From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat May 9 00:32:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA17184 for ; Sat, 9 May 1998 00:32:16 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id AAA32758 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 9 May 1998 00:36:50 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 00:36:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199805090536.AAA32758@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #768 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, May 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 768 In this digest: Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Angels of Purity Re: IN> Children of the Grigori Re: IN> Re: IN- Changing Nature of Words IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- In Nomine character maximums Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums Re: IN> Stat limits IN> supergirl mark 2. Maitr'ex: grigori of Gabriel IN> Re: supergirl mark 2 Re: IN> Writing Canon Re: IN> Words, and WHY YOU CAN'T CHANGE THEM Guilty, yer honor (was Re: IN> Copying Replies) Re: IN> supergirl mark 2. Maitr'ex: grigori of Gabriel IN> Suspicion (was RE: djinn and healing) Re: IN> Words, and WHY YOU CAN'T CHANGE THEM Re: IN> Michael's Dissonance Conditions (Re: Angels and Dicey Words) IN> Writing Canon Re: IN> Angels of Purity Re: IN> Children of the Grigori Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums IN> words Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Re: IN- Children of the Grigori Re: IN> Stat limits IN> Discord Re: IN> Words, and WHY YOU CAN'T CHANGE THEM Re: IN> words Re: IN> Angels of Purity Re: IN> Changing Nature of Words IN> Angels of Purity ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 16:55:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits > I don't need to, I've heard it from Elizabeth. And then they went and > made her Line Editor. Be careful what you complain about, for you may > find yourself in charge of being complained *at*.... I've heard that rumor. It doesn't stop me from complaining, mind you. > Yes, they need a 2nd edition, for mostly organizational reasons. I > don't think all the rules expansions would fit into a single book, > though, unless you want 3-point type.... Elizabeth and I have had a few > discussions on how to organize all this material that's coming out in > some coherent way for long-term use. There may be a need for something > like the "Compendium" books that SJGames has put out for other > heavily-evolved product lines. Indeed. The 2nd Edition is a reorganization of the original book. The current book is a mess. It would be nice if all the master rules were in one place [creation of dis, creation of dat] so that someone who wanted to play IN causally could have them all in one place. But I'm not against master compendium either. It's just locality which is lacking. Nothing rankles me more then having to own a whole pile of books to do things right. Ah, organization. Verily, we hardly knew thee. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 22:04:50 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Angels of Purity On Fri, May 08, 1998 at 04:47:01PM -0400, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: > > On reflection, I apologise for the posts about Seraphim resonating the > > moral truth. But not the others, until someone can demonstrate to my > > satisfaction that I hurt a serious thread by useless nitpicking. > > I don't know about anyone else, but that one didn't bother me. I rather > enjoyed the in-depth look at how the seraph resonance works (since I'll be > playing one soon). I wasn't referring to my take on evasions, or to the dodging business. (I would have posted the latter anyway, although possibly not before the summer.) But I thought the stuff about how their resonance doesn't tell Seraphim that God wants them to do X had been reasonably well dealt with before, and my intervention in that thread was _not_ constructive. So I insist on apologising for it. (If I'm going to write apologies to the list, people might as well understand what I'm apologising for.) As a matter of interest, could you tell me more about this Seraph? What I despised was the 8 page long post and repost > routine about whether or not somebody deserved a rank "in the service of > Nitpicking". It ate up my account's memory for no useful purpose; heck, > it wasn't even entertaining. > Oh, that. I didn't start that one, and only posted to it once. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:07:54 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Children of the Grigori On Fri, 8 May 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > I would treat them as low-Force angels (maybe 7 Forces), possibly with > some Songs that aren't necessarily under conscious control and a free > vessel, Status, and Role (per normal humans). > > They should also have some sort of resonance; they can apparently detect > celestials just from being around them (there's small throwaway line in > the description in the core book), so maybe that's it. Since they are > called "the Watchers", it should probably be something related to > watching over humans. Also, the APG or IPG places the creation of the > Grigori *after* the Fall, so they were partly