From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Sep 14 23:38:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08813 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:38:31 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id XAA12985 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:19:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:19:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199809150419.XAA12985@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #946 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, September 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 946 In this digest: Fiction Adaption (was Re: IN> Titanic Re: IN> Titanic IN> Game quote Re: IN> Lying IN> adam and eve 2 Re: IN> Game quote Re: IN> A new way to compute disturbance...? Re: IN> Seraphim Shapings Re: IN> A new way to compute disturbance...? Re: IN> Lying Re: Fiction Adaption (was Re: IN> Titanic IN> Introdution and questions. Re: IN> Introdution and questions. Re: IN> Introdution and questions. IN> Zippergate! Re: IN> Introdution and questions. RE: IN> Titanic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:05:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Kinney Subject: Fiction Adaption (was Re: IN> Titanic Hi... it's been a while for me, eh? (John, is the game still going on?) The Titanic post was quite interesting to me.... I've been keeping up with In Nomine, even though it's unlikely I'll get a campaign going anytime soon (one highly conservative player), and I've not had this kind of adaption in mind, at least in In Nomine terms. This fits so well, it's scary. On another angle... how many here have read C.S. Lewis' "Space" trilogy (_Out of the Silent Planet_, _Perelandra_, and _That Hideous Strength_)? I'm in the middle of _Perelandra_ right now, and I find the possible wider scope, if one were to adapt it to IN, would be quite interesting indeed. alberich@iglou.com | Mark Kinney | http://www.iglou.com/nations AKA Mirumoto Maaku, Annoying Bushi Clan Magistrate and Jester "Delegation, n. In American politics, an article of merchandise that comes in sets." -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:08:39 +0000 From: shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Titanic Jack being an angel would also explain how he could fish on a lake in Wisconsin, that wouldn't exist till 5 years AFTER the Titanic sank. ;-) Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:54:32 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: IN> Game quote Sometimes even angels of Destiny blow their stacks... Jason, Mercurian of Destiny, to a slumlord he's trying to reform: "Out of all the billions of souls on Earth, God has decided that you in particular need a little personal attention, and He's commanded me -- one of his angels -- to take time out my busy schedule to get your life back on track. I think the least you can do for me is to show a little f---ing gratitude!!" - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:51:28 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Lying >From: "James H. Foreman" wrote: > >I'm not a member of the mailing list, so if someone could reply to me >directly, I'd appreciate it. I've cc'ed a copy to both you and the list. >My question regards lying. Can angels do it? I'd say yes, because it seems to be pretty much standard practice in all the angel TV shows. At the very least, most angels don't go out of their way to reveal the full truth to any humans. If you want something a little bit more biblical than somewhat cheesy TV shows, then look up Hebrews 13:2 -- "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." I think that it's reasonable to assume that this is meant in much the same spirit as Greek myths about the gods visiting mortals in disguise, in order to test their generosity. So an angel may lie in order to further its service to God, in the same way that a secret agent can lie to people in order to live up to his higher obligation to his nation. But it's likely not at all kosher to deceive gratuitously for personal benefit, and the Dominic's angels of Judgement probably keep a close eye to make sure no angels cross the line. >Seraphs, I know, can't (even slightly), but what about the others? >I remember reading somewhere that the heavenly language is incapable of >communicating falsehoods. If that's true, then wouldn't angels have a >hell of a time dealing with it? This is true, and would probably be a good source of fun roleplay, when a PC has to babysit an angel new-come to Earth, and explain things like white lies and infomercials to it. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:35:52 PDT From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> adam and eve 2 Hi! I'm going to continue with my campaign thoughts as per my last post - I hope this isn't boring anyone! (Don't answer that ;-)) I have decided to go with my last idea - that Adam did consume the Forbidden Fruit, but overcome the state of mortality through creating an Elixir. In fact THE Elixir; this of course gave rise to all the traditional myths of the Holy Grail, fountain of youth etc. Now, here's where it gets interesting; Lilith has found her way onto my ideas in a couple of ways. First she helped Lucifer get into Eden to corrupt Eve (IMG), in return he made her a Princess; and secondly she helped Adam protect his Elixir (and probably himself) from Heaven by putting him in touch with Gebbeleth who was Prince of Secrets at the time. Gebbeleth was pleased to help because of the immense opportunity to expand the power base of his Word, so he immediately assigned one of his highest ranking Djinn to the secret of the Elixir (making him Wordbound - Secret of