From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Mar 10 21:55:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08672 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:55:37 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA22550 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:54:53 -0600 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:54:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199803110254.UAA22550@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #672 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, March 10 1998 Volume 01 : Number 672 In this digest: IN> In Nomine Over Zero Re: IN> In Nomine Over Zero Re: IN> Lilith Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith Re: IN> In Nomine Over Zero Re: IN> Lilith Re: IN> "More, More!" he cries.. IN> Herding clueless PCs Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs Re: IN> Lilith Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs Re: IN> Lilith Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament Re: IN> Lilith Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs Re: IN> Lilith Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs Re: IN> In Nomine Over Zero Re: IN> In Nomine Over Zero Re: IN> In pursuit of a Word Re: IN> In Nomine Over Zero Re: IN> Lilith Re: IN> Review: _Liber Reliquarum_ Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:39:26 EST From: ChrisNicls Subject: IN> In Nomine Over Zero So... Has anyone considered running a scaled down In Nomine? Rather than Malakites or Balseraphs or whatever, have frotlings and relievers and little angellings and demonlings. Anybody? Also, someone mentioned Stephen R. Donaldson's books as the characters fit into the various Chiors/Bands. In that case, could anyone tell me where Thomas Covenant, from _Lord Foul's Bane_ and others fits? What about other fictional characters? Chris Nichols, Shedim of Gratuitous Labeling as Diabolic ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:18:21 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Over Zero On Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 01:39:26PM -0500, ChrisNicls wrote: > So... > Has anyone considered running a scaled down In Nomine? > > Rather than Malakites or Balseraphs or whatever, have frotlings and relievers > and little angellings and demonlings. Anybody? > No, because I'm an evil munchie powergamer. > > Also, someone mentioned Stephen R. Donaldson's books as the characters fit > into the various Chiors/Bands. Yes, that was me. In that case, could anyone tell me where > Thomas Covenant, from _Lord Foul's Bane_ and others fits? Thomas Covenant does my head in, metaphorically speaking. It's possible that he's an incredibly inept Balseraph, but I prefer to think of him as a Cherub, albeit a very messed up and dissonant one. The bit in "The Power that Preserves" where he decides that saving a little girl's life is more important than saving a world is very Cherubic. Or Balseraphic, depending on your point of view. What about other > fictional characters? > Mat Cauthon from the Wheel of Time series is so obviously an Ofanite of War that it really hardly needs to be mentioned. And Moiraine is an Elohite. And Perrin and Lan are both Cherubim (all the Warders are Cherubim almost by definition). Rand is a heavily dissonant and Discordant Mercurian. Galad is a Malakite of the Sword. Elaida is a Balseraph, as can be seen from how consistently she misinterprets her Foretellings, and there are really far too many characters in those books to label them all. > Chris Nichols, Shedim of Gratuitous Labeling as Diabolic Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:10:58 +0500 From: daiv@cruzio.com (David M. Barr) Subject: Re: IN> Lilith >>>I thought it was little cuddly teddy-Djinn who lie around and let >>>the baby Lilim pet them and cuddle them and dress them up for tea >>>parties... >>> >>>And the Djinn *Need* all that attention, so... "Oh, look! How sweet! >>>she's got her first Geas!" >> {30 years later, same Lilim calls that Djinn} (lilim)"Hi. I Hvae a favor I want you to do." (Djinn) "oh, _that's_ what that is...I always assumed it was just sort of a birthmark." just a thought. - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:26:37 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith > The latter. I tend to tack bizarre histories and Roles onto my characters > as well. I'm just not happy if they don't have former mentors, fallen > boyfriends, and the like. > > (I took that city in Gehenna where they have religion and made demons grow > up there. My Habbalite of the War's history is so weird as a result*.) Heh. Fallen Boyfriends. Keros: "Dai, can you tell me something about Jelial?" Dai: "I know NOTHING of