From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Mar 13 15:12:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27958 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:12:10 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA10362 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:10:53 -0600 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:10:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199903132110.PAA10362@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1151 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, March 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1151 In this digest: Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) Re: IN> [ADMIN] Re: Lilim again (longish) IN> Re: The Devil Went Down to Georgia IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? IN> shelf life IN> Dark Humor IN> Lilim again (longish) Re: IN> Dark Humor IN> First time inside. IN> IN london RE: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:01:55 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) Martin Arnold wrote on 12 March 1999 >That's not right, the Lilim rez is evil. It's evil because it's selfish >and God has decreed that selfishness is evil; or perhaps more >accurately, evil is selfishness. Remember: "Evil is Selfishness" does not suggest "Selfishness is Evil". Anyway I wouldn't agree with any of the above. 1 in IN God doesn't declare what is good and what is evil (very often) which is one of the cool things about the game. 2 Again the Resonance isn't inherently selfish. Actually before I carry on talking about Selfishness: What do you take "Selfishness" to mean? Because we seem to be using the same word to mean to different things (This isn't a dig if it sounds like one, or even if it doesn't) >Lucifer was selfish in following his >own heart and rebelling; Or if you ask some "Acting in the best interests of the Symphony", and in some IN games God is not good and Lucifers actions can be explained in a number of ways except acting for Lucifers own self interest (oops I'm talking about the word selfish) >those who follow him are also selfish. Or dedicated to a (very wrong) cause. >Lilith >was selfish because she disobeyed God as well. I think the point about "selflessness <> being a doormat" come in here. >But that's not really >relevant; D'oh, I shouldn't have bothered commenting on it then! >the Lilim rez is selfish for the simple reason that it works >solely for it's own benefit. Not neccessarily. > >It's as simple as that. That's what I don't understand how a Bright >Lilim can maintain the same rez. To my mind the Bright Lilim archetype >need to be reworked. There's potential in the idea. > >Whistling in the dark: "To my mind, the Lilim resonance is a gift (the >only one Lilith doesn't make them pay for, since they pay for all their >Forces) given so that no one can abuse them" > >I doubt that Lilith is so generous. And we all know she definitely gets >something in return. > >"But to redeem, they have to overcome all that they know, and accept >that there might be something better than Looking Out For Number One" > >And yet, with the rez unchanged, they can't think that. I mean you don't >get redeemed Calabim with their resonance intatc, they revert to Ofanim >resonance. This makes sense, but the Lilim one doesn't. Lilim are very human - when humans switch sides in a War all that happens is that they point their guns in a different direction. >"There are Malakim who would disagree. Break your word to one of them >and he might be perfectly willing to do nasty celestial things to you." > >He might, but he isn't bound by his very nature to do so. Nor are Lilim. >He night want >to, but that's only because Malakim are portrayed in this rather 2-D >way. To be honest I think you're using a rather 2-D portrayal of Lilim in this discussion. >Surely, even with their honourable natures, even they could see >(with the benefit of corporeal experience) that life just aint like >that! But even so, breaking your word to a Malakite is scary but it >doesn't cause you soul damage as a result. A geas does. Beside you don't >know tat such things exist now do you! ;-) Right so If I break an agreement with someone who looks like a cripple, and they happen not to be a cripple and kick my dishonourably butt, then because they didn't tell me "I can kick you're downy butt if you don't keep you're word" (and make me believe me they can) then that somehow doesn't make me in the wrong? >"If I sign a contract with someone and fail to meet my end of it, the >other side invokes the Geas they're capable of" > >But that 'Geas' isn't the same thing at all. What you are referring to, >a lawsuit for instance, is a man-0made construct. It's not pat of your >nature is it. It isn't a celestial power created by infernal forces. Put >it another way; you don't necessarily make a contract with me just for >your own end. To be honest I think contracts I enter I would only enter for my own good (or in the distant realms of possibility for the good of those I care for), why else would I sign a contract? >That's the Lilim mindset, fulfil someone's need because it >allows you dominion over them. Ahh so what's you're opinion of say Kyrios. In a lesser form all the other angels have dominion over the targets because knowledge is power. >Now does that sound selfless? Is a gun evil? >As I said >before, if Lilim could not inflict geas as part of her rez, only read a >need, she would be a totally different creature. What if she simply choose not to use hooks. What makes Brights good is not the rez they use, but the manner in which they use it. >She wouldn't be >motivated to