there to counter demonic > influence. > > Nothing really in canon yet. All I can say is that there *will* be more > on them, someday. The INC pages might have someone's house rules for > CoG, and there are various religious myths about them, that people have > mentioned on this list. Apparently they mostly revolve around the fact > that they interbred with humans. I think City of Angels is probably the best inspiration for creating the Grigori that I can think of. Since they were teachers as well as watchers, their resonance could be for allowing others (especially humans) to connect seemingly unrelated bits of information into a coherent thought/idea. That way, they could teach (and watch out for) humanity without becoming activly involved. They might get dissonance for directly telling humans something, instead of just giving them hints and advice. A Fallen Grigori maigh not have any capacity for original thought. Everything he does is by rote, or because he was ordered to do so, or because he stole it from somebody else. Their resonance might be the ability to steal ideas from others, so they can act. Richard "Mr. Uriel" Gant ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:10:27 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Changing Nature of Words On Fri, 8 May 1998, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > I think the best solution is to simply not use Words in that way, but to > only use "abstract" words, or words that have a fairly universal > metaphorical meaning. OTOH, the simplest way by far is to simply not care > about these things, but that would go against my nature as a linguist. :) Well, in my campaign, that's what Heaven does. Anels and Archangels get the metaphorical Words. I also allow Saints to become Word-bound, but they get the "concrete" Words (i.e. Words that have a very definate meaning) because they have experience with the corporeal realm and can promote those kinds of Words better. Richard "Mr. Uriel" Gant ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 14:35:03 PDT From: "Bartholomew Hammerly" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- In Nomine character maximums Actually, I was mostly kidding as well. However, it is important to remember that this game is about war (between Heaven & Hell), and sometimes you lose. In canon, an archangel can strip the field agent in lots of ways, including failure. If your players are becoming too powerful (a problem which GM's should prevent, rather than cure), there isn't any 'nice' way to solve the problem. Archangels can also stop upstart angels short. Isn't too much ambition a vice? (I guess Dominic is never around when you really need him) I guess I'm just agreeing that it can be a problem. Be creative. >From: Walter Milliken >I generally don't agree with this approach -- it's too likely to annoy >the players, and a GM who routinely trashes characters somewhat >arbitrarily will lose players. (definitely agree here) > >Trashing artifacts is a *little* less troublesome, since the player has >to be at least somewhat aware that they're vulnerable to theft and >destruction. But players do tend to feel that they should keep what >they've paid for (after all, the GM let them buy it... >whine... whine....) > >My comment about celestial combat was only half-serious -- it's too >unreliable a method of fixing Force distributions. In particular, the >most likely outcome would be to remnantize the *weakest* character in >the group, rather than the one that's been upping Forces at every >opportunity.... > >As a GM, I prefer to avoid these problems in the first place, rather >than try to fix them up after the fact. I think the IN reward rules >could use some better GM advice, and maybe some tweaking, but I'm not >fond of drastic corrective action, ex post facto. Bart Hammerly "Time is the fire in which we burn." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:22:18 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums > > Experience points are really only neccessary if you're accepting the whole > >'delayed gratification' thing that a lot (OK, almost all) RPGs focus on. If you > >enjoy the character you create, why the urge to make them different? > > There are a number of answers to that, including "character growth" and > the fact that many games limit starting characters to the lower power > levels of a genre, as In Nomine does. Character growth doesn't have to be a mechanical thing, though. Personality cahnges and growth are best done as the player desires, and you can get a lot of that done without XPs. A year-long Kult game I ran never hand any xp handed out, but all the characters changed quite a lot. As for the low-power level - well, as far as IN goes you're only low powered in comparison with some other characters in the world. PC Celestials are more powerful than any human being and most other celestials (Relievers, Imps and all the Celestials who don't act on Earth). It's like playing in a supers campaign - you start with a heap of power-ups; do you really need more? > Traveller went the route you suggest, and I've heard any number of > people complain about it as one of the more annoying flaws in the > original system. TFOS takes the viewpoint that's it's sort of dumb, but > rather Pavlovian to award experience points, and