From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Mar 14 17:41:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13558 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:41:00 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id RAA08767 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:35:53 -0600 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:35:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199903142335.RAA08767@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1152 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, March 14 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1152 In this digest: IN> Outcasts IN> IN local quote of the week IN> What do you think? Re: IN> What do you think? Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) Re: IN> House Superior: The Archangel of Pride Re: IN> The Devil Went Down to Georgia Re: IN> Dark Humor Re: IN> shelf life Re: IN> Outcasts Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? RE: IN> Outcasts Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? Re: IN> House Superior: The Archangel of Pride IN> Servitors of Purity ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:10:37 -0500 From: "Sheep Boy" Subject: IN> Outcasts All, This is the first in a probably series of questions to iron out the canon of certain situations in a probably vain attempt to actually get my game together. :) So, with the best of intentions, here we go: Okay, so Outcasts cannot attain Celestial form nor ascend to Heaven. It is mentioned, however, that once an Outcast works off all his/her dissonance, they once again are able to ascend to Heaven (as well as summon their Archangel). I assume this also grants the ability to go Celestial. My question is: How does this work for angels who were not Outcast through their dissonance, but just because some Archangel said "Hey, bonehead. You suck. Out!" Is it the nature of being Outcast which prevents one from attaining Celestial form? Is it the dissonance? Do you require someone high up on your side to be able to go celestial again? Also, as a matter of clarification, does a Heartless celestial have no hope of reaching the celestial plane except through a tether? Or am I missing something... I'm speaking in solitary instances, of course, I know they could follow someone else... Thanks, all, - Stavro +-stavro@crackden.org-------------------------ICQ#18493910-+ | "Boom na da mmm dum na ema | | Da boom na da mmm dum na ema" | | - Korn, "Freak on a Leash" | +----------------http://www.crackden.org/------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:25:47 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> IN local quote of the week Overheard in a recent IN setting locally.... [Balseraph, looking philosophical] It is a sign of great virtue and responsibility to be breaded and deep fried. [Haagenti] Glad you feel that way. Pity I'll be hungry again in an hour. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:37:01 PST From: "Adam Campbell" Subject: IN> What do you think? What do you think of a world-wide conspiracy to cover up the discovery of Atlantis. Normally there would be no interest, but Atlantis was discovered under a mile and a half sheet of ice currently known as Antarctica. Not even the celestials are for certine of the Atlantians origin. Naturally thier all long deceaced. However they left no physical trace they ever existed besites a collection os mini cd-roms, depicting their biolocy and psycology. What would that encompass? Where did they come from? And why does the celestial library and yves not know of thier origin? What do you think? Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:57:58 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> What do you think? At 6:37 PM -0500 3/13/99, Adam Campbell wrote: > What do you think of a world-wide conspiracy to cover up the >discovery of Atlantis. Normally there would be no interest, but Atlantis >was discovered under a mile and a half sheet of ice currently known as >Antarctica. Not even the celestials are for certine of the Atlantians >origin. Naturally thier all long deceaced. However they left no physical >trace they ever existed besites a collection os mini cd-roms, depicting >their biolocy and psycology. What would that encompass? Where did they >come from? And why does the celestial library and yves not know of thier >origin? What do you think? Antarctica is a land mass, not an ice mass, which would make it *somewhat* difficult.... And I'm unsure of something that Yves wouldn't know, since he predates... well, Earth. And everything on it. And named all of it. That being said, of what nature would you have the Atalantens in an IN setting? - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:55:59 +0000 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? Benjamin wrote: > Lilim needed. He makes a deal with her (has her geas herself to keep it) > to "get him out of debt from everyone he owes." He then gives here what > she wants, thus obligating her to keep up her end. She goes out and > manages to pay back his college loans and his mortgage. But in the > meantime he's been accumulating more debt in order to buy that boat he > always wanted. Every time one debt is paid up she turns around and finds > another still unpaid. What's worse, is he said ALL debts, which means any > deals he makes with Lilim she has to go and repay. The geas isn't > impossible to repay, because he will eventually die and thus stop > accumulating debt (Unless of course he starts making deals in the The easiest way to fulfill this Geas would be for the Lilim to kill the sorceror. He no longer owes any mortal anything. Lilim *are* demons, remember. If he owed the Lilim something, she could simply vanish it with a thought, then kill him. Leath. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:27:34 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) Elizabeth Bartley wrote on 12 March 1999 >On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > >> Demon's should redeem because they think "Hey, I'd have a much cooler Rez >> if I redeemed" (IMNSHO the Calabite in FoTM is not Redemption material, at >> least not without a hell of a lot of work) they should redeem because their >> Mindset is Wrong, they should start to apprieciate the Symphony. > >I think a sincere desire to Redeem for *any* reason makes a demon >Redemption material, but I agree that FotM's Bang-Bang would require a lot >of work before he could survive Redemption. > >He's the sort of Redemption candidate you stick in a Divine Tether, have a >Seraph demonstrate that he's a Seraph to, explain that you can't survive >Redemption unless you feel guilty for what you've done, and then brainwash >(hopefully with his cooperation) until he's ready. > >That having been said, most Archangels wouldn't bother with a demon who >wants to Redeem for a selfish reason. Novalis and Yves would; Eli might; >Janus probably would *in this case* because the selifsh reason in question >aligns with his Word. Yeah, I agree with that. But by a "not without a hell of a lot of work" I kinda meant that he'd could Redeem once he had been /persuaded/ a little. And by Redemption material I meant a Demon who could survive Redemption in their current state, I agree that any Demon (well there are always exceptions, but I'm generalising) who has a reason to Redeem has the potential to become a demon who could Redeem. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind "Send me an angel to love, I need to feel a little piece of Heaven. Send me an angel to love, I'm afraid I'll never get to heaven." My Lovers Box - Garbage ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:43:22 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> House Superior: The Archangel of Pride - -----Original Message----- From: Whistling in the Dark To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 12 March 1999 17:52 Subject: IN> House Superior: The Archangel of Pride >As requested.... > >AKIM -- Archangel of Pride Very cool. I just think Stone and Pride should work together, but I guess Malphas' plots are working even in Heaven. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:48:25 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> The Devil Went Down to Georgia EDG wrote on 12 March 1999 >Stacy Stroud wrote: > >> Notice the nature of the bargain: If Johnny loses, he loses his very soul >> to Hell. If he wins, he gets . . . a golden fiddle. If he *were* a >> Soldier of God, he'd be risking one of Heaven's assets (himself) for no >> appreciable gain to the forces of Selflessness and Destiny. He would, at >> the very least, be a Soldier due for a talking-to. > >I dunno... a relic? > >Lucifer's Golden Fiddle (Unique Relic) I like it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:06:20 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Dark Humor - -----Original Message----- From: David Edelstein To: INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 13 March 1999 00:37 Subject: IN> Dark Humor >>>>Mm -- I can see the point, and can accept that argument as being valid >for >a given game. At the same time, Lilith's Word is Freedom, and is quite >explicitly incorporating the Good as well as Evil of Freedom.<<< > > >Well, no. Lilith is a Demon Princess. Any apparent good she does is either >at her whim or coincidental. The fact that a Word _can_ be good or evil >doesn't mean the Word-holder represents all aspects of it. Technology can >certainly be used for good and evil, but Vapula doesn't represent the >advance of knowledge and the betterment of mankind through technology, he >represents mad experiments, arrogant scientists who do things because they >can without questioning whether they should, and technology that can >changes the world devoid of moral considerations. The Media is another Word >that could easily be turned to good purposes, but isn't, and most other >Princes' Words could be cast with good aspects if one stretches enough. With most other DPs I'd Agree that the DP only (really) Represents the Dark side, but in FotM it says that Lilith handles Freedom differently. See the 1st bit of the Personality and Outlook section on page 18, esp "She is as likely to praise a freedom fighter as a pychopathic anarchist (and visa versa of course)". Sure she Emphises the Dark side, but she also represents the Light side. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:56:52 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> shelf life Martin Arnold wrote on 12 March 1999 >these topics dont seem to have a very long shelf life do they? > >i find this holier than thou element a real pain in the ass to be >honest, but i will take it to private mail! > >yes i said that. > >this topic has only been on for a couple of days! What is the basis for >it being dead? > >i was getting into this!!!!! I agree with you to some extent, but I think once positions are Firmly entrenched as they are now, the discussion will go quite a long time without progress which could annoy some people not involved in the discussion - and so moving off list we could get some conculsion to this without dramatically increasing the posts to the list. To be honest I am in 2 minds about the thing, but I guess if people want it off list then it's not that much bother to continue it that way. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:15:08 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Outcasts Sheep Boy wrote: >My question is: How does this work for angels who were not >Outcast through their dissonance, but just because some Archangel said >"Hey, bonehead. You suck. Out!" Is it the nature of being Outcast >which prevents one from attaining Celestial form? I thought the errata states Outcast can go Celestial. >Is it the >dissonance? Do you require someone high up on your side to be able to >go celestial again? > >Also, as a matter of clarification, does a Heartless celestial have no >hope of reaching the celestial plane except through a tether? Or am I >missing something... I'm speaking in solitary instances, of course, I >know they could follow someone else... Apart from following someone, or being dragged by some funky Superior power I don't think so. But if you're talking solitary instances NOTHING is beyond 111 or 666, and rule can always be broken a few times IN is just a game. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:18:32 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? Leath Sheales wrote on 14 March 1999 >Benjamin wrote: > >> Lilim needed. He makes a deal with her (has her geas herself to keep it) >> to "get him out of debt from everyone he owes." He then gives here what >> she wants, thus obligating her to keep up her end. She goes out and >> manages to pay back his college loans and his mortgage. But in the >> meantime he's been accumulating more debt in order to buy that boat he >> always wanted. Every time one debt is paid up she turns around and finds >> another still unpaid. What's worse, is he said ALL debts, which means any >> deals he makes with Lilim she has to go and repay. The geas isn't >> impossible to repay, because he will eventually die and thus stop >> accumulating debt (Unless of course he starts making deals in the > >The easiest way to fulfill this Geas would be for the Lilim to kill >the sorceror. He no longer owes any mortal anything. Lilim *are* >demons, remember. If he owed the Lilim something, she could simply >vanish it with a thought, then kill him. I like the way you think! D'oh, gotta stop thinking like that I'm an angel now. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:12:02 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? >>The easiest way to fulfill this Geas would be for the Lilim to kill >>the sorceror. He no longer owes any mortal anything. Lilim *are* >>demons, remember. If he owed the Lilim something, she could simply >>vanish it with a thought, then kill him. > >I like the way you think! *evil grin* >D'oh, gotta stop thinking like that I'm an angel now. Just keep believing that. . . Of course, I -as- Malakite of Fate can honestly say you are more likely Hellbound than anything. >Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind Now I think you're one of Valefor's lost little sheep. Especially since the Demon Princess of Nitpicking said it should be: 'of the Wind'. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Granduer * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:37:23 -0500 From: "Sheep Boy" Subject: RE: IN> Outcasts Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > I thought the errata states Outcast can go Celestial. Right you are, thanks much. - Stavro +-stavro@crackden.org-------------------------ICQ#18493910-+ | "Boom na da mmm dum na ema | | Da boom na da mmm dum na ema" | | - Korn, "Freak on a Leash" | +----------------http://www.crackden.org/------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:43:53 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim again (longish) David Edelstein wrote on 13 March 1999 >>>>I never said Lilim couldn't be selfless…it's just their resonance! It is > >inherently selfish!<<< > >In your (incorrect) opinion. Erm David, What happened to rational debate? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:57:52 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? - -----Original Message----- From: Shadowstar To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 14 March 1999 16:17 Subject: Re: IN> The deal that keeps on giving: Would this work? >>>The easiest way to fulfill this Geas would be for the Lilim to kill >>>the sorceror. He no longer owes any mortal anything. Lilim *are* >>>demons, remember. If he owed the Lilim something, she could simply >>>vanish it with a thought, then kill him. >> >>I like the way you think! > > *evil grin* > >>D'oh, gotta stop thinking like that I'm an angel now. > > Just keep believing that. . . Of course, I -as- Malakite of Fate can >honestly say you are more likely Hellbound than anything. Me, lie - Never! Fast Talk - that's another matter entirely. >>Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind > > Now I think you're one of Valefor's lost little sheep. Especially since >the Demon Princess of Nitpicking said it should be: 'of the Wind'. D'oh! Damn Vapusoft, I thought I corrected that!!! >Be seeing you, Ditto >- Tafka J. >= shadowstar@centuryinter.net ># Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Granduer >* http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine Hey, I thought you said you were a Malakite - Damn! Must deal with that Trusting Discord. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of The Wind ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:23:40 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> House Superior: The Archangel of Pride At 9:43 AM -0500 3/14/99, Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Whistling in the Dark >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: 12 March 1999 17:52 >Subject: IN> House Superior: The Archangel of Pride > > >>As requested.... >> >>AKIM -- Archangel of Pride > > > > >Very cool. I just think Stone and Pride should work together, but I guess >Malphas' plots are working even in Heaven. > >Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of Wind Actually, that's kind of the point -- sometimes, you can be your own worst enemy. David, by seeing his archenemy in Akim, serves his archenemy's interests. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:32:52 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> Servitors of Purity According to different materials -- absolutely none of the Tsayadim have ever Fallen. However, does this extend to other Servitors of Purity -- or are the Tsayadim specifically those Servitors who refused to align themselves with another Archangel (remaining Pure), and other Servitors, having moved on, might then Fall? In other words, are any of the (non-Malakim) former Servitors of Uriel currently in Hell? - -- Eric Alfred Burns |"It was then I felt my heart break like a sabre@annotations.com | fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com | Reality -- and it's been broken ever since." http://www.roundrobin.org | --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1152 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.