From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jul 26 12:12:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16409 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:12:20 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA27112 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:17:22 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:17:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199807261717.MAA27112@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #875 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, July 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number 875 In this digest: Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim intro, and a problem? IN> IN Soundtrack Re: IN> Kyrios in Celestial combat, remnants etc.->Golems Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Re: IN> Books and Movies Re: IN> Books and Movies IN> Books and Movies Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Re: IN> Kyrios in Celestial combat, remnants etc.->Golems Re: IN> Books and Movies IN> the best way to search the archive Re: IN> Kyrios in Celestial combat, remnants etc.->Golems Re: IN> Books and Movies Re: IN> IN Soundtrack IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting IN> Next Re: IN> Next Re: IN> the best way to search the archive IN> Valefor and Yves Re: IN> Valefor and Yves IN> IN:london (3) Re: IN> Valefor and Yves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 09:11:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim intro, and a problem? > > Screw dissonance, it'll ANNOY him to hell (almost literally). > Of course, no wonder the guy Falls, if his Superior revokes the one > thing that the Malakite exists to do, little wonder he'd go rogue, > eesh. :) Thank you for taking MY side of the arguement...That's almost what I said to my friend, who had the problem with the mechanics. I repeat: I will have Faith in my In Nominees! :) (now if only the durn thing'll come out! :P) Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:53:29 -0700 From: alloni@ibsystems.com (Alloni Kramer) Subject: IN> IN Soundtrack Okay, I'm a great believer in background music for games. As such, and since my IN game is FINALLY ABOUT TO GET MOVING ahem after multiple starts at character creation, movings, permutations, and a complete change of gaming group entirely, I am trying to assemble a selection of CDs to play in the background. I know, I know, this has all been covered in the archives. But the archives spans 800+ different digests. Any idea WHERE in the archives? (Someone mentioned a URL a while ago, http://www.cas.nwu.edu/people/chandley/, but now when I try to access it, I get a Forbidden error.) Thanks for your patience! Alloni ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:24:49 -0700 (PDT) From: daiv@cruzio.com (David M. Barr) Subject: Re: IN> Kyrios in Celestial combat, remnants etc.->Golems > Vessels that are part of >attunements should still work, though -- if I recall right, Remnants >retain access to attunements. >---Walter This leads into something I was thinking about; Kyros of David are given a stone statue as a vessel. If a K of D turned remnant, it would (maybe) still have access to the vessel. Heck, it would be stuck in the vessel. Can you say, Golem? I know nothing about golems other than a vary little bit that I have picked up from non reliaible sources, that were only consistent with each other (something about a "Chem" which is a peice of paper with holy writings on it that makes the golem able to work/function. Any one who knows more about this tha I do(that is, anything at all that does not come from disney or terry pratchett) who wants to enlighten me is welcome to do so. Personally, i am trying to figure out how to work sorcerors into the mix (maybe the chem is an artifact....maybe, unlike angles. remnants _are_ summonable by sorcereors...even bindable...) read "Feet Of Clay" By Terry Pratchett for an interesting perspective on Golems and their relationship to things celestial. It is not writtjn to be IN cannon, it is not written to be any cannon (game or oherwise). But It is FUN, and I found it deeply thought provoking. then again, I think Terry Pratchett books are one of the best things to happen since bread [sic]. - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:54:03 -0700 From: Gryph Clarke Subject: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Being pagan myself, I admit to wishing that the other pantheons had more of a role. However, what should I expect from a game based on the Christian and other similar religions? ;) My theory is, if you want a game based on pagans, don't play one that tells you it's about angels and demons, and if you want to play that one, write your own rules for how your religion works. Heck, the Marches are a big and weird place...you can do anything with them. So, personally, I just enjoy the study in religious philosophy and chuck the pagan gods in the