suggests using M&Ms > instead. In other words, it's not a new idea, but seems to be > wanted/expected by players. It's probably due to some deep flaw in > human psychology that leads to things like video games and MBAs.... A couple of other games on the market don't have experience systems - Nexus and Everway are two that I own, and I know there are more. Castle Falkenstein and Amber took experience out of a mechanical framework and made it into a collaberative decision between GM and player, and that works okay. I'm not preaching that experience systems are bad - not in the slightest (in the IN PBeM I'm playing, I'm desperately trying to accrue enough xps to get Transubstantiation), but they seem overly geared to working your way up to the character you want to play and suffering an insufficient character in the interim. What you need is a system that lets you play characters at the level you want - or players that are happy with the character they create. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia They may walk hand in hand Like lovers through the market square Selecting leathergoods, pretending that they just don't care They say all the boys are monsters, all the girls are whores SQUIRREL NUT ZIPPERS, "Plenty More" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:48:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits Walter Milliken writes: [...] >I'm pretty sure that current canon (unpublished, I think) has it that >only AAs and DPs can grant attunements, though the Word-bound will >probably develop several that *he* can use. But he can't give them to >others. _The Marches_, somewhere in the Sorcery section: the Demon of Sorcery. A Servitor of Kronos, her Word of Sorcery gives her the Sorcery attunement, which she can grant to anyone she wishes. Either Hatiphas is one gigantic erratum (since the whole Sorcery system is entangled with having her behind the scenes), or Sorcery is a special case that works differently from any other attunement -- or else, any attunement that you gain from your *own* Word can be bestowed on anyone else as you see fit. I had automatically assumed that the last applied because it fit the description of the Demon of Sorcery above and because it clearly encompassed Superior mechanics as simply a special case of Word-bound celestials granting their own Word attunements to others. >His Superior could, probably. (The main reason for this is a >game-mechanics problem of having PCs with access to multiple Choir/Band >attunements, in particular, but Servitor ones are also a problem.) Please note that I assumed "bestowability" to apply to attunements you get from *your own* Word, only. Attunements from your Superior's Word, including its Choir/Band attunements, remain exclusively your Superior's to grant, even though you personally may have them. I summarize alternative Rite interpretations: Unwritten Canon: Rite allows you to tap Superior's Essence reserve; Non-Canon: Rite generates Essence for Rite practitioner *and* granting Superior. Walter's "This" below to the Non-Canon version. >This is in fact the opinion I held initially. However, this doen't >explain why the Superior doesn't give the Rite to everyone he can, which >is one reason for the canon change -- it was deemed undesirable that the >PCs pick up Rites like potato chips. [...] >The Rite still *does* promote the Superior's Word, but doesn't >necessarily provide them directly with Essence. This also makes >Word-bound likely to be careful who they give Rites to, since it allows >the Rite-holder to tap the Word-bound's Essence, and they don't have the >huge amounts to play with that a Superior does. OK, I see why the non-Canon version is unacceptable as presented -- but I would like respectfully to suggest that the unwritten Canon version is not quite a sufficient fix. The small problem is that practicing a Rite actually *weakens* a Superior, by grabbing some of his Essence -- this is a small problem because the effects of "promoting a Word" could be suitably defined in such a way as to compensate. The big headache is: When a Word-bound performs one of its *own* Rites, where is the Essence coming from? Can't be the Superior, it's not the Superior's Word or Rite. Can't be itself as holder of the Word, or it wouldn't actually gain anything. A similar question applies to Rites like the ones Loki and Thor are given in H&H, which to top it off are usable multiple times per day. They don't *have* Superiors -- where is the Essence source? Another small headache: in the Canon definition, if you hold a Rite from a non-superior Word-bound, and perform it at a moment when that particular celestial is running on empty, the implication is that you get nothing. Since I recently read a recommendation to the effect of "don't gripe unless you have a fix", I would advise going back to the Non-Canon interpretation described above and providing a different disincentive for handing out your Rite to everybody you meet. One obvious possibility is that granting somebody one of your Rites costs *you* character points; after all, you'll benefit from their practice of it. If the prospect of PC Word-bound getting random Essence boosts from other people using their Rites is deemed undesirable, stick with the practitioner of the Rite drawing Essence from the Symphony (not from the Rite-granter), and some other small benefit accruing to the Word-bound. The fix to Renegades vs. Redeemed, which was cited as the other reason for going to the Unwritten Canon version, strikes me as not helpful. No matter what system is implemented for Rite mechanics, the fact that Renegades can't use their Superior's Rites while Redeemed *can* still use their ex-Superior's Rites means that the Rite-granter has some way of turning the Rite on and off without stripping it entirely from the character. I don't see where tapping the Rite-granter's Essence pool vs. tapping the Symphony makes any difference to either the necessity or the implementation of this feature. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm attacking you, Walter; I'm arguing at length and in detail because I have the impression that this feature is not yet frozen into published canon and I would *really* prefer a mechanic I liked over one that made no sense to me. Essence is evidently the sine-qua-non of supernatural existence, and it would bother me intensely to see it become a zero-sum resource ("the only way I can gain more Essence, beyond my daily ration, is by taking it away from someone else.") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 01:40:20 +0000 (GMT) From: "The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather" Subject: IN> supergirl mark 2. Maitr'ex: grigori of Gabriel Ok here is supergirl mark 2, taking into account of some suggestions I've recieved. And this is no way a balanced character Maitr'ex, grigori of Gabriel Atunements: Grigori of Fire (see below) ofanim of Fire smite (streams of fire from eyes) varient of Kyriotate of Destiny Vesel /5 charisma/ (beautiful,entrancing,sex appeal, both sexes) Role /6 status /2 Linda Danvers, artist (sculpture) Discord: Bound/6 Skills Fighting /4 Lying /2 Tracking /3 Artistry /4 (sculpture/3 drawing /1) Songs: corporeal song of form /6 ( tougher than normal) celestial song of form /6 (allowing her to morph from Linda to supergirl) corporeal song of motion /6 (flight) etherial song of motion /6 (Telekinesis) celestial song of motion /1 (teleportation) After being serverly injured in a fight with the impudite Buzz, Kara was bound into a vessel with the form of a recently sacrificed mortal called Linda Danver by Gabriel, for reasons of her own. A gift from Yves allows her to access the memories and skills of Linda. She truly believes she is now mortal, with gifts. She knows how to use her powers, or most of them but doesn't know what they actually are. The Truth is that she is a Grigori, But only Gabriel and probably yves knows. Linda, continues to pursue those that attempt to escape justice, and to protect the citizens of her new hometown of Leesburg. Lindas' parents have recently discovered that their daughter isn't who she seems to be. Her Father, Fred, has accepted his "new" daughter, her Mother, sylvia has not. And who is the strange little boy who is called Wally by others, but refers to himself as God. He knows too much to be simply a delusional child. Can he really be God? Perhaps Eli or Yves in child form, or maybe even Kobal. note. Grigori of Fire. Gabriels grigori are attuned to the infernal type cruelty .These servitors can recognise those who willingly work for evil, whether Soldier,undead or Demon. At the cost of one essence the angel can form wings of fire. These are not flight aids but are weapons, a hand to hand attack with power equal to celestial forces and an acuracy of -3 (no penalty if target is charging angel). The fire will only effect evil and can attackboth corporeal or celestial forms, not dependant on what form angel is in. Also the wings can effect a shedite, or someone using song of posession, harming them, but leaving the host unharmed Starsurfer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 01:46:31 +0000 (GMT) From: "The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather" Subject: IN> Re: supergirl mark 2 Doh. forgot to put in stats Cor Eth Cel 4 4 5 10 Str 7 int 12 wil 6 Agi 9 pre 8 per Starsurfer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 17:59:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Writing Canon - ---Walter Milliken wrote: > > I'll note here that a bunch of my semi-humorous stuff for Liber > Reliquarum got dropped. So it goes.... > ---Walter > A question for you, Walter...I don't have my books handy, so: Did you write any of the "story" text? If so, where is it? I like the stories in the In Nomine books...Which brings me to my next question for Anyone Who Knows: WHEN will we see In Nomine Novels? I want to read them! I feel very strongly that they would be successful. I understand the reasons why there are none out now, but I will say for the record that I will buy them when I see them! And I feel that I am not alone in this, right people? Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:11:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Words, and WHY YOU CAN'T CHANGE THEM - ---Charles Venedam wrote: > > Ya know, I've only been checking the digest frequently for the last coupla > months, and it's shocking how little some things change. Like the bit > about changing your word, and how everyone in this list wants to do it. Hey, I don't want to change my Word! :) Come to think of it, I don't even have a Word! Hmmm, I am probably the ONLY guy on this list that doesn't have a Word...Oh well, that's the way the Symphony resonates... :) > Besides, angels should be above petty politics. Anyone who writes a game > that says otherwise is gonna burn in hell :) > > Charlie V. > > Words (pun intented) to live by, Charlie! Graveyard Greg - --who really doesn't mind not having a Word. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:15:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Guilty, yer honor (was Re: IN> Copying Replies) - ---David Edelstein wrote: >For that matter, I notice quite a few new subscribers > lately have gotten in the habit of copying the _entire_ text of the message > to which they are replying, which has resulted in some list digests being > over 50% reposts. > -David > I have been guilty of that (accidentally, mind you), and I would like to thank Steve Jessop for politely pointing that out to me privately! Thanks, Steve! Now, watch me have the wrong guy...(grumble grumble) Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:24:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> supergirl mark 2. Maitr'ex: grigori of Gabriel - ---"The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather" wrote: > > Ok here is supergirl mark 2, taking into account of some suggestions I've > recieved. > And this is no way a balanced character Beautiful! Remind me to show you Kevin Matchstick--the Hero Discovered! MAGE, anyone? Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:35:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> Suspicion (was RE: djinn and healing) - ---Titus 3 11 wrote: > *coughs and looks embarrassed* > uuuuhhh...no...that's uhhh...Vapula, yah vapula, messing with the > digests....yeah... > *scratches the back of his head and looks behind him* > ahh i hear my superior calling...gotta go! > Enosh > Malkite of Creation > Servitor of KoImean Micheal > > Hmmmm.....Time to make a few phone calls...I think we got a live one here! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:31:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> Words, and WHY YOU CAN'T CHANGE THEM > Come to think of it, I don't even have a Word! Hmmm, I am probably the > ONLY guy on this list that doesn't have a Word...Oh well, that's the > way the Symphony resonates... :) There ya go. You've found the thing that makes you unique. You've found that theme in the Symphony of the mailing list with which you resonate. You are Graveyard Greg, Angel of No Word. Or was that Demon of No Word? Hard to tell sometimes. - -Rob, Angel of Data Reduction, Elohite Servitor of Lightning in service to Gluttony ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:43:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Michael's Dissonance Conditions (Re: Angels and Dicey Words) - ---MarkDEddy wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/7/98 4:48:31 PM, graveyard_greg@yahoo.com writes: > > >---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> If you've hashed it out ahead of time, and it's part of over-all > >> tactics, it's probably fine. But yes, it may be for the best that > >> Michael stepped down! > > > >Any volunteers to tell Michael to step down? > >I sure ain't going to tell him! > >Graveyard Greg > > Except for one thing. He *already* stepped down. Voluntarily. He gave Laurence > command of the Host mainly because he's a hot warror and The War is a cold > war. > > Mark > Good point. I was thinking about stepping down from the Word of War, though. It could happen! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 21:37:13 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Writing Canon >>>(Actually, I'm not sure if that's why specific items of mine got cut -- SJ just didn't like some of them. Editors can be semi-arbitrary sometimes, as I mentioned before. But I'm reasonably happy with what did make it in, so I can't complain.)<<< Some got cut by SJ because he didn't like them (like the B'lixteroth, which I did like, actually, but oh well), some got cut by me because I had to cut something and I had to make editorial decisions about which items would add greater value to the game. I cut a number of my own creations at that point too, and someone else would probably have chosen a different set of artifacts to cut. That's the perk (and responsibility) of being an editor... - -David (maybe the Ark of the Covenant will make it into Pyramid) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:49:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Angels of Purity - ---rogue@ez-net.com wrote: > > I think I may have stumbled upon a little discrepancy.... > > In The Marches, page 5, Kronos is speaking to Baal and says "If the Word of > Purity had truly been abandoned, at least *one* of them should have Fallen > by now. But *no* Angel of Purity ever has." Ummm....maybe Kronos is trying to make a point about while Angels of Purity have fallen, they haven't fallen because of the Word supposedly being abandoned? Does that make any sense? > > P.S. Wait a sec... isn't this whole post kind of one big nitpick? D'oh... > > Nitpicking will sneak up on you when you least expect it.... :) Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:48:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Children of the Grigori - ---Scott Weber wrote: > > Okay, I finally bought the game yesterday, read through it, and then came > to the website and ultimately here... how ironic that the one part of the > game that I find the most interesting is the one part I can't seem to get > any important information on, as far as mechanics goes, etc. Children of > the Grigori. Yeah, I can't wait to get info on those guys...I'm sure that they are building it up to something cool...Am I right, guys? Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:57:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums - ---Walter Milliken wrote: > We need more Songs, I think -- at least my experience with GURPS mages > is that they're always wanting new spells (there are something like 800 > now), so if spell-learning is relatively easy in the game world, the > mage characters will spend lots of their points on spells. I think > something similar would happen with IN character and Songs. > > Songs have a high "coolness factor", but often limited applicability, so > players like them and they still don't tend to kill the game. > ---Walter > I get a kick out of new stuff, so YEAH, BABY! More songs!! And attunements, relics, skills, etc etc etc... I, too, also agree with expansion books vs Revised rulebooks...Nothing more disappointing than to have to buy an updated version of something...Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, etc etc etc _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 02:58:19 +0000 (GMT) From: "The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather" Subject: IN> words wonder if the word word could be a word. (follow that?) Starsurfer, wannabe angel of words ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:01:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits - ---Emily Dresner wrote: > > I ain't gonna elaborate on the need for a 2nd Edition In Nomine, and how > all the rules are not only scattered throughout the sourcebook, but > through nine additional books as well, where it is only getting worse. > And how, if you don't know what you're doing, it can take up to three > hours to make one character with the main rules. You can just close your > eyes and imagine the rant. :) > > - Em. :::> > > I can't disagree with yer logic, I just don't like buying revised rulebooks...But sooner or later, you just gotta, yes? Think AD&D...Though you can play with the old rules, one may encounter a "Huh?" Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:10:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Children of the Grigori - ---Bob the Dancing Monkey wrote: > > The grapevine says we'll be meeting the Children along with Eli in the > first book of the second cycle, which sounds like it might be delayed until > late this year. If you want to get in on that early, I'm guessing dollars > to Pocket Games that this particular little bit of content is going to show > up in Pyramid's Playtest arena, which'll out you $15 for a year of playtest > stuff as well as Pyramid's other advantages... Hmmm..if it's got In Nomine stuff, it'll be worth it.. Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:19:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits - ---Walter Milliken wrote: > > And at least we won't see "The Book of Cherubim" or "The Book of > Eli".... > > > ---Walter > And I am eternally grateful!!! But, if I see a compendium of all the Songs in one book called HYMNS OF THE SYMPONY, I will scream! :) Graveyard Greg - --who couldn't resist the "hymn" pun _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 22:19:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: IN> Discord >The players I GM tend to take a bunch of discords to start out >with. Due to the number of discords available and the fact that they all >give you three CP per level taken means that many discords are very >"cheap" gamewise. That is, they give you a lot of points without really >hindering you. > > If, for instance, you have a very high or very low >Perception, you can (due to the d666 bell curve) take several levels of >Celestial Blindness without it affecting your chance of perceiving >someone in celestial form. Whoa...wait a sec. First off, having ANY celestial discord at all means that your chances of getting Essence each day go from 100% to less than 100% ("several levels" would drop it to 50% or less)! Secondly, having ANY discord at all, for an angel, means that other angels will look down on you severely; for a demon, it means that Asmodeus' servitors can get blackmail on you or just turn you in--this goes DOUBLE if you have celestial discord. Just having ONE level of Angry, for example, means that you have to roll EVERY SINGLE TIME a stressful situation comes up, and one of those times you *will* fail it. I have a PC with 11 Will and Angry/2, and he has lost his cool and gotten in big trouble well over a dozen times. A GM who doesn't make Discord every bit as inconvenient as she can is not doing her job. She should NEVER LET THE CHARACTER FORGET that they have that Discord. I have players who've decided that they want to always play Calabim, because at least Asmodeus isn't against them for a little discord in that case, and that's a start. :) BTW, let me mention that I have one house rule for Discord. Celestial Discord counts *double* (i.e., Calabim can take half their