From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Mar 19 15:42:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26510 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:42:57 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA13003 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:16:54 -0600 Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:16:54 -0600 Message-Id: <199803192116.PAA13003@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #685 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, March 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 685 In this digest: IN> Four days. (Vignette, possibly squicky) Re: IN> Bound! IN> To the devil, his due Re: Shedim and Possession (Re: IN> Fallen) IN> Haagenti's Menu Re: Shedim and Possession (Re: IN> Fallen) Re: IN> Wandering Jew? Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) Re: IN> Bound! Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) Re: IN> Re: Free Lilim Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) IN> vessels? Re: Shedim and Possession (Re: IN> Fallen) Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) IN> The Endless Re: IN> vessels? Re: IN> vessels? Re: IN> The Endless Re: IN> The Endless ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 06:19:36 -0500 (EST) From: Doubting Eric Subject: IN> Four days. (Vignette, possibly squicky) Three days ago. I only saw him once. In the parade of faces, and endless strings of names scribbled into my book with a signature and token personal sentiment, he was near the end of the afternoon's ordeal. My smile was relexive by then, and when I asked him his name, he put his hand on mine. "Alan," he said, and the second stretched into an hour as he smiled. It was six in the evening when I unlocked my apartment, jaw sore from eight hours of smiles and pleasantries at the bookstore. I wanted dinner, I wanted a hot bath, and I wanted bed. My purse and my keys were dropped within the first few steps past the threshold, and I kicked off my shoes with a long exhalation. I had a few moments of relief, there, until I looked over to my answering machine and saw the LED blinking at a frantic pace. I might have groaned in resignation as I walked over to the telephone and pushed the button. I don't remember too clearly. Over three dozen messages, all of them in the same voice, and saying the same thing. "Hello Sheryl. Real soon now." Alan's voice. I may have screamed. I didn't get my bath that night, and dinner felt like wet cardboard in my mouth. I sat at the kitchen counter, chewing like some sort of machine. My eyes stayed locked to the telephone, waiting for it to ring, praying it didn't, knowing it would. It didn't. Not through a dinner I barely noticed, not through the hour I spent checking every door and window in my apartment, and not through the hours I stayed wide awake in bed until exhaustion overrode fear. It rang just after I fell asleep. "What do you want?!" I yelled into the handset, before giving the caller a chance to say anything. I knew who it was, who it had to be. I wasn't disappointed. His voice was friendly, agreeable. The same tone he gave his name in. "Aw, Sheryl. There's no need to be so excitable. We've got three whole days yet." The bravery had to come from somewhere, I guess. I don't know where it is now. "Look, you sick little freak. If you call me one more time I'm going to have the police on you faster than you can blink. Got me?" "Now now, Sheryl honey. That's no way to talk. You get some sleep now, and we'll talk soon. Sweet dreams, darling." And the line went dead. He knew damn well I wasn't going to be sleeping that night. Two days ago, I drove to the telephone company to have my number changed. The clerk was agreeable enough, and on impulse I asked her if there was some way of checking calls made to the old number. There was. We checked. I received exactly no phone calls the day before. I ignored the questions of the clerk and walked out of the office, numb. I called my publicist, and had her cancel my signing that afternoon. She asked why, and I remember giving her some excuse about not feeling well. I hurried home, looking over my shoulder enough that I nearly drove off the road. My apartment was still in the condition I left it, and the dark LED on the answering machine caused a wave of relief that almost knocked me down. I locked the door, chained it, and propped a chair under the knob before crawling into bed and passing out. Yesterday, I woke up and it was already dark out. I pulled myself out of bed and into the kitchen. And staring at me, stealing my breath and seizing my heart, was the single, blinking red eye of the answering machine. It was ridiculous. No one knew the number. No one /could/ know the number. I pressed the 'play' button. "Hello dear. It's me again. I hope you're all rested?" His voice. I