Jelial!" Keros: "But, you said.." Dai: "NOTHING. Do you hear me? He is _dead_. Dead to me, dead to the world, dead to the Symphony. He is _dead_." Keros: "I thought he worked.." Dai: "And if you _ever_ mention his name around me, so help me God, I will rend your forces apart." Keros: "Okay, okay! Sheesh. I'll make a note. No more ex-boyfriends." Yeah. Fallen Boyfriends who used to be beautiful Seraphim and become nasty Balseraphs of Factions are bad news. > > You can make the interesting in both ways, actually. It's a matter of > > point of view. I just am morally opposed to things being created fully > > formed out of the air. (Morally? Well, not MORALLY. Just am.) > > > Oh, absolutely. You can get a lot of fun out of utterly clueless > characters. Well, not clueless as such, but very different from humans, > and quite ignorant of them. I have often discovered that PCs can be utterly clueless when they have all the facts sitting right in front of them. :) > > I like small numbers of Lilim. Very small numbers. In my universe, I > > believe Saminga has a grand total of two. Thousands of Shedim, though. > > > Two? Those are _tiny_ numbers. Sounds about right. Maybe a dozen at the outside. Honestly, you can't get a geas off a dead guy, and you can't be sensuous and fun around a mass grave. And I'm sure it's really fun to work in a predominantly Shedite organization. Yick. It's fun to Vamp, but you can Vamp for Andre. You can Goth for Andre too. It's the dead bit that's the kicker. > *My abovementioned Habbalite would just find it funny. I can imagine her > sitting in some cafe somewhere, saying to her fellow Celestials "Dominic > will be really popular back home in Gehenna. They'll think he's the new > Uriel, come down to save them." Oh look, someone who WANTS a DP of Corruption. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:35:06 -0500 From: Pete Overton Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Over Zero >Has anyone considered running a scaled down In Nomine? Actually, I have long since considered scaling back the reality of Celestials in my IN stories. There are FAR fewer active on Earth then seems to be implied in the game, and generally speaking they all have loose knowledge of each other. For instance, in my stories, Clarielle (sick of hearing about her yet? :) and her counterpart demon in service of Death often have lovely conversations and debates rather than openly warring all over the place, because it would bemore hurtful to the Symphony as a whole. I also adapt a little Millennium-ish attitude in regards to higher level Angels manifesting (or even visiting) Earth. Clarielle wanders around with a Seraph of Death (or Elohite, I forget offhand) who is greviously pained by modern Earth. I don't so much scale down the characters, I just scale back their support networks and make it much more of a personal level game. Soldiers are more prominent and usually unwitting mortals who advance their respective causes in small, quiet ways. For instance, with Clarielle, being there for a compassionate nurse who has seen too much death and reassuring her that it is all for something seems to be a really small act, but that will give that nurse the strength to go on and further the kindness she shows to dying patients. A small little thing, but it resonates in the Symphony. Now, don't get me wrong, I *LOVE* a good Celestial combat as much as anyone. ::smile:: But the reality of my world is that the Symphony won't tolerate many of those, and to use a terribly cliché analogy, the more ripples you make, the more you rough up the water. I guess it is a leftover from my Vampire days when I cut most vampire populations by 66% and made them all practically know each other by name. Especially when it comes to Celestials, too many of them will disrupt the Symphony, which is presumably why Lucifer doesn't toss his entire Hellish army onto Earth. :) Each side wants to win over the Symphony, but destroying it in the process would be for nothing. Pete ============================================================= E-Mail: pover@golden.net ICQ#: 2192976 Celestially Known As Clarielle, Mercurian of Death. * * * * * * Mulder: "If someone could prove to you the existence of God, would it change you?" Scully: "Only if it had been disproven." -- "Gesthesmane", X-Files ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:38:50 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Lilith > >Yes, I have considered that change in the system, and it would probably > >be fair and work out. Or making them Geas/5 for the last three > >months just out of _spite_. :) > > > >Or say that the gestation period for a Lilim is nine weeks, instead of > >nine months, but then that defeats