From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 4 18:06:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA30326 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 18:06:22 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA19316 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 4 May 1998 18:01:53 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:01:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199805042301.SAA19316@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #751 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 751 In this digest: Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic Re: IN> Superiors and (mutable?) Celestial form Re: IN> IN: LARP Re: IN> Uriel's next assignment Re: IN> A newbie, a plot point, and a question (all in one!) Re: IN> IN: LARP Re: IN> IN: LARP Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic Re: IN> Gnosticism Re: IN> IN: LARP Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> A newbie, a plot point, and a question (all in one!) Re: IN> Stray Thought... Re: IN> More (but different) random strangeness Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> Stray Thought... Re: IN> Seraphim and the TRUTH. (help!) Re: IN> IN: LARP Re: IN> Uriel's next assignment Re: IN> A newbie, a plot point, and a question (all in one!) Re: IN> IN: LARP Re: IN> Uriel's next assignment Re: IN> Uriel's next assignment Re: IN> A newbie, a plot point, and a question (all in one!) Re: IN> IN: LARP Re: IN> Uriel's next assignment Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:07:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic At 7:31 PM -0500 5/1/98, Titus 3 11 wrote: >(As a side note, I am currently helping run my frat's initiation, which >involves staying up for about three days for everyone involved. [...] >> >People always look at me funny when my malakim surrenders. They mention >> >oaths and such - well, that whole not allowing evil to live one is most >> >important, and the idea of slaying me is evil, thus if I surrender and >> >kill the idea of slaying me, that idea being evil, I've done well. >> >Yes I know Im going to Hell. Probably soon. Don't poke fun at the poor >> >deluded Malakim, all right? >> >> Well, if you surrender to *Hellish* forces -- demons and Hellsworn and >> Princes and such -- you get dissonance from that, too. ><>you sane people. >You see, I'm not surrendering TO them... they are my weapon (see! See how >i fight creativly! ) to destroy the EVIL that is the idea to kill me - a >far greater evil then they. So when I surrender to them, I am actually, >really, weilding a great big bloody sword of reaping and killing and >cutting... >andhurting >andstuff... Only if you really do fry them afterwards. Otherwise, you make a nice discordant Malakite. >> Heh heh heh. Sneaky fellow, Eli. And obnoxious. And very good at >> changing the subject if you *do* catch up with him. >Speaking of which, what are your feelings on the recent (anything other >then turning my vessel into a grease spot [its a cheap discord I want. >When killed, the vessel -Always- turns into a grease spot....hehehehe] I think you need sleep. >>Deluded Malakim of Creation... Yeah, that's gonna be a fun trial... > >"Trial? Isn't this the set of Full House? Divine Wraith and all?" Hey, Em, we gots a Malakite of Kobal here! >> >>"You know, Most Holy, it would just be easier to kill this vessel and >> >>finish the interrogation upstairs." "I do see the merit in that statement, >> >>Virtue. Shall we make a vote of it, Guardian?" >> >> >> >That would be why I only spend three points on my vessels. Ever. They >> >get....icked...often. >> >> Well, when you do things like *THAT* to *triads*, who are not created >> with senses of humor (though some learn)... What do you expect. >> >> "Most Holy, I vote kill his vessel." "I concur." "That makes three of >> us." >(followed by the fastest, most desperate summoning of Eli ever seen. If >that fails, try Kobal. Yes I know technically that that is bad...what the >heck?) The Cherub tries to shake Eli's hand. The Malakite vanishs upstairs to get help. And the Seraph smiles. "Ah, Eli. Thank you for attending your insane servitor. And now that you're here, would you mind answering a few questions?" Of course, Creationers have managed to summon Kobal before, in some games... Never roll a 666... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:22:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superiors and (mutable?) Celestial form At 6:45 PM -0700 5/1/98, Sean McCarthy wrote: > I also postulate, for my >campaign, that within the Savannah, Jordi's power allows his angels to >assume an animal Celestial form. I have always figured that a celestial can appear as anything it wants to, in the celestial realm. But it is also, at the same time, in its true form. So, for instance, Jordan (Seraph of Judgment with a Good View) can appear as his vessel and at the same time he is a Seraph with tiger's-eye-stone scales and tawny-banded wings *and* a shining creature of light, etc. Gabriel is a beautiful woman *and* a gyroscope of flame and thensome. At the same time. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 16:38:55 -0400 From: "Mark McKenzie" Subject: Re: IN> IN: LARP Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > > I think one of the biggest problems would be disturbances to the Symphony. > A lot of problems can be solved with handsigns, as long as you've got some > imagination. (For example, the "Using Obfuscate sign" from Vampire > (crossing your arms over your chest) could mean "I'm in Celestial Form" or > something.) > > But how do you model something that is not seen, but sensed, through > walls, possibly hundreds of yards away? I guess you could have GM's > running around telling everyone that "There's been a disturbance over > there!" pointing towards the next room, but that would be quite > detrimental to the mood, I think. :) > Actually, there's a pretty good model inherent in "what happens in LARP combat", assuming that a non-combat system is in place. While the usual alteration of cannon re: range, duration, et al, would be required, simply detecting a noisy event would be less problematical in an IN setting than many other. To wit: The typical non-combat LARP encounter lasts several minutes, and occasionally much longer. Within the "game reality", the time elapsed may be only seconds. (A prime design goal for many LARP designers is "speeding up resolutions" - attempting to bring the "game time" and "mechanics times" closer together). The result of this is: a supposed 10 second combat actually takes 20 minutes to resolve. While the participants are doing so, non-participants wander by and "see it happening". This usually results in a rules kludge of some sort ("non-participants cannot join a combat in progress", etc.) However, these newcomers are often unbearably tempted to hang around and thump the winner if it appears that an ally is going to lose the current conflict. At least in an IN setting, there would be some internal logic in non-participants being "aware" of a conflict that theoretically concluded long before their arrival on the scene. Sort of an "if you (the player) detect a conflict, you (the PC) have heard the disturbance unless something specific in the conflict determines otherwise". - -- Mark McKenzie or someone like him markadv@kinekom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 15:39:34 -0500 From: Bob the Dancing Monkey Subject: Re: IN> Uriel's next assignment >Alisteir Crowly dated Sophia Green who later married Lovecraft. Chances >are Crowly knew Lovecraft. Some people belive that it was from Crowly >that Lovecraft got the idea for the Necronamicon, which might be a real >book that Crowly knew. > >-Jesse > The above statement reminds me of a recent article I read in Pyramid Online, in that Secret Societies and the occult have a marvelously incestuous quality to them - everything is connected very closely. Kenneth Hite calls this the 'Six Degrees of Francis Bacon' effect. Which brings me to something I've been thinking about - has anyone attempted to pull Illuminati resources into In Nomine? One interesting twist on the Secret Society concept is conspiracies being an attempt by certain mortals to wrest control of the Great War from the celestials. Of course, Malphas has had his finger in it for a long time... - -Drew [O] Drew Johnson - CLA - Office of Info Tech [O] x5-4885 - http://www.econ.umn.edu/~djohnson/ [O] djohnson@cla.umn.edu - ICQ: 10800645 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 16:42:58 -0400 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> A newbie, a plot point, and a question (all in one!) Alloni Kramer wrote: > So I was brainstorming, and I thought up an... odd idea which I thought I > would get people's opinion on. > > Distinctions. Is it possible to turn down a Distinction? Is it an actual > change in the character, or is it just a title? Is it possible for Demon > Princes to give angels Distinctions? I would guess that Kobal would have no problem giving an Angel a distinction. Especially if it were funny. I think that this is pretty funny, and just sick enough. Go for it. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:43:13 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> IN: LARP On Mon, 4 May 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > > > But how do you model something that is not seen, but sensed, > > through walls, possibly hundreds of yards away? > > Hnadbells come to mind. > > Or beepers. Good ideas! *thinking* As long as the walls aren't to thick. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:50:03 -0400 From: eswhanu@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> IN: LARP You people are thinking in too complicated terms... granted, what I was running what a vapor test of the rules, but it worked... Brian Ward On Mon, 4 May 1998 22:06:04 +0200 (DFT) Anders Gabrielsson writes: >I think one of the biggest problems would be disturbances to the >Symphony. >A lot of problems can be solved with handsigns, as long as you've got >some >imagination. (For example, the "Using Obfuscate sign" from Vampire >(crossing your arms over your chest) could mean "I'm in Celestial >Form" or >something.) > >But how do you model something that is not seen, but sensed, through >walls, possibly hundreds of yards away? I guess you could have GM's >running around telling everyone that "There's been a disturbance over >there!" pointing towards the next room, but that would be quite >detrimental to the mood, I think. :) > >Anders Gabrielsson >anders@stp.ling.uu.se >The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! >"I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:03:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic > >>Deluded Malakim of Creation... Yeah, that's gonna be a fun trial... > > > >"Trial? Isn't this the set of Full House? Divine Wraith and all?" > > Hey, Em, we gots a Malakite of Kobal here! I've had Kobal on the brain all day, because I listened to Being For the Benefit of Mr. Kite. All I can say is that he'd be amused, in new and ugly and very Kobalish ways. Kobal. With his very own Malakite. Hee hee hee. > Of course, Creationers have managed to summon Kobal before, in some > games... Never roll a 666... > What, Star? There was actual plot involved in that. Don't ask me what it was, as it certainly makes sense, but just not a lot of sense. Creationers are weird. It's amazing what they can do when they're trying not to do anything at all. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 17:04:51 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic >>(As a side note, I am currently helping run my frat's initiation, which >>involves staying up for about three days for everyone involved. [...] > >with a fraternity or sorority. Who, me, wimp? Why yes, and smile when >you say that.> Greeks scare me. Did you know that 85% of Congressmen are Greeks? - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 17:16:37 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Gnosticism >From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. >McBrayer) > >> "NK" == Neel Krishnaswami writes: >> "JFM" == jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) > > >NK> I'm doing basically doing exactly the opposite thing you are, with >NK> God as the full-bore screw-the-existentialists God of >NK> Abraham. Gnosticism is an infernal deceit of a particularly >NK> pernicious kind in my game (I can explain why if you are >NK> interested) > >Yes, I am quite interested. I've written this post assuming straight Christianity, but no offense intended to any gnostics on the list. For that matter, apologies to the Christians if I got the doctrine wrong. Okay, the standard line is that God is the creator of the physical world, and that he pronounced Creation to be good. C.S. Lewis once commented that people who want to eliminate comfort and art to make life and religion "more spiritual" run into the grave conceptual problem that God liked matter enough to create it. Further, human beings are in the unique position of being hybrid creatures that partake of both material and spiritual existence. This means that there are at least two distinct ways for the Pit to lure humans to Hell. The first (and perhaps more common) way is to get humans to deny their spiritual half and become animalistic. Anytime people cease to think they have fallen for an infernal trap. Andrealphus and Haagenti are probably the exemplars of this mode of damnation in IN. The other route to Hell is to get humans to deny their physical natures and become demonic. Pride, fanaticism, arrogance, contempt for others -- any time someone sets an idea or their own self-will above all else, including reality, they act in demonic fashion. I think Baal and Kobal seem to exemplify most spiritual evil in IN. (I'm using "demonic" in a more broad sense than usual, and I hope I'm not confusing my point.) Now let's loop back to gnosticism. Most flavors of gnosticism have as a basic tenet the idea that material creation is corrupt and evil, and that the spiritual universe is superior to it. (I'm going to ignore the whole structure of aeons, emanations and demiurges for the moment, even though that's the most useful stuff when actually writing stuff for a game.) According to the standard view, this doesn't hold water: man is physical and spiritual at the same time. A man can't beat his wife's body and really pray for the well-being of her soul at the same time. Saying otherwise is just rationalizing sin. It is certainly possible to beat her and mouth the words of a prayer, but that's just adding hypocrisy to the list of sins. IMHO, gnosticism is second only to Calvinism for its potential in generating warped philosophies for Habbalah. For example: There's a Habbalah in my own game that believes that the God of Heaven is the Demiurge, and that Lucifer is an Aeon sent to break mankind free of the Demiurge's chains. What Hell does only /looks/ like torment and evil; really humans (and the angels) are so depraved and lost to light that they have good and evil reversed. Only in the sight of the Demiurge is it a Punisher; in reality it is bringing blessings and joy. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 17:29:30 -0400 From: "Mark McKenzie" Subject: Re: IN> IN: LARP Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > > On Mon, 4 May 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > > Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > > > > > But how do you model something that is not seen, but sensed, > > > through walls, possibly hundreds of yards away? > > > > Hnadbells come to mind. > > > > Or beepers. > > Good ideas! *thinking* > Consider this carefully. 1) Not only do you "notify" players of disturbance (including those who potentially or innately failed to "notice" IC), you also annoy every non-player in earshot. 2) Bells, beepers or other "noisemakers" add a significant, and probably prohibitive, cost to the presentation of a LARP. 3) If there's a better "mood killer" than ringing bells everytime you start a conflict, I cannot think of what it might be. - -- Mark McKenzie or someone like him markadv@kinekom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 17:30:25 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Dominic >From: Anders Gabrielsson > >On Sun, 3 May 1998, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > >> (Michael himself is excused only because God Almighty came down and >> personally declared him innocent; you don't get evidence much more >> convincing than that.) > >Actually, God didn't declare Michael innocent, but said that without >Michael's pride and glory Heaven would loose (sp? I can never learn to >spell this word...). ("lose", to be defeated. "loose", not tight.) Well, if we take God to be necessarily good and all that, then it follows that He would not forgive someone who had sinned and not asked forgiveness of Him. So either: a) Michael was guilty, but repented of his sin and was forgiven by God, b) Michael was innocent, but Dominic had good reason to think he was guilty, or c) Michael was innocent, but Dominic wasn't. I think that if Michael was guilty, he would not be angry at Dominic; they are both seraphim and can't rationalize away the truth -- not without falling, anyway. Since I didn't want to do the "Dominic is a balseraph" thing, that left option b) for my game. But -- Dominic is what is technically known as a Big-Ass Seraph, and it's going to be kind of hard for him to get less than a "6" with the seraphic clue-scanner. So I thought about it some, and decided that it was all a lesson aimed by God at Dominic. Dominic is a really good guy: honest, pious, devoted, and humble -- too humble. Dominic's passions were too mild for an archangel's, his eyes too often on the ground to look up and see the Lord. God is glory beyond imagining, and He wants to see mankind and the angels radiant and powerful with the joy of the Lord. (There's an essay by C.S. Lewis called "The Weight of Glory" which I liked.) Michael is the most powerful of God's creations, with insight and power far beyond that even of other archangels, and he burns like a supernova with the reflected light of God. And Dominic fearfully remembered that Lucifer once shone like that, and mistaking glory for vainglory he accused Michael of the sin of pride. God came down and said that Michael's strength was His strength, that his splendour was His splendour. Dominic needed to see that brilliance and confidence are not vanity and willful pride, and Michael was God's instrument in that lesson. So: why does Michael go around calling Dominic and his crowd hyenas? He doesn't think that Dominic has learned his lesson. I think Michael likes the Gabriel style of divine judgement better, all swift and passionate and wrathful and loving. He thinks Dominic should be a lion or a dragon bringing the judgement of the Lord down on evildoers, and just plain does not understand Dominic's reserve and bureacratic formality. But just as Dominic erred, so too might Michael... - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:56:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A newbie, a plot point, and a question (all in one!) At 10:38 AM -0700 5/4/98, Alloni Kramer wrote: >Hi. My name is Alloni, and I'm about to start running an In Nomine game. Howdy! >So I was brainstorming, and I thought up an... odd idea which I thought I >would get people's opinion on. > >Distinctions. Is it possible to turn down a Distinction? Yes, it's implied to be such ("accepting is a political move"). >Is it an actual >change in the character, or is it just a title? It often grants abilities, so it's an actual change. >Is it possible for Demon >Princes to give angels Distinctions? Um. Hm. They can give them Rites. Um. If the angel says yes... >Kobal gets thwarted in a plot by a PC angel. Kobal gets angry. Kobal >gives the angel a Distinction, [...] You are twisted and sick and I like you. Even if he couldn't *change* the angel, even if the angel rejected the Distinction, all he has to do is have his demons use it, send the flyers to the Tethers he knows of, and generally spread it around. Hee! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:09:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Stray Thought... At 8:46 PM +1000 5/3/98, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: >G'day. > Got a question here that occured to me in the shower tonight (I >always do my creative thinking in the shower). > If a human possessed by a Kyrio/Shedim gains the advantages of a >vessel (no need to eat, immunity to poison etc), I don't think they're immune to poisons -- *disease*, yes, but if you take a poison, you're going to hurt, even if you're a celestial. (Mind you, we, personally, play that celestials have very robust metabolisms. It's really hard to get one drunk in our games...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:22:35 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> More (but different) random strangeness >On Sat, 2 May 1998, Titus 3 11 wrote: >> On Sat, 2 May 1998, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >> > On Sat, 2 May 1998, Titus 3 11 wrote: >> > >> > > For those REALLY BAD NPCs or PCs, give them a note of dissonace. Let the >> > > malakim (my favored choir) pick it up as an ignoble act (ie, that seraph >> > > lied) hmmm..he lied...he has dissonance (confirmation is good, but >> > > notreallyneeded). Kill said seraphs vessel. >> > >> > Why kill the vessel, just like that? >> Because the seraph (especially one of Dominic) isn't clean. And I think >> it is going to get worse. And as a malakim, I have the right (rite?) to >> do so. >> That's an IC explanation. OOC, it shows players to 1)avoid dissonance >> (the malakim really are fanatics) and 2) not to abuse powers (hopefully). >> And because I can't get to the celestial form. All I can say is, that if any PC in my games did that, even once, the very next triad would have a much tougher Seraph in it. Say, a certain Archangel...? (Heck, if someone suggested that, I'd make it be Time For Dominic To Check On His Servitors. Or perhaps Eli shows up and enlightens the Malakite with a stick instead.) IOW, celestials who IC rules-lawyer, will have run-ins with Superiors. Perhaps even the Princess of Nitpicking. - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:29:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dominic At 5:24 AM -0400 5/3/98, Doubting Eric wrote: >On Sun, 3 May 1998, Jesse wrote: > >> Anyway, does anyone run a game where Dominic is a good guy? It seems to me >> that he has been a victim of bad press, prehaps one of Micheal's saints >> works at SJG? Of course Heaven needs a police force, it lost one third of >> its populace in a rebellion. > >Yes, as a matter of fact. Maya's "Fiat Justitia" game (*), as near as I've >been able to tell, portrays Dominic in a /very/ good light. And then there's my occasional guest-appearances as Jordan, Seraph of Judgment, and it would seem that he's portrayed as sympathetic, and... Dominique can be very strict, but she's still an (Arch)angel, and therefore has the same instincts for selflessness and love as any other angel in Heaven. She's just very big on the *strict* love, the *tough* love. And rules. People without rules tend to Fall, according to Dominique... >(*): Blatant plug - http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html Anyway, Dominic may not be sympathetic, but that doesn't keep the Most Just One from being "good"... For some value of good. And some value of Pain In The Neck. O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:33:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Stray Thought... At 8:37 PM -0800 5/2/98, Armand wrote: >> If a human possessed by a Kyrio/Shedite gains the advantages of a >>vessel (no need to eat, immunity to poison etc), can this be negated by >>the possessing Celestial? Specifically, if a Shedite of Malphas (who >>completely kicks out the real owner of the body, just like a Kyrio) >>possesses you, can they chug-a-lug a bottle of Cerepax to cause an >>overdose? Or would they have to leave the body before the drug could >>begin to take effect? [...] >First of all, the Shedite would have to make a contest of wills check to see >if he can convince the host that drinking the Cerepax is a "good" idea. >Humans can resist the actions of Kyrios and Shedim. Especially this. Never forget that humans *can* blow all their Essence on something -- this includes a Will roll to resist a demon's resonance! Which doesn't help against Shedim of Malphas much, except for the initial takeover. >Of course, as in the case of the teleported TV, the GM can make a judgement >that doesn't follow canon in the hopes of making the story/plot more >important. Amen. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:43:29 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the TRUTH. (help!) At 2:33 PM -0500 5/3/98, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >It is Dissonant for a Seraph to lie. > >How does a Seraph know what the Truth is without a Resonance Roll? >How will a Resonance Roll help when the Truth is only revealed on CD >of 6? >Do the Seraphim just speak and see if they gain Dissonance or not? >I doubt it. >How do the Seraphim know what the Truth is? >It is Dissonant for a Seraph to lie, but can a Seraph avoid lying when >he cannot perceive Truth except on a CD of 6? The thing that makes Seraphim dissonant is not precisely lying, it is *denying* the Truth. If they are speaking what they believe to be truth, as best they can, then they are safe from dissonance even if they: 1: are mistaken or 2: get tongue-tangled and don't say what they meant to say (so long as they correct the wrong words ASAP). Same if they mangle a human language ("I would like fries with my diskdrive."). A Seraph becomes dissonant by striving to make himself believe what is Not. By attempting to make reality conform to what he wishes, in the face of what Is. By speaking, knowing, a lie. If a Seraph were, for instance, to see its beloved friend killed and in a frenzy of grief deny that Truth in its mind -- it could become dissonant without speaking a word. (Of course, that's a player call, so it's better for fiction than RP.) Even a Balseraph will not lie to you -- when he speaks lies, he utterly believes them... It's the mindset -- every time a Seraph lies, he's not just saying words that aren't true, he's forcing himself to pretend they're true, to deny That Which Is. Does that help? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 17:34:41 -0400 From: "Mark McKenzie" Subject: Re: IN> IN: LARP eswhanu@juno.com wrote: > > You people are thinking in too complicated terms... granted, what I was > running what a vapor test of the rules, but it worked... > It's important to think in such terms, as SJG is planning to eventually release a commercial IN-LARP product (IIRC). One key design feature of such a product is that it be scalable - it should be just as workable in a 12 person game at your house as it is in a 50 person game in a cafe or a 400 person game at a convention. If it doesn't scale, it has some underlying problems. Making a game scalable is inherently complex - I was involved in this exact proceedure for several years, and learned the hard way (things that work brilliantly for 20 people ofter turn ugly when applied to 200 or 300). But, from your description, you're on the right track. - -- Mark McKenzie or someone like him markadv@kinekom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:34:08 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Uriel's next assignment On Mon, 4 May 1998, Bob the Dancing Monkey wrote: > Which brings me to something I've been thinking about - has anyone > attempted to pull Illuminati resources into In Nomine? One interesting > twist on the Secret Society concept is conspiracies being an attempt by > certain mortals to wrest control of the Great War from the celestials. Of > course, Malphas has had his finger in it for a long time... I've thought about doing this with Sorcerers, but I haven't gotten around to doing anything concrete yet. I've got some ideas for an occult society in my IN version of Uppsala... founded by that Saminga Renegade I've mentioned before. ;) Anders Gabrielsson, Angel of [SNIP]ping anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:48:50 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> A newbie, a plot point, and a question (all in one!) On Mon, 4 May 1998, Andrew Frades wrote: > Alloni Kramer wrote: > > > So I was brainstorming, and I thought up an... odd idea which I thought I > > would get people's opinion on. > > > > Distinctions. Is it possible to turn down a Distinction? Is it an actual > > change in the character, or is it just a title? Is it possible for Demon > > Princes to give angels Distinctions? > > I would guess that Kobal would have no problem giving an Angel a distinction. > Especially if it were funny. I think that this is pretty funny, and just sick > enough. Go for it. Asmodeus would not be amused though, I think. And who knows what Lucifer will think of it... ;) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:17:38 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> IN: LARP In a message dated 5/4/98 12:16:29 PM, anders@strindberg.ling.uu.se writes: >But how do you model something that is not seen, but sensed, through >walls, possibly hundreds of yards away? I guess you could have GM's >running around telling everyone that "There's been a disturbance over >there!" pointing towards the next room, but that would be quite >detrimental to the mood, I think. :) Handbells. Or whistles. Or Airhorns. (for increasing levels of disturbance...) That'll teach 'em to kill that poor human. Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:18:52 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Uriel's next assignment In a message dated 5/4/98 12:09:10 PM, zenith@umich.edu writes: (I misspelled...) >> IMC, the answers are yes, yes, and ask Alisteir Crowly, he's around here >> somewhere... > >Aleister Crowley Sorry. Wandering 'e'. Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:29:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> Uriel's next assignment On Mon, 4 May 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > > > In general I don't think Lovecraft's world and In Nomine are > > compatible, because HPL's fiction depends on a mechanistic, godless > > universe (ours) for its impact. So I don't intend to do any sort of > > IN/CoC crossovers. No munchkinful Lucifer-vs.-Nyarlathotep > > square-offs. > > No? Not even a little one? But having Nyarlathotep running around in > your game doing utterly random things would be fun! Fun, I say! FUN! (What happened to the tether? I don't know sir - I left it with this nice Egyptian fellow for a moment and...) > > (Laurence stands in the Dreamlands, staring at Yog-Sothoth. He's quiet > for a long time, holding his sword. Finally, he says, "You remember the > Purity Crusade? Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea after all.") > > Actually, I put the Lovecraftian Mythos as 'A Good Reason Not To Walk > Out Into The Far Marches'. You really don't know what's out there, and > this is very possibly some of it. I believe that, in the Marches, if > Human Beings have thought of it and gone so far as to popularize it to > nearly mainstream for some largish (over 1 million) part of the > population, then it is probably crawling around out there. It doesn't > make it any more Real in the Amber sense, but don't be surprised to hear > tales of lost Purity Malakim just now staggering in from the Marches about > their war buddies getting eaten by the Goat of a Thousand Young while > Elvis stood to one side and sang "Hound Dog" and an away team beamed back > to the Enterprise. > > - Em. Happy Fun Balseraph! Zoinks! > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:31:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> A newbie, a plot point, and a question (all in one!) On Mon, 4 May 1998, Alloni Kramer wrote: > > Hi. My name is Alloni, and I'm about to start running an In Nomine game. > > (Cries of, "Hi Alloni!") > > So I was brainstorming, and I thought up an... odd idea which I thought I > would get people's opinion on. > > Distinctions. Is it possible to turn down a Distinction? Is it an actual > change in the character, or is it just a title? Is it possible for Demon > Princes to give angels Distinctions? > > My idea: > > Kobal gets thwarted in a plot by a PC angel. Kobal gets angry. Kobal > gives the angel a Distinction, giving the angel grief, making all his > friends mock him, making Dominic start paying him extra special attention, > and generally making his life Hell. > > It's quite possible that, if it is more of an actual change than a simple > title, that it would just be done by all of Kobal's Servitors calling the > angel by the title ("Look! It's Bobiel, Knight of Derision!" "STOP > CALLING ME THAT!"), and generally spreading it around. > > Still. > > What do y'all think? Would it work? Is it twisted enough for Kobal? > > I could even see some angels taking a twisted form of pride in it. It's not twisted... (A terribly hurt) Enosh > > Thanks! > > Alloni > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:32:28 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> IN: LARP In a message dated 5/4/98 1:41:22 PM, markadv@kinekom.com writes: >Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >> >> On Mon, 4 May 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >> >> > Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >> > >> > > But how do you model something that is not seen, but sensed, >> > > through walls, possibly hundreds of yards away? >> > >> > Hnadbells come to mind. >> > >> > Or beepers. >> >> Good ideas! *thinking* >> > >Consider this carefully. > >1) Not only do you "notify" players of disturbance (including those who >potentially or innately failed to "notice" IC), you also annoy every >non-player in earshot. One of the risks of it. But consider the level of disturbance we're tracking on here. >2) Bells, beepers or other "noisemakers" add a significant, and probably >prohibitive, cost to the presentation of a LARP. Only the referees/judges/storytellers need them, really. >3) If there's a better "mood killer" than ringing bells everytime you >start a conflict, I cannot think of what it might be. Of course, thats what's happening in the main In Nomine rules... Either you care about the disturbance or you don't. The participants hear the noise. Bystanders can hear the noise, potentially, and disturbance is not just for conflicts/combat. Mark... ------------------------------ Date: 04 May 1998 17:34:03 -0600 From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) Subject: Re: IN> Uriel's next assignment >>>>> "J" == Jesse writes: J> Alisteir Crowly dated Sophia Green who later married Lovecraft. J> Chances are Crowly knew Lovecraft. Some people belive that it was J> from Crowly that Lovecraft got the idea for the Necronamicon, which J> might be a real book that Crowly knew. This is a persistent misconception that is debunked at http://www.hplovecraft.com/, as are many other misconceptions about H.P. Lovecraft. The Aleister Crowley--Sonia Greene connection was part of a hoax that someone propogated a few years ago. Before this gets out of hand: 1) Lovecraft was a materialist who regarded mystical posturings as signs of a deficiency of character. 