From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 13 20:44:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13559 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:44:14 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA12090 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:45:16 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:45:16 -0500 Message-Id: <199805140145.UAA12090@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #777 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 777 In this digest: Re: IN> In Nomine Online Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors Re: IN> Death Re: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) IN> Re: IN- Quantifying Superiors Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for the Songbook) Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors Re: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) IN> Offing Superiours IN> Books of Interest Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for the Songbook) Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for the Songbook) IN> The Reliquary Webpage! IN> Alternative Reading Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN> In Nomine Online Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Alternative Reading Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors Re: IN> Offing Superiours Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors Re: IN> IPG again! Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #774 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 May 98 16:54 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online >True enough... in one way, this is rather useful loophole, but in another >way, it's upsetting - In Nomine has taken sources from so many definitive >works about Angels and Demons, and compiled them without all that much >change. One could argue that were I to put up a MUSH with similar theme >that I would be stealing the creators' "intellectual property," as it >were... but at the same time, isn't so much of this stuff general public >knowledge? I mean, heck - I could change a few names here and there and end >up with a MUSH about Angels and Demons that was very much like In Nomine, >yet only drew on biblical resources, or other works of literature (Milton, >etc.) and therefore didn't infringe upon In Nomine's copyrights. I believe, as long as you don't use anything that's *specific* to In Nomine (game mechanics, descriptions of Superiors/Choirs/Bands, etc.), you'd be in the clear. Anything in the public domain is fair game, of course. But if you start using "Biblical" material *with* the changes that In Nomine has made (and there are a lot), then you're probably infringing. Many of the Superior names are from Biblical sources, but they are often twisted from the source material in various ways. Some of the Choirs and Bands are also from public sources, but not all, I believe, and a lot (or maybe all) of the specific behavior of each was added to the game version. In other words, as long as you design your own game mechanics, and gameworld background, no problem. "A game about angels and demons" isn't copyrightable. Specific characters, game mechanics, etc., are. All of the above should be taken with the understanding that I'm not a lawyer, though I do have some familiarity with copyright law as a sometime-author. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:02:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors At 12:07 PM -0500 5/13/98, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: >Just to earn my role "Lucifer's advocate/1" here - what is so terrible >about strong and clever PCs being able to kill an AA or DP? Everyone seems >to think it is so terrible. Lemme put my Archives Hat on... Okay, it's like this. Superiors are more than just mega-powerful celestials. Each and every one of them embodies a *Word*, a concept, an integral piece of *REALITY*. Andre isn't just this powerful Impudite with a sex-drive, he is *LUST*, incarnate. Powerlust, bloodlust, sexlust. You may be able to kill his vessel, but the *concept* that is *him* is not so easy to destroy. (Some think Laurence tried, with the Puritan movement...) And all who see him are going to feel that concept swirling around them, thinking of how *nice* it would feel to touch or be touched *there* and *there* and swim in the sensation... Jean is more than the ultimate techno-geek micromanager; he is *Lightning*, the wild as well as the tamed, ancient and awesome and terrible, watching the universe with impassive eyes as the aeons pass, occasionally providing the metaphorical "bolt (of inspiration) from the blue." See him pass and there is ozone in the air -- or is that in your soul? -- and you can feel the electric tingling of every hair on your body twitching just the least little bit upright. Superiors are primal forces, many of them, the great and powerful ones. They are entities to fear, to near-worship, to be ever so slightly unknowable. Even Saminga is the breath of the grave, of rotten things, of Entropy to which the corporeal realm is eventually doomed, the silence of all defeat and despair that slides around your soul like slick mud, thick with the stench of failure and Death, sucking you down -- dust thou art, to dust returneth, mortal men of mud. Letting a bunch of hotshots just walk up to a Superior and waste it pretty well shatters that concept. Which is why canon Superiors won't have "oh kill me now" stats. If you want to kill a Superior, it's a *campaign*, where you undermine them politically and on the corporeal plane, striking at their Word again and again until they are weakened enough to take on. And even then, if you can get one into celestial combat, expect to lose most of the hotshot attackers. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:04:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Death At 10:18 AM -0700 5/13/98, Alloni Kramer wrote: >More of those annoying questions of mine. > >Mortal death. What happens to the soul? Canon Doubt And Uncertainty, at this point in time. There is some indication that souls *arrive* in certain places in the celestial realms -- they are funneled in through the gates of Hades, past the Judgment angels there, or through gates of Heaven... I think there is some potential that there *are* ways for celestials to manipulate souls who are not protected by a body, though. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:42:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) At 10:40 AM -0400 5/13/98, MarkDEddy wrote: >In a message dated 5/12/98 3:15:00 PM, shadowcat@caravan.nomad.net writes: >>On Mon, 11 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >>> (Me, I want In Nomine XXXenophile... Seraphim in Celtic Knots!) >> >> Alright, now that I have HIS image in my head... What are the IN >>stats for Petite Morte? Or demoness from the Family Curse what band is >>she, or...? > >Didn't you know? Petit Mort (of XXXenophile fame) is actually the Anime >Massive Deformed form of Dominic... But without the sickle, and with more eyes. Stop me before I attempt to ascii-draw that!!! The demoness from Family Curse... Is a Fallen Elohite of Purity who never re-pledged, of course! (In Nomine Fluffy Demons!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:01:41 PDT From: "Bartholomew Hammerly" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Quantifying Superiors >From: Walter Milliken >>*I* find it terrible that canon Superiors can squash any PC they can >>reach. (And Superiors have awful long "arms".) > >Rule #1 of gaming (unless you're playing Amber...): there's *always* >someone who can squash the PCs. The trick is to avoid having this come >up (at least in fact). Solution? Don't piss your superiors off. If you piss off some other superior, have your superior deeply on your side. If you're a demon, you're screwed, so don't piss anyone off. Apt synopsis? > >The thing to do when an enemy Superior shows up (at least in a bad mood) >is *run away*.... Not doing so would constitute terminal stupidity, in >my game. Yep. > >Fortunately, Superiors have better things to do than run around swatting >annoying PC midges, and in many cases may have better things to do with >PCs than destroy them... turn them to *their* side, for example. Bart Hammerly Calabim of Fire "Time is the fire in which we burn." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:17:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for the Songbook) Great Greg! Welcome to the club! Here's your <> membership card, I'm sure you'll notice its already got your photo on, Eli Iwill be be to actually *take* the photo in a decade or three and send it to me, heres your <> choir attunement, let me know if you need anything else, all right? Enosh Malakite of Creation ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:23:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> Eli > He took it as his project in order to gain extra credit? > (I read short stories by Heinlein once. It's an unhealthy thing to do.) > > Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. > -- > Terrifingly enough, I'm pretty sure yo're right Kevin...I remember that story, and all of a sudden the word "prophet" rings in my mind Enosh Malakite of Creation ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:34:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors Excellent, well-written reply. I'm impressed to no end; my understanding of superiors just improved, and I'm not even involved in this thread (well, I am *now*. But I wasn't a sentance ago). Kudos! Enosh Malakite of Creation can often be heard singing "If I only had a Word!" > > Lemme put my Archives Hat on... Okay, it's like this. Superiors are > more than just mega-powerful celestials. Each and every one of them > embodies a *Word*, a concept, an integral piece of *REALITY*. > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:01:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) At 04:42 PM 5/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 10:40 AM -0400 5/13/98, MarkDEddy wrote: >>In a message dated 5/12/98 3:15:00 PM, shadowcat@caravan.nomad.net writes: >>>On Mon, 11 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>> >>>> (Me, I want In Nomine XXXenophile... Seraphim in Celtic Knots!) >>> >>> Alright, now that I have HIS image in my head... What are the IN >>>stats for Petite Morte? Or demoness from the Family Curse what band is >>>she, or...? >> >>Didn't you know? Petit Mort (of XXXenophile fame) is actually the Anime >>Massive Deformed form of Dominic... > >But without the sickle, and with more eyes. Stop me before >I attempt to ascii-draw that!!! > >The demoness from Family Curse... Is a Fallen Elohite of Purity who >never re-pledged, of course! (In Nomine Fluffy Demons!) > How about the demoness from "Demon-stration of affection"? I know violence doesn't solve all problems... But it sure feels good! Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:11:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Offing Superiours First, I wish to apologise for using the word "terrible" three times in a two paragraph post. That was a terribly silly thing for me to do. I feel terrible about it. Hopefully, it wasn't a terrible strain for the nitpickers and anglishphiles on the list. ;^) > Date: Wed, 13 May 98 16:13 EDT > From: Walter Milliken > Subject: Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors > > >Just to earn my role "Lucifer's advocate/1" here - what is so terrible > >about strong and clever PCs being able to kill an AA or DP? Everyone seems > >to think it is so terrible. > > Because these are supposed to be people who've survived since ages ago, > and they have plenty of enemies. Having J. Random PC Group walk up and > blow away a Superior (even with a *lot* of preparation) just doesn't > make sense in that context. Otherwise there'd be a *lot* more "churn" > among the Princes of Hell. > > In other words, it breaks the Suspenders of Disbelief/6.... (Working up to Lucifer's Advocate/2) The standard fantasy settings have ancient dragons running around all over the place, despite the fact that they tend to go around picking fights with highly organized bipeds and sleep on a giant lure for greedy agressive types. Retalition is never effective except in legend or if PCs intevene. No one has ever complained in my hearing. Most RPGs do in fact assume the PCs are special. That they can kill Fixandranthaxus the incredibly ancient and even more incredibly irritable dragon despite the fact that thousands of others have tried and failed. They can successfully infiltrate the Rouge Xenocidal Cidi Death fleet, even though crack Space Patrol agents have failed. They can destroy the One True Ring, get their tax forms filled out properly, or even topple MicroSoft - they're the PCs, after all. They should be able to do the important and cool things. You suspend disbelief a little to assume this ragtag group is capable of outdoing the best of the best, but it's perfectly in-genre, and usually a lot of fun. Why is this kind of thinking wrong in IN? > > You *could* do it, of course, but you'd have to change the background to > fit -- most DPs probably wouldn't survive more than a few decades, if > ganging up on them were possible, and probably most AAs wouldn't outlast > a century. (Actually, a more volotile set of DPs in Hell might be a good thing, plot wise. More backstabbing and powermongering for PC demons.) Remeber that even if they're not invulnerable, DPs are very badass, and very cautious. Consider how long Stalin might have stayed in power if he were immortal, capable of ripping a Panzer division apart with his bare hands, and had a secret sanctum he reformed at when killed... As for AAs, I don't see why they would have a high turnover rate, although they might be bit more cautious as well. Right now, they can be killed by other AAs and DPs, but it almost never happens, because the AAs don't fight amonst themselves, and DPs are afraid of the consequences of offing one. Similar constraints could apply to lesser celestial's actions. Or consider Superiors in the context of governments. One normal person is theoretically capable of toppling a government, and large groups do so often. This hasn't stopped some governments from lasting hundreds of years. > >*I* find it terrible that canon Superiors can squash any PC they can > >reach. (And Superiors have awful long "arms".) > > Rule #1 of gaming (unless you're playing Amber...): there's *always* > someone who can squash the PCs. I must update my rulebook. It had something silly about having fun it that spot. :) The general principle irks me as well, to be honest. Why must there always be something capable of squashing the PCs? Can't they have an enjoyable game without one? > The trick is to avoid having this come up (at least in fact). In IN, the PCs have their collective noses rubbed in this fact every time they interect with an AA or DP. Since the PCs and many NPCs can summon these beings without a huge effort, that is quite some trick. > The thing to do when an enemy Superior shows up (at least in a bad mood) > is *run away*.... Yes. This irks me. The PCs have absolutely no chance if they choose to stand up to the Superior. None. No matter how buff they are. No matter how well prepared and clever and numerous they are. No matter how righteous they are. No chance. None. Smacks too much of real life. > Not doing so would constitute terminal stupidity, in my game. What I don't understand about your game is how the PCs survive the time between the peeved Superior arriving and them getting away. Surely Baal needs less than a round to slaughter every PC Celestial in his reach? >:) > Fortunately, Superiors have better things to do than run around swatting > annoying PC midges, Doesn't this trivialize everything the PCs do? > and in many cases may have better things to do with > PCs than destroy them... turn them to *their* side, for example. That only works for some PCs, and some Superiors. If the PCs pull a brilliant coup and enrage Saminga, what do you do? It stretches those suspenders a mite if he doesn't come gunning for them. Just workin' on the role, Martinl (Now I need someone else to argue this side, since Devil's Advocate/3 requires arguing both sides...