Immortality). This Djinn, as yet unnamed, has then existed throughout the ages with the job of ensuring the secret remains a secret, and that anyone else who should stumble upon it is eliminated. Talk about infringement of copyright. Adam also agreed to keep the secret for himself as well (or face Gebbeleth's wrath - he made that quite clear!); this was acceptable to the First Man who saw no further us of it beyond his own existence. This opens up the possibility of using a somewhat rewritten version of Feast of Blades as well (which I'm working on) which I've wanted to do for ages because I wanted to introduce Alaemon properly. Now the new Prince of Secrets doesn't know this particular Secret (one of many - se H&H) and, since the Djinn has existed on his own for millennia, isn't about to know. The Djinn, upon learning of the 'death' of his former master decided it was in the Word's overall best interests to keep the elixir affair a secret from Alaemon. He bears his new boss no special grudge - he simply thinks this is the best course of action. He will even kill Adam if that's what it takes - the Djinn is one of the few who know of Adam's continued existence, but he doesn't know where he is or what he's up to. BTW, even Lucifer is unaware of this Secret either (perhaps that's stretching it a bit too far, but…). This is just one part of a larger picture which I will explain in due course (mwah hah hah!); but Lilith isn't finished yet. You see Adam made his roll to resist her Geas (him and Lucifer are the only two who ever have - and she wants one on Lucifer as well!) after she helped him. She wants out now! You see in my game, the Lilim are fathered by Lucifer who basically abuses her and she's had enough so if she can get that one big Geas then…! And that's just the beginning - the Furies make an appearance, and, like the Kindly Ones in Sandman (they originate from Greek myth so its not total plagiarism!), cannot be stopped until their thirst for vengeance is slaked - not by Heaven or Hell (just a small boy)! So perhaps the Archangel of Death can show up as well! Oh boy! Marnie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:53:39 -0400 From: Kirt Dankmyer Subject: Re: IN> Game quote As long as we're exchanging game quotes, here's a choice one from our GM: "There is no sodomy in the Halls of Progress." (Don't ask me why this came up. We do have an Ofanite of Jean in the game, though.) -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:59:56 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> A new way to compute disturbance...? On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > The problem for large disturbances and auto-success > is that the actual perception score of the listener > becomes largely irrelevant. I agree that everyone > should notice a large disturbance event, but IMO > it should be the highly perceptive ones that get > more information from the volume. Unfortunately, > very high TN bonuses hit the weakest part of the d666 system. The system I use is that when you roll to detect a disturbance, you don't get check digit bonuses at all. That still doesn't give high Per characters more info, though. It might also work to say that the info you get on an auto-success is either your CD, or half your Per, whichever is better. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:23:24 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim Shapings At 12:05 PM -0700 9/11/98, Steve Marco wrote: >Could you please explain to me why the Seraphim look like a feathered >many-eyed dragon, and where that dragon is from? In references in the >Bible, they resemble a six winged human. Seraph has, IIRC, similarities to the word for "Serpant" and "Firey" in the original Hebrew. Some of the authors of the INC [plug follows] portray Seraphim as six-eyed serpants with six wings, but that's kind of hard to draw... [The unofficial In Nomine Collection is: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles ! Check out the fiction page!] (And my other explanation for those "humans" -- if they were covering their faces and feet, how can you tell whether they had 6 eyes or a tail? O;>) As a trivia note, my Hebrew dictionary does, indeed, translate the same word for Cherub as "cabbage" as well. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:02:32 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> A new way to compute disturbance...? Steve Jessop wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > The problem for large disturbances and auto-success > > is that the actual perception score of the listener > > becomes largely irrelevant. I agree that everyone > > should notice a large disturbance event, but IMO > > it should be the highly perceptive ones that get > > more information from the volume. Unfortunately, > > very high TN bonuses hit the weakest part of the d666 system. > > The system I use is that when you roll to detect a disturbance, you don't > get check digit bonuses at all. That still doesn't give high Per > characters more info, though. It might also work to say that the info you > get on an auto-success is either your CD, or half your Per, whichever is > better. That's _exactly_ the system I recommended! Hmmmm, great minds do think alike (and no wisecracks from the peanut gallery...). ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2613 MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:32:20 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lying At 8:33 PM -0400 9/12/98, James H. Foreman wrote: >I'm not a member of the mailing list, so if someone could reply to me >directly, I'd appreciate it. > >My question regards lying. > >Can angels do it? Yup. Elohim are the ones who do it the most cold-bloodedly, Mercurians tend to go for bluff and diplomacy, and Kyriotates are always covering up their possessions... >Seraphim, I know, can't (even slightly), but what about the others? Malakim may have oaths against it, but otherwise -- no problem. HOWEVER! Yes, the angelic language does not permit lying (though it can communicate teasing and sarcasm -- you're never unsure whether the person actually *believes* it, though). And yes, new celestials often have a hard time dealing with lies (both hearing them and telling them) for a while, until they learn. They also have a hard time with stoves. ("Aren't we supposed to have a pan to cook the pizza on?" "It doesn't say so." "I'm pretty sure if we just put it in, it's gonna melt all over everything..." "That is, indeed, Truth. These 'cooking instructions' are incomplete.") - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 15:01:11 PDT From: nick jost Subject: Re: Fiction Adaption (was Re: IN> Titanic > > Hi... it's been a while for me, eh? (John, is the game still going on?) I'll grab that since John seems hard to get...sort of...as in really suspended. Nick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:30:05 -0300 From: Felipe Pereira Subject: IN> Introdution and questions. Permit to introduce myself, I am Felipe "Azrael" Pereira, from Brazil, and I've got this incredible book called 'In Nomine' that became my favourite RPG ever. I used to play AD&D and Deadlands (cool tool), but this one got me full of ideas, and my group enjoyed it as much as I did. I've got a few questions for you, if you could hlp me, I would be really happy. (and my players too). Here it goes: 1 - Does a celestial have to spend essence to make their ressonance? 2 - What can I do to players that abuse of it? (in case it doesn't) 3 - For the archangel of Lightning, in his choir attunements it is written: "they're the only servitors who spend Essence to enhance the effects of their Choir attunements". Is it for the check digit, or what? 4 - Is the attunement of an ofanite of Jean automatic or does it spend essence, does she have to make an ressenance roll? (I ruled that it uses, because the player became too abusive of it). And what is the damage of the blast? 5 - If a player has a servant, who is in charge of him, the player or the GM? 6 - I am using a campain with demons and angels togetter, and they did great, fighting someone that was trying to kill 2/3 of the humanity, but how can I make this group stay togheter? Can you give me some ideas? 7 - One important question, I want to make a page about IN NOMINE that is in portuguese, so my friends and my players could see and enjoy it, even they can start playing In NOMINE, I would like to request the use of some images in the In Nomine Page and, of course, put your copyright in the botton of the page, and a link, so they could see yours too and buy books about the game. may I? That is all for now, but more questions are rising as the game goes. Thank you for your attention; Felipe W. Pereira a.k.a. Azrael fwp@globalsite.com.br ICQ number: 2192991 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:48:08 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Introdution and questions. Hi, Felipe! Welcome to the club! Answers: (My humble opinion only. I'm just a fellow player.) 1- No. Your resonance does not cost any essence to use. It's an integral aspect of who and what you are and can be used as easily as you use your eyes, ears, arms and legs. 2- Let them abuse. They're powers, though formidable, are not all-purpose problem solvers. No doubt you'll be throwing enough problems at them without them worrying how to fuel their resonance 3- That, I think, is referring to the fact that some of the choirs can enhance the attunements in specific ways. i.e. the Seraphim having photographic memories, PLUS being able to spend essence to create a video display. 4- Automatic. Sorry about that. But the Angelic Players Guide points out that the damage it does creates a disturbance in the symphony, so you might want to use that as a balancing factor. It attracts the wrong type of attention. 5- Ultimately, the GM. The level of the servant indicates the level of control the player has over him, but the GM control how the servant carries out his orders, if he does at all. 6- You're on your own there, pal. Sorry about that. World Destruction doesn't come along every day, so you might be stretching the boundaries of realism by having another world wide threat. One option is that the group might keep in touch, "unofficially" Because of the shared experiences they might be willing to look the other way instead of killing each other, and even quietly and secretly help each other now and then. 7- I don't work for Steve Jackson Games. I can't help you. Good luck with your game. Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:08:52 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Introdution and questions. 1.) No Resonance is a natural Ability of the Angel. 2.) How? Why would a Seraph want to, every second of every game, want to keep seeing if someone was telling the truth. Alternitivly, A group of Demons who use thier resonance excesssivly are just doing what they are supposed to (Calabim are SUPPOSED to smash things, Impudites are SUPPOSED to suck essence). If they keep trying thier resonance and you dont like it, either slap on some penalties (Like a -3) or make it more dangerous if they fail (like oh.... 2 levels of discord?). 3.) Essentially, whenever a sevitor of Jean uses thier specific Chior attunment, they must spend an essence. I.E. whenever an Ofaninte wishes to jump from outlet to outlet, he must spend an essence. 