From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jun 26 03:56:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA06745 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 03:56:48 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id DAA17737 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 03:52:36 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 03:52:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199806260852.DAA17737@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #837 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, June 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number 837 In this digest: IN> Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels Re: IN> Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind IN> Campaign Concept - the Dumas Club Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind Re: IN> Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind Re: IN> Choir, Band, and Superior Questions Re: IN> Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels IN> Elohim resonance question. Re: IN> Elohim resonance question. IN> IN: Some answers an' stuff Re: IN> Elohim resonance question. Re: IN> Rewrite of the combat system IN> The Big Lie IN> Shadowrun Crossover Re: IN> The Big Lie Re: IN> Mariel, DP of Oblivion IN> [NPC] The Angel of Humanity Re: IN> Campaign Concept - the Dumas Club ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:08:18 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels >>>IIRC, Uriel states this as fact in the vignette concerning his recall at the front of the Marches, which still leaves the question of whether it's actually true (in IN canon). Personally, I thought the context in which he stated it made rather a good argument against him, but no-one ever said logic was his strong point.<<< Uriel states this as his _opinion_. Recall that Jordi wasn't the only AA who disagreed with Uriel. ;) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:06:41 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels Kevin Walsh wrote: > >On Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 11:57:18AM -0400, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >> >I take this from two factors. First, according to Genesis (yes, I AM >> >going to use it as a base In Nom source) God gave man domination over >> >the plants and creatures of the air water etc. > >IIRC, Uriel states this as fact in the vignette concerning his recall at >the front of the Marches, which still leaves the question of whether it's >actually true (in IN canon). Personally, I thought the context in which he >stated it made rather a good argument against him, but no-one ever said >logic was his strong point. The context of that was Kronos and Baal discussing Uriel's trial. I don't think we can take anything in that as even close to what actually happened. So it doesn't really affect my point either way. :) Digression: I have a feeling the whole Uriel thing was something that was imported from INS/MV without a whole lot of thought about the implications. It made sense in the French game, but that was because it was a pure satire. Our IN is a different critter, which admits the possibility of taking the Abrahamic outlook seriously, and this is rather incompatible with the whole Uriel story. Specifically, being brought closer to God is pretty much the defnintion of Heaven (according to Christianity and Islam, anyway), and so it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for this to be Uriel's punishment. Being called to the high Heavens is necessarily a reward, since it brings you closer to the full beatific vision. I don't mean to imply that I'm opposed to heretical or unorthodox ideas being used in IN canon, but I would prefer it if they were useful heresies. By this I mean the heresy should open up more types of possible games and campaigns than it closes off. In this sense a useful heresy is the idea that the angels are not fully cognizant of the divine will and argue and squabble a lot. This dramatically increases the types of games we can play. An annoying heresy is the way pantheism crept into canon through the Yves and Kronos expanded writeups - -- it doesn't really make any new types of game possible, and it just makes me do extra work to use IN material in my own game. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:22:56 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind I rarely comment on NPCs people post to the list, but....nicely done! Even I sometimes have trouble getting a handle on Janus, who personally I see as the most sinister and unangelic of the Archangels. This character gives a _real_, solid example of how change can be disruptive, cause chaos and unhappiness, and still serve Heaven. Kudos to you, Neel. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:41:52 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind At 18:45 24/06/98 -0400, you wrote: >An NPC from my game. He doesn't have any particularly secret bits to >his background, so I feel okay posting him to the list. > >-- >Jamin >Elohite of the Wind > >"Vanity of vanity, saith the preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. >What profit hath a man of all his labor which he takes under the sun?" > Great character! I was just wondering if this might be more an Elohite of Destiny kind of thing (as at least they'd have an idea of what the person's destiny actually was in advance). Otherwise you might be wasting a lot of effort... I wonder how much you could justify ruining one person's life if you felt it would have a huge effect on a lot of other people. I have a feeling that perhaps the wind, unlike destiny, is not overly concerned with individuals. jo jhart@btinternet.com http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ - --- "When ideas fail, words come in very handy." Goethe (1749-1832) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:55:59 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: IN> Campaign Concept - the Dumas Club G'day. Recently I read a wonder novel - "The Dumas Club", by Spanish author Arturo Perez-Reverte. I heartily recommend it - well written, intelligent, literary... reminded me of a somewhat more accessible Umberto Eco. The novel's plot deals with the search for a number of books on demonology, with interference from what seem to be characters from _The_Three_Musketeers_. I won't divulge any more, because hopefully a few readers will chose to chase it down. So how does this connect to IN? Well, I''m a big fan of the Marches, and I like the fact that fictional characters can exist there, born from the powers of dreaming imagination. After reading the novel, I thought there'd be a lot of keenness in playing fictional characters in the real world. Hence, "The Dumas Club". - -- It's tough to be a fictional character nowadays. The Angelic Police want to stamp you out for the crime of existing. The Demons Downstairs want to recruit you and use for their own ends. And the other gods floating around the Marches see you as just another source of Essence. To survive, you need to band together... The concept of this campaign would be that the PCs are various fictional characters that have come to life in the Marches. Out of neccessity or loneliness, they've banded together as "The Dumas Club" (for simplicity's sake) - a network/group/society dedicated to ensuring their continued survival. In this club, old enemies must sometimes bury the hatchet - Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty, formerly mortal adversaries, know that survival depends on them using their great intellects together. Of course, some have sold out - Mycroft Holmes, Sherlock's even smarter brother, now works in service to Asmodeus (anything for a quiet life). In this cold new world, even once decent characters must occasionally sell out to the man (rumours say that John Shaft, black private dick, does contract jobs for Kronos when he's down on Essence). You never know who you can trust, or who your enemies are. Some even help the Angels, like reformed miser Scrooge - even though the forces of Heaven are the first to call for pogroms against the Imaginaries. What's a character to do? PCs would probably be made on a basis of 7 Forces - 8 or 9 for the _really_ well established or popular characters, like Santa Claus or Batman. Let players purchase Vessels, since there's fun to be had in the real world, but point out that getting killed will land them in Limbo for a very long time. To get completely away from canon, I'd also advise giving all PCs some sort of resonance and attunement style ability. Make it something unique and appropriate for the character, that has a similar (or slightly lower) level of effect than a Celestial resonance. Let the PCs make up a couple of 'rites' each, so they have a way of gaining Essence more reliably. Then let 'em rip. Now you've got interesting characters, who (due to their altered lifestyles and knowledge of their own fictional nature) will have personalities that have drifted away from their original inception. You've got a huge playing field (Earth & the Marches). You've got antagonists - Angels, Demons, humans and other denizens of the Marches. And you've got other imaginaries as allies, enemies or simply 'family'. It's not at all standard IN. And I'm not sure I'd ever run it using the IN rules (7 or 8 Forces means that it's hard to have an effective _and_ well-balanced character) - maybe Feng Shui or FUDGE would be better. But it would be a bucket of fun, wouldn't it? - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia When masturbation's lost its fun You're fucking breaking GREEN DAY, "Longview" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:48:31 EDT From: SienarFLT@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind In a message dated 98-06-25 02:08:22 EDT, you write: > I was just wondering if this might be more an Elohite of Destiny kind of > thing (as at least they'd have an idea of what the person's destiny > actually was in advance). Otherwise you might be wasting a lot of effort... The end result that this NPC is concerned with, is getting people onto the straight-and-narrow, doing God's work with a final reward in heaven. Every angel should be concerned with getting as many humans to do the right thing, even if their methods are a little extreme in Jamin's instance. I don't necessarily see that Jamin would have to be a servant of Yves to make this character work. Destiny might be concerned with this in as far as whether or not a human's destiny had been "altered" due to Jamin's interference, and I could see the strong possiblity that this character would make some political enemies with some of Yves servitors. -- Thom Dawson (reply to SienarFLT@aol.com) "Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god Superior to themselves. Most gods have the Manners and morals of a spoiled child." -- Lazarus Long. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:11:21 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > In this sense a useful heresy is the idea that the angels are not > fully cognizant of the divine will and argue and squabble a lot. > This dramatically increases the types of games we can play. An > annoying heresy is the way pantheism crept into canon through the > Yves and Kronos expanded writeups -- it doesn't really make any new > types of game possible, and it just makes me do extra work to use > IN material in my own game. Amen. Thank you for putting very neatly something I have tried to say on the list more thn once now. While I'm seconding motions, I'll also second the defense of Jordi as not necessarily anti-human, but anti-civilization (or at least anti-civilization-as-we-know-it) for its obvious disasterous effects on wildlife. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:24:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind Jamin is not only an interesting character in his own right, he shows clearly why a fallen Elohite becomes a Habballah. He is, after all, mighty close to being a Punisher as he now is. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:09:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Choir, Band, and Superior Questions At 5:48 PM -0700 6/23/98, Peter Martin wrote: >Malk would get as many reinforcements as they could every time they went >back to heaven. Since they gain dissonance by giving up, wouldn't this >theoretically mean that the battle had to last until there were either >A) No more Malakim or B) no more demons... ...ANYWHERE? They don't *have* to run back down to a fight where they got killed -- if they don't have a vessel, they *can't*, without petitioning their Archangel. But yes, this is one of the nasty things about fighting Malakim -- kill them, and they show back up in a round or two, and they often bring friends. (Though they can only bring friends with vessels, and the GM can always rule that all the Malakim with vessels in the area are *busy on Earth* and not available to squelch demons...) They can sometimes get an Essence-refill, though. And if they *do* mop up the demons (who would have been wise to run away quickly after vessel-killing the Malakite, just in case he has a spare vessel and some friends to give him Essence), the battle ends there. Demons are much less likely to show up and help their buddies in an accelerating Malakite-fight. >Second: Isn't the resonance of the impudites sufficient to make them >utter combat monsters? Just buy ONE destructive song or attunement, fuel >with copious amounts of essence and... ow. I think their band's reaction >to the Malks in the Infernal players guide should've been knuckles being >cracked not, "One word: run" Comments? This is where that Malakim-coming-back thing comes into play -- yes, a full-up Impudite can do gory gobs of damage. But it's noisy, and he can only do it once or twice at most. (Probably only once, to vessel- kill something with a lot of hits.) And if that Malakite happens to come *back* right after... The Impudite is out of Essence, and probably out of luck. The other thing that makes that impractical is that angels tend to come in packs -- they usually have a friend or two who will be happy to point out your lack of Essence by pounding you into the ground. Or a human soldier really ruins your day, if you're not one of the Servitors who gets to kill them. Ditto Kyriotates in human hosts! Oh, yes, and did I mention the noise? Expending Essence makes disturbance, which is going to drag every local curious (and combat-capable*) celestial down on the area -- while you're out of Essence. And some of those are going to be hostile demons or more angels, you can just bet. (* The non-combat-capable celestials hide when they hear large amounts of Essence being used, or creep quietly and carefully. Or get their combat-monster buddies.) And unless the local politics are approving of slinging Essence around like hamburger patties, yes, the friendly neighborhood Game Servitor will start spying on you, to see if you make a habit of doing this... Hey, Impudite, are you *SURE* your girlfriend isn't being ridden by a Shedite of the Game? *Positive*? Gotten much Essence from her recently? Maybe it's in one of your pool buddies now... >Third: Aside from an arbitrary ban, how does one keep a player who plays >a calabim of Kronos with ofanite resonance (Due to the Balseraph of >Kronos attunement from making every single battle into an utter >massacre? See the IPG and the FAQ -- since having an angelic resonance involves the Balseraph mindset of making their own reality, only Bals can take it, and only once. (Or let them take it more -- and inflict a level of Split Personality Discord for every additional Choir attunement, along with some nice delusions... "I, I, I... I *AM* a MALAKITE! DIE, FOUL DEMONS!") >[...] Also, if they're good >enough at acting, isn't it conceivable that demons with this attunement >could have ANGELIC attunements as well?! Any Archangel who touched the Forces of such a Bal (which is how they bestow angelic attunements) would instantly recognize it as a Balseraph. No, the ones you worry about *there* are the Gamesters with Humanity, who fake being Soldiers, and acquire Blade Blessing or something. (Mind you, unless they'd been very careful, perhaps even made for that task, their emotions/past actions might give them away as dishonorable, if not demonic.