From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Mar 16 21:28:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13399 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:28:04 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA16182 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:14:30 -0600 Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:14:30 -0600 Message-Id: <199803170314.VAA16182@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #681 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, March 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 681 In this digest: IN> IN INWO CotW #4 Re: IN> Re: IN- Sweet to the Sweet Re: IN> Re: Eviiiiiiil! Re: IN> Re: Eviiiiiiil! Re: Death roles (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith) Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor Re: IN> Re: Eviiiiiiil! Re: Death roles (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith) Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor IN> Re: Vessels Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor IN> The Sock Mystery is Solved! IN> Re: IN INWO: Cards still to be done IN> Character Problems ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 02:12:55 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: IN> IN INWO CotW #4 [Another week, another set of awards. Some of the card submitted aren't that hot, mainly it has to be said because people are trying to fit In Nomine concepts into INWO and it doesn't always work. And I must say that no cards have quite stood out and grabbed my attention since Malakim of Eli :-). Oh well. Anyway, here are the award-winners - still no CotWacks (sorry Marc, better luck next time).] Cards of the Week ================= Cherubim of Novalis Graphic: A woman pushing another man out of the way of a falling anvil; the anvil is sure to hit the woman now. Text:The Cherubim of Novalis are willing to bear the wounds of others. As an action, they can cause any attack except Disasters to affect them instead of its original target. An Assassination drawn to them this way can kill them; treat them as a Personality for all purposes during such an attack. Alignments:Peaceful Attributes: Angelic Power 2 Resistance 5 Control arrows: In: (B) Out: (R) Proposed by Pee Kitty (Pkitty@cris.com). [Fits perfectly the whole Cherubim of Novalid thing, and is a pretty good card to boot.] Malakim of Jean Graphic: An angel in coveralls, with a toolkit, looking thoughtfully at a smoking pile of pieces-parts. Quote:What a mess - this may actually take an hour or so! Text: They are Heaven's finest repairmen. They may prevent any of your Gadget Resources from being destroyed, as a free move. You must discard a Resource from play or from your hand, however, for spare parts. As an action, they may protect another player's Gadget Resources; either of you may discard the Resource needed. Attributes: Science, Angelic Power 2 Resistance 3 Control arrows: In: (T) Out: (R) Proposed by Alex Yeager (YeagerAW@maritz.com). [The best, IMHO, of the Jean cards.] Cards of the Weak ================= Elohim of David Graphic: A lone man trekking up a forested mountain. The man is almost a speck compared to the huge, tree-covered mountain range. Quote:You are here -->. Text: These Elohim always know exactly where they are and never become lost. If they are moved (within the same power structure), they may move back under their previous master as a free move, at any time except during an attack. Attributes:Angelic Power 2 Resistance 5 Control arrows: In: (T) Out: (R L) Proposed by Pee Kitty (Pkitty@cris.com). [Apart from being immune to the Phone Phreaks, I don't see much point to this card. If they had alignments or any other attributes it could be worthwhile, but they don't. And I know it was tricky to give them a worthwhile special ability, as I failed to think up one myself. Nonetheless, CotWeak it is.] Ofanim of David Graphic: A CEO at a business desk, oblivious to the humanoid figure slowly coming out of the wall behind him. Quote:"No one can hear you. No one can help you." Text:The Ofanim of David can pass through solid walls to get at their targets! If they attack a group, and no group aids this attack, then no group may defend the target. This even applies to Illuminati and groups that can defend as a free move. Attributes:Angelic Power 3 Resistance 5 Control arrows: In: (B) Out: (R L) Proposed by Pee Kitty (Pkitty@cris.com). [With no alignments or bonuses to take groups, the best they have, either with an attack from hand or an attack on a Sorry Wrong Number'ed rival, is a 2 or less (possibly a 5 or less if their power has been bumped up somehow). Frankly, not a killing machine.] [Anyway, that's it for this week. Get some good quotes and graphics for me next week, please :-( ] Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew has moved: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ If you can count your money, you don't have a billion dollars. - J Paul Getty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:46:48 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Sweet to the Sweet At 03:22 AM 15/03/98 -0500, you wrote: Demons and Angels, In Nomine the tv series, with Christopher Walken as Liam, a Mercurian of Gariel working for the Chicago Police, Courteney Cox as Tessa, Balseraph Captain of Game, Ashley Laurence as Caitlin, Soldier of Hell, Judd Nelson as Gerotag, Impudite Count of genetic Engineering, and other characters whom I haven't worked out actors for yet, how does it sound huh? You've got the show fairly split between the angels and the demons, except this time instead of Kindred we aren't prettying them up, or making them the bad guys, the angels too are haunted and pessemistic beings, I thought I might call the pilot, Sweet to the Sweet, as it involves tracking down a renegade shedite of Haagenti, as well as a a showdown with a Malakite in a Rush Street Club. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:42:04 EST From: Heretic103 Subject: Re: IN> Re: Eviiiiiiil! In a message dated 98-03-14 21:38:10 EST, you write: << > Kobal may mean well (in a demonic way), but his vision is different from God's > and he puts it above the real Symphony. Thus, he is evil. > > Remember the old chestnut. . ."the road to hell is paved with good > intentions." >> The interpitation of "evil" is subjective in real life too so the way I have always seen it is that the game will generaly reflect the views(as twisted as they may be) of the GM. I personally change the history of In Nomine slightly and the reason satan rebeled is he did not agree with the fact that god let humans suffer or as the movie devil's advocate put it: He gives man all these instinctual desires and then for his own amusement, his own cosmic humor he makes all the rules in opposition. I would encurouge all GM's to interpit there own beliefs/fantasies into there own game and make them themes, like I do. I believe the games are stories and show always contain themes, satire, entertainment and unhealthy amounts of creamcheese. Hairy Tick, Demon Servitor of Truthful Poetry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:23:17 -0500 From: Pete Overton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Eviiiiiiil! Hello There List, >The interpitation of "evil" is subjective in real life too so the way I have >always seen it is that the game will generaly reflect the views(as twisted as >they may be) of the GM. I personally change the history of In Nomine slightly I have always interpreted the classic evil of religion to merely be the rejection of God's path as outlined by Him. Lucifer did not agree with God's path and believed that his own path was superior and more metaphysically rewarding for humanity than God's and so he took his loyal angels with him and established a place away from God, which would be Hell. Hell is, of course, the absence of God. Ironically, there is a growing contingent in my world who reject BOTH paths, feeling that while they don't agree with everything God says, they feel that it is totally unreasonable of Him to have a "take it or leave it" philosophy. Many of these folks are the same who can't forgive Him for allowing suffering and pain to exist. At the same time, they are not evil in the sense that they turn to Lucifer and his arrogance. They merely feel that they are good people (not perfect, not evil) and that a pleasant afterlife is not too much to expect. By God's definition, they are evil as they have rejected Him, but by Lucifer's definiton, they have not rejected Him enough to qualify for Hell. I mean, take me. I don't think I am evil by any means, I think I'm basically a good person, but because I don't accept God's path, I am condemned. This is the new dilemma that the IN angels are facing in my stories (and Clarielle in particular as she serves the Archangel of Death). What was once clear-cut is now graying in the closing days of the 20th Century, especially with Clarielle having just "awakened" from Celestial Lethe and still adjusting back to her angelic nature. Of course, loyal angels point out that a place called Purgatory exists for them, close enough to see the Light of God but not close enough to be in it, as opposed to Hell where no Light of God ever touches unless He wants it to. But the question is beginning to weight on several of the more humanistic Celestial minds. I guess the point is that if evil was so very clear cut a definition, then Free Will would be null and void. A hilarious sidebar, I told a friend of mine who was running an IN one-shot to have a demon perpetuate angelic ideals in a protectorate. It threw the PCs into a tizzy wondering why