From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jul 2 23:38:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18855 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:38:40 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id XAA07946 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:43:38 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:43:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199807030443.XAA07946@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #844 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, July 2 1998 Volume 01 : Number 844 In this digest: IN> Elohim of Marc IN> Heartless Free Lilim Re: IN> Who says the law has no sense of humor? Re: IN> Heartless Free Lilim Re: IN> Kronos... (Re: Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels Re: IN> Superior politics Re: IN> Elohim of Marc Re: IN> Heartless Free Lilim Re: IN> Heartless Free Lilim Re: IN> Human Soul hits Re: IN> Kronos... (Re: Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels Re: IN> Kronos... (Re: Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels IN> Riddle of the Sphinx IN> Daily Illuminator, July 1 (1998) IN> Riddle of the Sphinx Re: IN> Heartless Free Lilim Re: IN> Daily Illuminator, July 1 (1998) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 21:24:04 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: IN> Elohim of Marc Actually, I think Marc badly needs an extended write-up by someone who has a good deal of familiarity with economics, but then I feel the same way about books/movies/games that can't grasp even the basics of economic theory that a lot of my firends feel about the ones that botch the laws of physics. I've never yet met a fantasy world with trade systems that make any sense. However, for the moment I'll restrict myself to asking for some clarification of Marc's Elohim attunement. Actually, I'm mostly throwing out points hoping to generate some discussion. I have no idea if there are any sort of canon answers to them. "Fair market value" is a much more ambiguous, contextual concept than the one sentence description gives. Fair market value to whom? Where? Is this meant to give its value to its current owner? (Thus making it a slightly modified version of the Seraphim attunement.) Does it tell the angel the point at which the supply and demand curves intersect? If so, is it only for the location he's currently in, or does he have an idea of what the equilibrium point is somewhere else? Does he know the whole of the supply and demand curves, or merely the equilibrium point? In the case of an item that's unique, is the "fair market value" what it would receive at auction (economists LOVE auctions)? If so, does this assume that everyone would be present to bid, or is it the value that would be established by an auction among those currently present? Or who would be likely to show up with some publicity? What about in a situation where the market is not fair (using the economic definition of such)? The classic example is a rent controlled apartment in New York City? Would the angel get the price it's worth while being rented at the controlled price? Does he know what price the apartment would fetch if its current tenant dies and the rent becomes uncontrolled? This situation, in various forms, applies to any market in which regulation affects costs and values. Can the angel determine the price of something intangible? Take, for instance, my In Nomine rulebook. The fair market value for the book itself is $24.95. (This example assumes, of course, that SJG isn't ripping us off.) But what is the intellectual property of the game system itself worth? Or take an angel who works in banking. When asked to make a loan, it would be helpful to know what the business being used as collateral is worth. Can he tell this by holding an annual report? The company's balance sheet? Does he have to go around and touch every piece of physical capital it owns? And how does he assess the value of human capital or something like a brand name? Or does he just have to guess like us mere mortals. This all has come up because I'm sketching out some adventures that take place in the financial world, and conflict between Marc and Mammon would be a focal point. (You'd think I actually had gaming buddies that had any interest in IN.) Believe it or not, these kinds of questions would actually be important. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:14:09 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Heartless Free Lilim >>>(You can also keep them in the Marches, if they're made there, since Beleth's and Blandine's Servitors Hearts are there, but it's nearly as chancy a place as Hell to leave something important.)<<< Hearts are celestial objects, so cannot normally be taken to the Marches. Beleth and Blandine, being Superiors, can invoke different rules within their Domains, so their Servitors keeping their Hearts in their Towers are a special case. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:02:05 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Who says the law has no sense of humor? I love this sting operation scenario! Simple, but elegant. Well thought out backgrounds that mesh. Memorable NPCs. Its got it all! Coolness, so say I. tom t. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 06:22:39 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Heartless Free Lilim At 17:47 01/07/98 EDT, you wrote: >>On second thoughts, if I were Asmodeus I would _definitely_ have a standing >>offer to make hearts for any demon who was going to be spending time on >>earth without one! >:-) No cost ... other than of course I'd hold the >>hearts for safe-keeping. > >Ah, but there are implications that DPs can do nasty things to a demon, >if they've got access to the Heart. > Vicious lies and rumours! Its a great offer, one time only. No strings attached. (Not even heartstrings). If a heart is a means of control you'd think he'd favour earthbound demons having them. I think I would also let djinn track a heart from having attuned to the owner -- even at a huge penalty, they can still spend lots of essence -- and if a free lilim lets a game djinn attune to her then what can she expect. They could get extra brownie points from their superior for being able to track lilim hearts in their spare time and .. remove them for safe keeping in Hades or something. (Hee. New discord: Heartstrings Your heart has strings attached. Through them your superior can not only track you around but also control your vessel as completely as a marionette, if he wants to do so, even if he isn't really thinking about it. So can anyone who has access to your heart. Once per day, or whenever you are in a situation in which your superior has a particular personal interest, make a will roll at a minus of this discord or else.. your vessel/ host is temporarily no longer under your control. (This could be especially bad for Demons of Dark Humour) ) The other prince who I really think would happily make hearts for the heartless is Valefor. Probably vessels too. After all, why should he make his own demons when he can just steal other people's? There are plenty of young demons in hell who would be happy to sell themselves out for a shot at the corporeal world -- so all the thieves have to do is audition a few hopefuls, especially those who have managed to annoy their own prince. Come to think of it, every Theft NPC I have ever used _was_ created by someone else... jo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:20:08 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Kronos... (Re: Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 02:50:50PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >WRT Kronos, remember that he has the Seraphic dissonance, > > You are assuming that he's taken that as his "Choir"... Or that > he can't change his chosen "Choir" in a heartbeat. > I assumed that he had all the major angelic resonances, at once. (On balance I think he probably isn't one of the Menunim as well. Ordering other people to interfere might well count as interference.) I assume this on the grounds that you can't give out abilities you don't possess, and I assume this to be especially true in the context of abilities as alien to Balseraphs as angelic resonances. (I'm not sure if Balseraph Elohim or Balseraph Cherubim freak me more.) > Besides, canon Kronos isn't a Balseraph -- he's Yves' dark > reflection, or the part of Yves that Fell, or something. IIRC, he was made into a Balseraph, though. > >and according to the IPG can't use his Balseraph resonance > >to alter his opinion of what is true. > > (C'mon, cite the page -- I don't recall that statement anywhere!) > I can't cite the page, because my only copy belongs to someone else, but it's in the description of the Balseraph of Fate attunement, where it says that Balseraph Seraphim can't use their resonance full stop. I am aware that this has been either errataed somewhat or been slated for errata, but this much holds: a Balseraph Seraph can't read something he knows to be true, and then decide it isn't true (obviously, I'm assuming it is true, and there is no evidence to the contrary) without using the Balseraph resonance in a dissonant manner, thus preventing him from using the Balseraph resonance. They are, after all, lying to themselves. > >[...] And I don't believe Kronos can successfully Balseraph Baal. > > You don't need to Balseraph a Bal, you just have to get them to > self-resonate and think it was their own idea... > I presume you're referring to informal self-resonance and not the "succeed in one Will roll and then fail the next one" trick in the IPG. And I stand by my inference that Baal would be alert to such manipulations. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:57:22 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Superior politics On Tue, Jun 30, 1998 at 03:56:04AM +0100, Jo Hart wrote: > >>No, the Diceless model is for running a game which is composed of PC > >>Superiors - more importantly, PC Demon Princes. I don't think that the > >>Archangels would have the same level of backstabbing, evil, angry, nasty > >>politics that Demon Princes (and Amberites) attempt to attain. > > > >Maybe I'm weird, but I find the politics of Heaven a lot more > >interesting than the machinations of Hell. Hell is full of a > >bunch of self-centered sociopaths who are perfectly willing > >to see the universe end to satisfy a whim. > Enlightened self-interest keeps them somewhat in check, though. And it's usually necessary to keep at least the framework of Hell intact, or their own positions won't survive. So you have fifty or so different cold wars in a very small place. (And that's just Baal's headquarters. Think of what the whole of Hell is like.) & I decided that > the politics in hell might be more interesting at a sub-superior level. > This was mainly because Princes don't meet very often and are busy with > their own schemes for a lot of the time. It works on such a huge level that > I thought it might be a pain trying to keep tracks of everyone's myriad > plans and servitors. There's the chain of command, which is admittedly more real for some Superiors than others. Also, one imagines that Baal, Asmodeus and Malphas are a lot more likely to know all their named Servitors' names than, say, Andrealphus. (Does Andrealphus even know the names of those (s)he's sleeping with?) What I was thinking was to have PCs at the level of > either newly wordbound demons or Knights/ Barons There's a pretty big difference between the scope of a Knight's