From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Feb 27 19:41:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05957 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:41:04 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id TAA14946 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:30:32 -0600 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:30:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199802280130.TAA14946@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #652 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, February 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 652 In this digest: Re: IN> Contemporary Ethereals Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> Medical Skill Re: IN> Contemporary Ethereals Re: IN> An Expanded Jordi Writeup (warning: liberties /have/ been taken.) Re: IN> Role Q Re: IN> Evil Trick with Roles Re: IN> Blandine Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> Contemporary Ethereals IN> Re: IN: Cats IN> Re: IN: Cats Re: IN> Re: IN: Cats Re: IN> Mephistopheles Re: IN> Mephistopheles IN> Re: IN: Cats & Etherial Classification Re: IN> Mammon (was Varying Superior Disturbance Levels) Re: IN> Question about Grey Lilim and Malakim Re: IN> Re: IN: Cats Re: IN> Question about Grey Lilim and Malakim Re: IN> Re: IN: Cats Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (long) Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (long) IN> Jean or Vapula?? Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:37:49 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Contemporary Ethereals > Great thats all we need, a 50' Ronald Mc Donald running rampant in > LA, ala Stay-Puft in Ghostbusters. Still the idea makes sense. Oh, god. In Nomine Ghostbusters. The mind is officially boggled. (God, but that was a fun movie. "She interests me because she sleeps above her sheets...four feet above them.") Anybody care to try it, or must I commit my fevered brain to the task? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:37:49 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors > Good idea, read those supplements and found them intriguing, I > think it would be interesting to have a campaign where characters > are superiors, it would be quite fun, sorta like Birthright In > Nomine style (you know, managing a realm, souls, servitors, every > now and then kicking butt) I suggested that a while ago, and even tried to get it going. However, it fell through for lack of time on my part. You're welcome to talk to me (off list) about what I have available for it. > and oh yeah, Mister whoever it was who gave only 75 forces to Demon > Princes, That's me. And I stand by it, for established DPs (though I'd rule that beginning DPs would be markedly lower). > if anything they are probably several times more powerful then the > average Arvhangel (except for Michael of course) I mean, Archangels > don't rench Forces from the souls they caretake, Saminga is > probably a Juggernaut by now (You don't really think he puts them > all in to Undead creation?) Okay, two things: 1) Who says they don't (the AAs I mean). Have *you* ever looked in Larry's basement? Or the higher Heavens? 2) I've ruled, for my campaigns at least, that the only Forces you can "paste on" are corporeal ones; the others are too tied up in the person's sense of self to be safe dealing with. Yes, Saminga *could* have tons of Corporeal Forces, but that's not going to help so much in a Celestial fight anyway; he'd probably end up loosing all his Celestial or Ethereal Forces in a battle to the death, and start wandering the earth as the toughest Remnant in existance... 3) (yeah, I said two. I lied.) Archangels also don't infight. The DPs outnumber the AAs (in my game, anyway; it goes along with that Quality vs Quantity thing that many people have mentioned) but the DPs fight both each other and the AAs. So they tend to loose more Forces than the average AA, who only has to fight DPs. > Sorry if I sound petty but I do love my Demons! Oh, I do to. But then, I like underdogs... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:37:49 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors > >Nope. Consistancy doesn't require balance. In fact, an internally > >consistant world is often changing. But what I meant is that the > >balance is not one caused by physical power. IMO, much of hell is > >unbalanced; Lilith is not as powerful as Baal, for instance. But > >Lilith has political power (which isn't really easy to apply a stat > >to, if you want realism) that keeps her in place. > > Hmm. Perhaps I shouldn't have used 'balance'. What I meant was that > if all things are part of the GM design, then the effect of one upon > the other is largely patent, excusing GM whimsy and role-playing > reward. Initially, it will be GM patent, yes. But there is still room for unpredicted results, especially if something touches off a fight between two fairly well