From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Mar 25 00:19:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA24767 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:19:39 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id AAA30476 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:17:30 -0600 Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:17:30 -0600 Message-Id: <199803250617.AAA30476@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #694 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, March 25 1998 Volume 01 : Number 694 In this digest: IN> Summoning a Superior IN> Out of Order, Baal can read, and happy contradiction. Re: IN> Summoning a Superior Re: IN> Out of Order, Baal can read, and happy contradiction. Re: IN> Uriel and Rutger Hauer Re: IN> Out of Order, Baal can read, and happy contradiction. Re: IN> Out of Order, Baal can read, and happy contradiction. Re: IN> Why Uriel got pulled out Re: IN> Is it real or Ethereal? Re: IN> Why Uriel got pulled out Re: IN> An apology for Uriel Re: IN> Summoning a Superior IN> Re: IN- NC: Acid IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Ramped advancement? Re: IN> NC: Acid Re: IN> Why Uriel got pulled out IN> Why Uriel got pulled out IN> Uriel v. Anti-Puritans: round 1 scores IN> Uriel and Creatures of Myth Re: In Nomine Fiction/Erotica (Re: IN> IN Correspondance) IN> In Nomine Superior PBEM--Dalarond ArchAngel of the Crucible IN> New Discords & A Guide to Life as a Creationer Re: IN> An apology for Uriel Re: IN> List Consensus (was Re: IN> Anti-Puritans) Re: IN> Re: IN- NC: Acid Re: IN> In Nomine Superior PBEM--Dalarond ArchAngel of the Crucible IN> Variant Experience Systems ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:11:47 -0500 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: IN> Summoning a Superior Just read through the FAQ and realized I had a quick question... How *long* does it take to invoke a Superior? Just GM's whim, or is there usually a set amount of time? Uh oh time to go...thanks! SeanMike in an odd mood today - -- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:21:46 PST From: "Chris Crowe" Subject: IN> Out of Order, Baal can read, and happy contradiction. First things first. >>>Dear Rich, Please do not insult those of us who believe that God is a really dumb idea by implying that God really does exist. We all know that it's just a big government conspiracy. Thank you, Perry M. Lloyd<<< Completely un-called for penis brain. Our religous views are our own buisiness, i don't like god any either, but i keep it (mostly) off-list. do the same. Oh, and you end up contradicting yourself later in that posting by saying you DO believe in Yahweh, so get your own facts straight before mouthing off like some kind of jackass. Back to buisiness. >>>Keep the framing story in mind. This is what *Kronos* told Baal happened. I think you are free to declare whatever you want to be the truth and still remain in canon.<<< Actually Baal was reading from a book and not listening to Kronos at that time. >>>No it doesn't! The first paragraph specifically states that God *did* make the dragons and their ilk. The second paragraph states that Uriel vows to destroy things not *of* God, such as creations of Man, ethereal spirits, and living dreams. How does this contradict the first statement???<<< But that's exactly what we're discussing. god made creatures of myth (says so in the 1st Paragraph of that quote) when he(Uriel) is speaking in the 2nd Paragraph he's speaking ABOUT the creatures of myth he slew in the Marches. Therefore, it DOES contradict itself. SJG may not have meant to, but it does contradict itself. that just may not be the way you read it. i'll go thru it again just to make sure though. Krowe, Malakim of Destiny, (Arch)Angel of Redemption ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:38:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Summoning a Superior At 4:11 PM -0500 3/24/98, Sean Michael Whipkey wrote: >Just read through the FAQ and realized I had a quick question... > >How *long* does it take to invoke a Superior? Just GM's whim, or is there >usually a set amount of time? p. 109, 2nd column, 2nd paragraph: "Invoking an Archangel takes 2 turns -- roughly 10 seconds." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:35:28 -0500 (EST) From: Wildcard Subject: Re: IN> Out of Order, Baal can read, and happy contradiction. On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Chris Crowe wrote: > First things first. > > >>>Dear Rich, > > Please do not insult those of us who believe that God is a > really dumb idea by implying that God really does exist. We all know > that it's just a big government conspiracy. > > Thank you, > Perry M. Lloyd<<< > > Completely un-called for penis brain. Um, is anyone else detecting the heavy irony here? WC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:35:16 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Uriel and Rutger Hauer On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Chris Crowe wrote: > >I just seem to visualize [Uriel] as Rutger Hauer for some reason< > > You know, i think you're right. Have you seen Blind Fury? A blind guy > with a katana kicking everybodies asses. Definatly a Soldier of God > there. Actually, I was thinking of him in Split Second. I just have this image of Uriel in the closing days of the Purification Crusade, announcing: "No, I don't need sleep. I need chocolate. And coffee. And bigger fucking guns." Blind Fury might be better for Uriel the way he behaves in my campaign now (he returned Sunday). Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:37:13 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Out of Order, Baal can read, and happy contradiction. > Completely un-called for penis brain. Our religous views are our own > buisiness, i don't like god any either, but i keep it (mostly) off-list. > do the same. > Oh, and you end up contradicting yourself later in that posting by > saying you DO believe in Yahweh, so get your own facts straight before > mouthing off like some kind of jackass. Excuse me, but can you please take this kind of commentary off list? Thanks. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:54:10 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Out of Order, Baal can read, and happy contradiction. At 4:35 PM -0500 3/24/98, Wildcard wrote: >On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Chris Crowe wrote: >> Perry M. Lloyd<<< [various taunting deleted >Um, is anyone else detecting the heavy irony here? I'm detecting a very annoyed list admin *right here*. If any more childish stuff, with or without smilies, crosses my screen, I'm going to go into Demon Princess mode and do some unsubscribing. (It does not pertain to IN, it doesn't amuse me, and I'm in a really nasty mood right now. Don't cross the Djinn Princess.) - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:45:36 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Why Uriel got pulled out On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: > Dear Rich, > > Please do not insult those of us who believe that God is a really > dumb idea by implying that God really does exist. We all know that it's > just a big government conspiracy. Well, I hardly thought of myself as being insulting. Just annoyed. sorry if I upset anyone else on the list. Any particular goverment? Or just all of them? And wouldn't that make the symbol of Christianity an unblinking eye in a pyramid instead of a cross? :) Rich Gant surrendering his soapbox once again ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:48:02 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Is it real or Ethereal? On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > Keep the framing story in mind. This is what *Kronos* told Baal > happened. I think you are free to declare whatever you want to be > the truth and still remain in canon. :) Good call. Damn balseraphs, the can even resonate through paper... Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:50:23 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Why Uriel got pulled out On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Actually, best yet, don't bother doing *too* much discussion of > RL God (if any exists, since there are probably some on the list > who *don't* so believe). If it's not pertaining to IN, then it's > not appropriate. My point, actually. Obviously, I'm religious. Obviously, others aren't. When I come to the list, I put more or less put aside my beliefs to discuss a game. I just expect the others to do the same. Rich Gant PS: I'll shut up about this, now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:55:50 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> An apology for Uriel On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Julian Breen wrote: > > >But, there has been no real explanation of why uriel was taken or what is > >hapening to him (or her, whatever; I just seem to visualize him as Rutger > >Hauer for some reason). > > In what? "The Hitcher" ? Yeah. And Split Second. And Blade Runner. And Blind Fury. But not in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But mostly Split Second. Obsessive, driven, convinced he's doing the right thing, and can't understand why people won't just leave him alone and let him do it. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 98 18:04 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Summoning a Superior >How *long* does it take to invoke a Superior? Just GM's whim, or is there >usually a set amount of time? The invocation is quick, how long they take to respond is more questionable. Generally I assume that a successful invocation means the Superior shows up *roughly* right away. That is, within a few minutes at most. I assume unsuccessful invocations are at least noticed, and the invoker may get a response (not necessarily a personal appearance) in CD days or so, if the invocation seemed interesting but not critical. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:30:28 PST From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Re: IN- NC: Acid >Tongue => Word. Rather than smacking people around with your tongye, you >speak a rather forcefuul (and loud) Word that is so holy-yet-terrible that >it has the potential of doing Mind Damage. BIFF! KAPOW! :-) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:48:22 PST From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Ramped advancement? >I don't see the distinction between GM rewards and Superior rewards as >being permanent and transitory, respectively -- the Superior can >*always* remove something they don't like from a Servitor, no matter how >the offender got it. I agree with you. My concept of permanent and transitory rewards are an out of character thing, and are more a GMs' guideline. If your characters are constantly put back to square one in terms of character points, your players might get frustrated. I believe a player should always be able to look back and say "yes, my character is more powerful than when he started". This is simply as an incentive to keep turning up each week. Some individuals may not care about XP, but in my experience, most players find spending XP a bit of a buzz. XP also softens the blow of the most frustrating and unproductive game session (like it or not, they do happen) - you always end on a high point. It's Pavlovian, I suppose. Of course, occasionally you might run a flash-back or weird module where the player goes backwards. But the loss of points in these circumstances should be temporary. And, even though you can't justify it in RP terms, PLAYERS should still get XP for those adventures. IMHO SurturZ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:50:16 -0500 (EST) From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> NC: Acid According to Nana Yaw Ofori: > Tongue => Word. Rather than smacking people around with your tongye, you > speak a rather forcefuul (and loud) Word that is so holy-yet-terrible that > it has the potential of doing Mind Damage. One of my characters uses Tongue, doing mind damage, a lot. It kind of renders those "combat monster Calabim" as a moot point. Guess I'm going to have to deal with that here soon. heehee! (Of course, he has given one of the NPCs in FoB an insanity; that'll be interesting.) SeanMike - -- __^\ | SeanMike Whipkey |"I let my mind wander __/ *--|--Perth| Professional Student|and it never came back." / \ | GWAR Cyberslave | - Calvin, - --------- | Too Much Free Time?!| "Calvin&Hobbes" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:32:21 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> Why Uriel got pulled out At 10:23 AM 24/03/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Heretic103 wrote: > >> << God doesn't destroy angels >> >> Funny but the selfish bastard kills numbers of humans at a whim and leaves >> nothing but broken dreams when he feels like it > >Bitter, ain't ya? > >Since we appear to have segued off into IRL beliefs about God here, how do >you support this claim? Selfish? Support it. I've never seen it in >scripture. Unless, of course, you resent his "irrational" demand to be >worshipped as the only true and living God; of course, if you accept the >idea that God is real as described in scripture, he kind of has theat >right. In scripture, God *is* the only true God. > >Kills numbers of people at a whim? Again, support it. Scripturally. >Sure, He has killed a lot of people. But not at a whim, and not without >warning. When the killing comes, they had been warned it would come. > >Broken dreams? Sounds like a personal problem. > >In short, kindly remember that some of us on this list really do believe >in God. If you're going to make wild accusations about Him (or anyone >else someone might care for/about), kindly back them up. Or better yet, >don't troll by making the statement in the first place. > >Thank you, >Rich Gant > > >And some of us don't believe in God but that's not the point, the point is In Nomine itself is a game that tries not to step on anybody's toes too hard, although there critism on those who practice magick weas uncalled for, I can only ascertain that it was only for game purposes and working in with Canon that they said what they said. No one wants to start a Flame War via religion, if history is anything to go by then it could only end up bloody! Simon, Demon Prince of Pearls ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:27:44 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Why Uriel got pulled out >>>Kills numbers of people at a whim? Again, support it. Scripturally. Sure, He has killed a lot of people. But not at a whim, and not without warning. When the killing comes, they had been warned it would come.<<< If you don't take this off-list, I _will_ start posting my favorite Biblical Inconsistencies and Examples of God as an Evil Tyrant. - -David (you don't *really* want this flamewar :)) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:27:50 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Uriel v. Anti-Puritans: round 1 scores >>>No, i think you're wrong here. i don't have the Marches with me, but Uriel says they (creatures of myth) WERE creatures of God if my memory serves correctly.<<< No, I know I'm right here. Trust me. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:50:15 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Uriel and Creatures of Myth >>>Huh? Not according to *my* copy of The Marches. Page 4... Uriel acknowledges that they were the creations of God yet destroyed them because they had consorted with Evil.