From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Mar 29 12:53:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA31184 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:53:33 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA20868 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:56:03 -0600 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:56:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199903291856.MAA20868@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1183 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, March 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1183 In this digest: IN> Dominic IN> Uriel & Christianity Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> Dominic IN> INC updated, and other notes Re: IN> Alternate Crusades - The Dream Crusade RE: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Re: IN> Uriel & Christianity Re: IN> Uriel & Christianity IN> Re: Domonic and Lurv (original subject forgotten) Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Re: IN> Re: Domonic and Lurv (original subject forgotten) Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Re: IN> Why on earth can't Malakim fall? Re: IN> CDaU Re: IN> Why on earth can't Malakim fall? Re: IN> Why on earth can't Malakim fall? Re: IN> CDaU Re: IN> Re: New Material/Fresh Ideas Re: IN> Kyriotates and Insects Re: IN> Why on earth can't Malakim fall? Re: IN> Lilim and love Re: IN> CDaU ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:48:28 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Dominic As it happens, I picked up *Heaven and Hell* this weekend. What a coincidence. The pictures of Dominic certainly don't invalidate my first impression. He looks exactly like a lich from Dungeons and Dragons. However, the description of what it must have been like for Dominic to live through the Fall is very evocative. Connecting this with the parts of the APG about how intensely angels love, one can imagine the kind of pain Dominic lives with, since he probably remembers it (and feels it) as if it were yesterday. This explains a great deal. On the other hand, he's not the only one who went through this. It doesn't seem to have had the same effect on Michael or David or Blandine, for example, and we *know* Blandine had her *lover* become her exact opposite in Hell. (Which reminds me. Maybe that's what's wrong with Nicole the Mercurian! I agree that she's an Impudite waiting to happen -- if I'd been writing it, she'd have fallen instead of Tariel. Maybe the loss of Marcus is what made her such a lousy excuse for an angel.) Janet Anderson Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:01:29 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Uriel & Christianity >>>Was Uriel a specific proponent of the Christian Model, or did Purity not require Dogmatic allegiance, but instead merely pure devotion to Heaven and selflessness?<<< I think it's been implied that Uriel supported the Church once it became the dominant power in Rome, since the Roman Empire was the best instrument to unify the rest of the world under a monotheistic model. I don't believe this has been clearly established yet, though. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:25:41 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Dominic On Sun, 28 Mar 1999, Janet Anderson wrote: > On the other hand, he's not the only one who went through this. It > doesn't seem to have had the same effect on Michael or David or > Blandine, for example, and we *know* Blandine had her *lover* become her > exact opposite in Hell. But "don't let it happen again" is the biggest part of Dominic's job description. This makes it very difficult to let the past go. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:51:13 +0100 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic Janet Anderson wrote: >As it happens, I picked up *Heaven and Hell* this weekend. What a >coincidence. Synchronicity, I don't believe in coincidence. >The pictures of Dominic certainly don't invalidate my first impression. >He looks exactly like a lich from Dungeons and Dragons. True, but I think that's just a coincidence (D'oh!). Sure Dominic is scary, but he I think he feels he needs to be to do his job effectively. >However, the description of what it must have been like for Dominic to >live through the Fall is very evocative. Connecting this with the parts >of the APG about how intensely angels love, one can imagine the kind of >pain Dominic lives with, since he probably remembers it (and feels it) >as if it were yesterday. This explains a great deal. > >On the other hand, he's not the only one who went through this. It >doesn't seem to have had the same effect on Michael or David or >Blandine, for example, and we *know* Blandine had her *lover* become her >exact opposite in Hell. 1 No-one else has to do Dom's job. It is a *damn* nasty job (no-one wants to find corruption in Heaven least of all Dommie, but if it's there he will find it), which gets more abuse than thanks. And 2 I can't agree with the idea that since one person can cope with a situation people who can't cope have no excuse. Micheal, David, Blandine and Dominic have very different jobs and are very different creatures, so it's understandable that they're going to react differently. >(Which reminds me. Maybe that's what's wrong with Nicole the Mercurian! >I agree that she's an Impudite waiting to happen -- if I'd been writing >it, she'd have fallen instead of Tariel. But you wouldn't have seen Marcus open himself up to Nicole then. Which both shows how pitiable Marcus is and says a lot about Nicole (exactly what I'm not sure - insufficient data, cannot compute!). >Maybe the loss of Marcus is >what made her such a lousy excuse for an angel.) I'd say that's definetly part of it, but I don't think we know the whole story yet. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of the Wind "First you must learn Fiddling, then you must forget Fiddling. Must you remember to breathing for breathing to occur? No. It is the same with Fiddling" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:49:19 -0500 (EST) From: Eslin Subject: IN> INC updated, and other notes Dropping a line to let everyone know: First - new stuff on the INC. As usual, it's all on the main page; have fun. :) Second - the INC search engine may be performing oddly. This is a known problem. We'll let you know when it's fixed. Third - with my usual wonderful sense of timing, I'm going offlist for two weeks! Travelling cross-continent and, well, my mailbox won't *hold* that much. ;) So - see you all in April, and don't mock me /too/ much while I'm gone. :) - eslin@buffnet.net / chephirah@fiat.justitia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:20:11 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Crusades - The Dream Crusade In reply to: > >>>1) Most of Blandine's servitors are Menunim, for whom such direct action > would almost certainly be dissonant.<<< > I don't think most of Blandine's Servitors are Menunim -- just almost all > Menunim are Blandine's Servitors. IIRC, in The Marches, it states that most of Blandine's servitors are Cherubim. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:23:14 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. In reply to: > Which, by the way, I believe. We don't get much of a chance to see > it, but I imagine Dominic's loyal Servitors have the most devoted > Archangel of the bunch protecting them from outside influences. When > you spend your day rooting out disloyalty, those you *can* trust > become very special to you. But Dominic doesn't trust *anyone* any more. He doesn't know who he can trust. He usd to trust his chief angel Asmodeus implicitly, and look what happened. IMO, Dominic has a heirarchy of his servitors listed from those he is least suspicious of, and increasing to those he is most suspicious of. And occassionally he would do a thorough check of those he is least suspicious of, because they are acting awfully unsuspicious, which is suspicious... Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:24:29 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Whistling wrote: > I disagree. His Servitors are about the *only* Angels he *does* > trust, because he checks them for dissonance weekly and he's always > in contact with them. They are the foundation he rests on, since he > can't be everywhere. So one he doesn't trust for some reason has the > Inquisition brought to bear quickly. He checks them weekly because he doesn't trust any of them. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:10:02 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Leath Sheales wrote: > He checks them weekly because he doesn't trust any of them. Conversely, he could check them weekly because he cares about them enough that if they're accumulating Dissonance he wants to stop it as soon as possible, and weekly is as often as he can possibly get to any one of his servitors. > Leath. - -EDG it depends on the campaign, I guess... - -- EDG, Mercurian of Jean, Angel of Information Dissemination anthoch@earlham.edu "Don't you think that The Netherlands sounds like the sort of country that should be ruled by a Dark Lord?" - {Moogle} ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:52:01 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Uriel & Christianity At 6:01 PM -0500 3/28/99, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Was Uriel a specific proponent of the Christian Model, or did Purity > not require Dogmatic allegiance, but instead merely pure devotion to > Heaven and selflessness?<<< > > > I think it's been implied that Uriel supported the Church once it became > the dominant power in Rome, since the Roman Empire was the best instrument > to unify the rest of the world under a monotheistic model. I don't believe > this has been clearly established yet, though. > > -David Was this after Khalid had become an Archangel? - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:46:05 -0800 From: thealien@dangerzone.org Subject: Re: IN> Uriel & Christianity At 11:52 PM 3/28/99 -0500, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >Was this after Khalid had become an Archangel? > >-- > Eric Alfred Burns | > | > non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com > > Neither Laurence nor Khalid, Uriel's lieutenants, gained Superior status until his departure. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 04:49:58 PST From: "Hydrax 59" Subject: IN> Re: Domonic and Lurv (original subject forgotten) I was recently feeling melancoly, and looking over the list when I remembered a thread I'd read a couple of days ago about Domonic and Lillim. I was thinking about this, when I realised how much like a worried parent Domonic was. So here's a sickeningly sweet writeup of Dommie as good, angsty Seraph goth (he's even got the black cloak!) Note: Much coffee was consumed in the making of this, so don't expect good speling. Or even coherance for that matter. Domonic hurts. Every time he sees one of God's prescious creations twist and writhe in agony as they fall screaming into the heart of the Pit, he hurts. Because he, more then anyone, knows the Truth of what it's like to fall. When Domonic saw one third of his friends, helpers, and confidants fall, and many moer destroyed and he saw what it did to tehm, his heart broke, and he swore that never again would something like that happen. He dedicated his existance to making sure that none of his charges would ever suffer through what the fallen did, and at first he thought his job would be incredibly easy. After all, how could anyone possibly wish to give up the glorius light of heaven fro an hellish existance in ... hell. Domonic had a very nasty wakeup call. He saw angels falling through tehir contact with humanity, through their own pride, he sasw angels falling. And he knew that the love he held for tehm was great enough to allow him to sacrifice his good standing, the love he was given by his remaining friends, every scrap of compassoin that people felt towards him to prevent others from going through teh agony of falling. This has lead to his rigorus campaigns against discord and dissonance - better by far to be sent back into God's welcoming arms then endure teh agony of an eternity without God. Domonic loves the Redeemed, each and every one of them, and because of their unique experience within hell, he woudl do anything to prevent them falling again. But the most beautiful of all the redeemed, by far, to Domonic are the Brights. Here is a creature who was from the very beginnign of their existance brought up to fear and loathe heaven, who has not a trace of the hand of God in their creation, who have nevertheless been able to share in the goodness of God. He loves tehm with a strength that burns. And they can read his need, for love, for affection, for a friendly ear, and it swamps them. "For a flower smells sweeter when it's growing in manure" Anyway, this is the fluffy, angsty Domonic who thinks of hell as some people would think of a site which produced X - rated, pedophilic, child rape videos. And a reason why there are so many PC brights in service to him. It's not as good as it could have been, but then, I'm tired, and it if it makes one person out of a thousand think differently, it was worth it. A thought: should the Lillim resonance be renamed to detect wants, and the Bright Lillim to detect needs? Makes more sense to me. Sorry about the length of the quotes, but they seemed ... appropriate "Dear God!" "No. You see, he no longer knows your name. Welcome to the place that is everything that he isn't." Satan welcoming Skurge to hell, Vortex. "O Lord, remember not only the men of goodwill, but also the men of ill will. But do not remember all the suffering they have inflicted on us, remember the fruits we have gathered thanks to this suffering - our comradeship, our loyalty, our humility, the courage, the generosity, the greatness of heart which has grown out of this - and when tehy come to judgement, let all the fruits which we ahve borne be their forgiveness." Prayer found in concentration camp, author unknown, presumed dead. Now that's faith. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:48:48 +0100 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. Leath Sheales wrote on 29 March 1999 >In reply to: > >> Which, by the way, I believe. We don't get much of a chance to see >> it, but I imagine Dominic's loyal Servitors have the most devoted >> Archangel of the bunch protecting them from outside influences. When >> you spend your day rooting out disloyalty, those you *can* trust >> become very special to you. > >But Dominic doesn't trust *anyone* any more. He doesn't know who he >can trust. He usd to trust his chief angel Asmodeus implicitly, and >look what happened. IMO, Dominic has a heirarchy of his servitors >listed from those he is least suspicious of, and increasing to those >he is most suspicious of. And occassionally he would do a thorough >check of those he is least suspicious of, because they are acting >awfully unsuspicious, which is suspicious... I would generally agree with that, except I think he does trust Yves. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of the Wind "Balseraph of Theft you say, why the very idea is absurd! I *am* a Seraph of the Wind. No, really!