From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Oct 6 16:19:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24116 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:19:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA02235 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:14:43 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:14:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199910062114.QAA02235@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1356 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, October 6 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1356 In this digest: Re: IN> Questions about the Marketplace. re: IN> WoD/IN crossovers Re: IN> IN Fiction IN> Re: Dark Victory -- Janus Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Re: IN> Re: Dark Victory -- Janus Re: IN> Sticky situation Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> URIEL -- Archangel of Purity Re: IN> IN Fiction Re: IN> Dark Ages Jean Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death IN> Pure Fluff Re: IN> Pure Fluff Re: IN> Pure Fluff Re: IN> Pure Fluff Re: IN> Sticky situation Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Re: IN> Demonic Words IN> Timeline Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Re: IN> Demonic Words Re: IN> Timeline Re: IN> IN Fiction Re: IN> Pure Fluff Re: IN> Another slew of questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:26:06 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Questions about the Marketplace. John Smith wrote: > >We ran into a couple of problems, though: > >1) How much do things cost? > > Resources probably buy other Resources pretty evenly. (A level 2 Vessel > for a Level 3 Talisman, etc.) > > But what if you want to pay in Essence, or favors? > >2) How hard is it to find any specific item? > > Does it take hours? Minutes? Days? Should we just send an Ofanite? Here's a couple of ideas. - -*-*-*- A single damned soul produces 1 Essence per day, or 365 Essence/year. At a 10% annual discount rate, this means that a damned soul could be purchased for around 3650 Essence. A level-1 reliquary that regenerates 1 point a day is of similar value, plus a bit for portability -- call it 4000 thousand Essence. It costs 3 character points to buy as a resource, so as a rule of thumb an artifact worth 1 cp should cost around 1300 Essence. This meant that it was much easier to rent an artifact or take out a loan than to purchase it outright. (These deals were secured with the help of Lilim or Djinn if the parties had dealt before, or with Calabim and dire threats if they hadn't.) The Celestial Song of Tongues was the tool typically used to transfer Essence (and the celestial monopoly on its use was one of the major tools demons used to lock humans out of the market). A typical deal might be "I lend you the Unholy Avenger for a week, and you send me 1 Essence each day for the following 3 weeks," plus elaborations for late payment and collateral against attempts to default and so on. - -*-*-*- There were also fences and loan sharks, and big Calabim named Guido and the whole panolopy of mobster capitalism, but that's icing on the cake. Heaven has a lot of advantages in this regard; for one thing, the principals can all trust each other to play fair. This means that lending and borrowing can happen with a much lower risk premium than the infernals can manage -- in practice this means that you can go to an angel of Jean or Eli, and borrow a magic doodad with little more than an explanation of why it's needed. However, it's considered extremely bad form to ask for an artifact when you don't actually need it. Every Heavenly artifact is a hand- crafted work of art, and even very pragmatic archangels like Michael and Janus look dimly upon endangering a thing of beauty for simple convenience. Heaven is also big on mutual assistance: frequently the lender will ask the borrower for some aid in return. In order to facilitate this system, Marc in particular has devised a system he calls "paying forward": the idea is that when an angel or saint accepts a gift, they can register their willingness to help others as a token of gratitude. Heavenly accountants will then figure out the best match for the particular supplicant's talents, and then let them know what it is. This has the benefit that an artificer or other person with special talents can use it without having to go through the tedium of tracking who owes what sort of favor, and to increase the size of the pool of people who can help and need help in order to get better matches. Besides Marc himself, David and Jean are the archangels most active in promoting the use of this system. (It has the out-of-game advantage that you the GM can use it as a source of adventure hooks.) Heaven's big disadvantage vis-a-vis Hell is that there are a lot of things the just won't do. A demon has no problem with the idea of binding a soul into a ring to create a handy reliquary, for example. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:29:03 -0700 From: EDG Subject: re: IN> WoD/IN crossovers At 03:16 AM 10/3/99 -0700, you wrote: > Crap, that means that I'll get bounced too, and you remember what happened *last* time Tigger was . . . woah, wrong genre there for a moment. >I'd LOVE to see a copy, too. :) Well, you /could/ just ask me. As I was about to post, I've got a WOD/IN crossover written up, and it's been kinda revamped (pardon) since Kat last saw it. :) Let me know if you want it, and I'll see about sending it over. (Find, copy to disk, see if Eudora will let me attach files...) As far as it goes, the thread kind of got voluntarily kicked off the INlist last time it went around. Maybe that's not such a bad idea this time? - -EDG Back on the list! The website should be revamped Real Soon Now, folks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:44:46 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> IN Fiction At 12:57 PM 10/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >Unfortuanattly a voice in the back of my mind says that the lisence from = >Croc prohibits this stuff, but surely that's just Blasphertic influece, = >from somewhere. Sadly, this is indeed the case - at least, as far as I've been told. :) I'd love to see IN fiction - I have an IN screenplay half-written that'll probably never see the light of day - but unless that license gets rewritten, it's not to be. Sorry, EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:43:24 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: IN> Re: Dark Victory -- Janus At 02:40 PM 10/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi. I just read your Dark Victory NetBook on INC and would first like to congradualte you on a job well done. Anyway, I was wondering if you had plans to write-up Janus in the Dark Victory campain world, cause I've got a few ideas... If you care to hear them I'd be happy to send 'm to ya. >Trent Offanite of Doubt Janus and Valefor, in DV, never showed up on the day of Armageddeon. Those Servitors of Theft and the Wind who didn't jump right out into the fight on their own (and who didn't pledge new loyalties immediately thereafter) are now close to the top of Hell's hunt-down-and-destroy list, and those surviving angels not yet aligned with the New Heaven group will probably do likewise if they think they can survive. Servitors of Theft and the Wind cannot summon their Servitors. However, all attunements, dissonance, and rites are still in effect. Redneck Kris Overstreet, too many websites.... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Personal homepage http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - Business webpage http://www.antarctic-press.com/ - Someone else's page ... not enough time ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:57:29 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) At 12:20 PM -0700 10/5/99, Perry Lloyd wrote: >On the three realms: >>I see them as three dimensions needed for true "sentience." The >>Celestial is the Soul, the Will. The Ethereal is the Mind, the >>Memory. The Corporeal is the Substance. The Depth. The lack of any >>one Realm of Forces leads to a Remnant of some kind or other -- a >>being utterly not "right" with the Symphony. A Celestial in Heaven >>needs Corporeal Forces or they're ephemeral, without real substance. >>This is true metaphorically as well as physically -- a Seraph without >>Corporeal Forces would be utterly focused on the Abstract Truth, >>unable to relate it to his surroundings > > > >>Even the addition of new Corporeal Forces leaves a person with a >>substantially different impression of their surroundings than they >>might have. > >How so? Perception is allocated to the *Celestial* sphere of >forces, as is movement in the Celestial plane (movement being >interaction with surroundings). Will *replaces* strength on the >Celestial plane just as Perception *replaces* Agility. > >There is NOTHING Corporeal in the Celestial plane. No bodies, >nothing physical, only souls and intelligences. > >How am I wrong? You're not. It's not perception of the Celestial Realm I'm referring to, it's an awareness of one's *own* physicality in that Realm. What I'm postulating is a Celestial with no Corporeal Forces can see everything around them, but can't really see any connection between themselves and those things. The environment is there, and they have a mind, but there's no real link between them. This presents an image of lack of coherence and substance for the sundered Angel. They can *perceive* but they don't *relate.* New Corporeal Forces leave the restored Celestial with a far different impression of himself and his relationship to the world, much as new Celestial Forces (a new "soul") leaves a Corporeally-bound Remnant a different being, quantitatively, than who he was before. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 11:29:39 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dark Victory -- Janus At 10:43 AM 10/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >At 02:40 PM 10/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >Servitors of Theft and the Wind cannot summon their Servitors. I meant Superiors. Redneck > > Kris Overstreet, too many websites.... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Personal homepage http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - Business webpage http://www.antarctic-press.com/ - Someone else's page ... not enough time ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 16:08:30 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Sticky situation At 12:46 AM 10/6/99 -0700, you wrote: > Heh, that's what Servants are for. Have one of David's holy skinheads go >smack that demon up a little and it's on. And -nothing- stops a Malakite of Any angel of Stone who tried that trick would get dissonance IMG. David's angels aren't allowed to start fights; "(being provoked into) attacking first generates dissonance". Telling someone else to attack is just as bad as throwing the punch yourself. - -EDG "I can't kill my friend. ... Kill my friend." -Cosmo, "Sneakers" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 08:31:06 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Terry Pratchett's Death was described as having altered form to > fit