From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Mar 9 13:26:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA32520 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:26:58 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA13407 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:15:16 -0600 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:15:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199903091915.NAA13407@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1139 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, March 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1139 In this digest: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Re: IN> Re: The Nature of Evil Re: IN> Lilim Re: IN> FoTM: Asmodeus' Angel Spotters??? Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Re: IN> Lilim Re: IN> Lilim Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Re: IN> Lilim RE: IN> Lilim and Marc IN> EARN BIG $$$ On Your Upline & Downline! Re: IN> Vurt, FotM, the Kitchen Sink Re: IN> Vurt, FotM, the Kitchen Sink Re: IN> Lilim and Marc RE: IN> Lilim and Marc RE: IN> Lilim and Marc Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Re: IN> Lilim and Marc RE: IN> Lilim and Marc RE: IN> Lilim and Marc Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Re: IN> Lilim and Marc Re: IN> Lilim and Marc Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Re: IN> Lilim Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 21:07:42 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > from 1-6points of dissonance[1]? yeah, it's painful, but were i a > Bright Lilim i'd refuse a Demon Prince any Geas it attempted to have me > carry out were i to judge the results to be against the goals of Heaven or > the resultant loss of human life too great, and if the DP didn't vessel- > kill me itself, i'd willingly vessel-kill myself, suffer Trauma, wake up > in Heaven less one Geas, aching with dissonance, and tell my Archangel > exactly what happened. to presume that an Archangel would not strip the > dissonance from a Bright Lilim for such an event requires one to further > suppose the hierarchy of Heaven is hellbent on stupidity. > [1] my rememberance of Lilim dissonance conditions/results isn't 100%. Geas dissonance happens every time-period you fail to carry out the Geas or every single time you disobey a "do not" condition; the former type of dissonance vanishes when you fulfill the geas, and the latter doesn't. Our campaign has a house rule that if a Geased character takes actions which make a geas significantly harder to fulfill, you take dissonance every time you do *that* -- but said dissonance *does* vanish when you fulfill the geas. If a geas vanishes because it becomes impossible to fulfill, the Lilim takes a note of dissonance and every point of dissonance she'd already incurred on the geas becomes permanent. So if you successfully make a geas on you impossible to accomplish, our house rule has it that you take a minimum of two points of dissonance: one for making it more difficult, one because the geas can never be fulfilled. All that aside, you *don't* Fall/take Discord because of a geas, because you never make a dissonance roll; you just accumulate dissonance which makes it more likely you will Fall/take Discord if you ever accumulate Dissonance from anything *else*. One common house rule (thankfully *not* in our campaign) is that Lilim are so tied to geasa that they have a much harder time breaking them than other celestials do. It's not that they take any more dissonance from breaking a geas, or incur any other objective consequences, it's that they find it harder and more painful to do so. And, yes, unless that house rule becomes canon it was pretty dumb of Mira to obey the geas instead of eating Dissonance and telling Blandine everything; Blandine would have broken the artifact and made the geas impossible and therefore gone, and then removed the dissonance the geas had caused. Incidentally, the *Lilim* dissonance condition is having someone else successfully resist a geas you try to place on them from having fulfilled a need. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 06:46:01 +0300 From: "Tick Tock" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Nature of Evil From: Benjamin Acosta >Kodos in In Nomine be considered Hell Fodder who met his fate, an >unselfish man who met his destiny (if I remember it right he did ensue the >other colonists survive until help came, and taking the emotional pain the >decision caused him seems unselfish), or does he get another spin at the >wheel? A minor correction: Kodos' actions would have ensured the survival of a percentage of the colony -if- the supply ships had been on time. The supply ships actually arrived three months early and therefore the extreme actions were not nessesary. Not that any one knew the supply ships were going to arrive early. I believe he actuallys states that his (Kodos) action would have made him a hero if the supply ships hadn't arrived. Kirk counters that they did arrive and thus his actions were monstrous. Tenous reasoning on Kirk's part but he had a personal axe to grind with the guy believing him to be responsible for the death of his(Kirk's) friend. If Kodos had stayed around to defend himself after the supply ships had arrived then perhaps it would have turned out differently or at least the healing could have begun. Instead, he took off for parts unknown and hid away for twenty years. His actions eventually