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:18:15 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Books of Interest Here's my big list of IN-related books. I wrote it up for my campaign, and I was inspired to post when I saw someone else post something similar. - -- Fiction Alighieri, Dante * The Inferno Okay, it's probably ethically wrong to counsel against reading one of the masterpieces of Italian literature. But I don't know Italian, and I doubt you do, either, and I haven't read any particularly inspiring translations of The Divine Comedy. So there. Blish, James * Black Easter/The Day After Judgement These two novels are collected in the single volume entitled The Devil's Day. Probably the best description of goetic magic in all of SF; definitely worth reading for the insight into the sorcerous mindset. * A Case of Conscience A Catholic priest must determine the theological status of a newly discovered alien species. Weird and excellent, with an amazing ending. Brust, Steven * To Reign In Hell Paradise Lost retold from a different perspective. This is a fairly okay the-devil-was-right novel, but it suffers a lot in comparison to the real Paradise Lost. Brust is a very good writer, but he just can't compete with Milton. If you haven't read PL, though, I strongly recommend it -- there won't be disappointing echoes to mess with your enjoyment of a finely-wrought piece of work. Haldeman, Linda * Esbae: A Winter's Tale A workmanlike effort; the bright spots are the depictions of sorcery and Asmodeus, demon of wisdom. If you find it at a used book store, pick it up, but don't bother going on a hunt for it. (And no, as far as I know, Linda Haldeman is no relation to Joe Haldeman, author of The Forever War.) Kilworth, Gary D. * Angel A rogue angel comes from Heaven to hunt down demons hiding on Earth. Two cops have to stop it, since the angel doesn't seem to have much care for any bystanders between it and the demons. The prose is a bit clunky, but this is a novel which could easily take place in an IN game, and it is a decent description of how an Elohite might fall. L'engle, Madeleine * A Wrinkle in Time * The Wind in the Door * A Swiftly-Tilting Planet These are children's books, but that is no reason to dismiss them. They have huge scope, vivid color, and a keen appreciation of human nature. Lots of discussion about the nature of love and the struggle between good and evil, without ever being preachy. If you haven't read these yet, you are missing out on a treat. Lewis, C.S. * The Screwtape Letters If you are only going to read one thing before playing a demon, this is it. The Letters are a collection of advice sent from an elder demon to a younger about how to best corrupt mankind. The armies of the Pit have never had a better spokescreature than Screwtape. * The Great Divorce The nameless narrator of The Great Divorce (implied to be Lewis himself) is led on a phantasmagoric tour of Heaven and Hell, and is instructed in the mysteries of Heaven by George MacDonald. Well worth reading for its otherworldly feel and imagery (including a bus line running between Heaven and Hell). * Out of the Silent Planet * Perelandra * That Hideous Strength These three novels comprise Lewis's Space trilogy, which (among other things) is a speculation about the theological status of alien races. I haven't read this yet, but it's on my to-read pile, as I have heard many recommendations of it. Lisle, Holly * Sympathy for the Devil * Hell on High * The Devil and Dan Cooley A woman prays to God to give the damned a second chance, and He does. Specifically, the Lord permits the legions of Hell to enter North Carolina and do as they will. Chaos ensues. This is excellent light fantasy, and well worth reading if you don't feel up to the mental effort Lewis or Blish demand. The first of these novels is noticeably better than the second two, but all are still solidly-written. A definite recommendation. MacAvoy, R.A. * Damiano * Damiano's Lute * Raphael These books are collected in A Trio for Lute. Damiano Delstrego is a sorcerer and musician in Renaissance Italy, with the angel Raphael and the fallen angel Lucifer contending for his soul. Colorful and effective fantasy. Milton, John * Paradise Lost The English-language epic. There's really nothing more to be said. Go out and read it; it's even worth the effort to read it aloud. If you are too lazy to read the whole thing, then at least read the first two books. This is where Lucifer holds council with the fallen angels in Hell, in one of the most amazing scenes ever written. Go out and read it. Moorcock, Michael * Behold the Man Jungian psychology, existentialism, time travel, and the Incarnation. Michael Moorcock is probably the one of the only writers could pull it off. What exactly he pulled off I'll leave as a