From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Mar 13 22:04:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12260 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:04:57 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA29086 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:55:23 -0600 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:55:23 -0600 Message-Id: <199803140355.VAA29086@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #677 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, March 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 677 In this digest: Re: IN>lost Forces IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) IN> Advice on politics and how not to do it IN> Re: Gabriel Ratoinal? Re: IN> Hardcover version of In Nomine Re: IN> Hardcover version of In Nomine Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) IN> Artifact Cost IN> Discordant Questions [Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor] [Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor] Re: [Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor] IN> Bodies IN> Re: IN- Hardcover version of In Nomine Re: [Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor] Re: [Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor] Re: IN> Discordant Questions Re: IN> Bodies Re: IN> Bodies Re: IN> Discordant Questions Re: IN> Discordant Questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:33:53 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN>lost Forces David M. Barr wrote: > > When a Character loses all of the Etheral force, he loses All intelligence > and Precision. What if he only loses some of his Etheral forces? Does his > intellignce and precision go down as a result? does he lose skills as well? If your forces go down the associated attributes go down as well. However, skills and songs (basically resource levels) do not go down simply because of damaged forces. Over time though the character might have forgotten how to do unused skills. Angels generally do not have perfect memory and there is a lot to remember. As a side note look in Night Music for the Old Guy. He is a Senechal with only nine forces, but lots of skills and songs. This is more like what a really old Angel that has lost forces would look like, IMO. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:45:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Jessop Subject: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Hart, Joanna wrote: > You do realise that this also applies to most English people? ;-) Is the > entire UK a tether to dark comedy? I think we should be told! I disagree. Kobal purely as described in the IN core rules is funny in the same way that, say 'Itchy and Scratchy' from the Simpsons are funny. Cause pain. Laugh at pain. Woo-hoo. IMC, Kobal is more witty, more observant... more funny. He doesn't hurt people and laugh at them: he points out the ways in which they are already pathetic and contemptible, and laughs at _those_. He doesn't lie to people to point out how gullible they are. He finds something daft that they believe, tells them the truth, and watches them fall apart. He isn't interested in demonstrating that he can outwit the other Princes. He is interested in showing that a retarded slug has an even chance of outwitting the other Princes. Basically, he doesn't often have to _do_ anything. He watches, and every time anyone makes a stupid mistake, he's there with a witty one-liner. But he looks at Wilde and thinks 'I wish I was that clever'. And he looks at Monty Python and goes 'huh?'. Because Dark Humour has its limits, and both British and American humour go beyond it. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:56:53 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Advice on politics and how not to do it My Dear Yael, In view of your recent communique, I feel that the time has come to remedy a gap in your learning for which I take total and unrelieved responsibility. I refer of course to inter-superior politics. Firstly I shall repeat that it is our responsibility to show neither fear nor favour and to treat each case on its individual merits and flaws. Try to keep this in mind, because although in an ideal world all angels would abide by it, in practice many do not. I do not have space here to go into details of politics between our Master and all of the other archangels so I shall instead concentrate on that which seems most immediately relevant and hope to discuss the rest at some future date. I would also encourage you to seek opinions of the other members of your triad, as they will likely be more aware of developments or significant personality clashes in the local area or on the corporeal plane in general than will I. War. A word that can inspire a pained expression in even the most objective of Elohim of Judgement. I shall attempt here to explain how