cost the sanity of his daughter and damaged alot of people along the way. ... time waits for one man .... ... if he is willing to pay the price ... TickTock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:07:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim At 7:37 PM -0500 3/8/99, Kim Foster wrote: >I've problably just blundered in my reading of the Lilim geas ability, but I >felt it was more random than seems to be the case. The Need perecived might >be anything from trivial to major depending on the roll. They can take >penalty to get something more specific. But from some recent comments on the >list, it seems that it is much more precise than I've been running it. Have >I been accidentlly shafting my Lilim players? Well, without examples... Basically, yes, it's pretty random if they don't specify. A successful resonance roll gets them a Need from the class the Check Digit indicates. (Something that would take the person a year to do for himself is a CD 6, etc.) Some people non-canonically give a list of "level 1 through the number actually rolled" needs -- that works nicely in the Fiat Justitia game, for instance. Some GMs tend to give what needs are on the person's mind, or the ones which are strongest. (This is where you get Malakim oaths as Needs...) If you have a high Perception, though, you can take those penalties a bit easier. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:05:49 +0300 From: "Tick Tock" Subject: Re: IN> FoTM: Asmodeus' Angel Spotters??? From: Emily Dresner >> (Of course, that does assume that Lilim psychology is simply *so* biased >> towards fulfilling Geases that their brains just turn off. Though a >> Bright has more to lose from dissonance than a dark one -- she can, >> after all, Fall again.) > >I've always played it that way, more or less. The Lilim gets a geased >called in, and it submurges her consciousness. Depending on how big the >geas is is how much of her is actually in control. A small, level-1 geas >will put a small dent in the Lilim's psyche, a level-6 will make her into >an automaton. Automaton? Does this not seriously degrade the effectiveness of the Geas by leaving it's fulfillment in the hands a talking green barbie doll with horms? I would think that the freedom oriented nature of the Lilim would make more of them decide against service to a DP or AA knowing that they -will- be turned into a Barbie for the duration of the Geas. If the Lilim is more consciously in control then the wording of the Geas better be airtight or you're gonna get what you asked for, not necessarily what you wanted. And the additional controls (worded into the Geas) to ensure you get exactly what you want in going to drive up the (Geas) cost of the action. Which would seem to be more in line with nature of the Lilim bargain. ... time waits for one man .... ... if he is willing to pay the price ... TickTock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:22:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict At 6:51 PM -0800 3/8/99, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > [snip quotes and hypotheticals] >> (Of course, that does assume that Lilim psychology is simply *so* biased >> towards fulfilling Geases that their brains just turn off. Though a > suffering dissonance is painful, but i think any intelligent >Bright would willingly do so in order to dissolve a Geas [...] >would willingly cleanse said Bright of the dissonance she >suffered for nullifying that Geas. Unless she Fell first. And, really, if you presume that their little brains turn off to some extent, then maybe she'll just be trying to weasle the wording of the Geas so she doesn't hurt too *many* people... >> Bright has more to lose from dissonance than a dark one -- she can, >> after all, Fall again.) > from 1-6points of dissonance[1]? A Geas never stops causing dissonance until it's either fulfilled, or rendered *impossible* to fulfill. (Yes, a Geas/1 can kill a human.) >yeah, it's painful, but were i a >Bright Lilim i'd refuse a Demon Prince any Geas it attempted to have me >carry out were i to judge the results to be against the goals of Heaven or >the resultant loss of human life too great, and if the DP didn't vessel- >kill me itself, i'd willingly vessel-kill myself, suffer Trauma, wake up >in Heaven less one Geas, It won't be less one Geas -- unless it's become *impossible* for you to fulfill it. (I.e., if someone else blows up Notre Dame before you do, the Geas to do so vanishes, after inflicting one final note of dissonance. So you then get to carry around however many notes... And make your dissonance roll....) And Geases are nasty. You'll collect dissonance in Trauma... Of course, a Lilim could choose to accept the dissonance -- but dissonance is at least as bad as Trauma. It's like asking a Seraph to lie, or an Elohite to act emotionally, or a Mercurian to punch out a human. Resisting a Geas *goes against a Lilim's nature*. It's a pain that tears at the soul, a torture that goes beyond the vessel or even celestial combat. For a Bright, each dissonant note drowns out a little of the True Symphony... Is it any wonder they fear it? It's a little taste of Falling, of returning to the solitary symphony inside their own minds that was all they knew from the moment of their creation. After being blind, finally they can see; after being deaf, finally they can hear. Except each note of dissonace fuzzes that... Wouldn't you panic a little too, feeling your sight dimming, your ears