From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Mar 26 11:32:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA07441 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:32:05 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id KAA29652 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:40:39 -0600 Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:40:39 -0600 Message-Id: <199803261640.KAA29652@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #696 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, March 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number 696 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Ramped advancement? IN> Questions man was not meant to ask.... Re: IN> IN Slang, Take Two Re: IN> IN Slang, Take Two IN> ON TOPIC ANSWERS (Re: WARNING OFF TOPIC QUESTIONS) Re: IN> Questions man was not meant to ask.... IN> Word-Bound Outcast NPC IN> Uriel's return IN> Re: IN- Questions man was not meant to ask.... Re: IN> Falling vs. "retirement" IN> Heisenberg In IN Re: IN> New Discords & A Guide to Life as a Creationer Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Ramped advancement? IN> New Discord - Security Blanket IN> God changed his mind? (was Why Uriel got pulled out) Re: IN> God changed his mind? (was Why Uriel got pulled out) IN> To Trap a Tiger (plot seed)ish Re: IN> Heisenberg In IN Re: IN> God changed his mind? (was Why Uriel got pulled out) Re: IN> Falling vs. "retirement" Re: IN> New Discords & A Guide to Life as a Creationer Re: IN> New Discords & A Guide to Life as a Creationer Re: IN> Falling vs. "retirement" Re: IN> Out of Order, Baal can read, and happy contradiction. Re: IN> Ineffability (was Falling vs. "retirement") Re: IN> Re: IN- Questions man was not meant to ask.... [none] Re: IN> Heisenberg In IN Re: IN> New Discords & A Guide to Life as a Creationer Re: IN> Ineffability (was Falling vs. "retirement") ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:14:09 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Ramped advancement? > > *Nearly avoid Vernors Disaster* > > ??? Lunch included a can of Vernors. I have learned today that drinking pop and reading email has been a hazard to my health today. :) > >Hey, if they willingly come to my place for biweekly pain involving > >severed heads and Demon Princes with nasty tongues, > > Those Andre attunements come in handy, obviously.... Well, clearly! And you can't have Andre going around without the long slimy slippery tongue to shove down some poor PC's throat, now can we? He'd feel so out of Modern Fashionable Demon Style, you know. It's almost as bad as Bad Hair. > > then I think I can get > >them to sit up and beg for fresh warm Cinnamon Raison bread. :) > > And so do Haagenti's.... > Hee hee hee. - - Em, gigglin. Pop is Bad today! ... as a segue, the running question today is this: Has anyone ever seen Eli in the same room with Kobal at the same time? :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 98 14:59 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: IN> Questions man was not meant to ask.... >Has anyone ever seen Eli in the same room with Kobal at the same time? :) Actually, I'd rather know if anyone has seen Kobal and either Janus or Valefor at the sime time. Of course, even if anyone had, it wouldn't mean much, since Superiors can have multiple manifestations. (Andre obviously finds this useful....) I doubt Haaagenti does it, though -- "Mmmm. Me.".... Hmmm... what *would* happen if one of Haagenti's manifestations ate another one...? - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:04:24 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN Slang, Take Two At 10:40 AM +0000 3/23/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >On Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 12:46:42PM -0500, Emily Dresner wrote: >> >> CABBAGE: Originally for 'cherubs', now a catch-all term for Player >> Characters. Coined by Archangel Beth. >> >I give up. Why? Em, I think it was, claimed that "Cherubim" really mean "cabbages," not some breed of angel. Or maybe some breed of angel as well. Not sure. Anyway, I started referring to certain characters as "cabbages" instead of "Cherubim." From there, it spread to *all* PCs. Especially ones doing non-sensical things. >> THIEFIES: Term used for those who serve Valefor. They can dress, man. >> >If you just call them "thieves" it's much better. That way Seraphim of the >Wind can pretend to be Servitors of Valefor, with an absolutely straight >face. I call them Thieves, as opposed to thieves. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:14:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN Slang, Take Two As I (dimly) recall the "cherubim" and "cabbages" business, it was a cross-language wordplay of some sort. Like, the Hebrew for Brussel sprouts sounds a lot like "cherub" or something like that. A search of the archive on "cabbage" would probably reveal it. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:22:34 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: IN> ON TOPIC ANSWERS (Re: WARNING OFF TOPIC QUESTIONS) YES! YES! YES! And they're not even used books! And to tie this back to IN, they also have a lot of IN books, including the hardcover books. I've a local gaming store that's been around forever. As of 3 weeks ago, they still had at least 3 copies of Space, and one copy of Aliens. (I know, because I helped organize the shelves when they moved.) Also, they're on discount (both sell for 14.41 plus S&H). PLEASE SUPPORT MY LOCAL GAMING STORE! (Yours doesn't have what you want anyway.) The URL for Darkholder Comics & Games is: http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ Hope that helps anyone looking for anything. Oh, and if you do order from them, tell them Jayson sent you! (They'll know who you mean.) - ---gibsonc@NKU.EDU wrote: > > > WARNING: The Below Are Off-Topic > the easily offended should delete now > > > Any know where someone can get hold of gurps space/alien books? > Anyone interested in selling/trading or know of any related webpages? > Anyone? > > == --Querent, Angel of Widescreen. Mercurian Servitor of Creation. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:03:58 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> Questions man was not meant to ask.... At 02:59 PM 25/03/98 EST, you wrote: >>Has anyone ever seen Eli in the same room with Kobal at the same time? :) > >Actually, I'd rather know if anyone has seen Kobal and either Janus or >Valefor at the sime time. > >Of course, even if anyone had, it wouldn't mean much, since Superiors >can have multiple manifestations. (Andre obviously finds this >useful....) I doubt Haaagenti does it, though -- "Mmmm. Me.".... >Hmmm... what *would* happen if one of Haagenti's manifestations ate >another one...? > > >---Walter > >That would not be good, but then again, auto-cannibalism could prove just as tasty as the other kind! Simon, Demon Prince of Pearls ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:31:24 -0500 (EST) From: Doubting Eric Subject: IN> Word-Bound Outcast NPC (Many thanks to Ashwath Ganesan for helping develop this concept) The angel knelt on the rooftop, looking down at the park below. Everything was in place. The woman in the sandbox was playing with her child, unaware of the forces that surrounded her. The Symphony showed no sign of danger, nothing to interrupt what had to be done. All that was left was confirmation. Assurance that the seeds of great evil were here, evil great enough to justify the wrong that must be done. In time, a great leader would arise from this place. Holding the hearts of men, shaping the course of nations. And pain. Needless wars of conquest. Persecution. Revenge for the petty slights of politics. But it could be stopped. It must be stopped. Despite the price. The word came, finally, on Celestial tongues. The voice of an Archangel, a Seraph who knew that the cost of War was sometimes unpleasant. "It is confirmed, Gazezael." The angel nodded. "This thing is necessary," he said, more to himself than anyone who could hear. He shouldered the rifle, looking through the scope and centering the crosshairs on the child's head. "May God hold your soul." - -- Gazezael, Outcast Elohite of War, Angel of Brutal Necessity. -- Gazezael is one of the more significant amongst the Outcast angels on Earth, by virtue of being Word-bound, and by its remaining ties to Heaven. Created by Yves over a millenium ago, it served the Word of Destiny for many centuries, performing its duties with the expected precision of the Elohim. But there was dissatisfaction, there. Its objective viewpoint led it to see a prevention of Fate in unpleasant places, stress points where the application of distasteful means in the immediate would guarantee a far greater good in the future. It was attached to Michael's initiative during the War of the Roses, taking orders directly from the Archangel of War, and it was there that it found its place. Michael's viewpoint on necessity was complimentary to Gazazael's, and when the War of the Roses was concluded, it petitioned Yves to transfer service. The oldest Archangel agreed, but it was with uncharacteristic reluctance and a note of wariness. It was with Michael that Gazezael began his ascendancy. Given command of a specialized force of Malakim and Elohim, it was sent by Michael to the most troubling focal points of human development, when angelic intervention was deemed absolutely required. Yves at first stated disapproval, although by now Michael had not only ceased to listen, but was beginning his active opposition to the Archangel of Destiny. He defended Gazezael and his group from all sides, claiming the right of War to dictate the application of violence. In 1973, there was an outrage in Heaven. Gazezael, granted the Word of Brutal Necessity a brief ten years earlier, was discovered to have personally