From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 6 22:31:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13810 for ; Wed, 6 May 1998 22:31:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id WAA11130 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 6 May 1998 22:28:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:28:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199805070328.WAA11130@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #760 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 760 In this digest: Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... IN> War, the Sword and the War IN> A Question Re: IN> A Question Re: IN> A Question Re: IN> A Question IN>Read me first Re: IN> IN: Rasta Angel IN> PMtSoNSUN! Crusade Re: IN> Baal and Michael Re: IN> djinn and healing Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Re: IN> Writing Canon Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... Re: IN> Stray Thought... RE: IN> Writing Canon IN> Re: IN- In the hands of Angels... IN> Re: IN- In the hands of Angels... Re: IN> Jordi's big move Re: IN> Baal and Michael Re: IN>Demon Prince Audition IN> Re: New SWM GM seeks advice Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 15:35:10 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... >As I've mentioned earlier, I've played a demon once, and it scared me. >Really. *shudders* > >But then, a Habbalite of Malphas isn't the nicest demon to play, I guess. >:) Try a Habbalite of Furfur. They are scary little power-mongers. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:05:37 -0400 From: eswhanu@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... 1) a good catharsis, and to not have to worry about consequences. Playing an infernal is to concentrate on the 'me' (selfish), as opposed to the 'us' (selfless). 2) from what I have read, Hell looks like a lot more fun (in the game, that it) in terms of role-playing it. 3) sometimes, you just want to lash out at the 'good guys' 4) It's just fun 5) It helps to understand that 'evil' is not a two-dimensional thing, but has it's own reasoning, agendas, and beliefs. Light without darkness is blindness... Hope that helped. I personally prefer servitors of Nybbas and Asmodeus, either Djinn or Impudites. Brian Ward On Wed, 6 May 1998 11:30:15 -0700 (PDT) "Matt 'Badger' Rossi III" writes: >Something that's been occuring to me lately: > >I like playing IN, and I think it's one of the more interesting >games out there..but I never, ever, EVER play anything infernal. >EVER. The idea of it makes me cringe...I've layed a Malakite >of Gabriel, an Elohite of Lawrence, a Seraph of Novalis, and >a Grigori Outcast who formerly served Typhonioi, the >Grigori Archangel in my game...but never anything on the >infernal side. The idea doesn't >even appeal to me. (Hell, my Malakite had a bitch of a time in >Austin...) > >I'm wondering, fo those of you that prefer the inferbnal side of >things, why? Mind you, this isn't a judgement thing...I'm seriously >interested in your answers. > >Badger > >Currently playing Ranger, the Angel of Backfire >Malakite servant of Gabriel > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:05:37 -0400 From: eswhanu@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... 1) a good catharsis, and to not have to worry about consequences. Playing an infernal is to concentrate on the 'me' (selfish), as opposed to the 'us' (selfless). 2) from what I have read, Hell looks like a lot more fun (in the game, that it) in terms of role-playing it. 3) sometimes, you just want to lash out at the 'good guys' 4) It's just fun 5) It helps to understand that 'evil' is not a two-dimensional thing, but has it's own reasoning, agendas, and beliefs. Light without darkness is blindness... Hope that helped. I personally prefer servitors of Nybbas and Asmodeus, either Djinn or Impudites. Brian Ward On Wed, 6 May 1998 11:30:15 -0700 (PDT) "Matt 'Badger' Rossi III" writes: >Something that's been occuring to me lately: > >I like playing IN, and I think it's one of the more interesting >games out there..but I never, ever, EVER play anything infernal. >EVER. The idea of it makes me cringe...I've layed a Malakite >of Gabriel, an Elohite of Lawrence, a Seraph of Novalis, and >a Grigori Outcast who formerly served Typhonioi, the >Grigori Archangel in my game...but never anything on the >infernal side. The idea doesn't >even appeal to me. (Hell, my Malakite had a bitch of a time in >Austin...) > >I'm wondering, fo those of you that prefer the inferbnal side of >things, why? Mind you, this isn't a judgement thing...I'm seriously >interested in your answers. > >Badger > >Currently playing Ranger, the Angel of Backfire >Malakite servant of Gabriel > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 17:51:42 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: IN> War, the Sword and the War Kevin Walsh wrote: >>I've always wondered why it's Michael and Baal that