From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri May 1 14:41:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22947 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:41:13 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA22499 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:22:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:22:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199805011922.OAA22499@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #743 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, May 1 1998 Volume 01 : Number 743 In this digest: Re: IN>abortion (formerly:The Demon of Gun Control) Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN>abortion (formerly:The Demon of Gun Control) Re: IN> Angels & Gun Control Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words IN> Upsetting Dominic Re: IN> num.corp. question Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic IN> Npcs Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic Re: IN> Npcs Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words Re: IN> Abortion in IN Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic Re: IN> Identifying ensouled beings Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:53:24 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN>abortion (formerly:The Demon of Gun Control) On Fri, 1 May 1998, Julian Breen wrote: > the three major religions of the game, the ones that are somewhat 'in > the know', I tend to go by what's acceptable to them. Given the wide variety of virtues extolled by assorted AAs, I don't think the monotheistic religions should have the moral high ground. IMC, Judaism was 'founded' by David, and hence reflects his opinions. Christianity was supervised by Dom, Uriel and later Laurence, hence reflects their opinions. Islam was invented/received by Yves, so in either case is probably ineffable. And the fact that they seem to be 'in the know' *might* only be because we interpret 'the awareness of the Symphony' as Jehovah/Allah/*My* God(TM). Canon doesn't provide a firm answer, bless its heart. See also Hindu/Buddhist/*My* God(TM) In Nomine variants... The fact that Uriel crusaded not against the pagan religions, but against the ethereal representatives of those religions, implies to me that he didn't consider the *morals* to be utterly unacceptable, even if he didn't agree with them personally. > "I shall of course be adding assault to your long line of charges..." I don't take backchat from people whose Boss is my NPC. He can take his list of charges and stick it :-) Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:01:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions (Man, I feel really positive this morning) Excellent calls all around Thomas. I have gotten a small group of players together and introed them to IN; it's been great fun. They have just wandered into my version of Hemet, California ( a small town ). This town is my own little Hell, desiegned to show naive and innocent players (and PCs) that demons are really vile. The Lillim (of Andrea, but they don't know that) who sends school children after the PCs really freaked them out - - but a Geas is a Geas. Since I am driving this point home, it is only going to get worse. The Demon of Gun Control will probably visit, w/ a Kobal touch ( three children died today when they accidentally used their parents 9mm pistols instead of their "Really Super Duper Soakers.") When they trace those kids who attacked them (or worse, when they see the kids weeping parents on TV calling for a manhunt against whoever killed their parents) the parents will be in thrall to Gluttony and Greed (whether they know it or not), selling their children's "services" (the children being well-trained by the afore - mentioned Lillim) to important folks in town and visiting...well it goes on but the point I want to make w/ this paragraph is this: DEMONS ARE EVIL! sorry that that dragged on...at least it will contribute to my campaign. on a side note - Andre is the guy whol played Ra...speaking as a hetero male w/ no (well, no consious) gay tendancies, that actor was sexy as Hell - -which is the point. Enosh Malakim of Creation In service to Caffine (yes he's an Archangel. Just take my word) Card-carring MiVDC, Founding member of the KANCIP (Keep Acid Numinous Corpus Insanly Powerful) Coaltion On Fri, 1 May 1998, Thomas Davidson wrote: > Armand wrote: > > > > >>I'm tempted to send the Game after you for the Leonard diCaprio casting. > > >>That would be like casting Barney as Saminga, and we all know how bad that > > >>would be. > > > > > >Hey, people really do lust after diCaprio. If you want a good diCaprio > > >movie to see, skip Titanic, the ship sinks sorry I ruined it for you, > > >and rent the Basketball Diaries. > > > > > >-Jesse > > > > Of course, most of the people lusting after good ol' Leo are pre pubescent > > girls; maybe Andrealphus is downsizing. > > > > I hate to disgust anybody.... but Andrealphus (in my view) doesn't > discriminate based on age... the object of Lust can be absolutely > *any* age. In other words, yes that sixth grade teacher who "fell > in love" with the thirteen year old student belongs to Andre. In > all the joking about Andre