killed an infant in Pheonix, Arizona. The furor became even stronger when Yves stepped forward to reveal that the child's Destiny was to become a simple artist, focusing on paintings of a peaceful and inspiring nature. For Yves to take such a clear stance was unusual: Michael's stern insistance that Gazezael had done the right thing polarized the conflict. Facing the full brunt of Dominic's inquiry, Michael made an executive decision. He declared Gazezael Outcast and cracked its Heart. Heaven does not speak of Gazezael, the Shearer of God, anymore. But there are whispers amongst Michael's forces that when something needs to be done, something that would cause even the most stalwart Malakite to blanch, Michael just nods, and eventually it gets done. On Earth, Gazezael has acquired very few associates. It moves constantly, as both Dominic and Yves would dearly love to have it captive in Heaven. Hell made the mistake of approaching it, once. Three of Baal's were sent to their Hearts, bearing a very strong denial from Gazezael. It moves from place to place, still in communication with Michael, making single private attacks in the War. - -- Game Stuff -- I'm not including numbers here, since you're all creative enough to make Gazezael as powerful or weak as necessary. But, things to consider: Gazezael no longer holds its Elohite of Yves attunement. However, it holds both the Elohite and Malakite of Michael Choir attunements, as well as Proficiency in both Knife and Rifle. It has a vessel, a male form that is generally nondescript. It also has an artifact: A hunting rifle that functions as a Holy Pistol. Gazezael's Rites: As a Word-bound, Gazezael's Rites remain intact, although it can no longer use Michael's. All standard rules apply. Prevent a greater harm by releasing a calculated smaller harm. (This includes such things as brushclearing fires and triggered avalanches.) Prevent a being from reaching its Fate. (Note that having the being reach its Destiny is not required for this rite.) (BIG NOTE: Gazezael is neither Discordant nor dissonant. It is Outcast by politics only. It's still very firmly on the side of Heaven, even a Heaven that doesn't like to think about its Word.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:46:25 PST From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Uriel's return >Gabriel is (when she is lucid) torn in her opinions; they used to be very >close a long time ago (their Words and methods complimented each other), Interestingly, according to Briggs' Dictionary of Angels, "Uriel" means "Fire of God", and his symbol is a hand with a flame in it. David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:00:25 PST From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Questions man was not meant to ask.... >Of course, even if anyone had, it wouldn't mean much, since Superiors >can have multiple manifestations. (Andre obviously finds this >useful....) I doubt Haaagenti does it, though -- "Mmmm. Me.".... >Hmmm... what *would* happen if one of Haagenti's manifestations ate >another one...? Hmmm... "Demon Prince of Autocannibalism". Pity he's not a Kyriotate. SurturZ Dissonant Elohite of Stone. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:42:15 +0500 From: daiv@cruzio.com (David M. Barr) Subject: Re: IN> Falling vs. "retirement" >As I was saying before I got interrupted: > >I suspect Uriel was "retired" because God decided his Word was no >longer appropriate for such, uh, enthusiastic support out in the universe. >This does bring up the issue of why Uriel was kicked upstairs, when most >angels who foul up Fall. > >As I understand it, Uriel was still serving his Word, but he was doing it >so well that he came into irreconcilable conflict with other Archangels. >Forced to choose, God decided that Purity was no longer so important. >So He removed Uriel from the field of action while at the same time >rewarding him for faithful service. > >Fallen angels, on the other hand, don't give a damn about God or the >universe. They may reflect their Words with just as much enthusiasm, >but it's for entirely selfish reasons. Can't reward that -- throw the bums >out. > >Another thought: there are some pretty serious conflicts between today's >Archangels too. If the War takes a major turn for the worse, then we might >see another Archangel called to the Higher Heavens. . .or Fallen. Now, >who's the best candidate? > I would point out, just for the record, that no one really knows what happened to Uriel, after God called him up to the high heavens. {one possibility] (God) Uriel? (Uriel) Yes, my lord most holy one... (God) Stop Grovelling. You're fired. (Uriel) I'M WHAT? (sudden dissolution of forces) = No More Uriel. Or Uriel could have been kicked directly into hell, with no memory of his existence. Or forced to swear an oath to find and/or restore all the creatures he drove to the marches. Or e could be sitting atthe right hand side of Gods table, drinking