From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Apr 16 21:00:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10278 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:00:43 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA17034 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:37:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:37:59 -0500 Message-Id: <199804170137.UAA17034@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #718 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, April 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 718 In this digest: IN> Djinn IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions Re: IN> Djinn Re: IN> Re: IN- Shedim of Death: Old questions Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions Re: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) Re: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) IN> Waycool poem! (For Servitors of Jean? Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions Re: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions Re: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) Re: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) RE: IN> Djinn RE: IN> Djinn IN> IPG Re: IN> IPG IN> Curious about your favorite Demon Prince? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:08:16 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Djinn >Additionally, Djinn of Nightmares, are charged with physically terrorizing people, stalking them and making their lives miserable.... Does this mean that the restrictions of their resonance are lifted? What's the point of entering the Nightmare of someone! attuned if the Djinn can't harm him at all?< Unless it got cut from the final draft (I haven't received my copies of the IPG yet), I believe the expanded Band description specifically notes that Djinn of Nightmares don't take dissonance for causing emotional distress to their attuned. You seem to be seeing the Djinn dissonance restrictions as more restrictive than they are -- a Djinn can't directly harm those that he attunes to. But he can harm anything else he wants to. He can lead his buddies to the attuned and stand by laughing while his buddies slowly dismember his attuned. He can hunt someone down with his attunement, then attempt to sever the attunement before proceeding to mangle the victim. A Djinn's purpose is not usually to do "wetwork." Djinn are stalkers. They hunt things, they keep track of things. If a Prince wants a mortal killed, he won't send a Djinn. If he wants a mortal terrorized, he may send a Djinn to keep track of the victim and another demon as a partner to actually do the terrorizing. But if he wants to make sure every good thing is removed from a mortal's life, if he wants to make sure a mortal is misunderstood by those around him and becomes a social pariah, if he wants to find out who's associating with whom, or if he wants to use one thing as a focus to spread misery to others, he'll send a Djinn. There are plenty of horrible, diabolical things Djinn can do, including violence. They just can't act directly against whoever or whatever they are attuned to at the moment. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:12:01 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) >Okay, here's how I see the Djinn. Please note that it is as non-canon as it can get.< Actually, your description is pretty close to canonical Djinn. >Warning: This post is very dark. I plumbed some very nasty depths of my mind to write this, and it disturbs me when I realize that this came from my head. It will offend some people. This is good, since we're talking about demons, who by their very nature aren't supposed to be nice people. You Have Been Warned.< Gee, I guess I'm a real sicko -- I thought your description was pretty tame. ;) - -David (who wrote Magog, Demon Prince of Cruelty) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:26:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions > > Well, besides that one Noted Author has said something about > > burying Brights in anthills, what was scary about them? > > Hordes of softly glowing Bright Lilim following Laurence around with > puppy-dog eyes, asking if they can 'touch it'. This will keep me awake for > MONTHS > > ('it' being the sword. Get your Inner Shedite away from me.) > Humph. Maybe it's just the novelty. Besides, Laurence has a very BIG sword, and it's all encased in a leather sheath. And he uses it with such expertise. :) - - Em. Current Quote: Daimon says, "You know what Hell is? Here's a joke: There were two old ladies at a resturant. One of them complains, 'The food here is terrible.' The second one says, 'Yes, and such small portions.' That's Hell." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:14:22 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions Rhodri James writes >Today I wandered into my local games shop and got the shock of my life. >The IPG was up on the shelves! Over this side of the Atlantic we usually >get stuff a month or more after its US release, so this was a little >surprising. I found it particularly shocking because the Liber Reliquarum >hasn't made it to Cambridge yet. > Unlucky. My local games stores always seem to be on the ball, and get the supplements in really quickly. Judging from some comments on this list, perhaps even faster than some US game stores get them. Anyhow. From what I've read of the IPG so far (about two thirds) I think that its very good. This coming from someone who has generally liked ALL the supplements so far, it may be taken with a pinch of salt, but this is most certainly my favourite to date. I'm sure that many who found the APG expanded choir resonance stuff not to their liking will have less to mumble over with the treatment of the demonic bands. This is the first section of the book that I went for. Their resonances just seem to have a nicer 'feel' to them, and are more an extension or clarification of existing ability rather than a branching off into new territory. I particularly liked Maya's Shedim stuff and David's Calabite write-up is giving me some horrible ideas. Really though, it was *all* good. My one gripe would be with the Impudite resonance. Despite mechanics on ways of increasing your manipulation of a victim, the initial chance is still pitiable. Jo Hart brought this up some time ago, and her suggestion for correcting it would make fine errata, IMHO. It would also make the new Impie stuff that much more worthwhile. One thing that I do like to see in supplements is examples of famous members of choirs/bands. It starts a ball rolling in my head. I noticed in a couple of David Edelstein's sections (who is always good for this in particular) the mention of Semyaza and Azazel as being members of certain Bands. Now, this may be bye the bye, but *traditionally* these guys were once Watchers, so I'm wondering whether in future, when we see more coverage of the Grigori, might we find that when some of them were welcomed into Hell, they were accepted into the most appropriate Bands as an alternative to their's did not exist? I don't need an answer to this either way, I'm just musing... Finally, a word of congratulations to all involved. Constructive criticism is all well and good, but a word of thanks is nice to hear occasionally, especially when well deserved. - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:15:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Djinn At 6:31 PM -0400 4/15/98, Richard L Thomas wrote: >Djinn >The Infernal Player Guide not only doesn't mention this at all, it seems to >make the Djinn resonance even more stringent, including emotional and >psychological harm. Check the errata for the main book -- Djinn are restrained from causing physical harm. Emotional harm is more iffy -- they *do* tend to terrorize the objects of their stalkings, so that was removed. As for the rest -- I believe a rather creepy little story of a Djinn Stalking was posted here a while back, and there are some Djinn in the stories on the INC fiction page. (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/fiction.html) (Unofficial pages, but kindly hosted at SJ Games.) Not to mention the main-book Djinn-vignette, where the Djinn wanders up and calmly sits down next to his attuned. Who is dying. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:21:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Shedim of Death: Old questions At 7:02 PM -0700 4/15/98, David Streeter wrote: >> I think Beth's point was that there was a residuum >>of the soul left... [...] >I figure the corporeal body is like a set of clothes for the soul. If >you had someone's clothes, you could tell how tall they were, perhaps >what colours they liked, what gender they were, etc. > >From this metaphor, by inhabiting a body, you have some access to >skills, memories etc. Of course, as the body decays, you have less to go >on, much like if a set of clothes decayed. Death-Shedim, being able to animate the vessel anyway, can gain impressions left on the physical braincells. As others have said, physical skills would probably be retained longer than mental ones... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:23:13 -0400 From: John Karakash - LUCENT ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 9:00 PM -0500 4/14/98, Dataweaver wrote: > >and I was very surprised that nothing > >to the effect of Gray Lilim were even hinted at. Ohterwise, though, a > >very solid book. > > Well, if you can find me something to *cut*... We only got > about 6 pages per Band, after all. (I already had to chainsaw that > section a few times...) I can vouch for this. Beth hacked it down twice, sweating blood each time, then asked for my opinions since I was less personally involved. Then she went back and squeezed it down again. By the end I'm sure she was thinking, "Are 3-pt fonts _really_ all that bad?" ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:49:51 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) At 04:58 16/04/98 -0400, you wrote: >Okay, here's how I see the Djinn. Please note that it is as non-canon as >it can get. > Nice, Casca ;) jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:32:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, David Edelstein wrote: > Actually, your description is pretty close to canonical Djinn. You haven't seen the dissonance condition for Djinn IMC. ;) > Gee, I guess I'm a real sicko -- I thought your description was pretty > tame. ;) What worries me is that, while I was writing it, I actually began to - -empathize- with them. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:39:34 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> Waycool poem! (For Servitors of Jean? Not mine, but sent to me, and I had to share it. > >A poll conducted among INFOCUS magazine readers had established "waka" >as the proper pronunciation for the angle-bracket characters <, though some >readers held out resolutely for "norkies." > >The following poem appeared recently in INFOCUS magazine. >The original authors were Fred Bremmer and Steve Kroese of Calvin >College & Seminary of Grand Rapids, MI. > >The text of the poem follows: > > <> !*''# > ^"`$$- > !*=@$_ > %*<> ~#4 > &[]../ > |{,,SYSTEM HALTED > > >The poem can only be appreciated by reading it aloud, to wit: > > Waka waka bang splat tick tick hash, > Caret quote back-tick dollar dollar dash, > Bang splat equal at dollar under-score, > Percent splat waka waka tilde number four, > Ampersand bracket bracket dot dot slash, > Vertical-bar curly-bracket comma comma CRASH. > > - --- Maya, Elohite of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:16:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions At 1:23 PM -0400 4/16/98, John Karakash - LUCENT ASCC wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> At 9:00 PM -0500 4/14/98, Dataweaver wrote: >> >and I was very surprised that nothing >> >to the effect of Gray Lilim were even hinted at. Ohterwise, though, a >> >very solid book. >> >> Well, if you can find me something to *cut*... We only got >> about 6 pages per Band, after all. (I already had to chainsaw that >> section a few times...) > > I can vouch for this. Beth hacked it down twice, >sweating blood each time, then asked for my opinions since I >was less personally involved. Then she went back and >squeezed it down again. By the end I'm sure she was thinking, >"Are 3-pt fonts _really_ all that bad?" ;) Every book with an official In Nomine magnifying glass included! No, really, I would have stopped at 9-point times. Or maybe 6. I can read 6-point type. It's not so bad. Really. *resonate* - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:48:35 +0500 From: daiv@cruzio.com (David M. Barr) Subject: Re: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) >Okay, here's how I see the Djinn. Please note that it is as non-canon as >it can get. > another Djinn thing, in my opinion. Wait til your attuneds birthday party. Stand accrross the street with a sniper rifle, and kill everone who attends, exept your attuned one. Along those lines; the TV show "Profiler" has a regular/recurring