the purpose of Lilith being > >(quasi) human. > Obviously this is part of the Biblical thing, where Eve has to > labor to bring forth young, with work and sweat and stuff? Lilith, > never having done any of that "let's wear clothing and lie to god > and shift the blame" stuff, doesn't have all the problems... True. And Lilith is made of the generic 'stuff' that Adam was made out of. Eve and Lilith are very different beings. > Maybe they hatch. Green eggs. > > Help. I think my mind is still crosseyed... Heeheeheeheehee. :) > >But I liked the Baby Bal! It was such a goofy concept, and it was so > >cute... > > Okay, so you have baby Bals, baby Djinn, maybe even a baby Impudite or > three so they can practice their social skills. But probably no baby > Calabim and *definitely* no baby Shedim! The Baby Bals and the Baby Djinn are so cute that they can ONLY come from Hell. > > "It followed me home, sis!" > > "NO! It's dripping on the carpet! They can't be housebroken!" *LAUGH OUT LOUD* Why do I suddenly have this image of a young child-like Lilim trying to hide the baby Shedite that followed her home in her room? "No, you can't keep that here! It has to go!" "But MOM!" > >Yes, it was little cuddly teddy-Djinn who allow themselves to be cuddled > >by little Lilim who are just learning how to geas. Since Djunn need all > >that attenion to those they have attuned to, it worked out well. > >And sort of sick and twisted. But well. > > We like sick and twisted, remember? *nodnodnod* > >>(Though you can "cross-breed" with different Band/Choirs, in official > >>canon (not in Em's, IIRC? Unless you're a Lilim..). But it comes out > >>as *one* Band/Choir, not a mixture of 2-14!) > > > >No no no, you can interbreed. You just don't get a cross breed, ie, a > >Mix. You don't get a half Impudite and half Djinn. You either get an > >Impudite or a Djinn. And Lilim can never produce Lilim. > > You can interbreed? But what about the Shedim breeding vats?! Don't > tell me you could drop some poor Servitor into the middle of one of > those in your universe, and make it *breed* with them... Well, hey. I haven't ever thought of it that way, but what else does Dr. Vapula do when he gets bored and ornery? "It's time to do Experiments in Demon Breeding. You, you, and you, come with me." And he'll dunk a few head first into the breeding vats, and see what he comes up with. So what if the Forces of the servitor get a little... gunky. That's okay. If the result was interesting, then the experiment was useful. > >Or an old hand scanner, for that matter. Yeeeek. > > Um. Hm. Does an old "attach it to your dot-matrix printer" Apple > scanner count? > Yep. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:39:41 -0500 From: Pete Overton Subject: Re: IN> "More, More!" he cries.. Hi Patrick, > Well, that'd be me. I see no reason to fool around with the IN >structure, which works pretty fine as I see it. I'm running a game at >the moment, and I don't think I've made a single change from canon or >the standard rules. Oh. :) Actually I was referring to dumping the "new" Archangels and retroactively using the "traditional" ones. I am trying to get a list of real-world based Archangels to use in the game in lieu of the "new" ones that they made up. Sorry about the confusion. Although I usually don't divert from canon too much myself, I do tend to make a broad change here and there that doesn't affect anything but setting, and barely that (eg. cut population levels). ::shrug:: Otherwise, as you say, I don't tend to play around too much with it unless I am doing something RADICALLY different (eg. Dark Victory or whatever and no it is not mine, I mean it is an example of a radical change :). Pete ============================================================= E-Mail: pover@golden.net ICQ#: 2192976 Celestially Known As Clarielle, Mercurian of Death. * * * * * * Mulder: "If someone could prove to you the existence of God, would it change you?" Scully: "Only if it had been disproven." -- "Gesthesmane", X-Files ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:55:45 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: IN> Herding clueless PCs On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > I have often discovered that PCs can be utterly clueless when they have > all the facts sitting right in front of them. :) Amen, sister. Which is why a great many of my adventures turn into rambling affairs of seemingly non-related events as PCs grasp at straws, the NPCs advance their plans, and I try desperately to involve the two players who seem hellbent (literally, in the case of the inactive Ofanite) on becoming lumps on a log. *sigh* I probably have too many players. If I had my druthers, I'd get rid of two of them (the aforementioned lumps), bringing the group down to five. But they're my friends, and they haven't done anything to warrant a kicking-out, so..... Venting complete. Catharsis is my friend. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:03:54 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith On Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 03:26:37PM -0500, Emily Dresner wrote: > > Yeah. Fallen Boyfriends who used to be beautiful Seraphim and become > nasty Balseraphs of Factions are bad news. > (What's wrong with Balseraphs of Factions?) Mithredath is ignorant of what happened to her boyfriend, an Ofanite of the Wind. I amn't, because I made the character (Mithredath was actually a spin-off who I ended up preferring). Since Janus throws a fit every time she mentions his name, and since he was last seen captured by demons, she suspects that nothing very nice happened to him. I think she'd react differently to Daimon, though, because one of the things she's worried about is that he (no, not Daimon) might be soul-dead. > > > Oh, absolutely. You can get a lot of fun out of utterly clueless > > characters. Well, not clueless as such, but very different from humans, > > and quite ignorant of them. > > I have often discovered that PCs can be utterly clueless when they have > all the facts sitting right in front of them. :) > It goes in cycles with me. I tend to be most clueless when I'm sitting at the table. About a minute after leaving it, things start clicking in my head. That's one of the reasons I'm bad at LARPs. > > > > > Two? Those are _tiny_ numbers. > > Sounds about right. Maybe a dozen at the outside. Honestly, you can't > get a geas off a dead guy, You can get geasa off the people who want him/her dead. and you can't be sensuous and fun around a mass > grave. Is that a challenge? And I'm sure it's really fun to work in a predominantly Shedite > organization. > It depends on how twisted the Lilite is, which is probably very twisted in the case of someone working for Saminga. They'd probably have Murderous or very bizarre Needs, and be very deeply shunned. > (I took that city in Gehenna where they have religion and made demons grow > up there. My Habbalite of the War's history is so weird as a result*.) > > > *My abovementioned Habbalite would just find it funny. I can imagine her > > sitting in some cafe somewhere, saying to her fellow Celestials "Dominic > > will be really popular back home in Gehenna. They'll think he's the new > > Uriel, come down to save them." > > Oh look, someone who WANTS a DP of Corruption. :) > Two words, joined by a connective. Balseraphs and religion. The theological arguments they can come up with would make Servitors of Destiny cry, and Seraphim feel lightheaded as they listen to someone believing wholeheartedly something obviously ridiculous. (Have you ever played a Seraph, and then resonated on a Balseraph? I'm waiting for the day I get a check digit of 6 and then fail the Will roll to disbelieve the Balseraph.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:19:30 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs On Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 03:55:45PM -0500, Casca wrote: > > > I have often discovered that PCs can be utterly clueless when they have > > all the facts sitting right in front of them. :) > > Amen, sister. Which is why a great many of my adventures turn into > rambling affairs of seemingly non-related events as PCs grasp at straws, > the NPCs advance their plans, Not having any GMing experience myself, I haven't experienced it from that side, though I recall various incidents where I had to point out the blindingly obvious to other players, and indeed other characters, who proceed to ignore me. and I try desperately to involve the two > players who seem hellbent (literally, in the case of the inactive > Ofanite) on becoming lumps on a log. > Inactive Ofanim. Adam, you remember Mark "Move, don't act" Swift, don't you? Like that travesty when Furfur was soul-killing the Old Guy and he was still dithering about what side Nicole was on. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:42:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilith At 8:27 AM -0500 3/10/98, John J Maurer wrote: >Speaking of the Biblical thing. There was some suggestion earlier in this >thread that spoke of Lilith having to go through labor to keep the numbers >down. Apocraphally speaking, the Lilith of stories gave birth to 100 demons >every day. I *think* it may have been 200 in some stories (100 Boys and 100 >Girls). Thats one busy momma. Frog eggs. Gotta be. No, I am *not* following that mental image to the logical conclusion, I am NOT. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:38:36 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > Inactive Ofanim. Adam, you remember Mark "Move, don't act" Swift, don't > you? Like that travesty when Furfur was soul-killing the Old Guy and he > was still dithering about what side Nicole was on. Mine is worse. I told him "Do something -- anything -- or take dissonance." He couldn't think of anything to do. I slapped him with dissonance. He seemed surprised. What do you folks do when you have players who Just Don't Get It (tm)? - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:38:48 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs At 15:55 10/03/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > >> I have often discovered that PCs can be utterly clueless when they have >> all the facts sitting right in front of them. :) > >Amen, sister. Which is why a great many of my adventures turn into >rambling affairs of seemingly non-related events as PCs grasp at straws, >the NPCs advance their plans, and I try desperately to involve the two >players who seem hellbent (literally, in the case of the inactive >Ofanite) on becoming lumps on a log. > OK, becoming a lump may not be helpful ;-) But I have noticed that some players are more interested in the RP parts of the game than in the problem solving, and actually prefer to be led a bit by helpful NPCs. I think sometimes you have to design sessions around what you know the players seem to like doing. So if you know they aren't really into tortuous plots, think of ways to make the tortuous plots more accessible (depending on how much of a challenge you want things to be, and what your gamestyle is. A cinematic game will have to follow cinematic idioms (if that makes sense)). >*sigh* I probably have too many players. If I had my druthers, I'd get >rid of two of them (the aforementioned lumps), bringing the group down to >five. 7 is a /lot/ to my mind. Respect ;) I have enough trouble herding 3 (admittedly cool, and very active) players together soemtimes. Fortunately they are patient and seem to enjoy listening to what each other are doing seperately. jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:46:30 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lilith Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Frog eggs. Gotta be. > > No, I am *not* following that mental image to the logical conclusion, > I am NOT. It *can't* be any worse than the way the daughters of Eve have to do it. (On the other hand, female hyenas have it even worse.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:34:12 +0200 From: Ijon Tichy Subject: Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament At 19/01/98 (so I take my time, so what?) , Em Dresner wrote: [discussing Jesus] >I HIGHLY recommend the small novella, "Behold the Man" by Michael >Moorcock. (Yes, the guy who wrote Elric.) If you want to do Jesus >Christ stuff in your campaign, hop over to amazon.com and order it *NOW*. >*prodprodprod* It's about 150 pages, not very long, but deep as hell. If >you don't, you're missing out big-time. Hold on a minute. I have here a Sci-Fi anthology (by Don Wollheim, ed.) from the mid-sixties featuring a longish short story named "Behold the Man". A most exquisite piece at that. Not the 150 page thing though. Now, the plot (the constant references to the woman in the present) DOES lack a bit more development in the background (the present), so I begin to suspect it was FIRST a novella, and THEN also sold off as a short story to Wollheim. I wonder. Anyone? >I also read Norman Mailer's "The Gospel According to the Son". In no way >as good of a book, and one has to deal with Mailer's pretenousness, which >gets to be trying at times, especially at the end. I recommend getting it >out of the library just to read Satan's conversation with Christ, because >he certainly does justice to that bit, but save your $$. As for that, let me counter with a warm recommendation of Jose Saramago's "The Gospel According to Jesus Christ". An excellent novel depicting the Jesus story from an omniscient yet personal viewpoint, with superb storytelling and some fascinating dialogs. I even made the effort and dug up the ISBN for you (all?) : Hardcover: 0151367000 Paperback: 0156001411 - -- Ijon Tichy Sailing the 'net in the only e-mail: ijon@forum2.org Space Barrel known to man. Homepage: http://www.forum2.org/ijon MOO: VotSB, telnet://forum2.org:7777 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:26:26 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilith At 3:38 PM -0500 3/10/98, Emily Dresner wrote: >> Obviously this is part of the Biblical thing, where Eve has to >> labor to bring forth young, with work and sweat and stuff? Lilith, >> never