dulling? >> screamed, "You *****, you put me in Geas-conflict with an Archangel!" >> Which wasn't the smartest thing to reveal, but she was in Geas-conflict...] > probably not, but it sounds like a bundle of fun. which >Archangel, btw? Jean, as it happened. (She ran into a Creationer Elohite in service to Lightning, who tagged her as a "potential redemption candidate, if it weren't for those 9 years of Geases she's carrying." Jean bought a year-Geas from Lilith. Pretty cheaply, actually.) And no, she's not redeemed yet. Even though she cares for that rotten, ruthless, manipulative little space alien Elohite. O;> [For those who want to know, this was the Feast of Blades adventure, and her Renegade sister had used a Band Attunement to blackmail her (CD 6!) -- because the PC Lilim was effectively Renegade herself and no demons knew. Urilebana courted dissonance until the goal got semi-impossible and then she and her angel-buddies cornered her sister, which is when the comment got made.] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:20:46 -0500 From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> Lilim >Well, without examples... Basically, yes, it's pretty random if they >don't specify. A successful resonance roll gets them a Need from >the class the Check Digit indicates. (Something that would take the >person a year to do for himself is a CD 6, etc.) Thank you for the quick answer! > >Some people non-canonically give a list of "level 1 through the >number actually rolled" needs -- that works nicely in the Fiat >Justitia game, for instance. That hasn't made the Resonance too powerful? I've found with clever players the Lilim Need perception and Geas power to be pretty potent. How has this house rule affected gameplay and what was the reason for its implementation? If thats not been really nosy. > >Some GMs tend to give what needs are on the person's mind, or >the ones which are strongest. (This is where you get Malakim >oaths as Needs...) I try to do this. I've also been playing with the idea that Lilim that serve a Word tend to get needs that cater to thier word. Lust Lilm get more sexual/lust needs, Media cravings for attentions/stardom, that sort of thing. What do people think of that idea? Email Address change:Please update to the following: nexus@uky.campuscwix.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:38:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim At 11:20 PM -0500 3/8/99, Kim Foster wrote: >Thank you for the quick answer! De nada. >>Some people non-canonically give a list of "level 1 through the >>number actually rolled" needs -- that works nicely in the Fiat >>Justitia game, for instance. > >That hasn't made the Resonance too powerful? I've found with clever players >the Lilim Need perception and Geas power to be pretty potent. How has this >house rule affected gameplay and what was the reason for its implementation? >If tha'ts not been really nosy. You'd have to ask Maya (the GM) why she chose that (I think it "just happened" when PCs were being resonated on by the local PC Lilim.) You can see how it affected the game by going to... http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html (There are several Lilim in that -- it's the Lilim networking thing. Where you have one Lilim, you tend to get others dropping by to catch up on the gossip and stuff.) >>Some GMs tend to give what needs are on the person's mind, or >>the ones which are strongest. (This is where you get Malakim >>oaths as Needs...) > >I try to do this. I've also been playing with the idea that Lilim that serve >a Word tend to get needs that cater to thier word. Lust Lilm get more >sexual/lust needs, Media cravings for attentions/stardom, that sort of >thing. What do people think of that idea? (It's certainly something *I'd* strongly consider doing -- and Brights would tend to get *needs* more than just desires...) >Email Address change:Please update to the following: >nexus@uky.campuscwix.net (Do you need me to do this as the List Admin, or is it just a general .sig?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 17:45:25 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict >A Geas never stops causing dissonance until it's either fulfilled, >or rendered *impossible* to fulfill. (Yes, a Geas/1 can kill a human.) > I have a question, if the damage from a Geas kills a human does it make noise? Ben, COD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 06:11:59 -0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim >>Some people non-canonically give a list of "level 1 through the >>number actually rolled" needs -- that works nicely in the Fiat >>Justitia game, for instance. > >That hasn't made the Resonance too powerful? I've found with clever players >the Lilim Need perception and Geas power to be pretty potent. How has this >house rule affected gameplay and what was the reason for its implementation? It seems to give the lilim a lot of useful information, for no work. My experience is that when you play by the book rules, the lilim player complained that his resonance was way less useful than the angels (compare what a lilim gets on a CD1 with what a Mercurian or Malakite gets). OTOH, maybe he was just a moaner, and even when e saw higher level needs, his character was too lazy to go out and try to fill them ;) I stayed with the book rendition. I actually suspect that the outcome of giving the player more information about needs _is_ that they are less motivated to fill any of them, because they can just