From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Apr 4 12:48:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02281 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:48:54 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA11913 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:47:21 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:47:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199904041747.MAA11913@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1189 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, April 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1189 In this digest: IN> Cherubs and Djinn Re: IN> Cherubim and Djinn Re: IN> Cherubs and Djinn Re: IN> Cherubim and Djinn IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine Re: IN> Cherubim and Djinn IN> Relic Limitations / Fate-Destiny Questions Re: IN> Relic Limitations / Fate-Destiny Questions Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine Re: IN> Relic Limitations / Fate-Destiny Questions IN> NITPICKING (Re: Relic Limitations / Fate-Destiny Questions) Re: IN> NITPICKING IN> Plot Seed: Easter Mayhem. Re: IN> Why on earth can't Malakim fall? Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:08:55 -0600 (CST) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: IN> Cherubs and Djinn As we all know the afromention Celestial Beings are winged animals, or in the case of Djinn, animal Mishmashes in Celstial Form so what do the Supirors look like. Blandine & Novalis: For some reason i'd have to say Unicorns in both cases. Beleth: Black Horse with Rams horns wolf teeth and glowing red eyes Asdomoneus: Not pick up any visual. Comments, Riducle, Actual activty on this list. Bradley Paranial, who is wondering which Demon Prince is gonna get OJ when he dies ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:31:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Cherubim and Djinn At 1:08 PM -0600 4/3/99, paranial@creighton.edu wrote: >As we all know the afromention Celestial Beings are winged animals, or in >the case of Djinn, animal Mishmashes in Celstial Form so what do the >Superiors look like. > >Blandine & Novalis: For some reason i'd have to say Unicorns in both >cases. When channeling K.K. (in the Rogue's Gallery of the INC [*]), I have to say that Novalis does giant hummingbird. Or ladybug, if you must have a predator... O;> I've generally seen Blandine as a snow-leapord, myself. (And Cherub- Beleth as a panther.) >Beleth: Black Horse with Rams horns wolf teeth and glowing red eyes Cross between a Peke dog and a panther and a bear... Unless she's adding in the black-widow appearance. (Sure, let her twist her appearance as she wishes!) >Asdomoneus: Not pick up any visual. I generally picture him as a cross between a chinese dragon and a Shedite. (Black, scaly, dripping, and all twisted around so that you don't want to look, studded with stubby wings and grasping claw-hands. Sightless eyesockets burning with flickering darkness, staring through you and laying your soul bare.) [* INC = In Nomine Collection, www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles -- an unofficial batch of files that SJ Games kindly hosts on its server.] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:46:39 -0500 From: "James M. Zoshak" Subject: Re: IN> Cherubs and Djinn >As we all know the afromention Celestial Beings are winged animals, or in >the case of Djinn, animal Mishmashes in Celstial Form so what do the >Supirors look like. Don't Superiors have the capacity to appear however they want? Honest question.... >Bradley Paranial, who is wondering which Demon Prince is gonna get OJ when >he dies Easy. Nybbas. Azrael, Malakite of Death. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 22:16:53 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> Cherubim and Djinn >>Asdomoneus: Not pick up any visual. > >I generally picture him as a cross between a chinese dragon and a >Shedite. (Black, scaly, dripping, and all twisted around so that >you don't want to look, studded with stubby wings and grasping >claw-hands. Sightless eyesockets burning with flickering darkness, >staring through you and laying your soul bare.) I picture him more like a giant fly thousans of eyes and always open or maybe even blinking in a sweeping patterns. All of the eyes large enough that you see your reflection staring back from each one. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:40:30 -0700 From: "Andrew Bonham" Subject: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine I'm gonna be running a one shot adventure for IN soon, and I need some advice.... In the game, the characters are going to be ordinary teenagers, all adopted (actually, children of the Grigori), who get swept up into the War as their metropolitan high school becomes a locus of celestial inquiry... anyway, here's my question: What Superiors (divine an infernal) would be interested in High School/HS Students? Immediately, Christopher, Yves and Kronos come to mind.... but who else, and why? Andrew J Bonham, who knows its cheesy, but it'll be fun! ParadoxPhilosopher@worldnet.att.net The Druid's Circle: http://home.att.net/~paradoxphilosopher/ "Imagination is more powerful than knowledge" -Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 01:14:15 -0500 From: Matthew Rice Subject: Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine Andrew Bonham wrote: > > I'm gonna be running a one shot adventure for IN soon, and I need some > advice.... > > In the game, the characters are going to be ordinary teenagers, all adopted > (actually, children of the Grigori), who get swept up into the War as their > metropolitan high school becomes a locus of celestial inquiry... anyway, > here's my question: > > What Superiors (divine an infernal) would be interested in High School/HS > Students? > > Immediately, Christopher, Yves and Kronos come to mind.... but who else, > and why? > David, in encouraging kids to get organized (be it in gangs or in school organizations), is a possibility. So is Andrealphus, all set to