From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Nov 30 21:27:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA25874 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:27:29 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA24567 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:24:31 -0600 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:24:31 -0600 Message-Id: <199912010324.VAA24567@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1439 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, November 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1439 In this digest: IN> Words, distinctions IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement Re: IN> Words, distinctions. IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement Re: Kyrio Resonance (was RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement) IN> Divine Religions IN> Plurals and Singulars Re: IN> Mercurians, &, Malakim Re: IN> Uh, hey. IN> Malakim with a sense of humor Re: IN> Cherubim Connections Re: IN> Cherubim Connections RE: IN> Cherubim Connections Re: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement Re: IN> Re: Mercurian dissonance Re: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement Re: IN> Cherubim Connections IN> How do demons figure these things out? Re: IN> Merc resonances RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement IN> Laurence's Fight Song! Re: IN> Laurence's Fight Song! RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance Re: IN> Enough with the Smarmy Nitpicking! IN> The Harrowing of Hell Re: IN> PBEM/Bored over Christmas IN> Humanity Attunement in the Celestial Realms Re: IN> PBEM/Bored over Christmas RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:01:20 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Words, distinctions >>>Distinctions: ============ Generally, Angels are awarded their first rank Distinction when they're around 11-12 forces (10-11 for Demons, since they fledge sooner).<<< This is not correct. Angels and demons are awarded a Distinction when their Superior thinks they deserve one, and not before. You can earn a Distinction while still having only 9 Forces, or you can be a 15-Force Servitor without a Distinction (although the latter is unlikely, particularly among demons, since a Superior probably wouldn't let someone unworthy of a Distinction become that powerful). >>>(I believe more detailed info about how distinctions are usually handed out is under 'Rewards', in the new Superiors-line of books.)<<< And much more information in the GMG. About Words too. (A whole chapter on Words, in fact.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:06:52 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement >>>It would be enormously powerful -- if it didn't also cripple many of the demon's abilities at the same time. They get to use attributes, attunements, and resonance, and that's about it. No Songs, no Essence recovery. I might even rule as GM that attributes way above human norm get knocked down somewhat, as the vessel is no longer being sustained directly by celestial energies, but is operating on corporeal rules.<<< Even with the limitations, saying that EVERY other celestial power bends its way around the attunement is way too powerful. Remember, it's an attunement granted by a Demon Prince, and thus can't be more powerful than Asmodeus. It's not a permanent Infernal Intervention. So automatically trumping even indirect means of deducing someone is a celestial makes it way too powerful. It should block any information-gathering power that would generate a red light saying "Celestial!" But it shouldn't necessarily block anything that inadvertently reveals that the person is abnormally poweful (after all, just because he's got 12 Forces doesn't *necessarily* mean he's not human). Go down this path, and you WILL have headaches. For example, how many normal people could take 12 shotgun blasts to the face? Suppose PCs are in a fight with a really tough demon of the Game with the Humanity attunement active, and notice they've inflicted over 100 Body hits and the "human" shows no signs of slowing down. What does the Humanity attunement do then....cause the demon to collapse? Make the PCs believe they missed a bunch of times when they didn't? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:15:10 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Words, distinctions. >I know the guidelines in the books for obtaining Words and distinctions are >purposefully vague, but I could really use some concrete examples and >suggestions. Well, IMC I tend to give out 1-2 character points per hour of play. So, an average evening of play -- dinnertime to 11-12 -- typically generates 5-10 points. I suspect this is a bit high, but OTOH my campaigns can be rather dangerous -- Dissonance and Discord are fairly common, combat can be lethal, and force-stripping is not unknown. But say a PC is doing well. At the end of a month of weekly sessions he's accumulated 30 points (which would be above average, especially if he's managed to avoid losing forces or gaining dissonance or discord, but not unheard of). That's three Forces (!), six attunements, or a heckuvalotta skills and songs. IMC, my players have picked up the habit of buying a Force or two first... Anyhow, around this point the PC should now be _eligible_ for a distinction. However, my house rule is that you gotta have some fairly spectacular