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:10:03 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. On Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 03:17:00AM -0800, Steel Angel wrote: > I don't see -how-. Dominic doesn't make a big deal about -how- you do > your job, as long as you -do- it. I don't see that. A lot of what Judgement is about is discriminating between right and wrong. I don't see Dominic as having some of the ruthless qualities exhibited by the likes of Michael and Janus, though he can certainly choose a lesser evil over a greater one. Remember, he works with -The Game- > when he must, and so do his servitors. (Tan: I've heard the argument that Dominic working with the Game when necessary is proof of his integrity.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "I shall stomp upon all who oppose me. The stomping shall be swift. The stomping shall be painful. And I shall show no mercy In all of my stomping. Amen." - Jeff Tidball philosophises. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:38:29 +0100 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Domonic and Lurv (original subject forgotten) - -----Original Message----- From: Hydrax 59 To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 29 March 1999 13:58 Subject: IN> Re: Domonic and Lurv (original subject forgotten) >I was recently feeling melancoly, and looking over the list when I >remembered a thread I'd read a couple of days ago about Domonic and >Lillim. I was thinking about this, when I realised how much like a >worried parent Domonic was. So here's a sickeningly sweet writeup of >Dommie as good, angsty Seraph goth (he's even got the black cloak!) His cloak is Brown! What self respected Goth would wear *that* shade of brown. But the bilowing effect is soooo cool! :-) But seriously I do see Dominic as a very tragic individual, I don't think he has enough time to deal with his agst though. >Note: Much coffee was consumed in the making of this, so don't expect >good speling. Or even coherance for that matter. > >Domonic hurts. Every time he sees one of God's prescious creations twist >and writhe in agony as they fall screaming into the heart of the Pit, he >hurts. Because he, more then anyone, knows the Truth of what it's like >to fall. I was going to disagree that Dominic doesn't know what is like to fall, that he doesn't know what it is to be cut off from all of creation, alone and blind to the beauty of the True Symphony. But, you know what? Amongst the angels who have never been demons, I think Dominic is the angel who knows most of what it is to be alone. >He dedicated his existance to making sure that none of his charges would >ever suffer through what the fallen did, and at first he thought his job >would be incredibly easy. After all, how could anyone possibly wish to >give up the glorius light of heaven fro an hellish existance in ... >hell. This bit I do disagree with, Dominic knows what it is to be swayed, he concidered serving under Lucifer to collect the prize of being the Demon of Judgement, he concidered betraying all he knew to be True for himself. Which is part of the reason why he trusts no-one* and nothing, why he can never let his guard down, why he can never put his Faith in anyone** or anything - everything must face Judgement. *(excepting Yves IMO) **BTW I really like the conversation between Yves and Dom in The Final Trumpet, and the crisis of Faith that Khalid goes through, unfortunately someone got my Final Trumpet so I can't re-read it. Which reminds me, after Khalid becomes more tolerant do his servitors keep the Slay an athiest Rite? Despite the slight disagreements I think it's Cool. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of the Wind "Balseraph of Theft you say, why the very idea is absurd! I *am* a Seraph of the Wind. No, really!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:35:35 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Odin's Court (An Idea...) Odin is sufficently tricky that the Roman's identified with Mercury (with Hermes with Thoth with Nebo), the trickster god of *their* pantheon. That's why Odin's day is Woden's day is Wednesday in English is Mercredi in French is Mercury's day. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:51:42 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Dominic Michael, David, Blandine, and Dominic all reacted to the Fall with anger, but with different colors of it. Dominic's anger is mixed with fear -- fear of more falls. Blandine's anger is mixed with grief. She's Hurt, big time. Micheal and David, simple (but not stupid) and primal creatures that they are, are just plain angry. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:58:13 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Oaths, Bright Lilim & Judgement. On "he checks weekly because he loves them" vs. "he checks weekly because he doesn't trust them" -- these are not mututally exclusive. It is perfectly possible to not trust someone you love. Ask any of a large number of parents, spouses, silbings, or children of addicts, for instance. Addicts are hideously untrustworthy unless you are trusting them to pursue their addiction, but the ones who manage to pull out are usually the ones who have some other people to help do the pulling. That's what Alcoholics Anonymous is, on a non-familial level. Earl (I can see it now: Dissonance Anonymous. And, wow, can they put you in touch with a Higher Power...