From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jan 3 12:05:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16631 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:05:16 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) id LAA10688 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:47:59 -0600 Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:47:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199901031747.LAA10688@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1076 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, January 3 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1076 In this digest: IN> Following up on archive searching problem Re: IN> Evaporating Malakim IN> Off-Topic - Does anyone actually benefit from the spam? IN> Pronunciation Guide Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might Re: IN> Accept Credit Cards!!! IN> Liber Canticorum - My pretty new toy! Re: IN> Off-Topic - Does anyone actually benefit from the spam? Re: IN> Pronunciation Guide IN> The Sound of One Hand Falling (Re: Evaporating Malakim) Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might Re: IN> List of stuff Re: IN> Accept Credit Cards!!! Re: IN> Off-Topic - Does anyone actually benefit from the spam? Re: IN> Pronunciation Guide Re: IN> Faith Force levels (was: Re: IN> the bile guy!) RE: IN> Pronunciation Guide IN> Re: IN- Liber Canticorum - My pretty new toy! IN> Re: IN- Off-Topic - Does anyone actually benefit from the spam? Re: IN> Baphomet und Templars + INRI Re: IN> Re: IN- Liber Canticorum - My pretty new toy! Re: IN> Accept Credit Cards!!! Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might R: IN> Baphomet und Templars Re: IN> Pronunciation Guide Re: IN> Off-Topic - Does anyone actually benefit from the spam? Re: IN> Word Conflict ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 10:41:30 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: IN> Following up on archive searching problem Just to be sure, I looked until I found an article of mine. They're being archived properly, I just can't find them with the search engine. Anyone's help would be appreciated. Jason onwards ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 10:54:28 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: Re: IN> Evaporating Malakim On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, Kevin Walsh wrote: > On Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 10:08:22AM -0700, Jason Corley wrote: > > > What's the effect > > > on the Symphony and on other Malakim? > > > > You can hear it just like Falling. Malakim actually act more or less like > > they do in canon. > > > I don't remember that Falling ever caused disturbance. Where does it say > it does? Not sure. I thought I remembered it, I might be wrong. Jason all things are new all things are bright and clear in los angeles ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 12:10:36 -0700 From: Michael Tarr Subject: IN> Off-Topic - Does anyone actually benefit from the spam? Completely off topic, I am just wondering if anyone who reads this mailing list's content has ever found a product or service useful and/or enjoyable as a result of someone spamming the list about said product or service or are they wasting bandwidth spamming a blind eye? Or does Nybbas merely ask for the spam to be distributed regardless of outcome? Michael Tarr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 12:12:47 -0700 From: Michael Tarr Subject: IN> Pronunciation Guide Does anyone have a pronunciation guide for IN? Our gaming group argues about the pronunciation of Belial, Nybbas, and Yves among others. Thanks Michael Tarr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 16:23:38 -0500 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >At 10:03 PM -0500 1/1/99, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >>Walter Milliken wrote: > >>>Note that this is only proto-canon, and may change, or may never really >>>make it into the system. >> >>I'll beat on it right now: Free Lilim have Lilith's dissonance conditions, >>and don't have Hearts. Further, in the IPG it notes that Lilith will give >>any of the Lilim -- even bound ones -- access to her Rites if they accept >>her dissonance condition. > >Lilith is, as usual, a special case. I have generally regarded that >trick of hers as something like a modified Geas. But yes, I took that >into account when I was coming up with that notion that dissonance >conditions and Hearts are connected. So no other Prince can do this? This seems inconstent with the idea that Lilith is one of the weaker Princes, and that she isn't wiped out or enslaved mostly due to her monopoly on Lilim production. I don't think it's a good idea, thematically speaking, to randomly give her unique shticks beyond Lilim and geases. It weakens the character portrayal, IMO. I think it makes more sense to let every Prince have the ability to do this, but mostly they refrain due to the obvious bad political side-effects. Run it the same as the way that a character can have Choir/Band attunements from multiple superiors, but usually don't for political reasons. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 21:54:08 -0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might >So no other Prince can do this? > >This seems inconstent with the idea that Lilith is one of the weaker >Princes, and that she isn't wiped out or enslaved mostly due to her >monopoly on Lilim production. I don't think it's a good idea, thematically >speaking, to randomly give her unique shticks beyond Lilim and geases. >It weakens the character portrayal, IMO. > I think it makes outcasts/ renegades work better if you say that a superior's dissonance conditions won't give a celestial dissonance if it has no heart. (ie. once your heart breaks, you can only get dissonance from choir/ band conditions). So maybe Lilim don't get that, and will always keep all the dissonance conditions of any superiors they ever serve, even if they get hearts and later break them.. I think that's perfectly fair. jo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:03:34 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Accept Credit Cards!!! In a message dated 1/2/99 5:16:41 AM Central Standard Time, JToro92692@aol.com writes: > ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS!! > PRE-APPROVED APPLICATION > Good Credit/Bad Credit/No Credit > > NO APPLICATION FEES > For a Limited Time Only! > Regular $195.00 Application Fee Waived For This Offer! > > Increase Your Business Up To 100% Or More, > Just By Accepting Credit Cards! > This Means More Customers...More Orders...More Money! > We Specialize in Home Based Businesses - Apply Today! > Accept Visa, Mastercard, American Express, and Discover! > > Apply Now by visiting our Online Application Site! > We are overwhelmed with Responses... > > http://www.systemwave.com/merchant/ > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > You have been carefully selected to receive the following as > a person obviously interested in this subject based upon your > previous internet postings, or visits to one of our affiliate > web sites. If you have received this message in error, please > email system@systemwave.com with the word unsubscribe in > the subject. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > I'm convinced! This is the best offer that could possibly be! This obviously comes from Marc and not Nybbas! Yeah right! Die, Spammer, Die! Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:20:30 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> Liber Canticorum - My pretty new toy! I just got the Liber Canticorum, and I thought I'd write up my own little review of it. It's cool! (Yeah, I know, I'm not much of a reviewer, am I?) For the benefit of the bile guy, I will point out that the majority of the book is directly useful information. Songs and rules for songs that can be incorporated into a campaign. I also liked the secret, lost and restricted songs, along with the idea that certain choirs, bands, and Words get bonuses at certain songs. I also liked Andre's Songs of Enslavement, which allow me to play out all the sick, misogynistic fantasies I carried over from my adolescence. :p All in all, one of the better buys that have come out for In Nomine of late. A nice change from the Revelations stuff. Thank you and have a happy day, Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:24:41 -0800 From: Greg Jensen Subject: Re: IN> Off-Topic - Does anyone actually benefit from the spam? At 12:10 PM 1/2/99 -0700, you wrote: > Completely off topic, I am just wondering if anyone who reads this >mailing list's content has ever found a product or service useful and/or >enjoyable as a result of someone spamming the list about said product or >service or are they wasting bandwidth spamming a blind eye? Or does Nybbas >merely ask for the spam to be distributed regardless of outcome? Good question. I have never once responded to a spam ad, nor have I bought anything from telephone solicitors. So why do they keep trying? I once had a telephone solicitor get rude after I politely said I'm not interested, and demanded to know why. I said "so I won't encourage more jerks like you to call me up during dinner time." I know a DP has to be behind this, I just want to know if it's Mammon, Nybbas, or Kobal. Greg Jensen http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~gjensen/gregpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:38:29 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Pronunciation Guide At 12:12 PM -0700 1/2/99, Michael Tarr wrote: > Does anyone have a pronunciation guide for IN? No official one yet. I'm thinking that I should make sure that in an otherwise dubious book that has to be put out someday just to be moneygrubbing and tacky, I should ensure there's a pronunciation guide with all the canon pronunciations, so