take advantage of those raging hormones; Eli works to encourage safe sex (but not necessarily abstinance). Michael supports individual, competitive sports; Janus loves to spread a little healthy subversion here and there. Fleurity likes to get them hooked young, and Beleth probably (definitely) enjoys preying on adolescent anxieties. Kobal gets a giggle out of the everyday cruelties that children can inflict. And kids are Nybbas's most important audience. Huh. Demon Princes LOVE kids. Go figure. - -- Matthew Rice "The Master said, Just as to sacrifice to ancestors other than one's own is presumption, so to see what is right and not do it is cowardice." - -- Confucius, The Analects, II:24 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 01:17:05 -0500 From: "James M. Zoshak" Subject: Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine >I'm gonna be running a one shot adventure for IN soon, and I need some >advice.... > >In the game, the characters are going to be ordinary teenagers, all adopted >(actually, children of the Grigori), who get swept up into the War as their >metropolitan high school becomes a locus of celestial inquiry... anyway, >here's my question: ANIME IN NOMINE! > >What Superiors (divine an infernal) would be interested in High School/HS >Students? > >Immediately, Christopher, Yves and Kronos come to mind.... but who else, >and why? If you take the Anime High School approach, definitely Kobal, just for the inanity of it all, Andrealphus -- SO MANY TEENAGE GIRLS IN SCHOOLGIRL UNIFORMS! Not to mention the leches.... Michael, because what's an Anime without HUGE QUANTITIES OF UNNECESSARY VIOLENCE? Um, is there a Demon Prince of Tentacled Horror? Ooh -- Malphas! All of those warring clubs? Nybbas -- grr. I hate GAP commercials... and the clones they spawn.... The good guys would definitely be outnumbered, but isn't that how it is supposed to be? Of course, all of this assumes that there is already a reason why THIS PARTICULAR high school is the subject of divine interest, but that's never been a problem for Anime before.... :) Azrael, Malakite of Death. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 01:21:07 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine At 10:40 PM -0700 4/3/99, Andrew Bonham wrote: >I'm gonna be running a one shot adventure for IN soon, and I need some >advice.... > >In the game, the characters are going to be ordinary teenagers, all adopted >(actually, children of the Grigori), who get swept up into the War as their >metropolitan high school becomes a locus of celestial inquiry... anyway, >here's my question: > > >What Superiors (divine an infernal) would be interested in High School/HS >Students? > >Immediately, Christopher, Yves and Kronos come to mind.... but who else, >and why? > Michael, because they're at the age where their individual drives are coming out. Those could be shaped to the War. Novalis, because encouraging growth in harmony is what she does. Blandine and Beleth both -- dreams are so powerful at that age. Nybbas, as they're *such* a good demographic. Andrephalus... so young, so firm.... Kobal and Malphas both.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 03:31:55 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine Andrew Bonham wrote: > What Superiors (divine an infernal) would be interested in High School/HS > Students? > Immediately, Christopher, Yves and Kronos come to mind.... but who else, > and why? Blandine. Hopes and dreams are _so_ powerful at that age. David. Organizing the children into groups, giving them the so-called "solid background". Dominic. Have you seen the student handbooks these places have? Dominic also probably vastly encourages the honor system. Eli. Inspiring creative thinking in children the world over. Also, he probably has a hand in a lot of genetics and chemistry classes. (Yes, I learned rudimentary genetics in high school.) Gabriel. Or at least one of her servitors, demonstrating what happens to bullies and their ilk. Also in the form of reform and administration revamping. Janus. Transfer students, petty theft, and fleeting teenage trends. Jean. Or at least one of his servitors, in the Tech. Ed. department. Jordi. At my school, we had a bioculture section. (It went with the horticulture and agriculture sections.) However, Jordi is probably more suited for an elementary school... Laurence. Uncle Sam wants _you_. Also, encouraging enrollment in martial arts courses, I think. Marc. A trip to the mall, anyone? Michael. School sports, military recruitment (he's in with Laurence on that one), history texts (all full of conquest and such.) Novalis. Because the hippie movement is back in style. Also because of organizations analogous to "H.O.P.E." (Hereford's Organization to Protect the Environment, the environmental club at my school). Yves. The guy is _such_ a guidance counselor. Zadkiel. All those _children_ to _protect_...! School security is her demesnes. Andrealphus. All those hormones are so ripe for picking. The "Catholic schoolgirl" also has certain associations in modern culture. (I think of "the Kentucky Fried Movie" whenever I hear the phrase, myself.) Asmodeus. In with Malphas for the intrigue and the backstabbing. Baal. Encouraging the rampant fascination with weapons of mass destruction. Also military recruiting. Beleth. Hopes and dreams are all well and good, but what happens if they fail? The Princess of Nightmares is mainly concerned with teenage insecurity (as is her servitor Zit, Habbalite Demon of Teenage Acne). Belial. This Prince is mainly interested in a school as he is in any other building - how to best burn it to the ground. However, pyromania has been on the rise lately, and a fire alarm or a sprinkler system is a great way to get out of class... Fleurity. Underage drinking, smoking, marijuana use... you name it, the kids are doing it, and it's got his name all over it. Haagenti. He's all over school cafeterias - you don't want to eat the stuff, but you do anyway... Kobal. All the pranks played, the jokes pulled, the substitute teachers