balanced Superiors. > >(Roll and shout just means that I don't let my players know I'm > >making it up as I go along...) > > Aren't we all, GMs and players alike, making this up as we go along? Not in my case. I do make up some stuff, but for the most part I have a good idea of what I'm basing it on, first. It's a matter of extrapolation, rather than simply pulling answers from thin air. > >The thing is, I like my world to be unpredictable, at every level. I > >may set up things so that one party is likely to win, but if I set > >things up so that one party *will* win, the players have no chance of > >having sweeping effects. > > Sure, things are unpredictable in a world - so the GM modifies or > adds events which reflect this. Unless of course the intention is > for the GM to surprise the GM. *Exactly*. I like surprises. If the GM is God, then I am a lot like the Deist watchmaker - I make the rules, then let the game go where it will. > >I don't want to "just decide"! If you do, fine; you can ignore stats > >for Superiors. But don't tell me I shouldn't do it... > > Now that you've said that, I won't. Unless of course you post again > of this subject, then... :-) Well, I will be posting, but more along the lines of the actual stats, in future. If you're interested in helping shape those stats, feel free to jump in with the occasional comment... > >> I believe Superior statistics are a liability rather than a > >> resource. But, in the end, we all do what we want to do. I'm happy > >> to debate the pros and cons of Superior statistics ad infinitum > >> without either of us ever seeing the light. If that's a problem, > >> I'll stop now. :-) > > > >Well, yeah. I know I won't convince you of the need for Superior > > Oops. Does 'yeah' mean there's a problem? Nope - it means I'm agreeing with what you said. It came out snippier than it should have, thats all. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:57:48 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Medical Skill On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > > Can someone explain to me what is going on here? > > Under the skill medicine, it has the following chart (pg 76): > > Skill Level Treatment Time Hits Healed > 1 1 minute == to patient's ST > 2 1 day 2x patient's ST > 3-4 1 week 3x patient's ST > 5-6 1 minute 2x patient's ST > > I know this has been gone over before, but this chart makes absolutely no > sense whatsoever. Well, it sort of does, in a very very vague sort of > way, but whoever thought this up was on something good and is still not > sharing. Here's the reasoning behind it, AFAICT. You start off knowing first aid, which can be done quickly with minor results. Then you learn how to actually take care of a person and really help them recover. At higher levels, you can take care of a patient long-term, where real recover can begin. And if you're really good, then you can do as much for a person with your basic first aid as most doctors can do over an entire day of helping the person. The chart is still rather silly...why bother taking care of someone for a day to heal 2x ST when you can do the same in two minutes anyways? Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:06:07 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Contemporary Ethereals Nathaniel Eliot said: > Oh, god. In Nomine Ghostbusters. The mind is officially boggled. > (God, but that was a fun movie. "She interests me because she sleeps > above her sheets...four feet above them.") > > Anybody care to try it, or must I commit my fevered brain to the > task? Ack... no thanks, it's all yours! I'm still working my poor little brain off with my INWO 'In Nomine expansion' on the INWO list...but I'll definitely comment from the sidelines as you post. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:20:29 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> An Expanded Jordi Writeup (warning: liberties /have/ been taken.) At 7:30 PM -0600 2/26/98, Dataweaver wrote: >On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> #2: this is, of course, entirely untrue -- cats are demons. Or >> Habbalah. Hm. Definitely Habbalah-ish -- beautiful, make you >> love them and do what they want, selfish, and will bite and >> scratch when annoyed. > >OTOH, Habbalah are angel, not demons... That's why I said "or Habbalah." But Habbalah aren't just *any* old angels... They're angels with tattoos! (I think my blood sugar is dropping. I should eat something.