From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Jul 13 13:14:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06953 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:14:55 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id NAA18165 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:01:45 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:01:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199807131801.NAA18165@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #853 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, July 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 853 In this digest: IN> [NPC] Evi, Impudite of the Game Re: IN> Angels and Governments IN> A little Knowledge... IN> The Pleasure Principle IN> Getting there(more from the Riddler) Re IN> A little Knowledge... Re: Re IN> A little Knowledge... Re: Re IN> A little Knowledge... IN> Cherubs and their vessels. Re: IN> Angels and Governments Re: IN> The Pleasure Principle Re: IN> Getting there(more from the Riddler) Re: IN> The Pleasure Principle Re: IN> The Pleasure Principle Re: IN> Angels and Governments Re: IN> Princes and Renegades Re: IN> Riddler question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:32:49 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: IN> [NPC] Evi, Impudite of the Game Another session yesterday, and it seemed like every angel in town showed up to get a 6 on its resonance roll on Evi. There simply aren't enough secrets left in her background for it to be worthwhile for me to refrain from posting her. :) - -- Evi Impudite of the Game "Good is a good doctor, but Bad is sometimes a better." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson Corporeal Forces 3 -- Strength 5 Agility 7 Ethereal Forces 4 -- Intelligence 8 Precision 8 Celestial Forces 4 -- Will 10 Perception 6 Vessel: Human Female/2, Charisma +1 (Glamorous), Cat/1, Crow/1 Role: Private Investigator/4, Status/3 Skills: Fighting/3, Firearms/3, Dodge/5, Lying/5, Fast-Talk/3, Detect Lies/5, Area Knowledge(local city)/3, Move Silently/2, Pick Locks/2 Songs: Ethereal Form/3, Celestial Motion/3, Celestial Shields/3 Attunements: Impudite of the Game Appearance: She appears on Earth as a tall and lean Caucasian woman, with black hair and brown eyes. She dresses casually but in expensive designer labels, tending towards solids and dark colors. Image: Evi is hard-boiled -- tough, cynical and worldly to the Nth degree. She is keenly aware of the seamy reality hiding behind every ideal and sees hidden meanings and subtle implications in even the most apparently innocuous phrases. Her own words seem blunt and careless, but that's intentional; she wants to put her opponents off-balance and trick them into unguarded speech. Quote: "Forget justice, forget mercy, forget fairness. It's about revenge. People want it, and I buy it for them." History: Evi is a fallen angel. She fell, of course, with the best of intentions and the most noble of motives. She was a Mercurian of Novalis who began to use her political talents to work the levers of power and bring succor to the weak and powerless. And that's what she did, at first. Then she began to think that if she was successful at this, she could use the same means to bring justice to the powerful. Again, it was successful, but in her haste to strike back at those who tormented her charges she lost sight of Novalis's command to be first of all kind and Fell. She sees this as proof that Heaven has ossified to the point that it can no longer take action against tyranny and evil, and she was drawn into the service of Asmodeus. He allows her to do as she likes; and what she likes is to see that those who are powerful and arrogant stay that way until they die, so that they will suffer the horrors of the Pit for their crimes against the weak. She doesn't pretend that what she does is anything other than simple vengeance, and is now remarkably indifferent to the fallout from what she does. Though she won't deliberately ruin anyone who is weak or helpless, she won't care what effect the side effects her plans will have on them. For example, Evi would help a sweatshop owner find blackmail material on a labor organizer in his shop. Even though this would harm the workers, she would do it to make sure that the sweatshop owner's sins are bad enough to totally damn him. She is not entirely averse to working with angels. She finds it wrenching to deal with those who still are what she once was, but she hides it under a layer of ice-cold cool. Any redemption story involving her is likely to involve a Servitor of one of the more martial angels; Michael or David would likely be willing to take her in, and possibly Gabriel as well. She will respond very poorly to gentle persuasion, seeing it as coddling an evil -- her own self! Notes: The idea behind Evi is loss of faith. She lost faith in her work, and Fell. Now she is pulled in two directions. Her desire for clarity and simplicity of purpose could not be reconciled with the messy complexity of Earthly existence, and she was drawn down to the Pit. Now she plays the Game to strike back at those who merely have the power of the world. But the Game lowers all who play it to its own level; how long before her own beliefs are empty phrases used to rationalize self-aggrandizement? - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:51:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: Jasper Reijer