From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jun 9 17:24:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21489 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:24:44 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA11506 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:08:39 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:08:39 -0500 Message-Id: <199806092208.RAA11506@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #816 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, June 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 816 In this digest: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Newbie Nattering Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia IN> Campaign Seed - Demons Against Death! IN> Communism=Evil? Re: IN> Newbie Nattering Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Re: IN> Re: Word Forces (and Tether construction) Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Sorcery and Soldiers of God Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia IN> Thether Thoughts Plus IN> Re: IN- Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia IN> Re: IN- Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Re: IN> Thether Thoughts Plus What about Gump? Re: (was IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia) Re: What about Gump? Re: (was IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - IN> Communism dead? Re: What about Gump? Re: (was IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Re: IN> Newbie Nattering Re: IN> Communism=Evil? Re: IN> Newbie Nattering Re: IN> Tethers for who (Re: Word Forces) Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Re: What about Gump? Re: (was IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia IN> More Bright Lilim Attunements... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:00:11 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts At 4:33 AM -0400 6/9/98, Matthias M¸ller wrote: >If I read the IN rulebook right, a human keeps the memories of the >possession when a Shedite leaves it. So, he remembers the demonic >allies the Shedite visited and possibly their hideouts ? Sounds rather >risky, do most Shedites dispose of their hosts after wearing them ? Or corrupt them so much that nobody trusts what they say anymore. Just getting them hooked on a hallucinagin would probably do it. But yes, a Shedite who contacts his buddies and goes to demonic hideouts, safehouses or Tethers... has just created a potential security leak. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 11:55:28 -0400 From: Afterburner Subject: Re: IN> Newbie Nattering >eg. (Sorry for always using angelic examples.. it's just been mostly what I >had been thinking of) Eh, don't worry about it. Call me old fashioned and hopelessly out of step with the times, but I have no interest in either playing a demon or running a demon-based campaign. "Evil" simply doesn't appeal to me on any level. (Well, okay, maybe on *one* level. I can easily see an all-demon game turn into a Paranoia-esque backstabbing, treacherous, plot-and-counterplot free-for-all... ) >I dunno if those help much as examples. Actually, they did give me some further ideas. :) >ps. I liked the idea about the demons having openly subverted the earth! You >could have huge neon billboards all over the place advertising Shal-Mari and >stuff! I was thinking more along the lines of: "Earth is now a reflection of Hell. Humans are rounded up and tortured hideously before dying. Often they're tortured hideously and not *allowed* to die. The land itself has been subverted to reflect the twisted Diabolical influence. Demons openly walk the Earth and Angels openly attempt to fight the Demonic presence. There are a few outposts left of untainted Earth, but these are scattered and, for the most part, unable to cooperate on any large scale (other than providing safe havens, occasional supplies, etc)." Essentially, it would be the ultimate post-holocaust setting. (And I confess to having a weakness for that particular genre.) For extra pathos, I'm contemplating making it so where God has ordered the Angels to withdraw. So the only Angels left on earth will be Outcasts (including a few Outcast Archangels -- Michael would be a good candidate, I think). But that might be TOO much angst and goth drama. :) Wheels within Wheels. Afterburner Malakite of Anti-Spammers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 12:03:17 -0400 From: Afterburner Subject: Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia >1 Non-mainline religeous leaders are evil and probably >in league with Satan; Religious leaders, period, are usually portrayed as, at best, hopelessly backwards. At worst, they're conniving hypocrites. This is especially true for Fundamentalist and/or Evangelical Christian religious leaders. _The Apostle_ was "shocking" for the fact that the main character was a sympathetic preacher for a Fundamentalist