success to get one of these; you don't just get them by hanging around and surviving. As to Words... mmm, big judgment call here. It should *always* be something that a PC works for over a long period of time. Typically it's background for several sessions, then, when it's time for that PC to really go for it, it's worth a short adventure in its own right. Couple of things to keep in mind: - -- It's possible to work up from a little Word to a bigger one. So, the Angel of Dental Floss *can* move up to be the Angel of Oral Hygiene. True, an angel might fall in love with dental floss to the point that she stays happily with that Word forever. But a PC, I can promise you, will rarely do this. So gently discourage PCs who take starter characters and want to pursue the Words of Genocide or Art. Suggest that they start with Death Squads or Abstract Sculpture first... that'll keep them _plenty_ busy. - -- Pick your PC Words carefully. The players do NOT control this; the Seraphic Council/Lucifer/you the GM do. Some Words will fit into your campaign much better than others; some throw off plot hooks in excess, while others will consign the PC to the shelf. >Could someone provide a concrete example of the tasks necessary to obtain a >distinction? What would qualify as a spectacular success/advancement of >your boss's word? What are some examples of tasks that would qualify an >angel for a higher-level distinction? Examples of winning a 1st-level distinction IMC: total success in a fairly challenging plan assigned you by your Superior; disruption of a significant enemy plan. Wiping out all but one of an annoying angelic party (demon); leading the rescue and Redemption of a renegade Demon (angel). A short expedition to Hell (angel). A couple of times, I must admit, I've allowed 1st-level distinctions to be acquired by PCs who had lots of points, and long records of reasonable success, but no single outstanding episode. But these were typically PCs who had 12+ forces and were doing well in general. 2nd level -- I've never allowed these to be given for seniority; no matter how many Forces or Songs an angel has picked up, distinctions at this level must be earned by outstanding successes. Basically it's more of the same, just more so. Crippling or destroying an enemy Tether. Completely foiling a plot of Saminga _and_ making him look stupid (Kobal). Protecting George Mitchell against no less than five Malphan plots to kill or corrupt him and destroy the Northern Ireland peace process -- That one required some real-world research on my part, played out over two sessions, and had fairly heavy casualties -- two PCs traumatized, one with two forces lost, and a Servant, several Soldiers, and a major NPC all biting the dust. That Cherub *earned* his Friend of the Gardeners distinction... One Mal of Blandine got it for an extended and *highly* dangerous mission deep into the nastier end of the Marches (an episode in which I shamelessly plagiarized some of the more unsettling bits from Gaiman's "Sandman"). And IIRC one Djinn got it for driving his victim -- a prominent politician -- spectacularly insane 3rd level -- Think I've only given out three or four of these, ever. And IIRC two of them were for playing through "The Final Trumpet". Okay, you don't _have_ to prevent Armageddon to become a Baron of Eternal Ecstacy, but it does help. One thing to impress upon your players: Distinctions are not attunements... they're ranks; the "special power" that you get with them is _secondary_. Master of the Armies of God, frex, gives you the ability to say "NO" firmly. This would be a pretty ordinary five-point attunement... but the rank that goes with it entitles an angel to some *serious* respect. -- One way to do this is to have a rather modest-looking NPC angel show up and have everyone say, ooooh, Smithiel, he's a Master of the Machine (or whatever). Or have the PCs reporting to a rather stern supervisor who "only" has a second level distinction, but who obviously deserves and demands respect. IMC, a 12-Force angel with a medium sized Word and a second level distinction would be able to pull rank on a 16-Force angel who had neither. Demons, maybe even worse. After all, rank among the Fallen means that a Prince has invested some time and effort into you. Attacking a highly distincted demon is attacking his Superior! A Knight can expect ordinary demons to step aside and show some respect; a Captain can expect them to bow and grovel a bit. And lower-ranking Servitors of his Superior (or an allied one) should also snap to attention and follow a Captain's orders, as long as they're not contradicting pre-existing instructions or *obviously* insane. A Baron... ahh, life is good. By this time half Hell knows who you are; if you've gotten this far, you've probably shown up on HellTV. Certainly all the Servitors of your Prince will know you, and lower ranking ones will abase themselves. Always wanted to have your boots licked clean by an Impudite? Now's your chance... Distincted angels are expected to carry themselves with more dignity, of course, but I've noticed the occasional bit of swagger. Note that this cuts both ways. "Now that you're a Friend of the Sages, perhaps it's time to calm down a little? Behavior that would be winked at in a lesser Servitor is, well, less acceptable at this level..." You can complicate things further, of course, by saying that some Superiors are a bit easier with Distinctions than others. IMC Gabriel is famously random with them, while Laurence and Novalis are particularly challenging (for different reasons). Up to you. >The angels I'm running include a charismatic (and unrepentantly militant) >Mercurian of Destiny, a violent (and sometimes pissy) Malakite of Fire, a >wild, enthusiastic, carefree (and competent) Ofanite of Fire, an often-badly >played Malakite of Destiny who occasionally is cool, and a Cherub of the >Sword. Sounds interesting. Can't say more than that without knowing what kind of campaign you're running, and what you're expecting/hoping for them to do. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:08:29 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement >>>one thing I wish was that the humanity attunement could work on non-human vessels. It would be great to have say felinity and be able to pretend you were a normal cat.<<< It does. I wrote an Imp of the Game for the IPG who does that very trick. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:14:53 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Kyrio Resonance (was RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement) At 5:01 PM +1100 11/30/99, Leath Sheales wrote: >Do they actually have to declare how many forces they are devoting to a >particular possession? The way I've always played them is that the Kyrio >simply invokes his resonance on the target and, if successful, the required >number of forces are taken up. That's how I've always played it. > If the target is bigger than first thought, >the Kyrio feels the pull and is forced to give up control of other hosts >until he controls the new host. I've played it, he will either bounce ("too big!") or he'll have to give up other hosts -- but he can choose whether or not to do that. > He doesn't actually realise how big the >thing is until he possesses it. That'd be my take. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:15:17 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Divine Religions Some religions (numerous african tribals ones especially) believe in a divine force outside of this reality. They do worship it but also give offerings to and worship lesser spirits within this reality, which can act as safe intermediates between the divine and themselves (they believed lots of natural phenominium, especially devisating ones were the divine coming too close to creation). Do these religions count as divine religions? Are the intermediate spirits angels? Or are some of them ethereals who do believe in and worship God and serve as intermediates for the tribe in question? Just food for thought, when I read about these religions and got to thinking about Heavne aligned ethereals it made me think that Uriel was a really really big jerk instead of just a really big jerk. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:21:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Plurals and Singulars Since I have to keep my own eyes trained such that I don't start using the wrong plurals and singulars myself (I remember how long it took to train myself to get the arcane art _right_ in the first place), and since an entire raving post generated from over 150 messages in one blessed day and frustration over other non-related dealings with idiots wouldn't be useful... (But look what it's done to my convoluted paragraphing!) http://www.sjgames.com/general/guidelines/writers/in-nomine-style-sheet.html Singluars. Plurals. Capitalizations. No, that's not HTML, it's Quark markup. Read it. Be enlightened. Have an ineffable experience. Improve your cogitation. Get girls/guys. Make mon... nevermind. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:27:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians, &, Malakim At 12:06 AM -0800 11/30/99, Jo Hart wrote: >You know, it's quite possible that a Mercurian could talk to someone, give >up, wave in the Malakite ... and the Malakite could turn round to him and >say "No. Try harder. I can sense something better in this one, and you >haven't got to it yet." Okay, so it's breaking my own at-least 1/3rd of the post should be your own stuff, and only going for half, but... **********YES********** (I love that image.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:21:30 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Uh, hey. At 9:55 -0500 11/30/99, BillionSix@aol.com wrote: >What if someone attacks you with a poin-ted stick? You release the Cherub of Jordi.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:25:03 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Malakim with a sense of humor As I may have mentioned before, I think Malakim are as capable of having a sense of humor as anyone else. What kind of sense of humor, whether or not it was expressed (and how), or what they thought was funny would depend on the Malakite. For example: Malakim of Dominic wouldn't express a sense of humor very often. Malakim of Eli would (even if they were for some strange reason working for Dominic). Malakim of Jordi would probably have really rude senses of humor and would think human pratfalls and misfortunes funny. I suspect they are not popular with many other angels, especially Mercurians and Servitors of Novalis. Malakim of Laurence probably don't have *time* to have a sense of humor. One thing they would all have in common is that they don't think evil is a laughing matter. The only funny demon is a dead demon or one you are in the process of successfully killing. (There is a story somewhere in the In Nomine Collection with a demon who is captured by Malakim of Dreams in the Marches, in which the author describes the Malakim as "amusing" themselves with the demon. I can see even the most honorable and warm-hearted Malakite, the sort who would have Oaths about protecting humans and never harming innocent bystanders, having a blind spot where torturing demons is concerned -- as long as it's torture with death as its eventual purpose, because letting the demon live would be dissonant.) Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:28:14 -0600 From: "Ben Chism" Subject: Re: IN> Cherubim Connections > When someone asked why the Cherub who left his attuned in charge of a > Malakite with a short attention span did not notice the attuned being > attacked by a demon, the originator of the story said the demon used the > Celestial Song of Shields. > > I have a problem with this, to wit: the Song of Shields blocks disturbance > in the Symphony. Therefore, it would prevent any celestial noticing the > disturbance when a human was being attacked and killed. This would include > the Cherub. The Song of Shields also blocks out resonance and attunements(pg 84 main book...couldn't find my Liber Canticorum......). So if the Cherub was outside the area shielded he wouldn't notice anything. Ben Chism ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:30:11 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Cherubim Connections >When someone asked why the Cherub who left his attuned in charge of a >Malakite with a short attention span did not notice the attuned being >attacked by a demon, the originator of the story said the demon used the >Celestial Song of Shields. > >I have a problem with this, to wit: [snip] > >the connection between a Cherub and his attuned has nothing to do with >disturbance in the Symphony. Cherubim know when their attuned is in DANGER, >whether or not the Symphony has being disturbed (yet) by that danger. >They're aware of demons or other malefactors stalking or watching their >attuned (with a good enough die roll, with the expanded attunement). > It blocks resonances too. "No celestial force -- whether it's a resonance or an attunement -- can peek beneath this shield." I interpret this as meaning no information passes in or out while the Song lasts. It's actually a pretty powerful Song. IMC it's a favored tool of celestials who want to do something fast and nasty that would otherwise be dangerously loud. Drawbacks -- it doesn't last very long, and the Song itself creates a bit of disturbance -- keep it from being unbalancing IMO. And it doesn't *sever* the Cherub's resonance-link... just acts like a temporary local anesthetic. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:31:11 +1100 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Cherubim Connections Janet wrote: > I would think the connection is not vulnerable to the Song of Shields or > anything short of major intervention by a Superior or perhaps a specific > artifact for that purpose. The Ethereal Song of Shields blocks resonances, therefore I would rule that this one could stop the Cherub from knowing. However, a Cherub who scored a CD 6 on a previous resonance roll would know that the attuned was going to be in danger in the future. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:42:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement At 4:56 PM -0500 11/30/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >one thing I wish was that the humanity attunement could work on non-human >vessels. It would be great to have say felinity and be able to pretend you >were a normal cat. Get a cat vessel. Make sure Asmodeus knows you have it. Invoke Humanity. Presto, mundane cat. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:45:40 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Mercurian dissonance At 5:39 PM -0500 11/30/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 3:21 -0500 11/30/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >>2) Merc is a Servant of a more powerful angel... not a Servitor, a >>Servant, Will-bound. He's instructed to hurt someone and fails his Will >>roll. Dissonant? (I say yes, though it's a bit fuzzier than #1 IMO). > >I'd say yes -- it's still against his nature; he should have blown all his >Essence on his Will roll. (If he had no Essence, well, he should have >saved it up, shouldn't he...?) I'd give a strong bonus to Will on an >order like this, too. As a note, giving bonuses to Will rolls for servants is most definitely in line with the expanded servant rules in the Liber Servitorum. (Nah, you don't have to get it, but if you're worried about people abusing servants, that's the place to look.) >>4) Merc is taken over by the Song of Possession (I say no Dissonance... >>otherwise this would make Mercs, and everyone else, way too vulnerable to >>this Song, which is powerful enough already). > >Nope. *He*'s not doing it; the possessor is. Right. The possessor wears the vessel like a suit of clothing, while the Mercurian sits in the Marches and fumes (or, more likely, makes tracks for Blandine's Tower). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:40:58 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement About the essence detecting thing, those with humanity activated can't regenerate it naturally but can still spend it, most of them probably won't be maxed out on essence when its in use so they probably don't have to worry about that. For other indirect methods celestials will probably start figuring out something is up. Your damage example doesn't automaticly indicate celestial, it indicates something not normal for humans (it could be an ethereal or an undead being). Most demons using humanity would probably not stay around for fights against the big boys considering they don't have access to songs. They would also probably play dead when appropriate (Balseraphs would be good at this). Since it masks enough to leave only clues that their not actually human you can't instantly assume that every cute little girl that has 10 essence and can take 100 some body hits is a demon of the game. It just means that what ever she is it ain't a normal human. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:54:09 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Cherubim Connections At 3:02 PM -0800 11/30/99, Janet Anderson wrote: >When someone asked why the Cherub who left his attuned in charge of a >Malakite with a short attention span did not notice the attuned being >attacked by a demon, the originator of the story said the demon used the >Celestial Song of Shields. p. 95, Cherub resonance: "If [the attuned] is destroyed, or in immediate mortal danger, he will know instantly." Celestial Song of Shields, p. 84: "No celestial force -- whether it's a resonance or an attunement -- can peek beneath the shield." If the Cherub, BEFORE the Song of Shields was performed, made a resonance roll and got a CD 6, then the Cherub would have known. But if he didn't, then the Song protects -- his resonance cannot penetrate it. If the Cherub checked _immediately_ before the Song went active, he'd only need a CD of 2 or more. The demon was there, confronting the attuned, working on the Song. (Depending on how long the demon'd been stalking the attuned, the Cherub could have picked up on that much earlier.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:55:38 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> How do demons figure these things out? There are so many things you can think of, if you're an angel, which you would rather your demonic opponents did not know. For example, say a party of demons and a party of angels meet in a dark alley. In the angelic party there is a Seraph of Michael (in command), a Cherub of Laurence, a Soldier of Laurence to whom the Cherub is attuned, and a Malakite of Stone. Before the, ahem, festivities start, the two groups eyeball each other to try to figure out an advantage. The demons know that the others are angels, but that's *all* they know. Now look at it from the demon's point of view: There are a few things that you will be able to figure out rather quickly, like who's in command. There will be other things that will become obvious, like the sudden loud noise which will clue you in when you hit the lone human in the group. But will you be able to figure out, for example, why shortly after you hit the human (if not earlier), the Cherub starts using your head to pound holes in the pavement? Or will you think it's a coincidence (which it may well be)? And will you be able to a) tell the Malakite from the Cherub if they're both big, mean and ugly, and b) deduce why this particular Malakite turned around and mooned you -- then when you tried to kick him, grabbed your foot and swung you into a wall? In other words, are there ways for demons to get useful information about angelic weaknesses, such as Cherub attunements, or just information about what choir they are facing? (Of course a fortunate Malakite can spot Balseraphs, and I can see Lilim being able to spot Malakim under the right circumstances, but the middle of a battle does not strike me as "the right circumstances" for most Lilim.) And what about Malakite oaths? Knowing them could give a demon a serious edge, but I can think of no attunement that can tell them this. (Come to think of it, a knowledge of the oaths of specific, identificable Malakim would make a fallen Servitor really valuable to Hell. Picture a Servitor who worked closely with a lot of Malakim -- a Seraph or a Cherub of Laurence or Michael -- who fell, and the amount of trouble he could cause.) Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:15:50 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Merc resonances Douglas Muir > >>I dunno -- the Mercurian of War attunement is arguably the most >>powerful Servitor attunement in the main rulebook, since it works >>automatically on any pair of characters the PC has ever met even in >>passing. > >Well, but the two have to be in conflict somehow. Can't make peace unless >there's some reason to... Demons are routinely in conflict in each other, and an angel that knows exactly how to make peace between them also has some pretty good leads on how to spur even-greater internal division. Divide and conquer, after all. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:44:39 +1100 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement Tim wrote: > About the essence detecting thing, those with humanity activated can't > regenerate it naturally but can still spend it, most of them > probably won't > be maxed out on essence when its in use so they probably don't have to > worry about that. I have to disagree with you on that. I don't know what reasoning you used, but I think it's faulty. By my reasoning, the average Servitor of the Game with Humanity will fill up on Essence before they invoke it, because they know that they can't regenerate Essence once the attunement is invoked. Once they invoke the attunement, they will absolutely *not* spend Essence, for 2 reasons: 1) Humans don't consciously spend Essence, so doing so will make a noise, and at best the demon will be able to explain itself as a Soldier, which brings up the question of "whose"? You don't go undercover and then wear your "I'm a Spy" badge; and 2) If you get in serious trouble, but don't want to completely blow your cover, you might just need that saved up Essence, so don't waste it. So by my thinking (I could be wrong), most users of Humanity will be close to full of Essence. On a related note, I think the Humanity attunement should be expanded to reduce the hit points of the demon, since his vessel is now akin to a human body. Otherwise, you have the same problem with Calabim of (Death?) as you do with Impudites of Technology. The Calabim can tell how huch it takes to kill something, and a human with that many hit points ain't natural. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:56:10 -0500 From: Dan Weaver Subject: IN> Laurence's Fight Song! I found this in Thomas Pynchon's novel _Mason & Dixon_. In the book it's sung by a Jesuit, but it's perfect for the Armies of God at large. Of course, this song is (c) 1997 to Pynchon. (appropriate musical intro - some horns and stuff would be very nice!) So,-- Have,-- A,-- 'Nother look,-- at the Army that Wrote the Book,-- take the Path that you Should've took-- and you'll be On your way! Get, up, and, wipe-off-that-chin, You can begin, to have a Whole new oth-er life,-- Soldj'ring for Christ, Reas'nably priced,-- And nobody's missing The Kids or th' Wife! So, Here's the Drill, Take the Quill, Sign upon the Line or any- Where you will, There's Heretics a-plenty and a License to kill, if you're a Brother in the S. of J.! (ba-da-bum) Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:03:27 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence's Fight Song! > I found this in Thomas Pynchon's novel _Mason & Dixon_. In the book > it's sung by a Jesuit, but it's perfect for the Armies of God at large. > Of course, this song is (c) 1997 to Pynchon. It wasn't until I scrolled back up to the top that I realized this wasn't the theme song for the Salvation Army. No idea how I misread that. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:08:49 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement At 11:44 AM +1100 12/1/99, Leath Sheales wrote: >On a related note, I think the Humanity attunement should be expanded to >reduce the hit points of the demon, since his vessel is now akin to a human >body. Otherwise, you have the same problem with Calabim of (Death?) as you >do with Impudites of Technology. The Calabim can tell how huch it takes to >kill something, and a human with that many hit points ain't natural. If I were to come up with mechanics for it, they'd read something like this: Using the Level of your vessel: ------------------------------ For Levels 1-2, you have no levels of Toughness For Levels 3-4, you have an equivelent Toughness of +1 For Levels 5-6, you have an equivelent Toughness of +2 Toughness (Corporeal Player's Guide, p. 27), is what humans have to make things a little more equal when going against a Celestial (who I've typically given Level/2 or 3 vessels to anyway) This would bring the hits _down_ some, but not enough to make the Gamester completely vunerable. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:32:39 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance At 05:51 PM 11/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >Other Choirs have different dissonance conditions. A Cherub cannot _betray_ >their charge -- and if you can find a place where a Cherub is _not_ betraying >his attuned by asking someone else to kill said charge... Cherub knows that his attuned has achieved his destiny. Cherub knows that his attuned /will/ meet his fate if he stays in the world. Attuned really, truly wants to die - would rather die and go to Heaven than stay on earth and risk being scattered to the winds. Cherub is too emotionally attached to the attuned to kill her, even though he /knows/ she'll go to Heaven. Does this work? - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:10:40 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Enough with the Smarmy Nitpicking! David Edelstein wrote: > > >>> > "Where's your Nitpicking Rite? Huh? Well? I'm waiting. . ." > };;;><<< > > OK, this whole "Demon Princess of Nitpicking" schtick was mildly amusing > at first, and if Elizabeth wants to keep playing that game, it's her > choice. But it is, IMO, getting out of hand, annoying, no longer funny, > and worse, being wielded like a club. Testify, brother, testify! Or in other words, I'm with David. The word 'Nitpicking' in a subject header is usually enough to get me to erase the post unread these days. How about we give it a rest for a bit, hmm? - -- Patrick O'Duffy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:00:11 -0500 From: Dan Weaver Subject: IN> The Harrowing of Hell I was reading some musings on Jesus in the INC and I started to think about this: In Dante's Inferno, Jesus takes the time He spends in Hell to round up all the souls who wouldn't have gone there if Heaven had been accessible at the time. Basically, for those who haven't read the book, the event had Jesus at the