From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jul 8 10:31:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21302 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:31:07 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id JAA07606 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:45:48 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:45:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199807081445.JAA07606@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #848 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, July 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 848 In this digest: Re: IN> tarot cards Re: IN> Word-Bound Servitors of David Re: IN> tarot cards Re: IN> tarot cards Re: IN> Heartless Free Lilim RE: IN> tarot cards RE: IN> tarot cards Re: IN> A question & a possible erratum Re: IN> Soul hits again (yeah I know), Grigori murders, books, and stuff (longish!) IN> The INdex is code complete. IN> Heartless Free Lilim Re: IN> tarot cards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:51:45 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> tarot cards >Being a Tarot reader, I can point you in a couple good directions. > >But, if you're creative, you don't really need a book. Tarot cards and their >meanings really tend to be based on the picture on the card. > >- Gryph > >Tim Seiger wrote: A brief warning here, not all Tarot decks have illustrated minor arcana (suits). A few tend to have things like you might find in a normal deck of cards. For instance, the Dragon Tarot is on such deck. You might want to find a place that will let you look at a full set before you buy them. Just some friendly advise, Armand ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:13:16 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Word-Bound Servitors of David >>Peter Wrote >>Anybody else have any ideas? Angel of Bridges (an Eloite) > Mark(Cherub of Stone on my good days) >I don't think David has any Word-bound Kyrios, but that's just me... Except for the Angel of Garden Gnomes :) . Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:10:34 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> tarot cards Tim Seiger writes: > I've wanted to use unusual things >like Tarot cards, runes, or other not normally seen props to spice up a >game. Unfortunately I'm not all that familiar with the meanings of all >that tarot cards. > >Could someone point me to a good reference, A week ago I acquired 'A Guide to the Occult & Mysticism' (Geddes & Grosset) ISBN 1-85534-338-X It has chapters on; Astrology, the Sun Signs, The I-Ching, Numerology, Palmistry and the Tarot. Each chapter is highly detailed. The Tarot section, for example, has information on the cards' possible origins, full descriptions of each card (including the _Minor Arcana_), their divinatory and reversed meanings, special considerations, pictorial symbolism etc, and also looks at the various spreads used to divine with them. Also included are; The Prophecies of Nostrodamus. A section on Dreams and their interpretation (excellent for the Marches) and a simple A-Z of the Occult. A truly magnificent book, which was an even better buy, due to it being in one of our cut-price bookstores for a fiver. - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 09:08:21 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> tarot cards For a literary example of tarot cards as a supernatural artifact, see "The Greater Trumps" by Charles Williams. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 04:47:38 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Heartless Free Lilim At 3:14 PM -0400 7/6/98, Walter Milliken wrote: >OK, then what I was arguing from about Beleth and Blandine wouldn't >apply. But it makes it *much* harder for Beleth's Servitors to go >Renegade if that's true. Well, isn't stealing your Heart from the Princess of Nightmares rather suicidal anyway? According to the IPG, she's attuned to them all, and she'll notice the moment you steal yours. Shouldn't be too hard for her to obtain a permanent attunement if she wants one, and all she has to do is let her Renegade Hunters know "He's nipped off with his heart to Abbadon/Olympus/The Dreamlands. Go get 'im." ===== ><{{"> =================================================== <"}}>< ====== Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Senaieas, Shedite Baron of Lust, the Demon of Voyeurism nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu | Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh maltesh@usa.net | In Nomine: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh/T317 ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:16:38 +0100 From: "Ellen Kakkaratchi" Subject: RE: IN> tarot cards > A little while ago someone posted that they use Tarot cards to determine > destinies and fates of anyone who doesn't already have one (per GM fiat). > > Forgive me for not searching the digests to determine who suggested this, > but I thought it was a supreme idea. I've wanted to use unusual things > like Tarot cards, runes, or other not normally seen props to spice up a > game. Unfortunately I'm not all that familiar with the meanings of all > that tarot cards. > > Could someone point me to a good reference, or if the person who suggested > this idea has some writeup of destinies and fates for each card, or even > just some of them, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > -Tim > Hi, I've just lurked on this list before, but this was a challenge I could not ignore. I was not the poster of the original idea, but I liked the idea and as an ex-professional tarot reader, thought I could come up with some possible Destinies and Fates. Please note, these are only suggestions, there are many, many more possible interpretations. I am only doing the Major Arcana, but if people like them I might do the rest. I'll post them a bit at a time to avoid long lists. 