From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Nov 16 01:51:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA27995 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:51:29 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id BAA23507 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:47:36 -0600 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:47:36 -0600 Message-Id: <199911160747.BAA23507@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1414 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, November 16 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1414 In this digest: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Re: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host Re: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host IN> Fudge -- In Nomine conversion IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host IN> IN Heresy Survey Re: IN> One Good Demon Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey IN> At the end of all things Re: IN> One Good Demon Re: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host IN> Fudge - In Nomine rules IN> Fear the Wrath of Beth! [Fluff] (WAS: How and Why Laurence. . .) Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey Re: IN> Fear the Wrath of Beth! [Fluff] (WAS: How and Why Laurence. . .) RE: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host IN> Resonance and Party Games Re: IN> Fear the Wrath of Beth! [Fluff] (WAS: How and Why Laurence. . .) Re: IN> Fear the Wrath of Beth! [Fluff] (WAS: How and Why Laurence. . .) Re: IN> Fear the Wrath of Beth! [Fluff] (WAS: How and Why Laurence. . .) Re: IN> Changing choirs (Re: One Good Demon) Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey Dogma (was Re: IN> To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com) IN> Re: [Fluff] Weirdness (was: Fear the Wrath of Beth!) Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey IN>Off Topic: Gates more evil than Satan?? Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey IN> Zadkiel, Demon Princess of Codependence ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 00:35:46 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? From: Earl Wajenberg > Remember, on the issue of how Lucifer hands out Words and > Princedoms, he is not only trying to muster forces against > Heaven, he is also trying to keep a balance of forces in hell > that will not depose him. He's perfectly capable of making > weak Princes whose only function is to keep strong Princes > from getting any stronger, or to keep them from banding together > and getting ideas about independence or supplanting. i would say that he's more likely to keep the DPs weak by making sure they're all fairly powerful, able to keep each other in check. i don't think making random weedy DPs with stupid words will do anything to the status quo, if they're anything like a threat to the power blocs they'll just get eaten by haagenti (if they piss of the shal-mari mob) or fried by belial (if they irritate the militants). i still think that furfur is an exception to the rule, created for the purpose of a game plot (and one that would never happen IMC, but that's my choice). i think lucifer rarely hands out princely words, and when he does it's with some thought (for instance, i reckon lucifer knew full well Legion was going to get torn to bits within days of receiving his princeship. luci just hoped that he would be able to take down some AAs when he went. as it happened, he scored big time and got raphael - the AA that it's said in the books lucifer had a hard time countering) liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 00:30:38 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host From: > > The aim of the war is to win. In the end, if you play by the rules you're at a major disadvantage, because the other side won't. > I'm not normally a situational ethicist (although that not normally sort of means that I am), but in the war for the souls of mankind > I don't see anything wrong with the ends justifying the means - this seems a little unusual to me. surely if any war was going to be one where the above would be wrong it would be a war over souls. it's like two people fighting over some eggs by throwing the eggs at each other. the mafia? what's the point in heaven winning if the angels are just as bad as the demons? liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 00:41:54 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host From: EDG > When, exactly, was Michael the leader of God's armies? Unless I missed > something, the position was Uriel's until he was called Up, and Laurence's > after that. > > Did I miss something? > yep. (hmmm, i was going to leave that as a smart-arse single-word reply, but i fear the Wrath Of Beth) michael was the original general of