From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Feb 23 21:56:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA30135 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:56:56 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA13985 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:30:10 -0600 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:30:10 -0600 Message-Id: <199802240330.VAA13985@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #640 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, February 23 1998 Volume 01 : Number 640 In this digest: IN> First part of FoB RE: IN> Interview with the Balseraph Re: IN> Re: Jean's Kyrios Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements Re: IN> Varying superior disturbance levels Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs (was Re: attempt inject understand) Re: IN> Outcast Michael Re: IN> Outcast Michael IN> Harcourt Finton Balseraph Re: IN> Belial Rite makes no sense Re: IN> RE: IN- Re: Jean's Kyrios Re: IN> Varying superior disturbance levels Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> Falling/Repenting and Words IN> Statistics for Superiors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:25:52 -0500 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: IN> First part of FoB Bad Dan, no cookie for you! Well, we got Feast of Blades up and running. We basically got through investigating the crash scene - I have it as being around midnight, the first day. Two of the players found out they live on Aselieu Street (spelling?), and can't find it on any map, though they can find it in actuality. There's always violin music playing from upstairs, too... The players did not trust the ArchDean's assertation that their Superiors said it was okay to give her the Dagger so she could destroy it. Good players. The Malak of Eli figured "what the heck", and the Cherub of Janus knew he couldn't contact Janus, but the Merc and the Ofanim sent e-mail to their superiors (Marc and Jean, respectively) who backed her up. So the next day they headed out to Richmond, where, coincendentally, is where a bunch of Servitors have gone missing in the last week. (It ends up that they were in a battle with demons, like usual, but some human Soldiers/cultists managed to upset both sides of the battle. Malphas had been helping 'em, just to keep things fragmented, but lost control of the situation when he found out that they were trying to play him, too, by setting up a cult of Athena, that was actually a front for a bunch of Cthulhu cultists (Cthulhu exists in my game). However, by creating the front, the Athena cultists (who the Cthulhu cultists were trying to strip of Essence to raise R'lyeh) actually managed to accidently get Athena's attention, and she doesn't want Cthulhu around, though she doesn't like angels or demons, either. The angels had attempted to escape to Charlottesville, but were in a running fight with the demons, and they all just "disappeared" - a couple are in Trauma, but most of 'em (including a Malakim of Janus) are just *gone*. Their Superiors see nothing but black when checking their hearts, so the PCs will have to find them soon. Of course, the double-agent soldiers (er, how many agented?) sold out *everybody* and right now Virginia is caught in a spasm of violence as soldiers keep blasting away at each other with bigger, and bigger, guns (how'd Vapula get in here, you may ask? You don't want to know) and more and more resources are thrown in from every side. It could conceivably end up as a Celestial version of Gettysburg, which is why the PCs are there - to keep it from happening as such. Kadris is going to *love* this when he realizes what's going on - if he survives FoB, the players will have a great ally.) Sorry. Back to the story. They scouted around the airport, with Roz (Cherub of Janus) Swiping in a pistol. They found out about the crash, and realized that the Huzzy must be a celestial, too ("That bitch!"). They cellphoned Twitch (Ofanim of Jean) who was outside, and he promptly tore off, using his cycle to get to the scene in no time. Christian (Merc of Marc) kept failing his resonance rolls, but followed them (with backup from Andrew, Malak of Eli) to their car. Andrew pulled their car around while Roz ran for her new bike (bought with cash through an exchange of Essence and cash with Christian and his "Head of a PIN" attunement and Andrew's ID through his role). Twitch arrived first, and started scouting around. Then Roz appeared, who went looking for Amanda and kept finding important victims. Christian and Andrew appeared, shortly after Huzzy, and also followed Kadris a bit before confronting him. By midnight they'd figured out most of what happened there, and were heading back. As they left the police cordone, Huzzy came up behind a random PC and asked them, "So, find anything interesting?" while grasping his shotgun lightly yet menacingly. Christian had spotted the station wagon, and went to check it out, just to find Tiny pointing a shotgun in his face. The random PC happened to be Roz. Damn Swipe attunement. Twitch went running for cover randomly, just to pull up a corporeal song of shields and dive at the other three Impies, blasting with his .45. Roz Swiped Huzzy's shotgun