<<< _Some_ of the creatures of myth may have had a natural origin, such as dragons. But when they were altered from their original "God-given" design (by interbreeding with celestials and/or ethereals, for example), they ceased to be God's creatures. At least according to Uriel. Some of the other creatures of myth may have been entirely conceived of in the Marches, and through various means yet unspecified came to have a corporeal presence. Of course, as someone else pointed out, this was all related in a conversation between two Demon Princes, so there is some justification to weasel out of any conclusions you don't like. ;) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:05:58 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Kinney Subject: Re: In Nomine Fiction/Erotica (Re: IN> IN Correspondance) On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A LAWYER, I AM NOT SJ GAMES LEGAL STAFF. IF YOU > WANT REAL ANSWERS, GO TO THEIR WEBSITE AND ASK -- THERE ARE CONTACT > ADDRESSES THERE. > Same goes for me, but a few clarifications based on my own research (as an aspiring writer who actually bought all those stupid stylebooks for something I never have time to do, and as a Negativland fan who followed the whole U2 debacle; I also took a media law class in college [AB in Broadcasting] so take this as you will.) > At 12:55 AM -0500 3/24/98, Jesse wrote: > >Yes but does SJG have a legal monopoly on In Nomine? > The SJ Games version, in English? Yes. They do. Croc also has a > monopoly on it (there is a legal contract between Croc & SJ Games). > This is not contradictory. Do anything with In Nomine that hasn't > gotten prior permission, and they will be *obligated* to bring out > lawyers and protect their copyright. Lest that copyright be lost! > [snip from later in message] > If you used concepts that are unique to In Nomine, without permission, > you would be infringing on copyright and as soon as they found out, > they'd have to send a lawyer after you, lest the copyright be declared > legally invalid. Common misconception. The truth: Copyright cannot be lost until it naturally would expire. It's Trademarks that can be lost by non-defense. Not defending against some copyright infringements may lessen the damages that can be collected when the holder does defend, but the holder never loses their rights to that material, and can demand that violators cease and desist under the terms of copyright law. Some copyright would be involved, but you'll likely see more trademark problems than copyright, so it's still *basically* what you said, depending on how much of it SJG had trademarked. > >Does SJG have a right to the names of angels like Cherubim, Seraphim > >and to traditional demon names like Furfur and Baal? If you ask White Wolf, who trademarked all sorts of traditional terms for vampires, then yes -- but only for gaming purposes, or anything associated with said game (trademarks again). This means fiction, too, I'm sure, if it uses the established universe with its trademarks. > They have a right to the concepts. If you write a story that has > six-eyed Seraphim in it who can detect truth and lies and Fall if they > lie, you had best be *very* sure you are using other resources besides > the SJ Games book to use those concepts. > *This* gets us firmly into copyright law. > Yes, they *can*, I do believe, say "This use of our material is > 'fair use,' that we believe does not infringe" and also say, "That > use would be infringement." > Actually, fair use is well defined under copyright law, and only allows use in cases of parody, short quotes for review, educational purposes, and so forth. SJG can chose not to say anything, but it would still be infringement (unless it becomes a trademark issue, which makes a legal disclaimer necessary, no matter what, to protect SJGs and Croc's rights - -- and even then, they can say "no"). Basically, they can actively give permission (like the limited photocopy rights often noted on character sheets in books) or it's infringement, and other than the very specific fair use qualifications, there is no middle ground. > If you Really Want To Do Something Fictional With IN Material, ask > first. It's polite, and it's probably the only legal way to do it. > Always a safe bet. In this case, it's *much* better to get permission than ask forgiveness. > DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A LAWYER, I AM NOT SJ GAMES LEGAL STAFF. IF YOU > WANT REAL ANSWERS, GO TO THEIR WEBSITE AND ASK -- THERE ARE CONTACT > ADDRESSES THERE. Again, the "me too" on this. alberich@iglou.com | Mark Kinney | http://www.iglou.com/nations "You *can* have sex in a roomette on a train hurtling through the Florida night, by the way, but I didn't have the nerve to tell the chiropractor how I actually injured my back." -- Lewis Grizzard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:29:12 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: IN> In Nomine Superior PBEM--Dalarond ArchAngel of the Crucible I've been offline while my machine's been in the shop. Here's the first part of my submission with the rest for tomorrow. If I've missed the window, enjoy the story and tell me what you think any way . Dalarond -- Angel of the Crucible "Arrakis was created by God to test the faithful" --Fremen proverb "Dune" Dalarond (Daladreal) was one of Gabriel's oldest Mercurian Servitors from the time of Gabriel's service as Divine Messenger. Gabriel was still concerned with the redress of cruelty even then, and in the overlap of these too responsiblilities a Word was co-sponsored with at first Yvves than to smaller extent Blandine. The Word of the Crucible focus on the large part on the redemption of those who have not given themselves in total to their cruel impulses. Dalarond was granted his Word upon the successful sponsorship of a Roman inquisitor who went by the name of Saul of Tarsus. In addition to redeeming bullies, sadists