use the resonance for information purposes, and that alone is still useful. If they are only picking up a single need and have to know more, then it makes more sense for them to try to fill that need and then geas the subject for information. (ie. it makes life easier for the Lilim, enough that often it won't bother trying to fill the needs). >I try to do this. I've also been playing with the idea that Lilim that serve >a Word tend to get needs that cater to thier word. Lust Lilm get more >sexual/lust needs, Media cravings for attentions/stardom, that sort of >thing. What do people think of that idea? > I like that a lot :) What do you think free lilim get? I'd also been assuming that demonic lilim will tend to get selfish needs. jo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:52:14 +0100 (CET) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: RE: IN> Lilim and Marc On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Steven Feldon (Exchange) wrote: > This is showing that I come from a line of business where you sell a large > number of low-priced units in a low-overhead environment; I was assuming > that overhead was so minimal that it could easily be absorbed by the first > few hundred transactions and leave the rest to be a Rite a day for several > Trade angels--a used book store with moderately high prices could handle > generating Essence for quite a number of angels. > > Your statistics do validate my point, even if you're quite right that I was > all over the place with my terminology. It's not _impossible_ or even > unlikely to make 100% profit; it just requires the right business, good > management, and a combination of good prices, good service, and reliable > ethics. All of which would please Marc. OTOH, I'm not sure how pleased Marc would be with his angels running used book stores... I think there should be more important things for them to do, like fighting the War. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! A discordian is anyone willing to look at the windmills and concede that they might be giants. - Principia Discordia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 05:50:57 EST From: JCh7649460@aol.com Subject: IN> EARN BIG $$$ On Your Upline & Downline! EARN BIG $$$ On Your Upline & Downline! The Comp Plan with a TWIST I made $4,307 in my first 3 days in such a program. More $ paid to the downline instead of the upline? Toll-Free Voice Brochure & FOD BIZ Building System STEP 1: Listen toToll-Free 3 min. Voice Brochure & FOD: 800-607-6006 box 2666# PS: You Are On Your Way ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 14:14:19 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Vurt, FotM, the Kitchen Sink On Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 07:17:53PM -0500, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>No, they're not going to get everyone. But they don't have to get > everyone immediately. They just have to get *enough* people...<<< > > 10,000 people every hour....how many Servitors can Asmodeus station at the > airport? If the angels use any sense at all, they'll send someone who > doesn't have anything that will be a telltale giveaway (like dissonance, or > coming straight from San Francisco, or being a Malakite radiating a Need to > Kill Demons). I keep thinking that if I were an angel trying this sort of stunt I would consider wearing sunglasses to get away from sneaking Lilim. Of course that might draw other attention, depending on the weather. I'd say it would be incredible luck for the demons to catch > an angel passing by right under their noses. > Indeed. I was playing FotM, and it seemed that the take that was being taken was that there was no real prospect of being found when we got in, but anything we wanted to do would have to be done quickly and quietly, or we'd be in trouble, and the resident angels were effectively hostages. We (as players) could presume that Max et al being public was worth the risk because we didn't know what their assignments were. That take on it worked reasonably well, and indeed Mithredath cooperated with Kevin on one occasion because of this. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "With such tripe masses of human beings were tranquilised - until those rare occasions when they woke up, saw what was happening around them, misunderstood it, and did their best to impose the stupidest possible solution on the men who normally led them." A Dark and Hungry God Arises, by Stephen Donaldson. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:28:46 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Vurt, FotM, the Kitchen Sink > I keep thinking that if I were an angel trying this sort of stunt I would > consider wearing sunglasses to get away from sneaking Lilim. Of course > that might draw other attention, depending on the weather. Sunglasses? In LA? NEVER. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:34:09 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Marc Elizabeth Bartley wrote: > You're confusing markup and profit. You think Derek *wasn't* confusing markup and profit? (I have no evidence that he made that particular confusion, but it seems a subtlety rather above the level of the quick write-ups in the main book.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:48:02 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: RE: IN> Lilim and Marc >On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Steven Feldon (Exchange) wrote: > >OTOH, I'm not sure how pleased Marc would be with his angels running used >book stores... I think there should be more important things for them to >do, like fighting the War. 