being the DP of Lust (and its implicit > silliness), we seem to forget that Andre is a *DP*, and is, by > definition, *EVIL*. > > No, I wouldn't let Andre or any of his Servitors anywhere *near* my > children... or my grandmother, for that matter. > > What sent a chill up my spine when I read the entry on Andre in IN > was the first word I thought of to associate with Andre was > "Children". > > > Nah! > > > > I'd cast Jack Nicolson, then you start tapping into the adult market. Of > > course, I think that the most ideal DP of Lust would be Kevin Bacon. Not > > because people would be lusting after him, just the fact that he's been in > > movies with nigh on everyone, "So, you like Michelle Pfeifer? Look, I did > > a film with Bob, and he and her go way back..." > > > > Nope. Neither Jack nor Kevin are androgynous enough. Jaye Davidson > (Ra from "Stargate" and Dill from "The Crying Game") would be the > best, I think. Or perhaps even Tim Curry (Dr. Frank N. Furter from > "Rocky Horror Picture Show"). > > > That's just my take, > > Armand > > Ofanim of the Further From Leo, the Better! > > -- > > > Thomas Davidson > tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us > http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7789233/ > UIN: 7789233 > http://www.accessdenied.net/cgi-bin/main.cgi?userid=326&newuser=profile > MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix > GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim > TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs > OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, > writing. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:07:32 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN>abortion (formerly:The Demon of Gun Control) On Fri, 1 May 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > I tend to hit Seraphim who resonate 'That's the W(r)ong Thing to Do. > > God wouldn't like it.' Dominic included. > > > How could they possibly do that, unless it's the Balseraph resonance > you're speaking of? I meant grab a prophet, get him to give you the whole spiel, and dump a load of essence into your Seraph resonance roll. We've had this discussion on the list before, and the general consensus was that the 'Ping! You get the Truth!' result for CD six does you no good whatsoever in such a situation. I add that the Seraph is question shall be hit over the head with a copy of the nearest IN supplement for being so smug. Repeat offenders and Superiors, who should know better, are hit with the hardback rules. Which segues nicely back into our regular program of humorous IN... Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 13:09:32 -0400 From: John Karakash - LUCENT ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Angels & Gun Control Walter Milliken wrote: > >That jarred me too. Here in Sweden, it's national news if the police kill > >someone. No kidding. > > Doesn't happen all *that* often here (the US), either, through probably > a bit more than some more civilized places. I seem to recall reading > somewhere that most police officers in the US never fire their weapons > in their whole careers, except for practice. US law enforcement officers are, typically, drilled in NOT using their weapons as much as they are in using them. More law-enforcement officers are shot with their own weapons than with illegally-obtained firearms due to this reluctance to use lethal force. That's why non-lethal alternatives are looked-for with such vigor; the cops would be less reluctant to use them than their weapons. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:17:14 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words > the angel of Rape, the >> angel torture, > >I presume you're talking about an angel who actually promotes Rape. I >don't see how it can possibly be justified. Even David, who is by far the >scariest of the Archangels, would be unlikely to support the idea. > >Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. Okay, be forewarned. I do not approve of inflicting selfish acts on another person. However, I could see how an angel might. I think that it would have to be an Elohim for starters. This is one of those ends justifies the means issues. The goal isn't to leave a tattered shell, but to create a person more receptive to Heaven's light. This is like the issue of the person that is too good to leave, but too bad to stay. You've forced yourself into this sort of deadlock with another person. While some people can be led out of this relationship with the facts or a better offfer, some people need a harsher reason. Even a Cherub who saw his attuned in such a situation might go a bit nuts to get the attuned out of it; his actions a little on the rash side. However, I don't think that the Angel of Rape would just be about the act itself. I think that he would also include the counselling that follows, and possibly the aid programs. I don't know how many of you are in/have been in college lately, but anymore it seems that they tell all the girls in attendance to expect to be date-raped. This bothers me. It's no longer an "if", but a "when". Part of me would like to think that a merciful soul was responsible than someone getting their jollies from the pain they