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:28:28 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Role Q At 6:12 PM -0800 2/26/98, Querent wrote: >I've got to disagree with Beth on this one. ("Uh oh Earl, looks like >that Querent kid's feelin' mighty uppity again...") Hey, if I say something in canon, I usually back it up with page references! >It's just a matter of being "almost real". The rest is just a matter >of occupation. Do you have 1 job that takes 24 hours of your life, or >3 that take 8 hours each? If it's within an established character, >I'd go with it. In this case, the established character is a thief >who washes windows. Kind of similar to the Marine who plays role >playing games (makes no disturbance if he punches another player who >looks at his character sheet.) Hm. One reason I'd want to be careful is if you have a Thief-Role who is posing as something else *useful* -- letting him have [x] for free could be unbalancing. It's pretty much a GM call. The thing is, from the game-mechanics reading, it's "actions that would otherwise disturbe the Symphony" that *pertain to the Role*. A cop-Role lets you carry a gun and shoot it on the range (practice), or shoot an escaping fugitive, etc., without making noise (maybe). If you're a crooked cop, you might get away with beating up people in Role. But if you're out in the woods stalking that dang Malakite of Jordi and his friendly wolfpack, every wolf you shoot with your cop-gun or hit with your cop-baton is going to make Symphonic noise. If you're out hunting with your cop buddies, I *might* do the roll (perhaps at a penalty!) to see if the deer being shot makes disturbance. If you're alone and there's no way I can see this as reinforcing the Role, then you make the noise. If you're breaking into someone's apartment, though, and it's without a warrent and not in the line of duty (Hey, he's a Soldier, we gotta off him!), that will *all* make noise. >Because there's no cost difference for the amount of disturbance you >can get away with, It is sort of an all-or-nothing thing, though the *chances* of making that disturbance drop with the more points you put into it. >I would argue there's no difference in cost for >number of things you do, professionally or otherwise. >To sum up, roles are rated for two things: >1) How much resources (material or otherwise) are at your disposal. >(ie. status) > >2) The chances the role will mask any disturbance made while "playing >in character", *regardless* of what that actual character is. That's certainly an option any GM can take. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:02:43 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Evil Trick with Roles At 3:34 AM -0500 2/27/98, Brandon Quina wrote: >Also, dont soldiers make disturbance for using songs?? I know >they dont for spending essence and killing people, but what about >songs?? :) They cause disturbance when: * Using Songs * Spending Essence "controlled"/"consciously". (I.e., if they're blowing everything unconsciously, like any other human, then they're okay. If they're spending a point or two specifically, then they make noise.) It is possible a GM could rule that, having been taught conscious Essence expenditure, a Solder *can no longer do it UNconsciously*! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:04:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Blandine At 5:08 AM -0500 2/27/98, AmadanSJG@compuserve.com wrote: [...] >Well, for what it's worth from the guy who wrote it, had this inconsistency >pointed out before it went to press, agreed and _thought_ it was going to >be corrected...yeah. That's how I'd rule too. > >-David, Dissonant Elohite of Judgment who makes mistakes sometimes and >whose Word is _not_ Disagreeing With the Demon Princess Line Editor (that I >do just for fun ;)) Nitpick: Word is listed right here as "Argues With Beth"... };) (Of course, having access to a Pen of Editing [fix the original, and all the copies get fixed too!] will do that for one...) (And it would't be "disagrees" anyway -- we can argue perfectly well when we *agree*.) - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:13:01 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors > > Aren't we all, GMs and players alike, making this up as we go along? > > Not in my case. I do make up some stuff, but for the most part I > have a good idea of what I'm basing it on, first. It's a matter of > extrapolation, rather than simply pulling answers from thin air. Clearly this is how we differ. I always pull stuff out of thin air. I haven't a clue what is going to happen next, and I figure, hey, whatever it is, it'll be cool. :) People always assume I know what the hell is going on. What a mistake. :::> - - Em, Demon of Big Floppy Sweatshirts. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:16:07 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors > > if anything they are probably several times more powerful then the > > average Arvhangel (except for Michael of course) I mean, Archangels > > don't rench Forces from the souls they caretake, Saminga is > > probably a Juggernaut by now (You don't really think he puts them > > all in to Undead creation?) > > Okay, two things: > > 1) Who says they don't (the AAs I mean). Have *you* ever looked in > Larry's basement? Or the higher Heavens? Yup. Larry keeps all his LEGOs, toy trains, and stuffed animals in his basement. He secretly doesn't want you to know about his soft cuddly side. > 2) I've ruled, for my campaigns at least, that the only Forces you > can "paste on" are corporeal ones; the others are too tied up in the > person's sense of self to be safe dealing with. Yes, Saminga *could* > have tons of Corporeal Forces, but that's not going to help so much > in a Celestial fight anyway; he'd probably end up loosing all his > Celestial or Ethereal Forces in a battle to the death, and start > wandering the earth as the toughest Remnant in existance... And I wonder... do YOU want to fight Saminga? Er... his demon skeez will wreck up my leather jacket. - - Em, Demon of the Plaid ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:19:39 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> Contemporary Ethereals Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > Oh, god. In Nomine Ghostbusters. The mind is officially boggled. > > (God, but that was a fun movie. "She interests me because she sleeps > above her sheets...four feet above them.") "Ray, if someone asks if you're a god... You say YES!" Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:44:59 -0600 (CST) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Re: IN: Cats On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >But they are not judgemental, and are callous rather than cruel. > > This is true, I suppose. (Though Huntington *does* chase Tuffy and > beat her up for no apparent reason *except* meanness.) Correction: Cats as a race have callous (some have bought it off) as Habbies have cruelty. Individual cats can have all sorts of interesting ads/disads/quirks/discords/etc. Be with Bast,, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:00:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: IN: Cats At 3:44 PM -0600 2/27/98, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: >On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> >But they are not judgemental, and are callous rather than cruel. >> >> This is true, I suppose. (Though Huntington *does* chase Tuffy and >> beat her up for no apparent reason *except* meanness.) > >Correction: Cats as a race have callous (some have bought it off) as >Habbies have cruelty. Individual cats can have all sorts of interesting >ads/disads/quirks/discords/etc. Ahhhhh, okay. This make sense. Hm. I wonder if Cats are a Band all to themselves? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:05:35 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN: Cats Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > I wonder if Cats are a Band all to themselves? This reminds me of the belief of King Haggard, in "The Last Unicorn," that there is no such animal as a cat. Rather, the cat shape is one used by various imps to torment humans. I'd say cats are a *Choir* of their own, similar to the Seraphim, only they don't resonnate to truth, but to candor; cats always let you know exactly how you stand with them. They are put here to teach us humility. The problem is that the teach it to all the other Choirs, too... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:20:56 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Mephistopheles tom writes >[Much snippage as offering to the greater Etherial god of Bandwidth] > Elohim servitor of Jean, *Angel* of Bandwidth? :) >> >> Now; the points that I'm still not all too sure work that well are the >> Lilim resonance, and the Negative Principle attunement. I also thought >> originally of the bal's having some form of limited danger sense or >> making that another servitor attunement, but couldn't figure the best >> way to do it. >> >> Suggestions? >How about something like the Malak of War attunement? GM rolls the >Djinn's Perception behind the screen, success indicates the Djinn [they >are Hell's Stalkers] has locked on to a person or place fraught with >imminent danger. Tagteam them with a Lilim, who can offer to get the >person out of their peril...for a price, and there you go. Of course, >the Djinn doesn't really _care_ about whether or not the person is >saved, but hey, it keeps their DP off of the Djinn's back, so they don't >end up having to walk the halls of the Castle Perilous to answer Meph.'s >summons. After all, some of those trapdoor slides lead to Vapu-Labs in >Tartarus, and even the most apathetic of Djinn cares about not becoming >an experimental subject, for some strange reason *g*. > Yes, something like that could be good, and has in fact been suggested by one of my players, _come away from my keyboard, Paul_. How about different danger senses for each choir statted up as a servitor attunement? Using Per Rolls? Eg; Bals - detect danger to themselves, naturally! Djinn - detect danger to object(s) of attunement. ie, they don't have to announce a resonance roll, it just kicks in. Cal - (detect themselves!?) Just Kidding :) Detect danger inherent in a thing, effectively detect structural Weakness. On a successful check, they get to