could see the smile behind it. "I want you to be plenty awake for tomorrow. We've got a big day ahead of us, after all. I won't bother with calling again, though. I'm sure you'd just get bored." Oh God, no. Please, no. This isn't happening, I haven't woken up yet. I'll wake up, and it'll be gone and this won't be happening to me oh God... Today. I haven't slept yet. I'm sitting on my couch, watching the front door. The longest kitchen knife I own is by my hand. And I'm waiting, because I can't bring myself to do anything else. And something twists in the room. "Sheryl. So nice to see you waiting for me. Have you missed me?" I try to be graceful. I try to turn around to face him, scooping up the knife. My knees collapse and I'm sitting on the floor, looking up at him through the tears that are already starting. He's walking towards me as I hear the knife clattering from numbed fingers. He's squatting in front of me now, and I'm trying to back away but it never seems to work, I never seem to gain any distance. His hand is out, and I have to steel myself not to faint when surprisingly soft hands touch my cheek. "Today's the day, Sheryl..." My eyes are squeezed shut now, my cheeks soaked with tears from the fear and his skin on mine. "W...why me? I just write books..." He nods, his hand moving from my cheek to pick up the knife. "I know you do, baby. That /is/ why. See, Sheryl, people like your books. Your books help them. And we just can't have that. Do you understand?" Please no, God. He can't mean it. I can't move, I can barely breathe. My heart is irregular, staggering under the strain, I can't take it any more and my jaw clenches. "Just get it over with..." I open my eyes in time to see that same hour-long smile as light glints from the knife. He kisses me on the forehead. "Thank you." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:18:55 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> Bound! David Streeter wrote: > > Questions about the Bound discord... > > If a celestial has the Bound discord, but more than one vessel, are > there any problems changing vessels? Can a celestial with the Bound > discord have more than one vessel? I believe that the Celestial could have multiple vessels. The discord goes with the Celestial not with the vessel. I would say that they can switch vessels but need to make a will roll with the associated penalty of the level of discord. > If a celestial is bound to an object, and that object is destroyed, what > happens? For that matter, if he is bound to his vessel, and the vessel > is slain, what happens? If the object is destroyed I would imagine that the Celestial would suffer the dissonance and either be compelled to obey the commands of anyone who carried pieces of it. Another option would be that the Celestial would be compelled to try and repair the item using songs/craftmanship/whatever. Also they could begin to bond with another item and over time that item would become the focus of their discord. Finally, they could simply switch to the other kind of discord where they are trapped within their current vessel on the corporeal plane. As the discord goes with the Celestial not with the vessel I would imagine that if the Celestial is killed that they would assend/descend and suffer trauma normally. If they get another vessel and return they would continue to suffer from the bound discord. Life is rough. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:25:54 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> To the devil, his due Black night, Grey skies, a European Town The striplights in the room seemed very harsh. They hadn't been turned off in 5 days and 6 nights and the low flickering buzz had become almost hypnotic. That the room was an attic of some description was evident from the low-slung beams that cut it into thick V-shaped slices. Although roomy, it was windowless. For all that, it was or had been lavishly decorated. The bright lights were cruel to the wallpaper which had once been a gold and crimson regency stripe, the mahogany cabinet and the coffee-table with its exquisite inlaid marquetry. Whatever they had once been, they were desecrated now. Every inch of wall was covered in scribbled writing, either in pen, in pencil, in something red that might have been lipstick or paint and even something brownish that might have been dried blood - with the word 'evil'. It was carved frantically into the table, and into the wardrobe. Books had been flung heedlessly from a now-broken set of shelves onto the floor, and pages ripped out. The plum-coloured velvet upholstery of the chaise longue had been ruined with long knife-rips and a ethereal porcelain statuette in the art deco style lay in shattered fragments on the floor, as it had done for the last 5 nights. A figure sat slumped on the remains of the chaise-longue, as it