0 Fool Upright: beginnings, innocence, childlike enthusiasm, the Great Journey. Reversed: obstacles, naiveté, apathy, stupidity, hesitation Destiny: An ideal card for artists and writers at the beginning of new great works. Someone with great faith in life who inspire others through their actions, Forest Gump types, entrepreneurs who succeed against all odds. Soldiers of Blandine perhaps, or even Yves. Fate: At the very least, an artist too apathetic or blocked to succeed. Someone who could become destructively cynical, tearing apart the enthusiasm of others, a savage art critic perhaps, or an oppressive parent. Perhaps a designer of those impossible images of women that promote eating disorders. Anyone who, too afraid or stupid to attempt something worthwhile themselves, tries to belittle, limit or destroy the attempts of others. Servitors of Kobal or Malphas might be interested in those with this fate. 1 Magician Upright: creative will, skill, power, manipulation, confidence Reversed: misuse of power, misdirection, vanity and ego, ineptitude Destiny: Again an artist's card, but this time the more social arts, such as acting or even politics. Someone who oozes charisma and personal power and uses it for 'good'. People that do big, clever, grandiose things: astronauts, peace negotiators, brain surgeons, aircraft pilots and naval captains. Many areas watched over by Jean's servitors would attract those with this fate. Fate: People whose ineptitude causes a loss of life (people who fail to shut safety doors or check break cables, people who fall asleep at the wheel, lazy or inept doctors, owners of companies that pollute, etc.). Definitely one for Vapula. 2 High Priestess Upright: intuition, psychic sense, introversion, perception, hidden truths, serenity Reversed: prejudice and ignorance, emotions effecting judgement, superficiality Destiny: counsellors and therapists, psychics, mystics, people who help others understand themselves and the world. Those who serve elohim. Fate: petty napoleons, gossips and scandal mongers, any that are influenced by Malphas and many under the thumb of Nybbas. 3 Empress Upright: fertility, nurturing, all that is motherly, creativity, practicality Reversed: hedonism, selfishness, abusiveness, carelessness Destiny: good parents, agony aunts/uncles, care workers, animal welfare officers, nurses, charity workers, those who actively work towards making the world a better, kinder place. Soldiers of Novalis or of Cherubim Fate: abusive parents, neglecting parents, those who take pleasure in the suffering of others, gluttons, sex-aholics, porn-industry manipulators and pimps, the users and abusers of the world. Those influenced by Andrealphus or Haagenti. Shedim fodder. 4 Emperor Upright: worldly power, dominance, self-control, authority, stability Reversed: chaos, lack of discipline or control, immaturity, vacillation Destiny: politicians and world leaders (the non corrupt ones!), corporate heads (ditto), police officers and the military (yeah, yeah, yeah), those who have the power to make national or international decisions and use their power wisely. Perhaps someone destined to only have power once, suddenly grabbing the media limelight perhaps, but to use this brief power in a positive, world benefiting way. Perhaps those influenced by David or by Seraphim. Fate: All the above, but corrupt or blind or lazy or stupid. Those in positions of power who abuse the privilege or neglect their duties. Perhaps those otherwise mediocre leaders who are fated to make one awe-inspiringly bad decision. Those under the sway of balseraphs or Baal. 5 Hierophant Upright: orthodoxy, advice and guidance, social correctness, conformity Reversed: unorthodoxy, weirdness, rejection, denial, outcast Destiny: spiritual leaders, teachers, judges, family doctors, moral and spiritual guides, social focal points (alpha males and females in a friend group!), sport coaches and community leaders who guide and aid their charges positively. Everyone's favourite primary school teacher for example, the one that listened patiently and helped inspire us in things that still interest us today. Alternatively, rebel leaders, those who change the status quo. Soldiers of Eli (if he has any) or of Mercurians. Fate: those fated to become drunks or tramps, those who don't fit it, or lack vital social skills. The ugly, the mentally ill, those that don't conform to social norms and are outcast as a result. The low and the wretched, the outsiders. Alternatively, those who use social norms to oppress - the neo-nazi, the fashion designer, the advertising exec, the local queen bee. A third alternative is the destructive cult leader, the guru who leads his followers into violence or suicide. 