this came to be, and some of the consequences. You will remember from our legal histories that the Archangel of War took the defence stand on charges that translate out of legalese as vainglory and hubris, but Dominic adjourned the trial and dismissed the case following divine intervention. I regret to say that even before this case, there was a history of misunderstandings between our organisations. These seem to be due to irreconcilable differences in philosophy. We seek the truth. They seek victory. Common sense dictates that these are aspects of the same war and indeed that our view is the more-encompassing one, but when dealing with servitors of War, remember that when one is trained as a soldier, it is natural to see everything as a battle to be won. Angels of War are also encouraged to be aggressive and to develop combat reflexes. It is instinctive for them to apply the same instincts which serve so well on the battlefield to a triad, which is of course nonsensical because we are not their enemies. Whilst attacking a triad physically or actively attempting to prevent us from discharging our duties would be a cause for immediate arrest, it is sadly not uncommon for these angels to walk as close to the line as they dare in other ways. This seems to be partly a matter of bravado and peer pressure, but is no less common because of it. One would think that Michael would advise them to be co-operative, were he truly concerned for the smooth running of celestial affairs. Speaking as an onlooker from outside their organisation, I can only say that I have the impression that he tacitly encourages it. This, however, is not your problem and not for you to take up as a personal crusade. I hope I am making this absolutely clear, Yael. Remember your duties and do not be distracted from them, however you are tempted. I fear that relations between Judgement and War have seldom been worse, at least here in the celestial realm, and it saddens me to say so. Since the War trial, Michael seems to have solidified his personal distaste for Judgement. We, on the other hand, are perhaps more used to the notion that taking the defence stand should not be taken as a personal insult. No-one is above the law. Wiser legal heads than mine have observed that since the trial ended with neither an acquittal nor a punishment, the charges are technically still on the table and unproven. In practice it seems that since the Almighty appeared as a witness for the defence, our Master has determined to let the matter lie until such a time as God chooses to brief the prosecution council as well. Despite what they may think, our Master does not require that past instances of bad blood be taken into account and in fact demands that they are not. Do not be drawn into discussions of perceived insults that may have happened several centuries ago unless they are particularly relevant. I would encourage you to remember that being an angel in service to War is not in itself heresy. However rude and annoying and disruptive some of these angels may be, bear in mind that their valour and skill at arms have won great victories for the host and will likely continue to do so. The aggression that they may show to you is a pale shadow of that which they reserve for the 'Other Side'. Or so one would hope. With regards to your incisive comments regarding your local seneschal, need I remind you that 'Snap judgement' is not an angelic word? I shall note that one must of course voice concerns at what appears to be inappropriate behaviour, but you do also have the option of asking questions to ascertain the reasons behind what you have observed. I fear that my message may reach you too late to be of use in your immediate circumstances, but hope that you will have time to peruse it and consider it's contents at your leisure. I look forwards to hearing how you progress. Yours, Gregor Postscriptum. It was kind of you to convey Gerda's regards. I have enclosed a note for her which I will impose on you, if I might, to pass on. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:31:29 From: "CA Smith" Subject: IN> Re: Gabriel Ratoinal? >I would like to think that my AA's would be a little smarter than that. >Setting an angel to fall isn't a wise move. It lowers morale and wastes >resources. IMO, Gabriel would send an Elohite who wouldn't have the >Malakite's moral compunctions. Let the tool be suited the job, > >Armand This surely would be a first (well in a long time) for Gabriel to make a rational decision like this. Chris Balseraph of Ralph Ps Paul us angels of Ralph ought to get together some time and have a party. Ooops, now I'm getting Dissonance!!! "Sodomy non sapiens," said Albert under his breath. "What does that mean?" "Means I'm buggered if I know." - -- Mort and Albert are facing a problem (Terry Pratchett, Mort) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 98 12:15 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Hardcover version of In Nomine > Im new to the In Nomine game and I would love to get my hands on a >hardcover version of the core book. My question is...are there any >left? Or do you have any way of knowing? SJGames catalog ordering form still shows both hardcover versions, and doesn't have a "low stock" indicator on either, so you should be able to order it through any reasonable gaming store. Or you can order it directly from SJGames, but then you'll have to pay postage, and it may be slower than ordering it through a local store -- mine usually gets special orders within a week, if it's something that's in-stock at the distributor. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:25:55 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Hardcover version of In Nomine >Angel of 420 > >"You know, they say that Fire is all-consuming. But then again, it >always manages to leave some resin for you to scrape and pack in your >bowl. Thank God for small wonders. Wanna hit?" > >Eli, to a Servitor of Gabriel, at my live action In Nomine game. Man, I gotta get in that game. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:47:28 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) > I disagree. Kobal purely as described in the IN core rules is funny in the > same way that, say 'Itchy and Scratchy' from the Simpsons are funny. > > Cause pain. Laugh at pain. Woo-hoo. It's not so much cause the pain, as knowing that it's just going to happen eventually. The trick is to be there at the right time and take advantage of it. "Every human being possesses the capacity for universal evil and to create violence. Humor is latent in everything, waiting for violence or some other catalyst driven by humans to unleash it upon the world. Even your own misfortune should be humorous. Things are not going well, and take heart in that they are only just going to get worse. The worse things get, the funnier things are." [clip] Yeah, I agree with the rest of this. It's very Kobalish. Remember that Kobal is intelligent, witty, educated, and all that other good stuff. And black as hell - no pun intended. All that good black caustic humor comes right from the source. But above all, he is an Impudite. He loves humanity more then humanity itself. He loves to watch humanity fall apart. And hey, it only takes a little prodding. He is not a Calabite, he doesn't need to hurt people. Besides, what's the point? There is no one left to laugh if everyone is dead. Humilate, shame, embarrass, and emotionally scar, sure! But a corpse does not laugh. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:30:12 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Mowery Subject: Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > > > I disagree. Kobal purely as described in the IN core rules is funny in the > > same way that, say 'Itchy and Scratchy' from the Simpsons are funny. > > > > Cause pain. Laugh at pain. Woo-hoo. > > It's not so much cause the pain, as knowing that it's just going to > happen eventually. The trick is to be there at the right time and take > advantage of it. Yes. It's just easier to know when the pain will occur if you're causing it. But pain isn't everything. There's also humiliation, embarrassment, discomfort, and horrible timing. And sarcasm and irony. > "Every human being possesses the capacity for universal evil and to > create violence. Humor is latent in everything, waiting for violence or > some other catalyst driven by humans to unleash it upon the world. Even > your own misfortune should be humorous. Things are not going well, and > take heart in that they are only just going to get worse. The worse > things get, the funnier things are." > > [clip] > > Yeah, I agree with the rest of this. It's very Kobalish. Remember that > Kobal is intelligent, witty, educated, and all that other good stuff. > And black as hell - no pun intended. All that good black caustic humor > comes right from the source. But above all, he is an Impudite. He loves > humanity more then humanity itself. He loves to watch humanity fall > apart. And hey, it only takes a little prodding. I'd say that his love of people goes beyond even loving to see them fall apart. Consider that "evil" in In Nomine isn't necessarily wanting the worst for everyone, just wanting your vision imprinted on the Symphony rather than the ineffable plan of God. So Kobal sees that people are suffering on earth, some of them suffering a lot, and thinks to himself "well, if I could teach them to laugh at misfortune, they'd all be a lot happier." So he sets out to do so and all of a sudden he's a demon because the ineffable plan says that humans aren't supposed to enjoy suffering. And it's easier to make people callous and hardened to their own suffering and the suffering of others if you are desensitized to it through overexposure.... Kevin "Professor Bobo" Mowery_________________________www.io.com/~profbobo "The small one is too small, the large one too large, and the other just right . . . but I can't reach it." --Russian proverb **See _The Seven Stars_ MSTing at www.io.com/~profbobo** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:14:22 -0500 From: "Mark McKenzie" Subject: Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) Emily Dresner wrote: > - -snip- > > Yeah, I agree with the rest of this. It's very Kobalish. Remember that > Kobal is intelligent, witty, educated, and all that other good stuff. > And black as hell - no pun intended. All that good black caustic humor > comes right from the source. I don't think that there is *any* humor that isn't the result of pain. We had a huge IN OOC conflict over the lack of an AA of Humor (as opposed to Joy or Laughter); I successfully defied the group to identify a joke that didn't have pain of *some* sort at its heart. Their best attempt was the "pun", which I refuted as "pain directly applied to the hearer". If it don't hurt, it ain't funny. "Everything's funny, as long as it happens to someone else" - Will Rodgers. - -- Mark McKenzie (maybe this is why I'm an Impudite of Kobal) E-mail: markadv@kinekom.com ICQ 7946364 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:09:49 EST From: WCLove Subject: Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) In a message dated 98-03-13 15:40:31 EST, you write: << I'd say that his love of people goes beyond even loving to see them fall apart. Consider that "evil" in In Nomine isn't necessarily wanting the worst for everyone, just wanting your vision imprinted on the Symphony rather than the ineffable plan of God. So Kobal sees that people are suffering on earth, some of them suffering a lot, and thinks to himself "well, if I could teach them to laugh at misfortune, they'd all be a lot happier." So he sets out to do so and all of a sudden he's a demon because the ineffable plan says that humans aren't supposed to enjoy suffering. >> I'm new to this list, but I must say that I agree with this statement totally. Evil in this world seems to me to be separation from the Symphony, and a willingness to believe your vision of the Symphony is superior to God's. Kobal may mean well (in a demonic way), but his vision is different from God's and he puts it above the real Symphony. Thus, he is evil. Remember the old chestnut. . ."the road to hell is paved with good intentions." WCLove@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:42:30 -0500 From: "Mark McKenzie" Subject: Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) WCLove wrote: > > > Remember the old chestnut. . ."the road to hell is paved with good > intentions." > Actually, it's paved with telephone solicitors, but we know what you mean. - -- Mark McKenzie E-mail: markadv@kinekom.com ICQ 7946364 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:57:31 -0800 From: Drake Subject: IN> Artifact Cost Something I have thought was a bit off was the cost of Celestial Artifacts. According to the rules, the general price for a Celestial Artifact is 3 points per level of the song in it. Such as a Relic/6 that has the Corporeal Song of Healing in it would cost 18 character points. Why buy a Relic with that song in it for 18 points when you could buy the Corporeal Song of Healing/6 for 6 character points? Just like the Fiery Sword.. 3 points per leve, Power equal to the level, - -2 accuracy, lasts for Celestial Force minutes per Essence, and can do Soul Damage when user is in Celestial Form.. Now Claws, as an example, cost 1 point per level, Power equal to level, accuracy +1 for levels 1-3, acc 0 for 4+, last for Check Digit Hours for 1 essence, and can do Soul Hits when in Celestial Form, plus, unlike the Fiery Sword, you can't lose your claws. So my suggestion, and this has been discussed by others and agreed apon, that Relics should cost an average of 1 point per level of the song in it; 2 if the user is attuned to it as per Corporeal Artifacts, and 3 if attuned to it and it gives a skill bonus. This makes much more sense to me, but I would like to see what others think about it. Amon-Nahashel "Drake" Seraph of War and Fluffy Bunny Shoes! PS: My Superior right up is being reworked given the responces I got, and I'll repost the updated version here within a few days. I do want to say thank you for all that replied to it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:03:32 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Discordant Questions I'd been paging through the APG's Choir-specific Discords, and ran across "Evil Warnming", that Malakite Discord that lets you know there are Demons in the Area while letting them know there's a Malakite in that direction. And as I read the description, I noticed that while it says that it detects the demons "in range" it gives no mention as to how large that range is. And secondly, other than the reaction penalty, and fifteen extra points to the character, I couldn't find any difference between Evil Warning/1 and Evil Warning/6. Second, I've found meyself in the rather unenviable position of playing a Bright Lilim struck with the Aura Discord, due to a bad Judgement. Now the Aura discord does say Angels can tell the subject's a Demon if she belongs to the band of Lilim...but what about the Choir? = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Legion, Party of Six Thousand. Smoking or non? ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:22:27 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: [Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------44FE590D36DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A little something that got shot back and forth between ArchBeth and my sometimes humble self..... - --------------44FE590D36DE Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 207.204.116.154 (okcnas3-46.ionet.net [207.204.116.154]) by mail.ionet.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17641; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:37:08 -0600 (CST) Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:37:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <35083997.6943@ionet.net> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:38:13 -0600 From: tom timberlake X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor References: <199803112227_MC2-366B-87B8@compuserve.com> <19980312114411.40902@RedBrick.DCU.IE> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > >Actually, though they don't know it, they are playing both. IN is the > >Bright Umbra that the Werewolves I run almost never have anything to do > >with. *g* They just had a run in with Gabriel, who almost made everyone > >toast--she said something like "so many here who are cruel", then raised > >her hands to heaven and called down a HUGE column of fire from Heaven on > >everyone in the area-- > > Go, Gaby, go! > > >Shadow Lord's jaw did some serious floor scraping, since he is my IN > >player in a one-on-one PBM game---we talk out moves at the start or end > >of each weeks WtA game---so he knew exactly what had just happened and > >how lucky they were to not have lost anyone, though one survived only by > >the power of the healers in the party. > > This sounds great. Utterly great. I applaud! > AND it all hangs together, since the Bright Umbra is defined, as much as it can be said to be defined when left vague and general-idea, as being as place of concepts, ideas--in short, of Words! So the Celestial plane is the Bright Umbra, the Marches are the dreamscapes of the sleeping in both games [same Shadow Lord had to explain what these mortals were doing walking in each other's dreams to a BorderWatching Malak of Dreams, when the pack had been entering each others dreamscapes to fix mental problems acquired when they were mind-blasted by the things they saw during a trip to Malpheas [a Principality of Hell? I haven't decided yet whether the Wyrm _is_ Lucifer or _works for_ Lucifer yet.] Watcher's name was Ari-El [Earl--does this mean Lion of God like I think it does, or is Ari a specific name for a particular lion, like Goliath is a specific name for a particular giant?], but this was roleplaying, not roll-playing, so I don't have any stats for Ari-El--feel free to use him and to invent your own stats. The Werewolves' Gray Umbra has no IN equivalent, though I am tempted to make it conduit to the Far Marches, with the Totems as powerful Etherials, equal to a 15-18 Force Word-bound Celestial, no match for a full blown AA/DP, but powerful enough within their specific Words to make an AA/DP know they had been in a fight, even one-on-one. Oh, well, more than you really wanted to know. Does the list remember who was working on the WOD/IN combo world? Is it done yet? Maybe it could fill in a few of the holes in my cosmology. Or maybe this will help fill holes in their conversion. Oops, bedtime for the graveyard shift is coming up at Warp 8.9, ttfn. tom timberlake, cadre Cherub of Heaven - --------------44FE590D36DE-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:24:16 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: [Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------4EBA78E14CC3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The last of the exchange between ArchBeth and myself, saving only her permission to pass this to the list for your perusal... - --------------4EBA78E14CC3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from hammurabi.nh.ultra.net (hammurabi.nh.ultra.net [205.162.79.24]) by mail.ionet.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA23363 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:47:44 -0600 (CST) Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:47:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from [207.180.184.45] (d10.dial-1.drh.nh.ultra.net [207.180.184.10]) by hammurabi.nh.