From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Mar 26 14:50:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19569 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:50:44 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA08842 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:52:04 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:52:04 -0600 Message-Id: <199903262052.OAA08842@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1180 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, March 26 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1180 In this digest: Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Re: IN> New Material/Fresh Ideas Re: IN> Alternate Crusades - The Dream Crusade Re: IN> Dominic and Justice Re: IN> Alternate Crusades - The Dream Crusade Re: IN> New Material/Fresh Ideas IN> Ciao Re: IN> New Material/Fresh Ideas Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) Re: IN> Dominic and Justice IN> Superior cutups (more FLUFF than Paddington's belly-button) Re: IN> Dominic and Justice Re: IN> Kyriotates and Insects Re: IN> Dominic and Justice Re: IN> Bonded Servitors IN> o/~ You can fly... o/~ Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) Re: IN> Dominic and Justice Re: IN> Dominic and Justice Re: IN> Dominic and Justice Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 03:07:10 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Shadowstar wrote: > 'Never to suffer an Evil to live, when it is your choice.' > 'Never Surrender to, or be captured by, the forces of the Adversary.' > > Or something along those lines. Just as an insurance policy to make > certain she would not betray Judgement. Being a Seraph, means he saw the > Truth in her heart. *grin* > > Naturally this concept would -grate- on the Lilim's sense of freedom, > but then she wound up in Judgement in the -first- place. > > Looking at it, I've been wondering what level of Geases would equate to > that level of devotion? They are in the negative, which makes things that > much harder. . . Which is why a Third Geas to: 'Always to renew my Oaths > to my Duty' would seem appropriate in this case. I'd say sixes. Like a Malakite, if you blow these off, you become a steaming puddle of Discord. If she breaks those, that's -12- to -18- points of Dissonance all at once! As a GM, I'd rule that that may be enough to just soulfry her on the spot. Just my take on it. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:01:47 +0200 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> New Material/Fresh Ideas At 23:34 25/03/99 , you wrote: >This makes the Christians right when they say that Jesus is the Son of >God, and the Jews and Muslims right when they say he is not. "Eli" means >"god", as I recall what little Hebrew I know. In a literally accurate but "Eli" means "My God". God is "El", or "Elohim". >likely to annoy Seraphim way, Yeshua ben Eli would be "Jesus son of god". I like the "Son of Eli" idea. There are complications, of course - most of what Jesus is supposed to have said in the Gospels would make him hard to reconcile with Eli... Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:29:50 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Crusades - The Dream Crusade On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Mark Baker wrote: > An interesting piece of fictional (that's the Rebekkah perspective > talking) history. Why, thank you. > A few people have pointed out that Blandine would be unlikely to take > the fight to the corporeal realm already. I feel there's a couple of > other problems with the idea as you portray it though: All right, go ahead. (I'm going to polish this up and put it on my page, so input is good.) > 1) Most of Blandine's servitors are Menunim, for whom such direct action > would almost certainly be dissonant. The strain of being ordered to > participate in such a struggle would almost certainly have caused a lot > of them to lose faith in their superior, perhaps turning renegade or > even falling, which could explain why there are now so few of them. I'm not sure where my copy of _The Marches_ is, but I had the impression that there really weren't all that many Menunim. It's just that almost all the Menunim that exist serve Blandine. I could be wrong, of course. I didn't read _The Marches_ all that thoroughly. Your explanation of why there are so few Menunim in this alternate setting makes perfect sense, however. Mind if I just adopt it? > 2) Given their past history, I can't believe that Blandine would ever > become so involved in a struggle against the creatures of the ethereal > that she would ignore Beleth. Very true. I would imagine that she didn't, initially. It's just tht, as the Crusade wore on, it occupied more and more of her time. Basically, she obsessed. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:59:14 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Justice On Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 10:39:22PM -0600, Elizabeth Bartley wrote: > That having been said, the main book portrays him as zealous to the point > of trying other Archangels, Which is, IMO, a good thing. I'd be worried about him if he didn't try Archangels when he thought it necessary, given history. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "I shall stomp upon all who oppose me. The stomping shall be swift. The stomping shall be painful. And I shall show no mercy In all of my stomping. Amen." - Jeff Tidball philosophises. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:10:45 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Crusades - The Dream Crusade On Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 08:29:50AM -0400, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: > > 1) Most of Blandine's servitors are Menunim, for whom such direct action > > would almost certainly be dissonant. The strain of being ordered to > > participate in such a struggle would almost certainly have caused a lot > > of them to lose faith in their superior, perhaps turning renegade or > > even falling, which could explain why there are now so few of them. > > I'm not sure where my copy of _The Marches_ is, but I had the impression > that there really weren't all that many Menunim. It's just that almost > all the Menunim that exist serve Blandine. I could be wrong, of course. I > didn't read _The Marches_ all that thoroughly. I understand that the most common choir for Servitors of Dream is the Cherubim. I'm not sure about how many Menunim there are in service to Blandine, but I don't see why they wouldn't be at least as common as the "major" choirs. After all, Beleth's second most common Band is the Pachadim. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "I shall stomp upon all who oppose me. The stomping shall be swift. The stomping shall be painful. And I shall show no mercy In all of my stomping. Amen." - Jeff Tidball philosophises. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:17:31 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> New Material/Fresh Ideas On Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 11:01:47AM +0200, Yossi Gurvitz wrote: > I like the "Son of Eli" idea. There are complications, of course - most > of what Jesus is supposed to have said in the Gospels would make him hard > to reconcile with Eli... > Could you provide background for this assertion, in the context of Jesus' actions and Eli's personality. (Of course, if Eli did forsake him, maybe Jesus had gone Outcast...) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "I shall stomp upon all who oppose me. The stomping shall be swift. The stomping shall be painful. And I shall show no mercy In all of my stomping. Amen." - Jeff Tidball philosophises. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:34:08 -0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: IN> Ciao Time for me to take a rest from the mailing list. Ciao, all. jo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:34:23 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> New Material/Fresh Ideas Christ's cry on the cross of "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" is a quote from an opening line of a Psalm. The Psalm starts downbeat, but ends upbeat, though it's anyone's guess how much of this was in Jesus's mind when he uttered the quote. This doesn't contradict anything else said here about the quote; it just adds a layer. Christ's self-given title "Son of Man" is almost certainly a reference to a messianic vision from the book of Daniel, in which the prophet sees "someone like a son of man" come before the Throne of God and receive eternal kingship. "I always thought it was quite strongly implied that Jesus was the son of Gabriel - "Gabriel was present at the conception of two major religions (literally, in the case of Christianity" - though now that I re-read it, I suppose she just might have been hanging around, making sure everything was done correctly. :)" Whatever Derek may have meant when he wrote that, the usual assumption in Christianity is that Mary conceived at the moment she replied to Gabriel, saying, "May it be as you have said." (Luke 1:38.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:14:26 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) In a message dated 3/25/99 6:30:26 PM, jzoshak@haverford.edu writes: >Yeah ... or Odin and crew could just go berserkergang on the angels, seeing >as how they're probably likely to be thinking a lot less about law than >about vengeance. The Norse gods were warriors' gods, after all. It is >important to remember, though, that in the Norse Eddas, there was a great >deal of trickery and twisted plot -- you should definitely give the >characters a chance to be crafty and escape from horrible Viking-death. > :) > I don't see Odin going berserk on the angels until *after* he passes judgment. His spear is known as Lawgiver, after all... