From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Aug 17 16:54:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19785 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:54:25 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id RAA19787 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:01:47 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:01:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199808172201.RAA19787@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #921 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, August 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 921 In this digest: IN> Broken Hearts IN> Malakim at the Gates of Hell IN> Sharon, Angel Of Families Re: IN> Sharon, Angel Of Families Re: IN> Dark Malakim (long!) Re: IN> Real Life In Nomine 0:) Re: IN> Stupid Lilim tricks (was Re: IN> Dissonance question) Re: IN> Superiors book Re: IN> A few revised band attunements Re: IN> A few revised band attunements Re: IN> Demon Conception Re: IN> Stupid Lilim tricks (was Re: IN> Dissonance question) Re: IN> Malakim at the Gates of Hell Re: IN> The Crusades Re: IN> angel atvantage Re: IN> Stupid Lilim tricks (was Re: IN> Dissonance question) Re: IN> A few revised band attunements Re: IN> Dark Malakim (long!) Re: IN> IN writing & future books Re: IN> Real Life In Nomine 0:) Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #917 Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim. (no spoilers here!) Re: IN> Demon Conception Re: IN> Re: IN- IN writing & future books Re: IN> Is In Nomine In Trouble Re: IN> Stupid Lilim tricks (was Re: IN> Dissonance question) Re: IN> Demon Conception ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:55:34 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Broken Hearts >>>Uhm, yeah, it is a bit weasely. The sentence doesn't say that Superiors may not break a Servitor's Heart. It says that they can not break it.<<< No, it doesn't. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 21:02:54 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Malakim at the Gates of Hell >>>I'd also get really chummy with the Malakim assigned to guard the Gates. I'm the most powerful Balseraph in existance; I can mess with a few Malakim. I'd get them to get comfortable. I'd make friends with them. I'd do them free favors. I'd loan them a few Lilim for company (in time - when I'm sure that they won't kill the Lilim, and after making promises to the Lilim). I'd sympathize with them about how bad their lot in life is, and about how rough a time they are having watching the Gates of Hell. I'd even feed them a demon or two, just to make them happy.<<< I am absolutely sure that Dominic has thought about all these possibilities, and that Lucifer would have already tried this if it would work. The Malakim stationed at the gates of Hell aren't going to listen to Lucifer or any other demon, they aren't going to accept any favors, they sure as hell aren't going to fail to waste any Lilim that try to cozy up to them. They don't have a "rough time" watching the Gates of Hell, they enjoy it and are honored to hold this duty. At the slightest indication that either of them is discontent, Dominic will replace them in a heartbeat. (And he probably made them swear an oath to report even the slightest doubt or discontent they might feel....Dominic is NOT going to let angels in this position slip!) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 21:40:42 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Sharon, Angel Of Families >>>She sends her servitors out to encourage Opposite sex marrages, and vehemently refuses to aid those familes of a same sex marrage.<<< This from the Angel of Families, a Servitor of Flowers? If she was the Angel of Traditional Family Values and a Servitor of Dominic or Laurence, maybe. But as written she's really limiting the scope of her Word and she sounds rather dissonant to me. Oh, by the way: usually it's not necessary to list Superiors of the opposite side as "Enemies"; you can pretty much assume that all Archangels and Demon Princes regard one another as Enemies. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:03:44 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Sharon, Angel Of Families Really? Would Dom and As REALLY consider eachother enemies? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:38:00 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Dark Malakim (long!) On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, David Edelstein wrote: > The following article is a section that was originally written for "Fall of > the Malakim." However, for various reasons, it was decided that it did not > fit with current canon or with the intended storyline, so it was cut. I > have received permission from SJ Games to repost it elsewhere. > > Please note, this is all very much NON-CANON. However, I thought some > people might be interested in an alternate interpretation of Malakim. Very, very cool. Personally, these Dark Malakim sound far more interesting than Fallen Malakim. Is this the only place they will ever posted, or are you going to put them on a web page somewhere? Richard "Mr. Uriel" Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page. The Gaming Ghetto, at In Nomine: The Last Days, at