2) There is no Necronomicon. I refer any interested parties to the aforementioned website, and to Dan Clore's Necronomicon FAQ, linked to from the above. ObIN: does anyone have /sane/ house rules for handling disturbance? All the ones I've seen are at least as complicated as the official rules, which is kinda self-defeating. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:48:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> Upsetting Dominic On Mon, 4 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 7:31 PM -0500 5/1/98, Titus 3 11 wrote: > >(As a side note, I am currently helping run my frat's initiation, which > >involves staying up for about three days for everyone involved. [...] > > with a fraternity or sorority. Who, me, wimp? Why yes, and smile when > you say that.> > > >> >People always look at me funny when my malakim surrenders. They mention > >> >oaths and such - well, that whole not allowing evil to live one is most > >> >important, and the idea of slaying me is evil, thus if I surrender and > >> >kill the idea of slaying me, that idea being evil, I've done well. > >> >Yes I know Im going to Hell. Probably soon. Don't poke fun at the poor > >> >deluded Malakim, all right? > >> > >> Well, if you surrender to *Hellish* forces -- demons and Hellsworn and > >> Princes and such -- you get dissonance from that, too. > ><>you sane people. > >You see, I'm not surrendering TO them... they are my weapon (see! See how > >i fight creativly! ) to destroy the EVIL that is the idea to kill me - a > >far greater evil then they. So when I surrender to them, I am actually, > >really, weilding Ma great big bloody sword of reaping and killing and > >cutting... > >andhurting > >andstuff... > > Only if you really do fry them afterwards. Otherwise, you make > a nice discordant Malakite. Ummm yes...eventually...no sweat... > > >> Heh heh heh. Sneaky fellow, Eli. And obnoxious. And very good at > >> changing the subject if you *do* catch up with him. > >Speaking of which, what are your feelings on the recent (anything other > >then turning my vessel into a grease spot [its a cheap discord I want. > >When killed, the vessel -Always- turns into a grease spot....hehehehe] > > I think you need sleep. Good (if late) adviceM > >>Deluded Malakim of Creation... Yeah, that's gonna be a fun trial... > > > >"Trial? Isn't this the set of Full House? Divine Wraith and all?" > > Hey, Em, we gots a Malakite of Kobal here! Why do you think I'm so supportive of these Cthulu murmerings on the net? hahahha...thats right, oppose Nyarlathotep and the gigantic, tenebrous ultimate gods whose soul he is. > >> >>"You know, Most Holy, it would just be easier to kill this vessel and > >> >>finish the interrogation upstairs." "I do see the merit in that statement, > >> >>Virtue. Shall we make a vote of it, Guardian?" > >> >> > >> >That would be why I only spend three points on my vessels. Ever. They > >> >get....icked...often. > >> > >> Well, when you do things like *THAT* to *triads*, who are not created > >> with senses of humor (though some learn)... What do you expect. > >> > >> "Most Holy, I vote kill his vessel." "I concur." "That makes three of > >> us." > >(followed by the fastest, most desperate summoning of Eli ever seen. If > >that fails, try Kobal. Yes I know technically that that is bad...what the > >heck?) > > The Cherub tries to shake Eli's hand. The Malakite vanishs upstairs > to get help. And the Seraph smiles. "Ah, Eli. Thank you for attending > your insane servitor. And now that you're here, would you mind answering > a few questions?" > > The Cherub shakes Eli's hand and it slips out of Eli's sleeve, leaving the Cherub holding a plastic hand. When the Malakite gets upstairs, he finds his Heart surrounded by several pleasent-looking members of his choir, armed with what can only be described as "nick-nacks" - beads, ties, rocks, spare limbs...All quite friendly and happy to help him stay right where he is. Eli grins back to the Seraph and quietly shakes his head no. The Malakite on trial finds himself torn in two and sent back to his heart,free of discord and with another vessel made, a note next to his celestial self that reads "Behave - u owe me. Love, Eli" > Of course, Creationers have managed to summon Kobal before, in some > games... Never roll a 666... > > Yeah - I'm thinking to the recent posts about involuntary distinctions. But a 111 - how does that turn out GOOD when your summoning Kobal? People out there, could you help me sort out this situation? Kobal, Eli, surrender? Ahhh! Enosh > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #751 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.