operations and a Baron's. I don't really think there's all that much difference between a Baron and a Duke, or between a Knight and a starting PC. Politics at the Ducal level might be fun, though it would have a lot of the problems associated with playing Superiors. The Demon of Treachery probably knows almost all Servitors of Factions (those that Malphas made sure he didn't find out about escaped), and a considerable number of other demons (and angels) as well. The art of politics at > that level lies in keeping your servants under control, trying to one-up > your co-equals, Or set them up, as the case may be. > I kind of liked the juxtaposition of having one session in which there is a > lot of backstabbing hellside politics, and following it up with one or more > of the PCs having to make a dash to earth to stop an over enthusiastic > Shedite from having too much evil squicky fun and accidentally screwing up > one of their 'allies'. Definitely more Knightly than Baronial. > >Of all the main rulebook Princes, the only ones I find really > >compelling are Baal and Lilith, since they seem to be the only > >two with even a hint of more than purely self-aggrandizing > >natures. I partly agree with this, though I'm not sure about Vapula and Kronos. (The others are interesting, especially Asmodeus, but > >you can't really make a *story* around them.) > > Malphas is a story all by himself. I find constant amusement in inventing stuff about Stygian politics, and how he stirs up aggravation by handing out Words related to religion to all Bands except Habbalah, by handing out Words with almost identical meanings (consider the Demon of Treachery and the Demon of Infidelity), and so forth. Also because it is more likely that they'll be able to > meet opposing AAs without trying to kill each other (which may not be what > you wanted, of course ;) ). > Only a very few DPs have the personal might necessary to off another without being severely weakened. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 11:25 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Elohim of Marc >However, for the moment I'll restrict myself to asking for some >clarification of Marc's Elohim attunement. Actually, I'm mostly >throwing out points hoping to generate some discussion. I have no idea >if there are any sort of canon answers to them. "Fair market value" is >a much more ambiguous, contextual concept than the one sentence >description gives. Fair market value to whom? Where? I think I'd say that Elohim of Trade tap into the themes of the Symphony having to do with pricing and economic value. Perhaps the easiest way to think of it would to be consider them an expert trader in the type of item under consideration. Thus, they would be able to determine "fair market value" under any number of circumstances, and be able to enumerate what those circumstances would be. I.e., they would know what sort of market would be best for the item, as well as what it would be worth there, and they'd also know roughly what you'd get for it if you sold it at a yard sale. I don't think I'd allow them to determine what *a specific individual* would value the item at, since that would subsume Marc's Seraphim attunement. However, the normal Elohite resonance would give some clues to how eager or disinterested a potential buyer was. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 11:30 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Heartless Free Lilim >>>>(You can also keep them in the Marches, if they're made there, since >Beleth's and Blandine's Servitors Hearts are there, but it's nearly as >chancy a place as Hell to leave something important.)<<< > >Hearts are celestial objects, so cannot normally be taken to the Marches. >Beleth and Blandine, being Superiors, can invoke different rules within >their Domains, so their Servitors keeping their Hearts in their Towers are >a special case. But any Heart must be made by a Superior, so, in theory, any Superior could choose to make a Heart that could be taken to the Marches, or make one there. Or are you saying that the Towers, being Tethers to the celestial, make them special cases, and thus Dreams and Nightmare Servitors couldn't actually take their Hearts into the Marches proper? I could see that interpretation. I suppose you could also say that only those Superiors directly connected with the Marches can make/keep Hearts there. (That suggests that *maybe* Gabriel could also do it.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 11:38 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Heartless Free Lilim >>>On second thoughts, if I were Asmodeus I would _definitely_ have a standing >>>offer to make hearts for any demon who was going to be spending time on >>>earth without one! >:-) No cost ... other than of course I'd hold the >>>hearts for safe-keeping. >> >>Ah, but there are implications that DPs can do nasty things to a demon, >>if they've got access to the Heart. > >Vicious lies and rumours! Its a great offer, one time only. No strings >attached. (Not even heartstrings). Lilim weren't born yesterday -- even the ones who were.... >If a heart is a means of control you'd think he'd favour earthbound demons >having them. I agree with you and David -- Asmodeus doesn't like the idea of *any* demon without a Heart. > I think I would also let djinn track a heart from having >attuned to the owner -- even at a huge penalty, they can still spend lots >of essence -- and if a free lilim lets a game djinn attune to her then what >can she expect. They could get extra brownie points from their superior for >being able to track lilim hearts in their spare time and .. remove them >for safe keeping in Hades or something. Yeah, except that no sensible Free Lilim is going to *want* a Heart. Spending time in