heaven's armies, appointed after the rebellion to combat lucifer's minions. this was when he was granted the word of war (i think he was wordless before, to be honest i don't think the first angel created needs a word to be rock-hard). after dominic's trial he stepped down as leader. opinions seem to vary on whether he did this because he felt he was no longer the right AA for the job, or because he was having a strop :) uriel took over, with Big Plans for what heaven's armies could get up to. and the rest, as they say, is history liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 18:58:41 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Fudge -- In Nomine conversion >>>This seems a /much/ more comfortable conversion than the GURPS one, to me. I don't suppose you've had a chance to playtest it?<<< No, not yet. (Hey Tim, wanna try it? ) I have been thinking about testing it with my online game. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:02:28 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host >>>When, exactly, was Michael the leader of God's armies? Unless I missed something, the position was Uriel's until he was called Up, and Laurence's after that. Did I miss something?<<< Uh, yes. Michael was made the Archangel of War and the General of the Host immediately after the Fall, and held the latter post until his trial, whereafter he resigned and was replaced by Uriel. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 18:33:41 -0700 From: EDG Subject: IN> IN Heresy Survey Friend gamers, I'm putting together an informal poll about a possible upcoming In Nomine supplement - IN Heresy, a compilation of write-ups of Fallen Archangels and Redeemed Demon Princes. It's not on the schedule yet, but if I get enough of a positive response, I'll submit a proposal to SJGames. If you're in favor of the supplement, please send email to inheresy-survey@uswest.net with the subject line "IN Heresy Yes!", and any comments you want to add in the body. If you don't want to see the supplement, send email to the same address with "IN Heresy No!"; again, comments are appreciated. As always, if you have no opinion, send nothing. :) Please only send one email - I'll only count one vote each from a single email address. Thanks for your input. :) - -EDG Please also let me know if I'm stepping on someone's toes. I don't mean to take over someone else's project, and I still am unsure as to the format I want to use for it. :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:45:00 -0600 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> One Good Demon >>Just one thing. He kills people, he's a cop, he has to kill people and rough > them up sometimes.<< Remind me to never to visit your hometown... Despite my nearness to the often violent streets of Chicago the last tyime I checked Cops are supposed to "Serve and Protect" there are a great many cops who never draw thier gun with a live target in front of them... David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:49:05 -0500 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey I attempted to reply to the address you gave (with a resounding "yes") but, for some reason, the address didn't work. please send email to > inheresy-survey@uswest.net with the subject line "IN Heresy Yes!", and > any comments you want to add in the body. If you don't want to see the > supplement, send email to the same address with "IN Heresy No!"; again, ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:55:01 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> At the end of all things Inspired by the discusion of Michael's style vs Laurence's style. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael stormed through the Marches, paying no mind to the horrors Beleth had summoned forth. He had a mission. Clutched in his left hand were the writhing remains of Saminga, Malphas, Nybbas and several of their servitors. In his right was Laurence's sword, Laurnce had deserved better than an attack from behind by Saminga. But that was behind him now. He could feel the last remnent of Baal die within him, the Archangel of War could feel the untainted Valor that his greatest friend once had. He needed it now, to finish God's victory. He entered Hell, above the swarm of souls barely kept in check by the remaining demons. He noticed that the angels of final justice had been destroyed, or perhaps deserted. It didn't matter now, Hell was about to fall before the Truth of God. The lower Hells screached, it was the sound of a dying animal Michael thought as he went deeper until he reached the throne room. There Lucifer sat, smiling softly. "Its over." Michael pronounced, reading himself for battle. Lucifer nodded, "Good of you to notice. Have you come for a place in the new order?" "I have come to finish Heaven's victory. To