Floor Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Governments On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Yossi Gurvitz wrote: > Quibble: Gabriel is, among other things, in charge of Vengeance. Dominic > is in charge of Justice - those two words are very close to each other, > but, alas, the two archangels don't get along all that well. How would > that reflect on their servitors? Will they cooperate - they have very > similar goals - or will they hinder each other, or at least regard one > another with hostility? However complimentary their words may be (and I am not arguing that point for against, but taking it as an assumption for this argument), the angels of Fire are devoted to Gabriel. If they weren't, then they are serving the wrong word, and should find another superior. The angels of Judgement are at the very least loyal. If they aren't... well that's why Dominic (don't call him Dommie, he might be listening) keeps such a close watch on them. Because of this, I believe that Judgement angels would work with Fire angels, but Fire angels won't work with Judgement. Judgement will suspect Fire though, even when working with them. Back to the subject, while I believe that there is a good argument to be made for why fascism could be approved by David, I don't believe there could be a word-bound angel. There just hasn't been a fascist state that has done more to advance the cause of heaven rather that hell (and I don't accept that the holocaust could just have been a plot to bring people together... that would be going to far and taking to big a risk). I still don't believ fascism to be on heaven's side of the fence, but I will agree to disagree on this point. But any angel with that word would be a pathetic creature indeed. As would the angel of Marxism(or Communism). Communism, as Marx saw, has never existed on this planet. Russia is not an example of a communist state. It is only called communist because they used those ideals for their own purpose (it may have started with people who believed, but in the end it was perverted, if not in the begining). China is doubtfull as well, and Cuba isn't a good example. The ideal of communism has only be achieved on a small scale in self sufficient communities, like kibutzes in Israel. Furthermore, I don't believe that heaven has to support every form of government. Why should they. I think that totalitarianist governments (like fascism) are counter-productive to their needs and wants. Remember that the whole problem started when Lucifer couldn't leave humans alone. (thought I won't say if this is a cause or a symptom). Yes individual arch angels can be totalitarian to their followers, but it is not essential. If the followers don't like it, they can go somewhere else. Also, angel's aint humans. Angels are more basic, as the3y resonate more strongly with one part of the symphony. Thus what would be cool for angels, would be bad for humans. They just weren't made that way. mvg, Jasper Floor Stone walls do not a prison make,| Nor iron bars a cage; Minds innocent and quiet take | That for an hermitage; If I have freedom in my love, | And in my soul am free, Angels alone that soar above | Enjoy such liberty. Richard Lovelace - To Althea from Prison iv ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:26:10 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> A little Knowledge... Is a dangerous Thing. Drink deep, or taste not... I have a difficulty that I'd like some help with. I have a player who has recently become a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS or Mormons). Now he wants to play a servitor of Moroni. So here's the question: What would Moroni's Choir and Superior be? Obviously, his word is LDS (full form above...), but I need some help on this one. I've currently got as Choir options: Mercurian Elohite Cherub Ofanite in that order of *current* preference. As for Superiors: Destiny Stone Protection Dreams Revelation What does anyone else think, and why? Thanks for listening Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:29:44 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> The Pleasure Principle (NB. This is intended to turn into quite a political scenario, with angels and agents of vying superiors trying to influence the seraphim council) Summary: Laurence is deeply upset at finding out the incursions that lust is making after several incidents (highly publicised) of priests being involved in sex scandals. His mercurians report that it seems to be an image problem. Celibacy and chastity simply aren't 'sexy'. He decides this must be changed and gives Elaine (Angel of Chastity) carte blanche to do whatever needs to be done as a high priority. The two main movers and shakers are Elaine and Ochas (who is a friend of hers), Elohite of Judgement. Ochas has a role in TV and has undertaken to encourage some of his acquaintances to help out. Elaine's goal is to promote chastity and celibacy as being trendy to young people, and Ochas wants to find ways to prevent angels from making themselves vulnerable to the temptations of lust. He has spent a lot of time compiling evidence for his superior on how dangerous lust is to angels. When he gives this to Dominic, the reaction is immediate -- the archangel of judgement decides that the misdemeanor of corporeal sex for angels must get bumped right up the severity list! Suddenly it becomes an actual punishable offence for angels of creation to perform their