having done any of that "let's wear clothing and lie to god >> and shift the blame" stuff, doesn't have all the problems... > >True. And Lilith is made of the generic 'stuff' that Adam was made out >of. Eve and Lilith are very different beings. In the stricter sense, certainly. (I have no idea if Eve was cloned in the IN canon. I suspect it's CAoDaU.) >> Maybe they hatch. Green eggs. >> Help. I think my mind is still crosseyed... > >Heeheeheeheehee. :) Sadist! >>Okay, so you have baby Bals, baby Djinn, maybe even a baby Impudite or >>three so they can practice their social skills. But probably no baby >>Calabim and *definitely* no baby Shedim! > >The Baby Bals and the Baby Djinn are so cute that they can ONLY come from >Hell. Definitely. Like Smurfs. (Didn't you know they were demonlings?) >>"It followed me home, sis!" >> >>"NO! It's dripping on the carpet! They can't be housebroken!" > >*LAUGH OUT LOUD* > >Why do I suddenly have this image of a young child-like Lilim trying to >hide the baby Shedite that followed her home in her room? "No, you can't >keep that here! It has to go!" > >"But MOM!" Is this where the little Lilim are in their schoolroom, and one hangs a little rubber Shedite on a string over her sister's shoulder to hear her scream? >>>>(Though you can "cross-breed" with different Band/Choirs, in official >>>>canon (not in Em's, IIRC? Unless you're a Lilim..). But it comes out >>>>as *one* Band/Choir, not a mixture of 2-14!) >>> >>>No no no, you can interbreed. You just don't get a cross breed, ie, a >>>Mix. You don't get a half Impudite and half Djinn. You either get an >>>Impudite or a Djinn. And Lilim can never produce Lilim. >> >>You can interbreed? But what about the Shedim breeding vats?! Don't >>tell me you could drop some poor Servitor into the middle of one of >>those in your universe, and make it *breed* with them... > >Well, hey. I haven't ever thought of it that way, but what else does >Dr. Vapula do when he gets bored and ornery? "It's time to do Experiments >in Demon Breeding. You, you, and you, come with me." Em, this doesn not help me wash my head of that mental image you read about... >And he'll dunk a few head first into the breeding vats, and see what he >comes up with. So what if the Forces of the servitor get a little... >gunky. That's okay. If the result was interesting, then the experiment >was useful. Of course. Obviously. Never trust a Prince who calls himself an Archangel half the time. >>>Or an old hand scanner, for that matter. Yeeeek. >> >>Um. Hm. Does an old "attach it to your dot-matrix printer" Apple >>scanner count? > >Yep. :) Then hand-tracing is harder. But probably less smudgie. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:30:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs At 4:38 PM -0500 3/10/98, Casca wrote: >On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > >> Inactive Ofanim. Adam, you remember Mark "Move, don't act" Swift, don't >> you? Like that travesty when Furfur was soul-killing the Old Guy and he >> was still dithering about what side Nicole was on. > >Mine is worse. I told him "Do something -- anything -- or take >dissonance." He couldn't think of anything to do. I slapped him with >dissonance. He seemed surprised. > >What do you folks do when you have players who Just Don't Get It (tm)? IIRC, *some* people have them nearly imprisoned by Demon Princes.... Dissonance works. "If you don't want to act, why aren't you a Djinn? Or a Cherub?" Sometimes I wind up feeding fellow players lines. I hate myself afterwards. *sigh* - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:30:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilith At 4:46 PM -0500 3/10/98, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> Frog eggs. Gotta be. >> >> No, I am *not* following that mental image to the logical conclusion, >> I am NOT. > >It *can't* be any worse than the way the daughters of Eve have to >do it. More painful? No. More alien and therefore inherently more scary in some ways? Yes. >(On the other hand, female hyenas have it even worse.) .... I'm sure Michael points this out to Dominique. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:12:16 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs > >What do you folks do when you have players who Just Don't Get It (tm)? > > IIRC, *some* people have them nearly imprisoned by Demon Princes.... *whistle utterly innocently* - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:50:39 -0600 From: Christopher Nichols Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Over Zero >>> Kevin Walsh 03/10/98 01:18PM >>> >On Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 01:39:26PM -0500, ChrisNicls wrote: >> So... >> Has anyone considered running a scaled down In Nomine? >> >> Rather than Malakites or Balseraphs or whatever, have frotlings and relievers >> and little angellings and demonlings. Anybody? >> >No, because I'm an evil munchie powergamer. Well, yeah, whatever. It was just a goofy idea, like Rot-13 Superiors or what have you. >>In that case, could anyone tell me where >> Thomas Covenant, from _Lord Foul's Bane_ and others fits? > >Thomas Covenant does my head in, metaphorically speaking. It's possible >that he's an incredibly inept Balseraph, but I prefer to think of him as a >Cherub, albeit a very messed up and dissonant one. The bit in "The Power >that Preserves" where he decides that saving a little girl's life is more >important than saving a world is very Cherubic. Or Balseraphic, depending >on your point of view. Yeah, after reading the first book and half of the second, my brain started running out my ears. Anyhow, I'd go with the Balseraph model...he lies to himself...conitnuously. Or maybe a Habbalah, as they also run on self-deception, but their version is more self-destructive. Maybe he resonates on himself to the emotional tune of self-loathing? >> What about other >> fictional characters? > >Mat Cauthon from the Wheel of Time series is so obviously an Ofanite of >War that it really hardly needs to be mentioned. And Moiraine is an >Elohite. And Perrin and Lan are both Cherubim (all the Warders are >Cherubim almost by definition). Rand is a heavily dissonant and Discordant >Mercurian. Galad is a Malakite of the Sword. Elaida is a Balseraph, as can >be seen from how consistently she misinterprets her Foretellings, and >there are really far too many characters in those books to label them all. From the Chronicles of Narnia, Peter seems to be a Malakim, Edmund I'd tag as a Redeemed Elohim, Susan seems to be an Elohim of Novalis, Lucy is ... a Mercurian? It has been a while since I read them. Ashlan is Yves or occasionally Michael, while his enemy Tash is Saminga, if Saminga were a Calabite. Reepchepkeep (the warrior mouse) is ... umm, Malakim of Jordi? That seems odd... >Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. Chris Nichols, Frotling of Silly Sig.Files ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:34:37 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Over Zero In Nomine Over Zero? Is that some sort of equation? In Nomine - --------- = Fnord. 0 }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, web pages beyond belief http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.antarctic-press.com/ - Antarctic Press Web Site http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/acupunct/ - Anatomical Acupuncture http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/milkmaid/ - The Magnificent Milkmaid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:31:08 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> In pursuit of a Word >> My players all play angelic characters and are based in Boston, MA (I >> live in NH so Boston was an easy choice). One of the characters, >> Adrian, a Seraph of Flowers, is working toward becoming the Angel of >> Home Baked Goodness. > >Clearly competing with Malik, Bright Lilim of Flower, working on becoming >the Angel of Marijuana Brownies. :) > >Now all she has to do is feed them, laced with Magic Hash, to her >terminally angsty brother. "Look, they're GOOD for you! You'll love >them! You trust me, dontcha? I know you Need to trust me..." I don't know. Sometimes Marijuana is controlled more by Mammon and Marc than Flurity and Novalis. Is the Geas void if they can't keep the brownie down? - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:54:09 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Over Zero >In Nomine Over Zero? Is that some sort of equation? > >In Nomine >--------- = Fnord. > 0 > >}:-{D So then the differential must be Robert Anton Wilson. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:51:48 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> Lilith At 04:42 PM 10/03/98 -0500, you wrote: > Actually, though Lilith is never canonically referred to as being picky, I imagine that someone of her character would be, people who have a strong sense of identity and self worth tend to be very reserved in there decisions, think about the average teenage girl, say sixteen, believing she has every right to an eighteen year old football player, and now imagine the very powerful and extant Lilith, who could possibly reach her standards, Lucifer, God?, nah, Lucifer is too creepy, and God, who knows if he can even get it up? from then on asexual reproduction seemed logical to me, all though that's not to say Lilith doesn't sleep around, IMO she fits perfectly in to a Melrose Place setting ('I got to run Yves, Xena and Gabrielle are expecting me in the Far Marches!') but no way would she take Forces from them. Oh yeah, you want sick and twisted, imagine a Lilim's first day of school, 'Oh mister shedite, I'm having trouble eviscerating this old man murderer here, can you bring that chainsaw over and show me how you do it, I'll give one of your feet a foot rub!' > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:53:23 -0600 From: John L Veazey Subject: Re: IN> Review: _Liber Reliquarum_ hmmm...I've been thinking and lurking some more. The basic book did attract me more, than the past few supplements have. I have to say that the flavor, while not losing anything in certain aspects has lost a little bit of flair that I loved about the main book. I kinda miss the world view that "Good Omens" gave to the game, that I seem to recall was suggested reading in the main book. A little less of the 'straight' stuff for me please. More fun. More game. More flair. Less 'straight'. Maybe a little 'waviness' or 'curviness' or even 'wobbliness'. Note: This will in no way keep me from buying any supplements, and is my own personal opinion. *Please* don't flame me. Vz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:46:04 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Herding clueless PCs On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Jo Hart wrote: > >Amen, sister. Which is why a great many of my adventures turn into > >rambling affairs of seemingly non-related events as PCs grasp at straws, > >the NPCs advance their plans, and I try desperately to involve the two > >players who seem hellbent (literally, in the case of the inactive > >Ofanite) on becoming lumps on a log. > > OK, becoming a lump may not be helpful ;-) But I have noticed that some > players are more interested in the RP parts of the game than in the problem > solving, and actually prefer to be led a bit by helpful NPCs. I think > sometimes you have to design sessions around what you know the players seem > to like doing. So if you know they aren't really into tortuous plots, think > of ways to make the tortuous plots more accessible (depending on how much > of a challenge you want things to be, and what your gamestyle is. A > cinematic game will have to follow cinematic idioms (if that makes sense)). See, this is why many of my adventures turn into rambling, seemingly unrelated sequences: if the players won't follow the plot, I have to involve them through RP. This, of course, means a detour, because if I use it to shove them back along the plot path -immediately-, they'll recognize it as GM heavy-handedness and rebel. So I have to be surreptitious about it, which takes time. Eventually, the RP leads them back to the plot, usually in a manner from which they cannot extricate themselves cleanly. But it's a pain in the arse because it's more work for me, effort which would be better spent thinking up ways to involve the entire party instead of just one PC. Did you ever see the Stallone movie _Copland_? If you haven't, do. It's an excellent illustration of how my games run: the protagonists stumble around confused until Act 3, Scene 3, in which all the disparate elements are brought together and their inter-relatedness made clear. > >*sigh* I probably have too many players. If I had my druthers, I'd get > >rid of two of them (the aforementioned lumps), bringing the group down to > >five. > > 7 is a /lot/ to my mind. Respect ;) I have enough trouble herding 3 > (admittedly cool, and very active) players together soemtimes. I started out with only 5, but they were the -wrong- 5. The other 2 were rbought in to lend some structure to the group, and they've done that admirably: the Kyrio of Jean ties them all together so that no one is left in the dark, and the Malakite of Janus is a gung-ho, "let's go blow things up and get stuff done" type. It's the lumps that are the problems. The Ofanite is a Creationer, so it's difficult to crack down on him. The only control I have over him is that during the last adventure, he was foolish with his vessel and lost his Role due to police scrutiny (never, NEVER kick an Impudite of the Media in the chest and expect to get away with it if she's seen your face); to get it fixed, he had to swear to another AA. The Malakite of the Sword, on the other hand.....well, let us just say that Laurence learned his Last Lesson quite well, and is about to teach it to his servant. > Fortunately > they are patient and seem to enjoy listening to what each other are doing > seperately. Gee, it must be nice to have a PC group that actually works together. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #672 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.