slay the lord of Hell and complete its destruction." "Heaven's victory?" Lucifer was definetly amused. "I have triumphed over Baal, Nybbas, Saminga, Malphas, Asmodeus and many others. Your horde is broken, on earth my angels dispatch them with little difficulty." "True. You have triumphed over my servants. But I have triumphed over God." Michael laughed. "What do you see as the souls of humans pass from the corporeal world? They are coming to me. I was right, their is nothing special about them. God was wrong, I win." Rage built up in the might Archangel, "You can not defeat the Truth of God." Sighing Lucifer bound the Archangel, "You don't understand. There is no Truth of God, there is no God as you know it. This time I bring the truth, I am the truth. I was right, all along. You were fighting for the lie. Its over Michael. Accept and embrace it or I will destroy you. I don't want that old friend. You shouldn't die over shaved apes." "I will die for the Truth of God!" he struggled against the binding. Heavy hearted Lucifer stripped Michael of his Forces and let them scatter to the cosmos. He returned to his throne, waiting for Heaven to realize what had happened. Waiting for the Tyrant to realize he had been dethroned. Waiting with billions of souls to keep him company. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:25:27 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> One Good Demon At 07:44 PM 11/15/99 -0800, you wrote: > Just one thing. He kills people, he's a cop, he has to kill people and rough >them up sometimes. maybe he just plays the good cop in the whole good cop bad cop scenario. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:34:51 EST From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host >there's no evidence that he thought like this when he was leader of heaven's >armies before. if that was the case, why didn't he kill/throw out dominic >when he first put michael on trial? The difference I see is that when Michael originally had the position, he wasn't granted it by God. He was the eldest, most powerful angel (excepting Yves, who's the special cas). It made sense for him to be the General of God's armies. Everyone wanted him to be the General. But, he wasn't given the job by God. Otherwise, (and this is important) he never would have quit the position. Now, if Michael is given the position by God, as Laurence was, then things are different. I feel that Michael would feel that his views are the "right" ones, even moreso than usual. As for Michael never doing something this petty, he decides to shelter an outcast (or was it already a demon, I don't remember and don't have the book handy) and use it to destroy Yves' artifact saint, and then plans to destroy his tool to cover up the evidence in the Liber Reliquarium adventure. From my reading of that adventure's backstory, I interpret his motives as his dislike of Yves. I believe there's some claim that it's to place the artifact collection under his control, but IMO it seems to be more the dislike for Yves. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:18:36 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Fudge - In Nomine rules As some of you know, Patrick O'Duffy also wrote a set of In Nomine-Fudge rules. With his permission, I've now added his rules to my page, so you can download both. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/AmadanSJG/Innomine.htm - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:38:35 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Fear the Wrath of Beth! [Fluff] (WAS: How and Why Laurence. . .) At 12:41 AM +0000 11/16/99, Liam wrote: >(hmmm, i was going to leave that as a smart-arse single-word reply, but i >fear the Wrath Of Beth) 'Lo, and tremble. . . For the Djinn Princess is mighty and will smite thee. Though She Who Is Most Dread may simply munch upon thee instead, to conserve her energies. And thou amongst you who sniggers at my words, be wary for thou is next. . . Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:13:32 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey At 09:49 PM 11/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >I attempted to reply to the address you gave (with a resounding "yes") but, >for some reason, the address didn't work. Make sure you're sending to inheresy-survey@uswest.net - I've received seven replies already, so I know the address works. :) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 23:51:09 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Fear the Wrath of Beth! [Fluff] (WAS: How and Why Laurence. . .) At 10:38 PM -0600 11/15/99, Shadowstar wrote: > > 'Lo, and tremble. . . For the Djinn Princess is mighty and will smite >thee. Though She Who Is Most Dread may simply munch upon thee instead, to >conserve her energies. And thou amongst you who