From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Oct 31 12:34:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15712 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:34:42 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA19257 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:35:06 -0600 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:35:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199910311835.MAA19257@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1384 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, October 31 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1384 In this digest: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) IN> Yves? Re: Khalid (was IN> Omniscience) Re: IN> Yves? Re: IN> Khalid IN> More Internet Traffic adv Re: IN> What Celestial Bring to Earth Re: IN> AI in IN Re: IN> Khalid Re: IN> Jordi and the Critters of Myth Re: IN> AI in IN Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) IN> New Dominic Theory: EloDom IN> FREE STUFF ON THE INTERNET--NO LIE!!! Re: IN> New Dominic Theory: EloDom IN> Neon Genesis Evangelion IN> Build Your Own Descrambler and Jammer Re: IN> Spam Troubles... Re: IN> Spam Troubles... Re: IN> New Dominic Theory: EloDom Re: IN> Neon Genesis Evangelion Re: IN> N> Polite Address of Princesses (Re: Wadim) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:06:43 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) At 6:59 PM +0100 10/30/99, Liam wrote: >From: Whistling in the Dark > > > Actually, she often appears in a "fire" Numinous Corpus, so really > > yes she is.... > >i meant she wasn't going to get _burnt_ anytime soon Ahh, but that's Belial's word -- Fire as injurer and destroyer. Gabriel has Fire as Purifyer and Cleanser, yes, but also fire as warmer, agent for cooking, inspiration, the light in the darkness, the warmth of the Hearth.... On the other hand, Gabriel isn't about to have a Hearth drop on her anytime soon *either...* (Now this is just silly....) - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:17:25 +0100 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) From: Whistling in the Dark > Ahh, but that's Belial's word -- Fire as injurer and destroyer. > Gabriel has Fire as Purifyer and Cleanser, yes, but also fire as > warmer, agent for cooking, inspiration, the light in the darkness, > the warmth of the Hearth.... that wasn't my point. my point was that gabriel doesn't have to worry about fire because she *is* fire. maybe dominic is above judgement (in a sense) because he *is* judgement. liam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:26:37 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: IN> Yves? Where does Yves come from? I don't like the idea that he's merely a handy construct for the game, but I also can't find anything. Now, there's a town in England named St. Ives, but it was founded by a Cornish Saint, Ia. Ia was an Irish princess and a virgin Saint who sailed across to Cornwall. Nice history, but hardly inspiration for the Divine Mouthpiece. Any pointers? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:36:33 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: Khalid (was IN> Omniscience) >>>But he's an Elohite! :p<<< I couldn't change that part. :( - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:39:37 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Yves? >Where does Yves come from? I don't like the idea that he's merely a handy >construct for the game, but I also can't find anything. > >Now, there's a town in England named St. Ives, but it was founded by a >Cornish Saint, Ia. Ia was an Irish princess and a virgin Saint who sailed >across to Cornwall. > >Nice history, but hardly inspiration for the Divine Mouthpiece. > >Any pointers? I remember a friend of mind who took french told me that it was french was wisdom, if that helps (I'm also not entirely sure if that's true or not cause he wasn't a very good french student). In the game he's the first soul created by God, and thus must be pretty wise and intune with the big guy so I guess he was named appropriatly. Just like Kronos is either part of him (or part of god) which got ejected (my personal theory is that its the part of Yves/God that contimplated what would happen if Lucifer won). Anyway he's not just a handy construct he's sort of the first attempt God made to distinguish something from what ever God is. Interesting not just as a divine mouthpiece (though Gabriel actually fits that a little bit better, he's more of a divine ear, as if you talk to him its commonly believed God will hear it quickly, or instantly, or before you ask or something to that effect) but as God's first actual creation (and he doesn't even lord it over everybody). Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:40:40 +0100 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Khalid From: David Edelstein > I couldn't change that part. :( > i never liked the fact that khalid was an elohite. i don't thnik faith and objectivity mix that well. he'd be much better as a seraph, absolutely *sure* of the Truth of God. or maybe a virtuous malakite. liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 06:58:42 +0800 (CST) From: jones96@mailcity.com Subject: IN> More Internet Traffic adv Need More Internet Traffic? Tired of no results? For only $29.95 per month we will submit your web site to over 350 search engines and directories two times each month! Never worry about your internet ranking again! There are no set up fee's and unsatisfied clients can cancel at any time! Call our toll free number and get your web site the traffic it deserves. All work is verified! Sincerely, Mike Jones 888-532-8842 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 09:08:38 PST From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> What Celestial Bring to Earth I'd say angel of exeptionally neat ideas. Gremlins: The Anarchist's Handbook, Wow! these humans have more and better ideas than I could ever imagine. "How to build a small scale tactiical nuke in your backyard", I've got plans for this baby, hehehehe Azrael - ---------- > > Relievers: The Junior Angel's Guide to the Corporeal by I. M. Grigori > > Ben, Elohite of Eli > Angel of Neat Ideas > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 09:13:17 PST From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> AI in IN - ---------- > From: Trent > > > Do we not create a new should every time a woman gives birth (at least)? > > Are human clones soulless monsters? > Sometimes maybe, but many many souls who neither reached their destiny nor sunk to their fate, are reborn reused and recycled. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:13:55 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Khalid At 8:40 PM +0100 10/30/99, Liam wrote: >From: David Edelstein > > > I couldn't change that part. :( > > > >i never liked the fact that khalid was an elohite. i don't thnik faith and >objectivity mix that well. he'd be much better as a seraph, absolutely >*sure* of the Truth of God. or maybe a virtuous malakite. If he weren't so hugely oriented towards Islam, I'd say make him a Kyriotate, capable of the many subjective viewpoints that faith can represent, but always with the same core. As the Archangel of Islam (which is really how he's portrayed), I can almost see him as an Ofanite -- the swift sword of Allah given form. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 09:20:37 PST From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Jordi and the Critters of Myth - ---------- > From: Steel Angel > > That's it! The War isn't -about- Humanity! It's about platypusses! > > (platypi?) -That's- the big, cosmic joke that Kobal knows all about! It's > > the disposition of the souls of all the duckbills on Earth that will > > determine the Destiny or Fate of the Symphony. The male platypus can kill a man, well when I say kill I don't really mean kill, ....more like, can not kill a man. Although their spur on the back of their front flippers, do excrete poison, doesn't kill you but it makes you sick. I reckon' Gabriel got stuck by a Platypus, and went nuts cos' she's an archangel and doesn't get sick, but the poison messed with her mind....or something. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 09:27:54 PST From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> AI in IN > That depends on whether God is planning everything out or running an > experiment, I'd think. > > I have this image of God running SimReality, watching what happens. > "Hey -- look at those creatures. They're capable of faith. Actual > faith. Hm. Let's see what happens to them. Hey guys -- hands off > the humans! No, I mean it. Awwww... Lucifer, don't do *that....*" > > > -- > Eric Alfred Burns And then going, hey I'm out of essence gotta raise taxes, damn they don't like me now, I'll put 'em back, I know, I'll type in F U N D, hehehehe... OOPS... that was three times, damn!!! I wish I had spent more on a celestial help team..... In the old Mac version of SimCity typing in expletives, I believe it refered to copulating with an incestuous person, would result in a GIGANTIC Disaster in which everything was destroyed!!!! Armageddon, the Apocalypse everthing is so clear now!!! Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 09:56:00 PST From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) - ---------- > At 10:06 AM -0600 10/30/99, Ben Glickler wrote: > > > I know what BalDom is but what I don't get is the basis for it. > > > >People read the Dominic write-up and go, "Eww! What a mean angel! He's not > >cool like Michael and Laurance, and he's mean, too! And how can anyone be > >so mean to a cool-looking angel with blood splattered on him! And why do > >you need some jerk poking his nose into the business of angels!? After all, > >we're a psuedo-libertarian generation-X crowd, we play these angels, we > >don't need some jerk telling us how to do our thing!" >> > > > > > >"Woah... wait... he has a big grey robe on. And look at those EYES. EVIL > >EYES. RED EYES. BAD." > > > >"He's gotta be a BALSERAPH. Or a Republican, at the very least!" A reason for this interpratation is more than just that, why wear a robe??? Sure it looks cool, but it makes the aforementioned AA seem more dark, evil, secretive, etc... etc... It HIDES THINGS, It can change what you see. The fact that he has hidden himself seems quite the opposite of the openess and truth of a Seraph in it's celestial form. His actual appearence (as well as the aforemention symbolism) is also pretty much the opposite of the nice, friendly, open Seraph. His attunements, what's going on there? Talk about the most useless stuff I've seen. Ewww wow, 7 hits of damage, knowing what the laws of the inhabitants are (it's not like they pay any attention to them), people with a will less than 2 or 4 will immediately confess, detect crimes being commited. What the hell? What better way to draw attention away from the fact the he's a Bal (perhaps unconciously depending on your spin on the BalDom story) than making everyone who might even inquire upon his state, aware of other things, lots of other things. Dom took his own intrests above the word of God, who told Gaby to begin the Islamic faith, Dom goes: "Not Christanity, Not Catholic, I DONT LIKE IT!! What to do... I Know! Abuse my position of Power and persectute/prosectue her for it. Good PLan!!". So even if he isn't Bal he's still a bastard, Thus a new incarnation of Dominic is BasDom- a Seraph, but a mean cruel, bit selfish ( ! ) one. Did Lucifer necessarily fall because of Pride? Sure Pride can be damaging and lead to dangerous thoughts, but it is a good thing in many cases. Lack of pride can be just as damaging. Which also gives rise to the question are the Seven Deadly Sins even relevent to the IN world? After all selfishness, not sins lead to Fate. Many of the Sins are not really bad. Many can be good things, however they can go bad, which are the aspects that the Princes concerntrate upon. Dom's prosecution of Michael could have been without true purpose, coming only from his Pre-occupation with Catholicism, God himself said that Michael's Pride was good. There *ARE* logical reasons for BalDom, not just silly shallow ones. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 10:00:56 PST From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Eeeerrrrrrmmmmm...Could you possibly mean Impudites? - ---------- > From: Ben Glickler > > The little thing I always note that boggles me is Baal's Mercuriens > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 03:30:29 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) From: Azrael > Dom's prosecution of Michael could have > been without true purpose, coming only from his Pre-occupation with Catholicism i could be wrong, but i'm pretty sure dominic tried michael way before the advent of christianity liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 03:28:24 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) From: Azrael > aforemention symbolism) is also pretty much the opposite of the nice, friendly, open Seraph. in case you hadn't noticed, dominic *isn't* nice, friendly, or open. doesn't stop him being a seraph, though liam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:47:03 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) >The fact that he has hidden himself seems quite the opposite of the openess and >truth of a Seraph in it's celestial form. His actual appearence (as well as the >aforemention symbolism) is also pretty much the opposite of the nice, friendly, open Seraph. > Open yes but I wouldn't really call seraphim friendly. More like hlier than thou jerks IMHO Ben, Kyriotate of Creation, angel of stage managers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:07:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Martin Subject: IN> New Dominic Theory: EloDom I've been lurking for awhile, time to sing a little into the Symphony myself. It seems like Dominic is always cast as either a muddled Seraph or an evil Balseraph. The fanatic Malakite Dominic theory