From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jun 27 10:45:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27200 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:45:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id KAA11589 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:50:02 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:50:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199806271550.KAA11589@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #838 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, June 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 838 In this digest: Re: IN> Rewrite of the combat system Re: IN> Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels Re: IN> Elohim resonance question. Re: IN> IN: Some answers an' stuff IN> Kronos... (Re: Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind Re: IN> IN: Some answers an' stuff IN> From one of my players... IN> Re: IN> Attunement Question Re: IN> Attunement Question IN> In Nomine - The Musical Re: IN> Re: IN> Quick Question Re: IN> Attunement Question Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind Re: IN> Re: Re: IN> Rewrite of the combat system ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:46:59 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Rewrite of the combat system Jo Hart wrote: > >I liked the way you calculate hit points, much better than the original. I >confess that what I truly dislike about IN combat is how long it all takes >if people have a lot of hit points to play around with -- that and trying >to remember how much power & precision you get if you combine claws with >Gabriel's malakite attunement. I don't actually mind the exact quantity of hit points so much as the fact that there's so much variation. Reasonable PCs can start with anywhere 8 or 9 body hits up to 60 or 70 hits. There's no way that any dangerous situation can be plausbibly structured to offer a threat to the tank without vaporizing the weak ones. >What I actually wanted to say was that I liked your web page. Is it OK with >you if I link to it? (Incidentally, good luck with having a Mercurian of >Destiny as a PC -- I love the concept but I am not fond of any power in >which I have to ask the player not to use it on certain people (such as >other PCs). On the good side, she is a great player and we had some very >long and enlightening discussions about Fate, Destiny and Free Will in the >game :) Good luck!). Feel free to link to it. We decided that the Mercurian of Destiny attunement -- the ability to predict a person's future -- works only on humans, and is more like a weather forecast than a completely accurate prophecy. This coincidentally keeps it from being usable on PCs and it also lets the GM not have to retcon things. It still gives a /lot/ of insight into a person's character, though not as much as the Mercurian of War attunement (which I believe is the most heinous power in the whole rulebook). So far it seems like angels of Destiny are utterly incapable of not being cryptic, even when they want to be clear. Jason tried to explain something to the other angels in the city, and managed to confuse them all, and they just chalked it up to his serving Yves. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:38:19 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels On Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 10:08:18PM -0400, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>IIRC, Uriel states this as fact in the vignette concerning his recall at > the front of the Marches, which still leaves the question of whether it's > actually true (in IN canon). Personally, I thought the context in which he > stated it made rather a good argument against him, but no-one ever said > logic was his strong point.<<< > > > Uriel states this as his _opinion_. He stated it as fact, IIRC. If I say "The Irish Minister for Justice is an evil hypocrite.", then I am stating it as fact. If I say "In my opinion, the Irish Minister for Justice is an evil hypocrite", then I am stating it as my opinion. (As a side note, I'm very wary of Seraphim who go about stating their opinions as fact. I think they're quite close to a Fall.) Since I pointed out that the fact that he stated it doesn't necessarily make it true, I think your remark was needless. Recall that Jordi wasn't the only AA > who disagreed with Uriel. ;) > I do recall that. I don't remember that either of them disagreed with that particular assertion of his, though. WRT Kronos, remember that he has the Seraphic dissonance, and according to the IPG can't use his Balseraph resonance to alter his opinion of what is true. It leaves open the possibility that he got someone to make a fake copy of his Archive, and that he read that out to Baal, but I think that Baal is sharp enough to catch most Seraph evasions, especially from someone he distrusts as much as Kronos. And I don't believe Kronos can successfully Balseraph Baal. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 13:27 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Elohim resonance question. > At what point >in the following progression *should* I, according to the intent of the >rules, draw the line in describing his dominant emotion and its >motivation: I would go for: >"He is afraid of a specific individual, who has power over him, and will >punish him for his failure." Though I'd probably put it as "He's afraid of his boss, who will punish him if he fails." >"He is afraid because he thinks that his demonic master will punish him >for his failure." This is probably too much, unless he's actually afraid of being dragged down to Hell for punishment, or something specific like that. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 13:32 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN: Some answers an' stuff > I notice in an earlier reply to this question, >someone mentioned an upcoming Tether supplement (also I've heard about a >'songbook'); I wonder if someone could give me the word on the upcoming >releases. All I know is that FotM is due out soon. Speaking as an >English gamer, I have no other source of reliable information on >forthcoming releases and plans, other than the odd rumour. Official news on forthcoming releases is at the SJGames web site (www.sjgames.com), and is usually announced in the Daily Illuminator there, as well as posted in various places (including the pages for specific forthcoming books. The songbook and the Tether book aren't really on a specific schedule for release yet, as far as I know, though both are actively in production. >Marnie - wondering how many Kyrio does it take to change a light bulb? "How many light bulbs do you need changed at once?" - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:50:50 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Kronos... (Re: Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels At 5:38 PM +0100 6/26/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >WRT Kronos, remember that he has the Seraphic dissonance, You are assuming that he's taken that as his "Choir"... Or that he can't change his chosen "Choir" in a heartbeat. Besides, canon Kronos isn't a Balseraph -- he's Yves' dark reflection, or the part of Yves that Fell, or something. (Em and Maya told me this nice little notion about them: as the personifications of the Symphony's Destiny and Fate, they "remember the future." But Yves remembers the bright future, and Kronos the dark one. Sort of like Merlin, living backwards... Anyway, they explained it much better.) >and according to the IPG can't use his Balseraph resonance >to alter his opinion of what is true. (C'mon, cite the page -- I don't recall that statement anywhere!) >[...] And I don't believe Kronos can successfully Balseraph Baal. You don't need to Balseraph a Bal, you just have to get them to self-resonate and think it was their own idea... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:42:49 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind Jo Hart wrote: > >At 18:45 24/06/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >>Jamin >>Elohite of the Wind >> >>"Vanity of vanity, saith the preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. >>What profit hath a man of all his labor which he takes under the sun?" >> > >I was just wondering if this might be more an Elohite of Destiny kind of >thing (as at least they'd have an idea of what the person's destiny >actually was in advance). Otherwise you might be wasting a lot of effort... Well, I don't really think "achieving destiny" and "getting into Heaven" are the same concept. If a guy has led a really crummy life, but then has an epiphany on his deathbed and repents of his sins against God, then he goes to Heaven. But he didn't achieve his destiny, since that would have involved living a virtuous and God-fearing life. So Jamin finds the hard cases, the people standing on the precipice over the Pit, and slaps them around until they wake to the danger they are in. He doesn't really need to slam dunk so much as just make sure the ball goes through the hoop, so to speak. And the Elohite resonance is plenty sufficient for that. >I wonder how much you could justify ruining one person's life if you felt >it would have a huge effect on a lot of other people. I have a feeling that >perhaps the wind, unlike destiny, is not overly concerned with individuals. I think of things exactly the opposite way, oddly enough. Destiny are the big picture people, since they are focused on making absolutely everything work out in absolutely the best possible way. I find this makes them several notches spookier even than an angel like Jamin, whose ghost-of-Christmas-past act is at least comprehensible. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:03:50 +0100 From: "Nagasaki" Subject: Re: IN> IN: Some answers an' stuff >>How can tethers be destroyed? Is it enough to destroy the building >>or whatever location happens to be housing it? Can they be destroyed >from >>the Celestial side? Maybe just closed down and "boarded up" by >Superiors? If superiors could, they'd be at it all the time, and I think it's a bit too powerful to kill off just by ripping the corporeal form (house, temple, etc) apart >Here's my take; although, no one I know has gotten 'round to this kind >of behaviour yet (there's still hope), I would say that the 'reputation' >of the Tether is the most important part - the Word - as opposed to the >bricks and mortar. For instance, Jeffrey Dhamer's apartment building >becoming a Tether to Death. If the building could somehow be turned into >a school or shop, or otherwise 'recycled' for the benefit of the >community, then the stain of death is all but forgotten, then you would >have destroyed it (and quite possibly created a new one - and not >necessarily for good!). I notice in an earlier reply to this question, >someone mentioned an upcoming Tether supplement (also I've heard about a >'songbook'); I wonder if someone could give me the word on the upcoming >releases. All I know is that FotM is due out soon. Speaking as an >English gamer, I have no other source of reliable information on >forthcoming releases and plans, other than the odd rumour. I think I'm >living in a RPGing Black Hole unfortunately. Where are you exactly??? I know a lot of places to get RPG stuff in the UK, me being in Liverpool and having friends all over the place >David Edelstein said: >>The Spear of Destiny doesn't appear in the Liber Reliquarum because >>it's in >>Night Music (p. 39). Where??? the holy lance thingy??? >Marnie - wondering how many Kyrio does it take to change a light bulb? >"Red alert sir? Are you sure sir; it does mean changing the light bulb!" >( Kryten, serving aboard Red Dwarf) Actually, the boys from the Dwarf were in Starbug at the time Nagasaki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 18:18:46 -0000 From: David Wood Subject: IN> From one of my players... Sunday, we of Chez Ennui ("Good Food! Mediocre Content!") finished out our third In Nomine adventure. Thursday, I finally got around to updating that page of the campaign history. And this afternoon, I receive this in the mailbox from one of the players, followed by a request from *another* one of the players to post this somewhere. I won't mention names, but he plays Gwydionrodh, the Seraph of Yves, in my campaign. Look him up. - ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- .....I just visited Dave's upgraded Chez-site, and reality slipped for a moment or two into In Nomine, and previous conversations. It really DOES seem like, if In Nomine were applied to other genres, ObiWan Kenobi IS the ULTIMATE bal-seraph. He believes his own lies, and convinces others of them. Such as: * "You must learn the ways of the force." (Note here the sinister lighting on old Alec's eyes...) * "Your father was betrayed and murdered....." * "If you strike me down now, I shall become more *powerful* than you can possibly imagine." (Read: more DEAD, or more BLUE, but he never became powerful. Also, I would bet Vader could imagine something VERY powerful. * "You were our last hope." A LIE. The next line from Luke, who made his resonance check, was "Yoda spoke of another.." * "Ah, that would be your twin sister... blah blah blah,.... "that's why your sister remained safely anonymous", followed by Luke (rolling really well at this point) saying "Leia". "Your feelings do you justice...... '' Well, so much for safe anonymity. * And the classic "icing on the cake:" "Ben, why did you lie to me?" * ObiWan squirms on the fallen log, looks sheepish, digs himself out of the hole by equating Anakin's unfortunate succumbing to the Dark Side to being murdered, and sums up with "So, what I told you WAS true.....from a certain point of view" (correct... A Bal-Seraph's point-of-view.....how insidious!!) * Vader was the ONLY character to NOT lie. "I am your father." - direct, true, tactless!!!! "You aren't on any mercy mission.....If this is a consulate ship, where is the ambassador (as he chokes the poor guy to death)" - again, true, direct, accentuates his poor relationship with mortals, and is evidence of a strong vessel. (Is Vader, therefore, a Seraph????) * Was Han Solo an Ofanite (being obsessed with speed, the Millenium Falcon making the Kessel Run, etc...) * Chewbacca was a Cherub, attuned to Han Solo..) * What kind of an echo did Alderaan cause? Figures Kenobi felt it.... Was he LYING about the "negative" feeling he