inflict. Enough rant. Let me conclude with this: I think that the idea of saying that there can't be an angel/demon of "?" is a little on the ludicrous side. We tend to look at Celestial society as a sociological extension of our own. We tend to forget that they are watching out for us. A sheep may not like what a shepherd is doing, but how often do they know why the shepherd is doing it? Armand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:16:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: IN> Upsetting Dominic >"I shall of course be adding assault to your long list of charges..." Ways to upset a tria w/o getting outcast (Coming from a Malakim of Eli) 1)stare at the weakest looking one and grin madly. When he asks what you're grinning about - "Heheheh...You're an improvised weapon +6...hehehe" 2)Let the Seraph confirm #1 3)Refuse to take them at their word. Ask for ID. No, celestial form isn't good enough - anyone can take celestial. Even if he's in his evil snake form, demand that the Seraph back up his super polygraph ("Oh yeah...Well I think you failed that resonance roll when you first came in...I think you're flying blind...I know what you're thinking - was my failure check digit a five or a six? Well are ya feelin' lucky, punk? Well, are ya?") 4) Make good friends with another servitor of Dominic. Totally brown nose the bastard (best call would be the Cherub - she/he/it shouldn't be able to tell why you're doing it). If they convict you, then say that she/he/it was your demonic contact - look how their evil powers made you suck up to them! (Bitterness - the power tool of angry deserted servants of Creation everywhere). Its okay - she/he/it works for Dominic, they deserve hell. 5)Refuse to be a pain in the ass. This works great when they come back with all new roles ("That's right - I can issue search warrents [like this one], he has the right to shoot people [like you], and he's already wanted for murder. So do what we say.) so that you can't legitly ask them to leave. Nothing annoys them like a servant of Eli who congratulates them on doing SUCH A FINE JOB!! That's all for now...i realize quality is low and I'm sorry...its early and I can't sleep. Enosh Malakim of Creation In service to Caffine (yes, he Is an Archangel. Take my word) Card-carrying MiVDC, Founding member of the KANCIP (Keep Acid Numinous Corpus Insanly Powerful) Coaltion ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 13:21:49 -0400 From: John Karakash - LUCENT ASCC Subject: Re: IN> num.corp. question Kevin Walsh wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 01:02:29PM +0100, Sam Kington wrote: > > Well, the Numinous Corpus songs *are* unbalanced to some extent. Just a > > thought - unlike claws, wings, hooves etc. which you turn on for the > > duration of the song (and can turn off and on at will), acid is very > > much a one-shot thing. You could argue that once you've spat acid at > > someone, the song ends - although this is probably making it too weak. > > Or you could argue that singing NC: Acid causes you to grow poison glands > in the inside of your mouth, which is how I interpret it. It was meant to be a continuing thing (which makes Acid far too powerful) and was errata-ed so that it gives a bonus to Power only and none to Accuracy. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:24:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words For those few of us who serve the Angel of Self-Inflicted Pain, and have thus read all six of Frank Herbert's Dune books, how about the Angel of the Golden Path? That's your basic really crappy job...I mean, being the actual God Emperor is not that hot an existance either (despite the job title) but being tied to that concept? Forever? gah...the only perk being Frank Herbert is up there in Heaven to give you advice... Enosh Malakim of Creation In Service to Caffiene (yes, He is an Archangel. Take my word.) Card carrying MiVDC, Founding member of the KANCIP coalition ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:41:16 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions >> Of course, most of the people lusting after good ol' Leo are pre pubescent >> girls; maybe Andrealphus is downsizing. >> > >I hate to disgust anybody.... but Andrealphus (in my view) doesn't >discriminate based on age... the object of Lust can be absolutely >*any* age. In other words, yes that sixth grade teacher who "fell >in love" with the thirteen year old student belongs to Andre. In >all the joking about Andre being the DP of Lust (and its implicit >silliness), we seem to forget that Andre is a *DP*, and is, by >definition, *EVIL*. It's not the idea that Andre is after children. That's not what I was meaning. I was more concerned with the idea that a DP who looks like a teeny bopper idol is going to catch mostly teeny boppers. Then if you factor in the idea that most children of that age range aren't experiencing any homosexual tendencies, you'll see that such an Andre is cutting out a good portion of the market share. I'm not against the idea of Andre tacking a number of children to his trophy wall, but I think that he might want an adult or two. Hey, maybe I misread the guy... >Nope. Neither Jack nor Kevin are androgynous enough. Jaye