apply their resonance for greater effect? More damage? (PAUL:- vessels with no corporeal discord have *no* structural weaknesses? detect those pesky angels!) Hab - detect resultant *possible* dangers to a given action, once committed! Lilim - Detect a victim in danger. If the victim is helped he gets an auto geas of level equal to danger. Sheds - detect if *prospective* host is currently in danger Imps - Detect danger to humans - -- Julian - Demon of Bludgeoning Paul jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:17:46 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Mephistopheles >tom timberlake wrote: > >> Since I'm an optimist and _my_ reading of Goethe's "Faust" leaves room >> for either an Angelic *or* Demonic victory, I guess I will be busy >> tinkering, making some _other_ dark sorceror the unfortunate one that >> Meph. won out over. > >Perhaps Julian was thinking of Marlowe's "Dr. Faustus," which has >an unambiguously damned ending. > >For a historical survey of the Faust theme, see: > > http://192.146.206.5/www/faculty/shaferi/faust.html > >I found this on the "Ecole Initiative" pages, where you can find lots >of other theological stuff. Of interest to this list might be: > >An article on the Holy Grail at: > > http://192.146.206.5/www/faculty/shaferi/grail.html > >An article on Mithraism at: > > http://www.evansville.edu/~ecoleweb/articles/mithraism.html > >The Ecole Initiative itself is at: > > http://cedar.evansville.edu/~ecoleweb/ecolea.html > >Earl > Indeed I was Earl. In early stories of Faust (such as Christopher Marlowe's 'Tragedy of Dr. Faustus' 1589?) there is certainly no ambiguity in the ending. Faust gets carried off to Hell at the end of 24 years of debauchery and wickedness. Goethe's Faust (written first part, 1808; second, 1832) differs in that the magician makes a compact with 'the devil' because he genuinely desires to extend the boundaries of his knowledge in order to aid humanity. In the end he is not damned. Goethe's Faust is certainly by far the most popular version of the legend. But then I always have enjoyed unhappy endings. (Told ya we'd got him :-P ) - -- Jules - Demon of Thumbing His Nose to Malakim From *Vast* Distances jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:27:47 -0600 (CST) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Re: IN: Cats & Etherial Classification On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > I wonder if Cats are a Band all to themselves? Are groups of similar Etherials "Bands?" It's kind of unfair, isn't it? Angels have chiors, demons have bands, and the poor etherials have no good musical adjective to call their own. OTOH, Etherials are a diverse lot, so maybe it doesn't come up often. Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:51:50 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Mammon (was Varying Superior Disturbance Levels) Earl Wajenberg writes >Personally, I'd call it Gluttony versus Avarice or Covetousness (sp?) >because "greed" is ambiguous. And I'd regard Gluttony as a "sin of >the flesh," done for sensual satisfaction, and so centering on >physical consumption -- eating, drinking, shooting up, perhaps stuff >like excessive TV-viewing but that's getting borderline. > >Other "sins of the flesh" from the Seven Deadlies are Lust and Sloth. >Maybe Wrath, too. > >Avarice is a "sin of the world" and, to my mind, involves possession >and acquisition, not consumption. Not that the two are incompatible. _We_ think that; Greed is having too much of something for the sake of having it Gluttony is having too much of something because you like it Envy is "wanting something that somebody else has, that you don't have," Covertousness is "wanting something that somebody else has" Avarice is "greed for wealth. The true love of money" Selfishness is "utter lack of consideration for others. Look after number 1" > >And "I want lots because, well, then *you* can't have it" is Envy, >also a Deadly and a "sin of the world," as is Pride. No. Greeeed. If I have everything then you have nothing! - -- Jules and Paul (who came round tonite. Without a Chinese Takeout.) (I Might Add.) jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:36:45 -0600 (CST) From: veazey@ebicom.net Subject: Re: IN> Question about Grey Lilim and Malakim > >>http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Lilim.Urilebana.html Umm... this page was empty when I checked it a bit ago. Got a "Document contains no Data" response. Just thought someone would like to know. I kinda wanted to read it. Vz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:45:24 -0600 (CST) From: veazey@ebicom.net Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN: Cats Cats as there own Band. I just want everyone to know that I think that is sick. Just my opinion. Vz PS I don't think I could handle one of my pets being a demon. I would mean that they have been corrupting me since early childhood. *cringe* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:04:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question about Grey Lilim and Malakim At 5:36 PM -0600 2/27/98, veazey@ebicom.net wrote: >> >>http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Lilim.Urilebana.html > >Umm... this page was empty when I checked it a bit ago. Got a "Document >contains no Data" response. > >Just thought someone would like to know. I kinda wanted to read it. >Vz Something ate it. I've re-uploaded it. If it's *still* empty, I'll do it *again*. I just checked (7:03 pm, EST, 2/27/98), and it's there for me. (Or you can contact me and I'll email it to ya.