and started lashing him for mind hits with Numinous Corpus: Tongue/4 (damn, I hate that). Andrew calmly pulled a .357 and started blasting at Drool. Christian managed to first throw a corporeal song of harmony, distracting Tiny, then pulled the shotgun out of her hands and blasted her with it. When Huzzy realized he was losing against Roz he threw up a song of Thunder and stunned everyone but Roz and Andrew (d'oh! - Kadris was there by then, also blasting away at the demons). I wanted the demons to survive until later, at least, and since my players kept shooting down my plans (Huzzy was supposed to escape, but instead he was unconscious along with Drool, and Tiny had taken a pointblank shotgun blast before diving for cover), I had the cops arrive at that point. Roz helped Kadris to his Trans-Am while the rest scattered. The Impies and Huzzy were left there; I've got to figure out what kind of ethereal discord Huzzy got then have them escape from the cops, get more shotguns (they lost two to the players, dammit), and come back after them again. Dodge/10 is formidable, but with only 25 hit points each - the Impies get toasted, fast. Of course, Andrew found the burned-out tether to Michael in Richmond before going to the airport. That was supposed to be a cache of weapons for before the final big battle, as a kind of last resort ("We need guns! Big fucking guns!") but they haven't taken anything yet. Just a quick question though - if a vessel takes something like a point blank shotgun blast, or has its throat slashed, is that automatic death (as it would be for a human) or is just damage, since it's a vessel? Just curious.:) SeanMike - -- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:12:56 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: RE: IN> Interview with the Balseraph Perry wrote: > >Interview with the Balseraph. > by Leath Sheales... > > Very enjoyable. :) Is this a lie? :) Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:26:24 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Re: Jean's Kyrios Earl replying to Perry wrote: > > It seems to me that technology has been with humanity for a very long > > time. > > Yes, but *electrical* technology is pretty recent, and if Jean's > Word isn't essentially electrical, it needs a different translation > into English. Am I the only one who assumes that Archangels (and DPs) can change their servitor attunements to keep up with the times? Okay, probably not overnight, but I'm sure they can evolve. Jean's attunements thousands of years ago (if he was an Archangel) were probably very different than they are now, dealing with the primal forces of lightning. When Yves gave Jean the secrets of the Corporeal realm, he probably saw that his attunements needed updateing, and liek a good Elohite commenced to do it. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:20:21 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. > > I did - the In Nomine Sideways posts. There was very little response > > (in fact, one response) to them. > > I never responded because the post said "Part 1" and I was waiting > for the other parts to come out.... And I was waiting for more feedback before I went ahead and did the rest...duh... > > I decided I had better things to > > do than to spend long amounts of time crafting works that nobody > > really was interested in, and went on to other things. > > I'm interested; I was just under the impression that you ran out of > creative steam on that particular thread. Oh, no. Not by a long shot. It has been positively boiling at the back of my mind; Ethereal Gods and Fallen Angels, angelic politics and demonic kingdoms. And demonic Malakim, because it makes sense... > > If you want me to go into my current Archangel structure and the > > reasoning behind it, please ask. I'd love to. > > You're blatantly fishing here, but I'll indulge you anyway ;) .... Actually, only somewhat. The original poster hadn't made it clear whether he was truely interested in the structure, or felt he needed to explain his actions due to the lack of exposition. > Would you please go into your current Archangel structure and the > reasoning behind it? Well, the short of it goes like this: Alain, Kyriotate Archangel of Animals No real change from Jordi in the book, except for the name (which, evidently, was the original name in the IN playtest drafts, and got changed for some reason). He is the last of the original eight Archangels that God created. Eli, Mercurian Archangel of Creation The only Archangel who was not one of the original eight, Eli was originally a servator of the Archangel of Water. After his Superior (Oannes, Archangel of Water) was cast out of Heaven (see below), he was awarded to word of Creation, to replace him. When Raphael died in combat with Legion, Eli was elevated to Archangel status by Yahweh. Gabriel, Cherub Archangel of Stone Gabriel is much changed from the angel in the basic In Nomine book; he is closer in personality to David than to canon Gabriel. His word implies strength through community; he is the patron of Civilization, and one of the more powerful Archangels in Heaven. He is also third Archangel created by Yahweh, as part of the elemental four (Gabriel, Oannes, Janus, and Uriel). Janus, Ophanim Archangel