rite... Their main opponent on the demonic side (after Andre has stopped laughing and decided that this needs to be nipped in the bud) is Zinnia, Demon of Sex on Film. Avenues which Elaine and Ochas will explore: 1. The celibacy crusade. Celibacy must be seen as a valid lifestyle choice, and to appeal to the young she needs to make it seem the trendy thing to do. Angels must rustle up some media celebrities who can 'come out' about being celibate. Famous models must give huge exclusives about how they have never cheated on their husbands/ wives, or never had sex before marriage. People must write catchy songs about the joys of abstinance and platonic friendships. Ochas knows a few angels of creation (although 'friends' might be the wrong word), and is not above engaging in a little subtle blackmail to persuade them that judgement might be prepared to turn a blind eye if they were to show willing with this. He also will contact local angels of trade to help out with financing some of these plans. 2. Another spearhead for the campaign is to create a really popular TV show which stars some characters who are celibate, either through being in the priesthood or just deciding that they hadn't met the right person yet. They scored a great success with 'Father Ted' but are considering trying to follow up with a 'Friends' style show based around some young, trendy priests. This was actually the idea of one of the mercurians of creation (in service to flowers) who had been thinking about it anyway but is using the chastity crusade as an excuse to try to get some funding and support from 'heavenly sources.' He isn't totally averse to the idea of the casting couch, but will get into trouble if Ochas & Elaine find that part out. 3. Family Planning. What Elaine would really like to do is make it more difficult to obtain contraceptives or abortions if you are not already married. (this is the part which Novalis and Janus will object to (Eli probably should but since he can't be bothered to show up it is difficult to say)). She is considering trying to push this on political fronts and has some support from angels of Stone who are willing to work with high profile pressure groups. They like pressure groups anyway, and it doesn't matter to them if the proposed legislation is successful as long as people stand up for what they believe in and join forces with other like-minded mortals. So of course, there may be other Stone angels supporting opposite-minded groups. They'll get together in private and agree that the result is almost entirely unimportant. 4. Slay lust demons. The malakim of the sword are especially keen on this part. (This is where Andre begins to take things personally -- up to this point he doesn't care. He is confident that lust is so much a part of human nature that no silly publicity campaign can have much of an impact). Malakim of fire may be drafted in to 'help.' The angels will also be attacking lust tethers by trying to push a morality campaign through local politics (and hopefully get brothels raided, or even closed down) 5. Disease. Elaine has considered the possibility of inducing some outbreaks of STDs to generate more publicity for the notion that celibacy is good for you but has rejected the idea as: a) Its not very honorable b) It gives too many openings for demons of nightmares to play on the fears of the population c) It doesn't seem a very effective way of encouraging people in the right direction, compared to the amount of misery it causes. However, Ochas feels that there is a sense in which the 'punishment' fits the 'crime' as long as the diseases are not terminal. He does not (quite) feel that the punishment for lust should be death, and agrees that _for mortals_ sex isn't so much a crime as a necessary part of human reproduction and a physical manifestation of the first commandment in the bible. (Be fruitful & multiply). He has been doing some investigations into how difficult this might be, and other angels may spot this, but not realise that he decided against it. (Especially if there actually is an outbreak of herpes or some demons of technology decide this would be a great time to try out their new virus). 6. Following Ochas' report on the corruption of the corporeal world by lust and the necessity for action, corporeal sex for angels gets regraded by Dominic to be a more serious offence under the heresies 'Opening oneself to the temptations of Lust' and 'setting a poor example to the sons of man.' This is widely regarded to be another dig at Eli, who still doesn't show up to argue the point. Punishments which used to be limited to the equivalent of a warning now become public indictments; lists of offenders are circulated to heaven (especially to Laurence) and those found guilty are required to attend confession and remedial seminars on resisting demonic wiles and the joys of an 'angelic' lifestyle. In the worst cases, (or in the cases of the most hardline inquisitors) angels are recalled to heaven and have their vessels taken away to remove them from temptation. (Once Andre really begins to find this an irritant he will make some efforts, with Nybbas' help, to sabotage the crusade. A personal success for them would be if one of his demons seduces Elaine herself and is caught on camera doing so.) Opinions of other superiors: Blandine takes no part in the whole affair. She is concerned that Eli is being persecuted and instructs her angels to support angels of