are super- >> hostile, rather than Laurence and Baal -- they both focus on a lot of >> the same things. >> >I think that Laurence has more of a social focus than either Michael or >Baal, who are almost entirely military. Certainly I'd think it plausible >that Laurence would have a number of Servitors doing social work with a >religious slant. Of course, he is Baal's opposite number in the command >structures. Mm. I was thinking that it's Laurence and Baal who have the most martial worldviews of their respective sides. Laurence is a Malak, and Baal has that dark honor thing going. Each is the commander of their side's army, and both of them care very passionately about the military as a culture and a concept. There's a lot of overlap in worldview that's missing between Michael and Baal. Baal is the general making marks on his map, Laurence is the knight pledging his sword to God, and Michael is the peasant picking up a sickle to fight off bandits. Laurence and Baal would try to change the way an army thinks about itself: Baal would try to convince them that soldiers are a higher breed, and Laurence that they are in service to God and mankind. But both would focus on the idea of the soldier as a way of life. Michael seems to embody a lower-level idea: that there are lines you must draw, things worth sacrifice. The military is interesting to him only insofar as there is a somewhat higher percentage of people consciously aware of that idea in it. Of the martial angels, Janus and David seem closer to Michael, and Gabriel and Dominic closer to Laurence. I'm not sure yet -- I'll have to think about this some more. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 17:49:18 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: IN> A Question I was reading through the archives today and found this little note at the end of all of the digests: The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved. Umm, why is that? I don't recall a notice that states that the posted material is the property of SJ Games, although it may have been in the majordomo letter recieved at when I frist signed on. This strikes me as an awful sneaky thing for SJG to do and I do not like it one bit. Our postings should be our property, not SJG's. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 18:25:59 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> A Question >I was reading through the archives today and found this little note >at the end of all of the digests: > >The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. >All rights reserved. I should note I have only the most basic idea of copyright laws. Note: I just reread the majordomo response. It says the list is the property of SJG but says nothing as to who the postings belong to. So are the postings SJG's property? If so why are subscribers to the list not informed of this? SJG does publish the list, does this give them the right to declare copyright on items published on the list but written by other people? Do newspapers have copyright over letters to the editor or editorals that they do not write but publish? As I recall, authors have copyright over any works they compose unless they sign away those rights, which happens all to often :(. As far as I can tell I never signed away my rights to my postings yet SJG claims a copyright on them. What gives? - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 18:35:40 -0400 From: Robb Kidd Subject: Re: IN> A Question Jesse wrote: > I was reading through the archives today and found this little note > at the end of all of the digests: > > The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. > All rights reserved. > > Umm, why is that? I don't recall a notice that states that the posted > material is the property of SJ Games, although it may have been in the > majordomo letter recieved at when I frist signed on. This strikes > me as an awful sneaky thing for SJG to do and I do not like it one > bit. Our postings should be our property, not SJG's. Your posts are your own is the quick answer. For more detail read the mailing list FAQ. (http://The copyright issues are explained there. (And are rather bulky, so it didn't make much sense to post it here.) And, yep, it was in the letter you received when you first signed on. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 98 18:54 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> A Question >>I was reading through the archives today and found this little note >>at the end of all of the digests: >> >>The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. >>All rights reserved. > >What gives? I believe the *digests* have that notice because they fall under what is known as a "compilation copyright" -- a thing where a collection of stuff that may be uncopyright or copyrighted elsewhere individually is itself copyrighted *as the collection of stuff* (but not necessarily the individual items). However, I believe there's a general notice you get when you sign onto the list that says anything you send to the list becomes copyright by SJGames *if* it does not carry an explicit copyright notice of its own. I think this is so they have permission to publish it themselves (e.g., in a magazine column), if they feel like it, but I won't swear to it. In other words, if you want to retain copyright, you must so note in your message. At least that's what I recall -- it's been a while since I saw that thing, and I don't feel like digging it up again. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 18:54:37 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: IN>Read me first Whoops! Sorry 'bout those two posts: "IN>A Question" I got my answer, must of skipped over the compilation copyright bit. No need to bother with them. Sorry, my fault. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:06:51 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> IN: Rasta Angel >Jesse wrote: > >> Any ideas from the list as to who the angel of Rastafarians serves? >> I am thinking Wind because of the revolutionary message of Rastas. >> >> -Jesse > > Maybe. But I would imagine that Eli would be better. Just fits with >what I know of the principles. I can't rationale why, just a gut >instinct. > >Andrew What's this with Eli being the ultimate Rastafarian? Yes, I know, there is a picture in the main book in which he has dreads and looks like he has had more than his fair share of ganja. On that stance, Moses had horns (Michaelangelo's Moses), to succesfully render a 3-D object you must paint/draw all sides of it (cubism), and so on. This is an artists rendering. All in all, it's horribly inaccuarate to my campaign. Eli is just not very "neat and tidy". His eyes are always on the horizon, trying to find something that's all the way over there... Then he goes to work making it happen. He changes fascination on a moments notice, he might follow Rastafarianism for a time, but it will get old. He needs something "new". Currently, he is fighting the retro movement IMC. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:16:04 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> PMtSoNSUN! Crusade >>>If, however, you would like to sign a petition I have just now created, called "Please make the Servitors of Nitpicking shut up NOW", I would be more than happy to add your name to the list.<<< Sign me up. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:14:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Baal and Michael At 11:32 AM +0000 5/6/98, Leath Sheales wrote: >Jesse wrote: > >> But Beleth was a full Archangel > >No. It states quite clearly in "The Marches" that Beleth was the >Angel of Fear, and not an Archangel. I think it also says the same >in her write up in the main rulebook. I think there are contridictory instances, actually, which leads me to figure that before the Fall, 'Wordbound Angel' and 'Archangel' were a lot closer in ranking (if not sheer power, if you catch the difference), and the titles could be used interchangably sometimes. For instance: "angel of Fear" (p, IN164) "then-Archangel of Fear" (p. M28) "Archangel of Fear" (p. APG9) Andre, likewise, is called "angel of Love" in the APG and "Archangel of Love" in the IPG. Baal... not known. Perhaps he was Glory or Confidence. O;> Belial, though, was a lowly Servitor, though created relatively early. Considering that the Seraphim Council didn't show up until after the Fall, it was probably okay to call an Archangel just "angel of x" then. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:01:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> djinn and healing At 6:43 PM -0700 5/5/98, David M. Barr wrote: >My thoughts are along the fact that Djinn are also allowed to attune to >objects and places. So, for example, they could attune to a sword, and >arrange for that sword to be given to someone they wanted to hurt. No >problems. Or, instead of a sord, a ring. a jacket. p. IPG36, Djinn of Asmodeus. O;> >My question therefore is, would the corp song of healing work on >an inanimate object? I believe that the answer for this is yes. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:21:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal At 12:33 AM -0400 5/6/98, eswhanu@juno.com wrote: >>(1) No one can have skills above 6, except Superiors. Just as no >>non-Superiors can have attributes above 12. If your group has a house >>rule>that makes it legal, cool, but I wanted to let you know it's >>*definitely*>non-canon. > >OK, these are all the celestials I found that break with canon then, out >of the books: > >- Furfur (Pre Demon Prince, NM) 14 Strength, Will 13 Everyone in Heaven & Hell who went over 12 has errata. For some reason, I have not noticed Furfur before this. Probably because my Night Music book is fragile back there. I will do errata there now. ... Ah, I don't need to, there already *is* errata there. >Granted, may not seem like a lot, but it does violate the supposed >'Canon' The In Nomine Line Editor (that's me) says: No characteristics above 12. No Forces over 6. No skill-levels over 6. Anything else, please check errata and then tell me about it if it's not there, so I can put it there. And if I find anything of that sort in any book that I really *did* Line Edit (H&H was before my time, alas!), I will string somebody up after I finish eating dissonance. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:49:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Writing Canon At 3:34 AM +0900 5/6/98, Simon Hailes wrote: > To my chagrin i still don't own the I.P.G. but I did peruse it at my >local gamestore, and low and behold, do I not see a lot of familiar names. >David Edelstein of course, he has writter for In Nomine before, but >Elizabeth McCoy too, and Walter Milliken, all fellow list buddies (we can >discuss the last term later). >At first that made me proud, I'd talked with >these people, heard them speak, but it also made me curious, just how could >I get my name in a future In Nomine sourcebook? Offer me a few Geas/6's, and we'll talk... *ahem* Okay, first, you gotta have talent. Second, you gotta be able to write, write well, write to deadline, and write work-for-hire. The second is almost more important than the talent. [Work-for-hire means you give up your firstborn child, the first time you do it. Interesting experience, that was.] Now, let us presume you wish to write for In Nomine... (This seems logical enough, no?) Go to: http://www.sjgames.com/general/guidelines/writers/ Read everything there. Drink it in. Breathe it. Sleep with it. Mind you, some of that is written mostly slanted towards GURPS, but most of the basic rules will be very similar. Be able to spell -- if not in informal writing, then at least in every single submission you want taken seriously (I use a spellchecker for my real work). Be able to write coherent sentences. Be able to punctuate. Write coherently. Follow directions. Next, ask me to email you the usage stuff (which I need to put on the INC...) -- the plurals, the singulars, the capitalizations. Read it. Breathe it. Put it under your pillow at night. Get the In Nomine books, as many as you can afford. Read them. Read the errata. Point out all the errata that needs to be put on the errata pages. http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata/ Come up with a simpler version of the disturbance rules... O;> Come up with something that could go into Pyramid Magazine. An adventure, usually. A background. (You read the Pyramid Writer's Guidelines, right? If not, do that first. Obey the Writer's Guidelines as if they were the bible. Or more, depending on your religion.) Polish the thing. Make sure it is coherent. Show it to your friends. Get a nitpicky English Major to edit it for you. Make sure it follows the rules. If you have a celestial with a Role, he needs Status, too, no higher than the Role (and the Status must be appropriate to the Role, which may mean you need a higher Role-level!). Know the rules, know the rules, know the rules. Get the plurals right. Never, ever, use the first person plural in anything where you- the-author are talking to me-the-reader. (I.e., "we.") Ever. It is one of my pet hates. If you do that, I will probably say thanks but no thanks. Be very careful with the use of the second person (i.e., "you"), especially in adventures or adventure seeds -- they make me think of amature convention writeups. There are some places where using "you" to indicate the reader in an abstract way are okay; be careful, though, since using it *too* much is too informal. Do *NOT* mix third person ("he/she/they") and second person ("you") in the same paragraph. Use of the first person singular ("I") is also something that is bad, 99% of the time. Humor is tricky. Good, dry humor may be okay -- or we may think it comes out as lame. Accept this and don't feel bad if you submit humor and it gets rejected as campy. Submit it to me if you want me to make sure you have canon right. I prefer Email, though I'll get to you quicker if you ask ahead. I prefer plain ascii, not HTML (no, never), not RTF (unless you really *must*), and while I have MS Word, I'd rather not have to deal with that. Bear in mind that I may be abrupt, cruel, and will scrutinize your firstborn material and nitpick it. I am the Demon Princess of Nitpicking. Accept this and be glad that you are giving me Essence. (I nitpick *myself*, frankly.) If I suggest changes, you make them, promptly and without arguement. As you may well know, there are lots of people who want to write stuff. Prickly ones are less fun to work with than people who smile (or pout -- I understand pouting) and then conform to the slightest whim of me and Steve Jackson. (*Don't* pout at SJ, and keep it light with me.) If I am just utterly carried away by what you wrote, if it just *reeks* of the feel for In Nomine that we like, if it's presented cleanly... Then not only will