6 Lovers Upright: choice and free will, opportunity, possibility, optimism, bright future Reversed: reduction, limitation, separation, frustration, unreliability Destiny: Someone destined to be part of something great. A great romance, or a social circle that will be remembered for it's creativity. Perhaps a member of a team of scientists who develop the cure for cancer. Fate: Someone fated to lose out on a great opportunity. Perhaps someone who loses a winning lottery ticket, or that guy that left the Beatles before they hit stardom. Those fallen victim to Kobal. 7 Chariot Upright: harnessed power, victory, vengeance, self assertion, turmoil Reversed: cowardice, defeat, weakness, failure, collapse Destiny: great sportsmen and women, military commanders, people who surge to victory with the hopes of their nation behind them. Evangelist preachers, prosecuting attorneys, all presuming their victories benefit society. Those influenced by either Laurence or Michael, soldiers aligned to Malakim. Fate: Those that fall at the last hurdle, who give up when the end is in sight. Students who fail to hand in their final treatise and therefore fail their degree, doctors that give up with resuscitation one breath too soon, discouraged journalists who fail to ask that one last all important question. Those who lack the self-belief, will-power or stamina to complete their tasks. Those who have fallen prey to a djinn's negativity. 8 Strength Upright: will-power, strength, determination, rising to the challenge Reversed: weakness, illness, capitulation, surrender, impotence Destiny: the disabled or disadvantaged person who succeeds against all odds, the freedom fighter, the suffragette, conscientious objector, the self-made man or woman. The beloved of David or even Lilith. Fate: Those debilitated by cruel disease or by life circumstance or backgrounds just too massive to overcome. Those stalked by Saminga. Perpetual victims, those caught in circles of abuse. Those already in a hell of their own. That's all for now, more to follow. "Love is for fools and all fools are lovers It's raining on my house and none of the others The sidewalks are full of love's lonely children The sidewalk regrets that it had to kill them" I am, as always, Ellen (Lilim of Self-Indulgent Avoidance Tactics) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:47:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Seiger Subject: RE: IN> tarot cards On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Ellen Kakkaratchi wrote: > Hi, > I've just lurked on this list before, but this was a challenge I could not > ignore. I was not the poster of the original idea, but I liked the idea and > as an ex-professional tarot reader, thought I could come up with some > possible Destinies and Fates. Please note, these are only suggestions, there > are many, many more possible interpretations. I am only doing the Major > Arcana, but if people like them I might do the rest. I'll post them a bit at > a time to avoid long lists. > > 0 Fool > 8 Strength > > That's all for now, more to follow. > I can't wait. Wow. I just want to say that I have been nothing but impressed at the response from the list on this. I've lurked for a while, and lost the list a few times due to changing emails, but this is a great testament to the kind of people that read this list. I can not thank you all enough for all the pointers and help, I plan on a lot of Tarot research over the rest of the summer. But the above cited was what I really had in mind. My hope was to eventually generate a list of destinies and fates for each card in the deck. My goal was to create several lists with a single destiny and fate for each card, then give these to my servitors of Yves. That way I can tell the player the card draw, and he can look it up himself as I continue, but there is some variety, should I have more than one PC serving Yves, they won't be able to read eachothers cards. Anyhow, Ellen, if you have the time (you obviously have the knowledge), and the desire to work out destinies and fates for each card, I for one can't wait to see them. They'll come to good use in my campaign next fall. And once again, thanks for all the response. By the end of the summer I should be much more Tarot literate. Thanks, - -Tim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:59:40 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A question & a possible erratum At 9:52 AM -0700 7/6/98, Michael Bowman wrote: >I have a question on the Elohim's extended resonance. Can an Elohite have >resonanted on multiple people? p. 42: "This sense can be maintained as long as the angel doesn't use his resonance for anything else [...]" -- such as resonating someone else. So nope, the Sophisticated Use of Resonance is a one-person-at-a-time trick. >The possible erratum: >Under Yves' Choir Attunements is says that they all provide information >without taking into account celestial influence. Yet in the Mercurians' >Yves entry in the APG it says they can use their resonance to >pre-identify people that celestials are going to be screwing around with. >I suspect that isn't correct, since they should be getting a mortal's >fortune without celestial influence. Errata, yes. I'll send that to the errata coordinator. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:50:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Soul hits again (yeah I know), Grigori murders, books, and stuff (longish!) At 10:41 AM -0700 7/3/98, Martin Arnold wrote: >Concerning the thread on Soul Hits I've just been browsing through the >rulebook, I wanted to ask a similar question. Are forces lost when the >total damage in one single attack exceeds the total soul hits of the >target, or after cumulative damage? Cumulative, I believe. Once a Force is lost, recalculate everything accordingly (like Soul hits, if you lost a Celestial Force), and start over. (Any excess damage probably gets applied to this new value instantly. A GM could decide to be kind and let it not, of course.) >In fact while I was browsing that section of the rulebook, I noticed >something that gave me an idea. Thereís a little section at the bottom >of the paragraph on p.67 under Physical Death and After, that states >ëwhen a corporeal vessel of a celestial (including an ethereal spirit, >or Child of the Grigori) is killed, his Forces regroup in the celestial >realm,í. This is errata'ed -- if a Heartless celestial is vessel-killed, he goes to Limbo. Ethereals go to the ethereal Domain they came from. >I would also like to ask peoples advice on how to portray the Superiors >in the game. What experiences have other GMís had and what tips can they >share? Hm. I'd check out the fiction section of the INC (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/fiction.html) and the "Night of a Million Jillion Superiors" (well, the Fiat Justitia game, where the players *have* joked about carrying autograph books) at http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html and there's some neat stuff at Em's Holy War page, http://www-personal.umich.edu/~zenith/in-nomine/stories.html (especially http://www-personal.umich.edu/~zenith/in-nomine/logs/npclog9.html http://www-personal.umich.edu/~zenith/in-nomine/logs/npclog10b.html). >I have just brought a book similar to the Dictionary of Angels (as >recommended in the Rulebook). Note that IN canon will *not* necessarily follow any dictionary, legend, or bible... (It may, but then again...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:50:36 -0700 From: "Steven Feldon (Exchange)" Subject: IN> The INdex is code complete. I apologize to any of you that have seen me mention this before. . . .Lonnie Foster and I have put together, with SJG's approval and Archangel Beth's invaluable assistance, a website cataloging all characters that have appeared in any In Nomine book. We've also put together queries for the database so that you can see many different slices of the data.We've reached a kind of code-complete stage--not everything's perfect, but everything works--and we'd like to both announce this as a useful resource and to request suggestions and possible improvements. Nothing's too small, and every idea will be taken seriously. (We may not be able to _do_ anything about it, but we'll consider it.)The website is at http://www.serv.net/~srf/index, and you can mail me suggestions and feedback at srf@serv.net. I hope you find this useful and interesting. :) (After this point, I promise I won't mention the darn INdex without having some other non-Index content as well. :) ) steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:59:58 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Heartless Free Lilim >>>OK, then what I was arguing from about Beleth and Blandine wouldn't apply. But it makes it *much* harder for Beleth's Servitors to go Renegade if that's true.<<< No harder than for any other demon -- break your Heart, and run. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:01:58 -0300 From: Marcelo Soares Subject: Re: IN> tarot cards At 08:52 06/07/1998 -0400, you wrote: >A little while ago someone posted that they use Tarot cards to determine >destinies and fates of anyone who doesn't already have one (per GM fiat). > >Forgive me for not searching the digests to determine who suggested this, >but I thought it was a supreme idea. I've wanted to use unusual things >like Tarot cards, runes, or other not normally seen props to spice up a >game. Unfortunately I'm not all that familiar with the meanings of all >that tarot cards. > >Could someone point me to a good reference, or if the person who suggested >this idea has some writeup of destinies and fates for each card, or even >just some of them, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. > >-Tim Maybe you could see something like this in the Everway Game by Rubicon Games, it has a gaming system based in a Fortune Deck wich is based in Tarot Decks. just 2 cents Mauriel, malekim of creation in the service of fire ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #848 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.