of Wind Much the same as in the book, because I haven't gotten to thinking much about him. I don't like his name, but that can wait. The fifth Archangel created by God. Michael, Seraph Archangel of War The leader of Heavens armies, Michael was the first angel that Yahweh created (although rumors exist of more, who Yahweh disbanded for insolence or other problems). He is the Archangel of War, and he has commanded God's armies since the beginning; his dissonance, and several of his attunements, are switched with Laurence's (who is a servator of his). He is another of the most powerful AA's in Heaven. Uriel, Malakim Archangel of Fire Uriel is the second archangel created by Yahweh, as the vessel of his wrath. Originally of an previously unknown Choir, Uriel's resonance cracked almost instantly, and she was reborn a Malakim; "fallen", but still an angel in God's eyes. Personality wise, she is a syncretic mix of the canon Uriel, Gabriel, and Dominic; she was stripped of her status as the Judge of God after the Purification War. This lead to her semi-withdrawl from Heaven, and her slight insanity; she was, as far as she understood, following orders from Yahweh during the War. Yves, Elohim Archangel of Destiny Yves is much like the Yves in canon, save that he was next to last of the Archangels, and has no special connection to God or the Symphony ;-). Created along with Raphael, after the fall of Oannes, he embodies God's attempt to understand the new humanity that was emerging. Former Archangels: Raphael, Mercurian Archangel of Healing Other than his Choir and Word, unremarkable from the Raphael of canon. His death was around the time of Enoch 3; the angel in Tobit is one of his former servators (at that time, it was customary for an angel to identify itself by it's Superiors name, which got confused into the angel actually claiming to be Raphael). Oannes, Grigori Archangel of Water Oannes is an interesting soul. He is fourth Angel to be created by Yahweh, and his word of Water had, at the time, a heavy connotation of Creation. It was he who created the nam-shub of breaking, which totally removed the inborn language humans had evolved. This nam-shub was the cause of legends of the Garden of Eden and the Flood; Yahweh ordered Oannes to flood the Tigris and Euphrates, to destroy the nam-shub before it spread. Oannes' refusal to cause a flood got him and all the Grigori imprisoned in Hell, after which Yahweh flooded the two rivers anyway. Oannes, however, was freed by the ba'al shem Moloch, and released his nam-shub again in Babylon. If he still lives, it is not in Hell; he and the Grigori are in hiding, if they survive at all. Questions? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:39:01 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements At 10:13 AM -0600 2/22/98, S. Dickie wrote: >Howdy, > >I was reading the faq the other day and found out it is impossible for >mortals to have discord. This seems contrary to some of the Choir >attunements of Dominic, specifically those for Ofanim and Kyriotates. Both >of these refer to discord in humans. Errata... Delete the references to "in humans." Also, pick up the APG, which clarifies these. >Is this one for the errata or is this resolved in a later book? Both. >Who handles errata? Can I just mention it here or do I need to mention it >to sjg specifically? You can hand it to me. But check the errata files first... (They're linked to http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine , so you can check them for yourself.) For game purposes, *most* of the time you can treat human disadvantages like celestial Discord -- a crippled human can't move as quickly, or looks fat, etc. It's 3 points per level, and if you know GURPS, you can pretty well treat it as a GURPS disad. (Merciful maps pretty well onto "Cannot Kill," for instance.) When you make a distinction *celestially*, i.e., worrying about whether the disadvantage/Discord stains the soul, it's very much a GM call. Haagenti's little pigs can use the human psychological problem of Gluttony just as easily as the celestial version. Kyriotates of Dominic are only able to abuse a truly "soul-stained" (not necessarily "Discordant," but evil in the GM's ruling) host. Bad sight just won't cut it. Some demonic attunements can cause temporary Discord -- which is the soul-staining stuff. Taking too many Mind Hits will also damage the human enough to inflict that twisting of the soul that is manifest in Discord. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:02:57 -0500 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Varying superior disturbance levels >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:36:46 +0000 >From: Kevin Walsh >Subject: Re: IN> Varying superior disturbance levels > >On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 at 11:06:36PM -0500, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >> One of the things I'm thinking about including in my campaign >> is to have different superiors make different levels of disturbance >> when they manifest on Earth, so that a clever character can make >> an educated guess about who just showed up. >> >> Of course it's not perfect, but I want to give thinking players an >> edge. >> >I attempted a reply to this before, and