mention fiction and canon in the same > breath... it upsets my gentle and placid soul. While we > _try_ to work with fiction so that it is also good canon, > some of the stories were made before canon was thought > fully out. We _may_ errata stories the same we do anything > else; we just try to avoid it if at all possible. But this is the story in the IN main book, so wouldn't it be canonical fiction? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:21:33 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire In a message dated 10/29/98 10:05:38 AM, ygurvitz@netvision.net.il writes: > I'm glad you liked it. The story is actually a projection of what may >happen if our group (including Iochanan, a Malakite of Fire with a _very_ >convoluted history , John, a Cherub of War, Chuck, a >Seraph of Stone, and the late, lamented Mariel, a Mercurian of Novalis) >actually manage to survive the plots of Kronos, Baal, and a mysterious >person, claiming to be the Count de Saint Germain. Our GM has a penchant >for epic campaigns -- last time we had to stop a second deluge... > > Yours, > Yossi Iochanan *and* John? That's sort of like Iago and James... Mark (Why not Juan, or Ivan, or Johann, or.....) }:} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:05:55 +0000 From: Peter Witney Subject: IN> Kyriotates-careless children? Continuing Thread: >Here's the way I see Kyriotates: Celestials typically have a hard time >understanding humans; These arguments over Kyriotates possessing humans really seem to rely on the idea that humans are the be-all end-all of celestial work on earth. I think Jordi especially, but almost all the other Archangels would disagree with that. They principally use human hosts, doing so to accomplish their jobs. > By >walking several miles and almost everybody's moccasins, they pick up an >understanding of the corporeal world that's much clearer and diverse than >any other angels'. I agree with this. The Kyrios are, as have been mentioned, excellent at gaining a broad subjective view of the symphony, just as Elohim try for the objective view. Just because they use human hosts as vessels doesn't mean that they are unable to share or that they are impeding the humans they make use of. They get dissonance for harming their hosts, but I suspect that many Kyriotates deliberately help their hosts (either as over response to avoid dissonance or as part of a 'plan'). >> > The Kyrio, like a child, doesn't know how to share. "Get out of that body! Humans are given rolls to avoid Kyriotate possession because it's instinctual, not because they consciously want to bar an angel from taking over. Many humans would be honoured to know an angel wanted to work through them. By not keeping the human's consciousness in the vessel, however, the Kyriotate is protecting the host. It prevents the host witnessing literally diabolical things, it prevents feelings of split-personality and lack of control. In return for the use of his body, the human gets several extra days in (presumably) Blandine's side of the Marches- quite a nice holiday, I think. Pete peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk Shedim of Kobal, in service to the Demon of Critics ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:40:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> symphony question No. In space, people can hear your dissonance just the same. "Hearing" a disturbance is a function of perceiving the symphony, NOT acoustic vibration. Therefore the lack of a medium (such as air) won't make a difference. Disturbance is a celestial effect in the corporeal realm. Like other celestial effects, it is unhindered by the material world (or lack thereof.) - Jayson - ---Yossi Gurvitz wrote: > > At 18:44 28/10/98 , you wrote: > >This line caught my eye. Does the Symphony extend past Earth's > >atmosphere? If an angel were to go up into space for some reason, would > >her actions there disturb the Symphony, or is it solely an Earth- > In space, no one can hear your dissonance :-) I'd say the Symphony > reacts as usual, but that the chance of a disturbance being heard to be > negligable.based > >phenomenon? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:05:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> symphony question At 1:10 PM -0500 10/29/98, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > >> Please don't mention fiction and canon in the same >> breath... it upsets my gentle and placid soul. While we >> _try_ to work with fiction so that it is also good canon, >> some of the stories were made before canon was thought >> fully out. We _may_ errata stories the same we do anything >> else; we just try to avoid it if at all possible. > >But this is the story in the IN main book, so wouldn't it be >canonical fiction? It was written, I believe, at a time when the mechanics were slightly different. (I've recently found an earlier draft. Essence as character points! Very strange...) So don't go overboard on something that's *only* in a vignette. (Though the concept that there is micro- disturbance is actually one I *like*. But nobody's going to be hearing it anytime soon, so it doesn't matter.