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:06:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN: Cats At 5:45 PM -0600 2/27/98, veazey@ebicom.net wrote: >Cats as there own Band. I just want everyone to know that I think that is >sick. Just my opinion. >PS I don't think I could handle one of my pets being a demon. I would >mean that they have been corrupting me since early childhood. *cringe* It's okay, they're sweet and cuddly little demons, sorta like Impudites, only too lazy to corrupt people. They just want to be cuddled (when *they* want), petted, fed, and allowed to take over the bed at night. (But they are selfish. Very selfish. Bedhogs.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 19:16 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (long) >>I've been thinking a bit about this, also, and came up with the notion >>that Superiors have 18 Forces among Corporeal/Ethereal/Celestial; the >>remainder of their Forces are tied up in their Word, and wax and wane >>with the power of the Word. I may propose this as canon, if there is >>ever any serious attempt to describe game mechanics for Superiors. > >Ok how about this.. Superior's Forces range from 14-36 (roughly double >the power levels of Celestials). This is their Core Forces. I think 18 is generally fine, actually, though some Superiors may have slightly-boosted characteristics (Jean and Intelligence, for example). Since they have essentially unlimited Essence, their stats don't really matter much, since they can simply try as hard as they feel necessary. > The Superior >would have a 4th Force type, Word Forces. This Force can range between >1-100 and is determined by how powerful a Superior's Word is. The Word >Force is then multiplied by the Superior's Essence to determine how much >Essence he or she has (A Superior with 36 Forces and 100 Word Forces, >would have 3600 Essence..). Complicated.... I'd just let Word Forces free-range, and use the usual Essence store=Forces rule. >>It's not clear to me if a Superior *can* be dissonant -- they *are* >>their Word, so they can't really act against their nature; they merely >>redefine their Word a bit by their actions. > >Superiors can gain Dissonance from my understanding.. I live with the the line editor -- and *she's* not sure. I think.... >I doubt if Superiors have the Resonance of ALL Choirs or Bands. But they >may have the Resonance and Dissonance of the Choirs or Bands whose Choir >Attunements are depended upon a Resonance (Example, Michael's Cherubim >Attunement requires the Cherub Resonance, so thus Michael would have the >Cherub Res and Diss as well). Most Superiors would thus have the >Kyriotate Res and thus explains how they can be at several locations at >once. I believe it's going to be canon that all Superiors are capable of multi-location. Other resonances are more open to question. >>I've been thinking that Tethers are partly Essence generators/conduits >>to the Superior helping feed him Essence from the power of his Word in >>the corporeal world. Thus, without Tethers, the Superior's major >>Essence flow is diminished severely. > >>Tether canon may be established sometime in the not-too-distant future, >>I'll probably propose something like this. > >The Word Force could be depended upon Tethers. For every 1% of a >Superior's Tethers that are destroyed, then the Superior loses 0.5% of >his Total Word Forces (Example, Michael loses 50% of his Tethers, then >his Word Force would drop by 25%, say from 100 to 75). Tethers certainly are part of the strength of a Superior's Word, since they are places where it is extremely strong. Thus, destroying one is clearly weakening his Word. I don't know about quantifying it -- for one thing, some Tethers are stronger than others. Possibly some of the Word Forces help form each Tether, or at least stabilize it. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:40:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (long) At 7:16 PM -0500 2/27/98, Walter Milliken wrote: >>>It's not clear to me if a Superior *can* be dissonant -- they *are* >>>their Word, so they can't really act against their nature; they merely >>>redefine their Word a bit by their actions. >> >>Superiors can gain Dissonance from my understanding.. > >I live with the the line editor -- and *she's* not sure. I think.... If a Superior goes against his or her nature or Word, it's Bad, but the form the Badness takes may or may not bear much resemblance to what PC-grade Celestials know as "dissonance." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:13:08 From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Jean or Vapula?? Dear List not sure if the news would have reached around the globe but last week there were two major power outages around the southern hemisphere. In SE Queensland they had 5 major powerplants go out because of the same fault, the boilers overheated and had to be shut down. This dropped about 20% of the power out of their grid when demand was going through the roof because everyone had turned their airconditioners on because of the heat, why do you think the boilers overheated in the fist place. This caused rotating blackouts around the state to spread the lack of power around, I think the schedule was one hour off three hours on. Over the Tasman the capital of New Zealand, Auckland, has been completely without power for a week, and not going to get any back til monday or so, because the four cables going from their one powerplant to the city all overheated and failed. Now at first I thought this had to be the actions agents of Vapula, but an article I read through the week made me consider it might be a long term plan by Jean. Basically the article suggested that the failures might start to break down peoples confidence in current technologies and make then look again at alternatives, particularly in the cooling of buildings and power generation. Since the majority of the current methods of cooling and powergeneration leave a lot to be desired, from resource consumption and environmental grounds, maybe this is Jean giving us a gentle nudge towards the airconditioning God always planned for us. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:19:58 -0800 From: Drake Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (long) Here goes... FORCES - Superior's Forces range from 14-36 (Rare exceptions when they can go lower or higher). Celestials will have a 4th Force, Word Forces. This Force can range between 1-12 (Non-Superior Celestials have a limit of 6) and is determined by how powerful a beings Word is. Non-Word Bound Celestials Word Force is dependent upon the Word they serve (Note that many GMs probly would not like the idea of regular Celestials having this much Essence, so you can easily restrict it to Word-Bound Celestials or perhaps just to Superiors). The Word Force is then multiplied by the Celestial's Essence to determine how much Essence he or she has. A Superior with 20 Forces and 10 Word Forces would have 200 Essence points. A Word-Bound Celestial with 15 Forces and 5 Word Forces would have 75 Essence. The Word Force has 2 Characteristics: Sense and Resonance. Sense allows the Celestial to perceive how his or her Word is doing in the Symphony (Make a roll similar to a Disturbance roll for any major occurance related to the Word). Resonance gives the Celestial the ability to manipulate the rules in respect to his or her Word. This is explained below in various situations. FORCE ADVANCEMENT - A Superior has to spend 20 character points in order to gain a new Force, plus spend off of his or her Essence (minimum of 10 times the level of the Force to be gained. Ex., to gain a 9th Celestial Force, would cost 20 character points plus at least 90 Essence). If the Superior loses 20 character points and 10 times the level of the Word Force in Essence (From failing to promote their Word for example), the Superior loses 1 Word Force. When this happens, the Superior rolls against his or her Word Force and if he or she fails, they lose 1 Core Force, determined randomly. DISSONANCE - Superiors suffer from the same Dissonance that they restrict their followers to as well as the Dissonance of his or her Choir/Band and the Choir/Bands whose Resonance the Superior has. Superiors can break the rules sometimes. This can be done by making a Word Force Resonance roll. If successful, the Superior gains no Dissonance for an action that would normally give the Superior Dissonance. ATTUNEMENTS and DISTINCTIONS - Superiors have every Choir/Band and Servitor Attunements they give their servents, as well as possessing all the abilities their Distinctions grant. Superiors may have the Resonance and Dissonance of the Choirs or Bands whose Choir Attunements are depended upon a Resonance (Example, Michael's CherubimAttunement requires the Cherub Resonance, so thus Michael would have the Cherub Res and Diss as well). Most Superiors would thus have the Kyriotate Res and thus explains how they can be at several locations at once. Note: This does not give every Superior every Resonance of every Choir/Band. RITES - Superiors possess all Rites they give out, plus several more. Word-Bound and Superiors gain 1 Essence each time one of their Servitors performs one of their personal Rites. To