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:28:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shumaker Subject: Re: IN> Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: #Digression: # #In this sense a useful heresy is the idea that the angels are not fully #cognizant of the divine will and argue and squabble a lot. This dramatically #increases the types of games we can play. An annoying heresy is the way #pantheism crept into canon through the Yves and Kronos expanded writeups #-- it doesn't really make any new types of game possible, and it just #makes me do extra work to use IN material in my own game. # This is a problem with my games too. It seems that I have to change more Canon from IN than the bits of IN that I even use. Jim Shumaker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:04:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: IN> Elohim resonance question. All right, it looked straightforward enough in principle, but now that I've seen it in action I find myself wondering exactly how much Elohim find out. Specifically, on those CD values where the Eloh not only finds out emotions but their motivations, in how much detail is the motivation known? An example, from my most recent game. Eloh resonates on a Soldier of Hell (affiliation inferred from the fact that he knew two Corporeal Songs and had been mouthing off about "killing angels".) At what point in the following progression *should* I, according to the intent of the rules, draw the line in describing his dominant emotion and its motivation: "He is afraid, because he fears punishment for his failure." "He is afraid of a specific individual, who has power over him, and will punish him for his failure." "He is afraid because he thinks that his demonic master will punish him for his failure." "He is afraid because his demonic master, known to him as Shrak the Calabite of Baal, will punish him for his failure." (I feel no qualms about posting this, even though I have players reading this list, since they already found Shrak and reduced his Vessel to chutney. It simply occurred to me, in the post-game calm, to wonder what opinion other GMs might have about the amount of detail Elohim are entitled to in describing motivations. By the way, if somebody is helplessly unconscious, courtesy of losing all Mind hits, does he suffer Trauma for getting his vessel killed while he can't perceive it? Or, alternatively, does the Trauma clock only start ticking after he regains consciousness from the Mind damage?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:17:21 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Elohim resonance question. >All right, it looked straightforward enough in principle, but now that >I've seen it in action I find myself wondering exactly how much Elohim >find out. Specifically, on those CD values where the Eloh not only finds >out emotions but their motivations, in how much detail is the motivation >known? >At what point >in the following progression *should* I, according to the intent of the >rules, draw the line in describing his dominant emotion and its >motivation: > >"He is afraid, because he fears punishment for his failure." >"He is afraid of a specific individual, who has power over him, and will >punish him for his failure." >"He is afraid because he thinks that his demonic master will punish him >for his failure." >"He is afraid because his demonic master, known to him as Shrak the Calabite >of Baal, will punish him for his failure." The way that I'd do this (were I the GM) would be in terms of the way it associated with the emotion. I wouldn't give the name of the Calabite in question, but if he was afraid of being punished in a particularly demonic way, then I'd give number three. If it were more "I'm afraid of my master (who just happens to be a demon) shooting me in the head", then I'd give number two. I note that number one more or less equals number two anyhow, as it would be, presumably, someone superior to him who punished him. "You feel the bloom of fear in him, and the terror of punishment from some superior for failure..." YMMV. - --- Maya, Elohite of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:28:04 PDT From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> IN: Some answers an' stuff hello all. Sheep-boy said: >How can tethers be destroyed? Is it enough to destroy the building >or whatever location happens to be housing it? Can they be destroyed from >the Celestial side? Maybe just closed down and "boarded up" by Superiors? Here's my take; although, no one I know has gotten 'round to this kind of behaviour yet (there's still hope), I would say that the 'reputation' of the Tether is the most important part - the