4.) A lot of debate has hit this power, but I generally say that if it dosent SAY it needs a resonaonce roll, then you dont have to make one. Im sure the APG disagrees with me though. Also remeber that use of power like this disturb the symphony, and would attract the attention of some people the ofanite wouldnt like... say a group of Dominic's Inqusitors? If you feel REALLY mean, how about Inqusitors who show up after some soldiers of Hell check to see whats going on? 5.) The player, but the GM makes all rolls for the Servant, and generally role plays it as well. The jobs the servant do, what orders he recieves, ect. are up to the player, but the servant can resist if he/she/it wishes. Rules for that are in the book. 6.) Thats a tough one, since angels and demons are on opposite sides of the wars. There are of course, MANY resons why angels and demons would stay together. What if the enemy was not alone? And there was another Nhilist out there? Remember that some demons and angels will NOT EVER work together. Shedites and Malakim dont mix... And Calabim are hard to get along with too. On the reverse, remember that some demons will work with angels, Like servitors of Dominic and Asmodeous. And outcasts and Renegades often work together. 7.) Err... youd have to ask someone who works for SJG. Hope that helps. Questsions is what this maling list is for. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John T Perkowski, Ofanite of Arcade Games Maker of Attunements (Challenge me with a word, I guarantee, I get you an attunment for each band or chior in 24 hrs) "Heaven must have sent this mist to help us. (Hits a tree branch he didnt see) OW! Stinking godforsaken mist!."- An ofanite, who shall remain nameless. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:36:24 -0400 From: Brandon Quina Subject: IN> Zippergate! Hmm? Who would the celestial players be in the little drama thats playing out in our capital? I know that Clintons rebuttals and misdirections would make any Balseraph proud, but what does everyone think the various princes and archangels would think? What would they all be trying to do? Id imagine most of the major players before us would be normal humans, manipulated by celestials, possibly. The entire situation would have Andrealphus giddy with tintulation. Infact, ive been piddling around with the fact that just maybe theres a servitor of andrealphus working in the white house, preferablly someone incharge of hiring interns ;) Malphas is probally giddy with the potential of the situation, and probally has his demons working on ALL sides of the issue-- the better to make it more heated, and eventually, more chaotic. But, when push comes to shove, he'd probally want impeachment... Nybbas is loving it, cause he knows that however much we claim to dislike this, the ratings are through the roof. Christopher, the archangel of children, is probally worried about this because of the effect it'll have on the kids. David is probally worried about what it'll do to an already crumbling and divided nation! Afterall, when a stone has a big crack in it, its best not to hammer on it too hardly. Dominic probally wants the guy impeached, and with good reason once you get past all the bull!@#% the white house is constantly pumping up. I've played around with making Kenneth Starr a Servitor of Judgement, who is positivly AMAZED at how the president is managing to get through all this with his blantant Falsehoods. Eli probally thinks its just sex and we should leave the poor guy alone. ::grins:: Gabriel probally wants to burn clinton for praying on the young innocent interns of the world. Janus is probally loving it just cause its soo chaotic. Laurence is probally disgusted, just because of his strong christian morals and such forth. Afterall, he knows that leaders are supposed to be above that kinda stuff :) Novalis probally reserved judgement until all the information came out, and is probally reading the paperback Starr Report at this very moment and coming to her own conclusion (and im leaning toward her being abit upset at clinton for doing all those bad things, but willing to forgive him. Its just her nature. Though she'd probally insist that he REALLY apolgize, instead of this half-baked stuff he's been feeding us.) Brandon, ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:53:34 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> Introdution and questions. Felipe Pereira wrote: > Permit to introduce myself, I am Felipe "Azrael" Pereira, from Brazil, and > I've got this incredible book called 'In Nomine' that became my favourite > RPG ever. I used to play AD&D and Deadlands (cool tool), but this one got > me full of ideas, and my group enjoyed it as much as I did. > I've got a few questions for you, if you could hlp me, I would be really > happy. (and my players too). Welcome to the list, I'm Matthew D. "Demiurge" Schweitzer-Gandy, and I couldn't turn down such a polite request for assistance. The following are answers (as much as possible) to your questions and a few gratutious plugs about certain webpages and individuals. Answers first: > 1 - Does a celestial have to spend essence to make their ressonance? 