simplify this so as not to have to account for every servent out there, simply say the Superior gains 1d per Rite they give to their servents x 10 per day and Word-Bound Celestials would gain 1d per Rite they give to their servents per day (If they have any). Superiors also gain 1 character point per trivial promotion of their Word, 2 for minor, 3 for major, and 4 for drastic change, as well as the same amount in Essence. The Essence is gained at the end of the day and the greatest promotion of the Word is the one that determines how much Essence is gained (Michael promoted his Word a trivial time, a minor time and a major time. He would gain 3 Essence at the end of the day for the Major promotion). The reverse of this can also happen.. The Superior loses 1 character point for each trivial failure at promotion of the Word, -2 for minor, -3 for major, and -4 for drastic. Essence is also handled the same way, losing Essence for failing to promote the Word. TETHERS - In order for a Superior to have any Influence in the Corporeal World, they must have at least 1 Tether. The Word Force could be depended upon Tethers. For every 1% of a Superior's Tethers that are destroyed, then the Superior loses 0.2% of his Total Word Forces (Example, Michael loses 50% of his Tethers, then his Word Force would drop by 10%, say from 100 to 90). ESSENCE CACHE - Superiors have an Essence Cache similar to Ethereals, equal to 100 times their total Core Forces (Corporeal, Ethereal, Celestial), which is used for creating Vessels, and Celestials, and nothing else. CREATING ANGELS and DEMONS - Superiors, thru their Essence and a special Song, are able to take either some of their Forces, other Celestial's Forces, or using Essence to create the Forces (same as a vessel.. 75 Essence per Force for a humaniod being, including Angels and Demons). If the Superior uses existing Forces, this cost would be divided by 5 (Angels would cost 25 Essence per Force if using existing Forces). Song of Life (Simple version for now) Corporeal version creates Corporeal Life, Ethereal, Ethereal Life, Celestial, Celestial Life. To create an Angel would require Ethereal and Celestial (To create its mind and soul) and Corporeal if granting a Vessel (And for Humans, all 3 versions must be known. Causes a disturbance equal to the Forces used plus the Essence spent. SONGS AND SKILLS - Superiors buy Songs and Skills as normal characters. Superiors know every Skill at 1/4 his or her Ethereal Forces and know every Skill related to his or her Word at 1/2 instead, round down. Superiors know every Song at 1/5 his or her Ethereal Forces and know every Skill related to his or her Word at 1/3 instead, round down. Note that Superiors can easily buy these at higher levels using their Resource points, or boost them with Essence; Also, Ancient, non-Superior Celestials may have these as well, but will cost the Celestial 10 points for the Skills and 10 points for the Songs. EMPOWER ATTUNEMENT - This Attunement allows the user to bestow a special Attunement, Rite, or some other capability. Each use of this Attunement costs the Superior 1 Essence per character point that the power would cost. SONG OF REALITY - This Song allows the Celestial to shape the very fabric of the universe and is considered Celestial. The cost varies depending on the action: Create a Room or other Object (or anything within 2,000 cubic feet) - 10 Create a Small Home (or anything within 5,000 cubic feet) - 25 Create a Medium Home (or anything within 10,000 cubic feet) - 50 Create a Large Home (or anything over 10,000 cubic feet, but smaller then an average Island) - 100 Create an Island - 150 Create an Asteroid - 200 Create a Small Continent - 250 Create a Medium Continent - 300 Create a Large Continent - 400 Create a Small Moon - 450 Create a Medium Moon - 500 Create a Large Moon - 500 Create a Small Planet - 650 Create a Medium Planet - 800 Create a Large Planet - 500 Create a Complex Planet (Able to support life) - Add 1,000 Create a Small Sun - 1,250 Create a Medium Sun - 1,500 Create a Large Sun - 5,000 Create a Solar System - 10,000 Create a Star Cluster - 15,000 Create a Galaxy - 50,000 Create an Entire Universe - 1,000,000 The Superior may also move one of these objects for half the cost, or Alter it in some way for 1/10th the cost. Note that other beings may help in this creation, adding all of their Essence into 1 large pool for creation (If they all have this Song). The Degree of Disturbance is equal to the amount of Essence used. (1,000,000 Essence used at one time.. guess we know why they called it the Big Bang ;) Also note that the original Archangels didn't have enough Essence to create the entire Universe.. God did most of the work, they just helped :) - ---------- Tell me whatcha think of this attempt.. Amon-Nahashel "Drake", Noted ass-kicker of War ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #652 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.