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:38:35 PST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Why on earth can't Malakim fall? The Earl Spake: >Perry Lloyd wrote: > >> I've often wondered this myself. If every angel were a Malakite, >> Heaven would probably we winning the war by now. > >If every angel were a Malakite: > > - Heaven would be blind, because it would have no truth-seers. Except for those with the Songs of Symphony > - Heaven would more often lose track of those it set to guard. Except for those with the Songs of Attraction > - Heaven would be lame, because it would have no swift couriers. Except for those with the Songs of Motion > - Heaven would be headstrong, without balance and objectivity. Except for those with the Songs of Harmony > - Heaven would have no access to mortal bodies or multiple vessels. Except for those with the Song of Possession > - Heaven would have no insight into human hearts. For this, I see no substitute. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Never be rash with your mouth, nor let your heart be quick to utter a word before God, for God is in heaven, and you upon earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes 5:2 Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:06:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> CDaU At 5:33 AM +0000 3/26/99, Paul Golds wrote: >What most bothers me about CDaU is whether these things are going >to remain as CDaU forever, or get expanded upon in future sourcebooks. Most CDaU is intended to remain that way forever. There are some questions which I have not *answered* definitively, which probably *will* be expanded on. I have tried to keep these separate, but others may have lumped them together. >On another note, are the books from now on going to be more consistant? I bloody well *hope* so... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:02:53 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Why on earth can't Malakim fall? > The Earl Spake: >>Perry Lloyd wrote: >> >>> I've often wondered this myself. If every angel were a Malakite, >>> Heaven would probably we winning the war by now. >> >>If every angel were a Malakite: >> [Many examples of how Malakim could use Songs to replace most of the resonances of the missing Choirs.] How about... Heaven would be doomed for they would have no perspective. At their heart, Malakim are the warriors. The ones with the swords, guns and attitude. They are the shock troops. They are so fearsome there are rumors they can't fall because they're actually demons. A heart devoted to war cannot see all the thousands of ways that humanity can be better. They can only strike down those who are worse. If every angel were a Malakite, Heaven would be the place the Demons claim it is now, and ultimately the Demons would be the good guys. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:23:30 -0500 From: "James M. Zoshak" Subject: Re: IN> Why on earth can't Malakim fall? >> - Heaven would have no insight into human hearts. > >For this, I see no substitute. I think the Malakim would argue that this was unnecessary. Azrael, Malakite of Death. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:26:28 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> CDaU At 10:32 PM -0500 3/26/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >I for one would *love* to see the Superior Extended Dance Mixes in >one book. Just as a note, count up the pages... And how much the pages cost... (128 pages is the minimum number of pages that people like to pay for, and close to the maximum price, apparently.) Words per page are approximately 625. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:27:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: New Material/Fresh Ideas At 8:03 PM -0800 3/26/99, Hydrax 59 wrote: >Perhaps even In Fiction? SJ Games doesn't have the license to produce IN fiction. Don't ask me why not -- it could be anything from price to Croc hating what happened to Eli and the invention of Lilith to simply not having the time during the recent (current, probably, too) roleplaying games slump. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:31:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates and Insects At 11:30 AM -0500 3/27/99, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Right. It's plants and machines which require a >>special attunement. And insects. >> >In Nomine, p.191, "Only Jordi's Kyriotates may manifest as insects." I'd forgotten to go look at the animal-stats. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:34:58 +0100 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Why on earth can't Malakim fall? Perry Lloyd wrote: >The Earl Spake: >>Perry Lloyd wrote: >> >>> I've often wondered this myself. If every angel were a Malakite, >>> Heaven would probably we winning the war by now. >> >>If every angel were a Malakite: >> >> - Heaven would be blind, because it would have no truth-seers. > >Except for those with the Songs of Symphony Erm Songs of Symphony cost 4 essence per shot, not really that practical. >> - Heaven would more often lose track of those it set to guard. > >Except for those with the Songs of Attraction They only mimic one part of the Cherubs Res. remember the bonus of the cherub's Celestial forces to any roll to protect their charge. >> - Heaven would be lame, because it would have no swift couriers. > >Except for those with the Songs of Motion > Can they tell you where the nearest libary is? Sorry, obviously you would use 4 essence and use a song of Symphony if you needed that kind of information. Can they allow you to do *anything * quickly? >> - Heaven would be headstrong, without balance and objectivity. > >Except for those with the Songs of Harmony Wait, are you trying to say those with Songs of Harmony would use them on themselves to think rationally? >> - Heaven would have no access to mortal bodies or multiple vessels. > >Except for those with the Song of Possession > That still doesn't allow multiple vessels to act in true union, oh Wait you could just use the Song of Battle for that! >> - Heaven would have no insight into human hearts. > >For this, I see no substitute. If heaven went round using songs for everything, Hell would notice pretty damn quickly, and the War could not be conducted as it is now, try guiding a soul to their destiny when every action you take to do it alerts the local demons that you're interested in this one. Ramesh aka Angel of Fiddling, Seraph of the Wind "Balseraph of Theft you say, why the very idea is absurd! I *am* a Seraph of the Wind. No, really!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:47:10 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and love At 10:24 AM -0800 3/28/99, Janet Anderson wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy recently discussed how a (potentially Bright) Lilim >would view the idea of voluntarily serving someone out of love. I agree >that this attitude proves she's on her way to redemption; in my opinion, >no Lilim could even *think* this way unless she were. *nodnodnod* And she acknowledges that there is a price to love -- and that price *is* that you love. That someone else's joys make you happy means that their grief will make you sad. That you take pleasure in their company means that, in turn, you pay the price that you will want to act to give them pleasure. The price of loving someone is loving someone. Whether you think it's worth the price or not -- well, what you answer is what indicates whether or not you're on the fast track to wings. >(How many choirs and Demon Princes take dissonance if they allow >themselves to care about their victims?) (Bands, you mean? Mostly just Andre, though a Habbalite who cares about someone *weak* is going to be in trouble for other reasons. But it does tend to *cripple* demons, if they can't use their resonances at whim.) >This of course does not apply to Bright Lilim in my opinion. However, I >know of a Bright Lilim of Trade who disagrees. The player thereof >expresses the opinion that unconditional love is contrary to the Lilim >mindset even when Bright, that commitment and the idea of two people >"belonging" to each other, giving themselves to each other, could not be >a part of any Lilim relationship. If you go further, it's really impossible for *angels* to have that mindset. Angels love. They don't love "one person, forsaking all others." They *LOVE*. If they choose to express this love in tactile (or even sexual) manners, they do so. And there is no jealousy, because all angels know that they are connected in the Symphony. The focus isn't on who you love, or what you love (except maybe for Archangels and Words), but *that* you love. If anything, the "belonging" part of love is the love that leads an angel to serve a Word and Archangel. Which indicates that the Bright of Trade has already really made that commitment, whether she realizes it or not. O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:50:08 -0500 (EST) From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman) Subject: Re: IN> CDaU At 1:26 PM 3/29/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >Just as a note, count up the pages... And how much the pages cost... >Words per page are approximately 625. Counter-note: Extended Superior Dance Mixes (which is a damned cool appellation and will be stolen) for all the presently available superiors in a single book, not just the ones that have been done so far. And, on a minor chord: We've got the CPG, the IPG and the APG. Only one realm to go. EPG, anyone? - - Jason - --- jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (life) Amalgam of the Day: Wesley Dodds and werther@hilander.com (play) Tom Servo in SANDMAN MYSTERY THEATRE jayafter12am@hotmail.com (late-night) 3000. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1183 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.