that anyone using the wrong ones can be mocked and have all their books taken away so they have to buy new ones. >Our gaming group argues >about the pronunciation of Belial, Nybbas, and Yves among others. My pronunciations... (Canon? Ha!) (We gotta collect these and put them somewhere.) SER-ah-fim, SER-aff CHAIR-uhb, CHAIR-uh-bim of-FAN-ite, of-FAN-im el-OH-ite, el-OH-im MAL-ah-kite, MAL-ah-kim KEER-ee-oh-TAH-tay, KEER-ee-oh-TAH-tays MER-cur-i-an/mer-CUR-ian BAL-ser-aff GIN CAL-ah-bite, CAL-ah-bim. (That's "bite" as in "bite me.") HAB-ah-lah, HAB-ah-lite LIL-im. (My mom does LYLE-im, which drives me batty. But at least she doesn't do Lilims.) SHED-im, SHED-ite IMP-you-dite BLAN-deen DA-vid DOM-ih-nik/DOM-in-EEK EE-lye GAY-bri-el JAN-us JEEN (should probably be ZHAN or however the French is, but we mangle!) JOR-di LOR-ance MARK MY-kel no-VAL-iss (I hear she's no-VAL-ee elsewhere.) EVE/EVEs/yEVE. AHN-dray-AHL-fuss/AHN-dray-AL-fuss as-MOH-dee-us BAHL/BA-AHL (Maya does BAYL) BELL-eth BELL-ee-ahl huh-GEN-tee KOH-ball KROH-nohs (or kroh-nohs) MAL-fahs/MAL-fuhs NIB-uhs sah-MEEN-gah VAL-ee-for VAP-u-lah LIL-ith (SJ pronounces her name this way too!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:11:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> The Sound of One Hand Falling (Re: Evaporating Malakim) At 10:08 AM -0700 1/2/99, Jason Corley wrote: >> What's the effect >> on the Symphony and on other Malakim? > >You can hear it just like Falling. HUH??? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:42:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might At 4:23 PM -0500 1/2/99, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >>At 10:03 PM -0500 1/1/99, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >>>Walter Milliken wrote: >> >>>>Note that this is only proto-canon, and may change, or may never really >>>>make it into the system. >>Lilith is, as usual, a special case. I have generally regarded that >>trick of hers as something like a modified Geas. But yes, I took that >>into account when I was coming up with that notion that dissonance >>conditions and Hearts are connected. > >So no other Prince can do this? I would think that she's the Geas-mistress. Besides, why would they want to? The other option, you see, is to say that *no one* can be a Servitor of Freedom, which doesn't entirely work out either. (And if Dissonance isn't in the Heart, then you *cannot* have Renegade Gamesters who aren't puddles of Discord in about three days flat, and *that's* kind of wonky right there...) >I think it makes more sense to let every Prince have the ability to >do this, but mostly they refrain due to the obvious bad political >side-effects. Run it the same as the way that a character can have >Choir/Band attunements from multiple superiors, but usually don't >for political reasons. That might also work, in the Geas/dissonace format. Not sure. Gotta think. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:42:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> List of stuff At 9:18 PM -0800 1/1/99, Greg Jensen wrote: >I would like to ask if anyone on the list has a comprehensive list of all >the various bands, choirs, archangels, and demon princes that have appeared >in various IN products. I'm also interested in hearing about other >people's new creations online. The other place to find comprehensive lists would be the INcyclopedia, which can be located via the Resources link from www.sjgames.com/in-nomine . - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:19:25 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Accept Credit Cards!!! We already know it's spam. Please don't reply to spam unless it's *very* witty. It's only *RESPAMMING* the list. And if you *do* reply to it in an attempt to be witty, don't quote the *WHOLE BLESSED THING*. The spammer isn't reading the list. If you want to nail him to a wall, look up systemwave.com and complain to them and their upstreams, as I've been doing. - --Djinn Princess Beth, in a REALLY BAD MOOD. At 5:03 PM -0500 1/2/99, BillionSix@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 1/2/99 5:16:41 AM Central Standard Time, JToro92692@aol.com >writes: > >> ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS!! >> PRE-APPROVED APPLICATION >> Good Credit/Bad Credit/No Credit >> >> NO APPLICATION FEES >> For a Limited Time Only! >> Regular $195.00 Application Fee Waived For This Offer! >> >> Increase Your Business Up To 100% Or More, >> Just By Accepting Credit Cards! >> This Means More Customers...More Orders...More Money! >> We Specialize in Home Based Businesses - Apply Today! >> Accept Visa, Mastercard, American Express, and Discover! >> >> Apply Now by visiting our Online Application Site! >> We are overwhelmed with Responses... >> >> http://www.systemwave.com/merchant/ >> >> >> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >> You have been carefully selected to receive the following as >> a person obviously