explains a fairly nasty version of the Inquisition. Turning to the Bright In Nomine, for the moment... isn't Judgement a Word ideally suited to the Elohim? - - Judgement usually involves discerning between multiple shades of gray. The "binary" (nod to Archangel Beth) natures of both Seraphim and Malakim seem unsuited to this task. - - Justice isn't about Truth, though Truth is important. It's about Fairness. Truth is just a precondition. - - Justice is supposed to be impartial. - - The symbol of the Elohim is an angel acting as Libra, a symbol normally associated with Justice. This makes Dominic a good guy, while still making him fearsome. He's as cold and aloof as ever (Elohim are like that). The APG says that Elohim *scare* other angels: "if an Elohite can see the greater good in something unpleasant, he'll perform deeds with equinamity that would distress other angels to the point of dissonance." Purging Heaven of slightly dissonant angels seems a bit extreme to most of us, but it's way more in character for an Elohite than a Seraph. Secret Police? Well, of course. *Obvious* authority figures change people's behavior. We don't want to inflict unnecessary emotions on others, now do we? Nasty inquisitions? Very efficient, effective, it's not like he's doing it out of *spite*... The Cherub's attunement? Of course. Purely pragmatic. The Cherubs would otherwise be useless in tracking down the guilty. The Mercurian's attunement? Again, pragmatic -- lets them give an eye for an eye. Also, most Mercurians don't get to experience the more violent strains of the symphony. By weighing violence against other methods, Mercurians gain wider experience, and can judge things better. Note that Mercurians still aren't *required* to use violence against the guilty. Dominic's Mercurians just *can*. (Elohim like having lots of options open...) It also explains why he worries about Eli and Gabriel; both are very emotional entities, and as such tend to frighten Dominic -- objectivity personified. And Michael -- well, Pride is an emotion too. Dominic also can't see the Truth anymore either. This means that you don't have the cop-out "Gabriel talks to Dominic, who sees the Truth and stops persecuting her." All he sees is a whirlwind of madness and hatred. Comments? -- Michael Martin Freshly minted Reliever ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:58:06 -0400 From: sjfhefh@yahoo.com Subject: IN> FREE STUFF ON THE INTERNET--NO LIE!!! NO LIE, we can get you FREE THINGS on the Internet. Wouldn't it be nice to start getting things for FREE? Well, we can help you with that. I have done extensive research on how to get free things on the Internet from many different resources. Some of these items include computer accessories, free music, free web-site promotion & design, and much much much more. This is not a joke, I assure you that the small investment that you might make in purchasing this information will definitely pay for itself with just one of the free items that we can list for you. So don't waste any time in ordering, we will throw in some more free gifts if you order within 5 days, just print this out for your free gift for ordering within 5 days. To order please send $15.00 check or money order to: Cybernet Enterprise P. O BOX, 2122 Turlock, CA 95381-2122 Include your e-mail address when ordering, so we can e-mail you the package. All orders will be sent soon after we get payment. removeremove@china.com to be removed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:52:50 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> New Dominic Theory: EloDom fascinating theory and it would make sense from a logical perspective. I see the reason that a seraph is in charge is that Heaven has that aristocracy sort of thing going. Why trust such an important word as judgement to any but one of the most holy. If one were laying out a perfect Heaven,a semi-communist heaven(from each according to their ability, to each according to their need) IMHO then an elohite would be perfect for Judgement. But Heaven doesn't run that way unfortunately, at least as I see it. That is why if Armageddon doesn't happen soon then Heaven might lose. Sorry if I rambled, it's late. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 10:18:18 PST From: "Azrael" Subject: IN> Neon Genesis Evangelion Did anybody out there right out the names of the Angels in Neon Genesis Evangelion? They are listed around episode 17, at the begining. Does anyone know their origins? Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:06:14 -0700 From: ben457@hey.to Subject: IN> Build Your Own Descrambler and Jammer - ------=_NextPart_000_37DC_000043EC.00004F6A Content-Type: text/html;