received?" * Just thoughts..... - ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:30:54 +0100 From: "Nagasaki" Subject: IN> Re: Gary Larson is cool Nagasaki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:05:37 PDT From: "Peter Martin" Subject: IN> Attunement Question I'm a newbie (You can tell by my green horns) I admit it. Bearing THAT in mind... I've spotted a potentially abusive attunement combo for Malakim of Eli in service to Laurence. Tell me if this works this way, and if not, why. Want to carry *anything* you may need with ya? Simply take Malakim of Eli and Scabbard. Bam! Since EVERYTHING can be used as a weapon, these angels could carry *anything* small enough with them! (Like say, anything not nailed down smaller than a S.A.W. or G.P.M.G.!) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:44:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Attunement Question On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Peter Martin wrote: > I'm a newbie (You can tell by my green horns) I admit it. Bearing THAT > in mind... I've spotted a potentially abusive attunement combo for > Malakim of Eli in service to Laurence. Tell me if this works this way, > and if not, why. Want to carry *anything* you may need with ya? Simply > take Malakim of Eli and Scabbard. Bam! Since EVERYTHING can be used as a > weapon, these angels could carry *anything* small enough with them! > (Like say, anything not nailed down smaller than a S.A.W. or G.P.M.G.!) I like your devious mind. I'm sure it'll be errataed if necessary, but let's see the exact wording... Scabbard This attunement lets the angel "sheathe" any number of weapons just outside of normal space, concealing them utterly until needed. Drawing a scabbarded weapon (the angel simply pulls it out of thin air) doesn't require a combat round -- it may be done instantaneously. Weapons stored with this attunemnt must be ones that the angel can personally wield -- it can't be used to hide field artillery. An M-60 is about the practical limit. Malakim of Eli Even working for the Archangel of Creation, Malakim are still powerful forces of destruction; they fight creatively. Anything they pick up can be used as a weapon with a Power equal to the check digit of a successful Perception roll, for the legnth of a single combat. The Malakim of Eli attunement only works for a single combat; if you try to Scabbard the non-weapon weapon, it's ceased to be a weapon. (Anyway, it doesn't say that the object *is* a weapon, which is what Scabbard requires, it says it "can be used as" a weapon.) Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:07:46 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> In Nomine - The Musical Yes, I have now gone totally weird, but for those who want to check out what happens when In Nomine meets Gilbert and Sullivan (and Cats, and Phantom of the Opera, and Grease, and Beauty and the Beast, and Les Miserables) try: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/fiction/Musical.html As sample: Dannah : Allow me to introduce myself. I'm a Seraph of Judgement. Tommy : Alleluia! Dannah : I've come to investigate for heresy, corruption, and so on. Please form an orderly line for interrogation. Fill in a red card if you have committed more than a dozen misdemeanours since your last encounter with a Servitor of Judgement. Tommy : Me first! I've got five counts of petty theft, seventy-nine for speeding, three hundred and fifty uses of bad language... Dannah : (to audience) This always happens. [Song - A Policeman's Lot Is Not A Happy One - _The Pirates Of Penzance_] Dannah : When an angel's not engaged in his deployment, Angels : His deployment Dannah : Or maturing his celestial little plans, Angels : Little plans Dannah : His capacity for criminal enjoyment Angels : 'nal enjoyment Dannah : Is just as great as any wicked man's. Angels : Wicked man's Dannah : My feelings I quite easily can smother, Angels : She can smother Dannah : Inquisitionary duties must be done: Angels : Must be done Dannah : Ah, take one consideration with another, Angels : With another Dannah : A Dominican's lot can be a happy one. Angels : Happy one All : If the Inquisition's duties must be done, must be done, A Dominican's lot can be a happy one. Dannah : When the enterprising Windy's not a-thieving, Angels : Not a-thieving Dannah : And the Gabrielite's not setting towns on fire, Angels : Towns on fire Dannah : They love to sing their hymns to high explosives, Angels : High explosives! Dannah : Auditioning for their Cathedral Choir. Angels : 'thedral Choir Dannah : When Creationers aren't wearing out their bedsprings, Angels : Out their bedsprings Dannah : They can occasionally get things done: Angels : Get things done Dannah : But, take one consideration with another Angels : With another Dannah : A Dominican's