CelForces in it, rounded up, and every level of Cel Discord gives you 6 points). But it's cumulative for the purpose of regaining Essence. IOW, if you have Gluttonous/2 and Lustful/2, you've only got a 2 in 6 chance of getting Essence that day. If you take Need, then you MUST fufill that need to get any Essence that day, even through Rites (!), and then you STILL have to roll against other Cel. Discord - excepting Need - to see if you regain Essence. To prevent abuse, I only give double points for the first 6 levels of Cel. Discord (not that I've had a player dumb enough to take that much! :) Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:31:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Words, and WHY YOU CAN'T CHANGE THEM - ---Robert Knop wrote: > There ya go. You've found the thing that makes you unique. You've > found that theme in the Symphony of the mailing list with which you > resonate. > > You are Graveyard Greg, Angel of No Word. > > Or was that Demon of No Word? Hard to tell sometimes. > > -Rob, Angel of Data Reduction, Elohite Servitor of Lightning in service > to Gluttony > > Well, whaddaya know! Although I need a Superior or the Seraphic Council to grant me the Word officially So, what do you guys say? Do I officially get it? BTW, I would be an Angel...what choir? I ain't tellin' Can anyone guess? Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:36:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> words - ---"The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather" wrote: > > > wonder if the word word could be a word. (follow that?) > > Starsurfer, wannabe angel of words > LOL! The Angel of Words? Special Rite: Get a new Word into Webster's Dictionary (+4)--hey, it's hard to get them in there! Special Rite: Learn a new word (+1) Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 00:18:58 -0500 From: "Ben Chism" Subject: Re: IN> Angels of Purity On Fri, 8 May 1998 rogue@ez-net.com wrote: > I think I may have stumbled upon a little discrepancy.... The way I read the text from the marches he was simply refering to those angels of Purity.. The Tsayadim...those who still hold the word of Purity as their own, not all the former angels of purity. Ben Chism ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:00:29 -0700 From: "Marcus Evenstar" Subject: Re: IN> Changing Nature of Words In a message written on 08MAY98 by Walter Millikin included the following snippet: >I'm sure there's a Demon of Twinkies(tm) running around somewhere, too. >I don't know if he's happy with what's happened to his Word or not.... Just what aspect were you concerned about? The way I see it, the problems this demon would have is in the chain of command as the human definitions of the word go all over the place. His Band would also be different for each Prince. If the word is concerned with the useless calories aspect, his boss would be Haagenti with his supervisor being the Djinn Demon of Junk Food. The DoT would be a Shedite ("Hey, these are really good. Light, fluffy and creamy. I guess I'll eat some more!"). If you're thinking of the artificiality factor, he works for Vapula, under the watchful eyes of the Impudite Demon of Semi-Nutritive Food Products. This one would be a Habbalite ("You deserve a treat for dealing with all that. Don't listen to those people. They just don't want you to enjoy life."). If the demon is representing the naughty aspect, he's under Andrealphus (as it were), working for the Balseraph Demon of One-Night Stands. One of the few male Lilim, he'd be blond, thin and apparently vacuous ("Oh, daddy, you're so butch. I'll do just _anything_ for a stud like you!"). Marcus "Mmmm... Twinkies!" Evenstar ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 01:21:19 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Angels of Purity >>>I think I may have stumbled upon a little discrepancy.... In The Marches, page 5, Kronos is speaking to Baal and says "If the Word of Purity had truly been abandoned, at least *one* of them should have Fallen by now. But *no* Angel of Purity ever has." In the Infernal Player's Guide, page 60, under 'Some Famous Impudites': "Vaphoron, a former Mercurian of Purity who became Outcast when he befriended etheral spirits, then Fell when Uriel was recalled, and is thus one one of a handful of former Servitors of Uriel in Hell." So, either Kronos is unaware of the existence of a 'handful' of Fallen Purity Angels (which is highly unlikely- this Kronos, not Saminga!), or we have a slight problem.<<< I have addressed this already, but here's the explanation: Angels of Purity had the option of keeping their Superior's Word when Uriel ascended to the upper heavens. Some of them did so, and have continued to do so for centuries. So long as they hold the Word of Purity, they cannot Fall. However, some Tsayadim lose faith and eventually relinquish their Word. Usually this is to swear service to another Archangel and take on a new Word. However, some Outcasts simply abandon the Word of Purity...by doing so, they lose the Word's dissonance conditions, but they also lose its protection. They cease to be Tsayadim, and become capable of Falling. These are very rare, however. - -David ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #768 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.