the Good wine and kicking it with the All Mighty. There is no cannon answer on what happened after his forced Ascension (and, for the record, I prefer that there not be one, I like uncertainty.) just throwing the wrench of doubt into the works of rationality. - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:03:43 +0500 From: daiv@cruzio.com (David M. Barr) Subject: IN> Heisenberg In IN A reasonably well known law of physics (which is defined as one I know of) is the Heisenberg Principle, which is (IIRC) that it is impossible to know both the speed and direction of any given particle with any certainty. The more precisely you are able to know (measure) one of these for a particle, the less precisely you are able to measure the other for that partilce (disclaimer; not only am i not a lawyer, I am not a physicist either). The two peices of knowledge exist in a mutually exclusive state from one another. I just got to thinking. what if God created a similar rule about knwping himself. Specifically, what if it was possible to know the Will of God, OR the Existence of God, but never both, with any degree of certainty (of course, it is still possible to be totally ignorant of both of those). (subject one) I know God is up there, but I have no idea what to do as a result. (subject two) I know what do, but I am not quite sure for whom I am doing it. (subject three) huh? just a thought. Needless to say (except maybe it isn't) this is speculation of the nature of God within the context of In Nomine. My speculations of the nature of God in the Real life are none of your business and not something I will discuss on this list. - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:24:30 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> New Discords & A Guide to Life as a Creationer On Tue, Mar 24, 1998 at 11:39:53PM -0500, R. Sean Borgstrom wrote: > Evil Twin (Corporeal) > The character has an evil twin (or possibly a good twin, if > the character is a demon.) This twin is working for the > character's Superior's most hated enemy, whether that is a > Demon Prince or an Archangel. By unlucky coincidence, both of > them tend to be assigned to the same areas and are asked to deal > with the same issues. So tell me. Is it Janus or Valefor who has this Discord? Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:33:56 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Ramped advancement? On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 02:07:43PM -0500, Dan Ozdowski wrote: > Kitchen Terrorist, HA! > > The kitchen at my residence in my 2nd year here at UVA was > infested by Kitchen Bastards (TM). So named due to the unnatural > proclivity for utensils to break for no apparent reason while in > common use. One of the more famous incidents was the Hurricane > glass that exploded for no apparent reason while being filled > with orange juice. Closely followed by the time that a can > opener broke while I was opening a can of chicken soup. I was > sick, we had no other openers, and it was the last can. I > almost took a hammer to it I was so mad O:) . Far be it from me to point out the obvious Band of Superior responsible. I'll leave that as an exercise for your imagination. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:29:31 From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> New Discord - Security Blanket Dear List just something that occurred to me while I was in work avoidance mode. Hope someone can use it for something. Ethereal Discord - Security Blanket. The subject of this Ethereal Discord has an object that acts as a mental support to their self esteem and psychic well being. The subject will highly value the Security Blanket and must spend the Discord Level in hours a day closely interacting (eg cleaning, playing with or fussing over) the Security Blanket. In situations of stress the subject will place the safety of the Security Blanket above that of other items and or persons, they may make a Will roll to save something before the Security Blanket, if they wish to do so. Being deprived of quality time with their Security Blanket object causes the subject Mind hits equal to the level of the Discord for each day that they are denied access to it. These Mind Hits, and any Ethereal Discords they have created will be removed after the subject has recovered the Security Blanket and been able to spend 2 X Level in hours closely interacting with it. Security Blankets are most often objects, but might also be people, places or activities. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:44:10 From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> God changed his mind? (was Why Uriel got pulled out) Perry Lloyd wrote >I have heard it whispered in the Symphony that Uriel was a Pure >Manifestation of God's aspect of Purity. After trying that out for a bit, >He changed His mind and decided that The Sword was a much better Word to >lead His Armies. Hmmm, God changing from a absolutist stance of Purity to a more catholic (in it's meaning of universal) point of view. I can live with that. For a start the idea of God changing his mind in the first place is pretty cool. regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:57:31 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> God changed his mind? (was Why Uriel got pulled out) On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 10:44:10PM +0000, Peter Frederick wrote: > Hmmm, God changing from a absolutist stance of Purity to a more catholic > (in it's meaning of universal) point of view. I can live with that. For a > start the idea of God changing his mind in the first place is pretty cool. > God is a Balseraph! Sorry, I had to say it. I'm just feeling strange today. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:07:55 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> To Trap a Tiger (plot seed)ish (This pobably works best once the Game are involved, as they specialise in this kind of setup -- even better if you have a cherub. I was trying to think of things that make the Game a meaner opponent. ps. Don't worry player-types -- I wasn' going to use this ;) I have meaner things planned) One of the softer hearted PCs, or one with an honourable bent gets a letter or fax or celtongues message, under suitable encryption, from a demon which they have encountered that had a chance to work out that they were angels and also escape. It is an Impudite and the letter is a plea for help. It dares not meet them openly because it is being followed everywhere it goes. It has no chance to make a break from its superior but.. it requests their aid in protecting a mortal from the demons. Apparently it has a mortal lover and it is terrified that other Game demons have found out about this and will try to use him/ her for blackmail purposes. It claims that it thinks it can play the system to get itself out of hock but can the angels protect the mortal? They must tell the mortal whatever they like about how evil it was, or how it is dead.. just whatever they think is best. It asks for nothing for itself, and says that it doesn't care if it never sees the mortal again as long as they are safe. Any further contacts they can have with it will be under suitably paranoid precautions (and will try to avoid face to face meetings). If they investigate they find the mortal to be some perfectly normal seeming person, neither particularly good nor bad, who is a bit bitter at his/her latest boyfriend having proven to be such a flake (it said it loved him/her, and then it pissed off and has not been seen since. Men!). [I'll refer to the mortal as he because I'd be inclined to have them as a gay couple, just to get the angels thinking ;) ] Options:: 1) (Most likely) This is a setup. The mortal's house is being staked out by demons/ soldiers/ whisperers and whatever else is to hand. The house is seriously bugged (including tapping on all phones and other totally unnecessary measures), and the mortal has a djinn attuned to it. All angelic investigators will be checked out and casually followed around. Further options include demons kidnapping the mortal to drag the angels into a trap, demons impersonating the angels' vessels in order to get them into trouble with their superiors (or other local angels) or lure other demons into potentially incriminating situations, or other amusing Game activities angled at putting one or more of the angels in a situation which is liable to give it the opportunity to Fall. NB. Once any of the angels acquires dissonance, Game demons can try to use their dissonance chains attunements on them. 2) The demon is genuine, but is honestly too much of a coward (or just too sensible) to make a serious bid to go renegade --- or maybe it already regrets its moment of weakness and just wants it dealt with and out of the way so that it can get back to its loyal duties. Manipulative angels might be able to use its evident attachment to the mortal to blackmail it into a position in which it has no choice but to go turncoat (hey, maybe this is the only chance it will ever have, the only 'weakness' it will ever show!) - -- but then they'll all be on a Game hitlist. However, the demon has attracted some suspicion by its actions and is under heavy surveillance, as are any and all of its unauthorised contacts -- as the Game are a bit overkeen this includes mortals such as shop assistants, bartenders and just about anyone the demon has spoken to in the past month -- subject to how much resources the local game organisation has. If they get bored/ twitchy they will try to push it into making a move, so the lucky demon might find itself being blackmailed on several fronts at once. Can the angels protect the mortal? Or is it worth sacrificing a human in order to push a demon towards redemption? NB. The blackmail attempt will be particularly amusing if they think they are in scenario 2 but are actually in scenario 1 ;) 3) A bit of both. It begins as a set-up job but the impudite's heart isn't really in anything that involves torture/ murder of mortals and its Game allies go far enough to make its loyalty crumble. In this scenario the mortal does get kidnapped in order to trap the angels, but they find they may have a hidden ally. In this one, the demon is not particularly under suspicion until it actually acts -- but PCs will have to find it and persuade it to do so. In fact it may put on a good front of being especially nasty and hard-hearted in order to keep its allies happy (but angelic resonances can see through that, right?) 