faith, and the plot centered around his attempt to redeem himself in God's eyes (or what he felt to be redemption in God's eyes). Robert Duvall wrote it, directed it, starred in it, and (most telling) funded it. This is because none of the major studios would touch it. >2 Absolute states like Monarchies are fun places where everyone is happy; Fantastic fiction is filled with benevolent monarchies. >3 Socialism is Evil; A good message. More folks should learn it. Afterburner Malakite of Anti-Spammers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:12:20 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia At 10:03 AM -0500 6/9/98, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Peter Frederick wrote: > >> Makes me wonder what drugs the Disney writers are on so I can stay >> well away from them. > >Wondering about the *Disney* writers is a little irrelevant, since >"Anastasia" isn't a Disney cartoon. It also has a heroine who I like better than 90% of Disney ones. She actually does in the bad guy, unlike every Disney heroine I can recall off the top of my head, who has to be rescued by her hero, and the *hero* does the killing of the baddie. Go, Anna! Further, I believe it's based on a *play*. (A musical one? Dunno. But I'm 90% sure that I saw a "based on" in the credits -- and there's a copycat cheapo version with the exact same name, so whatever it came from *has* to be public domain.) (Besides, it's fashionable to sniff at communism now. It kind of died off.) Hm. Where was I going here. Probably something to do with Creationers... Lilith probably would have a mixed opinion of the thing, of course -- it overthrew the government, but the rest of it was this girl just walking away from what *everyone* intended for her, from the choice to go to town instead of to work, to the choice to elope. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:10:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> Campaign Seed - Demons Against Death! << This comes from an online conversation I had with Eric last night. This is what happens when we're allowed to talk alone for any extended period of time, I think. :) No more! NO MORE! >> ********************************************************************* Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout Aidsism, Speechism, Taxism, Bornism, Kidism, Actism This-ism, that-ism, ism ism ism All we are saying is give death a chance All we are saying is give death a chance - - Popular Jingle in Shal-Mari "We have campaigns to cure Aids, Cancer, Impotence, Abuse, Free Speech (for and against), Stupidity, and the really ugly hairy warts that are on Saminga's ass. But there is no doubting it, the one thing we don't have is a cure of Death. Look at these numbers! It has a 100% mortality rate! It's the leading killer in all age groups! And no one is doing _a thing about it_. The problem is just being ignored by our industry leaders. We shouldn't be lying down and letting Death just have it's way! We should be fighting this awful plague!" - - Media Commercial Advertisement for People Against Death There's a new Media campaign, and it's sweeping the Principalities. Everyone is walking around wearing sporty little black ribbons pinned to their coats. There is public outcry against this horrible, ignored plague which is striking mankind, and yes, even demonkind. There is support for the Campaign Against Death. Demons Against Death, it originally was, but it's been brought Earthside by well placed and overeager agents, and it's starting to spread among Mankind. And worse, it's starting to catch among the Angels. One day, there was this Balseraph of the Media, and he was sitting at his desk in Perdition staring out of his nice high rise office window at the glittering silver buildings and pondering his existence while chewing idly on a pencil. He'd had a pretty good job working for Nybbas - a few distinctions, a Word, and a handful of flunkies to scare the fear of Lucifer into. He'd had his highs and his lows, he'd been a good servitor, but right now, he just needed a new project to work on. He'd done it all in the last 100 years, and it was all, frankly, getting a little old. But there he was, surfing the net, his mind wandering over his current project, when came across a web page (http://www.gargaro.com/ribbons.html"). There was this vast array of very popular Ribbon Campaigns laid out before him. There was a ribbon for Aids Awareness, for Free Speech, for Prostate Cancer, for the protection of Animals and Women and the goo that grows underneath your fingernails. He'd always been mildly annoyed by the Ribbon Campaigns, and the Habbalah in the office just down the hall which held Word in particular. And he was thinking, "Man, they have a ribbon for everything, the crazy bastards." His mind started working. He was wondering if he could take advantage of this, since it seemed to be doing pretty well with the populance. It looked like