Limbo once in a while is a small price to pay to stay free, in their view. Or so it works in my game. >The other prince who I really think would happily make hearts for the >heartless is Valefor. Probably vessels too. After all, why should he make >his own demons when he can just steal other people's? Vessels, yes -- in our game, most Free Lilim start out by bargaining for a vessel with Andre, Valefor, or Nybbas -- the three "easy" Princes.... But letting a Superior make you a Heart is the next best thing to binding to them, and the Free have chosen not to do that out of love of (their own) freedom. A Free who is close to binding to a Prince might do it as a transition stage, but I can't see it otherwise. Princes just aren't trustworthy (except for Lilith), and Lilim are born knowing this. > There are plenty of >young demons in hell who would be happy to sell themselves out for a shot >at the corporeal world -- so all the thieves have to do is audition a few >hopefuls, especially those who have managed to annoy their own prince. If Valefor does this *too* much, he'll draw fire from the other Princes. But it's probably not rare, either..... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 11:46 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Human Soul hits >> Those abilities that can cause soul hits to someone in a vessel are >> supposed to be limited to not take the last soul hit (i.e., the one that >> would remove a Force). This may need errata (I don't have my books here). > >Hate to beat a horse to death, but doesn't this swing the power level of >those abilities to the other extreme, making them nigh-useless against >humans? Nope -- it depends on what you're trying to do with them. Beleth isn't interested in killing humans, just terrorizing them, so the fact that Terror causes soul hits is just a side effect. The other case I can think of is the Calabite of Lust attunement. Yes, it's probably not terribly useful against humans, but again, it may be a side effect. Or maybe if the human dies soon, it "imprints" the soul as belonging to Andre... we don't have much canon yet on how DPs get assigned souls. > If the ability to strip a force is removed, and humans are >not susceptible to "normal" Celestial attack, then they just sit around >and regenerate the lost Soul hits or stay at 1 Soul hit forever, if you >keep Terrorizing him. Perpetual Terror probably sounds just fine to Beleth.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 11:54 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Kronos... (Re: Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels >> >WRT Kronos, remember that he has the Seraphic dissonance, >> >> You are assuming that he's taken that as his "Choir"... Or that >> he can't change his chosen "Choir" in a heartbeat. >> >I assumed that he had all the major angelic resonances, at once. I'd say more likely that he has access to them at will, but not necessarily all the time -- he would find the combined dissonance conditions uncomfortable, at the least. >> Besides, canon Kronos isn't a Balseraph -- he's Yves' dark >> reflection, or the part of Yves that Fell, or something. > >IIRC, he was made into a Balseraph, though. Into something that people *think* is one. Including him, maybe. >> >and according to the IPG can't use his Balseraph resonance >> >to alter his opinion of what is true. >> >> (C'mon, cite the page -- I don't recall that statement anywhere!) >> >I can't cite the page, because my only copy belongs to someone else, but >it's in the description of the Balseraph of Fate attunement, where it says >that Balseraph Seraphim can't use their resonance full stop. Actually, it says that they take dissonance for using their Bal resonance. So they *can* use it, it's just not good for them. > I am aware >that this has been either errataed somewhat or been slated for errata, but >this much holds: a Balseraph Seraph can't read something he knows to be >true, and then decide it isn't true (obviously, I'm assuming it is >true, and there is no evidence to the contrary) without using the >Balseraph resonance in a dissonant manner, thus preventing him from using >the Balseraph resonance. They are, after all, lying to themselves. Taking dissonance for using it isn't the same thing as being prevented from using it. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:48:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Kronos... (Re: Jordi, most dissonant of Archangels At 1:20 PM +0100 7/2/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 02:50:50PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >WRT Kronos, remember that he has the Seraphic dissonance, >> >> You are assuming that he's taken that as his "Choir"... Or that >> he can't change his chosen "Choir" in a heartbeat. >> >I assumed that he had all the major angelic resonances, at once. Considering that he's a Superior, I wouldn't put it past him to be able to play all sorts of games to access those, without getting dissonance. >(I'm not sure if Balseraph Elohim or >Balseraph Cherubim freak me more.) BalElohim. BalCherubim are just Djinn obsessing. >> Besides, canon Kronos isn't a Balseraph -- he's Yves' dark >> reflection, or the part of Yves that Fell, or something. > >IIRC, he was made into a Balseraph, though. Lucifer *told* everyone he was a Bal. Kronos tells everyone he's a Bal. (Our Yves thinks Kronos may *think* he's a Bal.) But he's not a Bal. >> >and according to the IPG can't use his Balseraph resonance >> >to alter his opinion of what is true. >> >> (C'mon, cite the page -- I don't recall that statement anywhere!) >> >I can't cite the page, because my only copy belongs to someone else, but >it's in the description of the Balseraph of Fate attunement, where it says >that Balseraph Seraphim can't use their