Marches, too. :::chuckle::: Maybe someday I'll write my own way to deal with them (just like writing up the rules for crossing In Nomine and Kult and In Nomine and the White Wolf games). - - Gryph Habbalite of Rampaging Pregnancy Hormones in service to Weird Food Cravings. Doug Muir wrote: > >I'm not entire sure what to _do_ about some of the gods of Hinduism or > the > >spirits of Ancestors or the religions of Micronesia in an In Nomine > sense > >and still make them fair to those who follow them. > > The religions of Micronesia? > > I used to live there. > > The native religions, as such, are pretty much gone, although > superstitions and certain spiritual concepts still survive. Micronesia > is mostly Christian now, though the exact sect varies with each island > group -- Catholicism in the Marianas, SDA in Palau, Congregationalism in > Kosrae. > > Were you thinking of some other "nesia" (Poly-, Mela-), or do you know > something I don't? > > >I'm twitchy about > >tossing everything in the Marches for Politicall Correct reasons, and > >occasionally wonder if what is done to the Ethereals in canon is > entirely > >fair to them or to their followerers. > > Mm. Good question. Virtuous Pagans, anyone? > > Doug Muir > dougmuir@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 14:00:47 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: Re: IN> Books and Movies Doug Muir wrote: > So I'm just wondering, has anyone else seen a movie or read a book and > then thought something like, oh yeah, this character was *obviously* a > Cherub of Eli trying to guard this other character from that > Balseraph... Casablanca, of course, is loaded with them. Humphrey Bogart plays an Outcast Cherub of Michael (he almost always plays an Outcast; in The Maltese Falcon, he's an Outcast Elohite of Gabriel), Paul Henreid is a Seraph of Laurence, and Claude Rains is an Impudite of Haagenti. It is a nice touch that the movie ends with Bogart Redeeming Rains. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:07:30 -0700 From: Gryph Clarke Subject: Re: IN> Books and Movies My list of viewables: The Prophecy The Prophecy II Fallen Liar Liar (imagine a Seraph brand-new to Earth while watching it) Devil's Advocate Spawn (watch the HBO animated series) - - Gryph Doug Muir wrote: > I was just thinking... > > What books and movies, not obviously connected to Canon, nevertheless > make an interesting sort of sense when you look at them in the light of > the IN world and system? > > I'm not talking about obvious stuff like _Good Omens_ or _The Screwtape > Letters_. No, more like... mmm... well, I just saw the movie _The > Opposite of Sex_ recently. -- If you haven't seen this, let me > recommend it; it's a remarkably nasty little movie with some great > performances by Christina Ricci (as the *almost* completely evil > narrator) and Lisa Kudrow (as the bitter and uptight Cassandra-figure), > andeven a nice bit part for Lyle Lovett. -- But anyhow, it occurred to > me that the film would make almost uncannily perfect sense if you > assumed that DeDee (Ricci's character, the teenage slut who narrates it > all) was an Impudite servitor of Andrealphus who picks up some Discord > by the end of the movie (probably from shooting her boyfriend halfway > through it). > > So I'm just wondering, has anyone else seen a movie or read a book and > then thought something like, oh yeah, this character was *obviously* a > Cherub of Eli trying to guard this other character from that > Balseraph... > > Anyone? > > Doug M. > dougmuir@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:52:20 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> Books and Movies >Casablanca, of course, is loaded with them. Humphrey Bogart plays an >Outcast Cherub of Michael (he almost always plays an Outcast; in The Maltese >Falcon, he's an Outcast Elohite of Gabriel), Paul Henreid is a Seraph of >Laurence, and Claude Rains is an Impudite of Haagenti. It is a nice touch >that the movie ends with Bogart Redeeming Rains. Ohh kay. Yeah. I like it. -- And Sidney Greenstreet might be a servitor of Mammon or some such. And Bogey gets redeemed, too, at the end... obviously he became Outcast (and was in danger of falling into sullen djinn-hood) because he got too wrapped up in his attunement to whatsername, and so developed Discord, something like "Cynicism" or "Apathy". Then letting her go is the action he takes to "fix" his dissonance-inducing overattunement... right. Okay, that's one. More? Doug M. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:32:30 +0300 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting At 02:03 AM 7/25/98 , you wrote: Hello. >Three angels by name, actually. Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer. Err. not really. Isiah 14.12, which is often translated as "Lucifer", is actually (in the Hebrew version), is an obscure reference to someone called Hillel Ben Shacar (literally, "Praiser born of the Dawn"). From the text itself, one assumes the prophet is speaking of a man, not of an archangel. The Latin translation put "Lucifer" (Lightbearer) in stead of "Hillel Ben Shachar", and the English translation followed suit. The rebellion of Lucifer isn't mentioned in the Old Testament, but (AFAIK) only in the Apocalypse. Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:21:47 +0300 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? At 10:26 PM 7/24/98 , you wrote: >Sorry if this has been asked before but I've just recently got online. >A celestial without a role who gets investigated is A: In really big >trouble because they don't exist or B: just slides through the system? Two words: celestial form :-) Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:54:29 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Kyrios in Celestial combat, remnants etc.->Golems At 11:24 25/07/98 -0700, you wrote: > >I know nothing about golems other than a vary little bit that I have picked >up from non reliaible sources, that were only consistent with each other >(something about a "Chem" which is a peice of paper with holy writings on >it that makes the golem able to work/function. Weeell.... (actually the next scenario idea I have in my head is based around a murder in an orthodox Jewish community which does turn out involve both a Dybbuk & a golem, and some historical research to pinpoint a similar incident in Napoleonic Poland, but I digress...). Basically the golem itself was made out of clay, or whatever the Kabbalist had handy (but clay is malleable and doesn't require one to be an expert smith). There are different stories and traditions about the specifics, but from the ones I have heard, the Shem (or name) was written on the golem's forehead as the last part of the activating ritual. It consisted of 3 Hebrew letters, spelling the word 'Emet' which means 'truth'. I seem to remember that different stories do say it could be written on a piece of paper instead. Although the golem could obey orders from its creator (which usually involved protecting people), it couldn't speak. Speech was supposedly a gift from God to man. One way to de-activate the golem was to rub out the first letter (ie. the aleph) which would leave the word 'Mat,' meaning 'dead.' As soon as anyone did this, the golem would fall lifeless to the floor. jo jo http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:17:17 -0500 (CDT) From: SaturdayBoy Subject: Re: IN> Books and Movies okay, this is a *bit* obvious, but... A LIFE LESS ORDINARY (obvious because Holly Hunter and Delroy Lindo actually *are* angels in the film). The angels operate almost exactly as PCs in an IN game would work. They gain dissonance and kind of flip out a bit, but it all seems to be a part of some MASTER PLAN(tm), which is a weird commentary on fate vs. destiny. Anyway, check it out, its a good flick. - ---That is all... - ---Commander Eric out. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:31:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: IN> the best way to search the archive > But the archives spans 800+ different digests. Any idea WHERE in the archives? This does raise a vaid issue -- it'd be nice if there were some way to catalog/index the archives of the mailing list. (I would say the same thing about the GURPS mailing list, for instance.) However, I can't think of a way for it to be done with either requiring a lot of CPU time for word searches (which would then return as much unrelated stuff as your typical web engine search), or requiring a _whole_ lot of human time adding keywords and index words to messages that come in. Are there any ideas on this, or should the archives just remain the huge monolith that they are now? Are there any good ways to search the archive now? - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 01:22:55 +0300 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> Kyrios in Celestial combat, remnants etc.->Golems At 09:24 PM 7/25/98 , you wrote: >I know nothing about golems other than a vary little bit that I have picked >up from non reliaible sources, that were only consistent with each other >(something about a "Chem" which is a peice of paper with holy writings on >it that makes the golem able to work/function. Any one who knows more about >this tha I do(that is, anything at all that does not come from disney or >terry pratchett) who wants to enlighten me is welcome to do so. Personally, >i am trying to figure out how to work sorcerors into the mix (maybe the >chem is an artifact....maybe, unlike angles. remnants _are_ summonable by >sorcereors...even bindable...) Look up "Kabbala" for Ars Magica. It deals with Mythic Judaism and has a chapter on golems. It's an excellent accessory, one of the best I've seen. Short of learning Hebrew and studying the Sefer Yetzira, it's the best you can do. Oh, and there was a very good X-Files chapter about a golem, too. > >read "Feet Of Clay" By Terry Pratchett for an interesting perspective on >Golems and their relationship to things celestial. It is not writtjn to be One of the things that set me rolling on the floor was the fact that the font he used for "golem-speech" actually uses many Heberw letters....put upside down or sideways. Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:01:10 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Books and Movies Hmmm... No, this is too easy. I think that you could take many books and movies and translate them into IN terms. So many that it becomes meaningless. Recently I posted some ideas inspired by Arturo Perez-Reverte's "The Dumas Club", thinking in IN terms. I'm looking at my shelves now, and I figure everything from Once Upon A Time In China (Wong Fei Hong a Elohim of David, Fighting/6) to Robert B. Parker's detective novels (Spenser's a Cherub of Eli, Hawk a Malakim of Michael) to JLA comics (Justice League of Angels?) is doable. It's so easy, it's almost not worth discussing. Almost. Certainly it implies that plots for IN are easy to plagarize. Sorry, easy to get inspiration for. Makes me wonder why I've only come up with two ideas... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Fuck it Fuck it Fuck it Fuck, fuck, fuck. MARILYN MANSON, "Irresponsible Hate Anthem" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:39:32 -0700 From: "E Kumar" Subject: Re: IN> IN Soundtrack Background music can totally aid in setting the tone for a game. Here's a list I like for different situations- Drama: Tear Garden " To Be An Angel Blind, The Crippled Soul Divide" Portishead " Dummy" Dead Can Dance (anything by them ) Primal Scream " Screamadelica" Action/Pumping Scenes: Korn ( anything by them ) Front Line Assembly " Hard Wired" and "Millenium" Pop Will Eat Itself "Dos Degos Mis Amigos" The "Wipe Out CD" ( Compilation Oof Crystal Meth. Prodigy etc...) Tragic: Skinny Puppy " The Process" or " Bites" Curve " Doppelganger" NIN " Further Down the Spiral " Dreamscapes: Download ( anything by them ) Most things under the "Astralwerks" label especially Space Time Continuum Ambient: The Doom Generation Soundtrack Delerium "Karma" Hopefully that helps! - ---------- > From: Alloni Kramer > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: IN> IN Soundtrack > Date: Saturday, July 25, 1998 10:53 AM > > > Okay, I'm a great believer in background music for games. As such, and > since my IN game is FINALLY ABOUT TO GET MOVING ahem after multiple starts > at character creation, movings, permutations, and a complete change of > gaming group entirely, I am trying to assemble a selection of CDs to play > in the background. > > I know, I know, this has all been covered in the archives. > > But the archives spans 800+ different digests. Any idea WHERE in the archives? > > (Someone mentioned a URL a while ago, > http://www.cas.nwu.edu/people/chandley/, but now when I try to access it, I > get a Forbidden error.) > > Thanks for your patience! > > Alloni > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:14:08 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting >>>Hey, this game was made by christians, whadya expect?<<< Actually, I think this game was mostly made by agnostics and atheists (though I don't know exactly what every writer's actual religious beliefs are) with a Judeo-Christian cultural background. ;) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:19:05 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: IN> Next All I have is the Main rule book. In Ya'lls oppion what books should I get next and why. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:34:52 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Next >All I have is the Main rule book. In Ya'lls oppion what books should I get next and >why. > In order of usefulness (and bear in mind, I don't have 'em all yet): Infernal Player's Guide Angelic Player's Guide Night Music (basically a human player's guide included) The Marches Heaven & Hell Liber Reliquarium (only really useful if you can't make up your own neato toys) That's all I can think of offhand, since Fall of the Malakim hasn't made it here yet. Redneck Will you visit one of Kris Overstreet's web sites? http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/milkmaid.html - The Magnificent Milkmaid Please make your decision quickly as I have a tendency to scream for no reason. ***KUDDU-KUDDU-PAW!!!*** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:03:06 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> the best way to search the archive On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Robert Knop wrote: > > But the archives spans 800+ different digests. Any idea WHERE in the archives? > > Are there any good ways to search the archive now? I don't know whether it's good or not, but there is a search engine connected to the archive. It's at http://www.sjgames.com/ftp/sjgames/in-nomine/digests/ It often gets a lot of hits, and you have to search the digests for the relevant parts, but it's better than trying to look through them manually. :P Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 08:22:31 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: IN> Valefor and Yves I was talking to my fiancee a few days ago, and she made an interesting observation. Valefor "first apeared on the scene several centuries back, having liberated the true prophicies of Michel de Nostradame, better known as Nostradamus, from Yves' library." (IN main book, pg 180.) The problem is, he shouldn't have been able to do it. Heaven and Hell says: "[The Library's] persona reflects every part of what it is: the sum knowledge of the Symphony. In some ways, it's as much a focused 'face' of the Symphony as Yves himself is. In some ways, it's as much 'Yves' as Yves himself." (H&H, pg 32.) Based on that information, she could only conclude that there was no way Valefor could have stole anything from Yves' Library (well, that plus the statements on pg. 69 about how it is essentially impossible to steal from the Library). At least, not without Yves *knowing* about it. And if Yves knew, why did he allow the book to be stolen? Her theory is that Yves allowed the book to be stolen, as part of Valefor's Destiny. Perhaps he was a dissatified and discordant Word-bound Servitor of Change, who *thought* he was being slick when he stole the book preparatory to Falling. Perhaps he was part of an elaborate plan by Janus and Yves to plant a double agent in Hell. But somehow, in some way, stealing that book must have been allowed by Yves in order to allow Valefor to pursue his Destiny. Or are we insane? Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to capture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture a regiment, a detachment, or a company entire than to destroy them. -Sun Tzu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:33:00 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Valefor and Yves Well, I'm quite firmly in the "Janus=Valefor"-camp, and I think Yves and Janus set the whole thing up to allow Janus to become an agent in Hell, or something similar. How he hides his angelic nature? No idea. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:14:46 PDT From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> IN:london (3) London continues... The British Library: (A Tether to Destiny) "It's a Wordy Rappinghood" (Tom Tom Club) In 1753 an Act of Parliament founded the British Museum in Bloomsbury to house three historic collections of books and curiosities (the Cotton, Harley and Sloane Collections). The British Museum Library became one of the world's finest collections of books and manuscripts. In 1857 a new reading room was opened to the public. It was a massive and handsome domed building, surrounded by new cast-iron bookstacks in the quadrants linking it to the quadrangle which housed the rest of the Museum. From its foundation to the present day, the Round Reading Room has been much loved by those who use it (including Karl Marx, who wrote Das Kapital there). Successive copyright acts grant the British Museum Library a free copy of every UK printed publication. The collection has grown phenomenally. All nineteenth and twentieth century newspapers were stored at Colindale from 1932 when the Newspaper Library was opened on the site of the 1905 newspaper repository. In 1966, following the transfer of the Patent Office Library to the British Museum and the establishment within the Department of Printed Books of the National Reference Library for Science and Invention, large numbers of scientific books were temporarily moved to Bayswater. Even so by the 1960s space was running out in Bloomsbury, and books began to be outhoused in a building of the old Arsenal, ten miles away. The British Library was subsequently established by Act of Parliament in 1972 as "the national centre for reference, study and bibliographical and other information services, in relation both to scientific and technological matters and to the humanities" Its services were to be made available in particular to institutions of education and learning and to other libraries and industry. The Library was soon in danger of bursting at the seams; the government purchased some new land at St. Pancras, but many were hoping the new building would still be located at Bloomsbury. Asmodeus government agents had successfully outmanoeuvred such plans and lobbied to have Yves power curtailed somewhat with the distance between the two sites. The trials and tribulations between then and now were partly the result of infernal intervention. From the outset of the project, however, there has been opposition from groups even within the divine structure. Traditionalists are motivated by the desire to retain the Round Reading Room in Bloomsbury. Others maintain that the printed book is being superseded by the computerised database. Such differences are typical of the celestial