Walking the Planes, at - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:39:53 EDT From: CaelinR@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Real Life In Nomine 0:) <> You're slightly off on one point. Most likely, Austin is analogous to the *higher* heavens, where beings exist in direct contact with God and/or Mr. Jackson. So heaven would be some place where the goals of SJ (higher sales, wider game distribution) are being furthered, but people are not in contact with him, and most likely have never met him, with the possible exception of a rare and memorable occasion. Heaven is your local gaming retailer. I know mine is. -ALD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 01:18:24 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Lilim tricks (was Re: IN> Dissonance question) At 3:43 PM -0400 8/16/98, Steve Jessop wrote: >Munchkin Alert: [Snip "You do X for me, or I'll geas you to do something you really, really don't want to do!" idea.] > So a decent sized >Geas is worth far more in blackmail than it could possibly be to actually >use, no? Not really. For one thing, this won't work on Mundane Humans! Imagine some woman who saved your life from a fire three years ago, calls you up and says, "Help me rob a jewelry store, or I'll make you kill your wife." You'd think she was crazy, wouldn't you? You know nothing about "real" Angels or Demons, you have no idea a that she's a Lilim, or that one could make you do such a thing.. So you will call her bluff, because you don't believe she can make you do what she wants you to. Even if she's invoked several Geasa on you, it's still possible that you won't know that she's capable of this; you may believe that succumbing to her requests was your idea! Furthermore, if she does enforce the Geas to make you kill your wife, she can't change her mind later; it's either "Kill your wife." or "You're free and clear." Either way, she's robbing that jewelry store by herself. Sure, she can say "Kill your Wife" and enforce it, and then say "I'll remove the compulsion if you rob this jewelry store with me", but that's wasting a whole Geas/6 just to get the guy to rob one jewelry store. Much easier to use just the amount of Geas that's neccesary. It can work on the Symphonically Aware, but the target has to believe the Celestial is a Lilim, and know what Lilim can do. Since Geas-Hooks aren't noticed by anyone but Superiors to begin with, /anybody/ can pull this one off, so long as the target isn't sure what Band (or Choir!) she is, and she can convincingly claim to have done something for him that he really needed. Well, anyone except for the non-Dissonant Seraph, of course. Also, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It's markedly unpleasant when someone a Lilim's geased herself to (or someone who's been traded a Lilim's geas) tries the same trick. At least Hellside Lilim can look to Mom's past interference to discourage this practice. Maybe. (Sorry for the gratuitous use of exclamation points, I'm feeling exuberant today.) ===== ><{{"> =================================================== <"}}>< ====== Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Trudy, Impudite Captain of Gluttony, the Demon of Popcorn nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu | Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh maltesh@usa.net | In Nomine: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh/T317 ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 01:28:53 -0400 From: Drake Subject: Re: IN> Superiors book > >Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:18:39 -0400 (EDT) > >From: Casca > >Subject: IN> Superiors book > > >On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Matt Lee wrote: > > >> Nomine) So my point being, I like the idea of saying "This series fits > >> together and advances our setting" and also at the same time giving some > >> new superiors and expanding on others (a Superior book isnt the worst idea > >> but with or w/o it these books make sure you still get new superiors a > >> little bit at a time and don't have to a) wait for a big superior book or > >> b) stop getting new superiors after that book's done) and as for the > > >Speaking of which, -will- we be seeing a Superiors book? I'd sure like > >see one, especially if the portraits were in color like in the main book. > > >It'd also be a great place to put thos spiffy Superior rules Walter keep > >alluding to. > > >- -- Casca, Seraph of Archives > >(bertishg@db.erau.edu) > Well, until a Superior's Book comes out, if anyone is interested, I have done an extensive work on giving rules and powers to Superiors, including the famous Word Forces I developed with inspiration from others. My work even has a song in it called Song of Life, which a person I know reading the Playtest files of the Song Book, told me that their version of Song of Life sounded a lot like the one I came up with... So obviously, the work I did at this wasn't that bad.. perhaps in need of a little streamlining.. And I do hope that if any of the things I came up with on Superiors or Word Forces is actually ever used (Such as in a Superior's Book) that I would get a little credit for the long hours I put in on this :) But if anyone wants a copy of it and either is new to the list or