Davidson >(Ra from "Stargate" and Dill from "The Crying Game") would be the >best, I think. Or perhaps even Tim Curry (Dr. Frank N. Furter from >"Rocky Horror Picture Show"). > >Thomas Davidson The Kevin angle was from the view of him not being the "object" of lust, but the obtainer. "What's your pleasure Mr. Jones?" I do like the androgynous angle though. Kinda reminiscent of Desire from the Sandman series. S/he's the Endlesses sister/brother (that's how they refer to him/her) Which makes me think. Again, I promote the purveyor of idea and not the object of. How about going with a woman. The image that comes to mind is Tilda Swinton in "Orlando". Howver, I don't think that she has quite the panache to pull off Andre. I would recommend Isabella Rosellini. The accent alone would make it worthwhile. However, have her dress as a man, cross-dressing if you will. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:43:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic one addition or so at the end of post On Fri, 1 May 1998, Titus 3 11 wrote: > >"I shall of course be adding assault to your long list of charges..." > Ways to upset a tria w/o getting outcast > (Coming from a Malakim of Eli) > 1)stare at the weakest looking one and grin madly. When he asks what > you're grinning about - "Heheheh...You're an improvised weapon > +6...hehehe" > 2)Let the Seraph confirm #1 > 3)Refuse to take them at their word. Ask for ID. No, celestial form > isn't good enough - anyone can take celestial. Even if he's in his evil > snake form, demand that the Seraph back up his super polygraph ("Oh > yeah...Well I think you failed that resonance roll when you first came > in...I think you're flying blind...I know what you're thinking - was my > failure check digit a five or a six? Well are ya feelin' lucky, punk? > Well, are ya?") > 4) Make good friends with another servitor of Dominic. Totally brown > nose the bastard (best call would be the Cherub - she/he/it shouldn't be > able to tell why you're doing it). If they convict you, then say that > she/he/it was your demonic contact - look how their evil powers made you > suck up to them! (Bitterness - the power tool of angry deserted servants > of Creation everywhere). Its okay - she/he/it works for Dominic, they > deserve hell. > 5)Refuse to be a pain in the ass. This works great when they come back > with all new roles ("That's right - I can issue search warrents [like this > one], he has the right to shoot people [like you], and he's already wanted > for murder. So do what we say.) so that you can't legitly ask them to > leave. Nothing annoys them like a servant of Eli who congratulates them > on doing SUCH A FINE JOB!! > That's all for now...i realize quality is low and I'm sorry...its early > and I can't sleep. Take them out to dinner. Bribe the waiter to ask the seraph whether she/he/it is a poisinous snake, or a constrictor. Really bored? Really hate Dominic and Company? Do Something Bad - a minor bad, but enough to get caught. Set up evidence and witnesses that indicate that you did something worse then you did -much worse (just celestial circumstantial evidence). Watch the triad jump on it, punish you, and get dissonance. (this trick won't affect a good, level-headed triad that thinks clearly before acting - be sure to make the worse thing so bad it ruins judgement). Insist on starting every sentance with the phrase "Smeep!" With exuberance! Offer drinks. Transub it. Offer them chairs. Transub the chairs. Dance. They hate that. > Enosh > Malakim of Creation > In service to Caffine (yes, he Is an Archangel. Take my word) > Card-carrying MiVDC, Founding member of the KANCIP (Keep Acid Numinous > Corpus Insanly Powerful) Coaltion > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 19:03:01 +0000 (GMT) From: "The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather" Subject: IN> Npcs Due to my characters not trusting the demons in Austin, it looks like a fight is going to begin. sooooo. it must be time to bring in my newest npc angel. Bob. Malakim of Eli in service to Novalis. just as the fight is about to begin, a handsome young man walks in with a punnet of Loganberries and a pineapple. now the fun begins. incidently. what are loganberries? Starsurfer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:01:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic Titus 3 11 wrote: > Really bored? Really hate Dominic and Company? ... Dominic vs. the Church of the Sub-Genius. Archangel Bob! Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:42:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic At 12:16 PM -0500 5/1/98, Titus 3 11 wrote: >>"I shall of course be adding assault to your long list of charges..." >Ways to upset a tria w/o getting outcast >3)Refuse to take them at their word. Ask for ID. No, celestial form >isn't good enough - anyone can take celestial. Actually, that's not accurate -- if you see someone celestial in the corporeal realm, you *know* what they are. Unless they're something you've never seen before. ("What's that??" "Um. A newly redeemed Bright Lilim. Don't let her bother you, fondling those black wings...") Princes might be exceptions. They certainly manifest as "human(oid)" in Hell. > Even if he's in his evil >snake form, demand that the Seraph back up his super polygraph ("Oh >yeah...Well I think you failed that resonance roll when you first came >in...I think you're flying blind...I know what you're thinking - was my >failure check digit a five or a six? Well are ya feelin' lucky, punk? >Well, are ya?") Just remember: a Seraph of Judgment adds his Celestial Forces to his Perception when invoking his resonance. Yes, this *does* boost check digit. Yes, he *can* shake your hand or touch you on the shoulder to boost his CD higher still. Yes, he *can* tell what you had for breakfast the first time you ate corporeal form, and yes, he will probably disapprove. I ADORE Seraphim of Judgment, really I do. >4)[...] If they convict you, then say that >she/he/it was your demonic contact - look how their evil powers made you >suck up to them! See above for how Seraphim of Judgment can really put a crimp in any tactic that involves falsehood. (Until they roll that 666!) >(Bitterness - the power tool of angry deserted servants >of Creation everywhere). Its okay - she/he/it works for Dominic, they >deserve hell. You know, Dominic is hostile to Eli, but not vice versa... >5)Refuse to be a pain in the ass. This works great when they come back >with all new roles ("That's right - I can issue search warrents [like this >one], he has the right to shoot people [like you], and he's already wanted >for murder. So do what we say.) so that you can't legitly ask them to >leave. Nothing annoys them like a servant of Eli who congratulates them >on doing SUCH A FINE JOB!! The other tactic is to tell them everything. All the truth. Anything they want to know. In detail. Excruciating detail. Including the sex scenes. Especially useful if you have a virgin Seraph. (Though I hear they've been de-virgining them with Mercurians and Elohim of Judgment, to take care of exactly this.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:44:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> Npcs My favorite "Improvised weapons" are 1)a piece of clothing and then 2)the Mother persons arm (that's why I have the clothing - to cut off the arm). It's grisly, and consistently ruins the clothes that are involved. And I sometimes can't get people out of shock in any decent amount of time. If I intend to take prisners, my mighty Pipe is in one hand and my Book of the Subgenius in the other. Bob will show the way. "To succeed in the path of oneness, one must ask - what is the sound of one random object being used as a +d6 power weapon?" Rabbi Ibbar, Self - defense guru to the stars! a role of Enosh Malakim of Eli In Service to David Card-carring MiVDC, Founding member of the KANCIP coalition On Fri, 1 May 1998, The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather wrote: > Due to my characters not trusting the demons in Austin, it looks like a fight is going to begin. > > sooooo. it must be time to bring in my newest npc angel. > > Bob. Malakim of Eli in service to Novalis. > > just as the fight is about to begin, a handsome young man walks in with a punnet of Loganberries and a pineapple. > > now the fun begins. > > > > incidently. what are loganberries? > > > Starsurfer > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:42:04 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words >I don't know how many of you are in/have been in college lately, but >anymore it seems that they tell all the girls in attendance to expect to be >date-raped. This bothers me. It's no longer an "if", but a "when". Part >of me would like to think that a merciful soul was responsible than someone >getting their jollies from the pain they inflict. Ack! Somebody call the Angel of Camile Paglia! - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:20:23 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words Kevin replied >On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 11:01:27PM +0900, Simon Hailes wrote: >> >- >others that come to mine are the demon of Love, > >There are specific problems with the Demon of Love, such as Andrealphus' >enmity, but if I were to posit a Superior, I'd go for Kronos, Kobal or >possibly Malphas (he'd have an inherent dislike of the idea, but is >certainly devious enough to think of amusing ways in which to cause >trouble with it). > I agree. I'd think that the only viable demon of Love would be one of self-love, ie, The Demon of Narcissism. Love is a dirty word in the Dark Celestial Tongue. > the angel of Rape, the >> angel torture, > >I presume you're talking about an angel who actually promotes Rape. I >don't see how it can possibly be justified. Even David, who is by far the >scariest of the Archangels, would be unlikely to support the idea. > Agreed again. Now an Angel of Rape Crisis Centres, an Angel of Rape Prevention, an Angel of Children Born of Rape, That I *can* see. If rape promotion *was* implied as an angelic Word, gimme a ticket to Limbo. Heaven stinks. >Torture is dodgy, but potentially justifiable. Only potentially, of >course. > I prefer 'Interrogation'. >>andf the demon of Mercy. > >That is by far the most plausible of the examples you were giving, and >could be interpreted in a _lot_ of different ways. (Factions, Fate, Dark >Humour, Death, and that's