Word - as opposed to the bricks and mortar. For instance, Jeffrey Dhamer's apartment building becoming a Tether to Death. If the building could somehow be turned into a school or shop, or otherwise 'recycled' for the benefit of the community, then the stain of death is all but forgotten, then you would have destroyed it (and quite possibly created a new one - and not necessarily for good!). I notice in an earlier reply to this question, someone mentioned an upcoming Tether supplement (also I've heard about a 'songbook'); I wonder if someone could give me the word on the upcoming releases. All I know is that FotM is due out soon. Speaking as an English gamer, I have no other source of reliable information on forthcoming releases and plans, other than the odd rumour. I think I'm living in a RPGing Black Hole unfortunately. Whilst on the subject of Tethers, I suddenly find myself unable to think if anything for Kobal. This is not good, he's one of my favourites. Especially his servitors David Perry and Jeremy Croft (I think that's them - all you UK readers, you know who I mean!) - the Demons of Cheap Innuendo! Regarding: >I can afford either Liber Requilium, which has a bunch of songs, which I >like, or Angelic Players Guide, which deals with characters. >Can someone persuasively give me a reason to buy one over the other? I have both books and I think both have merits; however I agree with some of the comments about the extended resonance s. Basically, if you yourself have a feel for and understanding of the Angelic mindset, then don't bother. I find it useful to explain what being an Angel is to my players more than anything - but then perhaps I'm a lazy GM (and we're all still new to the game). I'm still reading Liber reliquarum, but so far I think I likes it. It offers, above all, a wealth of plot devices within the artefacts themselves (yes there are lists), and the creation rules steer the reader away from the 'treasure chest' mentality. It is more than that for sure. Although it depends if you really need that; if you have plenty if ideas of your own then stick with that and save your money. It's probably been said a million times already by every roleplayer, but if a book inspires ideas more than in the reader, then it's worth buying. Following some thread on Biblical artefacts, I wonder if anyone has read the Great Pyramid Decoded by Peter Lesmurier. In it he manages to find meaning in every measurement and square inch of the monument. He also find many Biblical connotations as well. for example, he maintains that, encoded in the architecture, was the route taken by Moses when escaping Egypt and the Pharaoh. There's also an angle that can be extended from the pyramid (it's exact details escape me now) to Bethlehem, and he summarises the whole thing as a 'plan' for the spiritual evolution of man, involving reincarnation (the journey through the pyramid matches the journey taken by the soul in the Egyptian Book of the Dead as well!). some artefact! (While I'm on this tack - everyone should read Graham Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods; it's damned exciting if nothing else!) David Edelstein said: >The Spear of Destiny doesn't appear in the Liber Reliquarum because >it's in >Night Music (p. 39). Forgot I have the book in the first place. Hmn! But thanks for reminding me! Marnie - wondering how many Kyrio does it take to change a light bulb? "Red alert sir? Are you sure sir; it does mean changing the light bulb!" ( Kryten, serving aboard Red Dwarf) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:49:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Elohim resonance question. At 1:04 PM -0400 6/25/98, York H. Dobyns wrote: >All right, it looked straightforward enough in principle, but now that >I've seen it in action I find myself wondering exactly how much Elohim >find out. Specifically, on those CD values where the Eloh not only finds >out emotions but their motivations, in how much detail is the motivation >known? > >An example, from my most recent game. Eloh resonates on a Soldier of >Hell (affiliation inferred from the fact that he knew two Corporeal >Songs and had been mouthing off about "killing angels".) At what point >in the following progression *should* I, according to the intent of the >rules, draw the line in describing his dominant emotion and its >motivation: > >"He is afraid, because he fears punishment for his failure." I'd probably stop here, or at the next level -- depending on if he's afraid of the punishment, or of the person who will punish him. >"He is afraid of a specific individual, who has power over him, and will >punish him for his failure." > >"He is afraid because he thinks that his demonic master will punish him >for his failure." Unless it is *crucial* to the emotion that it is the person's *demonic* master, I wouldn't give that adjective. >"He is afraid because his demonic master, known to him as Shrak the Calabite >of Baal, will punish him for his failure." I *definitely* would not give detailed names and Superiors! >By the way, if somebody is >helplessly unconscious, courtesy of losing all Mind hits, does he suffer >Trauma for getting his vessel killed while he can't perceive it? I would say yes. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:00:01 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Rewrite of the combat system I liked the way you calculate hit points, much better than the original. I confess that what I truly dislike about IN combat is how long it all takes if people have a lot of hit points to play around with -- that and trying to remember how much power & precision you get if you combine claws with Gabriel's malakite attunement. What I actually wanted to say was that I liked your web page. Is it OK with you if I link to it? (Incidentally, good luck with having a Mercurian of Destiny as a PC -- I love the concept but I am not fond of any power in which I have to ask the player not to use it on certain people (such as other PCs). On the good side, she is a great player and we had some very long and enlightening discussions about Fate, Destiny and Free Will in the game :) Good luck!). jo jhart@btinternet.com http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ - --- "When ideas fail, words come in very handy." Goethe (1749-1832) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:10:05 -0400 From: Kirt Dankmyer Subject: IN> The Big Lie Grumpbert, Shedim of Gluttony, tooled into the tiny cafe in Shal-Mari, looking for that particular blend of cappuccino that his Dread Lord required. He immediately regretted it. There were only two people in the otherwise empty cafe. Two demons, actually. One was a well-dressed, dignified old man, sitting in a old, wooden chair. The other was a Balseraph, coiled around a well-polished pole, what is known as a "Balseraph couch" in Hell. The Balseraph looked almost like a Seraph, surrounded by a painfully beautiful nimbus of light, and its scales well-polished and red. Before each of them was an untouched cup of cappuccino, of just the sort his Dread Lord required. Both exuded more power than Grumpbert had experienced even in the presence of His Dread Lord, and he immediately recognized them. Almost as immediately, he turned around and began to ooze out the door... "Wait," said Lucifer, smiling. "Come here, child." "Surely you don't want to tell him," said Kronos, glancing at his pocketwatch. "Why not?" asked Lucifer. "Come here, child. Now." Grumpbert, frozen in the doorway with fear, slowly turned around, and oozed along the floor, coming to rest at the bottom of the Lightbringer's pole. "No need to be so formal," Lucifer told him. "Sit up. You are a rebel against God, not a slave." Grumpbert coalesced into a cloud a couple inches shorter than Kronos. "Good, good. Now, lad, do you know the story of Creation?" asked Lucifer. "In the beginning, there was darkness," said Grumpbert, reciting what every imp is told. "And it was at rest. And then, God came, bringing his stagnant order, his rules, with him. And he tried to impose them on the darkness, disturbing it..." Lucifer nodded. "You do realize, of course, that that's a lie?" Grumpbert quivered, but he did not reply. "It's true as far as it goes," said Kronos, suddenly, causing Grumpbert to jump. "But the truth is, there was no darkness. There was nothing. Void. Nothing existed, and nothing could exist, because all there was was nothing. Darkness implies the absence of light, and there was no light to be absent. There was not even the laws of physicals that allow light to *be*. Utter, absolute nothingness." Kronos took a sip of his cappuccino. "To paraphrase Descartes terribly, you cannot deceive something that does not exist. Descartes was wrong -- you *can* deceive something that doesn't exist. You can trick it into believing that it exists. You can trick the void into believing it is substance. And lo! It is so." "The act of creation," said Lucifer, all six eyes twinkling with joy, "is one big lie. Nothingness deluding itself into form and meaning when there is, in fact, none. And that, my child, is why we will win the War. Because, in the end, I will tell a lie that undo the lies of God, and God Himself will cease to exist." Kronos looked at Grumpbert. Grumpbert trembled, bits of him sloshing around. "But won't that make everything else cease to exist as well?" Kronos and Lucifer looked at each other, and then back at Grumpbert. "Yes," said Lucifer, and, with a glance, Grumpbert's Forces were scattered to the four winds. The two finished their cups of brown liquid and walked out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:23:22 +0100 From: "Nagasaki" Subject: IN> Shadowrun Crossover This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0188_01BDA07F.7B781540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone attempted a Shadowrun-IN crossover??? I just thought that = attacking a demon with cyberware would be funny... =20 Also, that would have a better use for taint_search.exe because they = would have a better chance of getting to use their resonances in the = Matrix than on the Net =20 and another thing, would Shedim and Kyrios have access to the cyberware, = a bit of a prob if they've got CyberEyes :) Only for Kyrios of Jean = methinks... =20 Gary Doyle, rushing in where angels fear to tread - ------=_NextPart_000_0188_01BDA07F.7B781540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone attempted a Shadowrun-IN=20 crossover???  I just thought that attacking a demon with cyberware = would be=20 funny...