expectations, for a while, but gave up and settled on the > Grim Reaper. Bastard. See, I just finished playing Death in a stage production of MORT (one of the early Discworld novels), and I can't describe the joy I feel now at not having to spend an hour getting made for each show and trying to get all that crap off at the end of the night. And I had to shave my head and lose my goatee. AND my voice may never recover from my (quite good) attempts at SPEAKING IN CAPITALS (well, speaking in a very deep speudo-British accent). Now if only Death had settled into a more... sensible form. Like a tall chap in comfortable clothes, that spoke in normal tones. Much easier. Whoops! Off-topic! > There's an amusing scene in "Pyramids" where > Death comes for a pharaoh and gets asked, "If you're Death, why > don't you look like the the Grim Giant Scarab Beetle?" TRIED THAT, > GOT TIRED OF IT. "But- but- And you're suppose to have the Shepherd's > Crook of the Otherworld." ... ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE > BEETLE HERE? HOW WOULD IT CARRY IT? "Um..." - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Journalism is not a profession or a trade. It is a cheap catch-all for fuckoffs & misfits - a false doorway to the backside of life, a filthy piss-ridden little hole nailed off by the building inspector, but just deep enough for a wino to curl up from the sidewalk and masturbate like a chimp in a zoo-cage. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:39:44 PDT From: "Miles 2 Go" Subject: Re: IN> URIEL -- Archangel of Purity >From: David Edelstein >>>This attunement constantly refers to the Cherub's >attuned as a >'Target'. Unless you make a point clarifying that Purity's Cherubim >are under no compulsion to protect their attuned, they are still >single minded in their purpose like any Cherub, and that purpose will >be to protect whatever they are attuned to.<<< > >True. I'm not sure why I left that out -- probably because originally I > >had in mind something a little different for the Tsayadim in general. >(Remember, this is a fairly old writeup.) > >I'd add that Cherubim of Purity can *sever* an attunement at will, >without >a Will roll. That's not quite strong enough. It's Djinn-like behavior to use an attunement to lead yourself and/or others to your attuned with the knowledge they will do harm to your target. A cherub cares about its attuned and won't seek to harm it, even if it is impure. If a cherub is seeking its attuned in order to do it harm, then I'd give the cherub dissonance, even if he broke the attunement just prior to landing an actual physical blow. If Cherubim of Purity don't have to care for their attuned if they are impure, that should be explicitly stated. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:11:53 -0500 From: "Trent" Subject: Re: IN> IN Fiction > Sadly, this is indeed the case - at least, as far as I've been told. > :) I'd love to see IN fiction - I have an IN screenplay half-written > that'll probably never see the light of day - but unless that license gets > rewritten, it's not to be. Darn. I'm willing to bet the odds of the lisence being rewriten are in the range of slim to none as well right? Trent Offanite of Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:08:10 -0500 From: "Trent" Subject: Re: IN> Dark Ages Jean > So then...-what- was he (IYC) before humans started using electrical > devices? That's a very, VERY new development...like maybe a -century- old for > widespread use, if that. He's been an Archangel for a -long- time before that, > so what would you say he was doing for all those eons? > > - Abracax: Shedite of Riots He was firstly helping humanity get to the level of using electricty (you wouln't belive how many tree he zapped with lightning bolts befre the ancient humans caught on to fire) he did this by embodying the spark of inspiration (Eurikea! I've found it!) and he did do a few snits as a storm god type, and after Gabby left heaven he did a few freelance jobs smiteing the cruel (ever see The Bad Seed?). But after Ralph's death he became much more intrested in the mechanical and absorbed that half of Knowladge, so yeah his dudes ran around with clockwork in the rensissance, and steampuck stufff for the Victorian era, and he was extatic in the experimentlasts of the Enlightenment playing with electricity. All IMC of course. Trent Offanite of Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:05:13 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death At 8:31 AM +1000 10/6/99, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: >Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > > Terry Pratchett's Death was described as having altered form to > > fit expectations, for a while, but gave up and settled on the > > Grim Reaper. > > Bastard. > See, I just finished playing Death in a stage production of MORT (one >of the early Discworld novels), and I can't describe the joy I feel now at >not having to spend an hour getting made for each show and trying to get >all that crap off at the end of the night. And I had to shave my head and >lose my goatee. AND my voice may never recover from my (quite good) >attempts at SPEAKING IN CAPITALS (well, speaking in a very deep >speudo-British accent). > Now if only Death had settled into a more... sensible form. Like a >tall chap in comfortable clothes, that spoke in normal tones. Much >easier. > > Whoops! Off-topic! Nah, Kobal's Servitors are getting a kick out of this. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:46:28 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: IN> Pure Fluff Picture, A group of angels or and angel and his servents, arrives at a cabin. They come accross and ancient text, written in blood, bound in human skin. Accompaning it is a tape recording they play aformentioned recording, and all of sudden, the servents start turning into zombis. The angel a servent of War summons Big Mike. In lieu of the Holy Axe of Doom. The Archangel of War, sports a chainsaw. And a shotgun. And a vessel that vaugley resembles what most who don't get this will recognize as the theif from Xena. As Michael starts the saw he yells, "Hail to the King" That's right In Nomine: Evil Dead: The Ultimate Experience in Celsetial Horror. Bradley Paranial Mercurian Vassal of War, who knows what he's talking about. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:44:54 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Pure Fluff At 10:46 PM -0500 10/5/99, paranial@creighton.edu wrote: > > >In Nomine: Evil Dead: The Ultimate Experience in Celsetial Horror. "Archangel of War? Prideful protodemon? I'm the guy with the gun." - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:50:43 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Pure Fluff > Picture, A group of angels or and angel and his servents, arrives >at a cabin. > >They come accross and ancient text, written in blood, bound in human >skin. > >Accompaning it is a tape recording they play aformentioned recording, and >all of sudden, the servents start turning into zombis. > >The angel a servent of War summons Big Mike. > >In lieu of the Holy Axe of Doom. The Archangel of War, sports a >chainsaw. > >And a shotgun. > >And a vessel that vaugley resembles what most who don't get this will >recognize as the theif from Xena. > >As Michael starts the saw he yells, "Hail to the King" > >That's right > >In Nomine: Evil Dead: The Ultimate Experience in Celsetial Horror. Oh dear god, you are a mad man! Hmm, but In-Nomine fused with cheesy, for lack of a better word, horror flicks could be utterly insane. I'd see Kobal/Nybbass running the entire thing, filming the entire thing to send down to hell (I actually ran a one shot where the demon of Candid Cameras (Kobal) and the demon of Bad Romances (Nybbas) teamed up to make some people's life a living romantic 'comedy'). Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:03:26 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Pure Fluff the sad thing is as soon as I saw "head to a cabin" I knew where this was going... - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:51:47 -0700 (PDT) From: The Alien Subject: Re: IN> Sticky situation On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > I always ran it so that angels of Stone considered an attack on anyone > within their circle as an attack on themselves, to play up the community > building and mutual defense angle. Okay, clearly not canon, etc etc etc. But I really like this idea. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who thinks is especially good or bad. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:50:39 +0100 From: "Ray Jing Homo" Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) From: Perry Lloyd > > There is NOTHING Corporeal in the Celestial plane. No bodies, nothing > physical, only souls and intelligences. > > How am I wrong? > yes, but all descriptions of the ethereal and celestial planes describe them as physical places. weird, abstract, non-euclidean places, sure, but still somewhat like our world. i think that the corporeal plays a role in both the marches and heaven/hell, if only as a backdrop. just as in the corporeal realm there are touches of the celestial and ethereal liam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:55:02 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> Demonic Words On Tue, Oct 05, 1999 at 01:42:32PM -0400, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: This also explained > why demons of the Game get a free bonus essence; Asmodeus controlled > the allocation of damned souls and favored his own servitors. > IMC, one of the Game's major sources of essence is that it has managed to capture a significant number of "renegades" over the course of its existence and is using them as an essence source. (Obviously, in your scheme of things, this idea has grave metaphysical flaws.) They get killed whenever Asmodeus wants forces to trade with other Princes, since he doesn't want to use their Forces to make his own Servitors. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Thus the army is established by deceit, moves for advantage and changes through segmenting and reuniting. Thus its speed is like the wind, its slowness like the forest; its invasion and plundering like a fire; unmoving, it is like the mountains. It is as difficult to know as the darkness; in movement it is like thunder." Sun Tzu, The Art of War, Chapter 7. ------------------------------ Date: 06 Oct 99 09:35:48 -0500 From: erisraven@crosswinds.net Subject: IN> Timeline I'm trying to figure out what should be my next logical purchase. The thing I think I need most is a timeline of events. Does the Gamemaster's Guide include a timeline? I'm sad and broke until after the turn of the year, so I have to be careful and purchase the ones I need the most. I'm fighting the urge to buy the Revelations series first: I'm deathly curious how The Final Trumpet would mesh with the WoD game I'm running. I've been building my campaign world to Apocalypse/Gehenna/TEOTWAWKI for the last 5 years. I hope my story holds up to the light of day; my players are frothing by this point. The excerpt on the web seems to fit well. I'll have to read them to be sure. Eris Corax of Chaos Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 