NOTE: THIS IS AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR LEGAL TV
DE-SCRAMBLER AND RADAR JAMMER IF YOU HAVE
NO INTEREST IN THIS INFORMATION
PLEASE CLICK DELETE NOW. THANK YOU--

Build your own Descrambler and Jammer

LEGAL CABLE TV DE-SCRAMBLER AND A FREE RADAR JAMMER

Want to watch Sporting Events?--Movies?--Pay-Per-View??

*This is the Famous R-D-O Shack TV Descrambler
You can assemble it from R-D-O Shack parts for about $12 or $15.

We Give You:
E-Z To follow Assembly Instructions.
E-Z To read Original Drawings.
The Famous R-D-O Shack Parts List.

PLUS SOMETHING NEW YOU MUST HAVE!

Something you can't do without.

THE UP-TO-DATE REPORT: USING A DESCRAMBLER LEGALLY



Warning: You should not build a TV Descrambler without
reading this report first.

Frequently Asked Questions--CABLE TV DESCRAMBLER

Q: Will the descrambler work on Fiber, TCI, Jarrod
and satellite systems?
A: The answer is YES. In respect to satellite,
you just get more stuff! There is one exception:
The descrambler will not work with DSS satellite.

Q: Do I need a converter box?
A: This plan works with or without a converter box.
Specific instructions are included in the plans for each!

Q: Can the cable company detect that I have the descrambler?
A: No, the signal descrambles right at the box and does
not move back through the line!

Q: Do I have to alter my existing cable system,
television or VCR?
A: The answer is no!

Q: Does this work with my remote control?
A: The answer is yes. The descrambler is
manually controlled--but very easy to use!

Q: Does this work everywhere across the country?
A: Yes, every where in the USA plus England,
Brazil, Canada and other countries!

Q: When I order, when will I get my stuff?
A: Immediately. Once your card has been aproved you
will gain immediate access to download the information.

Q: How do I order?
A: Simply call the toll free number below and
place your order 24 hours a day.


BONUS: Order Now and get plans for building your own
RADAR JAMMER FREE!!!! (A $19.95 value).

These plans include easy to follow instructions and diagrams
for building your own radar jammer.

NEVER get another speeding ticket again!!!


Why pay hundreds of dollars for these devises
when you can build your own for around 12-15 dollars.



To order call 24 hours a day
1-888-736-0868


ONLY 14.95 for both the easy to follow
CABLE DESCRAMBLER plans and the RADAR JAMMER plans.








This mailing is done by an independent marketing co.
We apologize if this message has reached you in error.
Save the Planet, Save the Trees! Advertise
via E mail. No wasted paper! Delete with
one simple keystroke! Less refuse in our Dumps!
This is the new way of new millenium!




To be removed from future mailing reply to this email


------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:00:00 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Spam Troubles... On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > As I said a while back, if someone who knows majordomo would get to me > in email with Very Explicit Instructions of how to set up a "post but > not receive email" permissions list.... I _used_ to know majordomo. It's been a while. I can take a guess, though, and I'll give it a try. A few questions before I start: What version of Majordomo are you running? Is it running on a Unix box, and if so do you have a shell account on the Unix box? Do you know how to retrieve and resend the configuration file, or should I include that in my instructions? Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:39:08 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Spam Troubles... On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, Elizabeth Bartley wrote: > I _used_ to know majordomo. [deleted] Um, sorry, forgot to reset the 'to' line. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:13:43 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> New Dominic Theory: EloDom >fascinating theory and it would make sense from a logical perspective. >I see the reason that a seraph is in charge is that Heaven has that >aristocracy sort of thing going. Why trust such an important word as >judgement to any but one of the most holy. If one were laying out a >perfect Heaven,a semi-communist heaven(from each according to their >ability, to each according to their need) IMHO then an elohite would be >perfect for Judgement. But Heaven doesn't run that way unfortunately, at >least as I see it. That is why if Armageddon doesn't happen soon then >Heaven might lose. I definetly agree that Heaven needs to get with it if they want to have a chance at winning. Hell's brutal meritocracy makes sure that their always uptodate and on the cutting edge. Those who are no longer useful are removed from power (such as when Haagenti cleaned house on his way up). Meanwhile you have to do something that gets you on Dominic's shit list to have the possibility of removal from power. And what Eli is doing is not neccesarily bad for heaven, yet it got him in trouble with Judgement. >Sorry if I rambled, it's late. Nothing wrong with rambling, its a fun source of essence. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:05:46 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Neon Genesis Evangelion From: Azrael > Did anybody out there right out the names of the Angels in Neon Genesis Evangelion? > They are listed around episode 17, at the begining. Does anyone know their origins? they're all "official" angel names, and i expect most of them have popped up somewhere in IN. sandalphon springs to mind liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:30:55 -0500 From: Adam Canning Subject: Re: IN> N> Polite Address of Princesses (Re: Wadim) >If you want Nitpicking Essence, cite when I gave you the Rite. >>They could bring up the whole Jewish view of her as a strangler of >>children...she might not like that though.... >Of course. How tacky, to _strangle_ them... Waste of good Forces, >too. There are more... effecient rituals. And she has since promised Michael and Elijah, she would stop killing children. Of course we haven't seen the three angels who provoked her into doing it in IN. But the evidence fits them being Gregori or heavy users of the song of celestial fruition. Adam ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1384 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.