'Cept that the whole she-bang is about -Humanity-. A used book store can be a great place for a Servitor of Marc to work on winning humans over in 'The War'. Especially since then it's possible to move them closer to their Destiny. . . Think about it. *grin* Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Granduer * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:20:41 +0100 (CET) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: RE: IN> Lilim and Marc On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Shadowstar wrote: > >On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Steven Feldon (Exchange) wrote: > > > >OTOH, I'm not sure how pleased Marc would be with his angels running used > >book stores... I think there should be more important things for them to > >do, like fighting the War. > > 'Cept that the whole she-bang is about -Humanity-. A used book store > can be a great place for a Servitor of Marc to work on winning humans over > in 'The War'. Especially since then it's possible to move them closer to > their Destiny. . . But Destiny isn't Marc's province. He wants to promote Trade. A used bookstore might be a suitable place for that, though I would rather think he puts a human servitor to run it. Having an angel sitting around fiddling with old books doesn't seem like an optimal use of resources. OTOH, if the store is a Tether things are quite different. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! A discordian is anyone willing to look at the windmills and concede that they might be giants. - Principia Discordia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:55:40 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict At 5:45 PM -0500 3/8/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >>A Geas never stops causing dissonance until it's either fulfilled, >>or rendered *impossible* to fulfill. (Yes, a Geas/1 can kill a human.) > >I have a question, if the damage from a Geas kills a human does it make >noise? I'd say yes. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 10:43:59 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Marc Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > Having an angel sitting around fiddling with old books doesn't seem > like an optimal use of resources. OTOH, if the store is a Tether > things are quite different. :) Things are also quite different depending on the kind of books being bought and sold -- the obvious tomes of arcana, or fabulously valuable incunabula, or role-playing games that encode the secrets of Heaven and Hell... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:52:48 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: RE: IN> Lilim and Marc >>On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Steven Feldon (Exchange) wrote: >> >>OTOH, I'm not sure how pleased Marc would be with his angels running used >>book stores... I think there should be more important things for them to >>do, like fighting the War. > > 'Cept that the whole she-bang is about -Humanity-. A used book store >can be a great place for a Servitor of Marc to work on winning humans over >in 'The War'. Especially since then it's possible to move them closer to >their Destiny. . . > > Think about it. *grin* > Nybbas uses television to kill the soul and promote selfishness. Marc could *very* easily use a used book store to promote openness, selflessness and the spread of idea and the promotion of the soul. It seems a natural battleground for the War, to me. And it's a *great* way to keep the Essence cash register ringing. Take in a book for a quarter, sell it for fifty cents... take in a hardcover for three bucks, sell it for six.... Even factoring in employees, rent, power and cat food (all used bookstores have cats), you're looking at honorable 100% profit on a regular basis.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:01:15 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: RE: IN> Lilim and Marc >On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Shadowstar wrote: > >> >On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Steven Feldon (Exchange) wrote: >> > >> >OTOH, I'm not sure how pleased Marc would be with his angels running used >> >book stores... I think there should be more important things for them to >> >do, like fighting the War. >> >> 'Cept that the whole she-bang is about -Humanity-. A used book store >> can be a great place for a Servitor of Marc to work on winning humans over >> in 'The War'. Especially since then it's possible to move them closer to >> their Destiny. . . > >But Destiny isn't Marc's province. He wants to promote Trade. A used >bookstore might be a suitable place for that, though I would rather think >he puts a human servitor to run it. Having an angel sitting around >fiddling with old books doesn't seem like an optimal use of resources. >OTOH, if the store is a Tether things are quite different. :) > Ah, but a Mercurian of Trade in a used bookstore gets an opportunity to touch hundreds of lives on a daily basis, promote Angelic ideas, almost never has to resort to any violence to resolve issues, and has an innocuous Role that also allows him to travel almost anywhere to perform research "looking for rare books." And the demons on the other side of the street, while they might promote Superstores to drive the independents out of business (Nybbas will be doing a reading at Borders this weekend, I hear) wouldn't be much interested in taking on a 'used' angel like that. And Destiny is the province of every Angel and Archangel. They *win* the War if humanity achieves its Destiny. They lose if it achieves its Fate. Furthermore, used bookstores and libraries work hand in hand, ideally, with both sides benefitting. And Marc is one who has a vested interest in promoting others' words, since Quid Pro Quo.