interested in this subject based upon your >> previous internet postings, or visits to one of our affiliate >> web sites. If you have received this message in error, please >> email system@systemwave.com with the word unsubscribe in >> the subject. >> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >> >> >I'm convinced! This is the best offer that could possibly be! This obviously >comes from Marc and not Nybbas! >Yeah right! >Die, Spammer, Die! > >Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:21:35 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Off-Topic - Does anyone actually benefit from the spam? At 2:24 PM -0800 1/2/99, Greg Jensen wrote: >At 12:10 PM 1/2/99 -0700, you wrote: >> Completely off topic, I am just wondering if anyone who reads this >>mailing list's content has ever found a product or service useful and/or >>enjoyable as a result of someone spamming the list about said product or >>service or are they wasting bandwidth spamming a blind eye? Or does Nybbas >>merely ask for the spam to be distributed regardless of outcome? > >Good question. I have never once responded to a spam ad, nor have I bought >anything from telephone solicitors. So why do they keep trying? Because it costs them almost nothing to send out one million spams and if even 1% of the recipients are idiots and reply, it justifies their cost. Spammers do it because some people are stupid. Including many spammers. Now, unless this topic can be made *ON* topic in a spectacularly witty way, take it off-list. (Yes, I'm still in a very bad mood.) - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 01:30:32 +0200 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> Pronunciation Guide At 00:38 03/01/99 , you wrote: >My pronunciations... (Canon? Ha!) (We gotta collect these and put >them somewhere.) Some Hebrew pronounciations... >CHAIR-uhb, CHAIR-uh-bim K-ruh-vim, K-ruhv (strangely enough, it also means "cabbage", in modern Hebrew.) >of-FAN-ite, of-FAN-im O-fan (correct Hebrew form), o-Fan-im >el-OH-ite, el-OH-im E-lo-ah (Hebrew form), E-lo-him. >MAL-ah-kite, MAL-ah-kim Mal-ach\akh (correct Hebrew form), Mal-ach\kh-im >CAL-ah-bite, CAL-ah-bim. (That's "bite" as in "bite me.") Kel-ev (which means "Dog), K-lav-im ("dogs") >HAB-ah-lah, HAB-ah-lite Ch\kh-ABB-alah (sing.), Malachei Ch\kh-ABB-alah (plural Hebrew form). >LIL-im. (My mom does LYLE-im, which drives me batty. But at least > she doesn't do Lilims.) Bnei Lil-im (male Lilim), Bnot Lilim (female Lilim). >SHED-im, SHED-ite Shed (sing.), Shed-im (plural). >GAY-bri-el Gav-ri-el. >MY-kel Mee-Kah-el ("who is like God") >no-VAL-iss (I hear she's no-VAL-ee elsewhere.) No-Value? :-) >as-MOH-dee-us Ash-me-Dai. >BAHL/BA-AHL (Maya does BAYL) Ba'Al. >LIL-ith (SJ pronounces her name this way too!) Lil-Ith (empesis on second vowel). Yours, Yossi (who's considering asking for license to translate In Nomine to Hebrew) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 01:36:03 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Faith Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > [Eslin wrote:] > >> BTW are there any persuasion type skills which actually relates to a > >> persons ability to persuade someone of an idea in the long term, > >> since Fast talk described as getting someone to " "bend the rules > >> just this once" " > > There's 'Lying'. > > No (I had seen it, I intended the charcacter to persuade through > reason, but without lying), I meant skills people had made up > themsleves or they'd seen on the newt somewhere. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a newt stand still long enough for people to be able to write roleplaying rules on its side. Maybe you have different kinds of newts in, er, whichever other part of the UK you live in. But anyway: possibly. Does it matter? I mean, if you're talking about non Canon skills, does it matter if they've been done before? You want a skill that isn't in the rulebook, you roll your own. Base it on whichever skill seems reasonable; if your players object, they're either right (in which case they're good beta-testers) or they're wrong (because you're the GM, and they're not). But you don't have to ask the list about every single detail. Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ Chances are if your parents didn't have children then you won't either. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 00:59:36 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Force levels (was: Re: IN> the bile guy!) Sorry for bringing up this thread again; I was going to take it to private email, but then realised some of what I was saying might have some vague interest to others. I may, of course, be totally wrong. Martin Arnold wrote: > NOW...i'm still curious about force-levels for ranked characters (which > does inlcude seneschals, but maybe i'll put that to one side since the > rankings could cover that as well). Im anxious to get an asnwer on this > because i have no given yardstick to do it myself! THAT's the problem; > i have no difficulty cobbling togtether rules for my own campaigns (hey > well all do that), but how do i work out these levels for NPC's in my > campaign. DOes anybody have any info? Use common sense - you already know that to be a Word-bound Seneschal you need at least a dozen Forces (p. 59, box on Tethers, also in the index under Dictinctions), and you nearly almost always have a Distinction at this point, which implies that Distinctions start get handed out a fair bit before that level. After all, these things don't happen according to a strict pattern - one angel may be particularly favoured or lucky, another may be overlooked for some reason (and we know that Eli's servitors, in canon, find it hard to get distincted). So we know that Seneschals start after 12, and first-level Distinctions happen at about 10-11. The next question is where the level-three distinctions (Baron or Master) occur. Bearing in mind that the difference in power between celestials of equivalent rank will still exist (in fact, may be larger than at lower levels), this can't be right at the top level, i.e. 18 Forces; if nothing else, this is probably where the really top-level distinctions occur. So 15ish sounds about right. Of course, you could just look through canon and look at the Force levels for all the NPCs mentioned, but that would ruin the fun. Once you account for oddities like the Old Guy, my suggested Force-levels match up pretty closely with canon, as far as I can tell. Whether this is a sign of design, rationality and consistency among SJG writers or rationalisation on my part is an exercise left to the reader. Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ Chances are if your parents didn't have children then you won't either. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 20:59:40 -0500 From: "Sheep Boy" Subject: RE: IN> Pronunciation Guide Elizabeth McCoy hath written > At 12:12 PM -0700 1/2/99, Michael Tarr wrote: > > Does anyone have a pronunciation guide for IN? > > No official one yet. The fact that this is not canonical is the only reason I would ever answer something after Ms. McCoy has spoken :), but here's my and my group's take on pronunciation. Remember, purely IMC. In general, we stress the -im suffix, and drop it for the singular version. (I also realize that this is overtly non-canonical for some choirs, notably the Ofanim, Malakim, etc.), i.e.: SEH-ruhf (short i, like "in"), seh-ruhf-EEM CHE-ruhb, che-ruhb-EEM OH-fahn, oh-fahn-EEM EH-loh, eh-loh-EEM (some of us try that Hebrew glottal noise at the end of "Eloh," like "Channukah." Some of us don't succeed. :) MAH-lahk, mah-lahk-EEM KI-ree-oh-TAH-tay, KI-ree-oh-TAH-tayz mer-CYOOR-ee-en, mer-CYOOR-ee-enz BAHL-sehr-ahf GIN KAH-lahb, kah-lah-BEEM hah-BAHL, HAH-bahl-ah (Again, attempted glottals, but at the beginning.) LIL-im (yeah, no EEM for us here) SHEHD, shehd-EEM IMP-yoo-dait, IMP-yoo-daits BLAHN-deen DAY-vid DOM-in-ik/dom-in-EEK EE-lai GAY-bree-uhl YAHN-uhs JEEN (we mangle, too :) JOHR-dee LOHR-uhntz MAHRK noh-VAHL-is EEV ahn-dray-AHL-fuhs ahz-moh-DAY-uhs BAHL BEHL-eth beh-LAI-ahl hah-GEHN-tee koh-BAHL KROH-nohs MAL-fuhs NIB-is (along with various derogatory nicknames) sah-MING-guh VAL-eh-fohr VAP-yoo-luh LIL-ith As I said, just my group's perspective. Enjoy. :) - Stavro +-stavro@interport.net------------------------ICQ#18493910-+ | "The jackal's wishing well forgotten/Dark cloud sunrise" | | The view of Someone Somewhere else is/Burnt in my eyes | | - KMFDM, "Torture" | +----------http://www.users.interport.net/~stavro/---------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 00:28:13 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Liber Canticorum - My pretty new toy! > I just got the Liber Canticorum, and I thought I'd write up my own little >review of it. > It's cool! (Yeah, I know, I'm not much of a reviewer, am I?) Hear Here!! This book is excellent; I love it to pieces. (And may very well with SJG's binding.) I especially enjoy the first 26 pages, particularly the explanation of the 'metaphysical' basis for Songs, how they work on a fundamental level. (tapestry! :) The Themes are cool and I love both the Sotto Voce and Virtuoso rules and plan on making many variations for my PCs to encounter. > For the benefit of the bile guy, I will point out that the majority of the >book is directly useful information. Songs and rules for songs that can be >incorporated into a campaign. I also liked the secret, lost and restricted >songs, along with the idea that certain choirs, bands, and Words get bonuses >at certain songs. The Choir/Band and Word bonuses are good, nice touch. I definitely plan to use them. I've often wondered what exactly the greatness/power of a Word-bound celestial actually was other than more Rites (and Essence). With the Word bonuses, this defintely expands the direct power of Word bound celestials. > I also liked Andre's Songs of Enslavement, which allow me to play out all the >sick, misogynistic fantasies I carried over from my adolescence. :p What page is that on? My faves au moment are the Songs of Self and Faith. :) > All in all, one of the better buys that have come out for In Nomine of late. Totally. :) Great book, my players are going to love it. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 02:12:38 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Off-Topic - Does anyone actually benefit from the spam? >Good question. I have never once responded to a spam ad, nor have I bought >anything from telephone solicitors. So why do they keep trying? I once >had a telephone solicitor get rude after I politely said I'm not >interested, and demanded to know why. I said "so I won't encourage more >jerks like you to call me up during dinner time." I know a DP has to be >behind this, I just want to know if it's Mammon, Nybbas, or Kobal. Dude, it's Haagenti. Telephone solicitors are just *gluttons* for punishment. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 02:54:57 -0500 (EST) From: Eslin Subject: Re: IN> Baphomet und Templars + INRI On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, Peter Wiggin wrote: > Is this a possible soluction in an IN setting? Anything is a possible solution in an IN setting. (Aren't I a cheat at answering?) As long as it's consistent with your take on the game setting, or it (or your take on the game setting) can be shoehorned in somehow even remotely reasonably, it's possible. :) One of the advantages of IN (in my opinion; your mileage may vary; those who prefer things settled, please, only throw tomatoes, not bricks :) ) is that there are simply hordes and hordes of bits of Canon Doubt and Uncertainty that can be tweaked... and large pieces of Canon Certainty that do not have to be certain in your game at all. Take a look at Redneck Gaijin's Dark Victory setting, for an extreme example. Why am I not answering this with anything remotely related to Baphomet, Templars, or Sufis? Well... because I don't /know/ anything about them, really. I know more about Rachiel (Ofanite of Creation? Dreams? One with the attunement of the other? Do I think too much about this?) than I do about Baphomet, and everything I know about the Templars I learned from Emily Dresner. I'm half-curious how many other people on this list are in similar straits with regard to the Templars... -- eslin@buffnet.net / chephirah@fiat.justitia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 02:28:01 -0600 From: Eeyore Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Liber Canticorum - My pretty new toy! Perry Lloyd wrote: > This book is excellent; I love it to pieces. (And may very well with > SJG's binding.) I especially enjoy the first 26 pages, particularly the > explanation of the 'metaphysical' basis for Songs, how they work on a > fundamental level. (tapestry! :) The Themes are cool and I love both > the Sotto Voce and Virtuoso rules and plan on making many variations for > my PCs to encounter. Since we've had someone on the list recently who decided to discuss the negatives of David Edelstien as a member of the IN community, I think it's appropriate to note that many of the nice things about Liber Canticorum are attributable to his approach. (Take note Mr, Edelstein: I am somewhat inebriated thanks to an in town visit from an old friend and may never express this as explicitly again.) He has a clear view of where he wants to go and is rather uncompromisng in his approach to those who disagree with him; having once been on the receiving end of his barbs, I can attest to this. However, it does mean that any product that he is in charge of will have a consistency (right or wrong) that is often lacking from other IN material. If I were the resident Djinn Princess (which, fortunately, I'm not) I would never let Mr. Edelstein be in charge of anything unsupervised. I probably wouldn't make him the editor of any book like those of the Revelations Cycle; there are too many opportunities for him to make explicit things that are best left Canon Doubt and Uncertainty. This is the same as saying that he's guaranteed to piss people off. Many of the same tendencies are why he's a very good person to put in charge of a nuts and bolts project like Liber Canticorum (and any similar books that follow). Under his guidance, a _rules_ book will have a focus and an underlying philosophy. This was something that seemed to be lacking in the original concept. Derek Pearcy had an idea for the game, but did not have a well developed sense of how to get there from here. Even if I disagree with Mr. Edelstein's specific approach at times, it is best to have any concrete idea than none at all. Yes, he goes overboard in his reactions at times (I try to recognize this, since I'm not only willing to put up with this, but I tend to the same extreme myself). But, while I'm mostly guessing without any inside knowledge of the workings of the line, I suspect that the published material would be less valuable without him. Still, I'm sometimes surprised thathe hasn't been asked to put a "The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of SJG" line in the signature portion of his posts. But credit where credit is due. And more write-ups like those of Baal would certainlybe appreciated. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 21:38:09 +0000 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Accept Credit Cards!!! Elizabeth wrote: > in an attempt to be witty, don't quote the *WHOLE BLESSED THING*. At the risk of seriously annoying Beth, I had to laugh after I read this and realised she then quoted the "Whole Blessed Thing." Don't worry, I won't as well. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 21:41:00 +0000 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might Neel wrote: > I'll beat on it right now: Free Lilim have Lilith's dissonance conditions, > and don't have Hearts. Further, in the IPG it notes that Lilith will give > any of the Lilim -- even bound ones -- access to her Rites if they accept > her dissonance condition. It says that Lilith offers her Rites to all Lilim who accept her dissonance conditions. *Most* Free Lilim accept this happily, but there must be some out there with no Rites (hard to generate Essence) but also no Dissonance conditions (the ultimate freedom). Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:17:37 +0100 From: "Peter Wiggin" Subject: R: IN> Baphomet und Templars Karen J Davies wrote: >This is really weird. Your campaign has many similariites to my own, enough to make me suspect diabolic influence.... ...it's possible... >This was one of the charges made against them by Philip the Fair to make them all seem like witches and devil worshippers. Still useable if you want. Maybe Marc gave it to them to help create their great wealth, though it would have had to be under strict control. > Truely good idea, thanks. >>and, finally, what about sufi religion and Abufihamet? > >This is my weak suit I am afraid. As an amatiar Crusadeologist i have read much historical work but not so much on the purely spiritual side. I would like to hear what you know.... I have done in my precedent mail, but if you want to know more about , better to go to: 1) http://www.intranet.ca/~magicworks/knights/name.html about "abufihamet" theory 2) if you want to learn much more about mystical side of Sufi and Islam in general mail me and i will send to you some html files i have downloaded and whose http address i do not remember :) >If anyone was interested, I could post my IN stats for Baphomet to the list, in both his Master and Remnant states. My campaign slips back and forward between the two time frames. > I'm interested, though i am not probably follow the Baphomalakim idea (because i'd like a lesser "celestial" explanation for secrets), it would be useful to look at that :)) [Peter] "Cu" [Wiggin], Archangel of the Celts PS finally a good site on mysteries about templars: http://home.fireplug.net/~rshand/streams/masons/mysteries.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 10:54:39 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Pronunciation Guide On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > My pronunciations... (Canon? Ha!) (We gotta collect these and put > them somewhere.) Well, far be it from me to argue with the line editor. Nevertheless, much as I agree with most of your pronunciations, there are a few I do differently. > CHAIR-uhb, CHAIR-uh-bim Kerr-uhb, KERR-uh-bim > MAL-ah-kite, MAL-ah-kim MALAK-ite, MALAK-im > BLAN-deen BLAN-dine > EVE/EVEs/yEVE. I-ves > AHN-dray-AHL-fuss/AHN-dray-AL-fuss AN-dray-AL-fuss > BELL-ee-ahl bell-i-el > huh-GEN-tee HAG-gen-TI > VAL-ee-for VAL-for NOt a lot of differences, mostly subtle ones. For the record, I think Maya's pronunciation of Baal as "Bayl" is historically accurate. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:36:09 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Off-Topic - Does anyone actually benefit from the spam? Greg Jensen wrote on 2 January >At 12:10 PM 1/2/99 -0700, you wrote: >> Completely off topic, I am just wondering if anyone who reads this >>mailing list's content has ever found a product or service useful and/or >>enjoyable as a result of someone spamming the list about said product or >>service or are they wasting bandwidth spamming a blind eye? Or does Nybbas >>merely ask for the spam to be distributed regardless of outcome? > >Good question. I have never once responded to a spam ad, nor have I bought >anything from telephone solicitors. So why do they keep trying? I once >had a telephone solicitor get rude after I politely said I'm not >interested, and demanded to know why. I said "so I won't encourage more >jerks like you to call me up during dinner time." I know a DP has to be >behind this, I just want to know if it's Mammon, Nybbas, or Kobal. No it's