1. Nope. Essence *may* be spent to enhance resonances, as per pushing Skills (each Essence adds +1 to the target number of the resonance roll). > 2 - What can I do to players that abuse of it? (in case it doesn't) 2. Warn them of possible dissonance (for certain demons) and temporary celestial blindness (for angels and, I suspect, Lilim), when they might need their resonances most. Also, make them aware of or punish them with social repercussions--mortals are mostly unaware of most resonances and their effects, at least consciously. Celestials, on the other hand, tend to know when they are being read (by angels) or manipulated (by demons) and *do not* take kindly to it. In a more polite vein, remind them that it might be a good idea to stare at people and scrutinize them all the time, but that we don't tend to do that for a variety of reasons, and similarly, even though celestials *can* go around shooting their resonances off constantly, most tend to be judicious about how and when they do, and that your players should too. As a *last ditch*, you might let them acquire Discord for their behavior--if the Seraph is constantly resonating people to detect lies, then let him or her develop the Paranoia Discord, as they aren't behaving like a healthy angel anyway, regardless of the rules for acquiring Discords. > 3 - For the archangel of Lightning, in his choir attunements it is written: > "they're the only servitors who spend Essence to enhance the effects of > their Choir attunements". Is it for the check digit, or what? 3. The Seraph, Cherub and Elohite attunements all mention the use of 1 Essence to generate some attunement-specific effect. That is what your quotation refers to. The Ofanite, Malakite, Kyriotate and Mercurian attunements (as *all* other attunements not specifically mentioning it) do *not* require Essence to perform--much like resonances, they're "free" powers. > 4 - Is the attunement of an ofanite of Jean automatic or does it spend > essence, does she have to make an ressenance roll? (I ruled that it uses, > because the player became too abusive of it). And what is the damage of the > blast? 4. It is automatic. No Essence is required. I just checked both the FAQ and Errata to make sure, and they make no mention of it. The damage to both entry and exit points is 3d hits--only to the entry/exit points, not bystanders or other objects. > 5 - If a player has a servant, who is in charge of him, the player or the GM? 5. As with all things, this is at the GM's discretion, but the GM should probably make the servant an NPC--after all, the servant's Level is specifically there to maintain control over them, which would be effectively moot if the player ran the servant as well as his/her own character. YMMV. > 6 - I am using a campain with demons and angels togetter, and they did > great, fighting someone that was trying to kill 2/3 of the humanity, but > how can I make this group stay togheter? Can you give me some ideas? 6. Gratuitous plug #1: _Angelic Player's Guide_ (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/Angelic) and the _Infernal Player's Guide_ (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/Infernal)--APG pp. 88-93 and IPG pg. 86-90, in particular, deal with the notion of mixed parties of celestials. > 7 - One important question, I want to make a page about IN NOMINE that is > in portuguese, so my friends and my players could see and enjoy it, even > they can start playing In NOMINE, I would like to request the use of some > images in the In Nomine Page and, of course, put your copyright in the > botton of the page, and a link, so they could see yours too and buy books > about the game. may I? 7. This is a question for Those Who Actually Work For Steve Jackson Games, as Brian A. Rogers and John T. Perkowski have already pointed out. Specifically, Elizabeth "Archangel Beth" McCoy (arcangel@io.com), resident Archangel and In Nomine Line Editor, and John Karakash (johk@lucent.com), resident Demon Prince and In Nomine netrep, are the folks you might want to ask this question. They tend to respond to polite e-mail. Also, SJG's website has their online policy posted at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html. Check it out. There are a few other resources worth checking out if you haven't already (gratuitous plug #2): SJG's In Nomine homepage (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine) The In Nomine FAQ (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq) In Nomine Errata (http://www.sjgames.com//in-nomine/errata) Rigidly Defined Areas of Doubt and Uncertain--questions that will remain Forever Unanswered (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq/doubt.html) The In Nomine Collection--a veritable plethora of material by authors and players alike, all in one place (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles) Hope this helps, Matthew D. "Demiurge" Schweitzer-Gandy "still looking for the face I had before the world was made" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:15:15 -0400 From: Matthew Stein Subject: RE: IN> Titanic (This is going to be a little weird, but bear with me on it.) Okay, so you're saying that Jack was a Cherub of Destiny; fine, that works as far as it goes. But what about Rose's jilted fiance (what's his name, anyway? I can't remember)? It's dissonant for an angel of Destiny to lead a person away from his destiny, directly or indirectly. Isn't the actions that Jack of Destiny took going to cause him dissonance? I mean, this guy ends the movie on land, soaking wet, very mad, and minus one expensive piece of jewelry - which could have helped him out a lot during the Great Depression (because as you'll recall, Rose explains that he lost all of his money in that event). This guy is not a happy camper - he's broken tables, destroyed things, almost killed Jack (with a gun and by accusing him of theft and having him locked to a pipe) - and I doubt, for some reason, that this adds up to his destiny. Fate maybe, but not destiny. Thus, Jack the Cherub of Destiny has going dissonance. Just my two cents. Like I said - aside from that, the story is great. Matt. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #946 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.