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with ESMTP id OAA02743 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:47:09 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: emccoy@pop.nh.ultranet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35083997.6943@ionet.net> References: <199803112227_MC2-366B-87B8@compuserve.com> <19980312114411.40902@RedBrick.DCU.IE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:57:55 -0500 To: tom timberlake From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 1:38 PM -0600 3/12/98, tom timberlake wrote: >AND it all hangs together, since the Bright Umbra is defined, as much as >it can be said to be defined when left vague and general-idea, as being >as place of concepts, ideas--in short, of Words!=20 Of course!! >So the Celestial plane >is the Bright Umbra, the Marches are the dreamscapes of the sleeping in >both games [same Shadow Lord had to explain what these mortals were >doing walking in each other's dreams to a BorderWatching Malak of >Dreams, when the pack had been entering each others dreamscapes to fix >mental problems acquired when they were mind-blasted by the things they >saw during a trip to Malpheas [a Principality of Hell?=20 I love it. >I haven't decided >yet whether the Wyrm _is_ Lucifer or _works for_ Lucifer yet.] Watcher's >name was Ari-El [Earl--does this mean Lion of God like I think it does, >or is Ari a specific name for a particular lion, like Goliath is a >specific name for a particular giant?],=20 Hrm. Um. I don't know -- is "lion" findable on a word-search in biblenames.txt? Lemme look... Line 277: Ariel, altar; light or lion of God = Line 278: Arimathea, a lion dead to the Lord = Line 487: Beth-lebaoth, house of lionesses = Line 594: Chephirah, a little lioness = Line 1578: Kithlish, it is a wall; the company of a lioness = Line 1601: Laish, a lion = =09 I suspect that Ari can be Lion, yes. >and to invent your own stats. The Werewolves' Gray Umbra has no IN >equivalent, though I am tempted to make it conduit to the Far Marches, >with the Totems as powerful Etherials, equal to a 15-18 Force Word-bound >Celestial, no match for a full blown AA/DP, but powerful enough within >their specific Words to make an AA/DP know they had been in a fight, >even one-on-one. Oh, well, more than you really wanted to know.=20 Sounds good to *me*... >Does the >list remember who was working on the WOD/IN combo world? Is it done yet? I haven't heard anything... You could ask. >Maybe it could fill in a few of the holes in my cosmology. Or maybe this >will help fill holes in their conversion. Oops, bedtime for the >graveyard shift is coming up at Warp 8.9, ttfn. Have a good time in the Marches... This is really neat. Are they going to discover any *more* IN stuff? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/=20 - --------------4EBA78E14CC3-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 00:40:23 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor] At 18:22 13/03/98 -0600, you wrote: > Watcher's name was Ari-El [Earl--does this mean Lion of God like I think it does, >or is Ari a specific name for a particular lion, Lion = Aryeh (thats the usual one, I think) Ariel could be Lion of God (as opposed to Auriel) jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:57:14 -0500 From: "David C. Shadle" Subject: IN> Bodies What happens to the vessels of celestials that go celestial? Do they goto sleep, disappear, or what? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:06:31 PST From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Hardcover version of In Nomine Just a hint to list members - if someone posts an obviously newbie question to the list without indicating they've just joined the list, it's usually a good idea to CC: the message directly to them as well - there is no guarantee they've actually subscribed. SurturZ Dissonant Elohite of Stone ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:09:04 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor] On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, tom timberlake wrote: > Does the > list remember who was working on the WOD/IN combo world? Is it done yet? > Maybe it could fill in a few of the holes in my cosmology. That would be me...and it's mostly done. I haven't gotten around do doing a writeup due to basic laziness. I can explain the basic cosmological setup, though. As you have said, the High Umbra is the Celestial plane, since both are realms of embodied concepts. The Marches are a bit different. The Far Marches = the Deep Umbra, as you noted. However, the Marches is also The Dreaming; that's where dreamworld spills over into realworld. Yes, this gives Blandine and Beleth rule over the fae. I would like to point out the legend of the _teind_, wherein the unseelie had to