also had done for the last 5 nights -- holding its head in its hands, unkempt brown hair falling forwards over its face. The other man in the room ignored the figure and continued to address himself to a full-length mirror, having painstakingly cleaned the worst of the writing off it with a damp handkerchief. "Sometimes, mon cher," he said, the accent melodious and almost comically French, "I cannot help but feel zat you are still in denial. Sad, non?" He took a half step back and inspected the mirror again, ignoring the lack of response from behind him. The reflection that turned its head slightly to one side and smiled crookedly into the room was of a man so perfectly, inhumanly beautiful that his face seemed to suck the very light out of the air. It wore the notoriously gorgeous features of the vessel which had once been described by Mata Hari, the most celebrated of his (many) lovers as 'it was as though I were looking at Lucifer, before The Fall.' A singularly appropriate compliment, he had made her repeat it several times. On this occasion he was wearing the pale Vivienne Westwood suit which had so caught his attention on the Paris catwalk, with a flame-coloured waistcoat and nothing more in the way of shirt or tie. Even rags or ripped bin-liners could not have marred the confident carriage, the tilted cheekbones, the strong shoulders, the sensuous lips -- although the concept of ill-grooming or dirt struck him with such distaste that even in this room which had only been destroyed and neglected for under a week, he could barely hide his disgust. He stroked a fingertip along the waistcoat lapel thoughtfully, "Zis.. paranoia, it is pas jolie. Do you think zis shade of red is perhaps a leetle too intense, Valentine?" "They let you in, didn't they?" asked the other demon dully. In contrast with his preening companion, his accent was solidly English, and toneless. "And that isn't my name. I know why you are here." "Perhaps if it were a touch paler, like the first dance of a winter sunrise over ze snow...?" The Englishman's voice was soft and bitter, like blanched almonds. "They sent you to break me, like the last time, like every time there has ever been. Don't think I'm not ready. Don't think I'm going to let them get me.." The reflection in the mirror pursed its lips in indecision, then the man whirled, eyes flashing fire. "Are you deaf as well as mad?" he spat. "I asked do.you.think.this.shade.of.red.is.too.intense?" Perfect lips peeled up to reveal perfect teeth The demons locked gazes for a long moment, then the Englishman covered his face with his hands, defeated. "Its perfect," he whispered painfully. "Always perfect, L'Envie." He sounded as though he might have cried had he any tears left. "That's how they will use you." Ignoring those comments in which he had no interest, L'Envie allowed a devastatingly indulgent smile. "I think perhaps it will do very well," he agreed. "Really it is vairy tedious zat you sit here and rot. Did I pluck you from ze jaws of ze Game for zis? I think not, mon ami. I think not." He regarded the seated man with no great interest before addressing himself to his jacket cuffs, straightening each one in turn with obsessive neatness. He turned to the door. "Don't leave me," the other man muttered, "She left. They took her away." "Ze child?" L'Envie was amused by what he had created from the raw material which the archangel of creation had so thoughtfully provided, and not for the first time. "Mais mon cher, she left a note." He plucked a crumpled sheet of paper from an immaculate pocket with his fingertips. "I took ze liberty of..." The other man pushed a lank lock of hair away from his face and stared up at him, a touch of desperation shining though the wooden uncertainty in his eyes. "There was a note? You took it. You knew!" L'Envie shrugged in gallic fashion. "By all means have it," he said idly, unconcerned, and dropped it at the Balseraph's feet. "It had slipped my mind - - I 'ad other things to do, Valentine. This is your just deserts for becoming too attached to ze world." The man on the couch gritted his teeth, "I /fell/. And that is /not/ my name. It was never my name. Do you hear me?!" A flicker of anger lit up his eyes, the first sign of any life, as he retrieved the note. The Frenchman turned back to the mirror and toyed with his collar. "She is in America. Also, I 'ave a small commission for you in New York -- I presume you intend to follow her there?" L'Envie struck a pose and admired his reflection, before answering his own question. "Of course you do. So zis will not be at all out of your way." The other man read the scribbled message with hungry eyes, and then reread it. "I owe you nothing," he muttered. "I made you what you now are," the Frenchman intoned, "And I can unmake you also. For zat you owe me. I also think you might consider