do things simply because it gave her power over them. No, she is motivated by no longer being isolated from the Symphony, not being the only one who is important, but being a part of the most beautiful artwork The Symphony and because she now realises other people are important (and not just from the scratch my back and you scratch mine view, but from the view of "Hey, you take pleasure from me scratching you're back. Cool!"). >"In Celestial Terms, a Lilim's contract is Enforced. You accept her >service, you pay it back. Or else." > >But you aren't entering into a contract with a Lilim are you. She >doesn't tell you at the time what she wants she just walks off with a >knowing grin! She doesn't even tell you that you will have to return the >favour either! She doesn't have to because that's how the mechanics >work. Now a Bright might just tell you, but even she couldn't tell you >the whole truth because it would breach the 'Masquerade' (tm)! I don't >recall it saying anywhere that that's what BL's do anyway! > >And anyway, maybe contracts are selfish! The jury's still out on that >one - at least for me! > >"If she tricks you into it... no one said life was fair." > >Apart from the angels, who would like life to be fair. Fair means gfood! No fair, means nice. David doesn't want the Symphony to be like Novalis's Cathedral, rather the exact opposite a much better place to forge one's soul. >And if she tricks you she is certainly not being 'Bright!' And if a Mercurian uses their Rez, for Blackmail they are not being nice? Yes, but sometimes the means justify the Ends >"And if in the end Humanity is that micron closer to Destiny and not >Fate, it's selfless on her part" > >I never said Lilim couldn't be selfless…it's just their resonance! It is >inherently selfish! To invoke it means you need a selfish mindset. 1 How can angels use the attunement Divine contract? 2 Hooks don't need to be used 3 Hooks can be used for the greater good. >You >would have to be Kobal-tastically jaded to think it otherwise! Then Call me jaded!!!!!!! :-) > >"It's not the gun that's evil, it's the target the bullet hits that >makes it good or evil." > >No, it's the mindset of the gunman. Okay, then. If the mindset of the Lilim has changes so they realised they were *wrong*, that there is more than just them that the Symphony is important, what if the Lilim can *Feel* the beauty of the Symphony flow through them, what if the Lilim could now know what it means to care for others and want to do things for them simply because they want to see them happy.... (I'm starting [okay not starting] to rant) If the mindset of the gunman changed, then could that gunman do good? The mindset of a Bright *certainly* has changed. >A gun is a tool. One human could >shoot a demon; is that a good act? Possibly, insufficient information. >What about if that human was a >lifelong pacifist, an ordinary human who abhors violence. Then their gun (going back an anology) is not a gun, but what ever tool that person uses to fight the Good Fight. > >"Nope. Not a bit. It's only harmful if the other party welshes. If >Brights *can't* enforce the agreement, it's one-sided against them and >no Lilim would redeem no matter *why.*" (PS I'd dissagree that no Lillm would redeem if they lost part of their Rez [afterall the first to redeem didn't know what she'd be getting], but I do think that Brights should keep their full Rez) >Well that and the fact that you are consorting with evil! Of course it's >harmful. A Bright who 'enforces' the agreement is risking falling in my >book. Again - explain "Divine contract" >She cannot user her Geas power as it stands. We need something >else for these characters. I completely disagree. >In fact why would a Lilim redeem; what could break that mindset? Demon's should redeem because they think "Hey, I'd have a much cooler Rez if I redeemed" (IMNSHO the Calabite in FoTM is not Redemption material, at least not without a hell of a lot of work) they should redeem because their Mindset is Wrong, they should start to apprieciate the Symphony. >"If we were two kids in the playground, and you offered me a go on your >spacehopper in return for my milky way bar, and I gave you my milky way >bar and you ate it and then you told me to get lost, because it's *your* >spacehopper and you changed your ind, I have a right to justice." > >If I did that, sure I'd be a pretty mean SOB. Yes, Justice should be done! >But if you are filled with >thoughts of vengeance are you not flirting with your Ftae? Is a desire to see justice done flirting with Fate, Hmmm must check on old Dommie and Gabriel. >(especially >if beating the snotkins out of your classmate is the first step toward a >life of violence and crime as opposed to a destiny of peace and >inspiration). I digress! Oops, so did I! >Who says you have a right? >Dominic? (cant imagine him hanging around >school playgrounds!) (That's not what I've heard servitors of Andre saying :-) ) the point is that you, as a lilim are saying that >you will give me that milky way soley to get your grubby mitts on my >spacehopper (I wonder who on this list would also like a go?). Me! Me! that's >mean because you are using our friendship to get to my big bouncy orange >ball! So next time I walk into a supermarket, I should get offended if they wanted me to pay? It was a bussiness transaction. >I'm crying now! I hope you are happy! My best fwiend is a demon, >how would I know that. It doesn't matter you should know that if ou take something off someone they have the right to expect something in return. >The minute you inflict that geas you are back in >hell because you aren't being selfless; In this circumstance, yes - but maybe if it was the Sanguine space hopper and he wanted to use it to trap the Cabbalite over there in it.... >being selfless means you accept >that fact that I m might not live up to my end of the deal, but that's >ok because I'm a human and you love me for who I am. No being a door mat - he let's you walk all over him. If a Malakite saw a human, they would only love them if they were honourable (to some degreee). >"This is a *deal.