just me slaving away as usual not leading individual mortals to their Fate, but pissing a whole bunch of people off who will in turn piss more people off who will repeat this cycle until everyone in the world is pissed off. These days you got to think of the Big Picture. Waaaaa Ha Ha Ha Ha. Crowley, Balseraph of Technology (Ramesh) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 17:44:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> Word Conflict On Fri, 1 Jan 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > I dunno... Do you *really* want some loony Calabite/Balseraph > running around Hell with sharp pointy objects, followed shortly by > a deranged Malakite Archangel with sharp pointy objects? It'd be a good spectator sport though :) (Odd - I don't normally like Nybas - all that spam must be affecting my mind after all :) ) Still Laurence wandering around Hell is a bit unlikely - Gabriel manages to restrain herself from causing Armegeddon despite the strain after all. > > (And your mother told *you* never to run with scissors, right...?) > *grin* > I suspect that for various and sundry reasons, it's better to oppose > Words with a Word that is opposite or skew. Your Prince is saner, > and more likely to be able to *hurt* his (or her) opposite number. > Yes - although of course there is also the matter of the (proably CDaU) Archangel of Death.... > (And yes, I think that Belial is at least *distracted* by sharing > a Word, and it is certain that though he hates Gabriel -- she has > her own Ofanite of Fire attunement. How the heck does Belial hurt > her with the very element they can both twist to their own whim?) > Which is why Gabriel could beat him - she just isn't willing to give him the satisfaction of her being taken down afterwards whilst weakened IMHO. She could kill him with heat or radiation :) Steam sounds like fun too :) More seriously though (and less of me being a blatent Gabriel fangirl) I just Belial as somewhat oblivious to the dispute - yeah he would go for Her but in general he just doesn't seem to have the same level os passion as Gabriel. > (And Gabriel *was* functional up until about Islam...) > Dominic did handle that whole matter rather badly... > ...So you get the Prince of the Sword and the Archangel of the Sword > hacking at each other in stalemate every time they meet until Michael > shows up to lend an axe... > Hmm again that doesn't really happen with Gabriel and Belial - they don't seem to meet (quite likely that is arranged by Servitors plus other Superiors who don't want Armeggedon before they are ready admittedly) > Also, unless Lucifer handed out the Word and Princedom *very* quickly, > the Archangel has an advantage in experience. The new Prince would > be green around the edges, and the Archangel would be scooping up > all the Neat Tricks of the Word. Or something like that. > Which is why my suggestion had the new Prince being kept out the way in the Lower Hells where he did his damage simply by being a painful noise in the symphony - but the problem with that idea is that it's possible the new Prince wouldn't have enough symphonic presence in that set-up. > Also, I can just see the Seraphim Council smirking and saying, "C'mon, > we dare ya. We double-dog dare ya. Make a Prince of Children. Make > a Prince of Protection. Make a Prince of Revelations. Go ahead. Make > Princes of selfless Words." Children - reminds me of that Demon I had going for that word -"There aren't enough Children in Hell - that looks like a nice opportunity". Must write her up for the list. Protection doesn't have to be pleasant either - I've seen a number of Horror novels with a basic premise of someone going completely evil due to having overprotective parents - there was more to it than that naturally - but it was certainly a major factor. That was how I thought Djinn would be a first - "Don't worry I'll take care of everything for you" - and then I saw the APG had that as a Discord for Cherubim. The actual write up for Djinn I now prefer - but I could still see (Over)Protection as a Demonic Word. But it would have to be a relatively trusted Demon I admit. > > Okay, so maybe a demon could pervert the Word -- it's still going to > be an uphill struggle... > > >But I can see Lucifer appointing someone to those Words, making them a > >Demon Prince in name only > > I think that making someone a Prince is a sufficient expenditure of > power that the Prince would need to be *useful* for more than giving > an Archangel a dull nagging headache. Even for Lucifer. Yes. That was one the major objections to the idea - I knew it had a flaw - - I was just trying to work out if it was at all possible for a plot seed I was working on. > > (Why, yes, I *am* in a strange mood.) Wow, you mean you're sometimes /not/ in a strange mood :) I'm permanently in one :) Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1076 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.