surprise, though it really doesn't matter: even if you figure out the ending the journey there is rewarding enough to justify reading this book. * The War Hound and the World's Pain During the Thirty Years' War, the Devil hires a German mercenary to find the Holy Grail. The book gets steadily less predictable, moving from a simple McGuffin hunt into a meditation on the nature of God, faith, evil, and redemption. Definitely worth checking out. Niven, Larry and Pournelle, Jerry * Inferno Niven and Pournelle observed that Dante took the opportunity to stick his enemies in Hell when he wrote The Inferno, and decided that it was a shtick worth redoing. The result is interesting mainly as a look into the mindset of a portion of '70s SF fandom; their politics have not aged gracefully. Russel, Mary Doria * The Sparrow This book has a setup similar to A Case of Conscience, in that it's another Catholic-first-contact book, but the emotional and ethical terrain explored is very different. Worth reading. Shinn, Sharon * Archangel A science fantasy that does for Christianity what Zelazny's Lord of Light did for Hinduism. Well, maybe it's not that good, but it is definitely a cut or three above the bog-standard psychics-and-cats routine that passes for science fantasy these days. It's even a cut or three above the psychics-and-supermen routine that passed for science fantasy in the old days. Nonfiction I've read rather less nonfiction since theology is a rather dry subject. But there's still a fair amount of stuff worth looking into. Armstrong, Karen * A History of God An account of how the monotheist religions -- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam -- have conceived their God, and how this conception has changed and altered through the centuries. It's rather dry reading, but what can you expect of a book that summarizes some four millenia of theology in four hundred-some pages? Lewis, C.S. * The Four Loves The phrase "God is love" has been worn out through repetition, and people are still rather fuzzy by what is meant by that sentence. Lewis tries to puzzle out what exactly is meant by love. This probably makes it a better APG than the APG itself. * Mere Christianity Lewis explains the points of doctrine held in common by all the branches of Christianity; this was determined by getting a Catholic, an Anglican, a Methodist and a Presbyterian preacher to vet the book. Worth reading. * A Mind Awake A bunch of epigrams from Lewis's letters and books. Useful for the angel that needs theological one-liners to counter the demons' use of Sartre and Camus. * Miracles C.S. Lewis attempts to prove the possibility of spiritual intervention in the world. This is largely irrelevant to IN, where celestial intervention is the whole point of the game. * The Problem of Pain This is an amazing book. It successfully manages to reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of an omnipotent, benevolent God, and the reasoning is very close -- he only appeals to intuition when setting up premises. You should read this. * The Weight of Glory A collection of sermons. Nothing special, but they are quite entertaining reading. Multiple... * The King James Version of the Bible There are plenty of translations of the Bible, but very few of them have the music of the KJV. Along with Paradise Lost, this is the thing that will teach you how to speak like a being from the celestial planes. * The Apocrypha The Church fathers were probably quite right about letting God kick these off the table, but it contains a lot of extremely gameable material, including the fall of the Grigori and lots of stuff about Raphael. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:39:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for the Songbook) - ---Titus 3 11 wrote: > > Great Greg! Welcome to the club! > Here's your > < cards with names and numbers scrawled on the back dropping to the floor. > he takes one laminated white card, beaming, and hands it to Greg>> > membership card, I'm sure you'll notice its already got your photo on, Eli > Iwill be be to actually *take* the photo in a decade or three and send it > to me, heres your > < ol' Cyberpunk concealment codes), his back and front jeans pockets, the > pockets on his police vest, and finally, the breast pocket on his shirt, > withdrawing a glowing sphere. The sphere casts a white light across the > room in brief flickers as it is extended towards Greg and slides > noiselessly into his chest, through his skin, and briefly can be seen > beating in time with his corporeal heart>> > choir attunement, let me know if you need anything else, all right? > Enosh > Malakite of Creation > > LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! Gregarius AKA Graveyard Greg - --Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:47:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for the Songbook) - ---MarkDEddy wrote: > >And thus, Mark has helped me discover my choir! THANKS, DUDE!!! > > > >Graveyard Greg > >--Malakite of Creation, Angel of Comic Books > You're welcome. I think. ;) > > And the appropriateness of the Word of Comic Books assigned to a Malakite of > Creation, I will leave to the rest of the list. > > Mark > Yes, because if they can figure out a valid reason for a Malakite