cahracter named Jack, a serial killer, whose MO is to kill everyone who is associated with the object of his affection. In his mind, apparently, he is killing removing everyone between himself and his beloved. Can you see the Djinn in him? - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:23:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Dataweaver Subject: Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, John Karakash - LUCENT ASCC wrote: > Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > At 9:00 PM -0500 4/14/98, Dataweaver wrote: > > >and I was very surprised that nothing > > >to the effect of Gray Lilim were even hinted at. Ohterwise, though, a > > >very solid book. > > > > Well, if you can find me something to *cut*... We only got > > about 6 pages per Band, after all. (I already had to chainsaw that > > section a few times...) > > I can vouch for this. Beth hacked it down twice, > sweating blood each time, then asked for my opinions since I > was less personally involved. Then she went back and > squeezed it down again. By the end I'm sure she was thinking, > "Are 3-pt fonts _really_ all that bad?" ;) Lest anyone gets the wrong idea, I was _not_ disappointed by the IPG one bit; it's fascinating reading, and very useful. And I realize that a lot of stuff got cut (if In Nomine writers are anything like GURPS writers - and they are - the original draft was probably too big by a factor of at least two...); but that's part of what makes the products so _good_ - there's never a shortage of material. I had, however, been under the mistaken impression that Gray Lilim were unique, and thus would warrant special attention in the definitive writeup of the Lilim; it simply never occurred to me that other Bands would also have Grays (and I _still_ have great difficulty picturing a Gray Shedite...). - ---- Jonathan Lang ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver --------- Webpage: http://www.io.com/~traveler /@\ The Dogma of Otherness insists GURPSnet's Benevolent Tyrant for Life ~~~ that all voices deserve a hearing, FAQ: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/www | that all points of view have Archive: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet | something of value to offer. submit new files to gurpsnet-files@io.com | --David Brin, "Otherness" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:48:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide -- First Impressions At 3:23 PM -0500 4/16/98, Dataweaver wrote: >On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, John Karakash - LUCENT ASCC wrote: >> Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> > At 9:00 PM -0500 4/14/98, Dataweaver wrote: >> > >and I was very surprised that nothing >> > >to the effect of Gray Lilim were even hinted at. Ohterwise, though, a >> > >very solid book. >> > >> > Well, if you can find me something to *cut*... We only got >> > about 6 pages per Band, after all. (I already had to chainsaw that >> > section a few times...) [...] >I had, however, been under the mistaken impression that Gray Lilim were >unique, and thus would warrant special attention in the definitive writeup >of the Lilim; it simply never occurred to me that other Bands would also >have Grays (and I _still_ have great difficulty picturing a Gray >Shedite...). Well, when I thought about it... A Gray Habbalite. He backlashed Emptiness, but he thinks he's more useful ('objectively'?) with the ability to punish demons. Then I went further... Basically, 'gray Renegades' are those who 'do good' but for some reason, don't want to go Bright. I started with Lilim and expanded. Hopefully, it will be a Pyramid article sometime... (Subscribe! Subscribe!) Shedim have a hard time, yes. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:11:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Casca wrote: > On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, David Edelstein wrote: > > > Actually, your description is pretty close to canonical Djinn. > > You haven't seen the dissonance condition for Djinn IMC. ;) You KNOW you can't say something like that and not post 'em. :) Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:14:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Djinn (Very Dark!) That was such a good summary, I'm printing it out and gluing it in my book... Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:25:55 -0400 From: Richard L Thomas Subject: RE: IN> Djinn - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6965.615DEA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That was my point, the duo thing, incase anyone hasn't realized this but = demons aren't exactly team players something to do with being evil and = selfish or something..... - -----Original Message----- From: SienarFLT [SMTP:SienarFLT@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 9:58 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Djinn In a message dated 98-04-15 18:41:18 EDT, you write: > As NPCs they are of some value, but as demons their very resonance = actually=20 > prevents them from being demonic. "Ooooo, I know where you are, what = your=20 > doing, every significant thing that you've done in your life, even = who's=20 > watching you, but I can't even tell you that because it might cause = you=20 > psychological damage". This is a Demon? This is a Stalker of Hell? Remember that it is not necessarily the power/resonance of a celestial = that makes it demonic/angelic, it is rather the motive behind doing any = particular action. A djinn, in the most generic demonic sense, attunes itself to = things for essentially selfish reasons, not to protect it like its counterpart = the Cherubim do. And as a matter of fact, yes, this makes them the most effective = "Stalkers of Hell." Stalking someone or something doesn't imply that the demon can = or should damage or hurt it, just that the demon knows where that something = is, and knows of it continually, all of the time. Think of the djinn and = calabim duo, or the hunter and the destroyer. The djinn has the easiest time = locating something (as long as it is attuned to it) and then the calabite goes = and kills it. Not all demons are meant to be combat monsters, but djinn can = be very, very nasty. All of this without delving into anything the IPG has = to say on this matter of course. -- Thom. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6965.615DEA00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjoWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAyAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAATwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGluX25vbWluZS1sQGxp c3RzLmlvLmNvbQBTTVRQAGluX25vbWluZS1sQGxpc3RzLmlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01U UAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABkAAABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5pby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4P BgAAAB4AATABAAAAGwAAACdpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5pby5jb20nAAACAQswAQAAAB4AAABT TVRQOklOX05PTUlORS1MQExJU1RTLklPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABkA AABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5pby5jb20AAAAAAgH3XwEAAABPAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A 3QEPVAIAAAAAaW5fbm9taW5lLWxAbGlzdHMuaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAaW5fbm9taW5lLWxAbGlzdHMu aW8uY29tAAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAtljAQSAAQAOAAAAUkU6IElO PiBEamlubgDZAwEFgAMADgAAAM4HBAAQABIAGQA3AAQATwEBIIADAA4AAADOBwQAEAASABgAJQAE ADwBAQmAAQAhAAAAQTQ5QzFGOTg1NUQ1RDExMTk4MzU0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAAzgYBA5AGANwIAAAh AAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AIDZ Q5+Gab0BHgBwAAEAAAAOAAAAUkU6IElOPiBEamlubgAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9aYafCZgfnKXV VRHRmDVERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAZAAAAaXhkcmFnb25zQG1p bmRzcHJpbmcuY29tAAAAAAMABhCYQp+DAwAHEG0FAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABUSEFUV0FTTVlQT0lO VCxUSEVEVU9USElORyxJTkNBU0VBTllPTkVIQVNOVFJFQUxJWkVEVEhJU0JVVERFTU9OU0FSRU5U RVhBQ1RMWVRFQU1QTEFZRVJTU09NRVRISU5HVE9EAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAwgUAAL4FAAClCAAATFpG dSWN2Od3AAoBAwH3IAKkA+MCAGOCaArAc2V0MCAHE4cCgwBQDvZwcnEyD/YmfQqACMggOwlvMjVm NQKACoF1YwBQCwNjAwBBC2BuZzEwMzOZC6YgVA+ABUB3YQQgIG15IHBvC4B0LAAgdGhlIGR1b9sX gQuAZxdwC4BjFsAXsB0AcHkCIBewD4BzbifnBUAJcAdAaXoJgBgCBCD8YnUFQAEABGAGMQrACfBJ GaFleADQdGwXAHRtGeBtFxALYHkEkAQgc98DcA/AGCIXgBfwZBfwA/DLF5AaoGUdgmV2AxEAcPMa QA+wbGYEAB5QBbEdJ34uIKIKogqECoQLMBoAM942AUAVEAFAEUBvHFAcAKEQhDE2IC0jsk8FEB5n C4AHQAXQB5BzYWd+ZSOzIPYixCKRCxMixmkwLTE0NAFAGgAxOI4wAUAM0CdTYiBGA2FqOgyDYg/g UwiQJFByAEZMVCBbU01UpFA6KXdAYQbwLgWgfG1dIPUogAZgAjAo51ezCYAZMHNkHMAXcEERQAkD