creation by allowing them to carry out their rites in the Marches. Eli is unavailable for comment. If anyone locates him or summons him, he tells his angels to chill because it'll all blow over -- 'You know, a period of celibacy can add variety; it'll give you a chance to polish up your needlework, and I thought that TV show was pretty cool.' A victory for him would be if one of his angels could seduce Zinnia and persuade her that sex doesn't have to be cold and loveless, or persuade Ochas that it needn't be a highway to hell (for angels of creation, at least). David doesn't like it when demons corrupt priests. He doesn't really care what the form of revenge is, and doesn't trust Laurence to get things right. He would rather see mortals doing something about it themselves and sends his angels to sit on the sidelines, watch carefully, and drum up support for censorship groups and the moral majority. He also fails to understand why angels would sleep with each other anyway unless they served creation, it is a weakness for them to become addicted to any mortal habit. Gabriel proves incapable of understanding why anyone would want to curtail human passions. She ignores Laurence's schemes but instructs her angels to burn the servants of lust from the face of the earth. Saner angels of fire instruct their underlings to try to avoid being picked up by the inquisition whilst they are doing this. Janus is all for it. The more extreme the better. At least it will make people think. Maybe it'll make some angels think too. 'And had you considered spreading some diseases?' Jean agrees that really there is no overwhelmingly objective reason for angels to be sleeping with each other but supports his own angels if they seem to be taking a responsible attitude about it and are aware of possible dangers from lust. He supports Laurence on the grounds that it may not have a great effect, but is also unlikely to be detrimental to society. Jordi doesn't care. Animals are not subject to lust, but only to instinct. He does flex some political muscle in support of Eli, but doesn't seem to be in much of a hurry about it. Marc agrees in principle with Laurence and hopes that it will all pass over quickly. He is trying to encourage the more warlike superiors to seek to influence the mortal world through more subtle ways than fighting so supports that side of things as a kind of positive reinforcement. Michael resists this, not because he really cares about the issue, but because Dominic seems to be keen on it and he suspects that if he carries on this way, there won't be that many angels _left_ on earth. On the other hand, he is quite into the idea of attacking Andrealphas' minions and offers backup to Elaine to help with the fun demon-bashing bits. Novalis thinks that people should be free to choose a sex-free lifestyle without pressure from society if that's what they want, and that this is a nice opportunity to show humanity that love can take many forms. However, she is becoming concerned that what began as a pro-celibacy movement might turn into an anti-sex drive. Yves doesn't get involved, and says simply that both sides of the argument have merit and that he supports repression of demonic activity. Everyone thinks this means he agrees with them. After the celibacy crusade has scored a few triumphs, it is inevitable that the seraphim council will vote that Dominic should return to judging the sex issue less harshly. Witnesses will be found who can testify that there are instances in which it has been necessary to keep up a role, been good for angelic morale, or has helped to get close enough to a demon to convince it to redeem or give up useful information. (there are undoubtedly other arguments as well, but these are the ones which will convince the hardliners). If the angels have done a good spin-doctoring job on celibacy then applications to the priesthood will also rise over the next few years. NPCs Elaine, Elohite of the Sword, Angel of Chastity (11 force friend of the sword) Str: 4 Int: 6 Per: 11 Agil: 8 Prec: 6 WP: 9 Vessel/2 (Human female) Role 3, Status 3 -- Dr. Elaine Dennings, marriage councillor Songs: Charm (Cor/3, Cel/2) Shields (Eth/3, Cel/2) Healing (Eth/3) Skills: Detect Lie/2 Large Weapon (Sword)/4 Dodge/2 Fast Talk/2 Emote/3 Drive/1 Seduction/2 Tactics/3 Fighting/1 Attunements: Elohite of the Sword, Mercurian of the Sword, Friend of the Sword, Hunt, Angel of Chastity Rite: Persuade a mortal who is considering having an extra-marital affair not to do so, or persuade one who is having an affair to stop (1 essence) Attunement: Freedom from Fleshly Desire For the cost of 2 essence, the user may grant a recipient a protection from the base urges of lust for 24 hours. It's like a strong dose of bromides and additionally gives the recipient protection from Andre's Dark Desire attunement equivalent to that of an ethereal song of shields. Background: Elaine is a very quiet angel, even for an elohite, which disguises a personality that tends to extremes. Once dedicated to an ideal, she devotes herself to it unconditionally and unquestioningly and finds it difficult to do anything by half measures. She was once a Habbalite of Lust but lost her dark faith after being routed and slain by some malakim of the sword during the middle ages, who impressed her by the purity of their conviction. After some period of intensive internal questioning she decided abruptly to seek the angels out and challenge