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:39:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> symphony question It's also written from the perspective of the characters, not the universe. Nowhere is it written that Nicole isn't just a bit confused... (and serving Gabriel, who wouldn't be?) Anyway, she could be speaking metaphoricly, just trying to impress a point. When I say "a butterfly flapping its wings can cause a typhoon in the Phillipines", I do not expect people to use this to justify physics debates on the butterfly/typhoon phenomenon, I just expect them to get it. Reading the Bright Dream story again, I very much get the impression the point of the story is to explain that "angels don't belong, and here's why I need you to kill him" rather than "allow me to give you a primer on celestial physics." - Jayson - ---Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > Please don't mention fiction and canon in the same > > breath... it upsets my gentle and placid soul. While we > > _try_ to work with fiction so that it is also good canon, > > some of the stories were made before canon was thought > > fully out. We _may_ errata stories the same we do anything > > else; we just try to avoid it if at all possible. > > But this is the story in the IN main book, so wouldn't it be > canonical fiction? > > Earl > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 98 14:09 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> symphony question [JohnK, answering Earl:] >> Somewhere in "A Bright Dream," the angel explains disturbance >> very briefly to the human viewpoint character and remarks >> that she is causing *some* disturbance just by having air molecules >> bounce off her vessel, but that this amount is unnoticably small. >> So the concept of ignorable, microscopic disturbance is definitely >> canonical. > > Please don't mention fiction and canon in the same >breath... it upsets my gentle and placid soul. While we >_try_ to work with fiction so that it is also good canon, >some of the stories were made before canon was thought >fully out. We _may_ errata stories the same we do anything >else; we just try to avoid it if at all possible. Which isn't to say that this particular bit will get errata'ed. I'd say there's a fair likelihood it will get solidified at some point. And then there are the cases where rules material has been written to *match* existing vignettes.... (Fortunately not *too* many of them.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:08:45 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> symphony question On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 10:39:48AM -0800, Jayson Howell wrote: > them to get it. Reading the Bright Dream story again, I very much get > the impression the point of the story is to explain that "angels don't > belong, and here's why I need you to kill him" rather than "allow me > to give you a primer on celestial physics." > Another important point is that she was lying. It wasn't to avoid disturbance she wanted your man to kill him, but to avoid dissonance. The disturbance of going Celestial and back was surely more than the disturbance of killing her previous servant. - -- "From your first day in camp everyone will try to deceive and plunder you ... in camp no one ever does anything for nothing, no one does anything out of the generosity of his heart. You have to pay for everything. If someone proposes something that is unselfish, disinterested, you can be sure it's a dirty trick, a provocation." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:33:50 EST From: Gruzzle@aol.com Subject: IN> Tethers As far as tethers go, Jean should probably have a pretty signifigant one here in Tampa, Florida: the lightning capital of the world. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:39:18 +0200 From: Ijon Tichy Subject: Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire At 20:21 29/10/98 , MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 10/29/98 10:05:38 AM, ygurvitz@netvision.net.il writes: > >> I'm glad you liked it. The story is actually a projection of what may >>happen if our group (including Iochanan, a Malakite of Fire with a _very_ >>convoluted history , John, a Cherub of War, Chuck, a >>Seraph of Stone, and the late, lamented Mariel, a Mercurian of Novalis) >>actually manage to survive the plots of Kronos, Baal, and a mysterious >>person, claiming to be the Count de Saint Germain. Our GM has a penchant >>for epic campaigns -- last time we had to stop a second deluge... >> >Iochanan *and* John? That's sort of like Iago and James... Iochanan is the angel's real (i.e. celestial) name. His vessel is named Theodorus, or Theo, these days. They're actually the same name... As for the Cherub, John, his real (i.e. celestial) name is Johannes (that's 'nes' as in 'nescafe'), but, again, these days he's just known as John. - -- Ijon Tichy Sailing the 'net in the only e-mail: ijon@forum2.org Space Barrel known to man. Homepage: http://forum2.org/ijon MOO: VotSB, http://forum2.org:7000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:58:03 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire I *think* "Iochanan" and "Iohannes" are "Jonathan" and "John," similar but still distinct names. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:37:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: IN> PBEM gaming Here I am on two counts: Firstly, I'm starting one, if you want in, let me know, space is limited. If you want more info, I've got that too. Secondly, other than the Access Denied site (on which I've already posted this) are there any forums for making such a request other than the mailing list? - Jayson _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:43:29 +0200 From: Ijon Tichy Subject: Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire At 23:58 29/10/98 , Earl Wajenberg wrote: >I *think* "Iochanan" and "Iohannes" are "Jonathan" and "John," >similar but still distinct names. No. Jonathan is from the Hebrew Ionatan, literally "God's gift" or "God has given". John is primarily the English version of Iochanan the Baptist ("Ha-Matbil"). John can also, of course, mean Jonathan etc. Iohannes, and Johann (the 'j' pronounced as a 'y'), do mean the same name. They're similar and NOT distinct names. Johannes, Iohannes, and Johann are the Teutonic versions of the same name (i.e. Iochanan the Baptist). FWIW, Ijon - -- Ijon Tichy Sailing the 'net in the only e-mail: ijon@forum2.org Space Barrel known to man. Homepage: http://forum2.org/ijon MOO: VotSB, http://forum2.org:7000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:39:33 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates-careless children? I've had this thought for a while, but this thread made it come to the surface again. The Kyriotate had been hanging around this human for weeks now, listening in on his conversations as it flitted from host to host. It knew that he was important, but didn't know why. Maybe it was his compassion, perhaps it was his resolution to stand up and speak up for what was right. But the Kyriotate *knew*. With it's entire being, it knew that this was the most important day of this human's life, and that what he said this day would cement thousands of lives on the road to Destiny. The crowd was present, the cameras were rolling, and the Angel settled into the body of a recently finished singer to listen in, to feel the impact. But something was wrong. The passion was oddly muffled, and the human's over-careful words made the speech a mockery of what this human could potentially be. Without thinking, the angel spoke. The recordings picked it up. Ella FItzgerald's voice said "Tell 'em about the Dream, Martin!" And Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., looked down at his carefully prepared notes, folded them neatly, and after a short pause, looked out over the crowd and started, "I have a dream..." And in shock, a Kyriotate of Yves fled the scene. Mark Eddy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:08:06 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> Tethers Gruzzle@aol.com wrote: > As far as tethers go, Jean should probably have a pretty signifigant one here > in Tampa, Florida: the lightning capital of the world. Having lived in Tampa for 3 years, I've heard that one before, although I believe the center of lightning activity is closer to Orlando than Tampa. (I could be wrong; it wouldn't be the first time.) Also, I believe there is a corresponding spot on the other side of the globe (China somewhere, IIRC). Anyone have any more factual info on these things? - --Matthew D. "Demiurge" Schweitzer-Gandy "still looking for the face I had before the world was made" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:20:04 EST From: Unverified@aol.com Subject: IN> In Nomine Question The Third Level Distinction of Yves (Master of Divine Knowledge) grants an angel receiving the Distinction the resonance (and dissonance) of another Choir. What happens to the vessel of a non-Kyriotate who acquires the Kyriotate multiplicity resonance? Is it treated like a "standard" Kyriotate vessel, requiring some of the angel's forces all the time, or more like the stone vessels of David's Kyriotates (vanishing when not in the vessel)? unverified. maybe. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:21:21 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- symphony question >Setzer Gabbiani wrote: > >> i have a little question about the nature of the symphony that came up as i >> watched city of angels. Does and angel eating a sandwich cause disturbance >> to the symphony? They are causing damage to something in the corporeal >> realm. please give me some help on this > >I'd say that this falls in to category of, "Yes, but..." Yes, the celestial >causes a disturbance in the Symphony. But it's such a small one (most >sandwiches have very few hit points) that nobody will notice. > >Michael No one will notice? Not in MY campaign... heh heh heh... (Just watch NONE of them take any sandwich offering for the next few runs. :) - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Novalis and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #997 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.