hierarchy in London, with the 'Old Guard' taking the more traditional standpoint, whilst the 'freshmen', many servants of Archangels like Jean or Eli, take the latter stance. Many have good reason to want to keep the Round Reading Room. Some are single-minded admirers of its architecture. Others are lifelong researchers who feel their work-patterns have become woven into the building, indeed many have as the Museum still keep strong ties to Yves despite Hell's efforts. It's just that now the Seneschal's work has been increased as he tries to maintain two sites (and Valefor's opportunistic servants face a relatively easier chance of making a name for themselves here). There is also the local commercial community which could lose custom if readers migrated northwards, so Marc has reason to keep things at Bloomsbury. However, the storage capacity of St Pancras is three times that of Bloomsbury so that the chance of a book needing to be delivered is greatly reduced. The British Library does not plan to retain any reader or storage accommodation in the British Museum. The Trustees of the British Museum stated that they accept the obligation to retain the Round Reading Room as a reading room and that it will remain in use for readers of the Museum's own collections. The Reading Room is really the 'ground zero' for the Museum's tether and will obviously be maintained as a result. The main responsibility of the British Library is to preserve its historic collections, to continue to build the national printed archive, and to make its holdings available to present and future readers. A bold commitment to the word of Destiny and Yves' own 'brief'. The time is long past when these responsibilities could be adequately discharged from Bloomsbury and Holborn and their satellite sites. The local servants of Yves, including the Seneschal, Randolph, have committed themselves to the new site to better accommodate Destiny for the new millennium. Despite the setbacks (and interference), they still have control over the Library and it's former home St. the Museum (as they do have links to all other museums, and other repositories of knowledge in London). Because f this and because of the rich volume of British culture, Yves has a significant strength here. Seneschal: Randolph, Ofanim of Dictionaries, is the overseer of Destiny in London. His full details are found in H&H (go buy!). his role here, though, will probably require him to be somewhat stronger all round, but Randolph is not alone in his efforts of course. He is now almost permanently ensconced at the new building whilst another Angel oversees the museum and the Round reading room in particular. (the Museum is described below.) The British Museum: One of the world's greatest museums. In fact three collections stimulated the parliament into action: the library and antiquities of Sir Robert Cotton, the manuscripts of Robert Harley, earl of Oxford and, most importantly, the extensive collection of Sir Hans Sloane, a physician who filled his house at no.4 Bloomsbury Place with a vast collection of 'plants, fossils, minerals, coins, books and manuscripts', some 79,575 pieces in all which he later moved to his country hose at Chelsea. He suggested in his will that the government buy his private collection They did, and in 1753 passed the British Museum act for London, and the world's, first public museum opened on January 15, 1759. Rules were strict: entry only by written application, only ten tickets per hour, only three hours of opening per day, and 'No money to be given to the servants'. The collection rapidly outgrew the original location in Montague House, Bloomsbury which was purchased in 1755 after a public lottery had raised £300,00. George II bequeathed the Royal Library of 10,500 volumes in 1757. Sir William Hamilton gave his antique vase collection. The Charles Towney classical sculptures came in 1805; then the Lansdowne manuscripts in 1807. The famous Greek Marbles from the Parthenon and Erechtheum were brought from Lord Elgin in 1816; all this alongside Captain Cook's finds, David Garrick's plays, Sir Stamford Raffles' Javanese collection, Felix Slade's glass and drawings, and the Bank of England's coins. With the gift by George IV of his father's library in 1823, Montague House proved quite inadequate and a new and larger building was begun ion the same site. The first wing completed was the King's Library in 1826, the classical south front was finished in 1852. The building, however, was already too small, partly owing to the growth of the library, and in 1857 the famous domed Reading Room was constructed by Sidney Smirk to a plan by Sir Anthony Panizzi, the principal librarian, in what had been the inner courtyard. With the acquisition of the Greenville Library and the material from excavations in Assyria and Asia Minor, accommodation once more became a problem, and in 1881 the natural history collections were transferred to their present home