every campaign known to man - and demon - had a little colored piece of ribbon attached to it. Except one. He slithered up away from his desk and went to go pound on the door down the hall. "Jonesy?" He called in to the Habbalah after he dodged the manditory flying office equipment, aimed poorly at his head. "Do I have a proposition for you..." Three Weeks Later. Between jingles, posters, so-called Celebrity support, commercial spots on TV, and being printed on the back of 2 liter bottles of suspiciously carbonated carmelly beverages, everyone in Shal-Mari is talking about how this Death plague is everywhere. People have come out on television to tell horrible stories about loved ones who had been struck down by this terrible Death plague. Some say that even Prince Kobal himself has been spotted in theaters sporting a neatly pinned black ribbon on his tastily chosen bright neon orange sport jacket. Everyone's talking about how the top dogs of Hell have been tacitly ignoring this problem, except some rumblings from Saminga, but no one would ever have _him_ on tv. They pay taxes, they pay rent, they put up with crime and the Game at the same time, so someone, somewhere, should be working on a cure. Why the Hell aren't they? Literally? What are our Princes doing? Vapulan's top Techologists had spots on television where they carefully explained this problem in detail, with pictures. Fingers were pointed at the common causes of Death in the newspapers - Fate, the War, Nightmares, and several very well dressed representatives denied these rumors before committees on prime time. The Game put their own spin, pointing out that only Renegades acquired a bad case of Death, so maybe that was the cause of the terrible disease - has anyone researched it? This was all well and good, just another wild fad sweeping Hell, until the normal caste of highly placed Earthbound servitors started wearing little black ribbons on their jackets, and passing them out to humans, explaining their significance. And worse, it's becoming _popular_ among the humans. Why isn't anyone doing anything about all this Death? You'd think that, with all the advances in Medical Technology these last few years, that someone would have had a cure by now. Where are all our tax dollars going? We keep spending more on the military, and people keep dying! Horrors! And it's come to pass that, yes, Angels may very well a leading cause of death among Demonkind. There are late night TV specials that discuss this very thing in Shal-Mari, and people showing up with bad life experiences on demonic talk shows. Videos are being released, 'Death, You, and How to Survive It'. Books are being published. This is a plague which can't just be passed up. Something must be done. What about all those Malakim, going around killing demons who are minding their own business? What about those overly enthusiastic servitors of the Sword? Does Death have a 100% mortality rate among them? Does anyone want to go find out? It just might be that Angels are just as subseptible to Death as Demons are, even as Humans are, and that they too need to find a cure. What are the _Archangels_ doing about this? Does anyone know? And the Archangels were passing it on as just another silly fad, another diabolical plot. Just ignore it, they told their servitors. And if they are wearing those stupid black ribbons, kill them twice for good measure. The last thing we need is a Hell fad up here. And this seemed to work until Novalis showed up one day wearing a black ribbon... [Fill in Superior Reactions Here] Em says: Oh, you want a game seed from this, do you? Why, it's simple. Just have them find the source of all this Ribboning and kill them off. Besides, the Balseraph and Habbalah have probably moved on to bigger and better projects by now.... - - Em, Happy Fun Balseraph! Look, I have my own Ribbon! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 12:16:10 -0400 From: John J Maurer Subject: IN> Communism=Evil? At 10:20 AM 6/9/98 -0400, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > A funny thing (and a source of possible plots) came >up about a year ago. They finally released most of the >transcripts from the 'Red Scare' era trials. The interesting >thing was that many (not all) of those convicted were, in >fact, guilty as hell. What do you mean by "guilty as hell." Do you mean they were communists? Last I checked we had a freedom of association amendment in our constitution. In America you CAN be a communist if you so desire. Do you mean they were spies for Russia? That they were selling secrets? These are more serious charges. Remember that the problem with the McCarthy hearings was that it did not matter if you were CONVICTED, merely being CHARGED was sufficient to ruin reputations. As far as what has been "done" with communism, I feel I must agree with earlier posts that say you can't blame the philosophy for things done in its name. I can take