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:02:31 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict >At 5:45 PM -0500 3/8/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >>>A Geas never stops causing dissonance until it's either fulfilled, >>>or rendered *impossible* to fulfill. (Yes, a Geas/1 can kill a human.) >> >>I have a question, if the damage from a Geas kills a human does it make >>noise? > >I'd say yes. > If a human is Geased to cut down a tree in the woods and it falls and kills him, does he make a sound? (Meant as a joke, until I realized I really don't know the IN answer.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:40:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict At 11:02 AM -0500 3/9/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >>At 5:45 PM -0500 3/8/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >>>>A Geas never stops causing dissonance until it's either fulfilled, >>>>or rendered *impossible* to fulfill. (Yes, a Geas/1 can kill a human.) >>> >>>I have a question, if the damage from a Geas kills a human does it make >>>noise? >> >>I'd say yes. >> > >If a human is Geased to cut down a tree in the woods and it falls and kills >him, does he make a sound? > >(Meant as a joke, until I realized I really don't know the IN answer.) Heh. No, it doesn't make disturbance if he did it himself. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 10:56:12 -0600 From: Don Durham Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict At 11:40 AM 3/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:02 AM -0500 3/9/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >>>At 5:45 PM -0500 3/8/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >>>>>A Geas never stops causing dissonance until it's either fulfilled, >>>>>or rendered *impossible* to fulfill. (Yes, a Geas/1 can kill a human.) >>>> >>>>I have a question, if the damage from a Geas kills a human does it make >>>>noise? >>> >>>I'd say yes. >>> >> >>If a human is Geased to cut down a tree in the woods and it falls and kills >>him, does he make a sound? >> >>(Meant as a joke, until I realized I really don't know the IN answer.) > >Heh. No, it doesn't make disturbance if he did it himself. > > Sounds like a great way to both kill someone without an accomplice and be far, far away when it happens. Don arthurd@io.com Looking to buy/sell/trade a Gurps Book? Try: http://www.io.com/~arthurd/gurps_files/oop Looking for a game or players? Try: http://www.io.com/~arthurd/gurps_files/gamer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:53:30 +0300 From: "Tick Tock" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Marc - -----Original Message----- From: Anders Gabrielsson >> >On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Steven Feldon (Exchange) wrote: >> > >> >OTOH, I'm not sure how pleased Marc would be with his angels running used >>>book stores... I think there should be more important things for them to >> >do, like fighting the War. >> >> 'Cept that the whole she-bang is about -Humanity-. A used book store >> can be a great place for a Servitor of Marc to work on winning humans over >> in 'The War'. Especially since then it's possible to move them closer to >> their Destiny. . . > >But Destiny isn't Marc's province. He wants to promote Trade. A used >bookstore might be a suitable place for that, though I would rather think >he puts a human servitor to run it. Having an angel sitting around >fiddling with old books doesn't seem like an optimal use of resources. >OTOH, if the store is a Tether things are quite different. :) How about a safe house instead? With an angel collecting the essence and passing it on to a the needy host. Provided it's not overused. Perhaps with a human behind the cash register and Kyrio cats wander amidst the shelves? ... time waits for one man .... ... if he is willing to pay the price ... TickTock ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:16:33 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Marc On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Earl Wajenberg wrote: [Marc's 100% profit Rite] > You think Derek *wasn't* confusing markup and profit? > (I have no evidence that he made that particular confusion, > but it seems a subtlety rather above the level of the > quick write-ups in the main book.) The Rite *has* to be making 100% profit rather than selling an object for a 100% markup, because you can easily lose money on something that you're selling for a 100% markup and that's just bad business. Marc won't give you a Rite for losing money. Now, exactly how you define a 100% profit is beyond the scope of the quick writeup and probably of interest to few people besides me. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 12:25:55 -0600 From: Eeyore Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >If a human is Geased to cut down a tree in the woods and it falls and kills > >him, does he make a sound? > > > >(Meant as a joke, until I realized I really don't know the IN answer.) > > Heh. No, it doesn't make disturbance if he did it himself. OK, as long as we're asking convoluted theoretical questions, what if the Lilim rigs the tree such that it is likely to fall on top of the guy she geased into cutting it down? J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:26:29 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict At 12:25 PM -0600 3/9/99, Eeyore wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> >If a human is Geased to cut down a tree in the woods and it falls and kills >> >him, does he make a sound? >> > >> >(Meant as a joke, until I realized I really don't know the IN answer.) >> >> Heh. No, it doesn't make disturbance if he did it himself. > >OK, as long as we're asking convoluted theoretical questions, what if the Lilim >rigs the tree such that it is likely to fall on top of the guy she geased into >cutting it down? If she altered it so that it was *likely* to kill him, then that's celestial interference in the corporeal realm, and makes disturbance as it falls (and the trunk starts taking hits of damage *from that interference*) and if it kills him. The GM wings how much damage is from her meddling and how much from the human's. So if you want to kill someone with Geases soundlessly, you Geas one guy to booby-trap the tree, and another to chop it down (and have it land on him). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:41:02 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > So if you want to kill someone with Geases soundlessly, you Geas one > guy to booby-trap the tree, and another to chop it down (and have > it land on him). Wouldn't it be simpler to just Geas person A to shoot person B? I wouldn't expect that to cause noise since ordering a Soldier to shoot another human doesn't. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:00:55 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Lilim On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Kim Foster wrote: > >Some GMs tend to give what needs are on the person's mind, or > >the ones which are strongest. (This is where you get Malakim > >oaths as Needs...) > I try to do this. I've also been playing with the idea that Lilim that serve > a Word tend to get needs that cater to thier word. Lust Lilm get more > sexual/lust needs, Media cravings for attentions/stardom, that sort of > thing. What do people think of that idea? I like it. We do something similar, though stronger with Lilim who have their own Words than those who serve another's. We also have the Needs filter through the Lilim's own personality. You see, the way it works in our game is that the Lilim temporarily makes a little part of [that person's Symphony / that person's portion of *the* Symphony] part of the Lilim's own *personal* Symphony. And if the Lilim fulfills a Need she'll have a hook in that part of [the person's Symphony / his portion of the Symphony] which she can use as desired. And because Lilim are listening to their own Symphony simultaneously, the Needs she hears can be a little twisted -- never so far that fulfilling what she hears won't fulfill the Need, but the Lilim may supply some details that weren't really there. For example, a Lilim who likes mocha may hear a Need for mocha where the target really wants 'a cup of good coffee with some sugar to give me the extra kick.' Mocha will do just fine, but so would good generic coffee with two lumps of sugar. Incidentally, in our campaign we play that a Lilim hears a number of Needs equal to her check digit, and the Needs tend to be uppermost in her target's mind but can be of any level, *unless* the Lilim gets a check digit of 6, in which she gets all the Needs. We've found that this works well; sure, sometimes you get a major Need on a one check digit, but sometimes you really *wanted* a minor Need that you're more likely to be able to fulfill in a hurry. My Lilim's more the sort to make bargains, see that they're phrased as promises, and exact specific geasa as per the expanded Liilm resonance. Oh, she collects general geasa, but rarely gets a generic geas on a specific person knowing that she wants him to do something specific. You get more repeat customers if they're not angry at you. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 14:11:27 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > I'd say yes. The objection that was aired last night when we were discussing this (Ben, Perry, myself, and some other members of our gaming collective, that is) was that if a human is taking damage from not fulfilling a Geas, he's probably (barring intervention) doing it of his own free will, which implies that he's choosing to inflict the damage upon himself. On the other hand, it's still supernaturally-inflicted damage. Another interesting question: If a Geas is _effectively_ impossible to fulfill, does the Geas continue to do damage? To give an example: Joan the Lilim asks Ed the shoe salesman to break into a store and steal at least $100 worth of merchandise, after doing him an equivalent favor. Ed manages to break into the store but is caught and imprisoned. He has not fulfilled the Geas - nothing got stolen - but is imprisoned, and so is unable to fulfill the Geas. Does Ed take damage from the Geas while he's in prison? - -EDG - -- EDG, Mercurian of Jean, Angel of Information Dissemination anthoch@earlham.edu 159.28.165.120 "I never trust anybody who can't lie." - Caitlin ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1139 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.