the demons in their area were seemingly advancing their angelic agendas and they went NUTS trying to figure out what was going on and even began to question their agendas. I am told it was a hoot. ::smile:: Pete ========================================================================= E-Mail: pover@golden.net ICQ#: 2192976 Celestially Known As Clarielle, Mercurian of Death. "We work in the dark. We do what we can to battle the evil that would otherwise destroy us. But if a man's character is his fate, this fight is not a choice, but a calling. Yet sometimes the weight of this burden causes us to falter, breaching the fragile fortress of our mind, allowing the monsters without to turn within and we are left alone staring into the abyss." -- Mulder, "Grotesque", The X-Files ========================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:28:17 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: Death roles (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith) On Thu, Mar 12, 1998 at 11:36:08AM -0000, Hart, Joanna wrote: > > You know that you are not doing well in the armies of hell when your unit > nurse is a servitor of Saminga who is 'on permanent loan' and your That's actually worse than the latest part of Cheran's character background for Hitherby's as yet unstarted PbEM. During the battle of New York, she was administering a hospital on behalf of her Lord Baal. She just happens to be a Habbalite. Guess how she dealt with the problem of waiting lists. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:41:42 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor On Thu, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:10:11PM -0500, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Hopelessness isn't inevitable in > >the WOD, unless the GM puts it there. > > Though I recall my spouse figuring the statistics (ugh, game-mechanics!) > for the Vampires' Humanity rating. (This was from the GURPS version, > though. I don't know if the numbers add up for the WoD version...) > > Vampires always lose to the Beast, in time. The odds are rigged that way. > > Looking at the WoD version, I find it hard to agree. Losing the last point of Humanity is damned difficult, since it involves doing acts of evil which would impress Shedim. It's next to impossible to maintain a high Humanity/Path rating, but holding onto the last point is very easy. Wraith is different, though, because you can't lost Permanent Angst, except through the intervention of Archangelics (and you don't want their help, believe me) or the heads of the Pardoners' Guild. That holds true to an extent for Changeling, as well. > With angels, on the other hand, they can *always* choose to generate > Discord instead of letting the dissonance hang around enough to Trip > them... (Well, a 666 might toast them.) > For Elohim, if no-one else, that usually sends them further on the downward spiral, so that when they finally kick it, they're far worse than they would have been. > > I liked some of the Vampire stuff, but got kind of turned off by > the stuff in the back. "You are different, you are better, you know > this" parts of character creation. I know *quite* well what emotions > that taps into shamelessly, and more power to them for making it a > subtle (?) marketing thing. But it was a little too blatent for me. > I don't like that stuff myself, though it's also likely an inevitable response by those who belong to groups with supernatural powers. > > Of course, I *also* always play things a little off-kilter. WoD is > very angsty in the books (how it's played is another matter entirely, > per game), so of course I like Malkies. Our GURPS game, which is > very non-angsty, I take the character with amnesia (ANGST! YEAH!). I love weird flaws, like Throwback (done very nicely in the Wheel of Time), and the sort of visual effects that won't make mundanes notice you but make you an instant target for any other supernatural beings around. Social disadvantages are also cool, as well as the extra ones that don't give any character points. Amnesia would interfere with my obsessive desire for control of my characters, though. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:12:50 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor At 09:41 AM 16/03/98 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:10:11PM -0500, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> In my WoD experience my villains were dark, the situations were dark everything was dark except for the players, who humoured me endlessly, they held a unique perspective, and kept themselves above the depression, and my vampire character, a Tremere no less, broke in to a store to steal a playstation as a present for two people she was meeting, I like that, being able to stand out in a dying world, I think that's what WoD is, to me any way, In Nomine is also similiar in respects that many an angel and demon have lost they're way, but the PC's are determined to make a difference. Simon, Demon Prince of Heroism ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:13:48 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Re: Eviiiiiiil! > The interpitation of "evil" is subjective in real life too so the way I have > always seen it is that the game will generaly reflect the views(as twisted as > they may be) of the GM. I personally change the history of In Nomine slightly > and the reason satan rebeled is he did not agree with the fact that god let > humans suffer or as the movie devil's advocate put it: He gives man all these > instinctual desires and then for his own amusement, his own cosmic humor he > makes all the rules in opposition. I would encurouge all GM's to interpit > there own beliefs/fantasies into there own game and make them themes, like I > do. I believe the games are stories and show always contain themes, satire, > entertainment and unhealthy amounts of creamcheese. > Out of my overly deep .sigDB file: "'The endless praises of the choirs of angels had begun to grow wearisome; for, after all, did He not deserve their praise? Had He not given them endless joy? Would it not be more amusing to obtain undeserved praise, to be worshipped by beings whom he tortured? He smiled inwardly, and resolved that the great drama should be performed.'" - Bertrand Russell - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:29:50 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: Death roles (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith) Kevin wrote: >During the battle of New >York, she was administering a hospital on behalf of her Lord Baal. She >just happens to be a Habbalite. Guess how she dealt with the problem of >waiting lists. So what you are saying is that when she is finished in New York she could hop the Atlantic and get a job as a hospital administrator in the NHS? ;) jo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:48:27 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) > > I'm not really sure about this. I'm going to have to say that I > > strongly disagree. Kobal, IMO of course, makes a habit of pointing out > > how stupid you are, and makes others laugh at you (oversimplifying). If > > he were teaching people to laugh at misfortune and be better because of > > it, he would be an Angel. > > > > The key to Demons is not that they disagree with God's plan, it is that > > they think that they have a better one and act on it. They are all > > about being selfish. They want the best for themselves and damned be to > > all the rest. > > But he *does* think he has a better plan, and he *is* acting on > it. He thinks he's helping humanity, but so do the Habbalah. His > intention is to make people better able to withstand their own suffering > and the suffering of others (well-adjusted humans tend to be remarkably > empathetic). So a bit of sangfroid would help people in Kobal's opinion. No. On this point I agree with Jo. Kobal is not a happy man. He does not work in the best interests of Humanity. If he did, he would be a Mercurian, no matter what his Word is. He doesn't want to make people happy, he wants to use humans and their capacities to get themselves in trouble (ie cause violence) to further his own aims. He wants to point out exactly how much they're suffering, just like he is. It's so much better to be able to capitalize on someone else's misery then dwell in your own. And Hell is the pinnacle of suffering, so there's tons of material there. He's gone so far to point out how ludicrious the place is by making a gremlin into a Prince, and setting him free. "Look," he says, "Even the stupidest, slowest, most moronic of us all can give old Azzie the run around. Isn't this _Funny_? So much for your lame ass Game, jerky." The fact that a war criminal in Serbia only gets 5 years in prison after killing hundreds of people is 'funny', because it's 'ironic' that the guy used the same defense the Nazi's did after WWII. Isn't that just hilarious? > The problem is, Kobal's not teaching people to laugh at their own > misfortune. In an ideal world, Kobal the angel would promote the idea > that when you fail, you have a good laugh and chalk it up to experience. > But Kobal the demon teaches people that nothing is as funny as someone > else failing, that when something horrible happens to you or anyone else, > it's the object of ridicule. That's not the point. In our MUSH game it was pointed out that pulling the towel off the naked body of a very overweight woman getting a massage is _Funny_. It's great for a few laughs. It's too bad the woman may never go get a massage again. Worse, it will probably add to a pile of emotional scars. She might become extremely depressed. Isn't this fun? You certainly don't hurt anyone, and you sure are charming to all your buddies, when you had them that huge towel. They might even run around with it while the poor woman watches, and mock her. You're the life of the party. Pain. Emotional pain. Sometimes it's worse to let your victims live and enjoy everything you do to them, then kill them. - - Em. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:55:03 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) > >I'm not really sure about this. I'm going to have to say that I > >strongly disagree. Kobal, IMO of course, makes a habit of pointing out > >how stupid you are, and makes others laugh at you (oversimplifying). If > >he were teaching people to laugh at misfortune and be better because of > >it, he would be an Angel. > > > > I agree with Andrew here. Look at the attunement Kobal gives to his > Impudites (they can kill mortals, as long as it's funny), and then magnify > it a lot. Then remember that he finds a lot of things funny that normal > people wouldn't. It's quite plausaible that he sits around and smirks when > he hears reports of mass mortal deaths, whether he caused them or not, 'Ah > well, you have to see the funny side.' I don't know if he'd approve of mass mortal deaths, just because he's an Impudite, if for no other reason. Although yes, it's true, I highly suspect he finds certain things funny that would make a human cringe. You know, I always give my Superiors automatically all the attunements they give to their servitors. So yes, Eli can kill you with a jump rope and a tube of toothpaste. This is just a non-sequitor, though. > I don't think his aim is to try to make humanity happier ;) If he loves > mortals, its purely because they are more amusing than demons (not > difficult). I suspect the most amusing thing about Dark Comedy is that most > of it's servitors -- including the Prince -- take it all SO SERIOUSLY. At > least, that would match up with stand-up comedians I have known. Lucifer > probably gets a good laugh out of it. > I've noticed that too. Stand up comedians tend to take their comedy very seriously. Especially if they write their own bits. I mean, it's not just humor. It's an artform. > I think Andre is probably an even worse Impudite. Anyone really think he > gets dissonance if he hurts or kills a mortal? ;) > None he can't sleep off. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:08:12 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > On Thu, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:10:11PM -0500, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > > Though I recall my spouse figuring the statistics (ugh, game-mechanics!) > > for the Vampires' Humanity rating. (This was from the GURPS version, > > though. I don't know if the numbers add up for the WoD version...) > > > > Vampires always lose to the Beast, in time. The odds are rigged that way. > > > > > Looking at the WoD version, I find it hard to agree. Losing the last point > of Humanity is damned difficult, since it involves doing acts of evil > which would impress Shedim. It's next to impossible to maintain a high > Humanity/Path rating, but holding onto the last point is very easy. This is very true, and yes, I do find this to be a feature, rather than a bug. However, it is quite possible to run a Humanity-less Vampire game. Just say at the outset to the players that you really don't care what their Humanity is because your game won't be -about- the struggle to retain it and just go from there. It's a much more flexible setting than White Wolf would like to think. > Wraith is different, though, because you can't lost Permanent Angst, > except through the intervention of Archangelics (and you don't want their > help, believe me) or the heads of the Pardoners' Guild. But in Wraith, you don't have to worry about trying to figure out what gets you Pathos (opposite of Angst) --- you get to -pick- your character's Passions at the beginning of the game. God or Superiors don't hand them to you, as they do in In Nomine (and, to a certain extent, in Vampire!) > > I liked some of the Vampire stuff, but got kind of turned off by > > the stuff in the back. "You are different, you are better, you know > > this" parts of character creation. I know *quite* well what emotions > > that taps into shamelessly, and more power to them for making it a > > subtle (?) marketing thing. But it was a little too blatent for me. > > > I don't like that stuff myself, though it's also likely an inevitable > response by those who belong to groups with supernatural powers. Changeling is worse. A -lot- worse. Changeling to me is the most offensive of the White Wolf games, because it constantly says over and over that the things that White Wolf Staffers like are good and filled with creative energy and