head of a giant Heavenly juggernaut rolling through Hell, snagging souls pretty much at will while chundering any demon that even considered getting in their way. Of course, the Inferno and its attendant orthodox Catholic mythology are contradicted by IN in many spots, so a Harrowing of Hell isn't necessary for the game. Still, it's a nifty idea, so here goes the Harrowing of Hell in IN terms... Jesus' Passion and crucifixion has to be one of the biggest Symphonic disruptions ever. Period. What with the religious fervor sweeping the Holy Land at the time and the general ruckus that had been going on since Palm Sunday, huge numbers of angels and devils must have been actively warring on the corporeal plane. The vessel of an aspect of God was betrayed, tortured, and killed by the Roman occupation forces in Palestine and the Sanhedrin, organizations no doubt filled full of demons. The Symphony was so badly damaged that the corporeal world, the physical manifestation of the Symphony, showed the effects of the disturbance - the darkness at noon is the most obvious result, the tearing of the curtain in the Temple is another. Christ dies about three in the afternoon and the Dissonance bomb goes off. What are the effects going to be? Obviously every Celestial on Earth is going to go reeling from the shock wave, and the effects will across the Ethereal and Celestial planes as well. Since these planes are far more tightly linked to the pure Symphony than the Corporeal, what manifests as darkness at noon in Palestine will appear to be the end of the universe in Hell. Undoubtedly Hell thinks that the execution of Christ pushed it that little bit too far and that the first few million Malakim will be arriving shortly. Chaos ensues. Of course, with all this chaos, nobody's around to notice the angelic army led by Christ (somehow shielded from the nasty Dissonance effects of Christ's death, probably through foreknowledge or Divine Intervention) that lands at the borders of Hell and proceeds to redeem a wide swath through the infernal realms. This particular host isn't out for demonic blood but for 'damned' human souls, and they grab every last one in their path. After three days of causing a Hellish ruckus, the demons recover from the effects of Christ's death enough to start to think about mounting some resistance. Acknowledging that the party is over, the angels high-tail it up to Heaven with huge amounts of combat experience against the Horde, in-depth knowledge of Infernal geography, and most importantly millions of human souls redeemed through the force of the sword. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:26:57 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Wilmoth Subject: Re: IN> PBEM/Bored over Christmas [An attempt to 'place hold' and express my interest until I can finish movine into my new place and get to my IN book.] "Yes. Entirely a mistake." "I had... power, yes. Not relevant. It was necessary. My Word was all; a certain breadth was required, certain latitude. One cannot destroy the ecosphere without a certain amount of latitude." "It was beautiful. Breathtakingly... peaceful. Quiet. The culmination of God's work. Perfection incarnate. "And they took it all. Again.. .and again... and again. Remaking the world worse each time the glaciers I had lovingly carved were commanded by those of limited vision to recede. They, naturally, cannot hear billions of perfectly formed crystals melting, dying, with clear perfect crystal shrieks of agony. "The irony amuses me too, Lightbringer, yes. What do the- humans, they're called, yes? I seem to remember them grunting and having sex at some point between the Ages- what do they say? 'A snowball's chance in Hell.' "I would like to try my chances here, Lucifer. Make your promises- tell me I will have my eternal Ice Age, dominion over the earth, as you so easily promised Him when he walked the world. "Yes. I will give you whatever you wish of me, if you give me a chance to show my loyalty. "A chance in Hell-" J'KAL: formerly HARTH, Angel of Ice. Upon his presentation. - -Ronnie Simonds ronrab@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:42:43 -0600 (CST) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Humanity Attunement in the Celestial Realms Is the Humanity Attunement limited only to the Corporeal Realm or could a Gamester use it to pose as a Damned Soul? If the later is possible, you could run some interesting undercover sting operations in Hell. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:16:00 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> PBEM/Bored over Christmas >J'KAL: formerly HARTH, Angel of Ice. Upon his presentation. Neat. Elohite, right? It seems like a very Elo Word... Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:28:06 -0600 From: "Trent" Subject: RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement "Since it masks enough to leave only clues that their not actually human you can't instantly assume that every cute little girl that has 10 essence and can take 100 some body hits is a demon of the game. It just means that what ever she is it ain't a normal human." Or if you feel like really freaking your group out try this - she is totally normal. Not Grig-kin not undead not a saint and defiantly no angel/demon. Then watch the confusion. Trent Ofanite of Doubt ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1439 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.