and among others a certain miser who would inspire a Dicken's tale. Dalarond expanded his Word to the redemption of cruel circumstances. His Servitors sponsored heroic stands at Masada, cultivated future leaders at Hells Kitchen and kept an eye out for potential legends in extreme circumstances, occasionally overlapping the work of Stone. His occasional work with the greater spirits of the Far Marches, principally the Amerindian, Australians and some of the Oriental pantheons gave him a fondness for the strategically chosen animal forms. It also earned him some unwelcome attention from Dominic. In the female aspect of Daladreal, she made frequent use of Celtic imagery to divert knights from ruthless overlordship to trials of honor and loyalty. Daladreal opposed Uriel's Purification Crusade when the breadth of Purity's targets became clear. Her Servitors were conspicously present in Blandine's area of the Marches and suspicions were heightened when Daladreal refused to account for their presence. Things came to a head round during the Middle Ages when Dominic made formal accusations regarding Daladreal's involvement with both the Catharist Heresy and the career of an inspired young woman who claimed the Virgin Mary for her inspiration. As Jeanne D'Arc was arrested and bound for trial by one Inquistion, Daladreal was summoned to another in Heaven's Hall of Judgement. By this time, Gabriel had already begun her self-exile following her own brush with Dominic, and she was not present at the trial of her former Servitor. Like her trial, however Yvves intervened, aided by Blandine with her own testimony for the defense. In the end, Daladreal was spared greater punishment but at a price. Her powers bound, she was lead back to the corporeal realm to watch the trial and condemnation of Jeanne, forbidden to act or speak in any way. Then as the ashes of her pyre cooled, Daladreal's Vessel was taken elsewhere deep underground put to death in the same manner. Daladreal's Trauma lasted centuries with her Servitors in dissarray. It was said that among the rare interruptions of Gabriel's self-exile, some were silent vigils over her unmoving form. Dalarond came out of Trauma during the Reformation. Publicly admitting and acknowledging Dominic's wisdom, Dalarond's methods have become more circumspect and subtle. Questions asked about the Archangel of Judgement on any matter, or about his own trial however are met only with silence. And the counteneance of Dalarond is occasionally said to be marked with eyes narrowed in unspoken anger. In many ways, he is still adjusting to both an Earth and Heaven that have changed while he slept, and when it is said the Age of Heroes as ended, his Heart shivers as though someone had walked upon a mortal's grave. Still, he will not let his Word fade into eclipse without a fight. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:39:53 -0500 From: "R. Sean Borgstrom" Subject: IN> New Discords & A Guide to Life as a Creationer Forsaken, a guide to life as a Creationer (in the style of Life in Firetime, mentioned earlier) is available at http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~rsean/gaming/eli.html for now :) And now for something completely different ... New Discords (by Hitherby) Bad Taste (Corporeal) Much as "Discolored" transcends human racial differentiation, the "Bad Taste" Discord transcends poor style choices. At level 1, an average human will suspect that the character is inhuman (e.g. "There ain't no human alive wears him a zebra-striped blue and pink suit!") By level 4, the character's clothing tends to include such things as dimensional anomalies, liquid ties, and continuously exploding boots. At level 6, the character is wearing yellow T-shirts reading "Baal is a big, fat idiot" that holographically project clouds around his feet -- and that's just the beginning. Subtract the full level of this Discord from mortal reaction rolls, and half the level of this Discord (rounding up) from celestial reaction rolls. This Discord also subtracts from any attempt to successfully plan the decorations, music, &c. for a party, wedding, or other event. Butterfly Magnet (Corporeal) The character attracts butterflies, and finds it very hard to get them to go away. Every hour, one butterfly per level will come out of nowhere and attempt to perch on the character, flapping their wings decoratively. These butterflies are spiritually connected to the character, and if one of them is killed or seriously injured, the character will take 1 point of damage. A successful Emote roll can scare a few of them away, as can moving really fast -- but they will not leave the character's vicinity voluntarily. Disaster Allergy (Ethereal) The character is violently allergic to bad news and disastrous events. Whenever the character discovers that something has gone terribly wrong, they must make a Will roll minus the level of this Discord to avoid an allergic reaction lasting 6 combat rounds. Once per reaction, and once only, the character may make an unmodified Will roll to remove the effects for one round. To determine the nature of the reaction, add the Discord's level to a 1d6 roll. If the result is 2-4, the character sneezes or dramatically curses, rendering speech impossible. If the result is 5, the character also coughs violently, reducing Precision and Agility by 1. If the result is 6, the