4) It is a set-up from the angelic side. The mortal is a soldier of heaven and is knowingly putting itself into danger, but the angels are not told this. One of the more hardline superiors knows there is some heavy duty demonic planning going down and thinks that the angels NEED to know what is being planned. They have noted from the PCs reports that they have interacted with Game demons, who are imagined to have a good inside track into local demons and are going to try to set a demon-trap in order to get material which can be used to blackmail one of the Game demons into passing the information on. The impudite's been set up by the cute mortal (hey, it could happen ;) ) and a kyriotate with the ethereal song of attraction. But will it work? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:16:03 EST From: JFZeigler Subject: Re: IN> Heisenberg In IN In a message dated 98-03-26 03:08:16 EST, daiv@cruzio.com writes: << Specifically, what if it was possible to know the Will of God, OR the Existence of God, but never both, with any degree of certainty (of course, it is still possible to be totally ignorant of both of those). (subject one) I know God is up there, but I have no idea what to do as a result. (subject two) I know what do, but I am not quite sure for whom I am doing it. (subject three) huh? >> Interesting. Very interesting. Hmmmm. . . - ---------- Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, freelance writer, amateur historian, science fiction fan, occasional scribbler of bad poetry JFZeigler@aol.com "Never speak for others. You can get in enough trouble speaking for yourself." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:20:58 EST From: JFZeigler Subject: Re: IN> God changed his mind? (was Why Uriel got pulled out) In a message dated 98-03-26 06:53:41 EST, you write: << Hmmm, God changing from a absolutist stance of Purity to a more catholic (in it's meaning of universal) point of view. I can live with that. For a start the idea of God changing his mind in the first place is pretty cool. >> Sure -- this is process theology, as I understand it. A lot of theological contradictions vanish if you assume that God isn't all-knowing or perfect, and therefore that God can change. - ---------- Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, freelance writer, amateur historian, science fiction fan, occasional scribbler of bad poetry JFZeigler@aol.com "Never speak for others. You can get in enough trouble speaking for yourself." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:46:35 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Falling vs. "retirement" On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, David M. Barr wrote: > I would point out, just for the record, that no one really knows what > happened to Uriel, after God called him up to the high heavens. > {one possibility] > (God) Uriel? > (Uriel) Yes, my lord most holy one... > (God) Stop Grovelling. You're fired. > (Uriel) I'M WHAT? > (sudden dissolution of forces) = No More Uriel. Worse yet: (Uriel) My Lord, why did you summon me here? (God) Uriel, I'm very disappointed in you. (Uriel) But why, my Lord? (God) You know very well why. Now I want you to go to your room and think about wath you've done. I'll tell you when you can come out. [Shiver] I always hated that as a kid. > There is no cannon answer on what happened after his forced Ascension (and, > for the record, I prefer that there not be one, I like uncertainty.) So do I . It's a lot easier to monkey around with things when there's no official answer. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:50:09 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> New Discords & A Guide to Life as a Creationer On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > On Tue, Mar 24, 1998 at 11:39:53PM -0500, R. Sean Borgstrom wrote: > > Evil Twin (Corporeal) > > The character has an evil twin (or possibly a good twin, if > > the character is a demon.) This twin is working for the > > character's Superior's most hated enemy, whether that is a > > Demon Prince or an Archangel. By unlucky coincidence, both of > > them tend to be assigned to the same areas and are asked to deal > > with the same issues. > > So tell me. Is it Janus or Valefor who has this Discord? Yes. They both have it. Neither one would exist if the other weren't somewhat Discordant. Of course, this means that really one of them should have existed first in order to gain the Discord. But they didn't. They were each created by the other's Discord. Rich "Mr. Uriel" Gant "Maybe I just haven't had enough sleep." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:39:33 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> New Discords & A Guide to Life as a Creationer > > So tell me. Is it Janus or Valefor who has this Discord? > > Yes. They both have it. Neither one would exist if the other weren't > somewhat Discordant. Of course, this means that really one of them should > have existed first in order to gain the Discord. But they didn't. They > were each created by the other's Discord. I thought maybe they just had EVIL CLOTHING. "My GOD!" yelled Valefor, as he hid behind the kitchen table and brandished a wooden cooking utensil, "I'm being stalked by a pair of PANTS! They've eaten all my donuts and hidden all the Celestial Fabric Softener! Bastards!" "Hey," Janus said next to him, chuckling, "at least they're brand name. Can you imagine being stalked by off name jeans? What would people say?" ... well, what can I say. Valefor is the only well dressed Calabite in existance, although he became the Prince of Theft because of his disturbing tendancy to lose buttons. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:44:55 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Falling vs. "retirement" > Worse yet: > (Uriel) My Lord, why did you summon me here? > (God) Uriel, I'm very disappointed in you. > (Uriel) But why, my Lord? > (God) You know very well why. Now I want you to go to your room and think > about wath you've done. I'll tell you when you can come out. > > [Shiver] I always hated that as a kid. Nah. Let's try it this way. URIEL: My Lord! Why did you summon me here? GOD: The lava lamp is full of cheese. URIEL: My Lord? I don't understand. GOD: I decree that nothing good will ever be shown on FOX. See if young Nybbas will be able to work around THAT. *chuckle* URIEL: WHAT? Who? I, um... my Lord? God: I'm ineffible, kid. Don't try to eff. Nice tutu, by the way. Want a lima bean? - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:54:29 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Out of Order, Baal can read, and happy contradiction. In a message dated 3/24/98 3:16:46 PM, emccoy@nh.ultranet.com writes: >At 4:35 PM -0500 3/24/98, Wildcard wrote: >>On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Chris Crowe wrote: >>> Perry M. Lloyd<<< >[various taunting deleted > >>Um, is anyone else detecting the heavy irony here? > >I'm detecting a very annoyed list admin *right here*. If any more >childish stuff, with or without smilies, crosses my screen, I'm >going to go into Demon Princess mode and do some unsubscribing. > >(It does not pertain to IN, it doesn't amuse me, and I'm in a >really nasty mood right now. Don't cross the Djinn Princess.) > > >--Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking >http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html > Thank you. Mark (Cherub of Stone, wishing for a mallet....) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:56:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Ineffability (was Falling vs. "retirement") Emily Dresner wrote: > God: I'm ineffible, kid. Don't try to eff. This reminds me of a footnote from "Good Omens," by Gaiman & Pratchett, one of the sources of inspiration for IN. (At least, it's in the bibliography.) -- "It is said that God does not play dice. In fact, He plays an ineffable game of his own devising, which might be compared, from the viewpoint of the other players (i.e. everyone), to playing poker for infinite stakes, in a dark room, with blank cards, against a Dealer who won't tell you the rules and *smiles* *all* *the* *time.*" (From memory, so inaccuracies are likely.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:55:50 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Questions man was not meant to ask.... >>Of course, even if anyone had, it wouldn't mean much, since Superiors >>can have multiple manifestations. (Andre obviously finds this >>useful....) I doubt Haaagenti does it, though -- "Mmmm. Me.".... >>Hmmm... what *would* happen if one of Haagenti's manifestations ate >>another one...? > >Hmmm... "Demon Prince of Autocannibalism". Pity he's not a Kyriotate. Ah, but as a Calabite if he fails his resonance role he could end up destroying himself. That is pretty cannibalistic. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:02:53 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: [none] ** God's office. A sign on the window reads 'You don't have to be crazy to work here but it helps.' God is doing the filing when there is a knock on the door ** GOD: Uriel, you are 17 seconds early, but do come in and wait anyway. ** The door opens and Uriel enters, a weedy bookish looking guy played by Jeff Goldblum. He takes a seat and plays with his cuffs. God ignores him for the next 15 seconds. Uriel bites his nails. Finally God smiles and turns to him ** GOD: Now then. Shall we get this over with quickly? URIEL: ** disconsolate ** Is it just a formality then, your most supreme divinity? GOD: Tut. Do I detect a touch of dissatisfaction in your tone? URIEL: You're the omniescent one here, Lord. You tell me. **he looks at his nails and sighs** GOD: It doesn't take an omniescent being to figure out that you have been up to my office once a millenium to make precisely the same request. But don't let me cramp your style. URIEL: ** sighs and stands up, trying to slick his hair down and standing at attention ** My Lord, for the past millenium I have tried to keep Your corporeal realms, Your lower heavens, and Your ethereal marches pure. I have ... GOD: ** cuts in ** And you are doing an excellent job, my boy. URIEL: Thanks. But that wasn't what I meant. On my command, I have slain all Your dragons. GOD: I quite enjoyed that part. It's what they were for you know. URIEL: ** stops, confused ** What? GOD: Oh yes. When Yves manages to dig out the rest of 'Beowulf' from that uncatalogued mess he calls a library I'll show you what I mean. It'll all get marvellously metaphorical in about 600 years time, mark my words. Things are so much MORE metaphorical when they aren;t actually around. URIEL: Come again? GOD: The point of dragons is to show that they can be slain. URIEL: So.. err.. what is /my/ point? GOD: **politely** I was hoping you might get around to that sometime within the next 2 minutes. Go on, say it. URIEL: I just don't feel I'm doing a good enough job. ** makes big pathetic eyes ** Can I come home yet? GOD: Hmmm. Don't tell me, let me guess. You've been comparing terms and conditions with Michael again? URIEL: (aside : He always says 'let me guess?' when He knows perfectly well what was coming). If I have to go and try to purify the world in blood I think I should get piecerate terms the way he does. And a proper contract! GOD: I .. see. So you want a raise, hmm? URIEL: That's right! GOD: You got it. ** the ejector seat that Uriel is sitting in explodes into motion, shooting him up through the roof ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:07:03 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Heisenberg In IN >Specifically, what if it was possible to know the Will of God, OR the >Existence of God, but never both, with any degree of certainty (of course, >it is still possible to be totally ignorant of both of those). This would be esp. interesting if was one of those "rocks so big God can't lift it." That is, could God create a princple so universal even he must abide by it? I know I exist, but I am bored. I know want to do, but do I exist? It would be interesting to extend Decartes' Evil Demon hypothesis to God. Of course if the princple extended to Lucifer he would go crazy: The Will of What? The Will of Who? What the heck are these voices in my head?!? Who am I supposed to be fighting? >(subject one) I know God is up there, but I have no idea what to do as a result. Sounds like Michael. >(subject two) I know what do, but I am not quite sure for whom I am doing it. Sounds like Eli or Lilith. >(subject three) huh? Sounds like me. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:12:27 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> New Discords & A Guide to Life as a Creationer >> Evil Twin (Corporeal) >So tell me. Is it Janus or Valefor who has this Discord? No, Marc and Valefor have it, as did Janus and Merserach. It makes more sense that the Words of the twins be opposed, rather than complementary, as is the case with Theft and Wind. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:27:37 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Ineffability (was Falling vs. "retirement") On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 10:56:24AM -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > "It is said that God does not play dice. (In reference to God faking the age of the Earth.) "Firstly, God does not play dice with the universe." In fact, He plays an > ineffable game of his own devising, which might be compared, > from the viewpoint of the other players (i.e. everyone) The bracketed text was a footnote, not in the main line of the paragraph. I believe it said "from the point of view of" instead of using the compound viewpoint. , to > playing "an obscure and complex version of" poker for infinite stakes, in a dark room, with blank > cards, against a Dealer who won't tell you the rules and *smiles* > *all* *the* *time.*" > > (From memory, so inaccuracies are likely.) > And I have to correct them (also from memory). So the last sentence has to be rearranged, I think. Secondly, the Earth's a Libra. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #696 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.