lot can be a happy one. Angels : Happy one All : If the Inquisition's duties must be done, must be done, A Dominican's lot can be a happy one. - --- (My thanks to arcangel, who HTMLised it.) - --- Maya, Elohite of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:43:33 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Re: On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Nagasaki wrote: > Gary Larson is cool > > Nagasaki ? And your point is...? You do have a point, right? Richard "Mr. Uriel" Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to capture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture a regiment, a detachment, or a company entire than to destroy them. -Sun Tzu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:11:27 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: IN> Quick Question Hey- I'm wondering if anyone has gotten around to doing, or thinking about, doing an In Nomine to Amber Diceless conversion? And if they have, can ya get in contact with me? Thanks! - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:38:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Attunement Question On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Peter Martin wrote: > > I'm a newbie (You can tell by my green horns) No, that'd make you a LILIM. Newbies wear propeller hats. > I admit it. Bearing THAT > in mind... I've spotted a potentially abusive attunement combo for > Malakim of Eli in service to Laurence. Tell me if this works this way, > and if not, why. Want to carry *anything* you may need with ya? Simply > take Malakim of Eli and Scabbard. Bam! Since EVERYTHING can be used as a > weapon, these angels could carry *anything* small enough with them! > (Like say, anything not nailed down smaller than a S.A.W. or G.P.M.G.!) Easily fixed. The GM just glares at the player and somberly states, "Laurence granted you this attunement, and it allows you to scabbard anything that LAURENCE considers a weapon. The skateboard does not vanish as you wished." Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! "relationshit - n. - A loss of Slack from a really bad relationship" -- MDisaster (#subgenii, us.sorcery.net) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:27:09 -0700 (PDT) From: daiv@cruzio.com (David M. Barr) Subject: Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind >Jo Hart wrote: >Well, I don't really think "achieving destiny" and "getting into >Heaven" are the same concept. If a guy has led a really crummy >life, but then has an epiphany on his deathbed and repents of his >sins against God, then he goes to Heaven. But he didn't achieve >his destiny, since that would have involved living a virtuous and >God-fearing life. >Neel Krishnaswami >neelk@alum.mit.edu Where, Exactly, in In Nomine (the game) does it say this? Can we please try to keep a consistent division between our persoanl beliefs about the way that the world works, and the way that the Canon of the Game is written? Note, I am not attacking anyones personal beliefs, nor do I have any problem with non cannon games. But I get really annooyed by people taking Religous cannon and citing it as game cannon. The two are Mutually Exclusive. <\Rant> Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:18:11 +0100 From: "Nagasaki" Subject: Re: IN> Re: >On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Nagasaki wrote: > >> Gary Larson is cool >> >> Nagasaki > >? > >And your point is...? > >You do have a point, right? > >Richard "Mr. Uriel" Gant I got a message to the list with a Gary Larson quote, telling me to write back to him if it reached the list... I got the wrong addy when I returned it Nagasaki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:32:33 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Rewrite of the combat system In a message dated 6/26/98 5:54:13 AM, you wrote: >What I actually wanted to say was that I liked your web page. Is it OK with >you if I link to it? (Incidentally, good luck with having a Mercurian of >Destiny as a PC -- I love the concept but I am not fond of any power in >which I have to ask the player not to use it on certain people (such as >other PCs). On the good side, she is a great player and we had some very >long and enlightening discussions about Fate, Destiny and Free Will in the >game :) Good luck!). In my game, I've got two Mercurians serving Yves... And I've been forced to pull some interesting stuff. When one of them resonates on Joe Random, I pull a Tarot card out of the deck, and show it to them. One NPC who wasn't supposed to be very important got the ten of swords, and started a new thread in the campaign... Mark(Cherub of Stone, Angel of Christian Esoteric Practictioners {for now...}) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #838 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.