seeing an analyst, I believe zey can do marvellous things these days." The other demon regarded him coldly. "Maybe you're right," he murmured. "Maybe I do owe you. One day perhaps I will watch you die with such drama and such tragedy that it will set the world aflame with brilliance." L'Envie nodded carelessly, "You sound better already," he observed without turning. "'owever, I am still not entirely convinced about zis red. Pairhaps I will 'ave it bleached a fragment." The man on the couch simply watched him; his nondescript face was unhealthily tight with suppressed emotion. "'Set the world aflame with brilliance'," the demon of Fashion mused aloud as he left his protege to its own devices. "I rather like zat. You 'ave a certain of style. I think I return it with one piece of advice for you -- Faites que le Diable tienne parole..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:14:33 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: Shedim and Possession (Re: IN> Fallen) Beth replied: >>In the film, Azazel, a shedite (wasn't he supposed to be a grigori?) can >>possess animals as well as humans...I wonder if this is something that >>we shall see in the IPG? Expanded resonance perhaps? > >Nononononononono. (Animals obviously don't have enough moral sense >to "selfish-ize" in the Shedite way. And you don't want to know what >Jordi would do to one using the Song of Possession to an animal...) > Lets's not get back on to cats... };> >If you got a Prince of the right Word (Fallen Jordi!!), then that >would be where Shedim possessing animals would show up, probably. Caim - Prince of Beasts! Anybody wanna do a write up? (looks hopefully t'ward Hitherby :) ) > >>And... whilst I'm on this subject... :) >>Does a celestial possessing a human still count *as* a human for >>purposes of a shedite wishing to possess it? Reason for asking is that >>damage dealt to a kyrios host makes noise in the Symphony, implying that >>it is. > >A Shedite or Kyrio in a host causes disturbance if they break something >*and* a celestial damaging the host will cause disturbance. If a Shedite >wants to possess someone and there's already a Kyrio or someone using >the Song of Possession there, then I think the rules are in the APG... > >p. APG56, first full paragraph on the page. > So they can then. >>Does the same hold true for somebody using the Song of Possession? > > I'd say so, sure. > Obliged, - -- Jules ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:51:08 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: IN> Haagenti's Menu So. Haagenti has devoured quite a few rivals on his way to the top and we now find that he ate Mariel, Princess of Oblivion (it's in the LR). Who *was* the Prince of Sloth and did Haagenti also eat the Princes/Princesses of Envy, Pride, and Wrath? (Of course, the *real* reason that Haagenti hasn't eaten Mammon yet is because of his ulcers... His doc said that he should avoid rich foods) - -- Jules - Demon of Heartburn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:39:40 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: Shedim and Possession (Re: IN> Fallen) > >If you got a Prince of the right Word (Fallen Jordi!!), then that > >would be where Shedim possessing animals would show up, probably. Andrealphas? ;-) (OK, I actually think Shedim of the Game can possess animals. They don't need to corrupt their hosts and it is too handy a way to spy on demons) jo 'Meme si Dieu existait il faudrait Le supprimer' (Even if God existed we'd have to suppress Him) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:50:20 +0200 From: Ijon Tichy Subject: Re: IN> Wandering Jew? **OOPS** I've just realized I had attached a Word DOC file to this message. I forgot myself and my list manners. Terribly sorry. You probably never saw this message then, as it was no doubt bounced by Archangel Beth here. Therefore, I wish to atone by sending this message again, this time with a URL for the DOC file instead of an attachment. (Beth, am I forgiven?) Ijon At 23:08 17/03/98 -0500, someone wrote: > >> can anybody give some info on him? Here's something that might interest you: Serendipitously, one of my players (Yossi Gurvitz) has submitted the character I include below (MS-Word format, plaintext avail. on request) for my approval before joining my game. This followed his reading of a book I lent him: "Ahasver" by Stefan Heim, ISBN: 0030641535 and also ISBN: 0394620887, sometimes going by the title "Wandering Jew". A marvelous rendition of the myth and an intertwined story with the age of the protestant reformation. Highly recommended. The character is at http://www.forum2.org/ijon/theodorus.doc and includes extensive history. Enjoy! - -- Ijon Tichy Sailing the 'net in the only e-mail: ijon@forum2.org Space Barrel known to man. Homepage: http://www.forum2.org/ijon MOO: VotSB, telnet://forum2.org:7777 