ETE1F3AxOTk4kCA5OjUucFBNK5fMVG8o5wuAX24DcAuACSTwbEAaAHN0cy6MaW8rQiuYdWJqIvEB KOdSZTogSU4++CBEaguAC5AlbyZ5IhTrC7YhA0kDoGEW4CSkF8BHFoAaMS5gLTA0J0A1QS3wODo0 MTonwCDYRURUF3AZEHUWoAUQLxxQKOAhCTOwQQehUENfBCAXkRcAG2Ef0GYdEyD+dgdAClAXcBqy FsEa9ReR+mkFwHYEkBcACXAdICRQ9xiQGNEcAHUHQBwhOsYRQH8e0CwxO6McgANSHmUa82mAYy4g ICJPb0LRsRdwSSBrMHAH4HcXoP88ITnCG2EXcEOgFoE5wQrUvzsCHfAYM0ChPqEAkGcDAL8fkBig AjAYBBeBRLQnPoDfHeEZMQuARNQaAGY9EUCiuUORbycEITrVFrB0D3D/HYI5wT0kQzBG8RuiSaIc UN8/wDmzR6MecBigdRjBHjB7FuAkIGgFQE20OcJAB3P+eQ9wCPEkMBigAyAtUADAfSTgIkKBFmAa gRqBN1BElRsCP1EqUwGQbGsEkPU8QkhMwT8g+jNQB4AG0P9TUUejThEagTBwBUAZMD9AXySxLcEc MRehFyB3BJAvrz7YPFE3UD9AbAeQdAcxf0eTIPQAwFNAUXEa1UJgL98VYR9wQmAYYVWzchaAQ7H/ F4MEYFjgSDEecBghGkBFs08Y4hcQCsBY4GN1C2By1yD0G/ExYG5CgUEXwDPidxhiXDUxICAk4Bkw BRBj/0IGH1EAgD0RFoA/kC0hTgH/H2IdshgTD0AhAwIQBcAkob8sMQcxHCEfZhnRPvFzF3D/VgId wSK1TgIaAFNAYsJL8L8IYAIwBJBeAheCIPRDQ7HvMmAHcB3hIOtBHzEWwTdR+2JRU1RmG/E5oQeQ F3Iagb9Z1EETYFcBESLxXLIiUwXPBCA8UCD0U7IuIkKQUwP/HYIdIhkiH+od4QeQGZIHcP8LUFbi FoEXkxsCS/If0SD0ux+wCGBsXUFQsx/SaAhw+1WCF3BqTdBHInNbQ1IEIO9DpEejHSgEACxepR8x d8TvPFFOEQWgZLFuP6NiMUzRnzxRF5JY4AeAURRua3wG/1+zHxNQYQGgB3Ag9BfRF3D/BbEXknXw aCIfE3OEMSADYP8c0VETfaYZYReDZcEIkHai2wdxSSBvGKB7MWd0hR03/igWwQkAXZJaE1GSYmMa QfsX8B4wKYBWYDR+ZBxQYNB/cmEfEiD0cLA/wFoSQoFO/1YRe9Ia+DdhRwMX8B5wZ+H/BtAWgRsS aDFmERqzfdN0In8ecCD0PoIXcD6DJFAxIHm/X2J75hqBHiIIYBrSbB7gP3lCAjAX8BjxR0YXsElQ +keCNG90hRzAH9BgMmzD/2t2Z/EPoSDrI6EWUQNwIOUFEgEAl0AAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAEAAAAD AIAQ/////0AABzDAAoxwhmm9AUAACDDAAoxwhmm9AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOF AAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAA AAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA OIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AAA4Ww== - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6965.615DEA00-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:50:50 -0400 From: Richard L Thomas Subject: RE: IN> Djinn - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6969.A1178E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ooops, sorry. Let me make something clear (pause for drum rolls) I LOVE = DJINN, they appeal to my sick and dark mind. The real and main point of = my post was that I was disappointed that Djinn being able to cause = mayhem once their attuned asks of something of the Djinn, an example you = ask? ok I'll try real quick. I am a Djinn of Fate, Kronos asks me to encourage a John Smith to = embrace his Fate. Being the obedient hellspawn that I am I promptly = attune myself to Mr. Smith. After studying the object of my undying = devotion I learn a few things. 1) he is a corporate mover and shaker, = 2) his fate is to go psycho after missing the most important meeting of = his career and kill himself, 3) the meeting is today. I allow my = demonic mind to come up with something truly from the left hand = (diabolical that is) and the proverbial light bulb materializes over my = head. I then proceed to Mr. Smiths car and disable it. I happen to be = driving by and innocently ask "Hey buddy need a ride?" once Mr. Smith = says yes I grin an evil grin and tell him to hop in. I proceed to take = him, the doors locked of course, through the most congested route I can = think of, or better yet I stage a 10-20 car pile up before hand. Using = various songs I ensure that Mr. Smith is.... well primed. I reach over = to the glove compartment pull out my pistol (how convenient) and = screaming I hate rubber neckers I begin to posture and threaten no how I = should use this gun. Already having missed the meeting I look at Mr. = Smith and tossing him the gun I tell him he should use it, they made him = late, stupid Sunday drivers........=20 All this whether it works or not is dependant on one thing.. Smith's = answer to the question do you need a ride? I was wondering if the fact = that no supplement touches on this, revoke what is in the main book. I = thought a major point of being this Stalker form Hell is setting up = situations in which the attuned asks for the Demons help thereby = relieving him of his strictures and the games begin (no relation to = Asmodeus). - -----Original Message----- From: David Edelstein [SMTP:AmadanSJG@compuserve.com] Sent: Thursday, April 16, 1998 8:08 AM To: INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: IN> Djinn >Additionally, Djinn of Nightmares, are charged with physically = terrorizing people, stalking them and making their lives miserable.... Does this = mean that the restrictions of their resonance are lifted? What's the point = of entering the Nightmare of someone! attuned if the Djinn can't harm him at all?