them to a test of wills. She should have won, would have won, except that at the last moment she faltered, unwilling to break them utterly, and fled. Laurence extended an invitation to her to try her might again (through emissaries) and set her 7 quests. At the end of this period, she begged for redemption and was not refused. She now pursues her fight against her old master with the intense zeal of the converted, and promotes chastity (celibacy outside marriage, and fidelity within it) as part of church teachings and as a means to curb mankind's wilder excesses, and to promote an honorable attitude towards sex. She has up until now preferred quiet, subtle ways to promote her word, but realises that she hasn't the skills to organise a large media-based campaign, so has recruited allies to help out on several fronts. She dresses soberly and emotes an air of calm and reason, even in combat. She is very adept at guilt-tripping people, and using her natural talent at fast talking to convince them that sometimes things that they want aren't good for them. She also has a fearful temper which sometimes forces her to call off a conversation and go for a walk to calm down again. Other elohim respect her ability to ignore her own intense feelings, but also find the fact that she is so intense to be oddly disturbing. Ochas, Elohite of Judgement Str: 4 Int: 8 Per: 7 Agil: 4 Pre: 8 WP: 5 Vessel/3 Role: Level/2 Status/2 (Charles McKay, TV researcher (junior legal correspondant)) Charisma: +1 Songs: Harmony (Cel/4) Projection/4 Skills: Area Knowledge(local)/2 Computer/1 Detect Lie/1 Small Weapon(knife)/2 Dodge/2 Move Silently/2 Savoir Faire/1 Law/2 Attunements: Elohite of Judgement Background: Ochas' main job on earth has been to use his journalist contacts to gather information on mortals and celestials about whom judgement has an interest, and also to compile news clippings about particularly interesting cases. He has been unlucky enough to have seen a few cases in which angels fell or came perilously close to falling through either the wiles of lust demons or having acquired the lust discord, and has since started a private collection of clippings about sex scandals to present to Dominic as a proof that lust's work on earth is getting out of hand. As long as this didn't interfere with his other work, it was acceptable, but finally he has found a word-bound ally in Elaine who has a mission that made it reasonable for him to present his evidence! When he was doing triad work, any subject who had been engaging in sex had a very difficult time of it as he still finds this faintly heretical in most cases. He strives very hard to be the very model of an elohite of judgement but this is his pet crusade and he finds it increasingly difficult to argue that any other business might be more important. In his view, it is very clear that if angels simply eschewed sex then lust would never hook them. He fails to understand the attraction on a very basic level. Therefore, objectively, any measure that can encourage this is justified. He is less concerned about the mortals but feels that more chastity would not do them any harm either. Dominic is also asking him to report on Elaine regularly as she is considered to be susceptible & not yet having abandoned all of her demonic ways. (But if she falls, Ochas will probably follow her). His vessel is young, chubby and tends to be dishevelled, and his talent with Savoir Faire often surprises people. He is generally quite outspoken in mortal company unless he absolutely needs to be polite, feeling that subtle words are often wasted, and besides which TV researchers are expected to have strong opinions about things. Mortals who know him find him to be quite entertaining and surprisingly good company, although he occasionally comes out with very accurate, pointed comments. With angels he shifts back into his native 'mode,' a more distant and calculating demeanor, which is a very noticeable difference. He takes any opportunity to lecture fellow angels about the spiritual dangers of corporeal intercourse. (Sorry this got kind of long. I might try to follow up with demonic NPCs, some timescales for events, and plot seeds late this week...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:34:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Gastonguay Subject: IN> Getting there(more from the Riddler) The game's almost ready...Just a few more questions on how to do this: 1. Because Kyriotates can extend their comsciousness to a number of different dream scapes, do they need the Dream Walking attunement? 2. Blandine's Servitors Hearts are in her tower(I think). So does that mean that when any of her angels return to their Heart, the go Ethereal rather than Celestial? 3. Could the person(I forget who) who was printing up tarot Destinys and Fates continue? I was probably use it for Malakim noble/ignoble acts. 4. About combat....I have seen more than enough changes to the combat system presented in the book, and since I have yet to play, I cannot know which one will work best. Does anyone know of a system that works best for them. I'm looking for plenty of realism, speed doesn't matter as much since the whole game will be slow due to it being my first time. 5. What: Lives in winter, Dies in summer, And grows with its roots upwards? (I'm going to find a riddle none of you can answer if it kills me!) Adam _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:54:19 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re IN> A little Knowledge... I'd make it an angel of fire. Gabriel may not be doing those 'revelation' duties herself any more, but it is consistent that they'd still be covered by her word. Ofanite might fit best, for the same reasons. jo (Having said that, unless you are playing a very Christian based setting I'd discourage the player because standard IN doesn't really match the theology of his church and he might find that upsetting). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:15:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: Re IN> A little Knowledge... On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Hart, Joanna wrote: > I'd make it an angel of fire. Gabriel may not be doing those 'revelation' > duties herself any more, but it is consistent that they'd still be covered > by her word. Ofanite might fit best, for the same reasons. Fire is good, though Khalid might also be an option once the ferschlugginer writeup is out. > (Having said that, unless you are playing a very Christian based setting I'd > discourage the player because standard IN doesn't really match the theology > of his church and he might find that upsetting). Since this is a player that has recently converted, and yet not denounced RPGs as tools of the Devil, I think it safe to say that this person is capable of realizing the difference between RL beliefs and game belef, and not being too upset (or surprised) when one doesn't mesh with the other. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:12:48 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Re IN> A little Knowledge... Hart, Joanna wrote: > (Having said that, unless you are playing a very Christian based > setting I'd discourage the player because standard IN doesn't really > match the theology of his church and he might find that upsetting). Mormon theology is so variant from mainstream Christian, a "very Christian" game might not mesh very well, either. For one thing, it is a feature of Mormonism that humans CAN become celestials. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:08:39 +0300 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: IN> Cherubs and their vessels. Hello. At 02:17 PM 7/13/98 , you wrote: >Does a cherub automatically deattune when its vessel is killed, or is it >possible for an angel to continue to get dissonant (and possibly even fall) >whilst in trauma, if something happens to its attunement when it isn't there >to protect them? I think they stay attuned. Hey, it's their fault they lost the bessel. Nobody told them to get into any fights while guarding their charges. And if the battle in which the vessel was lost was fought on behalf of the charge, I think we can safely say the Cherub has failed, and deserves the punishment. But what happens if the charge died of natural causes? You can expect a Cherub to fight Lucifer himself on behalf of his charge, but what can he do against a heart attack? Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:44:59 +0300 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Governments Hello, Armand. I wish to apologize for the fact my earlier message was sent several times. I had a problem with my server, who refused to accept it (that's why I re-wrote it), but it appears it did. >This assumes that there is not an ineffible plan. In the presence of an >ineffible plan, where is there free will? I take this into considerations >whe I think that this is a game where they recommend that you read "Good >Omens" (a book that hinges highly on the ineffible plan tangent.) Oh, I quote it often. But, still, can we actually speak of an "ineffible plan" in In Nomine? That takes all the punch out of the war. And who, exactly, knows the details of this plan? Plus, gamewise, accepting the idea of the One and Only Plan will take all the fun out of playing demons; after all, they're going to lose and spend all the rest of their existance in Hell. >Unless you want to go to Heaven when you die. Sort of like you get >rewarded by following the mandates of the state. Of course, this assumes >that they have a seat on the board. Well, since there *are* soldiers of hell, I guess some people don't want to go to heaven when they die. Or, at least, believe in their ability to convince their masters to make the afterlife less horrible. >I think that there is a difference between a military police force and a >secret police organization. I think Dommie keeps a tighter leash than just >stopping by once in a while. "It is also dissonant for them to overlook >what _they_ feel to be heresy in an angel." Ack! Major point, that. There's also the trial of Michael and the persecution of Gabriel and Eli. I just hope he uses a better judicial system than the historical inquisition (the accused cannot, for all practical reasons, lie). >My thoughts on this are that Vengeance can get out of hand. Dommie's boys >tend to mete out the exact value of punishment for the crime. Also, and I >think that people forget this side of Dommie, his Servitors defend the >innocent. Gabriel avenges the wrong doing. Again, she might get going >after the wrong person. Just my thoughts, I don't know. In tho short campaign I GMed, hurting an innocent was dissonant for angels, even angels of Gabriel. Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:29:42 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Pleasure Principle A cute campaign idea. Certainly a difficult assignment to hand some angels. Allow me to suggest some additions: While people can certainly be led by pure fashion-mongering, it will lend spine to the chastity campaign if REASONS are given for chastity. And of course "God commands it" is not going to work as a reason for large segments of the population For the media campaign, these reasons would take the form of plot situation in the TV show, pop tune, or whathaveyou. Examples: "My lover and I don't need a marriage ceremony. We've promised each other to stay together." Celibate smiles & says, "You promised? That IS a marriage ceremony, by me. You just didn't invite any guests." Any number of sad tales of lovers splitting up. It doesn't matter if they were unmarried or married; someone was false to the other. "My lover and I don't need a marriage ceremony. We've promised each other to stay together." The other lover casts a doubtful look at the first and says, "Then why not put it in writing?" Complex tales in which lovers have temporary or permanent fallings-out because the terms of the informal relationship were never spelled out. Tales of brave struggle on the part of abandonned spouses. Tales of spouses or fiances remaining true despite the temptations of (usually villainous) third parties. Tales of moral courage in which a relationship is saved because of a determination to honor promises made. Stuff like that. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:46:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Getting there(more from the Riddler) On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Adam Gastonguay wrote: > works best for them. I'm looking for plenty of realism, speed doesn't > matter as much since the whole game will be slow due to it being my > first time. In that case, save yourself a whole lot of trouble and use the GURPS conversion. IN combat rules are broken as all Hell. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:50:55 -0400 From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> The Pleasure Principle Hart, Joanna wrote: > > (NB. This is intended to turn into quite a political scenario, with angels > and agents of vying superiors trying to influence the seraphim council) >[sniperoni, the San Francisco Treat!] > > (Sorry this got kind of long. I might try to follow up with demonic NPCs, > some timescales for events, and plot seeds late this week...) That's all right. I loved it! Cool idea! Finally, somebody who used Andrealphus! Hooray! :-) (Don't worry -- I scared *myself* there.) - -- Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7789233/ UIN: 7789233 http://www.accessdenied.net/cgi-bin/main.cgi?userid=326&newuser=profile MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:57:44 -0400 From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> The Pleasure Principle Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > A cute campaign idea. Certainly a difficult assignment to > hand some angels. >[sniperoni] > Stuff like that. > Actually, your ideas sound like a show like "Melrose Place"! > Earl - -- Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7789233/ UIN: 7789233 http://www.accessdenied.net/cgi-bin/main.cgi?userid=326&newuser=profile MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:45:51 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Governments ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:03:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Princes and Renegades At 11:18 AM -0700 7/11/98, Daniel Maberry wrote: >>Asmodeus, another Djinn, is more likely to have ways of attuning to you >>no matter how you try to cover your tracks... > >Oh yeah, he's good at that Sneaky Bastard (tm) schtick. Still... Just >imagine the consequences if he finally catches up to you, tries to cut >the attumenent so he can smite you-- and blows it. > >You'll probably wish he'd succeeded. *Teeeeechnically*, a Prince would never muff breaking an attunement in this fashion. However, there's always Maya's/GR Cogman's "Play Misty For Me" adventure. Where the premise *is* that Asmodeus has gone obsessive... (And then there's just him attuned. Standing behind you, lightly stroking your hair. Purring, deep, just below the threshold of actually hearing. The soft whisper, warm breath against the back of your neck. "Mine.") - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:53:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Riddler question At 10:00 AM -0700 7/11/98, Adam Gastonguay wrote: >"pg 110: An angel of Blandine may not take his celestial form in the >mundane world, nor use Celestial Songs on Earth. To do so generates >dissonance." > >But what about Kyriotates? In order for them to get a host...don't >they go celestial down to Earth to find a host... Normally. Obviously Kyriotates of Blandine go to the Marches and slip into someone via a dreamscape? [As a kindness, I've always figured that angelic Tethers, especially Blandine ones, would be exempt from this -- they can go celestial to ascend via a Tether.) >does that mean they >get dissonant between each host? If they go celestial between hosts, yes. However, Kyriotates (unlike Shedim) can have multiple hosts and even if they don't, they don't *have* to go celestial to jump from one host to another. (Shedim usually *do* have to do this, if they don't take the slower 'oozing' option.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #853 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.