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 12:08 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) [SurturZ:] >Hmm. That is a point. However, I like the AD&D style of play where >inexperienced characters improve more quickly than experienced >characters. This means if a character dies or is replaced etc the >replacement catches up with experienced characters in a reasonable >timeframe (although the older characters should be always that little >bit better to reward survival). I've actually never had a problem with this in a game -- most of the systems I play in, a character's contribution to the game and survivability generally have more to do with the character design than with the number of experience points they have. Also note that IN's reward system is *very* vague in canon, and characters will tend to get rewarded by Superiors in very different ways for the same actions. Thus, there's a lot of GM flexibility in balancing characters by differential rewards. Another thing to keep in mind is that you don't want characters evolving in Forces too fast -- in canon, it is not possible to exceed 18 Forces total, and 6 in each type. Since Forces are rather useful in a number of ways, players are likely to want them. This suggests that Superiors should reward PCs with specific attunements, Songs, Roles, or artifacts, rather than just giving out "brownie points" for later favors. GM- (as opposed to Superior-)awarded experience points should probably be kept to a minimum. This is probably best for game flavor, anyway, though I admit I tend to just give out points, at least so far, not having actually finished my first plot line, so I don't want to drag Superiors into the middle of things. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 12:15 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Bound! >If a celestial has the Bound discord, but more than one vessel, are >there any problems changing vessels? Can a celestial with the Bound >discord have more than one vessel? I would think changing vessels would have the same problems as going celestial. It's probably not terribly helpful to have more than one vessel with Bound. >If a celestial is bound to an object, and that object is destroyed, what >happens? For that matter, if he is bound to his vessel, and the vessel >is slain, what happens? I think John Karakesh answered the latter question a while back, but it doesn't seem to be in the FAQ. I believe the answer was roughly that the celestial would be stuck with the vessel until Trauma ended, at which point they would be bounced home, I think. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:39:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) In the non-IN campaign I play in, we have an objective formula for character advancement that I like. We roll percentile dice in play. If your stat is X, you want to roll X% or lower. After a session, you make a "learning roll" for each stat you used successfully during the session. On the learning roll, you want to roll *higher* than X%. If you succeed, you go up. (There's a formula for how much you go up, but I won't drag it in here.) This not only has the advantage of being objective, it gives a natural "learning curve" to the improvement rate. The improvement is slow at first, because you don't often succeed and so don't often qualify to make a learning roll. It is fastest in the middle, then slows down again, since, though you often succeed, it gets harder and harder to make the learning roll. Adapting this to IN, you roll above the stat with 2d6 and, if you succeed, go up by one point. If this seems too fast, make the rule that you go up by one point after (say) three successful learning rolls. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 12:31 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: Free Lilim >Ik! I don't like this. Geasanna make great backgrounds and I would be >tempted to give geasanna to a wide variety of infernal characters. But, >three points is quite obviously too much. I'm thinking probably one point >per level. Which means it'll take a level five geas to get a band >attunement. If I allowed characters to take Geases for points, I'd probably give them a point for every 2 levels of Geas or so, with variations depending on circumstances. (For an angel to owe a Geas to a Demon Prince is obviously more problem than for a random PC demon to owe a favor to a random Lilim.) >Also, I don't like the idea of measuring geaanna in terms of time. I >think it's the wrong way to deal with them. For example, level 6 geas, >lead a raid on a heavily defended tether of Laurence would naturally only >take an hour or so to repay. While the level 1 geas, keep an eye on such >and such a member of your group and report anything suspicious to me could >take months to repay. (This assumes a