sniggers at my words, be >wary for thou is next. . . > >Be seeing you, Oh, a good Servitor of Nitpicking like you shouldn't skirt the edges of dissonance so broadly, Tafka J. In the chasing of perfection, one can be smote so easily when one wants to be 'cute.' In the invocation of the archaic thee and thou, you fall into the grammatical ruleset of the whole of those terms, which includes verb agreement. So your last sentence is rife with error. First off, 'thou' doesn't fit there. "He who is amongst you" would be the correct construction. Then there is "thou is," which is just wrong. "I am, you are, he is, she is, thou ist." But even that's not correct, for 'ist' isn't conditional. Further, verb agreement would demand "does" be replaced by "doth." More properly: "And he who is amongst you who doth snigger at my words, be wary for thou shalt be next. . ." I wouldn't ordinarily mention such things, but anyone who wants to warn about the Wrath of the Demon Princess of Nitpicking should be all the more wary, it seems to me. Especially if they've taken her dissonance conditions. - -- Eric A. B. In contention for Demon of Belaboring the Point. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:09:52 +1100 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host Samovar wrote: > The difference I see is that when Michael originally had the position, he > wasn't granted it by God. Lucifer rebelled, Michael kicked him out of Heaven and God gave Michael the Word of War and placed him in charge of the war against Hell. Unless my memory is faulty (always a possibility), God did place Michael at the helm. The reason (IMO) that Michael wouldn't 'throw Dominic out of Heaven' is that God gave Dominic the Word of Judgement. Michael may not like it, but he doesn't question God's orders. Michael may not trust Dominic, but he has seen (from personal experience) that if God feels that the AA of Judgement has made a bad call, God Himself will overturn the decision. God acquitted Michael, but he did not say that Dominic was wrong in bringing it to trial. The distinction may be subtle, but when you realise how much Michael follows God's orders, you can see why he does not simply kick Dominic's butt. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:09:32 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Resonance and Party Games This is a list of what party games a celestial's resonance would really help with: Seraphim: Truth or Dare ("You never had sex with her Bob. Now you have to do the dare, here's the toothbrush and there's the cat...") Cherubim: Hide and go seek ("I know your behind the rose bush, now come out of there before you hurt yourself. Don't make me come after you.") Ofanim: Tag and Capture the Flag ("No fair! I want Janus on my team this time.") Elohim: Hosting a Murder ("Why would you react with disapointment if I accused you of being the murderer? Hmm I wonder.") Malakim: Russian Rouliette Kyriotate: Simon says Mercurian: Whose Having an Affair (my girlfriend actually plays this game) Balseraphs: Telephone ("Purple monkey diswasher") Djinn: Hide and go seek Calabim: Full Contact [Insert Sport Here] ("Yeah!!!! Touch down!!!! What, we're playing baseball? Ok. Yeah!!!! Home run!!!!!") Habalah: Killing Cupid ("I never thought Mark and Heather were a good couple.") Lilim: Double Dog Dare Shedim: Chain Tag Impudites: Massage Circle ("I'm next for Andre to massage." "No your not pig face I am!!" "&*%# you!!!" "Calm down everybody, you'll all get a turn.") And if anyone is wondering yes I am delerius with the flu (I should have listened to the advice Steve gave everybody, but no I had to be lazy). Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:06:44 +1100 From: Chris Rose Subject: Re: IN> Fear the Wrath of Beth! [Fluff] (WAS: How and Why Laurence. . .) At 10:38 PM 15/11/99 -0600, you wrote: > 'Lo, and tremble. . . For the Djinn Princess is mighty and will smite >thee. Though She Who Is Most Dread may simply munch upon thee instead, to >conserve her energies. And thou amongst you who sniggers at my words, be >wary for thou is next. . . Shouldn't that be "thou ART next"? Smile when you nitpick that .... >Be seeing you, > >- Tafka J. OBIn-Nomine: Can anybody beat this fight for weirdness? Good Guys: Mercurian of Destiny, trying for word of Curiosity Bright Lillim of Destiny, Just redeemed, probably going to serve Creation Malakim of Purity - One of the Tsayadim (now the weirdness begins....) High Faerie Lord Bad Guys: Two Soldiers of Hell wielding Baseball Bats Huitzilopochtli, Aztec go of The Sun, Blood and War, wielding a bloody great Obsidian Sword C'mon, you know you can all beat this.. ^C Ofanim of Lightning Angel of Phone Tech Support - ---------------------------------------------------------- Chris Rose rembrat@connect.net.au "Do What Thou