just off the top of my head.) > >Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. >- -- > "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times >wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, >at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a >pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." > - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:46:35 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Abortion in IN Simon Hailes writes: >We seem to all be forgetting that A) heaven is liberalized and B) Angels, >especially Malakim, are not adverse to murder. A) To an extent. The exact degree that it is liberalized will vary from GM to GM of course. B) Not really murder, but execution. Consequently, you should generally have first committed a crime so great so as to warrant it. O.K. so Malakim are less forgiving than most, but basically, the agents of Heaven are unlikely to kill you unless you've _done wrong_. Remember that the good guys are not supposed to be fiddling around in human affairs too much. That is the Word of God. The angels as I see it should be keeping low profiles; they are far less overt than infernals. The main reason angels exist on earth in my game is to thwart the machinations of the diabolicals who of course couldn't give a rat's ass about God's Laws. > Now it does seem hard to >justify the murder of a foetus on charges of corruption, but what about >servitors of Yves, what if having a baby at seaid stage of life will draw >said person to their fate, Well, as can be seen from the discussion so far, there are differing opinions on when the soul enters the body. Therefore, if you place it at birth, for example, the abortion is not murder. My response to your above example would be that Yves would send a servitor with the task of steering that mother away from that particular conception *in the first place*. This might be true of a woman who was fated to die, say, in childbirth. Especially if the child also had a very Dark Fate. Preventative medicine. Another point here would be that if the forces that constitute a human soul do not adhere to it's mortal form straight away, then this gives ample time for a Prince to squeeze a demon into this 'vessel'. Angels concerned with conception should notice this, and in this instance - where the corporeal form of a soul has been 'stolen' - an abortion might be justified by Heaven because it is nothing but an incarnate demon that you are disposing of. Presumably the original displaced soul will be reassigned. (This is one of the *very* rare circumstances in which I personally could see Heaven endorsing abortion. To me it offends my concept of the place.) > the tv talk shows and soapies are filled with >broken women who gave birth at a young age, then had they're lifestyles >changed, until they spiralled away in to mediocrity, and what about >post-natal depression, a servitor of yves may believe it better for a >mother to abort a foetus now, then kill it and herself later in the grips >of this affliction. Well, the servitor might, but that IMHO, would be a dangerous mindset to acquire if they wished to remain in Heaven. In this instance I would view Yves' servitors as not doing their jobs properly. Such an angel should be actively trying to help such a woman come to terms with her trauma; perhaps in a role as a post-natal depression counsellor, for example. In any case, they should be trying to help alleviate the situation rather than resorting to the methods you describe. Even if it is found that the child is best removed from the parent, and perhaps found a loving family elsewhere this would still be preferable; the child would still have a chance. >Oh yeah, Jordi would not be fussed with it, anything that stops the human >race growing is a-okay to him. > Well, yep, can't argue here. After all, many of his subjects *eat* their offspring. :-O - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:51:07 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Armand wrote: > How about going with a woman. The image that comes to mind is Tilda > Swinton in "Orlando". Howver, I don't think that she has quite the panache > to pull off Andre. I would recommend Isabella Rosellini. The accent alone > would make it worthwhile. However, have her dress as a man, cross-dressing > if you will. Remeber that Andy - as well as the other Supes - have multiple vessels. Why not choose (at least) one male and one female for him? Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:46:20 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions >>Nope. Neither Jack nor Kevin are androgynous enough. Jaye Davidson >>(Ra from "Stargate" and Dill from "The Crying Game") would be the >>best, I think. Or perhaps even Tim Curry (Dr. Frank N. Furter from >>"Rocky Horror Picture Show"). >> >>Thomas Davidson > >The Kevin angle was from the view of him not being the "object" of lust, >but the obtainer. "What's your pleasure Mr. Jones?" > >I do like the androgynous angle though. Kinda reminiscent of Desire from >the Sandman series. S/he's the Endlesses sister/brother (that's how they >refer to him/her) Which makes me think. Again, I promote the purveyor of >idea and not the object of. How about Andre being played by Al Fraken in his "Pat" SNL charcter? - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:55:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic > >3)Refuse to take them at their word. Ask for ID. No, celestial form > >isn't good enough - anyone can take celestial. > > Actually, that's not accurate -- if you see someone celestial in > the corporeal realm, you *know* what they are. Unless they're > something you've never seen before. ("What's that??" "Um. A newly > redeemed Bright Lilim. Don't let her bother you, fondling those > black wings...") Hey. HEY! I resemble that remark! *fondle* *fondle* *fondle* - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:59:11 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Identifying ensouled beings Titus 3 11 wrote: > >Okay, i 'm shootin' from the hip here, I haven't slept for a few days (see >one of my previous posts about being willing to take a geas for a good >coffee...I wasn't being "cute") so I really don't feel up to >double-checking the good ol' IN text - feel free to mock me w/o mercy for >inaccurate details...anyway, here's what I have to say to Neel. > >Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >> Kevin Walsh wrote: >> >Whether they have one waking is irrelevant since to the best of anyone's >> >knowledge only Blandine and Beleth can access waking dreamscapes. Now if >> >you want to approach one of them and ask them if they could check out a >> >certain foetus to see if it has a dreamscape and therefore a soul, you can >> >be my guest. >> >> Er, no -- when you enter the vale of dreams, you are in a place where >> all the dreamscapes of every person, waking or sleeping, are visible. >> You can't *enter* the dreamscape of a waking person, but there's >> certainly nothing stopping you from watching it from the outside. > > >I thought that dreams appeared as globes or similiar shapes - silvery and >such...not peeping glasses into the persons dreams...if you are correct, >then I will be spending a lot more time in the Marches gathering dirty >dirt on folks... > From _The Marches_: The Vale contains the dreamscapes of sleeping mortals. To outsiders like the celestials, they appear in an infinite variety of forms, often in some kind of reflective or crystalline form: a mirror, crystal, pool of water or floating iridescent bubble of some kind suspended in the mists of the Vale. Anyone near the dreamscape can look into it and see images of the dream going on within. Many of the dreamscapes belong to mortals who are awake. These dreamscapes are like shadowy versions of the dreamworlds of sleeping humans. They are "off limits" to anyone, due to the influence of the mortal's conscious mind. Occasionally the dreamscape of an awake human will show flickers of thoughts and daydreams. It is believed that Beleth and Blandine can access the dreams of conscious humans, but no other celestial or spirit has such power. (I got this off the IN webpage, so I don't have a page number. Sorry.) You see flickery images in a waking dreamscape; I think the amount of useful info you can get is very GM-dependent even if you stipulate the GM follows canon. (I'd be lenient, myself, but then I allow the Song of Symphony from the LR to starting PCs -- I think that supernatural beings should have supernatural sources of information.) >> >> The point is that you don't need to enter the dreamscape; you just >> need to find it -- and this means doesn't matter whether the person >> is awake or asleep. And all that takes is a Cherub or a Song of >> Attraction. > > A Cherub? I can see it - "Umm, Mike? Buddy? would you please attune to >this fetus? So I can find its dreams?" Beyond getting in physical >contact! Song of Attraction - does that work across plains of existance? > A bit later it says: Celestials who enter the Marches on their own appear at the base of the tower they are aligned with. To find a specific dreamscape in the Vale requires the celestial to search for it. Attunements and Songs that will locate a subject in the corporeal realm will also locate his dreamscape. So yes, you can "get a fix" in the corporeal world and then use a Song of Attraction or the Cherub resonance to find the dreamscape in the ethereal realm. And the dreamscape is there regardless of whether or not you are awake, so it should be possible to determine whether or not a fetus has a soul yet or not. As for contact, an angel could take celestial form and then it can get close enough to attune without being blocked by barriers of flesh. So the minimum character point cost to find out if someone has a human soul are: 0 for Shedim (who can just try to do a possession). 