in South Kensington. New wings were added on the south east and the Southwest in 1882-84, and in 1914 the fine King Edward VII Building was opened on the north side. The newspaper went off to Colindale in 1904. The North Library was reconstructed in 1937, and a new gallery on the west, the gift of Lord Duveen, was built in 1938 for the magnificent sculptures of the Parthenon, the Ethnographical collections were transferred to the new Museum of Mankind in Burlington Gardens in 1970. The present building now houses some 4 million objects divided between Greek and Roman, Egyptian, Prehistory and Roman Britains, Ethnography (housed elsewhere at the Museum of Mankind), Oriental, Coins and Medals, Medieval and Later Antiquities, Prints and Drawings, Western Asiatic and Japanese Antiquities. It grows weekly, with finds (most major British Archaeological discoveries come here), bequests, and careful acquisitions. Also to be found here are a number of relics, most notably the Rosetta Stone (which is empowered with the Corporeal Song of Tongues). But there are many others. The British Museum now covers more than 13 acres, and is the largest museum in Britain. It employs over 1200 staff and has over 4 million visitors each year, more than most museums in the world. Gifts to the museum include the royalties to the play Pygmalion bequeathed by the author George Bernard Shaw. The main doorway opens direst into a large Entrance Hall. On the left is the approach to the Publications Gallery and the collections of Greek, Roman and Egyptian sculptures. Beyond is the main staircase, ascending to the Prehistoric, Roman and Medieval Rooms. Opposite the staircase is the entrance to the exhibition of Books and Manuscripts, ad straight ahead is the Reading Room. The British Library reading Room, where Karl Marx composed Das Kapital, is normally open to ticket holders only, but visitors are allowed to see it on advance application. The huge circular hall, accommodating about 450 readers, is covered by a dome 106', only 2' less than the Parthenon at Rome, the widest hemispherical dome in the world. In the centre is the raised desk of the officials, and round this are two circular desks containing the General Catalogue (of books etc., published before 1970), which runs to 2110 large volumes of about 500 pages each, the most extensive publication in the world. A cabinet holds a card index of books from 1970 onward. Maps and music are entered in separate catalogues. From the central desks those at which reader sit are spread out like the spokes of a wheel. The ground floor shelves around the room hold a large selection of reference books which may be consulted directly by readers; other books are obtained by filling in application slips. Seneschal: Belshazzar is the Angel in charge of the Museum. He too is wordbound like Randolph, but acknowledges the Ofanim as his superior in earthly matters, although he's usually given free reign (given his status) to take care of things as he sees fit. Belshazzar is a Cherub, attuned to the Reading Room (and some of the more potent exhibits!); he carries the word of Museums. Where Randolph is more progressive (for a member of London's celestial upper class), Belshazzar is more traditional and both have had their differences in the past - especially over the new building and the future (fate?) of the Library. Belshazzar has the following Rites: Compose a monograph, write a speech, or otherwise learn something new, in the Reading Room +1 (GM's can upgrade this if the composition is significantly better or bigger than average) Return a stolen item to the Museum (from the Museum) +1 (+2 if stolen by a demon of Theft) Enable an Relic to be permanently stored at the Museum +1 Other ideas. comments, criticism, verbal abuse always welcome! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:57:18 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Valefor and Yves On Sun, Jul 26, 1998 at 03:33:00PM +0200, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > Well, I'm quite firmly in the "Janus=Valefor"-camp, and I think Yves and > Janus set the whole thing up to allow Janus to become an agent in Hell, or > something similar. How he hides his angelic nature? No idea. :) > More to the point, how does he make demons, or bind demons to an angelic Word? (Assuming that Valefor actually does tend to steal Servitors rather than create them, I still find it hard to believe that Janus can have a demonic Word.) And what deals did Janus make with Lucifer? I don't have a problem believing that Janus can hide his Ofanite self from the scrutiny of most of the Princes, or that he can avoid enquiries easily with his sickeningly high Fast-Talk skill, but from Lucifer? Or, for that matter, Kronos? OTOH, it makes the existence of Habbalah of Theft actively amusing. In a way, they are angels. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #875 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.