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:00:08 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Justice From: Steel Angel >Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >> As for Gabriel, it is possible he *began* his campaign for political >> reasons, or because it sounded as though she was advocating heresy, >> but once he was into it he pursued the case honestly. However, the >> Inquisition is rigourous in its pursuit. >> >> And it's certainly as much his fault as anyone's. No one is claiming >> he isn't overzealousness on a plate. > > Yes, but Gabriel -still- went nuts duting the course of the >investigation. I highly doubt Dominic did anything other angels have had >to put up with, and Gabriel -cracked-. Shows a bit of a flaw in the AA >of Fire, wouldn't you think? Not someone you -quite- want to trust with >such responsibility as Heaven's Messenger. The main reason Gabriel cracked when other AAs did not would be the dissonance generated by having a Word in dispute with the Demon Prince of Fire. That, in and of itself, has done more to damage her than Dominic's campaign against her. His campaign was just the final stroke that shattered an already weakened structure, sadly to say... Azzur, Malakim of the Sword, in Service to Protection ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:04:30 PST From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> Superior cutups (more FLUFF than Paddington's belly-button) here's something desperate, a cutup of the writeups of Beleth and Blandine! "The creatures of Beleth solid than others and becoming the most terrified with protecting dreamers. Malakim, those steel their fears. The minions of nervous glances when disease are her dire enemies. Something of a loner. As Beleth, one of the first angelic politics. But just Fear is now a Djinn. Full from the planning of the Lucifer against the fighting. It's generally if Blandine the archangels, Blandine the Princess of Night good for mankind. She especially those who merely follow her Word, on mortals. The other lives its goals and dreams with Lucifer, and seldom visits as possible. If they sleep at all. No important combat monsters. Like will even work with her subtle background manipulator Asmodeus, who have involved themselves in outright Malphas, whose paranoia and adventure for the servants of Blandine. Beleth and her servants during the day, saving their other diabolicals to promote dreamworlds far from earth. That they do it massing the ethereal Marches of darkness they would never typically spend a few lonely souls before reaching the rejuvenating essence." "hurry up please it's late!" - -WSB, the End of Words… Martin Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:59:33 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Justice Steel Angel wrote: >Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >> As for Gabriel, it is possible he *began* his campaign for political >> reasons, or because it sounded as though she was advocating heresy, >> but once he was into it he pursued the case honestly. However, the >> Inquisition is rigourous in its pursuit. >> >> And it's certainly as much his fault as anyone's. No one is claiming >> he isn't overzealousness on a plate. > > Yes, but Gabriel -still- went nuts duting the course of the >investigation. I highly doubt Dominic did anything other angels have had >to put up with, and Gabriel -cracked-. Shows a bit of a flaw in the AA >of Fire, wouldn't you think? Not really, being the one chosen to be the conduit of the word of God, I'm not surprised she's a little nutty. Being that linked to the incomprehensible conciousness of reality would eventually drive anyone (except the avatars) fruitloop. >Not someone you -quite- want to trust with >such responsibility as Heaven's Messenger. Not really, that is her position chosen by God, I'm sure God has his reasons and Yves' seems to be sure of her. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of the Wind "Balseraph of Theft you say, why the very idea is absurd! I *am* a Seraph of the Wind. No, really!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:32:47 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates and Insects wrote David Edelstein: >>>> Right. It's plants and machines which require a >special attunement. And insects. <<< > > >Hmm -- can't any Kyriotate possess insects, like other animals? But each >individual bug would require the investment of at least 1 Force, and harm >to that bug would cause dissonance. It's only Kyriotates of Jordi that can >possess _swarms_ of bugs, and ignore the loss of a few individuals within >the swarm. At least, that's how I'd read it. Erm, IIRC the errata and stuff I've read online have said that only Kyriotates of Jordi can possess arachids and bugs, I prefer you're opinion. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of the Wind "Balseraph of Theft you say, why the very idea is absurd! I *am* a Seraph of the Wind. No, really!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:20:08 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Justice Well, between being hardwired to God, in permanent Word-friction with a Demon Prince, and persecuted by Dominic, seems to me Gabriel has her pick of reasons to be unbalanced. Probably why Novalis and Jean are joining forces to create a celestial antidepressant. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:38:19 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Bonded Servitors Janet Anderson wrote: "1. I don't think it should be a distinction, but a completely "other" kind of relationship. How rare it is depends on the Superior, but it should not be common." Sounds fine to me. "2. ... I would also add the being's celestial forces to any Will roll to avoid possession by a Kyriotate, a Shedite, or the Song of Possession." A good addition. "3. First of all, I disagree with the idea of [divine] servitors being able to use demonic rites unless they are either demons or on the way to being demons (i.e., very stupid Outcasts)" I agree that an Unfallen Bonded with a Fallen Superior is playing footsie with falling if they use the demonic rites, at least most of the time. Sometimes, you get demonic rites that aren't particularly evil. "Also I would definitely lose the part where they are unable to fall or redeem unless their Superior did." This part was included to make them more like Malakim, on the theory that Malakim are, in fact, an extreem instance of Bonding, forming the basis of a whole new choir. "How often in the average game does a Superior fall or redeem?" Very seldom, yes. In fact, it apparently hasn't happened since THE Fall, and there are NO instances of Princes redeeming. There remains the marginal case of Uriel. Kinda. "With this in mind, I present as an alternative the following inconveniences to add to the benefits of being Bonded: ... 2) Since your Superior effectively is your heart, he can find you anytime he wants to. This can be good or bad depending on circumstances." I feel this makes life unplayable for a Bonded alienated from its Superior (whoever changed sides). That's fine, of course, if you want Bonded to always be on the same side as the Superior. I suppose a very few Superiors, like maybe Novalis and Kobal for very different reasons, might leave alienated Bonded at large. "2) A perceptive celestial can sense the presence of the Bond." Nice ideas. The Mercurian surely. "This applies of course to vessels. I suspect that *anyone* can see that you are Bonded when you're in celestial form. (I liked the idea of an earring that shows up celestially, but Seraphim, Ofanim, and Kyriotates don't have ears in celestial form.)" Pierced ear, actually, not an earring, but most Bonded would be proud of their status and display it by wearing the ring. I should think a Kyriotate could display an arbitrary number of ears... "And does the "never serve another Superior" part preclude being an angel "in service to" someone, like the Servitors of Eli?" I wouldn't think so. Being "in service to" just means you take orders from the alternate Superior, as opposed to taking on their attunements and dissonance conditions, which I wouldn't let a Bonded do. "Lastly, because of the nature of this relationship, I'm not convinced that it is at all common among demons." Yes, it probably IS a lot rarer in Hell. But I could imagine the Total Bootlicking Toady kind of servitor deciding it wants to ride its Prince's coattails through an infernally glorious eternity, or would rather die than not do so. "(I'm sorry to hear that some people are bored by this list. I've been bored by a few of the topics, but this is more than offset by ideas like this one.)" Yeah, well, that was the idea. Thanks. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:19:37 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> o/~ You can fly... o/~ [Archangel Beth peeks out from behind a bookshelf. For once, she has wings and a halo instead of horns and a crown. She creeps into view, followed by a bunch of fluttering relievers. She turns and hisses, "Shoo! Shoo! There's no canon here! Go away!" They go "Awwwwww" and flutter off. She turns back.] Okay, this is mangled out of a dream I had... Liber Canticorum has the Songmaster attunement in it. Once upon a time, there was a Songmaster Malakite. (Not necessarily of Creation, either, though that's certainly a plausible choice, and works well with other aspects.) And, like many Malakim, he had this little hangup about slaying evil. Unfortunately, he managed to take a bite out of something bigger than he could