any philosophy/religion and point out attrocities done. Communism works great in a world where no one is selfish.. . Speaks "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." - -G.K. Chesterton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:32:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Newbie Nattering At 10:19 AM -0400 6/9/98, Afterburner wrote: > So far, my only problem is this: All of the potential scenarios I >can envision tend to be either (A) paramilitary/special forces scenarios; >or (B) espionage/cold war type scenarios. Focus on humans... Drop your angels in an area and say, "Clean this up." Don't let them do easy answers, for the most part. (Why, yes, there are a lot of homeless here. What are you going to do about it?) Occasionally give them a Hellsworn or Undead or demon to whack when they're frustrated. Or (especially if they're clever) maybe they reunite a runaway with its family -- in a *good* way, where the problems are addressed and jumpstarted towards a solution. Track down some old lady's niece, who she hasn't seen for ages and doted upon. Let them talk to someone in the local library and discover that they've struck up a friendship with a demon. (For added bogglement, one who isn't even Renegade, but who is capable of being a "nice" person most of the time anyway.) Or an Outcast. Or a Remnant. After they've had time to get guilty consciences (or not), let a roving triad drop by to check up on "all angels in the area." Have an NPC friend of theirs go Outcast (if angelic), or get burned out and want to quit knowing about angels and demons and stuff (if human). Somehow turn one of their human friends into a vampire. If you assign them to an area, you can probably cook up a lot of character-oriented plots, interspersed with orders from Superiors. It's their patch of ground, their little bit of the world that needs cleaning up (or keeping clean). It may play more like a soap-opera in some ways, occasionally, if you do a lot of character-oriented plots, of course. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 12:13:52 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Further, I believe it's based on a *play*. (A musical one? Dunno. But > I'm 90% sure that I saw a "based on" in the credits -- and there's > a copycat cheapo version with the exact same name, so whatever it > came from *has* to be public domain.) I don't know what the play would be, but when we saw it, I said to my wife that it looked exactly like a '30s or '40s musical with no constraints from budget or physics. All those dance numbers... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 12:16:23 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Afterburner wrote: > Religious leaders, period, are usually portrayed as, at best, > hopelessly backwards. At worst, they're conniving hypocrites. > This is especially true for Fundamentalist and/or Evangelical > Christian religious leaders. In the popular mind, *any* moderately conservative Christian is a "Fundamentalist" one. In fact, any conservative religious of any persuasion at all is a "fundamentalist" whatever. That Fundamentalism is a specific movement within Christianity with a particular, explicitly stated doctrinal platform is essentially esoteric knowledge. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 17:34:28 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: Word Forces (and Tether construction) On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 09:44:14AM +0100, Hart, Joanna wrote: > a) if you were really lazy, you could ultimately get soul-killed for doing > nothing, which seems a bit off to me although it might be more what you had > in mind. > b) Don't celestials regenerate 1 soul hit a day anyway? Once a week actually. Soul hits are nasty, damned nasty. Incidentally, shouldn't mortals heal Mind Hits every (6 - Intelligence) days, instead of "at the same rate as Strength"? > c) a little song of healing will soon clear that up, especially with the > essence reserves that a word-bound might have. > If you have that Song of Healing. I think about 3 of my characters do, and only the Habbalite is any good at it. (I can't justify a native of Gehenna who doesn't have that Song, unless they're exceptionally good at getting other people to help them.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 17:38:00 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 12:00:11PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > But yes, a Shedite who contacts his buddies and goes to demonic > hideouts, safehouses or Tethers... has just created a potential > security leak. > I believe the IPG includes a little trick which allows the Shedite to edit memories. I can't remember quite how it worked, but it shouldn't be hard for you to do a version of it. And Shedim tend to get given rather careful instructions, because they're so enthusiastic. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 17:56:09 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Sorcery and Soldiers of God On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 10:58:49AM -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Yeah, for IN, a white magician would almost certainly be aware > that he was getting favors from angels, rather than coercing them. > He'd probably get strict warnings against calling demons. If > he didn't heed them, he probably wouldn't stay white or alive > for long. > Actually, Sorcery is damn handy for Soldiers of God. You can't command Demons, but you can summon them into traps, with lots of angels waiting, while you sit behind your Focus Ward (the song of Corporeal Form is also a blessing). I actually went to the trouble of writing up a mixed group of Outcasts, Grey Renegades and Sorcerors who engaged in this trade at one stage. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:09:20 EDT From: Barelocks@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia What!!? Are you trying to say socialism is not evil :>? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 18:24:14 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 01:09:20PM -0400, Barelocks@aol.com wrote: > What!!? Are you trying to say socialism is not evil :>? I think that before people start making wild statements about what is evil, they should define what they're talking about, and in this instance, give concrete examples. I don't happen to see public health-care, public education, and state-owned electricity companies as evil. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:38:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Thether Thoughts Plus Walter Milliken: > I'm postulating that the average Superior owns about 100 Tethers, each > with an Essence flow of about 1/minute on the average. (NOTE: these > numbers are *very* squishy, and I'm not entirely happy with my attempts > to quantify Essence flow in Tethers yet. I may yet can them entirely.) If you want really buff Superiors, why not allow the tethers to *store* Essence? Rough idea: Thethers can store Essence, creating a continual disturbance as a function of the amount of Essence stored. Put some cap on this relative to the size/importance of the Tether. Fits with current canon, and allows for both bigger Essence reserves and 'stealth Tethers'. Thoughts on Tether Creation: T.'s seem to be spontaneous rather than engineered. Baal doesn't engineer a great battle to get a Battlefield Tether, a Tether develops at a great battlefield. Perhaps the only reqiurement for a Tether to form is somewhere for it to go - an active Cathedral or Principality. This almost imples that there are 'unattached Tethers' to concepts that have lack an active Superior. Latest Thoughts on Quantifying Stuff: A big problem with the entire thing is that the IN system tops out hard. Even beginning PCs can easily reach rediculaous levels of "auto- successness" - see: Short of playing IN GURPS, or just IN Freeform I don't see any decent way to deal with this, other than keeping the game away from these power levels. Does anyone have other ideas? Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 10:42:34 PDT From: "Bartholomew Hammerly" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia This is a beautiful discussion. What does it have to do with IN? >From: Earl Wajenberg > >Afterburner wrote: (huge snip) Is the Demon Prince of Factions among us? Malphas is in on it. Has anyone noticed the recent resurgence of Communism in Russia. ...Boris Yeltsin losing even more popularity. ...Hong Kong belongs to China once more. ...Russian economy collapsing. ...anti-trust attack against giant corporations (not that I have anything against the last -- it just seems factional) Marc is getting pretty upset. Capitalism is taking a pretty hard hit this year. I think the whole Hong Kong thing is bugging the crap out of him. His solution? We'll see. (heh heh) Bart Hammerly Calabim of Fire "Time is the fire in which we burn." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 10:49:21 PDT From: "Bartholomew Hammerly" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Please, people. We're getting way off subject. If you want to discuss it, e-mail each other. I'm begging. >From: Kevin Walsh >On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 01:09:20PM -0400, Barelocks@aol.com wrote: >> What!!? Are you trying to say socialism is not evil :>? > >I think that before people start making wild statements about what is >evil, they should define what they're talking about, and in this instance, >give concrete examples. I don't happen to see public health-care, public >education, and state-owned electricity companies as evil. > >Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:14:42 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Thether Thoughts Plus >Thoughts on Tether Creation: > >T.'s seem to be spontaneous rather than engineered. Baal doesn't >engineer a great battle to get a Battlefield Tether, a Tether develops at >a great battlefield. Perhaps the only reqiurement for a Tether to form >is somewhere for it to go - an active Cathedral or Principality. This >almost imples that there are 'unattached Tethers' to concepts that have >lack an active Superior. Tethers -can- be engineered in many cases, and once established they -must- be maintained. Sites that might be Tether-worthy to an untenanted Word will quickly lose their Essence-bearing nature to neglect. (At least, that's my theory.) >Latest Thoughts on Quantifying Stuff: > >A big problem with the entire thing is that the IN system tops out hard. >Even beginning PCs can easily reach rediculaous levels of "auto- >successness" >Short of playing IN GURPS, or just IN Freeform I don't see any decent way >to deal with this, other than keeping the game away from these power >levels. Does anyone have other ideas? Simple. Don't permit autosuccess. By making 11 and 12 auto-failures (about a 1 in 12 chance of bad luck), not only do you take away the primary advantage of having 12 in a particular attribute, but you also make it that much more expensive, from the player's point of view, to get check-digit bonuses. As one of the DVPBEM players put it, "You mean to tell me that my STR/9 and Fight/3 doesn't do me any more good than if I'd just taken Fight/1?" No, it doesn't. To those who complain that autosuccess is a right, and that raw luck should not play a part in fighting, I say check your history. Raw, dumb luck will interfere in anything and everything, and even the most skillful, talented, powerful individual will screw up on the difficult stuff- and as for the easy stuff, well, you shouldn't be rolling for that anyway. Oh, and one other thing: I'm still opposed to Word Forces, and in full support of non-quantified vastly powerful Superiors. Redneck Kris Overstreet, web pages beyond belief http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/milkmaid/ - The Magnificent Milkmaid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:52:05 -0800 From: Armand Subject: What about Gump? Re: (was IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia) >2) Whatever government happens to be in charge at the time is evil, no >matter what. Government should be eliminated. > >3) Anybody who doesn't believe in the political views of the director is >evil. > >4) Resistance to the establishment is almost mandatory, no matter what >(see #2 above). Unless the movie is Forest Gump. Then, the establishment is your friend. Lose a few marbles, follow orders, do as your told; and you can end up a multimillionaire. Resist the system, and you become a drug addict, all around victim, and AIDS case. I think that this movie sends out quite a diabolic message iffin ya ask me. Especially when you consider that it won an Oscar for best picture and is on Newt Gingrich's top ten movie list. And they say that there isn't a big conspiracy going on. Of course, trying to derail this train back into on topic land, this could be a plot for Celestial propaganda films. If you take the stance that the Infernals have a hand in a fair number of recent releases, then what kind of investment would Heaven have to make to make its voice heard above the noise? Armand ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:02:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Highway Star Subject: Re: What about Gump? Re: (was IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - According to Armand: > And they say that there isn't a big conspiracy going on. There isn't a big conspiracy going on.:) Personally, I think that _Forrest Gump_ was inspired by minions of David...endurance, etc. etc. Okay back to lurking and surfing conspiracy web pages... SeanMike - -- __^\ | SeanMike Whipkey bobcode: | Smile! The Illuminati __/ * | | KIHth- lwWudmHp EGd+++ m4 | are watching. / \ | CPEIV B13 Ouw Le ScnsMIC | Praise "Bob"! Hail Eris! - --------- | T- A7LAT H6 b2 D1 | insert #disclaimer_stuff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:10:52 -0800 From: Armand Subject: IN> Communism dead? >(Besides, it's fashionable to sniff at communism now. It kind of >died off.) Only in the form of the USSR. China is alive and well and one British colony larger now. Aren't they also a wee bot peeved at the US now? Political fashion says that it is wise to give the Chinese gov. what it wants. Most favored nation status, Hong Kong, etc. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 20:12:55 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: What about Gump? Re: (was IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - At 15:02 09/06/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >There isn't a big conspiracy going on.:) > >Personally, I think that _Forrest Gump_ was inspired by minions >of David... If it was minions of David then it was _definitely_ a conspiracy! jo "Whatever was required to be done, the Circumlocution Office was before hand with all the public departments in the art of perceiving HOW NOT TO DO IT." -- Dickens (Little Dorrit) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 20:23:34 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Newbie Nattering At 12:32 09/06/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >It may play more like a soap-opera in some ways, occasionally, if >you do a lot of character-oriented plots, of course. > And this is a bad thing? ;) jo "Whatever was required to be done, the Circumlocution Office was before hand with all the public departments in the art of perceiving HOW NOT TO DO IT." -- Dickens (Little Dorrit) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:11:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jesse L. Rooney" Subject: Re: IN> Communism=Evil? > In America you CAN be a communist if you so desire. You can be a communist, but running for office as a a communist or socialist is still illegal. Just ask Bernie Sanders. >Communism works great in a world where no one is selfish.. . We should draw the distinction between Marxist Socialism and Leninist/Stalinist Communism. Socialism was designed to be a classless system, whereas Communism is a class based system, at least in practise. There are a thousand other distinctions, but we need not go into those. "Guility as Hell?" Well maybe if holding an unpopular ideaology is akin to Hell. Besides, many of the witnesses in the McCarthy cases said they lied. Yes, I am back. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:18:45 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Newbie Nattering On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Jo Hart wrote: > At 12:32 09/06/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > >It may play more like a soap-opera in some ways, occasionally, if > >you do a lot of character-oriented plots, of course. > > > > > And this is a bad thing? ;) Absolutely not! Actually, I've had this idea of writing up a mock-recap for an IN soap/sitcom with the title "Horns and Halos"... :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! Geography is just therapy for imperialists. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 98 16:23 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Tethers for who (Re: Word Forces) >Since a tether is a link between the Celestial and Corporeal realms, then >it would seem to indicate that the Superior needs a place to link the >tether to. Since Furfur has no Principality, he has no place to link any >tethers to. It would also explain why (most, at any rate) Word-bound hav >no tethers of their own; they have no place in the Celestial realm which >is theirs, for the tether to link to. In fact, the canon bits I'm writing now on Tethers, they all start out as "wild", and the celestial end manifests in places the Tether has an affinity to (i.e., the celestial location has a strong Word-connection to whatever event formed the Tether). The Superior then has to "capture" the Tether and stabilize it. This neatly explains Furfur -- there's no celestial place that's really dedicated to his Word, to attract a wild Tether that was formed from some event related to it. So his potential Tethers wind up somewhere else, with a Word with less affinity, because there *is* something there to draw the Tether. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:28:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jesse L. Rooney" Subject: Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia >Has anyone seen Anastasis? I must admit I haven't but what my housemate > told me about it + the recent mentions of Communism [gee who started that > (% ] made me think someone might be interested. > Anastasisa is a Warner Brothers, not Disney film. >Does anyone have a problem with the messages this might be sending to the > likely young audience of this animated feature? > HELL YES! Look at all animated movies, the good guys always look good and the bad guys are most often fat and have facial hair. (ALADIN, Popeye, Bugs Bunny) The poor are as often as not bad guys (Lion King hyenaes, aristocats) The good guys are thin and young, older people are often villains or bumbling fools (Aladin) the men are almost always aggresive and women are the most sensitive (Beauty and the Beast) > What I see here are 1 Non-mainline religeous leaders are evil and probably > in league with Satan; The historical Mad Monk was most definatly mainstream. He was invited into the tsar's family, how mainstream can you get? ANd he was a part of a very ancient and well-established faith. 2 Absolute states like Monarchies are fun places > where everyone is happy; "How do you know he is a king?" "He hasn't got shit all over him." 3 Socialism is Evil; 4 Resistance to the > Establishment is only possble with Diabolic aid and then results only is a > worse situation where everyone is much less happy (if not slaughtered in > their thousands). > Watch what your kids watch, folks. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:36:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jesse L. Rooney" Subject: Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Of course, that's not even touching the historical end of Anastasia. My > understanding of the plot is that, while they took some liberties with it, > it is still more historically accurate than most "historical" Disney > movies. > What? Both the mad monk and a tsarist princess return from the dead and it is any where near a historical movie? And, to my knowledge, Idsney doesn't make any historical cartoons. Alladin? Lion King? Beauty and the Beast? Hardly ever claimed to be historical. Mulana might be different, though. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:46:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jesse L. Rooney" Subject: Re: What about Gump? Re: (was IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - > > And they say that there isn't a big conspiracy going on. > > There isn't a big conspiracy going on.:) > > Personally, I think that _Forrest Gump_ was inspired by minions > of David...endurance, etc. etc. > > Okay back to lurking and surfing conspiracy web pages... Forest Gump did not have much endurance. He was a guy who flew ass-backwards into wealth and fame. - -Jesse Sometimes I get the feeking I am the only one on the list who belongs to a real, established, although non-Western, religion. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 17:23:35 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Disney's Infernal Communists - Anastasia Jesse L. Rooney wrote: > What? Both the mad monk and a tsarist princess return from the > dead and it is any where near a historical movie? At least there are no talking trees ("Pocahantas") or singing gargoyles ("Hunchback of Notre Dame"). > > And, to my knowledge, Idsney doesn't make any historical cartoons. > Alladin? Lion King? Beauty and the Beast? Hardly ever claimed to be > historical. Mulana might be different, though. "Pocahantas" is historical. Or at least Pocahantas without quotation marks is. And I would guess that the snicker quotes around the original use of "historical" refer to the liberties Disney takes with the original forms of things like "Hunchback," the myth of Hercules, and Anderson's "Little Mermaid." (Mind you, I liked the Disney version of "Little Mermaid" better than the original.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 18:09:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> More Bright Lilim Attunements... http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/rules.html#BrightLilimChoirAttunements gets the major ones... But hey, lemme think of some minor ones! Litheroy [mildly positive] A Lilim of Revelations, like Litheroy's Seraphim, can choose which die is the check digit when she uses her resonance to discover any *non-obvious* Need. If she attempts to geas someone to reveal a truth that was hidden, her Celestial Forces are an additional penalty to the target's resistance roll. [Litheroy is the Seraph Archangel of Revelations, in the GM Pack adventure, Feast of Blades.] Christopher [mildly positive to neutral] Even as Christopher's Elohim have a Lilim-like attunement, a Lilim of Children is able to sense the emotions attached to any resonance- detected Need. If she fulfills a child's desire, she has the option of taking Essence (like Elohim of Children) or a Geas-hook -- but if she geases a child to something that harms the child, she will become dissonant. (Fortunately, "Eat your carrots, dear," is perfectly acceptable.) [Christopher is the Cherub AA of Children, from _Night Music_.] Zadkiel [neutral] A Lilim of Protection would partake somewhat of her Archangel's nature. With a successful Perception roll, she can home in on the closest appropriate (i.e., "faithful," "non-evil") person who needs protection as if she were a Cherub attuned to that person! This "attunement" lasts until she gets to the person, or until the danger has passed. [Zadkiel is the Cherub AA of Protection, from _Heaven & Hell_.] Khalid [hostile] With eye contact, a Lilim of Faith could see what someone most needed to believe in -- whether it is that there is a God, or whether it's that their beloved really does love them back. She may also geas someone to "have faith" in a person, institution or concept -- instead of causing dissonance or damange when resisted, the geas gives a +(Geas level) bonus to any one skill the GM considers directly relavant. (Someone who needed to have faith in a cause, before a battle, would gain a bonus to Fighting or a weapon skill. Someone urged to have faith in a spouse would get a bonus to all rolls to remain calm and objective, etc.) [Khalid is the Elohite AA of Faith, from _Final Trumpet_.] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #816 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.