 
Also, that would have a better use = for=20 taint_search.exe because they would have a better chance of getting to = use their=20 resonances in the Matrix than on the Net
 
and another thing, would Shedim and Kyrios have = access to the=20 cyberware, a bit of a prob if they've got CyberEyes :)  Only for = Kyrios of=20 Jean methinks...
 
Gary Doyle, rushing in where angels fear to=20 tread
- ------=_NextPart_000_0188_01BDA07F.7B781540-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:45:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> The Big Lie - ---Kirt Dankmyer wrote: > > Grumpbert, Shedim of Gluttony, tooled into the tiny cafe in Shal-Mari, looking > for that particular blend of cappuccino that his Dread Lord required. He > immediately regretted it. Heh...nice bedtime story, yes? Gives me an idea... Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:28:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, DP of Oblivion - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Quite out of Canon, I've always felt she was Habbalite-ish, for > some *utterly unknown* reason. However, that would make her a > "late Fall", since no Elohim Fell during the initial Rebellion, > according to the APG, which may not fit the timing well. > > Perhaps a Balseraph, or a Djinn? I just don't see an Ofanite > or Kyriotate as being an Angel of Memory, for some reason, though. > I've been seeing her as a Djinn...although now it's irrelevant, yes? Or is it? Hee hee hee..... :) Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:33:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> [NPC] The Angel of Humanity This will appear on The Reliquary, but I thought I'd get some opinions first... Adamel, the Angel of Humanity Corporeal 3 Strength 6, Agility 6 Ethereal 4 Intelligence 10, Precision 6 Celestial 4 Will 10, Perception 6 Vessel: Human Male/2 (Charisma +2) Role: Student/6 (Status/2)(Adam McKelvey) Songs: Attraction (Celestial/3), Charm (Corporeal/3), Healing (Ethereal/3, Celestial/4), Shields (Corporeal/4) Skills: Area Knowledge (campaign city/3), Computer Operation/2, Detect Lies/3, Driving/1, Electronics/1, Fast Talk/2, Swimming/1 Attunements: Angel of Humanity, Library Card, Mercurian of Destiny Special Rite: May regain 1 Essence by spending one hour without using any Attunements or Songs Discord: Bound/6 One day, Yves appeared before Adamel. "I have an interesting mission for you, Adamel," he said. "What is it, sir?" the Mercurian asked. "How would you feel about going back to Earth for a while?" Yves' eyes twinkled as he smiled. Adamel smiled as well, for it had been a very long time since he'd been on Earth. "What do I have to do, sir?" "Be born to a human couple, and live out a human lifetime." "When do I begin?" *** Adamel is part of an experiment (some would call it a 'bet') of both Yves and Kronos, to see which is more prevailent: Humanity, or Human Nature? Both servitors of Destiny and Fate were given their respective Word, and was sent to Earth to be born as a mortal child. Twenty years have been invested now, and while Adamel hopes that his mission lasts a very long time, he also wonders what will decide the conclusion of the experiment? Comments, critiques, and nitpicking welcome! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:36:24 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Campaign Concept - the Dumas Club >Patrick O'Duffy wrote **Mega snip** > It's tough to be a fictional character nowadays. The Angelic Police >want to stamp you out for the crime of existing. The Demons Downstairs >want to recruit you and use for their own ends. And the other gods >floating around the Marches see you as just another source of Essence. > To survive, you need to band together... There was a mention of something of this sort in an early John Constantine comic. A friend of his was being followed by all sorts of odd people and it transpired that the friend had been used by so many authors as the basis of fictional characters that he had become more fiction than real. As such the "Dumas Club" (to use the phrase) Police came around to put him back in the bottom of the library where he belonged until he could serve his apprenticeship and become a world famous fictional character, at which time he would gain the appropriate benefits, like access to the real world. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #837 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.