chew. Remnant time. But remnants keep their attunements. Remnants usually remember their Songs -- at least some of them. Can you say, "Trouble waiting to happen?" Enter the PCs. They've been instructed to investigate a recent pseudo-religious cult which has established itself in some nicely inaccessible place. The tenants of this cult seem to be: * Obey the leader (who preaches a nice combination of New Age Fluff and Hard Core Fire & Brimstone; this looks like a personality cult). Some of it may look a little familiar to celestial eyes, but then, most enduring religions have at least a *grain* of truth in them. * Quasi-military discipline, apparently for The Final Conflict (whatever they're defining it as today). * Donating all their worldly belongings to the cult. * Avoidance of non-believers, including family members and (former) friends... unless trying to convert said non-believers. * Church services out the wazoo, including late-night ones, which seem to involve (from gleaning the Weekly World News) dancing around until exhaustion and speaking in tongues, and/or singing mystic chants. Full services like that only happen once a week (on the Sabbath, of course). Their inaccessible place has a perimeter which is guarded by armed people. (If in the US, they have guns. If not, they have whatever ranged or non-ranged weaponry it's plausible for a bunch of functional loons to have acquired.) Now, all this would not be as much of a problem to PCs if it weren't for one thing. Essence is being spent out there, sometimes in very large bursts. So their assignment is to get in, find out if it's a cover for the Other Side, Renegades, Outcasts, Grigori, Children of the Grigori, and/or ethereal spirits. ("What, all at once?") Add in spouse-napped kids, wide-eyed innocents who BELIEVE, the canny slimeball who plans to take over the place for her/himself and get the donations, a few wenches who're the official harem, etc., to suit the GM's taste for muddying the waters. I suggest having a few 'napped kids, a few runaways who go for this, and the slimeball (so it's not clear if the leader is behind the more obnoxious policies or not). The one thing everyone there shares is that, if they've been there for at least a month, they BELIEVE. They *believe* that their leader is the chosen of God who will lead them to victory over the evils of this world. And why do they believe? Well, it's like this -- once a month, their leader participates in the weekly "special service." And there's proof. But they won't talk about it, because this is something you have to see to understand. Even the slimeball looks wild-eyed and agrees that yes, Something Happens. A selection of the group are refered to as the Chosen Disciples. Some of them have 6 Forces. Others are refered to as Singers or Players. Some of the Singers have 6 Forces. (The GM picks the numbers according to taste.) The PCs aren't going to get close to the leader at first -- his followers are mildly paranoid about newsies or assassins (from the government, trying to cover up his miraclous powers!), and besides practically strip-searching PCs (or actually doing it, for obnoxious ones), they seem to worry about demons attacking him or something. (Any demons who get suspected as such will get stuck in a room all alone and spoken to only via a radio. Any who get caught using resonances will probably be shot at, and/or all conversations take place via a tape recorder. Yes, these people do seem to have some *vague* clue how to deal with demonic resonances. *VAGUE* clue.) The special services take place in some old structure with a high roof. (Horse show-rings are big enough, probably. Perhaps the cult's taken over an old breeding/training place, and are bunking down in barns and the house, and/or tents.) Any windows are covered with cloth or painted over. All doors are watched by those afore-mentioned armed guards. A group of humans (and yes, these all do appear to be humans) is arranged all along the walls. They have sheafs of papers that have musical notations on them, and quasi-nonsense syllables. Another group has drums or other simple instruments. Other humans drink alcohol or smoke marijuana in small doses (no stronger drugs), then gather in the middle of the building. Some have obviously done this before -- of those, some are excited and nervous, and some are less sure of themselves, but hopeful. Others are "new" and are either feeling a little silly or excited. Some of both groups are full of religious fervor and awe. Near midnight (or moonrise, or something appropriate), the ceremony starts. The leader or a disciple gives a short sermon, the gist of which is that you should be preparing all your life to fight the evil that is all around us, giving everything to the cause (the leader will seem to emphasize this in a more spiritual sense than some of his disciples), and