06:43:40 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) > > There is NOTHING Corporeal in the Celestial plane. No bodies, nothing > > physical, only souls and intelligences. > > > > How am I wrong? > > > >yes, but all descriptions of the ethereal and celestial planes describe >them >as physical places. weird, abstract, non-euclidean places, sure, but still >somewhat like our world. i think that the corporeal plays a role in both >the >marches and heaven/hell, if only as a backdrop. But isn't this merely because the war centers around the Corporeal Plane and therefore Heaven and Hell have modeled themselves after what the human psyche is capable of understanding? On the other hand, according to thought along evolutionary lines, the human psyche developed in relation to the Corporeal World. Therefore, if heaven and hell are formed to reflect the human psyche, they would be made to "feel" corporeal without actually being corporeal. But, I see nothing to prevent a celestial being with only Ethereal and Celestial forces from functioning perfectly well in the Ethereal or Celestial plane (other than having a low ceiling on his/her forces). Strength is a measure of physical prowess and help determine how much damage your body can endure (only applies to one realm, as Intelligence replaces Strengh in this regard in the Ethereal realm, as Will replaces Strength in this regard in the Celestial realm). Agility is a measure of character's relative speeds as well as how dextrous and graceful they are (which is not quite correct, as Perception replaces Agility in this regard on the Celestial plane, and Precision replaces Agility in this regard - combat rules as evidence of this, especially in dexterity - on the Ethereal plane). My feeling is that it is only on the Corporeal plane that all three realms are truely represented. Perhaps this means that Earth is MORE than Heaven? God was made into earth and from that earth He fashioned humankind. This would help to justify the value that humans have within the Symphony, as well as *why* humans are able to shape/direct the Symphony while Celestials and Ethereals cannot - because it is humans who are "native" to ALL three realms. just as in the corporeal >realm there are touches of the celestial and ethereal I would go further and say that the Ethereal and Celestial realms are FULLY present on the Corporeal Plane. What good is a warrior if he has no Will to persevere? What good is a wise woman if she has no Pereption? What good is a scientist without Intelligence? How can one be a doctor without Precision? And, man, it must be hard to pull off Acrobatics/Swimming/Large Weapon/Running in the Ethereal or Celestial plane without Corporeal Forces. Of course it doesn't work that way! Hrm.... - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Something that looks like Godzilla wearing a giant octopus hat won't be hard to find." - Peter Venkman on Cthulu The Real Ghostbusters ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:24:34 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) At 6:43 AM -0700 10/6/99, Perry Lloyd wrote: > >But, I see nothing to prevent a celestial being with only Ethereal >and Celestial forces from functioning perfectly well in the Ethereal >or Celestial plane (other than having a low ceiling on his/her >forces). > >Strength is a measure of physical prowess and help determine how >much damage your body can endure (only applies to one realm, as >Intelligence replaces Strengh in this regard in the Ethereal realm, >as Will replaces Strength in this regard in the Celestial realm). > >Agility is a measure of character's relative speeds as well as how >dextrous and graceful they are (which is not quite correct, as >Perception replaces Agility in this regard on the Celestial plane, >and Precision replaces Agility in this regard - combat rules as >evidence of this, especially in dexterity - on the Ethereal plane). > >My feeling is that it is only on the Corporeal plane that all three >realms are truely represented. Perhaps this means that Earth is >MORE than Heaven? God was made into earth and from that earth He >fashioned humankind. > >This would help to justify the value that humans have within the >Symphony, as well as *why* humans are able to shape/direct the >Symphony while Celestials and Ethereals cannot - because it is >humans who are "native" to ALL three realms. Let me make something perfectly clear -- rules wise, you're right. Everything I'm suggesting is that -- a suggestion. You see, I have a major problem with one third of a Celestial's being being divested from them and it being 'no big deal.' If there are Corporeal Forces at all, they must be one-third of the being of Celestial. If they can be snapped away and the only result is "well, I guess *you're* not going to Earth," then to me they're not really Forces -- not the way Celestial or Ethereal Forces are. They're advantages, as valuable as someone's Vessel, but no more valuable than someone's Vessel. If nine-tenths of the Host never leave Heaven, and nine-tenths of the hordes never make it out of Hell, why does anyone ever take a second Corporeal Force? Will, Intelligence, Precision and Perception become so much more important than simple, mundane strength and agility. And a huge bully on the Corporeal Realm becomes a total wuss anywhere else, and wouldn't ever have made it to the Corporeal Realm in the first place. In my vision of IN -- all the Forces that make up... well, *anyone* are important. They mirror a three dimensional universe, and God doesn't randomly put symmatries into place. Celestial Forces shape will, and how one perceives the Symphony and each of its melodic lines. Ethereal Forces shape thought, and how one understands the Symphony. Corporeal Forces shape form, and how one interacts with the Symphony. Being without anyone is having one of the valves on the trumpet go out. You can still toot out a song, but you lose a whole realm of potential music and capacity. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:43:12 +0100 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) > > > >This would help to justify the value that humans have within the > >Symphony, as well as *why* humans are able to shape/direct the > >Symphony while Celestials and Ethereals cannot - because it is > >humans who are "native" to ALL three realms. > > Let me make something perfectly clear -- rules wise, you're right. > Everything I'm suggesting is that -- a suggestion. > > > In my vision of IN -- all the Forces that make up... well, *anyone* > are important. They mirror a three dimensional universe, and God > doesn't randomly put symmatries into place. Celestial Forces shape > will, and how one perceives the Symphony and each of its melodic > lines. Ethereal Forces shape thought, and how one understands the > Symphony. Corporeal Forces shape form, and how one interacts with > the Symphony. Being without anyone is having one of the valves on > the trumpet go out. You can still toot out a song, but you lose a > whole realm of potential music and capacity. > -- > Eric Alfred Burns i couldn't agree more. while in rules/skills terms corporeal forces may seem less "important", in terms of the IN universe they are one of the three building blocks of the entire universe. you can't get much more important than that (except the whole thing as a whole ie god). i'd agree that there's something "special" about humanity, the interest of god in them makes that much obvious. but they are creatures of the corporeal plane that can travel to the other two. just as demon and angels are creratures of the celestial plane that can travel to the other two. justr as ethereal beings are... you get the picture. liam p.s. all this talk about forces has given me an idea for another crossover... IN/Zelda - help Archangel Link find all three forces.. ahem, pieces of the Triforce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:19:26 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Demonic Words In a message dated 10/5/99 5:47:34 PM, earlw@mc.com writes: >Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > >> Demons got Essence from torturing it out of the souls of the damned, >> [...] >> I did it this way because it gave a concrete motivation for utterly >> self-interested demons to engage in the temptation of humans. > >It's also very like the depiction of Hell in "The Screwtape Letters" >by C. S. Lewis. > >Earl > "And when you raise the glass to your lips, brim-full of horror and abject misery, then you will know the fullest joy of being a Tempter." "Screwtape Proposes a Toast," C. S. Lewis I like this one. Attainments and Distinctions need to be reasoned out, however.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:26:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Timeline Yes the GM Guide has a timeline in it. I know, because I'm one of the parties who wrangled over its design in playtest. It also has discussions on how Heaven interacts with various religions, and much else besides. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:00:21 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN Fiction At 21:11 -0400 10/5/99, Trent wrote: >> Sadly, this is indeed the case - at least, as far as I've been told. >> :) I'd love to see IN fiction - I have an IN screenplay half-written >> that'll probably never see the light of day - but unless that license gets >> rewritten, it's not to be. > >I'm willing to bet the odds of the lisence being rewriten are in the range >of slim to none as well right? I think the answer to that question falls under CDaU right now.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:11:00 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: Re: IN> Pure Fluff On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Tim Groth wrote: > Oh dear god, you are a mad man! Hmm, but In-Nomine fused with cheesy, for > lack of a better word, horror flicks could be utterly insane. I'd see > Kobal/Nybbass running the entire thing, filming the entire thing to send > down to hell (I actually ran a one shot where the demon of Candid Cameras > (Kobal) and the demon of Bad Romances (Nybbas) teamed up to make some > people's life a living romantic 'comedy'). > > Timothy, Angel of Rambling > Now, When Saminga finds out what happened to the Necromonicon, will he be pissed. Bradley Paranial Mercurian Vassal of War. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:19:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Another slew of questions At 12:09 PM +0100 10/5/99, Warsinger wrote: >On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Chris Bergstresser wrote: > >> 1) How do Eli's rites work, exactly? I'm guessing the sex one just >> requires finding someone -- celestial or otherwise -- who'd be up for it. >> Would same-sex sex work for the purpose of the rite? [...] >Hmm my Ofanim of Eli tried the sex one and ended up finding out her would >be partner was a Calabim of Death who was using the excuse of getting >alone with her in an attempt to kill her. This is why you should only do it with someone you really _care_ about, and not some demon off the street... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1356 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.