demon, obviously it's different >costs for different people - it would be a lot to ask of a Cherub to >report his associates, for example.) There's going to be more guidelines for this sort of thing in a future supplement. What you're saying above is pretty much in line with them. Generally, there'll be a suggested time/difficulty tradeoff, plus a couple of other factors that might come up. >I think 'Free' Lilim would actually rarely have their geasanna called in. >You just get called before, say, Beleth, told she has 6 levels of geas on >you, and then offered a band attunement to carry out the mission. Weak >willed power hungry lilim will always take the goodies and never get rid >of any geasanna. In my game, the Superior would *never* offer to pay a Lilim something if they had a Geas on them -- why go through all that trouble? For the Free Lilim trying to get an attunement (or whatever), I'd work it more like: - Lilim approaches Superior asking for attunement X. - if the Lilim actually has something worthwhile to offer, the Superior bargains with her, either for an unspecified future service (a Geas) or some specific service now - the Lilim Geases herself to whatever the deal is - if the service was immediate, the Lilim performs it - Superior grants attunement (unless the Lilim screwed up enough to justify weaseling out) And yes, Free Lilim *will* tend to accumulate Geases. The problem with indiscriminate Geasing (especially for future favors) is that sometimes Geases are called in at the same time, and conflict. At which point the Lilim is in trouble.... > A strong willed Lilim should of course say no - to the offer >forcing the Superior to call in the geas. Particularly daring lilim could >try ask for more in the knowledge that the superior will be reluctant to >use up a geas and lose a chance to call in the lilim later when she is >really needed. I don't think this is really an issue... there are always Lilim around, and Lilith is always making new ones. The best situation for a Free Lilim is to have a lot of special abilities, so that DPs are looking for *her*, not a generic Lilim. That puts the Lilim in a much better bargaining position. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:49:09 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) In my last post, I wrote: > Adapting this to IN, you roll above the stat with 2d6 This would have to be 1d6. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:08:14 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) Earl, do you realize that this sounds exactly like Chaosium's BRP (Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, Pendragon, Nephilim, etc.) system? If you succeed in a roll, you place a check next to it on the character sheet. At the end of an adventure, you roll d100. If you roll higher than your skill (or stat, or whatever), you get to add a 1d6 (or sometimes 1d10) to the skill. Now, I wonder if you have to pay Greg Stafford royalties? :) Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7789233/ UIN: 7789233 MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing. - ---------- > From: Earl Wajenberg > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) > Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 12:39 PM > > In the non-IN campaign I play in, we have an objective formula for > character advancement that I like. We roll percentile dice in play. > If your stat is X, you want to roll X% or lower. After a session, > you make a "learning roll" for each stat you used successfully > during the session. On the learning roll, you want to roll *higher* > than X%. If you succeed, you go up. (There's a formula for how > much you go up, but I won't drag it in here.) > > This not only has the advantage of being objective, it gives a > natural "learning curve" to the improvement rate. The improvement > is slow at first, because you don't often succeed and so don't often > qualify to make a learning roll. It is fastest in the middle, then > slows down again, since, though you often succeed, it gets harder > and harder to make the learning roll. > > Adapting this to IN, you roll above the stat with 2d6 and, if you > succeed, go up by one point. If this seems too fast, make the > rule that you go up by one point after (say) three successful learning > rolls. > > Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:34:54 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) Thomas Davidson wrote: > Earl, do you realize that this sounds exactly like Chaosium's BRP > (Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, Pendragon, Nephilim, etc.) system? If > you succeed in a roll, you place a check next to it on the character > sheet. At the end of an adventure, you roll d100. If you roll > higher than your skill (or stat, or whatever), you get to add a 1d6 > (or sometimes 1d10) to the skill. > > Now, I wonder if you have to pay Greg Stafford royalties? :) It's parallel evolution, I think. We made up the rule set we use. We call it FuRPiG, and the mechanics were based on favorite features of many other systems. We concocted FuRPiG around 1983. We've never tried to market it. (We picked the name FuRPiG as too ridiculous to risk being duplicated by a commercial system. Then someone named a system "GURPS.") Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:30:23 -0500 From: Soviet Subject: IN> vessels? Okay I have a couple of questions about vessels: 1) when a celestial creates a vessel,does he really creates it?or does he just posses a human that fits his vessels description? If he creates it then how does one explain the background for it,especially those with high role and status? dothey just appear without no one being the wiser? 2) on vessel death:ok when a vessel dies were does the character gets the points to buy a new one? does he gets the exact amount of points used in the first vessel or does he has to put new points for it(losing those of the original vessel)? - -- "I want that power. By right, it is mine. For ultimate power is the ultimate destiny of Doom." Spectacular Spider-Man #159 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:03:54 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: Shedim and Possession (Re: IN> Fallen) On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Julian Breen wrote: > >If you got a Prince of the right Word (Fallen Jordi!!), then that > >would be where Shedim possessing animals would show up, probably. > > Caim - Prince of Beasts! Anybody wanna do a write up? > (looks hopefully t'ward Hitherby :) ) Check out the INC. There's a nice prince of Beasts there, Beezlebub. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 15:06 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Rewards and character evolution (was Re: IN> Re: IN- Free Lilim) >In the non-IN campaign I play in, we have an objective formula for >character advancement that I like. We roll percentile dice in play. >If your stat is X, you want to roll X% or lower. After a session, >you make a "learning roll" for each stat you used successfully >during the session. On the learning roll, you want to roll *higher* >than X%. If you succeed, you go up. (There's a formula for how >much you go up, but I won't drag it in here.) Roughly like the Chaosium system, if I recall it right. This lends itself to the "I'll use every skill I can to qualify for improvement" munchkin syndrome. The canonical case, paraphrased: PC#1: "Why are you using that battle axe on the troll? You're a broadsword expert!" PC#2: "Because I don't know how to use an axe, and this is the only way to learn." I far prefer the point-based advancement systems myself, with some GM guidance/aproval in spending points. I normally only let people spend points on things they could plausibly acquire or improve, and my players are pretty good about this. Of course, good players aren't subject to munchkinism, anyway. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:10:33 -0500 From: Soviet Subject: IN> The Endless Hi,You must have guess it by now , I'm a huge fan of DC Vertigo andwas planning on adding the Endless(Death,Dream,Destiny,etc).. for my campaign.... Okay How could the Endless be madeinto the In Nomine Setting,would they just replace the Archangels of the same word or would they be powerful Ethereals(or maybe both)? - -- "I want that power. By right, it is mine. For ultimate power is the ultimate destiny of Doom." Spectacular Spider-Man #159 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:26:08 EST From: Mideval Subject: Re: IN> vessels? On 98-03-19 13:52:30 EST, rnieves@coqui.net (Soviet) wrote: >Okay I have a couple of questions about vessels: >1) when a celestial creates a vessel,does he really creates it?or does >he just posses a human that fits his vessels description? If he >creates it then how does one explain the background for it,especially >those with high role and status? dothey just appear without no one >being the wiser? I believe that celestials do create their own vessels instead of just possessing a corporeal being that fits their needs (except for Kyriotates and Shedim who cannot own a vessel). I don't know the canon on this but it makes sense to me. Background, Role and Status are then woven into the Symphony along with the vessel. Once the vessel is one with the Symphony then it is like that person has always been there. >2) on vessel death:ok when a vessel dies were does the character gets >the points to buy a new one? does he gets the exact amount of points >used in the first vessel or does he has to put new points for >it(losing those of the original vessel)? Hmm, hope you saved some character points just in case your vessel does bite it. In my campaign if you lose your vessel you