then, precisely at that nice mystical marker (midnight, moonrise, etc.), the music starts. Low drumming, like a heartbeat. The humans with the papers start singing. Some of them are quite good. Celestials can make a Perception-4 roll to tell that there's some kind of unfocused Essence use. ("It's a use of energy unlike any we've ever seen before, Captain!") For each 15 minutes they concentrate on sensing the Symphony, they reduce that penalty by 1. (Yes, the ceremony will continue that long.) Some of the humans standing in the middle of the area start swaying and humming or singing the nonsense syllables. A few move away and begin to slowly dance. The more self-conscious ones copy the swaying. The music gets faster, wilder. Any *human* PCs get a visceral reaction to it -- increased heartrate, desire to sway, etc. It's not *quite* hypnotic. Many of the humans, including those in the audience, seem to have slipped into a trance state. Some babble in tongues as the ceremony progresses. Those who seemed to "know what they were doing," out in the middle of the floor, have moved away from the others are are dancing in a near-frenzy, making high leaps and twirls. (There aren't many of them -- maybe a half-dozen at most.) Others copy them with an air of desparation. PCs may note that the confident ones are all of the Chosen. (No, not all of them have 6 Forces.) What happens next is up to the GM. When the confident ones exhaust themselves, they'll fall down and start speaking in tongues, thrashing around in what may well be a self-induced seizure. After enough of that happens, dawn breaks, the Singers fall over, or some other time period, the ritual ends, the performers are picked up, dusted off, and carted to bed -- and showtime is over. Case 1: Eventually (or that night, as the GM wishes), Something Will Happen. There is a spike of Essence, and one of the humans sprouts Big Black- Feathered Wings from his or her shoulderblades. While the newbies in the audience gasp, scream, or cheer, the newly-winged human swoops around the room, dancing in midair. This happens as many times as the GM wishes. Case 2: The leader starts off the sermon, but doesn't end it at the normal endpoint. The Singers and Players start anyway, as a background. The leader works him(/her)self up to a frenzy, then stands and Sings! Those aforementioned Big Black Wings spin out from his shoulders, and he takes off, still Singing... The key Songs here are, naturally, Song of Wings, and Song of Transferral. When they actually "go off," the Perception roll to spot them is normal. Most everyone reading this has guessed what's up by now, of course. The remnant has taught the humans the flavor of the Song of Wings that his own nature inspired -- big, black-feathered wings. He's also used the Song of Transferal. And with his Songmaster attunement, he's been unconsciously teaching it to any of the group who have the ability to sense Songs. The regime of exercise and whatnot that the place follows isn't *quite* up to the usual force-growing of the 6th Force that some groups have, but it's got that potential. The Chosen are those who have either performed the Song, or had it randomly Transfered to them by one of the Singers. A lot of them are using Focused Effort (from the CPG) or otherwise semi-consciously blowing all their Essence on the effort. And some of them may have latched onto rituals or nonsense words akin to sorcery, which has rituals that produce effects which are akin to Ethereal or Celestial Songs. (The GM can include a few sorcerers among the humans, at his or her option; be obnoxious, make them non-Fate-aligned.) The Singers are just the humans who can perform the (mangled?) Songs well enough for the leader to teach them that. Yes, music lessons are part of the group's daily regime. Hymns of praise and stranger songs rise from one of the rooms in the stronghold continually. The Players are musicians. Now, of course, the PCs have to decide what they're going to do here. Because eventually, some bright human with 6 Forces is going to realize that he's able to do this *outside* of the ritual, and then there's going to be a self-styled Disciple of the Saviour flying down Main Street on Malakite wings. (Okay, the Kobalites are going to try to *encourage* this, but anyone with sense is going to figure that if they don't stop it, their Superior is going to land on them hard later.) The GM can spice things up with any number of obnoxious Songs running around among the 6-Force humans, and definitely the remnant. You see, most Songmasters are Word-bound, so he's probably got more than the usual 5 Forces that PC remnants get. (Try about 7-9 -- all in Corporeal and Ethereal. Maybe 1-3 points split into his Will and Perception, though no full Celestial Force there.) And he knew a nice number of Songs at the 3-6 level. (Ethereal Shields is a good choice if