being the Angel of Comic Books, then who am I to complain? Hey, wait a minute! Wasn't my word about NOT having a word? Somebody help me out! Gregarius AKA Graveyard Greg - --Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:58:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> The Reliquary Webpage! ATTENTION!!! My In Nomine Web Page has been built! It's called The Reliquary! The address is: http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/everquest/46/ Be gentle! :) Gregarius AKA Graveyard Greg - --Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:59:48 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Alternative Reading >>>I suggest people look at the IN digest archives before we get this thread going again -- there was a *long* period of people posting just this sort of thing. (Also "mood music" for IN games.) Maybe that stuff should be collected by some volunteer for posting on the INC web pages?<<< Yes, and as Moriah, Beth's predecessor, pointed out, just about any lyrics can conceivably be tied to some Superior or In Nomine theme, thus the thread can go on _forever_.... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:56:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions - ---Pee Kitty wrote: > > On Tue, 12 May 1998, Graveyard Greg wrote: > > > Malphas..who? > > Mark Alaimo is an actor who's played various characters on Star Trek, > mainly Cardassians. He's currently Gul Ducat (IIRC), a reoccuring > character on DS9. Ah, Gul Dukat! What a bastich.... :) Oh, by the way..I said Robert DeNiro as Malphas? I meant Al Pachino! Sorry! Graveyard Greg - --Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:07:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online - ---Scott Weber wrote: > Next... and this is the big question... does anybody here know what SJG's > policy is about MUSHes? I'm hoping SJG's policy > toward online gaming is also understanding... I would sure like to see a > good In Nomine MUSH pop up somewhere. Heck, maybe I'll build it myself, if > it's allowable... :) > > It isn't allowed. Why? I haven't read the replies yet, but let's see if I can understand the reasons. Right now they are trying to get the rights for Novels, Comics, and stuff. That's why we haven't seen any books yet--they don't have the rights for that stuff yet! I will wager that will extend to MUSHes. Am I right? Heck, maybe they just don't LIKE that online stuff... ;) Graveyard Greg - --Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:05:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Eli - ---Casca wrote: > Heck, maybe Eli is God. That's MY theory! Of course, I also believe that Dominic is possibly a Balseraph, and that Janus and Valefor are the same entity. Go figure... Graveyard Greg - --Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:30:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Alternative Reading At 7:59 PM -0400 5/13/98, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>I suggest people look at the IN digest archives before we get this >thread going again -- there was a *long* period of people posting just >this sort of thing. (Also "mood music" for IN games.) Maybe that stuff >should be collected by some volunteer for posting on the INC web pages?<<< > >Yes, and as Moriah, Beth's predecessor, pointed out, just about any lyrics >can conceivably be tied to some Superior or In Nomine theme, thus the >thread can go on _forever_.... And ever and ever and ever... Please, folks, if you want a list of stuff -- compile it *off* this list? Do Email to one central person and then email it to me (or Em?) and it can go on the INC. But not the list. Not unless you're going to put up the lyrics on your own page (for those of us who don't know them) so we can go and admire them. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:27:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Lemme put my Archives Hat on... Okay, it's like this. Superiors are > more than just mega-powerful celestials. Each and every one of them > embodies a *Word*, a concept, an integral piece of *REALITY*. > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor Nice hat, Beth! Gregarius - --Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:37:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Offing Superiours - ---Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: > > First, I wish to apologise for using the word "terrible" three times in a > two paragraph post. That was a terribly silly thing for me to do. I > feel terrible about it. Hopefully, it wasn't a terrible strain for the > nitpickers and anglishphiles on the list. ;^) > You are forgiven. ;) >If the PCs pull a > brilliant coup and enrage Saminga, what do you do? It stretches those > suspenders a mite if he doesn't come gunning for them. > > Just workin' on the role, > Martinl I have a good number of answers for your question, but the best one is: They are Beneath His Notice. He figures his servitors will kill them off, so why sully his hands? Gregarius - --Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:34:42 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors At 05:02 PM 13/05/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 12:07 PM -0500 5/13/98, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: >>Just to earn my role "Lucifer's advocate/1" here - what is so terrible >>about strong and clever PCs being able to kill an AA or DP? Everyone seems >>to think it is so terrible. > >Lemme put my Archives Hat on... Okay, it's like this. Superiors are >more than just mega-powerful celestials. Each and every one of them >embodies a *Word*, a concept, an integral piece of *REALITY*. > >Andre isn't just this powerful Impudite with a sex-drive, he is *LUST*, >incarnate. Powerlust, bloodlust, sexlust. You may be able to kill his >vessel, but the *concept* that is *him* is not so easy to destroy. >(Some think Laurence tried, with the Puritan movement...) And all >who see him are going to feel that concept swirling around them, >thinking of how *nice* it would feel to touch or be touched *there* >and *there* and swim in the sensation... > >Jean is more than the ultimate techno-geek micromanager; he is *Lightning*, >the wild as well as the tamed, ancient and awesome and terrible, watching >the universe with impassive eyes as the aeons pass, occasionally providing >the metaphorical "bolt (of inspiration) from the blue." See him pass >and there is ozone in the air -- or is that in your soul? -- and you >can feel the electric tingling of every hair on your body twitching >just the least little bit upright. > >Superiors are primal forces, many of them, the great and powerful ones. >They are entities to fear, to near-worship, to be ever so slightly >unknowable. > >Even Saminga is the breath of the grave, of rotten things, of Entropy >to which the corporeal realm is eventually doomed, the silence of all >defeat and despair that slides around your soul like slick mud, thick >with the stench of failure and Death, sucking you down -- dust thou >art, to dust returneth, mortal men of mud. > > > >Letting a bunch of hotshots just walk up to a Superior and waste it >pretty well shatters that concept. > >Which is why canon Superiors won't have "oh kill me now" stats. > >If you want to kill a Superior, it's a *campaign*, where you >undermine them politically and on the corporeal plane, striking >at their Word again and again until they are weakened enough to >take on. And even then, if you can get one into celestial combat, >expect to lose most of the hotshot attackers. > >--emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor >GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > >Yes but then again there's nothing wrong with getting another superior to off said Promce or Archangel, in fact that would be the safest way to go. Remember that it was Vader and not Luke who slew the Emperor at the end of Return of the Jedi. Simon, Demon Prince of Pearls > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:52:40 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> IPG again! Now I know we thought this was put to rest but i just bought it so there. Well, what can I say, but that it is totally, utterly, mother-oops not allowed to swear on list, well you get the idea. You all did a bang up job you In Nomine persons, and finally I see my favorite demon-angel analogy in the American colonies, British Empire thing (that was my idea, you stole it! expect to hear from my lawyers soon). And the band symbols, sorry angel fans, but they rule to the rapture, especially the calabim symbol, I just love Calabim, I am a Calabite! But enough of sounding like a video game magazine praising the next hyped up game. Good, especially the demonic mindset thing, if anything will convince churchmen that Steve jackson isn't encouraging devil worship, this is it, and playing a bad guy with feelings and motivations is a lot more fin then mindless evil. Reminds me of another Simon from Die Hard with a Vengeance, when he said 'I'm a soldier not a monster'. I'll cap off now, but just one question, if I call that number on the cards, will a soldier of Hell pick up? Simon, Demon prince of Pearls "You cut a deal with Malebolgia!" corpse of Al Simmons, Spawn Animated ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:53:49 +0100 From: Roland Ward Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #774 > Now I'm not saying it *will* happen, but introducing numbers for > superiors means that certain players not so much interested in > roleplaying and more interested in big numbers will have *goals* to shoot > for and can leave that icky roleplaying in the dirt altogether. > > This scenario also assumes a GM lacking two brain cells to rub together. > Then again, if he's playing with munchkins by choice... "I must this game more than any other a GM can always say - "it's not you're destiny to do that, what? you're going to argue with God? I don't think you'll find stats for him..." In fact I have used the "destiny" arguement to bring together PC's into an adventure in the first place "You don't know why, but you suddenly feel you know the stanger sitting in the corner of the bar etc..." Of course a overly-stong GM (this is MY game and you're going to DO what I want) can abuse as much as a munchkin... Roland :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roland Ward Glasgow Scotland, U.K. rward@cqm.co.uk brought to you by Red Hat Linux... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #777 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.