my session crashed. Ah well... > >I've never understood how people have problems identifying which Superior >shows up. It's usually obvious from the context of the action. I can't >recall a single occasion when I failed to recognise when a Superior had >appeared (even without any disturbance being mentioned), and who it was. >As long as you know who the other players serve (most likely for angels, I >admit), you're usually all right. Knowing when you're likely to be in >trouble is also a help. I meant from across town, actually. Also given how obtuse my friends are likely to be (they give /me/ competition in that department!) I figure the PCs will need all the help I can give. :) >> >> Celestial Base Disturbance >> --------- ---------------- >> Michael 100 >> Lucifer 80 > >Do you have a particular reason why Michael is still more powerful than >Lucifer? I assume that given the amount of time Lucifer has had to catch >up on Michael, and given his more powerful Word, and, IMO, the fact that >Michael's Word feeds Lucifer's, I think that Lucifer is likely far >stronger. (You don't get a Michaelite intervention when you roll a 333, do >you?) Yes, I do. One of the metaphysical threads running through the backstory of my game is that the universe isn't dualistic: Lucifer isn't God's opposite number. He is the prince of the fallen angels, just as Michael is prince of the unfallen angels. (More on this in another post...) You don't get a Michaeline interventions because: a) he doesn't presume to take God's place, and b) he's too busy, anyway. The medieval Catholic church named Michael as the psychopomp, the guardian of the souls of the dead, and I decided that I would use that. Michael makes sure that people get where they want to go after they die -- he's the reason the devil has to tempt souls rather than just kidnapping them. Dominic's angels of Final Judgement act as a double check, as well. The angels don't want to screw up in their responsibilities. (It would make a great adventure to kidnap a soul from beneath Michael's nose, and smuggle it into Hell, wouldn't it?) Incidentally, there's a bit in Ellen Kushner's _Thomas the Rhymer_ where Thomas is given a choice by the Queen of Fairy about which of three roads to take. One is broad, neat, and well-kept; one starts off in a bramble patch and the path only gets harder; and the last is irrelevant to my point. :) The neat and easy road is the road to Hell and the hard and painful one is the way to Heaven. I thought that was a neat bit -- if a human PC dies IMC, I will definitely do something similar. >> o Powerful Superiors: >> Archangels: Yves, Gabriel, David, Janus >> Demon Princes: Kronos, Kobal, Baal, Asmodeus >> o Average Superiors: >> Archangels: Novalis, Blandine, Jordi, Dominic > >I'd note at this point that Novalis' and Jordi's Words are being hacked to >pieces at an incredible rate. The literal parts, at any rate. That's why they are as powerful as they are. Man was given dominion over the animals, and given the way he has abused his power, Jordi has been forced to take on a lot of power to succor the animals. >> Demon Princes: Andrealphus, Beleth, Belial, Saminga, Malphas, Vapula > >I tend to view Dark Humour as a subset of Nightmares, myself. IMC, Kobal was the demon who convinced Lucifer to continue the fight against God once the demons were cast into Hell -- he's the most powerful of the Demon Princes, stronger even than Kronos. (A better translation of his word IMC would be "the laughter of despair," if you want to know where I'm coming from.) >> o Weak Superiors: >> Archangels: Marc, Laurence, Eli, Jean > >Do you have a reason for making Jean weaker than both Vapula and all the >other elemental Superiors? I might note that Eli's Word, being Creation, >is generally agreed to be quite potent. Eli is a goof; he should definitely be a major archangel. Thanks for pointing this out, since this makes Yves's evil plot more evil. (See my next post.) Jean is a minor archangel because I like underdogs -- and in my game he has to contend directly against both Vapula /and/ Asmodeus. (I'll explain why if you're interested.) I don't want to use any Princes other than the main rulebook ones, not unless one of the PCs manages to usurp one of the thrones of Hell. Mammon IMC was a Habbalah who Voided himself a few centuries ago, and got chopped up and eaten by the other princes (in Haagenti's case, literally). >More generally, I always assumed that Superiors could cause as much or as >little disturbance when they manifest as they please, and moreover, that >they're only committing a fraction of their Forces to a Vessel when they >manifest. It's like the Horsemen in Good Omens, part of them moves around >and talks, the rest is everywhere. I prefer to rule that Superiors are so powerful that they can't help but cause massive Disturbance. I am planning on having a fair amount of detective work in my game, and for that to work there need to be universals that players can use in their planning. Clearly this is a campaign specific thing, though. - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:08:48 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > Uriel, Malakim Archangel of Fire > "fallen", but still an angel in God's eyes. Personality wise, she