neat and things that White Wolf Staffers don't like are evil and dull and boring. I'm sorry, but there's more creative energy in even your -average- mathematics classroom than there is in the coolest coffeehouse in town. Anyway, yes, it's a shameless marketing ploy and I -hate- it. Jason skreddy 57 baby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:11:03 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Kobal (was Re: In Nomine Flavor) About Kobal "loving" people because he's an Impudite: I thought Impudites "love" people the way people "love" candy -- as consumer goods, sources of Essence and amusement. On that logic, any "love" Kobal has for humans would only prompt him to make a more plentiful harvest of them -- a harvest of targets to the the butts of jokes, in his case, I suppose. (I think that's about three metaphors embedded in one sentence. Oh, well.) He's a demon; no "love" of his works toward the better lot of his love-object -- neither his idea of "better" nor the object's nor anyone else's -- except by coincidence. I'd think of it in terms of the end of the last Screwtape letter. Almost all the other letters have ended "Your affectionate uncle." In the last once, Screwtape says, "Love you? Of course. As tender a morsel as ever I grew fat on." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:59:08 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor >> > I liked some of the Vampire stuff, but got kind of turned off by >> > the stuff in the back. "You are different, you are better, you know >> > this" parts of character creation. I know *quite* well what emotions >> > that taps into shamelessly, and more power to them for making it a >> > subtle (?) marketing thing. But it was a little too blatent for me. >> > >> I don't like that stuff myself, though it's also likely an inevitable >> response by those who belong to groups with supernatural powers. > > >Changeling is worse. A -lot- worse. Changeling to me is the most >offensive of the White Wolf games, because it constantly says over and >over that the things that White Wolf Staffers like are good and filled >with creative energy and neat and things that White Wolf Staffers don't >like are evil and dull and boring. >Jason >skreddy 57 baby Have you ever read the Shadow Court book. Let me tell you, that one is far from happy and good. There is also the Changeling novel, "Pomegranates Full and Fine". Horribly innaccurate, but definately dark. Others on this list have stated their offence at the system, but I have to say that I like it. The books are merely are starting point. Yeah, some of the info isn't "accurate", but hey, name me the game system that cannot be systematically ripped apart by accuracy fiends. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:15:55 +0000 From: "Ad." Subject: IN> Re: Vessels > > At 12:44 PM -0500 3/14/98, Andrew Frades wrote: > >> David C. Shadle wrote: > >> > >> What happens to the vessels of celestials that go celestial? Do they goto > >> sleep, disappear, or what? > > > >Poof. Gone. While you are Celestial your body is nowhere until you > >re-corporealize. > > > >Andrew > > Yep. With up to 10 x Corp Forces of stuff. That's a lot of weight. > Enough to carry a number of nice weapons, or a small animal or infant. Time > doesn't flow for the Vessel, because otherwise your Vessels might bleed to > death while you're not using them. Also means you have to keep resetting > your watch every time you swap Vessels. Small price to pay for a whole > bunch of new Body. Disturbance makes it a bit inconvenient, though. Hmmm, no, I would disagree (though I don't know the official ruling). I would rule that nothing living (except micro-oganism) can be taken Celestial. This is also neccessary to explain why a pregnant celestial can't leave her vessel, she can't suspend the child with her vessel. In particular, familiars, demons, angels, spirits, Jordi, or anything else in a smallish vessel can't be effectively soul killed by grabbing them and doing a vessel switch. Pity, because it rules out cool plots like the one you outlined from my game, Adam, Ofanite of Last Minute Player Recruitment. "The seas boiled and the living envied the dead. All was shattered and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon." - - from: The Breaking of the World, Author Unknown, Fourth Age. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:05:44 -0500 From: Pete Overton Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Flavor >This is very true, and yes, I do find this to be a feature, rather than a >bug. However, it is quite possible to run a Humanity-less Vampire game. >Just say at the outset to the players that you really don't care what >their Humanity is because your game won't be -about- the struggle to >retain it and just go from there. It's a much more flexible setting than >White Wolf would like to think. I feel it necessary to point out that most of my Vampire characters abandon their humanity after they realize that it no longer applies to them and take up a Path, even the Camarilla ones. This usually happens over the course of several stories and more and more isolation from their old lives (either forced or by their own choice). When they are removed from their old lives, their morality systems change since they start to see humans as different from themselves, and this process quickens the more fellow vampires they hang around, which is why the Sabbat usually almost exclusively have Paths. It takes a lot of will to maintain your morals while you feed on those who sourced them. My characters usually learn this in some rather extreme way. :) Pete ============================================================= E-Mail: pover@golden.net ICQ#: 2192976 Celestially Known As Clarielle, Mercurian of Death. * * * * * * Mulder: "If someone could prove to you the existence of God, would it change you?" Scully: "Only if it had been disproven." -- "Gesthesmane", X-Files ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:58:39 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> The Sock Mystery is Solved! Okay, this conversation really IS my fault. Really. Honestly. But I'm geased to share. *********************************************************************** Demiurge works on getting Eli into things, since evidently we're going to need him. ;) Shannen thinks we need all the help we can get.. Daimon says "But it's ELI, not HELP." Daimon defines help, at minimum, as someone who can match their socks. This unfortunately excludes Eli from that set. Sarah laughs! Demiurge laughs. Shannen . o O ( True.. ) Demiurge | Eli looks up, with a crazy smile. "The orange sock loves the tartan sock." Sarah fears Demi and the sock love affairs. Eduardo waves and just fears Demi. Daimon likes the sock love affairs. Daimon goes off to write a small story about sock love affairs. Daimon says "Sex in the dryer," Eduardo says "On the dryer is better. In the dryer is too crowded." Daimon says "I bet the orange sock gets all black widowy, and eats the tartan sock while drying." Daimon says "Which explains why there is only one." Daimon says "SOCK ORGY!" Demiurge snickers at the socks. Daimon, for some inexplicable reason, jumps into a pile of freshly dried socks. Sarah eyes Daimon. Demiurge imagines Daimon's happy face. Daimon says "WOOO!" Demiurge has this image of Daimon amid socks, like Captain Kirk beset by tribbles. Daimon nods lots and lots. Daimon says "I'm trying to get down to the bottom of this sock mystery." Daimon holds socks up before his eyes, and asks each sock if it's been bad or good. The socks squeak. Daimon looks for bloated socks that might have just, you know, cannabalized one of it's sock brothers. Daimon says "WOAH! Squeaking socks!" Demiurge points out a sock that is wide and fat with lint. Sarah eeeep. Daimon picks up the sock that is wide and fat with lint, and lectures it sternly about why there are always two socks in a 'pair'. The sock squirms. Clearly Shedite-ridden. Daimon throws the sock down, stands up, and jumps up and down on it. Demiurge says "Where do baby Shedim train? In socks!" Daimon says "How dare they eat my socks!" Daimon thinks this explains the disappearing sock mystery, though. Demiurge says "That way you'll have at least one safe pair." Daimon says "What if I put that shedite ridden sock on my foot?" Daimon says "Would it chew on my toes?" Sarah says "Fungus!" Daimon pulls off his own sock, and checks his toes. Demiurge says "I don't know. Try it and find out?" The toes are all there, but the nails have been maliciously painted lime-green. Sarah says "Eek!" Daimon says "My GOD, I've been Pranked!" Daimon picks up the Shedite-ridden sock. Daimon tosses it into the dryer with a strip of Celestial Fabric Softener. Daimon turns the dryer on 'fluff'. The sock wriggles, plaintively. Daimon turns the dryer on, and waits to see a fluffy shedite. Sarah . o O ( And a Kyrio tumbles out! ) The Shedite is banished, swirling away with a scream of fluffiness! Liz has disconnected. Sarah says "LIZ IS A SHEDITE!" Eduardo says "LIZ IS A SOCK!" Demiurge laughs. Daimon plops in front of the dryer on the rapidly cooling sock pile, opens his sketchbook, and does a little really bad drawing while waiting the fluffy shedite. Daimon says "Woah." Daimon says "No fluffy shedite?" The Shedite is Redeemed into a Kyriotate, who makes the sock into a puppet and waves it through the glass. Daimon opens the dryer. Woo! Daimon thinks, hey, if he can redeem a shedite in a dryer... what about Lilim and Impudites? Will they fit? Sarah says "It's the aura of fluffiness!" Daimon thinks about climbing into the dryer with the celestial fabric softner. Demiurge says "Hm. It was a very small baby Shedite." Demiurge | Daimon says, to the Lilim of Andre, "Trust me. It's the new thrill." He crosses his fingers behind his back, and holds the dryer door open. Sarah says "It merely had to learn to adore fluff." Daimon says "EXCELLENT!" Sarah LAUGHS Sarah says "Bright Lilim of Destiny, all right :)" Daimon likes fluff. He demonstrates it by cudding Sarah, who is, celestially, quite fluffy. ********************************************************************* Ow. My head. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:51:07 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: IN> Re: IN INWO: Cards still to be done On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Sam Kington wrote: > In case you want to join in the IN INWO card design effort, here's a > list of cards that haven't yet been done. (Cards should be posted to > inwo-cards, not in_nomine-l.) > > Plots: > +10 (Angelic and Demonic) > Power to 6 (Angelic and Demonic) > Reload (Angelic and Demonic) - should probably be Sunrise and Sunset You read my mind. > Zap (Angelic and Demonic) > Paralyse (Angelic and Demonic) > > Servitors: > Blandine and Jordi are out, and I believe Dominic and Yves are > claimed. Vapula is also claimed, which leaves the Demonic servitors of > the following Demon Princes (Beleth, Haagenti and Lilith are not in the > expansion): Actually, Dominic isn't claimed...I was going to take a stab at him, but if anyone else gets flashes of inspiration at the choir attunements (unlike me, who's straining to come up with good translations of 'em), please speak up and take dibs. > In addition, there aren't any NWOs, Resources, Places or Personalities. Traditionally, expansions have had more Plots than Groups/Resources... I was of the opinion (though it's certainly not intractable law) that we should leave groups at the 153.5 new angels and demons...with the Soldier plots taking that aspect into play, and the obligatory "Tether" Plot(s) to make Places more celestial-influenced, there really aren't any important places, people, or groups in IN canon... (The .5 group? That's the one I've got to replace Vapula's Calabim. You'll love it, I promise.) Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:01:52 -0800 From: Drake Subject: IN> Character Problems Ok, I have a problem that I need some help with. It deals with my current In Nomine character. See, I really love 2 Choirs, the Seraphim and the Malakim. The Seraphs, I love their outlook and personality, their name, their authority and nobility, their high divine status (ie when with other angels of similar rank, the Seraph's word goes, and their bonus to summon Archangels in Heaven), their Celestial appearance, and the thing I love most about Seraphs is their Resonance.. In play, I have found that to be the most useful and best tool I have. The Malakim, I love their outlook and personality, their reputation and their freedom to be a bit 'evil', their immunity to Trauma, their Celestial appearance (more so then the Seraphs'), and I LOVE their sense of honor and Dissonance rules/Code of Honor, as well as their Resonance (Prefer the Seraph Res, but the Malakite Diss). Now my problem is that I love these 2 Choirs too much that I really can't decide between which one I want to play. My current character is a Seraph Malakite, 15,000 years old. He was a Seraph that served Lucifer before the Fall, and became a Malakite during the Fall as he rebelled against Lucifer and joined Heaven. He has the Resonance and Dissonance rules of both Choirs, and is a servent of War, on loan to Laurence. Anyway, to help balance it out a little, I gave the Malakite Resonance a -4 penalty to use, and gave him like 6 extra Oaths. Now this has been working out good, hasn't really been that unbalancing that I'm aware of.. But I don't much like it, never did, but did it because I couldn't think of what else to do. I would much rather have 1 Choir, but I love these 2 Choirs too much to pick one or the other. I have thought about trying to make a new Choir, but I would rather have a character that is closer to Canon then something I've completely made up just to make me happy. But if I have to, that is what I will do. But the reason why I'm here.. I need help with this problem and I can't think of any solutions besides either picking just 1 of the Choirs (Which I don't want to do), keeping what I have (which I'd rather not do), come up with some sort of new Choir that is a mix of the 2, or come up with some sort of rule that is somewhat in canon that would allow me to have what I'm wanting, a Seraph Malakite that is just 1 Choir. Any suggestions would be welcomed. Amon-Nahashel "Drake", Angel of Multiple Choir Confusion ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #681 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.