Wilt, But Be Cool" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 23:17:35 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Fear the Wrath of Beth! [Fluff] (WAS: How and Why Laurence. . .) At 11:51 PM -0500 11/15/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >I wouldn't ordinarily mention such things, but anyone who wants to >warn about the Wrath of the Demon Princess of Nitpicking should be >all the more wary, it seems to me. Especially if they've taken her >dissonance conditions. Well met. . . However, I'm a Balseraph Marquis of Fate, in Service to Princess Beth. Which means I have the nitpicking rite (and quite possibly her Band attunement), but I haven't taken her Dissonance conditions. I _have_ however sworn an _Oath_ never to openly annoy the Djinn Princess. Feeding her choco-sprinkled Ofanim also seems to help. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:37:19 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Fear the Wrath of Beth! [Fluff] (WAS: How and Why Laurence. . .) >OBIn-Nomine: Can anybody beat this fight for weirdness? If it doesn't have to be a physical fight, just a long term antagonism. Good Guys: Xavier, Seraph of Flowers Missy, Pagan Sorcerous Brad, 'Redeemed' Undead Lara, Ofanite of the Wind Bad Guys: Set Thomas, Immortal Sorceror/Necromancer Aphrodite (not willingly) Ian, Balseraph of Nightmares (a complete and utter patsy) Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 23:45:42 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Changing choirs (Re: One Good Demon) >Is it always necssecary for a demon when redeeming to go to the >opposite choir? I mean, I just can't see many Calabim, the fighters >of the demonic world, being happy at shifting to messangers, and >particularly annoying messangers at that. Malakim yes, Ofanim, no. I >also can't see, say, Michael, wanting to waste someone with that >much training. I ask this because I was reading the digest, and it >got me going to ask for help with what's occured in my chronicle. Ofanim can act as messengers, but a combat monster Ofanite is a very dangerous thing indeed. Their resonance is directly useful in combat, albeit more subtle than the Calabim one. Most Ofanim tend to diversify (possibly due to an attention-span problem), but if they focus, they're the ideal soldiers. Given a choice between being forced to fight two characters who are identical except for their choirs, I'd take the Malakite over the Ofanite any day. Just recall those people dodging bullets in The Matrix... >One of my players is a Calabim of Fire who got really burnt a while >ago, and ever since then has been seeking calm. He got into the >whole it's all cool mindset, and is wandering around in a pool of >calm. But he just can't see himself surviving as an ofanim where >it's dissonant not to move, when all he wants is to continue to >wander around happy. He'd make a great Elohim or Seraph, but if he >redeems as an ofanim I can't see any way to prevent a yo-yo. Sounds like Eli would be an ideal boss. Just be one of his Ofanim who surfs the Symphony, going wherever feels right, always finding new and interesting things to do and people to help. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:35:37 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey What's wrong with people just posting the alternate Princes/ Archangels here? jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 00:44:26 -0800 From: graveyard@cstone.net (Graveyard Greg) Subject: Dogma (was Re: IN> To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com) > > >goldencalf@hushmail.com wrote: > >> Get HushMail. The world's first free, fully encrypted, ... > > Umm, just take a moment and look at that return address. Just look at it. And >remember what this list often delves into. Coincidence...? I THINK NOT! Man, and right >after seeing Dogma and it's Mooby-thing, just...wow. > I just got back from said movie, and am REALLY bemused by this. God *is* funny! =) DOGMA is highly recommended, fans of In Nomine (and who on this list isn't a fan? I didn't think so), so go see it ASAP. You'll love it, and have I ever led you astray? (Don't answer that) Graveyard Greg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 00:46:01 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: IN> Re: [Fluff] Weirdness (was: Fear the Wrath of Beth!) >OBIn-Nomine: Can anybody beat this fight for weirdness? Well, while not technically a fight, there was the rather surreal session just last Friday where we were strolling down a street in Shal-Mari towards our audience with Lucifer when a random Calabite of Theft went by on a motorcycle and swiped the imp we'd made up to look like a miniature version of the Shining One himself. We commandeered a convertible from the nearest Impudite (ah, the benefits of rank) and pursued, though our prey was going faster and heading into a maze of tunnels leading to an adjoining realm. Some quick thinking on my part got our Djinn to attune himself to the artifact halibut that stuck to things (don't ask--Kobal dropped it earlier), and a quick flip of the old madness-inducing pseudopod got the halibut on the imp, giving us a way to track him. To make a long story short, we caused a lot of damage, and managed to run down the Calabite atop a Mark IV OGRE we found lying around in Gehenna, then proceeded to get ourselves nearly smitten out of existence, though my character did manage to wrest a promotion out of the whole affair, mostly for sheer audacity. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 00:57:14 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey At 10:35 PM -0800 11/15/99, Jo Hart wrote: >What's wrong with people just posting the alternate Princes/ Archangels >here? Nothing. Except for those of us who want the CANONized version we all wanted when BalDom, BalMikey, TsydanLarry and OutcastDave got axed from Superiors 1. Besides which, IN Heresy is such a cool concept I'm certain many people will go out and BUY it. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 02:02:43 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey At 10:35 PM -0800 11/15/99, Jo Hart wrote: >What's wrong with people just posting the alternate Princes/ Archangels here? And then net.booking them together on the INC. So we could have eight or nine Prince Michaels, for example. Plus campaign ideas and whatnot.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 02:08:51 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey At 12:57 AM -0600 11/16/99, Shadowstar wrote: >At 10:35 PM -0800 11/15/99, Jo Hart wrote: > >What's wrong with people just posting the alternate Princes/ Archangels > >here? > > Nothing. Except for those of us who want the CANONized version we all >wanted when BalDom, BalMikey, TsydanLarry and OutcastDave got axed from >Superiors 1. Um... I'm for IN Heresy. I like the idea, if it's built as a sourcebook that goes off book, that has some ideas and alt.Superiors and the like. I'll buy it. But nothing in IN Heresy will be "CANON." Not one word. The Michael, Prince of Wrath writeup that might appear there would be no more Canon than a Michael, Prince of Bunnies writeup posted here. It's *heresy.* Apocrypha. It's where you go if you leave Canon entirely. So I'm with Jo. If EDG and six other people want to submit In Nomine Heresy outlines, power to them. I'll probably buy it. But I very much want to see the alternates posted here when people come up with them, and hope they continue afterward. Besides, I've enjoyed the net.book project as it's been built. A nice collaberation has been formed to date. I'd like to see it continued. - -- Eric, Habbalah of the Game, in contention for the Word of Belaboring the Point. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 23:37:02 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey >From: Whistling in the Dark >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >At 10:35 PM -0800 11/15/99, Jo Hart wrote: >>What's wrong with people just posting the alternate Princes/ Archangels >>here? > >And then net.booking them together on the INC. So we could have >eight or nine Prince Michaels, for example. Plus campaign ideas and >whatnot.... > > Hey, it works for me ;) jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:40:20 -0600 From: "Ben Chism" Subject: IN>Off Topic: Gates more evil than Satan?? Ok, I just saw this and had to share... Go to www.google.com and type in "More Evil than Satan himself" into the search box.....and just check out the top result... Man I love google now. Ben Chism Angel of War Stories Demon of Useless Knowledge(Hey, I've even got a website www.uselessknowledge.com ::Yeah it's not really MINE...but it's cool regardless) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:47:19 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> IN Heresy Survey At 2:08 AM -0500 11/16/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >But nothing in IN Heresy will be "CANON." Not one word. The >Michael, Prince of Wrath writeup that might appear there would be no >more Canon than a Michael, Prince of Bunnies writeup posted here. It will be 'canon' in the essence that it would be an official product of SJGames. Perhaps more appropriately I should have used the words: PUBLISHED. };;;> >It's *heresy.