give a yearly tithe of human souls to Hell. Please note how nicely this dovetails with Beleth's shelter of the nastier ethereals.... (Want to make your Changelings nasty? Make the Shadow Court willing Soldiers of Hell. Glamour, cantrips, -and- attunements. Ick.) The Dark Umbra ... to continue the musical metaphor, the Shadowlands are the spaces between the notes. Celestials cannot enter there, in much the same reason that human souls cannot enter limbo. In fact, limbo is probably part of the Tempest. For those folks who bring up the subject of Harrowings, I hasten to point out that total sensory deprivation with no one but yourself for company isn't a walk in the park... The Middle Umbra: the Time Signature of the Symphony. Celestials are forbidden access there, as well. It is the location of the original Garden of Eden, from which Adam and Eve were cast into the Corporeal realm after Celestial interference. Since that time, it has been declared off-limits by Divine Decree. Rumor has it that when the final battle for the souls of humanity has been won, the last traces of Lucifer's corrupting taint will be expunged, and it will house the New Heaven and New Earth. Until such time -- No Admittance. But why are humans allowed in when Celestials aren't? Simple -- humans are the ones that allowed the place to get dirtied up in the first place. They have to clean up their own mess for the race to be redeemed. If the angels do it for them, then they haven't learned anything, now have they? I'm sure that this has raised a lot of questions.....fire away. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:51:05 -0800 From: JJF Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor] Casca wrote: Does the list remember who was working on the WOD/IN combo world? Is it done yet? That would be me...and it's mostly done. I haven't gotten around do doing > a writeup due to basic laziness. >>snip<< I was wondering if you were going to set this up as a webpage? Or maybe as a document we can have? (hint, hint):) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:49:23 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Discordant Questions On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: > I'd been paging through the APG's Choir-specific Discords, and ran > across "Evil Warnming", that Malakite Discord that lets you know there are > Demons in the Area while letting them know there's a Malakite in that > direction. And as I read the description, I noticed that while it says that > it detects the demons "in range" it gives no mention as to how large that > range is. And secondly, other than the reaction penalty, and fifteen extra > points to the character, I couldn't find any difference between Evil > Warning/1 and Evil Warning/6. I've been playing that the disturbance is equal to the Malakite's Forces times the Discord level. It seemed to make the most sense. > Second, I've found meyself in the rather unenviable position of > playing a Bright Lilim struck with the Aura Discord, due to a bad > Judgement. Now the Aura discord does say Angels can tell the subject's a > Demon if she belongs to the band of Lilim...but what about the Choir? I'd say they can still tell she's a Lilim, and are unlikely to assume that she's Bright unless told otherwise. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:52:36 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Bodies On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, David C. Shadle wrote: > What happens to the vessels of celestials that go celestial? Do they goto > sleep, disappear, or what? A vessel does not exist. It's not a thing, or even a body. All it is is a WAY for the celestial to manifest on the Corporeal Plane. It's more like a skill than a physical body. When he goes celestial, he is no longer taking the form of that vessel...it's like dropping an illusion. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:40:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bodies At 4:57 PM -0500 3/13/98, David C. Shadle wrote: >What happens to the vessels of celestials that go celestial? Do they goto >sleep, disappear, or what? They vanish. p. 54, "Taking Celestial Form." 2nd paragraph. "When a character 'goes celestial,' his corproeal vessel vanishes [...]". - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:38:54 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Discordant Questions At 7:03 PM -0500 3/13/98, Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: > I'd been paging through the APG's Choir-specific Discords, and ran >across "Evil Warnming", that Malakite Discord that lets you know there are >Demons in the Area while letting them know there's a Malakite in that >direction. And as I read the description, I noticed that while it says that >it detects the demons "in range" it gives no mention as to how large that >range is. And secondly, other than the reaction