character also retches and gags, bringing the Precision and Agility penalty to 2 per characteristic. If the result is 7-8, add in random teleportation, synchronized with the coughing, producing a level 3 disturbance each round. If the result is 9-10, the character experiences a full seizure, reducing Precision and Agility by 4 each and doing 1 Mind hit per round. If the result is 11-12, increase this to 2 Mind hits and 1 Body hit per round. Evil Clothing (Corporeal) The character's clothing is not just tacky -- it's actively evil. It wants to kill the character and destroy everything of value to them. It can only act when the character is not wearing it -- at which time it becomes an adversary with 1 point each of Strength, Agility, Intelligence, and Precision per level of this Discord. Of course, the character can choose to have only one set of clothes and never to take them off, but they will have difficulty explaining this, and will have trouble receiving medical care. For the purposes of this Discord, *everything* the character has ever worn, starting the moment they acquired this Discord, qualifies as their own clothing -- unless it is an artifact belonging to someone else. Evil Twin (Corporeal) The character has an evil twin (or possibly a good twin, if the character is a demon.) This twin is working for the character's Superior's most hated enemy, whether that is a Demon Prince or an Archangel. By unlucky coincidence, both of them tend to be assigned to the same areas and are asked to deal with the same issues. This has terrible effects on both of their lives. The evil twin is always given a Vessel that looks just like the character's Vessel, although they may look different in celestial form. The evil twin has 9 Forces, plus 7 extra character points per level of this Discord. These character points can be used to buy Forces or characteristics. It is unclear to celestials just how this discord works, but it appears to be a manifestation of the Symphony really getting ticked off. Hunted by Shellfish (Corporeal) It's nothing personal -- shellfish just feel that the world would be better off if the character was dead. Whenever the character goes into a dark room, or reaches into their purse, or rounds a corner, or lies bleeding on the floor, or is in the middle of a very delicate operation, they might find a shellfish. A giant shellfish. With legs. At higher levels of this Discord, the shellfish might have wings, pincers, or even weaponry! Whenever it would be particularly inconvenient, the player must roll above their Discord level on 1d6 or discover a shellfish antagonist. At level 1, this is just a big clam with legs. For each level above the first, the Game Master should choose either a Numinous Corpus/1 effect (such as horns or a spiky tongue), an extra 2 levels with such a Numinous Corpus, arms with hands, or modern battle equipment like kevlar, guns, or a flamethrower. Melodramatic (Ethereal) A melodramatic character is convinced that the things that happen to them are incredibly important, even if they are not actually vain. Whenever the character is under emotional or physical attack, they must make a Will roll minus their level in this Discord -- or begin loudly narrating the tale of their woes. Similarly, if they are enjoying something, they must make such a roll or loudly describe their pleasure and its reasons. This can be awkward if they are enjoying someone else's discomfort! The character should be as poetic as possible. Secretly Replaced by Instant Coffee (Celestial) The character has secretly been replaced by instant coffee. Whenever the character attempts to impress someone, using a resonance or a social skill, the roll takes a penalty equal to the level of this Discord. If this penalty causes the roll to fail, the target realizes that the character is just instant coffee and gets disgusted instead. Soundtrack (Corporeal) A character with this Discord is always accompanied by music -- purely corporeal music, indicating the state of their emotions and the events surrounding them. The character takes twice their level of this Discord as a penalty to all Move Silently and Lying rolls. If the character attempts to Emote a false emotion, they also take this penalty -- but if they attempt to Emote what they really feel, they receive a *bonus* to their Emote roll equal to double their Discord level. One unfortunate effect of this Discord is that *mortals* can hear and often understand the disturbance when the character does something celestial or destroys something of the mortal world. For example, if the character shoots a human, the loud and violent tones of their personal soundtrack will let perceptive humans know instantly that someone has committed murder! Uncanny Resemblance to Eli (Celestial) People keep confusing the character with Eli. It's hard to say why, since Eli can manifest as whatever kind of celestial he likes and can *certainly* create whatever kind of Vessel he likes - -- but the character just radiates Eli-ness. Whenever a Dominican, demon, or Demon Prince looks at the character, they must make a Perception roll with a penalty equal to this Discord level or they will think that the character is Eli -- or, at least, a Creationer. This may produce many different reactions, but many of them will be bad. This Discord did not start appearing among demons and angels until after