< Unless it got cut from the final draft (I haven't received my copies of = the IPG yet), I believe the expanded Band description specifically notes = that Djinn of Nightmares don't take dissonance for causing emotional distress = to their attuned. You seem to be seeing the Djinn dissonance restrictions as more = restrictive than they are -- a Djinn can't directly harm those that he attunes to. = But he can harm anything else he wants to. He can lead his buddies to the attuned and stand by laughing while his buddies slowly dismember his attuned. He can hunt someone down with his attunement, then attempt to sever the attunement before proceeding to mangle the victim. A Djinn's purpose is not usually to do "wetwork." Djinn are stalkers. = They hunt things, they keep track of things. If a Prince wants a mortal = killed, he won't send a Djinn. If he wants a mortal terrorized, he may send a = Djinn to keep track of the victim and another demon as a partner to actually = do the terrorizing. But if he wants to make sure every good thing is = removed from a mortal's life, if he wants to make sure a mortal is misunderstood = by those around him and becomes a social pariah, if he wants to find out = who's associating with whom, or if he wants to use one thing as a focus to = spread misery to others, he'll send a Djinn. There are plenty of horrible, diabolical things Djinn can do, including violence. They just can't act directly against whoever or whatever they are attuned to at the moment. - -David - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6969.A1178E40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhcWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAyAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAATwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGluX25vbWluZS1sQGxp c3RzLmlvLmNvbQBTTVRQAGluX25vbWluZS1sQGxpc3RzLmlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01U UAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABkAAABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5pby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4P BgAAAB4AATABAAAAGwAAACdpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5pby5jb20nAAACAQswAQAAAB4AAABT TVRQOklOX05PTUlORS1MQExJU1RTLklPLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABkA AABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5pby5jb20AAAAAAgH3XwEAAABPAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A 3QEPVAIAAAAAaW5fbm9taW5lLWxAbGlzdHMuaW8uY29tAFNNVFAAaW5fbm9taW5lLWxAbGlzdHMu aW8uY29tAAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAtljAQSAAQAOAAAAUkU6IElO 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/TcAAF+M - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6969.A1178E40-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:53:22 PDT From: "Chris Crowe" Subject: IN> IPG i just picked up the IPG too. i like it, especially because it's in the same format and style as the APG. and did anyone else notice that the APG and IPG covers form one piece of art? i really liked that and the fact that it sorta mimics that stained glass picture in the main rule book. just neat. i would have liked to see 1 or 2 new songs (the APG added 2, even if the Trisagion is practically useless and unrealistic for a Earth assigned angel to have, and technically impossible for any non-Seraph or non-Izachim to have since they are the only to choirs i've run across in literature who sing the 'Holy Holy Holy' song). Bright Lilim are great, even if there were no attunements for them like i thought there would be. i forget who else wrote about it, but my local store still doesn't have the LR either. Krowe Malakim of Destiny, Angel of Redemption ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:42:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Dataweaver Subject: Re: IN> IPG On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Chris Crowe wrote: > i just picked up the IPG too. > i like it, especially because it's in the same format and style as the > APG. and did anyone else notice that the APG and IPG covers form one > piece of art? i really liked that and the fact that