* Apocrypha. It's where you go if you leave Canon >entirely. So I'm with Jo. If EDG and six other people want to >submit In Nomine Heresy outlines, power to them. I'll probably buy >it. But I very much want to see the alternates posted here when >people come up with them, and hope they continue afterward. I'm not saying they can't. I'm with you as well. If you want to submit twelve 'bright' versions of Saminga, go for it! Creativity is not to be censored. . . >Besides, I've enjoyed the net.book project as it's been built. A >nice collaberation has been formed to date. I'd like to see it >continued. As do I. I just want to hold in my hands a nice sourcebook with the words 'In Nomine: Heresy' in angry red lettering. . . };;;> Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 02:45:26 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Zadkiel, Demon Princess of Codependence "The World is foolish and wicked and weak. We must protect it, from itself if need be." How'd she fall? Heaven knows, but I don't. Did something break that big warm Cherubic heart? Or did she just come to take her Word all too seriously, seeking to protect her charges even when Protection wasn't really what they needed? However it happened, Fall she did, and now she's one of the Djinn. And while she still seems nice enough at first glance, in fact she's scary even by Djinnish standards. Asmodeus is cynical, Beleth is brooding... but Zadkiel *smiles*. She still has a deep understanding of human frailty. But now she wants, not just to protect that frailty, but to preserve it. All the flaws and follies of humanity come under her new Word: where before she would seek to protect the sinner, now she guards the sin. (Is she mad as any Habbalite, or does that too-warm smile hide the bitter and broken heart of a typical Djinn? You go ask her, I don't care to, thanks) Falling hasn't changed her external appearance much. She still manifests as a warm, maternal figure with soft features and bright, understanding eyes. _Very_ understanding eyes. No matter what evil you've done, what horrors you may have committed, Zadkiel wants you to know that she's there for you. Stolen from your business? It's Zadkiel who'll find a way to help you cook the books to get away with it. Got a drug habit? Fleurity gets you hooked, but it's Zadkiel who will find a hundred ways for you to lie and steal to get that next fix. Pedophile, serial killer, member of an ethnic-cleansing death squad? She knows you can't help yourself... it's your so-called victims' fault, really... and she'll help you find a way to escape retribution, human or divine. (Of course, the people Zadkiel "helps" tend to end up in Hell, eventually. But that's okay, too. She has been building a _very special_ Principality on the outskirts of Shal-Mari...) Zadkiel is a new Princess, but her Word is a powerful one; everyone who tolerates human wickedness for some bad reason feeds her. Does a bleeding-heart liberal campaign for the release of an unquestionably guilty killer who has become a poster child against the death penalty? Zadkiel is served. Does a conservative politician oppose much-needed safety and environmental legislation, because corporate sponsors are contributing to his campaign? Why, that serves Zadkiel, too. Already she has surpassed several of the minor Princes, and her power is growing rapidly; this age of the world, with its complications and excuses, is a good time for her. If nothing intervenes, she'll soon be a major Princess, perhaps even more powerful than she was as an Archangel. Dissonance Demons of Zadkiel are charged with the protection and encouragement of human wickedness and folly. It is dissonant for these demons to allow a human to be reformed, redeemed, or even seriously distracted from the path of evil, if they can possibly do anything to prevent this. Band Attunements Balseraphs -- Balseraphs of Zadkiel add their Ethereal Forces to their resonance roll when trying to make someone believe something that will hurt themselves or others. "Of course you don't have a problem. You can quite any time you want to!" Djinn -- The ultimate codependents, Zadkiel's Djinn must always choose one human to whom they are attuned as their Charge. Their check digit is always assumed to be 6 when using their resonance on their Charge. Calabim -- Calabim of Codependence double the check digit of their resonance when attacking any person or thing that seeks to redeem or reform a sinner or correct an evil. They are frequently tasked with sabotaging drug rehab clinics, destroying evidence, and the like. Habbalim -- Zadkiel's Habbalim know those who are in emotional pain, especially those who will hurt themselves or others. They also know how to point out the most destructive possible avenues for releasing these emotions. A successful roll will cause the subject, not only to feel the emotions inflicted by the Habbalite, but to follow the demon's instructions in discharging his emotions for minutes equal to the check digit. (This attunement only works if the subject already felt the emotion, at least a little, before the resonance was applied. The Habbalite could use its resonance to create the emotion, of