must pay for a new one (if you want to return to Earth that is). Depending on how the vessel died determines if the character loses any Roles or Status. ie: Being gunned down on the 6 o'clock news tends to let mortals know you're dead. Hope this info helps and is halfway correct. o:) Mideval ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 15:31 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> vessels? >1) when a celestial creates a vessel,does he really creates it?or does >he just posses a human that fits his vessels description? If he >creates it then how does one explain the background for it,especially >those with high role and status? dothey just appear without no one >being the wiser? First of all, celestials don't create vessels (usually), their Superiors do. Only Kyriotates and Shedim possess existing people. Unless the vessel has a Role, it's just a person with no background -- no papers, no friends, no job. Both celestials and Superiors can contribute to creating a Role. The celestial does it himself the hard way, the same way a human would create a fake identity -- by living it and acquiring (usually forged) documentation. However, most celestials have the advantage of a built-in support network of other celestials who serve the same Superior or allied ones. Some of these have Roles that let them create Roles for others (this is mentioned in Night Music). Also, there is some implication that Superiors can create Roles. Whether this is through commanding servitors in the appropriate positions (DMV workers, IRS clerks, job references), or by some more esoteric means (instilling false memories in humans, perhaps), isn't entirely clear -- it's probably a mixture of both. >2) on vessel death:ok when a vessel dies were does the character gets >the points to buy a new one? does he gets the exact amount of points >used in the first vessel or does he has to put new points for >it(losing those of the original vessel)? This question is in the FAQ (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq/). The basic answer is that it depends on the GM and probably on the Superior involved and the PC's current status with his Superior. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:44:59 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Endless If you want to be true to both IN and Vertigo, the Endless should be neither ethereals nor celestials -- just themselves. As to where they fit in the power scale, "Season of Mists" shows that Dream is clearly more powerful than a demon and admits freely that he is nowhere near as powerful as Lucifer. Which leaves you to decide how the Endless stack up against Archangels or Demon Princes. I don't think they should be equal or near it. I would recommend that, though less powerful than Lucifer, an Endless is still much more powerful than most Archangels. This is because you have to fit Dream, Beleth, and Blandine all into the same ethereal realm, which is clearly the same place as the Dreaming. And Dream *IS* the Dreaming, in a personified aspect. To me, the best way to relate him to Beleth and Blandine is to suppose he could toast either of them, but remains strictly neutral to both because such toasting would bring down the wrath of their more powerful allies. Likewise, I think Death regards Saminga as a disgusting little creep she would cheerfully introduce herself to, but it's not her place to *kill*, just collect, so she restrains herself. Another reason for making the Endless more powerful than DPs and AAs is that the latter are pretty much limited in scope to Earth, in the IN canon, while the Endless, in *their* canon, are emphatically cosmic, involved in every age, planet, and timeline. If you wanted to make the Endless be celestials, I'd put them in one of the upper heavens. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:13:17 -0500 From: "Mark McKenzie" Subject: Re: IN> The Endless Soviet wrote: > > Hi,You must have guess it by now , I'm a huge fan of DC Vertigo andwas Consider the Juris from "House of Secrets". Pretty good servitors of Dominic, although you'd have to jigger either the game rules or the backgrounds of the Juris, since humans don't become celestials in canon IN (at least last I heard). > planning on adding the Endless(Death,Dream,Destiny,etc).. for my > campaign.... > Okay How could the Endless be madeinto the In Nomine Setting,would > they just replace the Archangels of the same word or would they be > powerful Ethereals(or maybe both)? > The most logical option would probably be "powerful Ethereals" who come into constant conflict with AA/DP's whose Word(s) they are intruding on. The Endless don't strike me as angelic or diabolic. - -- Mark McKenzie E-mail: markadv@kinekom.com ICQ 7946364 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #685 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.