From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Apr 11 18:17:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA31239 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:17:52 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA11114 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:22:44 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:22:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199804112322.SAA11114@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #713 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, April 11 1998 Volume 01 : Number 713 In this digest: IN> What do you want on the INdex? IN> Resonance mechanics Re: IN> Resonance mechanics Re: IN> Looking for a volunteer! Re: IN> Some Thoughts on Free Will Re: IN> Some Thoughts on Free Will Re: IN> Looking for a volunteer! Re: IN> Some Thoughts on Free Will IN> Jean is at large! IN> Put me on the IN NOMINE mailing list!! Re: IN> Jean is at large! IN> Rather Odd Questions for the SJG Net-reps ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:45:58 -0700 From: "Steven Feldon (Exchange)" Subject: IN> What do you want on the INdex? While we're asking for information from the whole list, how about this: What types of character listings would be helpful to you? I'm rewriting the INdex, the list of all canonical In Nomine characters that I (try to) maintain, as a series of database queries, so I can add pages that slice the data pretty much any way anyone wants. I'm soliciting suggestions. Currently on the table are: * all characters, by name * all Superiors, by name * all Worded Celestials, by Word * all deceased characters * all Celestials, by choir/band * all Celestials, by Superior * all characters, by book * all Fallen Angels, with former and current Words, if any I'm sure there are other subsets that would be of use to people, and I'm willing to consider them. I just need the ideas. Please send comments and suggestions to sfeldon@microsoft.com, and I'll summarize. steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:43:52 -0400 From: joejet@prtc.net (joejet) Subject: IN> Resonance mechanics - --------------7EAA8775371D375A6CAD8887 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a question regarding the Resonance mechanics rule. It says that for a character to use his/her Resonance, he/she must roll a D666 equal to his Perception skill. Does that mean that a character with low Perception skill number, lets say 6, would have a better chance (5+1, 4+2, 3+3) of using her/his Resonance, than a Character with a Perception skill number of 12 (6+6)!?? Jose - --------------7EAA8775371D375A6CAD8887 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a question regarding the Resonance mechanics rule.
It says that for a character to use his/her Resonance, he/she must roll a D666 equal to his Perception skill.
    Does that mean that a character with low Perception skill number, lets say 6, would have a better chance (5+1, 4+2, 3+3) of using her/his Resonance, than a Character with a Perception skill number of 12 (6+6)!??
 

Jose - --------------7EAA8775371D375A6CAD8887-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:26:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Resonance mechanics At 2:43 PM -0400 4/10/98, joejet wrote: > I have a question regarding the Resonance mechanics rule. It says that for a >character to use his/her Resonance, he/she must roll a D666 equal to his >Perception skill. Does that mean that a character with low Perception skill >number, lets say 6, would have a better chance (5+1, 4+2, 3+3) of using her/his >Resonance, than a Character with a Perception skill number of 12 (6+6)!?? Hardly! Okay, you have to roll d666 and get *your Perception or lower* on the two target-number dice. The third, the check die, is used to determine what the information received is (on the table). Look at page 38, under "The d666" -- "To succeed, you must roll a given number (the _target number_) or less, so *roll low*." Though the explanation on p. 56 says "equal to," you're supposed to go back to the success definition on p.38. Whenever it says "equal to," it probably means "equal to or less than" -- unless it says *exactly* or some other qualifier (and I don't think there are any of those in the book!). Also go look at the Errata and FAQs, if you can ( http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine ) and note that Kyriotates roll against Will, not Perception, while Lilim roll against Perception, not Will. So calling a resonance "demonic" or "divine" is a little bit of a misnomer. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:35:34 -0400 From: John Karakash - LUCENT ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a volunteer! Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >I'm still just looking for dead links. AMONG other things. > > She is taming the morass, the sucking, swirling eddies, the quicksand > that is the INC beneath the calm surface... > > She is going to get a Distinction out of this. The first thing that needs to be done, is to remove the link for In Nomine from the volunteers page. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:39:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Some Thoughts on Free Will On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, R. Sean Borgstrom wrote: > Many In Nomine powers amount to, well, mind control. This can be fun, > sometimes, but it also disempowers players a fair bit -- as do the > rather mechanical Falling rules and some of the Discords. Some ideas > for how to fix this are available at > > http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~rsean/gaming/will.html I have that /gaming/ directory bookmarked...I'm curious why you don't just put up an HTML file that indexes all of them. > I make no representations that this is the best of all possible fixes; > it's just some thoughts thrown together. :) Very good stuff, I must say. I REALLY liked the Kyriotate fix; I am going to seriously consider using that in my campaign. The Lilim fix was very good as well, though I'm not sure if I'll use it. The other demons...well, I never saw a problem with them. Demons bend peoples' wills; I always accepted that as a part of the game. Good stuff all, though! Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:55:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Some Thoughts on Free Will On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, York H. Dobyns wrote: > What I find more of an issue is the assertion, made in the basic rules > and emphasized in the APG, that Falling is fundamentally a moral choice. > The rules, to put it mildly, fail to convey this. For a majority of > Choirs, granted, Dissonance strictures are ethical. A Seraph must not > lie; Elohim must not allow their personal desires to overrule their > impartial judgement; Kyriotates must not harm their hosts; Mercurians > must not resort to violence; Malakim must honor their oaths. But a Cherub > can become dissonant by trying to do too much, or by plain bad luck. As I see the rules, a Cherub can only become dissonant by going against his nature: i.e., failing to protect and stand by his charges. If he attunes to nine different people at once and one gets hurt because he wasn't there, then yes, he was going against his nature--you don't attune to someone lightly, so you don't do it unless you CAN protect them. Bad luck? If you mean failing to remove an attunement, then again, I say he just got called for going against his nature (when he succeeds, he got away with it); you don't attune, then take it back, IOW. > Ofanim can suffer dissonance just by being *incompetent*, or by doing > their best and still failing a roll. (IIRC, even if something has been > boosted into the auto-success range, it still is subject to Intervention, > right?) True for the last part, plus I always play that a natural 12 fails except for trivial, unopposed actions; I don't like autosuccess. Ofanim earn dissonance for inaction (which you already know, and didn't mention, but I'm just being complete) or for stumbling, yes. This is the sole angelic choir that I have to fully agree can fall from bad luck or impossible situations. This is basically (it seems) to discourage them from using their Resonance lightly, or from just not buying skills and leaving them at defaults. I don't really agree with it, and I wonder if play balance would be the same if it was removed. After all, dissonance through inaction is still pretty heavy... > Matters get worse with some of the Superiors, who impose > Dissonance strictures that have nothing visible to do with morality. It's not morality, it's nature. When you serve a Superior, you accept their nature as part of your resonance with the Symphony. You then have to live that way or seek out a new Superior. > A Servitor of Janus can Fall just from staying in one place too long? Yes. Angels who serve Janus are actively rebelling against their nature by staying in one place for too long. When you go against your nature, you risk falling. > A Servitor of Laurence gets Dissonance for disobeying the spirit *or* > the letter of an order, no matter how boneheaded it may be in the light > of later or local developments? (Maybe Laurence never makes mistakes. > Right. I seem to recall some serious theological issues about any > created being making *that* claim.) So? You don't disobey orders...Laurence makes sure of that. If you don't like it, you don't follow him. OF course, if you are given a real bonehead order, you can simply relay it to the next highest level (even to Laurence himself if you think it's THAT important), and they can overrule it. It's also implied that if you break the order but the person who gave the order commends you for it because it was the ONLY sane thing to do, then the dissonance will vanish. (It fits with all the other "getting rid of dissonance" descriptions in the APG...) Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:16:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a volunteer! > > >I'm still just looking for dead links. AMONG other things. > > > > She is taming the morass, the sucking, swirling eddies, the quicksand > > that is the INC beneath the calm surface... > > > > She is going to get a Distinction out of this. > > The first thing that needs to be done, is > to remove the link for In Nomine from the volunteers > page. ;) > Ha! HAHA! A FUNNY! I would have, but I can't. Sniff. Such is life. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:45:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Some Thoughts on Free Will On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, R. Sean Borgstrom wrote: > I make no representations that this is the best of all possible fixes; > it's just some thoughts thrown together. :) My first thought upon reading it: "This would be a fabulous resource for folks running Soldier campaigns." Instead of just telling a PC, "Well, the Shedite made his roll, so you do this awful thing," you get a wonderful way to roleplay it. For celestial campaigns, though...I dunno. I think I'll stick with the dice just to make things easier. I'm also a bit iffy on the Kyrio bit. I like their new check digit table, and will immediately be integrated into my campaign, pasted over that awful -4 table in the APG. But the bit about how the person -must- be willing seems a bit too disempowering. I personally like the idea of an angel co-opting the body of a Soldier of Hell and wreaking havoc from within the ranks....but then, I'm just twisted. ;) Excellent, excellent work. I love everything you've done so far...your writeup on Gabriel gave me a handle on a Superior I never quite 'got', and your Eli stuff was simply BRILLIANT. (It doesn't hurt that Eli is currently frotzing around with my PC group...handy timing, that.) Do you take requests? If so, I'd love to see what you do with Dominic. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:52:15 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Jean is at large! You find the weirdest things on the Web. Like a system-dynamics model of mystical experience. I quote: "In this combined structualist and phenomenological analysis of Phase I, it is implied that religion will progress in the same way as science has progressed - by focusing on the measurement or quantification of fundamental phenomena. For example, the great advances in science initiated by the discovery of the law of gravity and the laws of motion by Kepler, Galileo and Newton were preceded by the careful measurements of planetary motion by Tycho Brahe. The emerging general theory of religion proceeds in a similar way. It starts with the assumption that the experience of mystical union is fundamental to religion." You can find this at http://world.std.com/~awolpert - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:24:40 -0400 From: "Robert L Wears, MD, MS" Subject: IN> Put me on the IN NOMINE mailing list!! I am relatively new to gaming, but I immensly enjoy this game!! so please put me on the mailing list!! Thank you!! MATT WEARS AKA: TIMOTHEUS NICKNAME: KING KONG (long story!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:57:39 -0700 From: Bart Hammerly Subject: Re: IN> Jean is at large! I quote myself: Hmmrph? Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > You find the weirdest things on the Web. Like a system-dynamics model of > mystical experience. > > I quote: > > "In this combined structualist and phenomenological analysis of Phase I, it > is > implied that religion will progress in the same way as science has > progressed - > by focusing on the measurement or quantification of fundamental phenomena. > For > example, the great advances in science initiated by the discovery of the > law of > gravity and the laws of motion by Kepler, Galileo and Newton were preceded by > the careful measurements of planetary motion by Tycho Brahe. The emerging > general theory of religion proceeds in a similar way. It starts with the > assumption that the experience of mystical union is fundamental to religion." > > You can find this at > > http://world.std.com/~awolpert > > -- > Neel Krishnaswami > neelk@alum.mit.edu - -- Bart Hammerly H: 526-0607 "Time is the fire in which we burn." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:09:22 -0400 From: IceHeart EvenFall Subject: IN> Rather Odd Questions for the SJG Net-reps Good morning all and welcome to my little piece of insanity : Upon reading In Nomine I loved it and decided to make a character or two just to test-drive the mechanics. BUT I hated the character sheets, WAY too small, nowhere near enough room to play with. So I made my own full sized (8 1/2 x 11) sheets, and all was well, but they didn't have the same feel as the original sheets. So I looked for ways to make them more "authentic" and came across my main stumbling block : The font. Question 1: The font that was used in the book, is it a normal font that I can get from somewhere? Question 2: This kinda depends on the answer to the first question.. I made my own TTF Version of the In Nomine font (creativly titled "in nomine on my Harddrive). Would it be a copyright violation to distribute this font assuming that the font isn't currently available? Question 3: What about the final version of my character sheets? Could I make those available on a website without having to worry about getting sued? Ice. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------- IceHeart [iceheart@iceheart.org] [http://www.iceheart.org] "Some days the line I walk turns out to be straight, other days the line tends to Deviate" - Ani DiFranco ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #713 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.