it sorta mimics that > stained glass picture in the main rule book. just neat. I caught the cover art bit, but not the stained glass picture... > i would have liked to see 1 or 2 new songs (the APG added 2, even if the > Trisagion is practically useless and unrealistic for a Earth assigned > angel to have, and technically impossible for any non-Seraph or > non-Izachim to have since they are the only to choirs i've run across in > literature who sing the 'Holy Holy Holy' song). As far as that goes, I would have preferred to have had the "childbirthing" Song repeated from APG, rather than assuming that everyone who wants their demon to have a kid has access to the APG (but see below...) > Bright Lilim are great, even if there were no attunements for them like > i thought there would be. I think that's because Bright Lilim don't get Choir Attunements in the canon version. Lessee... Things That Were Left Out Of IPG (Due to lack of space, I assume): 1. Bright Lilim choir attunements 2. Gray Lilim (and other Gray Bands; I'm definitely looking forward to these...) 3. The fertility Song. 4. There Is No 4. 5. ? - ---- Jonathan Lang ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver --------- Webpage: http://www.io.com/~traveler /@\ The Dogma of Otherness insists GURPSnet's Benevolent Tyrant for Life ~~~ that all voices deserve a hearing, FAQ: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/www | that all points of view have Archive: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet | something of value to offer. submit new files to gurpsnet-files@io.com | --David Brin, "Otherness" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:24:42 -0300 From: Marcelo Soares Subject: IN> Curious about your favorite Demon Prince? Hello guys! I was just brownsing through my books last night and I found "The secret lore of magic" by Idres Shah - yeah, I have weid things here - and I stump over a part of it called "The book of spirits" and "the demon catalog" those bring some descriptions of some demons, and to my surprise I found almost all the names in the In Nomine Rulebook in it. Here are a few samples: ANDREALPHUS: a Marquis, usually appears as a peacock and can teach Math, Geometry and how to turn people in birds. ASMODEUS(ASMODAY): a King with 3 heads (goat, bull, human), rides a Dragon and carries a powerful Lance. He has many powers like invibility and to discover hidden treasures. And, he can be forced to answer any question. BAAL: This one is a King who appears as man with the head of frog or cat and has some powers over invisibility. BELETH: This one is always accompained by a band or orchestra. Beleth is one of the most dangerous Kings to invoke and has the ability to produce love among people. BELIAL: A perverse entity created right after Lucifer. Some say he was good after the Fall, since the appears as an Angel in a gorgeous carriage and can fool most of people in believing he is truly an angel. His power is over personal promotion and to make people receive favors. Oh, and he is one of the few who expect some kind of sacrifices. HAGENTI: A flying bull and powerful president of teh demons, his speciality is the transformation of metals in gold and water in wine. MALPAS(MALPHAS): A blck bird president, can make anything through supernatural means, but is a big deceiver. VALEFOR: A lion, everything that is occult can be revealed by him, also is a master of occult medicine and can cure any disease magically. He can also turns men into animals and make men skilled with theirs hands and minds. VAPULA: A flying lion, everything about formal knowlegde and handcraft habilities is controled by this Duke. Those are the ones I foundm I couldn't find anything on Kronos, Lilith or Nybbas. But can you see the coincidences, too? Vapula has control over knowledge, Haggenti has some power over wine (gluttony), maybe Valefor has to still habilities from someone to give them to another. Sure, there are somethings odd, like Andrealphus the Prince of Lust teaching Math... so what do you have to say about it? Do you know if the IN Creation team has made some research on such subjects to come up with the names and attunements of each Archangel or Demon Prince? Guess that's it Mauriel, Malakite of Fire soares@conex.com.br ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #718 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.