is > a syncretic mix of the canon Uriel, Gabriel, and Dominic; she was Ah, I see I'm not the only GM to fuse the punishment aspects of Fire with the discernment aspect of Judgement. > Oannes is an interesting soul. He is fourth Angel to be created by > Yahweh, and his word of Water had, at the time, a heavy connotation > of Creation. It was he who created the nam-shub of breaking, which > totally removed the inborn language humans had evolved. This > nam-shub was the cause of legends of the Garden of Eden and the > Flood; Yahweh ordered Oannes to flood the Tigris and Euphrates, to > destroy the nam-shub before it spread. Oannes' refusal to cause a > flood got him and all the Grigori imprisoned in Hell, after which > Yahweh flooded the two rivers anyway. Oannes, however, was freed by > the ba'al shem Moloch, and released his nam-shub again in Babylon. > If he still lives, it is not in Hell; he and the Grigori are in > hiding, if they survive at all. > > Questions? Yes. I read that paragraph, but I didn't get past all the proper nouns. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:30:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Lorenzo Giovanni Subject: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs (was Re: attempt inject understand) On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > Questions? What do you do about Hell and DPs, and where did they fit into the heirarchy? Why did none of the original 8 AAs take the plunge? On the assumption that power comes at least partially with age, and that therefore six of the Archangels are the Top Six Tough Things, what is Hell's edge that keeps it from invasion? What about the Ethereal Gods? Are they powerful, or as wuss as in the Marches? Are the AAs a well-oiled machine, or does Uriel distrust Eli, Michael distrust Yves, etc? Has Laurence taken over the 'lone warrior' thing entirely, or is Michael still, when you get down to basics, Archangel of Nails? Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:30:18 -0500 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Outcast Michael >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:04:51 -0500 >From: Earl Wajenberg >Subject: IN> Outcast Michael > >Neel Krishnaswami wrote that, in his campaign: > >> In Heaven, Laurence commands >> the armies of God and Michael is fighting to keep from being cast >> out. > >Now *that's* an interesting wrinkle, an Outcast Archangel. Gabriel >comes close, but she's clearly not Outcast all the same. For an >ordinary angel, being Outcast means being thrown out by your >Archangel; I suppose that, for an Archangel, being Outcast means >being thrown out by the Seraphim Council? Yup. There's an added wrinkle in my game. Michael is the Prince of Heaven, Viceroy of God, Principality of Israel, the whole nine yards. He theoretically has the authority to give commands to /any/ angel that can only be contradicted by God Himself, though he has never used his power in all the history of Heaven. This is the reason Dominic tried him for pride IMC. Dominic thought that Michael was showing pride by not excercising the authority God had entrusted him with -- basically dereliction of duty. But then God came and said Michael was right not to issue orders, but it isn't clear to the angels whether or not God has taken this power away from Michael and formalized the Seraphim Council as an institution. It's hard to get legalistic rulings from raw divine glory. (Okay, unless you're Jewish, that is. :) So if the Seraphim Council voted to cast him out, and Michael refused, there would be a legal headache so big Dominic doesn't even want to think about it. Heaven could be split down the middle, with both sides honestly believing they are serving God's will. Of course, Yves is behind it all, including Eli and Gabriel's dissonance, Uriel's purge and Blandine's subsequent estrangement from Heaven. It's just the sort of devious, bitter poison you would expect from one of the Fallen. Michael knows, but no one is listening to him. The Divine Logic attunement run at Superior strength can make anyone overlook subtle points like "God's favorite Seraph might have a clue". I'll explain Yves's Fall in another post, if there's interest, but right now I need to use the phone for calling someone other than my ISP. :) - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:26:56 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Outcast Michael At 10:04 AM -0500 02/23/1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Neel Krishnaswami wrote that, in his campaign: > >> In Heaven, Laurence commands >> the armies of God and Michael is fighting to keep from being cast >> out. > >Now *that's* an interesting wrinkle, an Outcast Archangel. Gabriel >comes close, but she's clearly not Outcast all the same. For an >ordinary angel, being Outcast means being thrown out by your >Archangel; I suppose that, for an Archangel, being Outcast means >being thrown out by the Seraphim Council? > One character in DC comics would fit that bill, the Phantom Stranger. The later writings about him show him to be a cosmic power with ambivalent ties to Heaven. He's never come clean about his origins, but his being an Outcast angel is among the top three suppositions. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:32:46 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: IN> Harcourt Finton Balseraph Character One: Remember everything he tells you is a lie. Character Two: Listen to me very closely Norman, I am lying. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:12:27 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Belial Rite makes no sense At 1:24 PM -0600 2/21/98, S. Dickie wrote: >One of the rites for demons of Fire says "Spend half an hour in 250 deg. F >heat." (The being must be immune to fire to benefit from this!) >The problem is that Firewalker specifically say demons with this attunement >are not immune to heat only fire. Does this mean the rite really is "Spend >half an hour in flames that are at least 250 deg F"? In this case, I'd probably invoke the "unless stated otherwise, a Rite won't hurt the celestial perfoming it" clause. (Used for Jeanites plugging in for a few hours...) If a Belial-Servitor has Firewalker, Baron of the Demonic Brazier, or whatever else, they can use this Rite. (And spending a half-hour in flames that are at least 250F is certainly a quick and obvious way to do the Rite!) [Of course, if a GM wishes to rule otherwise, and say that it's the hot fire that does the Rite thing, I smile and say, "Bless you, GM."] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:22:55 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> RE: IN- Re: Jean's Kyrios At 11:23 PM -0800 2/22/98, David Streeter wrote: >I'd suggest the elemental AAs - Wind, Stone, Fire, Lightning - are all >fairly old. Vapula was probably a word-bound Angel of Jean. Actually, Vaps is Hellborn. (p. IN182: "He was never an angel, and Hell suits him far better than Heaven would;[...]") His age is, as yet, un-defined. But if you want to do something different with him in *your* campaign... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:36:24 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Varying superior disturbance levels Neel wrote: > >Do you have a particular reason why Michael is still more powerful than > >Lucifer? I assume that given the amount of time Lucifer has had to catch > >up on Michael, and given his more powerful Word, and, IMO, the fact that > >Michael's Word feeds Lucifer's, I think that Lucifer is likely far > >stronger. (You don't get a Michaelite intervention when you roll a 333, do > >you?) > > Yes, I do. One of the metaphysical threads running through the backstory > of my game is that the universe isn't dualistic: Lucifer isn't God's > opposite number. He is the prince of the fallen angels, just as Michael > is prince of the unfallen angels. (More on this in another post...) I tend to see Lucifer as Michael's opposite number as well. Seriously, when it all comes down to it (IMO), the forces of heaven and Hell may not know who will win Armageddon, but it doesn't really matter to God since everything's made of him in the first place. Say Lucifer wins. God can just say, "That was a nice experiment" and unfold himself, recreate the universe and try it again. As for Divine/Infernal interventions, I'm not sure if I'm misreading the rules or what, but when they occur to my players they are VERY rarely the act of God/Lucifer respectively. I generally interpret them as "Some powerful Divine/Infernal force takes direct action". This may be God or Lucifer, but more frequently (in my game) it's an Archangel/Demon Prince. As an example, in our first game, one of my PCs (a Soldier of God in service to Janus (Wind)) was about to be killed (by a demon) and rolled a Divine Intervention. I described this to the player as the demon raising his clawed hand for the killing blow. He discovers his hand is held and when he looks around a huge blue-skinned humanoid is holding his arm, smiling and shaking his head. He then casually threw the demon out the window, where it landed with a justifiable splat. Janus then happily disappeared. God and Lucifer are much more subtle than that IMO. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:56:38 -0500 (EST) From: Raoul Duke Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Casca wrote: > On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > Oannes is an interesting soul. He is fourth Angel to be created by > > Yahweh, and his word of Water had, at the time, a heavy connotation > > of Creation. It was he who created the nam-shub of breaking, which > > totally removed the inborn language humans had evolved. This > > nam-shub was the cause of legends of the Garden of Eden and the > > Flood; Yahweh ordered Oannes to flood the Tigris and Euphrates, to > > destroy the nam-shub before it spread. Oannes' refusal to cause a > > flood got him and all the Grigori imprisoned in Hell, after which > > Yahweh flooded the two rivers anyway. Oannes, however, was freed by > > the ba'al shem Moloch, and released his nam-shub again in Babylon. > > If he still lives, it is not in Hell; he and the Grigori are in > > hiding, if they survive at all. > > Questions? > Yes. I read that paragraph, but I didn't get past all the proper nouns. I understood fine. Hey, they're just names. The story would lose something, I think, if reduced to "some god told this angel to make rain and flood those two rivers." :) If you don't know what nam-shubs or ba'al