I urge you to send it along to Pyramid (pyramid@io.com, and wait till Scott clears out from under the mountain of slush-pile -- there's some stuff that I submitted, that he accepted over a month later, that will be published...when? Dunno.), but I may offer you a chance to write something. What I offer will depend on what's available. If we're between books, then there may be a wait. If you luck out, we want exactly what you have. (Mind you, that's so utterly random that if you get your hopes up, you deserve the crushing blow when you don't manage that trick.) If you have IN fiction, or just general stuff, like a non-canon Superior writeup, or Songs -- and a web-page -- send me a URL. I'll do my best to go look there. If you have good ideas but are a heavy edit, find someone else to edit your work. We have very good writers who are not heavy edits, and I can guarentee that they'll get the assignments over someone who has brilliant ideas but poor presentation. If you can team up with someone and do great work together, then that's good -- so long as you can do this and write to deadline. Cultivate a detachment between your stuff and you. It's hard. I'm still not good at it. (I cannot edit my own stuff clearly. Fortunately, I have a spouse.) Sometimes nitpicking/criticism can be brutal, and people (like me, *sigh*) don't always think to put in the things they *do* like. (Sometimes you can ask, "But is [x] okay?" and get the affirmation that way.) Typing blunt nitpicks is easier on the hands than being "nice" and gets the message across clearly, hopefully. It does not, usually, mean that someone hates you. (This doesn't mean you can't discuss a point, especially if you want to convey [x] point and it's not coming through clearly -- sometimes the reader can suggest a phrasing that makes it clear to them.) As for who makes the decisions... Me, Scott, and Steve Jackson, primarily. Suck up to us all. Well, be polite, at least. All the groveling in the world won't help if you just don't have the IN feel. Though I'll appreciate the footrubs. And the Geas/6's don't hurt. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 22:21:18 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... At 11:30 AM 6/05/98 -0700, you wrote: >Something that's been occuring to me lately: > >I like playing IN, and I think it's one of the more interesting >games out there..but I never, ever, EVER play anything infernal. >EVER. The idea of it makes me cringe...I've layed a Malakite >of Gabriel, an Elohite of Lawrence, a Seraph of Novalis, and >a Grigori Outcast who formerly served Typhonioi, the >Grigori Archangel in my game...but never anything on the >infernal side. The idea doesn't >even appeal to me. (Hell, my Malakite had a bitch of a time in >Austin...) > >I'm wondering, fo those of you that prefer the inferbnal side of >things, why? Mind you, this isn't a judgement thing...I'm seriously >interested in your answers. > >Badger > > I'll field that one because I have spoken of tbis before, to some the concept of playing demons is well, you know, too sick. We grow up hating the bad guys and loving the good guys, did any of us on list like Skeletor when we were five and watching He-Man, or Gargamel, or Sammydy Sam, whatever his name his, well actually he was quite amusing but you get my point. We think being a demon means being sick and bad all the time, committing one atrocity after the other, well, that's because you have never given playing a demon any serious thought, I and others as well have, and know that there is a whole world of roleplaying that you are ignoring by sticking to angels. A) Bad Guys are now cool, look at Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs, hell, look at Seinfeld, how may of us cheer when Newman appears? B)Demons are not necessarily bad guys anyway, they just get bad press, they are infact in the end just soldiers fighting an impossible war, the underdogs, the hated, the hunted, the doomed, wouldn't you be just a little angry with the world if you were in that position C) Evil anyway isn't just butchering grandmas and swapping someones whiskey for paint thinner, it is in most cases quite subtle, and the best demon is the one who causes others to commit atrocities while sitting back and watching the show, think Leyland Gaunt from Needful Things, telling them they could have exactly what they want for just a little favor, he ended up almost destroying Castkle Rock without not even lifting a finger! D) Demons are hip, while angels brood and sternly watch and judge human beings on their own codes and ethics, demons are out there having fun any which way, they keep up with the trends, and indeed create new ones, they have all the good lines, and charm, and there not afraid to tell it how it is. Well, that's enough from me for now on the topic, until I write again. Simon, unabashed Demon Lover 'Oh yeah, about setting you free, I lied!' The Demon, Demon Knight > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:31:35 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Stray Thought... On Mon, 4 May 1998, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > [A Shedite taking poison is] a good way of killing a pesky mortal and > passing it off as suicide... That reminds me. There *will* be a disturbance in the Symphony at the moment of death, and it *won't* be small. So yes the norms will think it was suicide, but the local angels won't. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:43:42 -0400 From: ixDragons Subject: RE: IN> Writing Canon - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7938.DB311B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Uh.... hmmm.... what about art? I have something that I am working on... It isn't finished, but I'll email it to you and you tell me if I have = talent deal? P.S. 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The idea of it makes me cringe...I've layed a Malakite >of Gabriel, an Elohite of Lawrence, a Seraph of Novalis, and >a Grigori Outcast who formerly served Typhonioi, the >Grigori Archangel in my game...but never anything on the >infernal side. The idea doesn't >even appeal to me. (Hell, my Malakite had a bitch of a time in >Austin...) I assume you mean PLAYED a Malakite of Gabriel, etc :-) >I'm wondering, fo those of you that prefer the inferbnal side of >things, why? Mind you, this isn't a judgement thing...I'm seriously >interested in your answers. I've run one session of demons. A quick list of reasons: 1> It's interesting to play the bad guys for a change. Almost all RPGs (even Vampire) the characters are assumed to be good 2> With the correct moral grey area, you can make demons actually seem to be the good guys, and angels the bad guys. 3> It's fun torturing the players by making the non-demonic/good/dissonant thing to do the more attractive option. 4> Demons are more secretive and paranoid than angels. 5> It's cathartic. Two of my friends who usually don't get along actually became better friends, teaming up to ruin the relationship of some NPC humans. Venting frustrations on fictitious people can be healthy, IMHO. Particularly if you make the NPCs stereotypes, rather than realistic people. 6> Hell, it's just like southpark! SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism (is there a canon Angel of Constructive Criticism??) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 19:43:30 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Re: IN- In the hands of Angels... >But then, a Habbalite of Malphas isn't the nicest demon to play, I guess. >:) > >Anders Gabrielsson OI!!! We're not paid to be *nice*. That's for big fat woosy girls' blouses! ;-) SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:45:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's big move On Wed, 6 May 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > On Tue, May 05, 1998 at 09:31:57PM -0400, Pee Kitty wrote: > > On Mon, 4 May 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > > > > Dissonant. A Djinn can't ask someone else to get rid of an object of their > > > attunement, though they can make hints, like "I'm really sick of being > > > attuned to X, and if you do me a favour, I'll give you this relic." > > > "What sort of favour?" > > > "I can't say." > > > > Says who? > > Me. And, I believe, canon as well. Nope. IPG, p. 34, "Djinn acquire dissonance one of two ways: by harming the object of their attunement or by becoming too attached. [...] Usually this [(fighting)] is easy to avoid - the Djinn can simply retreat or stand by and let his friends beat the [attuned] into a bloody pulp." I don't have the main book with me or I'd quote from that instead. > It says a Djinn cannot being himself to harm the object, but the > > netreps on this list have made it QUITE clear that he can stand by and let > > his friends do the whomping. It's not dissonant at all. > > > The example I gave was an example of standing by and letting someone else > do the whomping, if a bit dubious. However, saying "I want you to kill > this guy" is not standing by, it is instigating direct harm to the > object of attunement. In other words, it is not directly harming them; it is getting someone ELSE to harm them for you. Not dissonant. > Djinn can tell someone that the fixation is > somewhere in the sure knowledge that that person will take out the > fixation, but can't say "I want you to go to wherever in order to take out > the fixation." It's a thin line, but it's there. IYC, perhaps. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:48:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Baal and Michael On Wed, 6 May 1998, Sean McCarthy wrote: > > Given that Baal is the only Superior on either side that we know of with a > > Word based solely on a single event, is it reasonable to assume that > > before he Fell he had a similarly time-limited Word? And was it, perhaps, > > the fear that his role might soon be over that drove him, alone among that > > generation (excluding Lucifer) to rebel against God? > > > > Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. > > I'm not sure about that. The Game is defined as the contest between > Heaven and Hell. No, The War is. The Game is the law by which the demons play. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:56:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Audition On Wed, 6 May 1998, Warsinger wrote: > I think aargh forgotten his real name - does Mr Bean and Blackadder. The > way he did Blackadder, now that's just how I see Kobal. Somebody > Atkinson. Rowan Atkinson? Yes! Yes, perfect! (Note to anyone who's only seen "Bean: The Movie" - Don't judge Rowan by that. See some of his OTHER stuff.) I hereby change my vote and second the nomination for Rowan Atkinson. He can be a jaded, cynical jerk and still carry an undertone of irrepresible humor better than anyone else. I can't think of anyone better to play a character who's always funny, yet sick to death of being so. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 20:00:09 PDT From: "jev h." Subject: IN> Re: New SWM GM seeks advice >> Hey! I'm very new to In Nomine, but I really like it. I have the >core >> book and the Angelic Player's Guide, and I am preparing to GM a >group, >> but I need advice on what to do, get, etc. I have GM'd other >> role-playing games, but In Nomine is different. > >In terms of supplements, it depends on the group you are goign to >run. >Will the be just angels, just demons, or both angels and demons? If >just angels, will they run into many demons? Will the NPC demons be >token adversaries, or full fledged individuals? > >If there are demon PCs, or if individual demons are expected to be >recurrent, well-developed NPCs, then the Infernal Player's Guide is >the >first supplement I would recommend you get in addition to the one >you've >got. The value of additional supplements (Liber Reliquarium or the >Revelations Cycle) would depend on what your game is focusing on, or >what you are interested in. > >In any event, take a look at the Errata on the SJ Games home page. >Then, read this list, and the In Nomine Collection web page, and >plunder >mercilessly for ideas and inspiration :) > >What other games have you GM'ed, and how is IN different? > >- -Rob I have GM'd Dungeons and Dragons, Toon, and Shadowrun. I think it's pretty obvious how IN is different. I will be running this campaign for angels, who also want to try being demons. I am planning on using a couple of recurring NPC's, but unfortunately the Infernal PGuide is not available at my local supply store. Cadavaca ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:14:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... On Wed, 6 May 1998, Matt 'Badger' Rossi III wrote: > Something that's been occuring to me lately: > > I like playing IN, and I think it's one of the more interesting > games out there..but I never, ever, EVER play anything infernal. > EVER. The idea of it makes me cringe...I've layed a Malakite ^^^^^ > of Gabriel, an Elohite of Lawrence, a Seraph of Novalis, and > a Grigori Outcast who formerly served Typhonioi, the > Grigori Archangel in my game...but never anything on the > infernal side. Well, perhaps you should try it. I hear Lilim of Andrealphus are well worth the effort.... (Sorry; couldn't resist THAT typo! :) > The idea doesn't > even appeal to me. (Hell, my Malakite had a bitch of a time in > Austin...) > > I'm wondering, fo those of you that prefer the inferbnal side of > things, why? Mind you, this isn't a judgement thing...I'm seriously > interested in your answers. Actually, I've been GMing IN exclusively until tomorrow when I finally play for the first time (a player is starting his own campaign to give me a rest), and I'm playing an angel. :) But we all love our Dark game, believe me, and I look forward to the chance to play a demon as well. Why? Same reason I like to play an angel; it's a unique and interesting roleplaying experience. To be honest, a heavenly angel is actually more of a stretch for me; I consider myself a Habbalite, which is a different time of angel. But I digress. Demons are fun. They don't follow an external codes of morality and are the ultimate selfists. That's a LOT of freedom. And freedom is fun. It's the same reason half the people playing AD$D are Chaotic Neutral--freedom. Following some god means that you've gotta obey all his stupid little rules...demons know better and obey only themselves, paying lip service to their masters (most of the ones who actively follow their master's orders willingly (not out of fear) only do so because it's what they would've done anyways--I mean, you don't become a Shedite of Saminga if you don't like dead bodies). So basically, freedom and fun, and no outmoded morality clauses to bind yourself by. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #760 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.