deleted their old In Nomine posts, then let me know and I'll send ya a copy of it. Drake ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:06:35 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> A few revised band attunements On Sun, Aug 16, 1998 at 03:43:26AM +0100, Warsinger wrote: > > (useful, yes, but boring) one Andre gives in canon. It seems to suit them > > better, making them into true seductresses, not just powered-up vanilla > > Lilim. > > I hadn't really thought about it - but now that I see this version I much > prefer it. Given all the legends about infernal seductresses which in In > Nomine universe basically means Lilim or Andre's servitors, or better yet > the two combined it makes perfect sense. The thing is, as written up already, Lilim of the War are the perfect seductresses and I don't see why we need another set of them. The Lilim of Lust attunement is not boring. Before I even understood how the Lilim resonance works, I considered it one of the most powerful attunements in the game, in that once you've had one, you will have to keep coming back for more. +3 sex appeal and 4-6 Seduction (standard Lustie stuff) will get them into the beds of anyone whose bed they had a chance of getting into, anyway. > > ] SAMINGA'S HABBALAH > > > > > With one simple change, brazenly stolen from Jean's Mercurians, Saminga's > > Habbalah are now quite useful. The resistance roll doesn't change, so I > > don't see this as being at all unbalancing...it just makes them natural > > possessors, for a fair price. > It's certainly a better form of that attunement. > Makes sense, and actually gives them something to do, although while it > wouldn't make very good game material I sort of saw Samainga's Habbalah as > mainly punishing the dead in Hell. > Some of them do, and some of them pick out souls on earth for Judgement. I don't like the existing attunement, and don't really see what the Song of Possession has to do with Habbalah or Death at all, but I don't know what to give them instead. Automatic detection of people who like killing? Or should I give that to Lilim of Death? Oh, and while I'm objecting to attunements, why do Elohim of Trade get Seraph of the Sword and Seraphim of Trade get Elohite of War? And what's Cherub of Trade again, because I haven't seen my book in months? Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:52:22 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> A few revised band attunements On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > The thing is, as written up already, Lilim of the War are the perfect > seductresses and I don't see why we need another set of them. A/ That what Lilim in general spend a lot of time doing, and it is their speciality and B/ It doesn't really make sense that Lilim of the War be better at seducing than Lilim of Lust (Andre might get jealous :) ). The Lilim of > Lust attunement is not boring. Before I even understood how the Lilim > resonance works, I considered it one of the most powerful attunements in > the game, in that once you've had one, you will have to keep coming back > for more. +3 sex appeal and 4-6 Seduction (standard Lustie stuff) will get > them into the beds of anyone whose bed they had a chance of getting into, > anyway. > The original is very nice - but the whole is it boring issue is a little too subjective (WOW - I went Elohim there - that's unusual :) ). Whether it is a good Attunement or not is not really the issue, it is whether or not it is the appropriate attunement. > > > ] SAMINGA'S HABBALAH > > > > > > > > > Makes sense, and actually gives them something to do, although while it > > wouldn't make very good game material I sort of saw Samainga's Habbalah as > > mainly punishing the dead in Hell. > > > Some of them do, and some of them pick out souls on earth for Judgement. I > don't like the existing attunement, and don't really see what the Song of > Possession has to do with Habbalah or Death at all, but I don't know what > to give them instead. Automatic detection of people who like killing? Or > should I give that to Lilim of Death? Yes, I was wondering about the connection between the Song of Possession and Habbelah of Death, but I just assumed I was missing something obvious. Hmm trying to think of something else that would work. Bonuses for giving people the desire to kill maybe, or heightening that desire? > > Oh, and while I'm objecting to attunements, why do Elohim of Trade get > Seraph of the Sword and Seraphim of Trade get Elohite of War? And what's > Cherub of Trade again, because I haven't seen my book in months? Can't rem the details for these - not got my book atm either. Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:02:22 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Demon Conception On Wed, Aug 12, 1998 at 09:54:52PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >I'm not sure about the use of Humanity. You have to pay Essence every day > >in order to maintain the human state (IIRC), and don't get any Essence > >while doing so. > > It's not clear if you can't be *fed* daily Essence, though, by > someone else. (Gamesters get 2 per day, and Humanity only needs 1.) > I assumed it meant you don't get the daily 2 Essence, and have to spend the 1 Essence to get Humanity. Even if you do get the extra Essence that Asmodeus sends you, it's still effectively as if you have a level 6 Celestial Discord, which isn't pleasant. > >And while we're on the subject, given that Celestial Vessels are normally > >sterile, do they menstruate? > > It probably depends on who created the vessel, but none of *MY* PCs > do!! I suspect default is 'no' unless they're married to a mundane > or something. > I assumed this, but it's nice to have clarification. It might well be useful for Seraphim to do so, though, because there are such things as medical examinations. (Mithredath doesn't, but carries a half-empty bag of tampons around with her anyway, for purposes of misdirection.) > And they don't get PMS, either. What if David gives it to them as a test of their endurance? Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:24:42 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Lilim tricks (was Re: IN> Dissonance question) On Sun, Aug 16, 1998 at 10:20:32PM +0100, Jo Hart wrote: > I guess because the Lilim agrees to geas herself not to make you kill your > dog/ that cop etc, and in return you rob the shop. Next time she turns up, > there is a more limited number of things she could use the geas for so she > doesn't have much to blackmail you on... You have to _know_ to demand that > she geases herself to keep her word though, and I'm not sure most non-lilim > would have that much knowledge of the geas mechanics. > I've been toying with the idea of a Demon Prince of Treachery (and an adventure to go with his ascension, where he tries to get Saminga's Servitors to overthrow him), and the Lilim of Treachery attunement is this: You can pretend to geas yourself to something without actually doing so, and the geas will manifest celestially to all eyes that see, and will be picked up by the Ofanim of Judgement attunement (I'm not sure about Lilim of Fate). Resonances can still detect lies/smugness, etc., and Superiors will not be fooled. It's evil, but then all the attunements I've come up with for Treachery are evil. And yes, I realise that Lilith will have problems with the new Prince, even if he does off Saminga and install someone with better dress sense. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:34:57 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: Re: IN> Malakim at the Gates of Hell > I am absolutely sure that Dominic has thought about all these > possibilities, and that Lucifer would have already tried this if it would > work. > > The Malakim stationed at the gates of Hell aren't going to listen to > Lucifer or any other demon, they aren't going to accept any favors, they > sure as hell aren't going to fail to waste any Lilim that try to cozy up to > them. They don't have a "rough time" watching the Gates of Hell, they enjoy > it and are honored to hold this duty. Maybe in your game but I like the idea and will use it in my game. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:46:42 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> The Crusades On Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 11:34:03AM -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Indeed. If Yves cares about cultural and national destinies as > well as individuals, the Crusades might have interested him a lot > on that level. One notable event of the Crusades was the Sack of > Byzantium, by one band of Crusaders. This sent scades of refugees > into western Europe, some of them scholars who brought their knowledge > and some of their books with them. This produced a major revival of > classical learning in western Europe -- the renewal of interest in > Aristotle, in particular, leading into the Renaissance. The Crusades > in general stimulated interest in western Europe in matters of trade > and travel, leading into the Age of Discovery. The net result is > the general ascendancy of the West over the rest of the world. > > Now, is that the result Yves *wanted*? Is this something Janus wanted? Given my reading of history, I say yes. I assume that Janus is very good at predicting trends in human society. He doesn't have the special insight that Yves, Kronos or Gabriel has, but he can do Hari Seldon style broad probability predictions, and where strongly related to his Word, can do them with staggering precision. He can look into the sky and see the motion and position of every molecule and process the short-term results instantly. (And so can all his Elohim.) It's not too much of a stretch for me to assume that he can look upon human society and see where it is going, and whether it will go in a different direction if someone does X. And as the embodiment of chaos, he can do some funky things with butterflies... Much is made of how Hell has shaped human society, but how much has Janus done so? And to what end? And how much of what he does is on his own initiative, and what secret orders does/did he get from Above? Or is it the exact opposite? > Is it just a general big fact of history that Yves and Kronos both > cope with and exploit? Is it something Yves was under orders from > Above to bring about, as part of the general Destiny of humanity? > Ditto Kronos and Fate? > > A Crusades adventure could have a few angels of Destiny mixed in, > asking all these questions somewhat before the events they address, > keeping other characters intrigued and/or off-balance. > The Crusades also resulted in the creation of Europe's banking system, and created the nations of Spain, Portugal and Prussia, in addition to the final death of the Hohenstaufen dynasty and the subsequent rise of the Hapsburgs from obscurity to hegemony in Europe. And this is discounting the effects on the Middle East (could Islam have held off the Mongols without the Crusades to put the Mamelukes in a position of power?). Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:10:13 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> angel atvantage On Fri, Aug 14, 1998 at 12:26:17PM -0400, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: > > as a player of demons and a GM with many demons Chars. The disatvantages (in > > short) suck. It is like SJgames doesn't want you to play demons. > > Nope. They just don't want you to play demons in Hell. The action is on > Earth, after all. > Actually, I recall a statement saying that Hell was a good setting for a campaign and Heaven wasn't, because Hell was such an awful place to be and you can do Paranoia/paranoia style campaigns there, whereas in Heaven people know that everyone is out to do good and means well, so disagreements either get sorted out or put in a stack labelled 'unmentionable'. Just yesterday, I played a game set in 1920s Russia. Every surviving PC and NPC died at the conclusion (with the obvious exception of the executioners), including the person responsible for getting everyone else executed (me). It was a great deal of fun, and I really enjoyed playing an NKVD officer, which is different from a Game agent only in that their jurisdiction is different. My favourite in-character thought was "He asked to see the engine, therefore he is a spy and a saboteur". This kind of thing is typical of Hell. The Angels of Final Judgement are probably nicer to demons than most demons are, and besides, they don't attack, so why worry about them? Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:29:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Lilim tricks (was Re: IN> Dissonance question) On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > I've been toying with the idea of a Demon Prince of Treachery (and an > adventure to go with his ascension, where he tries to get Saminga's > Servitors to overthrow him), and the Lilim of Treachery attunement is > this: You can pretend to geas yourself to something without actually doing > so, and the geas will manifest celestially to all eyes that see, and will > be picked up by the Ofanim of Judgement attunement (I'm not sure about > Lilim of Fate). Resonances can still detect lies/smugness, etc., and > Superiors will not be fooled. > It's evil, but then all the attunements I've come up with for Treachery > are evil. And yes, I realise that Lilith will have problems with the new > Prince, even if he does off Saminga and install someone with better dress > sense. Not just Lilith. The non-Treachery Lilim would have a real problem with this because this Attunement could theoretically be given to any Lilim. This would reduce the reliability of *all* Lilim, with correspondingly negative results on what jobs people are interested in hiring Lilim for, the price they can charge in a situation where you need someone reliable, the likelihood that they can buy their way out of a nasty situation by promising a future favor, and so on. Any Lilim known to have this attunement (Lilim of Treachery and any other Lilim to whom it is granted) can pretty well be guaranteed that her sisters will backstab her at every opportunity. Since Lilim ordinarily get along pretty well, that's a high price to pay. Since the Lilim are some of Lilith's power base, it hurts her as well -- and it probably offends her. She won't be pleased with any of her Daughters who Bind to Treachery. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:35:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> A few revised band attunements On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Warsinger wrote: > > Some of them do, and some of them pick out souls on earth for Judgement. I > > don't like the existing attunement, and don't really see what the Song of > > Possession has to do with Habbalah or Death at all, but I don't know what > > to give them instead. Automatic detection of people who like killing? Or > > should I give that to Lilim of Death? > > Yes, I was wondering about the connection between the Song of Possession > and Habbelah of Death, but I just assumed I was missing something obvious. It *kinda* makes sense to me. It's one soul displacing another one and stealing their meat shell, not unlike how ghosts are supposed to. A very tenuous link, to be sure... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Official Martyr of X-Day! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:09:47 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Dark Malakim (long!) David Edelstein wrote: > [massive snip] > DARKER THAN DARK? > > No angel can have more Discord of any one type than the sum of their > Forces, which puts an effective limit of three times an angel's Forces in > Discord, total. It's possible that unusual situations could inflict even > more Discord on a Dark Malakite, to the point that he's reached his limit > in all three types of Discord, and beyond. What happens then? > > This is another one of Heaven's unanswered questions, because it's never > happened. Would the Dark Malakite simply keep accumulating Discord, beyond > the limits previously thought possible? Would he self-destruct as his > Forces disintegrate under the weight of so much Discord? Or would this > finally shatter his Heart...causing a former Malakite to Fall? > > Hell would dearly love to know the answer, and Heaven would like to make > sure no one ever finds out. I like this -- it works without invalidating the "Malakim can't Fall" axiom. On first reading it seems balanced for game play. As for the "Darker than Dark" section [quoted above], IMC I would have the Malakim detonate: a Discord bomb going off. Any Celestial nearby [GM's judgement as to what qualifies for 'nearby'] rolls d666; an Angel getting an Infernal Intervention or a Demon getting a Divine Intervention will be struck by a random level 1 Discord. Preventing this sort of random handicapping of Celestial operatives is yet another reason why all hands are raised against these poor sods -- no one wants to be around at ground zero when a Discord bomb [Dark Malakim] detonates. One other note: only the Celestially aware need worry about the shrapnel -- the Symphony protects the Mundanes, shielding them from the effects. Sorcerors, soggies, sohos, demons, angels, and etherials are all valid targets for this 'shrapnel'. just my Ferry-man's fare, tom timberlake ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:18:11 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> IN writing & future books Walter Milliken wrote: > > This is the point where I would like to give those SJG writers who read and reply > >to the list a standing ovation. I really appreciate the fact that Archangel Beth, > >Walter, David, John and others take the time to listen and answer, and more > >importantly, are *conscientious* about the work they do for In Nomine. > > Well, we're mostly players first and writers second, so we don't want it > to be bad -- we have to live with the result.... In fact, that's literally true. All four people mentioned were fans and players of the game (and active on the lists) long before becoming writers/editors/whatnot. One of the reasons the latter books have been much tighter than the first few is that there were more dedicated _players_ looking at them before they became writers. It's amazing what a love of a setting and a fresh viewpoint can do... especially when combined with a lot of sweat. ;) > Beyond that, there's an outline for another Cycle, and a half-dozen or > so "core book" ideas, all of which sound interesting. I've been arguing > that we need to run a survey here to see which ideas people like the > most. Hey, that sounds like a good idea. I've got my own ideas of what I'd like to see (and what I'd like to produce... not entirely the same list). Just as a teaser: some of the proposed ideas look very, very neat. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:20:23 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Real Life In Nomine 0:) Walter Milliken wrote: > > while his Archangels (Archangel > >Beth, Walter Milliken, David Edelstein, etc.) have to do all of the > >explaining and dirty work? :P > > I think it's mostly because we have either time or good net access or > both... not all of the other writers and editors do. Also, I think we > four (adding John Karakesh) have been responsible for a lot of recent > canon, and of course Elizabeth is responsible for *everything* these > days.... Yup. Before Beth came along, I had to propose canon all by my lonesome and try to squeeze some agreement out of the private mailing list because there wasn't a committed line editor. Things are much, much better now. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:29:29 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #917 At 10:23 PM -0700 8/15/98, David Streeter wrote: >The only canon articles I think that should go on the web are the >errata, the FAQ, and articles in Pyramid magazine (are they canonical?) (Some Pyramid articles are more canonical than others. Consider them that nice word I alwasy forget that means, "Fuzzy canon." The story of Legion, for instance...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:35:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim. (no spoilers here!) At 6:19 PM +0100 8/16/98, Jo Hart wrote: >At 15:50 15/08/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Why are bright lilim more annoying than any other hellborn convert? They keep thinking people Need to be cheerful, and nobody knows how to shut them up. (And you can't foist them off on others of their own Choir for training.) (C'mon, *tell* me Mira isn't working on relentlessly cheerful?) >Are >brights who fall treated worse than any other redeemed demon who falls? >(and if so, why?) Yes, and because they make fun Djinn-chew-toys. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:44:53 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Demon Conception At 12:02 PM +0100 8/17/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >On Wed, Aug 12, 1998 at 09:54:52PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >I'm not sure about the use of Humanity. You have to pay Essence every day >> >in order to maintain the human state (IIRC), and don't get any Essence >> >while doing so. >> >> It's not clear if you can't be *fed* daily Essence, though, by >> someone else. (Gamesters get 2 per day, and Humanity only needs 1.) >> >I assumed it meant you don't get the daily 2 Essence, and have to spend >the 1 Essence to get Humanity. Even if you do get the extra Essence that >Asmodeus sends you, it's still effectively as if you have a level 6 >Celestial Discord, which isn't pleasant. Yo, don't assume Princes. All you need for this trick is your handy, dandy Djinn of the Game partner. You do Humanity. You pay 1 Essence to keep it running. Even if you don't get your 2 Essence for being a Gamester at sunset, *your partner* gets his 2 Essence. Now, your Partner feeds you 1 Essence per day (half of what he's been getting) and you maintain Humanity indefinitely. (Why a Djinn? Because he's attuned to you and will follow you around sullenly.) >> And they don't get PMS, either. > >What if David gives it to them as a test of their endurance? He would die. (Why, yes, I *DO* have PMS right now!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:31:33 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- IN writing & future books Bartholomew Hammerly wrote: > Quick question for all who want to respond. Kyrios of Michael can > actually use a vessel in the Corporeal realm. Are they allowed to use > two vessels, and split themselves likewise (be a human and and wolf, > with no time limit, and no dissonance for leaving your vessel worse > off)? Yes. Though, it'd be kinda weird for a Kyrio to use up all his potential on permanent vessels. Kyriotates of Michael tend to have one vessel for luck and keep the rest of their potential for controlling other beings. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:35:00 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Is In Nomine In Trouble Gregory Littmann wrote: > > I read about the Black Friday at SJG and all the lay-offs. I've been > told that GURPS is going to be just fine. Anyone heard anything about In > Nomine? In Nomine makes money for SJGames after the bottom line is determined. The creative use of freelancers (and their generally good quality) keeps the cost of producing IN material down to a reasonable level (good manuscripts and volunteers help reduce the editorial load... and the editors are, themselves, mostly freelancers). - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:38:13 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Lilim tricks (was Re: IN> Dissonance question) Steve Jessop wrote: > Munchkin Alert: > > What's to stop a Lilim saying 'Well, now. *Either* I can invoke my Geas/6 > to make you kill (your dog/that cop/your chances of promotion) *or* you > can give me a hand robbing that there jewellery shop. Glad you saw sense. > See you again next year...' > > Presumably a human will blow their 1d6-3 essence on the resistance roll, > but they still can't afford to call the Lilim's bluff. So a decent sized > Geas is worth far more in blackmail than it could possibly be to actually > use, no? The victim could take this opportunity to bargain. If he knows that the Lilim doesn't really want a dead dog/ cop/whatever, then he can reply, "Okay, you don't really want anyone dead, but you do want help with this jewelry store thing. Can we work off some of my debt if I agree to help you?" This works for the victim in that they can avoid some heinous crime and it works for the Lilim in that they victim waives the right to a Will roll (and dissonance for the demon). - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:43:33 -0700 From: alloni@ibsystems.com (Alloni Kramer) Subject: Re: IN> Demon Conception >>> >I'm not sure about the use of Humanity. You have to pay Essence every day >>> >in order to maintain the human state (IIRC), and don't get any Essence >>> >while doing so. >>> >>> It's not clear if you can't be *fed* daily Essence, though, by >>> someone else. (Gamesters get 2 per day, and Humanity only needs 1.) >>> >>I assumed it meant you don't get the daily 2 Essence, and have to spend >>the 1 Essence to get Humanity. Even if you do get the extra Essence that >>Asmodeus sends you, it's still effectively as if you have a level 6 >>Celestial Discord, which isn't pleasant. > >Yo, don't assume Princes. All you need for this trick is your handy, >dandy Djinn of the Game partner. You do Humanity. You pay 1 Essence >to keep it running. Even if you don't get your 2 Essence for being a >Gamester at sunset, *your partner* gets his 2 Essence. Now, your >Partner feeds you 1 Essence per day (half of what he's been getting) >and you maintain Humanity indefinitely. > >(Why a Djinn? Because he's attuned to you and will follow you >around sullenly.) I would probably say this attunement effectively turns you into a human, so you got the normal human intake of Essence at noon which immediately goes to maintain the attunement. (I'm assuming that's what it does - very little qualifies as a perfect disguise other than actually becoming the thing you're disguising yourself as.) Alloni ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #921 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.