1 for Cherubim and Djinn (for 1 level in the Song of Dreams) 2 for everyone else (for 1 level in the Songs of Attraction and Dreams) This is low enough that the answer should probably be common knowledge among celestials. Though this raises an interesting question...can Shedim possess the undead in canon? - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:08:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic On Fri, 1 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 12:16 PM -0500 5/1/98, Titus 3 11 wrote: > >>"I shall of course be adding assault to your long list of charges..." > >Ways to upset a tria w/o getting outcast > > >3)Refuse to take them at their word. Ask for ID. No, celestial form > >isn't good enough - anyone can take celestial. > > Actually, that's not accurate -- if you see someone celestial in > the corporeal realm, you *know* what they are. Unless they're > something you've never seen before. ("What's that??" "Um. A newly > redeemed Bright Lilim. Don't let her bother you, fondling those > black wings...") Ohh, i belive that they are the choir that they say they are ( I suppose). I just don't have to believe that they are what they say they are. ("A triad? I don't recognize you guys. Maybe you're those Dominic groupies I 've heard so much about. You can't fool me! > > Princes might be exceptions. They certainly manifest as "human(oid)" > in Hell. Okay, append the opening statment to read "w/o being outcast and without involving Demon Princes. Anyone using these ideas while dealing with a demon prince, and archangel, god, lucifer, or an NPC that really matters is obviously a raving Ofanite and should just be moving very fast away and laughing as the triad fails to catch up. > > > Even if he's in his evil > >snake form, demand that the Seraph back up his super polygraph ("Oh > >yeah...Well I think you failed that resonance roll when you first came > >in...I think you're flying blind...I know what you're thinking - was my > >failure check digit a five or a six? Well are ya feelin' lucky, punk? > >Well, are ya?") > Just remember: a Seraph of Judgment adds his Celestial Forces to > his Perception when invoking his resonance. Yes, this *does* boost > check digit. Yes, he *can* shake your hand or touch you on the shoulder > to boost his CD higher still. Yes, he *can* tell what you had for > breakfast the first time you ate corporeal form, and yes, he will > probably disapprove. Well, then I guess blatant grossness will do (the first breakfast was...euuhhh...snakes...{seraph at this point starts muttering things like "f**king Enosh I hate him."}) And granted, they can nail the truth almost every time. All I'm saying (and saying loudly) is that I want validation that he succedded. Pretending to be terribly paranoid makes this easier. > > I ADORE Seraphim of Judgment, really I do. i adore seraphim the way every cartoon mouse loves every cartoon cat. > > >4)[...] If they convict you, then say that > >she/he/it was your demonic contact - look how their evil powers made you > >suck up to them! > > See above for how Seraphim of Judgment can really put a crimp in > any tactic that involves falsehood. (Until they roll that 666!) mmmmmm...but I REALLY THINK that he made me do it...he just didn't know that he made me do it...ummmm...I think i'll surrender to the nice servitors of judgement nowimsorry. > >(Bitterness - the power tool of angry deserted servants > >of Creation everywhere). Its okay - she/he/it works for Dominic, they > >deserve hell. > > You know, Dominic is hostile to Eli, but not vice versa... I know, but I like to carry that torch for Eli. If we meet up again I'm hoping to become Angel of Freedom. Or something. Maybe just Angel of Freedom from that (should-be) God-damned Heavenly Inquisition. > > >5)Refuse to be a pain in the ass. This works great when they come back > >with all new roles ("That's right - I can issue search warrents [like this > >one], he has the right to shoot people [like you], and he's already wanted > >for murder. So do what we say.) so that you can't legitly ask them to > >leave. Nothing annoys them like a servant of Eli who congratulates them > >on doing SUCH A FINE JOB!! > > The other tactic is to tell them everything. All the truth. Anything > they want to know. In detail. Excruciating detail. Including the sex > scenes. Especially useful if you have a virgin Seraph. (Though I hear > they've been de-virgining them with Mercurians and Elohim of Judgment, > to take care of exactly this.) The wonderful thing is, it makes perfect sense for a servant of Eli to have sex after almost anything(well, before,after, or during) (IMHO, they do need to be lovers, not seducers though. Leaving a partner feeling used is for Andre, leaving a partner feeling euphoric makes Novalis' job easier!) so no matter what the triad asks about the phrase "...and then we got naked.." and its explicit companions will come up. Offer to show them! (Song of light) > > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > With essence to burn, there's lots more fun - use song of light to paint little illusions, like ahuman whistleing. Stop when asked, and start again a few minutes later. Before you start, think of a legit reason to do the hologram - questions like "are you doing that to bug me?" then tune negative. randomly spend esence. If they think you may be trying to run, twitch and spend apoint. Watch them draw weapons! This one will probably be to outlandish for most people, but here it goes - - be an inargueably awesome fount of angelic goodness. By Doms standards. Scary, huh? Enosh Malakim of Creation In service to Caffiene (yes He is an Archangel. take my word). card-carrying MiVDC, Founding member of the KANCIP ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #743 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.