shems are, basically, a ba'al shem is the Hebrew word for wizard (a gross simplification; it literally means something like "master of the word"). As for nam-subs, recall that Nathaniel (does your name translate into anything cool? :)) said in part 1 of this cosmology that his campaign draws heavily on Snow Crash, among other things. A nam-shub is something from Sumerian myth that figures heavily in that book. Spoilers for Snow Crash (and go read it, it's very good): Basically, humans are hardwired to respond in certain ways to certain stimuli (called nam-shubs), and in the beginning we were all automatons directed by rare self-aware humans. One such self-aware Sumerian, Enki, apparently grew tired of being the only free-willed human and crafted a nam-shub that would make other humans self-aware. As a result, the knowledge of nam-shubs, the primal language, was lost. The Tower of Babel myth derives from this event. Joe - ------ Big Brother's watching? Learn to become Invisible. "Looking at my action figure, it occurred to me that that's not a bad way to face the world: gorgeous, heavily-armed, and distinctively masked." - -- Amy Rambow, contemplating Cosmic Angela How I waste my time: http://acs1.bu.edu:8001/~arie/rpg.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:59:13 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Falling/Repenting and Words >Just a thought, but it seems to ring true. Any Seraph out there? Yes, but I only got a one on my check-digit. :p - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:18:43 -0800 From: Drake Subject: IN> Statistics for Superiors For a while, I have wondered at the capabilities of the Archangels and Demon Princes of In Nomine. As in how many Forces they have, what songs, skills, and attunements they possess, etc. I've done some work with them, but have yet to be satisfied with the outcome, so I have decided to come to here and ask for suggestions. I know there are some out there that would prefer for the Superiors not to be given stats, but I'm curious as to what they would be like. I know they won't fit into the current game mechanics, or at least, not very easily. My quest is not to fit them within the game mechanics, but to simply classify them. Ok here goes.. WORDS - Every Superior has one, and controls basically his or her power levels. If the Word is strong,the Superior is strong, etc. Unlike regular Word-bound Angels, Superiors are affected by their Word's influence to a much greater level. This in effect, basically controls the number of Forces a Superior has. Every Archangel and Demon Prince has numerous powers that directly come from their Word. These usually manifest themselves as Attunements. FORCES - This has been the greatest point of disagreement that I have seen thus far; How many Forces does a Superior have? Given their disturbance on the Corporeal Plane, it suggests perhaps either 20-30 total, or roughly 20 or so Corporeal and 30 or so Celestially. Some have suggested that Superiors should have hundreds of Forces and others have said nearly unlimited. Personally, I'm not sure anymore how many Forces they should have. DISSONANCE - Superiors suffer from the same Dissonance that their servents have as well as those of the individual Superior's Choir/Band. ATTUNEMENTS and DISTINCTIONS - Superiors have every Choir/Band and Servitor Attunements they give their servents, as well as possessing all the abilities their Distinctions grant. RITES - Superiors possess all Rites they give out, plus several more. TETHERS - In order for a Superior to have any Influence in the Corporeal World, they must have at least 1 Tether. From what I've figured out, that if a Superior loses all his or her Tethers, then he or she becomes very weak.. perhaps loses half of his Forces? I don't know, just an idea off the top of my head. ESSENCE CACHE - I think that Superiors have an Essence Cache similar to Ethereals, equal to 100 times their total Forces, which is used for creating Vessels and perhaps other things. CREATING ANGELS AND DEMONS - Superiors, thru their Essence Cache and perhaps thru a Skill of Force Binding(?), are able to take either some of their Forces, other Celestial's Forces, or using Essence to create the Forces (same as a vessel.. 75 Essence per Force for a humaniod being, including Angels and Demons). If the Superior uses existing Forces, this cost would be divided by 5 (Angels would cost 25 Essence per Force if using existing Forces). SONGS AND SKILLS - Superiors buy Songs and Skills as normal characters, except they may learn them up to level 12(?). Some of the older Superiors might know all Skills at a certain level and the real old ones might even know all Songs at a certain level SUPERIOR SONGS - To make things simple, all effects of a Superior's Songs are 10 times the normal levels, except for damage with is 2 times the normal levels. (?) Well this is what I have so far, if there are any additional powers anyone can think of, let me know, and if there are any suggestions, especially on the Forces, please let me know what you think. Amon-Nahashel "Drake", Seraph of War, working hard to improve the standards of tactlessness ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #640 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.