course, but this would require another roll) Lilim -- Like Lilim of Fate, these demons can see Discord (or those human personality traits that resemble discord) in the eyes of others. They regenerate 1 essence whenever they convince (or Geas) a human to do something that will hurt himself or others. Shedim -- Shedim of Codependence corrupt their hosts in the usual manner, but generate a point of Essence for every evil act they make their hosts commit. Each day, they can generate Essence equal to their celestial forces in this manner. Impudites -- Impudites of Codependence are the friends you _don't_ need. With a touch and a successful Perception roll, they can tell a subject's moral weaknesses... from minor failings on a 1, to his greatest flaw on a 6. They add their ethereal forces to any Fast-Talk, Lie, or Seduction skill roll that plays on or encourages any such failing (if they don't have those skills, then they default to the number of their ethereal forces when trying this). They also get +2 charisma at all times. Servitor Attunements I'm OK, you're OK -- Grants the target complete moral certainty as to his health, the uprightness of his character, and the righteousness of his cause. Thus an addict would become sure that he was healthy, a criminal would be sure that society made him do it, etc. Can be resisted with a Will roll (though the subject may not always want to resist, of course). Lasts for hours equal to the check digit, and the demon must touch the target. Distinctions Knight of Protection from Interference -- A Knight can sense whenever someone is trying to reform a sinner, redeem a demon, help an addict, or is otherwise seeking to fight evil and moral weakness. Check vs. the demon's perception plus celestial forces. The check digit indicates how many tens of yards the demons can sense, plus how specific the sense will be (from "someone in this room is trying to help fight violence" to "that guy right there is a an experienced church worker running a program to get troubled youth out of gangs and into jobs") Captain of Codependence -- A Captain can use the Malakim Resonance table, except that he always knows the ignoble aspects of a subject, never the noble ones. Baron of Excuses -- As above, except that the Baron also knows instantly how best to justify the subject's ignoble aspects to himself and to others. Relations Andrealphus -- "Oh, yes. We are going to make *beautiful* music together." Asmodeus -- "She plays her own game well." Baal -- "Bah! Wars are won by fighting, not helping each other feel good about ourselves." Beleth -- "Smiling, cooing, simpering fool. That's a fallen Cherub? They say _that's_ frightening? She'd better stay away from my Marches." Belial -- "Uh... what Baal said." Fleurity -- "Oh. Oh, it's love, baby. Hit the vein, and push it ALL the way in..." Haagenti -- "You hold the plate, baby, and I'll hold the fork!" Kobal -- "Hi, I'm from Hell, I'm here to help you. Heh heh heh." Kronos -- "Yes. This is how we help them find their fates... by blinding them to themselves, and to all other possibilities. I approve." Lilith -- "Mmm, she seeks to enslave us, even if only to ourselves. What she does subverts choice and free will. And doesn't Hell have enough Princesses? Get rid of her." Malphas -- "I like what she does, but I hate the way she does it. She has them helping each other, even if it's only help down the road to Hell. We each of us fall alone. She doesn't _understand_." Nybbas -- "Ethnic cleansing? Self-determination! Murder? Self defense! Rape? She was begging for it! Child abuse? Discipline! This girl has the real creative touch! I see big, big numbers!" Saminga -- "Who cares? Dead is dead." Valefor -- "She protects people from the consequences of their actions. Is that really a good thing? Incompetent thieves _should_ get caught..." Vapula -- "She protects people from the consequences of their actions, and that's a good thing. Technology shouldn't have to worry about consequences." Allied: Andrealphus, Fleurity, Nybbas Associated: Kronos Hostile: Baal, Belial, Malphas Enemy: Lilith, Beleth Basic rites Spend two hours convincing a human that he should feel good about himself no matter what people may say Remove a human from a situation where that human would undergo help or treatment for a moral flaw or addiction Invocation modifiers +1 A self-help book that really doesn't +2 A person (other than a Balseraph) denying that he has a problem, when he does +3 Someone who has taken back an abusive spouse +4 Someone explaining why an atrocity was necessary +5 A criminal or drug addict, previously reformed, who has relapsed within the last six hours +6 The successful coverup of a major political scandal ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1414 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.