penalty, and fifteen extra >points to the character, I couldn't find any difference between Evil >Warning/1 and Evil Warning/6. I thought I sent errata about those. The amount of disturbance he generates, IIRC my ruling a while back, was that the amount of disturbance is actually the level of the Discord, and "in range" was... Frotz. I forget. How would it work if the level of the Discord were stuck into the "Perception Roll's Modifier in yards, times the perceiver's Celestial Forces" increment formula, as the "Perception Roll's Modifier"? Anything within that is "in range"? Gimme some feedback on that, could you? It's rather... messy. > Second, I've found meyself in the rather unenviable position of >playing a Bright Lilim struck with the Aura Discord, due to a bad >Judgement. Now the Aura discord does say Angels can tell the subject's a >Demon if she belongs to the band of Lilim...but what about the Choir? Option 1: She's no longer a Band. She's just "a celestial." Option 2: A Lilim is a Lilim is a Lilim... They can tell she's a Lilim. Option 3: She's recognaizable as an angel, by *demons*! (Can be combined with options 1 and 2.) Option 4: She's recognizable as an angel, by other angels. (Can be combined with option 2.) Option 5: She's recognizable as an angel, by any celestial with eyes. (Can be combined with option 2.) The phrasing does say "Band" and "demon," so it would make sense that a Bright doesn't register as a *demon*. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:44:50 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Discordant Questions On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 7:03 PM -0500 3/13/98, Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: > > I'd been paging through the APG's Choir-specific Discords, and ran > >across "Evil Warnming", that Malakite Discord that lets you know there are > >Demons in the Area while letting them know there's a Malakite in that > >direction. And as I read the description, I noticed that while it says that > >it detects the demons "in range" it gives no mention as to how large that > >range is. And secondly, other than the reaction penalty, and fifteen extra > >points to the character, I couldn't find any difference between Evil > >Warning/1 and Evil Warning/6. > > I thought I sent errata about those. The amount of disturbance he > generates, IIRC my ruling a while back, was that the amount of disturbance > is actually the level of the Discord, and "in range" was... Frotz. > I forget. How would it work if the level of the Discord were stuck into > the "Perception Roll's Modifier in yards, times the perceiver's Celestial > Forces" increment formula, as the "Perception Roll's Modifier"? Anything > within that is "in range"? > > Gimme some feedback on that, could you? It's rather... messy. WAY too complicated...the disturbance rules are messy enough as is. IMC, the disturbance caused is the Malak's Forces times the Discord level. > > Second, I've found meyself in the rather unenviable position of > >playing a Bright Lilim struck with the Aura Discord, due to a bad > >Judgement. Now the Aura discord does say Angels can tell the subject's a > >Demon if she belongs to the band of Lilim...but what about the Choir? > > Option 1: She's no longer a Band. She's just "a celestial." > > Option 2: A Lilim is a Lilim is a Lilim... They can tell she's a Lilim. > > Option 3: She's recognaizable as an angel, by *demons*! (Can be combined > with options 1 and 2.) > > Option 4: She's recognizable as an angel, by other angels. (Can be combined > with option 2.) > > Option 5: She's recognizable as an angel, by any celestial with eyes. (Can > be combined with option 2.) > > The phrasing does say "Band" and "demon," so it would make sense that > a Bright doesn't register as a *demon*. My $.02: Lilim are the most unique celestials in existance. A Seraph with an aura has a rather similar aura to a Balseraph, so it's muddy and hard to make out. Same with most choirs and bands...Malakites are probably somewhat clear, but they're a choir that was created from angels of other choirs, so that muddies it up a bit too. Lilim, though, have no counterparts. They are just Lilim...the only creatures that can fall or redeem without changing. So when they have an aura, it's unlike any other celestial's aura. Anyone looking at it will realize that it's a Lilim. [This is true in game as well. If the GM tells you "You see a bright aura around her...somehow, you can tell she's a demon," any player with an IQ greater than his shoe size will answer, "So she's a Lilim, then."] Therefore, when a Lilim goes bright, her aura still reads 'LILIM'. The fact that she has gone bright is likely to be overlooked by those nasty Malakim unless she has a high level of either Fast-Talk or Running. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #677 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.