there are demon PCs trying to use their resonances on him!) And if he *was* Word-bound, he's going to have some Word abilities. And don't forget the human slimeball who's pulling strings as the "power behind the throne," who wants to be the one who is *really* in control of the cult. Variations on a Theme: It *is* a haven for the Other Side, Renegades, Outcasts, Grigori, Children of the Grigori and/or ethereal spirits. (All at once or individually.) This may or may not still have the remnant (he makes a nice patsy); he may or may not view these others as known allies. It's a plot of some human-oriented Superior -- who plans to establish an army of Soldiers with lots of Songs. Some of the Disciples have Ethereal Connection or Celestial Connection, or both. It's a plot by some individual or very small group, as above. (Lilim are amusing here, sure. And a Habbalite for the leader...) Get someone distincted, looking to establish an Earthly powerbase. It's a joke that either isn't ready yet, or is working too well; add Kobalites. It's Kobal himself, trying to find something to amuse himself. It's Eli, gone quite 'round the bend. 'Nuff said. It's an Outcast trying to gather together a group of Soldiers to present to his/her Archangel as an offering so that s/he can come back to Heaven. It's a creation of a *human* -- probably a Soldier of some side or other. Maybe a Gray Soldier who wants a force who can help him stand up to his old masters, maybe one who wants a force who can kick celestials off Earth. Maybe a Soldier in good standing who's recruiting. It's the return of Uriel. He managed to slip a fragment of himself out of the Higher Heavens, but it didn't quite work right. He's got 1 Celestial Force and a lot of amnesia, but he'll get his memories back when he gets to 18 Forces... And his power grows as his little cult does. Have fun... [Beth looks around. There are a bunch of relievers clustered behind her. "I said there's no canon here! It's not canon! It's just an idea, okay? Go away! Shoo, shoo!"] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:22:49 -0500 From: "James M. Zoshak" Subject: Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) >I would actually say that Odin's court would be very big on justice. His >is after all a court of law and norse mythology is riddled with tales of >obeying obligations. Just look at the manner in which odin treats Loki. >He knows that Loki is a cruel and truly evil bastard but because they are >blood brothers he cannot betray Loki. He is all about obeying the rules. >Ben Elohite of Stone Ahem. Loki is NOT a cruel and truly evil bastard. He did quite a bit of good for Asgard and for humanity. I always viewed Odin's sparing him as the result of a balancing test of Loki's good side against his evil side. He always made up for the zlit he pulled... okay, he USUALLY made up for it. He's not a nice guy, but I'll thank you not to call him evil. I know from my own research into Norse culture that the Norsemen were very lawful people -- I'm not denying that -- but I think the punishment for the angels' crime would have to be bloody death, not weregeld. Weregeld is what you demand when a relative gets killed in a duel or by accident. The Norse were not good with mercy at all, and I don't think that Odin would view this situation as one that even REMOTELY called for mercy. Azrael, Malakite of Death. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:25:40 -0500 From: "James M. Zoshak" Subject: Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. >Okay, > > I had in mind for a pre-generated character being a Bright Lilim of >Judgement. (Why Judgement? Why not?) Not to be negative, but I'm REALLY not sure this'd ever happen. Can you tell us why she chose to serve Dominic? Azrael, Malakite of Death. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:30:39 -0500 From: "James M. Zoshak" Subject: Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) >I don't see Odin going berserk on the angels until *after* he passes judgment. >His spear is known as Lawgiver, after all... As I said before, I think his judgement would BE bloody death.... Azrael, Malakite of Death. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:37:58 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) In a message dated 3/26/99 12:23:01 PM, jzoshak@haverford.edu writes: >I know from my own research into Norse culture that the Norsemen were very >lawful people -- I'm not denying that -- but I think the punishment for >the >angels' crime would have to be bloody death, not wergeld. Wergeld is >what you demand when a relative gets killed in a duel or by accident. >The >Norse were not good with mercy at all, and I don't think that Odin would >view this situation as one that even REMOTELY called for mercy. Except: What precisely is the crime of *these* *particular* angels? The Norse were good with personal responsibility in their legal systems. Your cousin couldn't get killed for a crime you committed. Unless one of the characters is a servitor of Purity or has actively harmed Loki, I think they can get off. But we may be barking up different trees, here. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:29:11 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Justice >From: Steel Angel > > >>Whistling in the Dark wrote: >> >>> As for Gabriel, it is possible he *began* his campaign for political >>> reasons, or because it sounded as though she was advocating heresy, >>> but once he was into it he pursued the case honestly. However, the >>> Inquisition is rigourous in its pursuit. >>> >>> And it's certainly as much his fault as anyone's. No one is claiming >>> he isn't overzealousness on a plate. >> >> Yes, but Gabriel -still- went nuts duting the course of the >>investigation. I highly doubt Dominic did anything other angels have had >>to put up with, and Gabriel -cracked-. Shows a bit of a flaw in the AA >>of Fire, wouldn't you think? Not someone you -quite- want to trust with >>such responsibility as Heaven's Messenger. > >The main reason Gabriel cracked when other AAs did not would be the >dissonance generated by having a Word in dispute with the Demon Prince of >Fire. That, in and of itself, has done more to damage her than Dominic's >campaign against her. > >His campaign was just the final stroke that shattered an already weakened >structure, sadly to say... > That's true enough as well, of course. Gabriel has not had a good last couple of millenia. I have therefore decided she actually *is* God and when she figures that out, there'll be some dopeslappin' a plenty. But then, I have a warped sense of justice. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:30:10 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Justice >Well, between being hardwired to God, in permanent Word-friction >with a Demon Prince, and persecuted by Dominic, seems to me >Gabriel has her pick of reasons to be unbalanced. Probably >why Novalis and Jean are joining forces to create a celestial >antidepressant. > >Earl Man, think of the psychotherapy bills.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:32:32 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Justice >Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >> As for Gabriel, it is possible he *began* his campaign for political >> reasons, or because it sounded as though she was advocating heresy, >> but once he was into it he pursued the case honestly. However, the >> Inquisition is rigourous in its pursuit. >> >> And it's certainly as much his fault as anyone's. No one is claiming >> he isn't overzealousness on a plate. > > Yes, but Gabriel -still- went nuts duting the course of the >investigation. I highly doubt Dominic did anything other angels have had >to put up with, and Gabriel -cracked-. Shows a bit of a flaw in the AA >of Fire, wouldn't you think? Not someone you -quite- want to trust with >such responsibility as Heaven's Messenger. > My point exactly. At least in his mind -- yes, there might have been some overzealousness, but at the same time she *did* go insane.... >> Unless, of course, that Creepy Black Cloak is actually a relic that >> keeps the Light of Heaven from his twisted Balseraph form-- > > Or that's why Novalis never appears as an animal with wings, or why >Michael uses a human shape and an -axe- in the Celestial realm. I >actually get the strong impression that AAs can look how they -want- to >look. By the time you are an AA, you're no longer quite bound by a >Choir's 'look'. Well, yeah. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:45:09 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) "James M. Zoshak" wrote: > Ahem. Loki is NOT a cruel and truly evil bastard. He did quite a bit of > good for Asgard and for humanity. I always viewed Odin's sparing him as > the result of a balancing test of Loki's good side against his evil side. > He always made up for the zlit he pulled... okay, he USUALLY made up for > it. He's not a nice guy, but I'll thank you not to call him evil. Not evil, then. Selfish. ;) Yes, some of what he did benefitted humanity and Asgard. All of what he did benefitted _him_. And he was subject to fits of sheer absolute bastardness. (Yes, I count the creation of Fenris Wolf in this category.) And yes, Odin may have spared him -- but it was only for torture. Loki's chained under a mountain, bound by the intestines of his son, with snake venom dripping into his eyes, remember? :) - -EDG - -- EDG, Mercurian of Jean, Angel of Information Dissemination anthoch@earlham.edu "Don't you think that The Netherlands sounds like the sort of country that should be ruled by a Dark Lord?" - {Moogle} ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1180 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.