resonance full stop. Ah, there it is. Can't use the Balseraph Resonance without suffering dissonance. Okay (slightly different than altering opinion, so I was getting confused). Right. He can change his mind, of course, but not self-resonate. >>>[...] And I don't believe Kronos can successfully Balseraph Baal. >> >>You don't need to Balseraph a Bal, you just have to get them to >>self-resonate and think it was their own idea... >> >I presume you're referring to informal self-resonance and not the "succeed >in one Will roll and then fail the next one" trick in the IPG. Yah. You convince them that they thought of the idea, and they convince themselves, why, yes, it's a brilliant idea and they *did* think of it! This works better with mere Bals, than a certain Baalseraph, of course, but Superiors are tricky beasties. When they interact, they may be able to treat each other much as a pair of normal celestials would treat each other. >And I stand >by my inference that Baal would be alert to such manipulations. Oh, of course. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:53:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Gastonguay Subject: IN> Riddle of the Sphinx First off, for all those who have sent in their best riddles, thanx. I've got a whole ton of riddles now, and a new problem has arrisen. Which one do I use? so what I plan on doing, is listing them here, and those you can answer(and I know how intelligent you all are)I will keep: 1. I never was, am always to be, None ever saw me, nor ever will, And yet I am the confidence of all Who live and breathe on this terrestrial ball. 2. Fatherless and motherless, Born without a skin, Spoke when it came into our world And never spoke again (a silly one) 3. What belongs to you, But others use it more than you do? 4. Light as a feather, Nothing in it. A stout man can't hold it More than a minute. 5. What is it that you will break even as you name it? 6. My first is in an apple and also in pear, My second is in desperate and also in dare, My third is in sparrow and also in lark, My fourth is in cashier and also in clerk, My fifth is in seven and also in ten, My whole is a blessing indeed unto men. More to come, don't want to hold up the list. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 17:28:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Daily Illuminator, July 1 (1998) Okay, for all of you who've been asking... July 1, 1998: Fall of the Malakim to the Printer! Let the trumpets blow! (But not all of them . . .) Book IV of The Revelations Cycle, Fall of the Malakim, has gone to the printer. Fall of the Malakim takes place in Los Angeles (and includes tons of adventure ideas for your own campaign that can be played out in the mis-named City of Angels). A Malakite of David has earned his Archangel's wrath, and to teach him a lesson, David has sent him to demon-dominated L.A. with instructions to observe and report only -- not to attack, not to destroy. It's against his nature, but the pain caused will be a useful lesson . . . besides, David figures, Malakim can't Fall, so there's no real danger, right? Right? Fall of the Malakim will be in stores in late July. (From http://www.sjgames.com/ill) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:19:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Gastonguay Subject: IN> Riddle of the Sphinx Well, it seems that you're enjoying these, so I will continue: 7. It has neither mouth, nor teeth, nor bowels; Yet it eats its food steadily. It has neither village, nor home, nor hands, nor feet; Yet it wanders everywhere. It has neither country, nor means, nor office, nor pen; Yet it is ready for fight always. By day and by night there is wailing about it. It has no breath; yet to all it appears. What is It? 8. This thing all things devours: Birds, beasts, trees, flowers; Gnaws iron, bites steel; Grinds hard stones to meal; Slays king, ruins town, And beats high mountain down. 9. I am the black child of a white father; a wingless bird, flying even to the clouds of heaven. I give birth to tears of mourning in pupils that meet me, and at once on my birth I am dissolved into air. What am I? 10. There are two sisters; one gives birth to the other, and herself having brought forth is born from the other, so that being sisters and of one blood they are actually sisters and mothers in common. What are the two names of the sisters? Still more to come! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 09:28:38 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Heartless Free Lilim Walter wrote: > But any Heart must be made by a Superior, so, in theory, any Superior > could choose to make a Heart that could be taken to the Marches, or make > one there. I think this was clarified (possibly by Elizabeth or John) a long time ago. It came down to the wording of the section on Hearts. Hearts can not BE TAKEN FROM HEAVEN OR HELL. The Hearts of Blandine and Beleth's followers were created in the Marches, thus never were in Heaven or Hell to be taken from. There may be some merit in saying they couldn't therefore leave the Marches, or that they could be taken to the celestial realm, but wouldn't be able to leave again. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:25:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Daily Illuminator, July 1 (1998) - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > Okay, for all of you who've been asking... > > July 1, 1998: Fall of the Malakim to the Printer! > Fall of the Malakim will be in stores in late July. > With that and a certain MARVELous RPG coming in two weeks...I will be a broke puppy... ...but a HAPPY broke puppy! Graveyard Greg, loving ORIGINS '98! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #844 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.