* People who break deals are selfish. People who >force them to abide by the deal they made are not innately so." > >Yes they are, and no they are not; Erm who are you referring to when you say "they"? >BUT Lilim are innately selfish >BECAUSE they're demons! But, Bright's aren't!!!!! >Also, using that resonance is a selfish act >because it requires selfish thinking to use it. Open to interpretaion. >"So... if a Cherub tells a mob boss to leave his charge alone or suffer, >and the Mob boss fires a gub…and the Cherub uses the Song of Shields to >protect…and then teaches that Mob Boss a lesson... that's wrong because >the Mob Boss had no idea the Cherub had special powers and couldn't know >he wouldn't be able to shoot the charge? > >You are not entering into a deal with Cheubim. All the Chrub is required >to do is look after his charge, anything else is personal satisfaction. >Maybe even pride! > >That mobster was not entering into an agreement with a Lilim. It's not a >accurate example. No, the point is if you don't know doing wrong will cause the might of Heaven to crush you, you don't have an excuse of saying - "I didn't know that If I broke that deal I would take damage" - You did wrong, so you pay. >"I'm sorry, but I don't have any compassion for someone who agrees to do >something and then breaks his word, especially if the task is for the >greater good. Let him be forced or let him be damaged -- it's not the >*Bright* who's being selfish." > >Ah, but I believe an angel would, or should. If angels cant feel >compassion then they are on the slippery slope! Then Fall like the Stones you Represent David. >It's this cold >indifference that makes Hell's victories all the more common. Look at >the world! Looking at this world doesn't help, I don't live in the IN universe. >I don't think people should break their word, but if you and I enter >into a deal (one in which I would naturally assume you are at least >human!) What the Hell kinda difference does it make? > >Ramesh: "This is In Nomine. The Angels might be wrong about what's best >for you or for others, but that's their motivation and what they're >working towards. Selflessness and Destiny. I don't get this argument at >all." (BTW that wasn't me) >It's not an argument. I saying that if Bright's are motivated to help >people through fulfilling their needs, what means do they have to know >how to best go about that. Asking other people defeats the point of it. Why does asking others defeat the point? Should Servitors of Destiny who don't have the "predicty attunement" (I'm in a hurrry!) then should they not ask angels who do? >"I don't think Demons can be considered evil solely because they are >demons, I think you should judge them by the same methods you would any >other person. (But of course usually they would be judged as evil)" > >You cannot my friend, for God hath judged them and God's word is >absolute. God doesn't speak to me personally, are you Yves or Kronos - otherwise how do you know what God wants, you can only state your opinion. >Demons are evil, they are selfish and evil, because evil is >selfish. Evil serves only itself, like the firstborn of the damned, the >Morningstar. The Morning Star was not the First Born, that was Mike! >This is what makes IN fun as well! Not know what side is the good side also makes it good!! >"I agree that Darks act like that, but Brights act radically different. >Initially they tend to be sickeningly *nice*," > >If they do they need different resonance rules. No, they need different roleplaying. >"So what if the legal institutions are man made? What difference does >it make?" > >a Geas is made of celestial stuff. One could say that they were created >by God as aprt of the symphony. God made man, but mand made lawsuits and >contracts! Call me thick but I still don't follow. >"By "lowly DP" to whom would you be referring, surely you're not >describing Lilith as "lowly"" > >Actually I was being generic. Any DP. okie >"Yes it is! Both parties have shared their bread and cheese, both get a >cheese sandwich, it's a fair exchange." > >Maybe bit what's the Lilim's motivation in sharing. Something selfish. >And insecure as well, therefore something devoid of trust and love, >divine qualities. In this circumstance it is selfish, but trades are done for mutual self interest (usually), that's what the Word is about (IMNSHO) >"If I *owe* you a go on my space hopper, then you are simply making sure >justice is done." > >If that is how you look at life (as a lilim), then you are selfish Or you have a sense of Justice. >and >the world will look like the hell you came from Hey, my room is a mess, but I think Hell is a bit of an extremem desciption. Okay, maybe not :-) >because it will be >devoid of the light of heaven, the light of trust and love, because you >cannot love. You cannot give of yourself freely. Buts Brights do see the Light of Heaven!!! >Is killing a soul justice? Possibly - give me circumstances then I'll decide!!! >"Again, Brights and Darks are different." > >Not in their resonance! But in Rez usage, and personality and all that makes the differnce between good and evil!!! Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind "First you must learn Fiddling, then you must forget Fiddling. Must you remember to breath for breathing to occur? No. It is the same with Fiddling" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:06:00 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Bartley To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 12 March 1999 18:47 Subject: Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) >On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Martin Arnold wrote: > >[Lilim resonance is/isn't evil] > >I have an opinion but instead of airing it can I put in a vote for "we've >beaten this subject to death?" No. It's still moving I tell you!!!!! There it did it again!!! I think we need to move onto bigger sticks!!!! Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind "First you must learn Fiddling, then you must forget Fiddling. Must you remember to breath for breathing to occur? No. It is the same with Fiddling" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:18:55 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) Whistling in the Dark wrote: >Do the Wind's Servitors have to be *honest* twenty-four/seven? >Oddly, I'm not a violent criminal today. No,That's Tuesday. Right? >Dark Lilim work with Demons. Their creator is a "Demon" Princess. But >they aren't Demons. They aren't Fallen Angels or made in the mold of >Fallen Angels. They are Something Else. > >Free Lilim are Free -- they don't have to work for either side and often >work for both. They're selfish, often, but they aren't Demons. > >Bright Lilim are Angelic by convention even as their Dark sisters are >Demonic by convention. But they're no more Angels then Dark Lilim are >Demons. > >This was stated In Canon by Beth. I believe Beth. Beth is Always Right By >Definition. Cool! Is this true 'Beth? >But I also agree with it. It does make sense... Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind "First you must learn Fiddling, then you must forget Fiddling. Must you remember to breath for breathing to occur? No. It is the same with Fiddling" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:04:43 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> [ADMIN] Re: Lilim again (longish) >Ben(secretly Kobal) Cherub of Destiny Kobal works for Destiny, Wow!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:36:35 -0600 (CST) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Re: The Devil Went Down to Georgia Johnny's not a Soldier of Hell or Heaven. He's obviously a Sorceror. Look at his gigantic ego. The man obviously has a huge sense of self, one of the prime requisites for being a Sorceror. I guess fiddle playing is part of his summoning ritual. Or maybe the fiddle contest was a Will War. The guy must be pretty good to beat old Lucy. Maybe he's one of the Dozen. Ben Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:02:32 -0600 (CST) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? All this talk of Lilim has given me an idea. Lilim can geas themselves to honor a bargain. Suppose someone (say a celestially savvy sorceror, and say it three times fast) had something a particularly foolish or desperate Lilim needed. He makes a deal with her (has her geas herself to keep it) to "get him out of debt from everyone he owes." He then gives here what she wants, thus obligating her to keep up her end. She goes out and manages to pay back his college loans and his mortgage. But in the meantime he's been accumulating more debt in order to buy that boat he always wanted. Every time one debt is paid up she turns around and finds another still unpaid. What's worse, is he said ALL debts, which means any deals he makes with Lilim she has to go and repay. The geas isn't impossible to repay, because he will eventually die and thus stop accumulating debt (Unless of course he starts making deals in the Afterlife, but even that has a potential end). Is the sorceror sitting pretty or is there something that could bust this deal? Also, what if said sorceror owes a debt to the Lilim in question? How can she pay his debt if it is owed to her? To pay back a gesea the subject must go and fulfill the request. That means in order for the gesea to be paid up, he has to do it. If someone else does it for him, then that doesn't count. So according to the above deal he would be perpetually in debt and there would be no way for her to get out of being in debt him. Is this gesea feedback loop feasible? Ben Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:07:44 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > Demon's should redeem because they think "Hey, I'd have a much cooler Rez > if I redeemed" (IMNSHO the Calabite in FoTM is not Redemption material, at > least not without a hell of a lot of work) they should redeem because their > Mindset is Wrong, they should start to apprieciate the Symphony. I think a sincere desire to Redeem for *any* reason makes a demon Redemption material, but I agree that FotM's Bang-Bang would require a lot of work before he could survive Redemption. He's the sort of Redemption candidate you stick in a Divine Tether, have a Seraph demonstrate that he's a Seraph to, explain that you can't survive Redemption unless you feel guilty for what you've done, and then brainwash (hopefully with his cooperation) until he's ready. That having been said, most Archangels wouldn't bother with a demon who wants to Redeem for a selfish reason. Novalis and Yves would; Eli might; Janus probably would *in this case* because the selifsh reason in question aligns with his Word. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:12:00 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Benjamin Acosta wrote: > All this talk of Lilim has given me an idea. Lilim can geas themselves to > honor a bargain. Suppose someone (say a celestially savvy sorceror, and > say it three times fast) had something a particularly foolish or desperate > Lilim needed. He makes a deal with her (has her geas herself to keep it) > to "get him out of debt from everyone he owes." I think I'd rule that it only applies to debts the sorcerer owed when he made the bargain ('everyone he owes' is present tense, therefore it's everyone he now owes), but it *does* include debts he owed at that time she doesn't know about. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:13:56 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? I think a Lilim can simply forgive a debt owed to her, so that part of the scheme would fall through. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:07:46 PST From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> shelf life these topics dont seem to have a very long shelf life do they? i find this holier than thou element a real pain in the ass to be honest, but i will take it to private mail! yes i said that. this topic has only been on for a couple of days! What is the basis for it being dead? i was getting into this!!!!! Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:28:04 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Dark Humor >>>Mm -- I can see the point, and can accept that argument as being valid for a given game. At the same time, Lilith's Word is Freedom, and is quite explicitly incorporating the Good as well as Evil of Freedom.<<< Well, no. Lilith is a Demon Princess. Any apparent good she does is either at her whim or coincidental. The fact that a Word _can_ be good or evil doesn't mean the Word-holder represents all aspects of it. Technology can certainly be used for good and evil, but Vapula doesn't represent the advance of knowledge and the betterment of mankind through technology, he represents mad experiments, arrogant scientists who do things because they can without questioning whether they should, and technology that can changes the world devoid of moral considerations. The Media is another Word that could easily be turned to good purposes, but isn't, and most other Princes' Words could be cast with good aspects if one stretches enough. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:39:27 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Lilim again (longish) >>>I never said Lilim couldn't be selfless…it's just their resonance! It is inherently selfish!<<< In your (incorrect) opinion. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:03:35 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Dark Humor At 7:28 PM -0500 3/12/99, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Mm -- I can see the point, and can accept that argument as being valid >for >a given game. At the same time, Lilith's Word is Freedom, and is quite >explicitly incorporating the Good as well as Evil of Freedom.<<< > > >Well, no. Lilith is a Demon Princess. Any apparent good she does is either >at her whim or coincidental. The fact that a Word _can_ be good or evil >doesn't mean the Word-holder represents all aspects of it. Technology can >certainly be used for good and evil, but Vapula doesn't represent the >advance of knowledge and the betterment of mankind through technology, he >represents mad experiments, arrogant scientists who do things because they >can without questioning whether they should, and technology that can >changes the world devoid of moral considerations. The Media is another Word >that could easily be turned to good purposes, but isn't, and most other >Princes' Words could be cast with good aspects if one stretches enough. > >-David Mmm... my read of FotM and other extended writeups of Lilith disagree. They specifically mention her being pleased with the fall of the Berlin Wall, the signing of the Declaration of Independence, etc., with the strong implication that while Lilith is essentially selfish, she doesn't let herself get pigeonholed *entirely* by the Demonic side. That being said, I can *still* accept this argument. - -- Eric Alfred Burns |"It was then I felt my heart break like a sabre@annotations.com | fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com | Reality -- and it's been broken ever since." http://www.roundrobin.org | --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:17:20 PST From: "Adam Campbell" Subject: IN> First time inside. OI' I started playing IN NOMINE about five months ago and fell in love. I would like to sharer some of my campaign ideas and info with others. If interrested let me know. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:27:24 PST From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> IN london Well if anyone wants a copy of 56 pages or wrod 97 formatted mayhem relating to tethers for London, they just have to ask...~s~ Martin Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:01:13 -0500 From: "Sheep Boy" Subject: RE: IN> Bright Lilim & Geas conflict Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > And Geases are nasty. You'll collect dissonance in Trauma... Yanked this out of the allegedly dead thread, but it brought up another question. I know you can't do much of anything, but can you accumulate dissonance while in Limbo? - Stavro +-stavro@crackden.org-------------------------ICQ#18493910-+ | "Boom na da mmm dum na ema | | Da boom na da mmm dum na ema" | | - Korn, "Freak on a Leash" | +----------------http://www.crackden.org/------------------+ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1151 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.