Eli's disappearing act; perhaps he has caused it to be created in order to give himself some added 'cover'. It is rumored that if this Discord prevents someone from regenerating Essence, Eli gets it instead! - -- Hitherby ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 04:44:56 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> An apology for Uriel At 16:55 24/03/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Julian Breen wrote: > >> >> >But, there has been no real explanation of why uriel was taken or what is >> >hapening to him (or her, whatever; I just seem to visualize him as Rutger >> >Hauer for some reason). >But mostly Split Second. Obsessive, driven, convinced he's doing the >right thing, and can't understand why people won't just leave him alone >and let him do it. (That applies to all angels, surely?) So Uriel is a character in a really BAD B-Movie? Suddenly it all makes a strange kind of sense! If I'd been the director I'd have pulled the plug as well ;) (I saw Split Second a few weeks ago and it was... an experience) jo (ps. If anyone is following the letters there is another one up at http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/IN_let4.html -- inspiration from Maya's thoughts on duelling and drinking, and Beth's comments on seraphim and their ultra-pure emotions ;) ) - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:51:01 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> List Consensus (was Re: IN> Anti-Puritans) >> >(Don't feel too bad - I did the same thing with the Janus/Valefor >> >thing, when I actually took a second to compare their attunements. >> >It's something to think about before you post, though; are you >> >preaching to the choir?) >> >> So, for those of us who have joined the list recently, where can we >> find list consensi reached before we signed on? eg I'm interested in >> Janus/Valefor, but I expect most list members might be tired of the >> subject (if they'd reached consensus already, then you brought it up >> again). > >The basic consensus was that if they aren't the same Celestial, they >are damn similar. I just pointed that out rather noisily, before >realizing everybody else already knew that... > > And that's just why I think the Balseraphs of SJG are pulling one on us. The connection between them is just a bit too obvious. :) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 04:47:20 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- NC: Acid At 16:30 24/03/98 PST, you wrote: >>Tongue => Word. Rather than smacking people around with your tongye, >you >>speak a rather forcefuul (and loud) Word that is so holy-yet-terrible >that >>it has the potential of doing Mind Damage. > The killing joke. jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 02:13:29 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Superior PBEM--Dalarond ArchAngel of the Crucible At 11:29 PM 24/03/98 -0500, you wrote: >All this is fine Frank, you just made the window as it were, hope to see the rest soon! Simon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:06:20 From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Variant Experience Systems Dear List just a couple of thoughts to throw into the experience system discussion. 1. Experience and Advancement points. Split character improvements points into two types. Experience points would be gained when a character has a learning experience either through training, practise or using a skill successfully or unsuccessfully. They could be used to improve existing skills and abilities, and to offset "forgetting" of skills if you used that mechanism. Advancement points would be gained whenever a Celestial performed actions that advanced their Superior's Word. These could be used to gain favours from your Superior as well as new abilities, especially Forces, Songs, Artifacts and such that might require a Superior's cooperation or direct approval. This doesn't work so well for Soldiers and I don't think I will try it out soon, but I thought someone might be able to do something with it. 2. The List System. This is the system I have put in place for my FTF campaign, after my brother used it successfully in a V:tM campaign. Basically get each player to give you a prioritised list of all the improvements they want for their character. Keep a tally of how many improvement points you give to each character. When the character has enough points to get something that is on the list either discuss it with the player or simply inform them of the improvement to their character. It is a good idea to review the list with each player and let them know what you are just not going to let them have, or under what circumstances they might have a chance to get a particular improvement. It also lets you work in rewards for good play without stressing over the point cost, like someone's good example of a very happy Superior bestowing a Choir Attunement for 4 points and throwing in the other point. And it gives you some chance to work the gaining of improvements into the play rather than have them come out of the blue. If a Player wants to gain a Choir Attunement of a different Superior you can run some plots involving that Superior's Word, giving him the chance to get the required good will with that Superior. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #694 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.