sent home in tears, all are tribute to the Prince of Dark Humor. Kronos. Again, this guy is _such_ a guidance counselor. Lilith. From animal rights activism to taking a year off after graduation... Malphas. In with Asmodeus on the backstabbing and intrigue, he's also encouraging school spirit, cliques, and the Gifted&Talented/Honors programs. Nybbas. Soap operas, MTV, the boob tube in general. The Prince of the Media couldn't possibly have asked for a better audience. He's also behind the current "thin-as-a-rail" fashion trend. Saminga. He's behind both the Goth scene and the rise of teenage suicide... Valefor. From petty theft through gangs to grand theft auto, Valefor's got a hand in everyone's pocket. Vapula. Television shows such as "Dexter's Laboratory" do wonders for Vapula, and the physics classes and Tech. Ed. department are great spawning grounds. - -EDG take your pick. - -- EDG, Mercurian of Jean, Angel of Information Dissemination anthoch@earlham.edu "Saints have been tempted by the devil." "You're not a saint." "Exactly. That's why I fell." - Milly and Wormold, "Our Man In Havana" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 03:39:40 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> Cherubim and Djinn On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 1:08 PM -0600 4/3/99, paranial@creighton.edu wrote: > >As we all know the afromention Celestial Beings are winged animals, > >or in the case of Djinn, animal Mishmashes in Celstial Form so what > >do the Superiors look like. [snippage] > >Beleth: Black Horse with Rams horns wolf teeth and glowing red eyes > Cross between a Peke dog and a panther and a bear... Unless she's > adding in the black-widow appearance. (Sure, let her twist her > appearance as she wishes!) it's already been established that Superiors can look however they like (see Michael) regardless of Choir/Band, but i think a central quality of Beleth's appearance--and the only consistency--is that she looks like whatever the person or people seeing her fear most, but not limited by the perceptions of those who witness her (the way the antagonist from IT was). even to her Servitors, i picture Beleth appearaning as no less than terrifying whenever she shows herself. this does mean she'd take on multiple appearances if more than one person looked at her, but hey, she's a Superior--she can do stuff like that ;) [more snippage] -=|horsefly|=- "Back off, preacher, I don't care if it's Sunday. I ain't no angel, but I never felt better!" --FREEDOM, Alice Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 01:15:28 +0100 From: Molt Subject: IN> Relic Limitations / Fate-Destiny Questions Just got my hands on the LR, and ended up wondering a few things about the relic limits. It's possible for a relic to be limited to use by Angels, Demons, or Humans, but can this limitation be fooled? I was thinking, specifically, about if a Demon with the Humanity attunement can use a Human-only relic, but unable to use Demon-only relics. Also, can Kronos' Belseraphs use their claims to Angelic resonances enough to lie to the Symphony and use an Angel-only relic? Whilst thinking about Kronos I also remembered something I ended up dealing with whilst dealing with one of his followers in a game I ran. A PC Demon determined that a certain human's Fate was to kill his mother, but later on in the game session a different PC demon killed the mother. I played it that the Human had successfully avoided their Fate in this life, but is that right? If a human had the Destiny to become the world's foremost child pianist, who's music would soothe leaders and avoid a war, would they still have the same Destiny further down the line when they've ended up in the army fighting in the very war they were Destined to prevent? In short, is Destiny (and Fate) a fluid possibility which gets reduced as someone goes through life, or an absolute determined at birth, or even determined when a Celestial looks at it? Molt... Demon of Stupid Questions ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:32:47 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Relic Limitations / Fate-Destiny Questions > Just got my hands on the LR, and ended up wondering a few things about >the relic limits. It's possible for a relic to be limited to use by >Angels, Demons, or Humans, but can this limitation be fooled? As a Malakite of Fate, I too would like to know the answer to this question. Certainly any GM could rule one way or another, but perhaps a Canon clarification will help. It's not like this falls under CDaU after all. . . >Kronos' Belseraphs use their claims to Angelic resonances enough to lie (BTW, It's Balseraphim for the plural, and Balseraph for the singular. I'll take that Nitpicking Essence now. . .) >In short, is Destiny (and Fate) a fluid possibility which gets >reduced as someone goes through life, or an absolute determined at birth, >or even determined when a Celestial looks at it? My take on it is thus: When a Servitor of Fate (or those accursed and whiney Destiny freaks) use their gifts to see potentials involved, they see what would happen if the victim in question -freely- chose their course in life. This means the more Celestials interfere with the pathetic fools life, the less likely they'll be able to reach their Fate like the good little sheep they are. Supposedly, everything in creation has a Fate (and a Destiny *grumble*). This is hardwired into the Symphony. The thing is, that humanity has -free will- to chose either extreme (and in some cases, both!). Think of it like one of those 'Choose Your Own Adventure' style of books. A multitude of endings are written in the books and it is up to you, the reader, to determine the course the story flows. And you can -trust- me on that. Would I lie? *evil grin* >Molt... Demon of Stupid Questions There are no stupid questions, just stupid Superiors like Saminga & David. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:00:18 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine At 10:40 PM -0700 4/3/99, Andrew Bonham wrote: >What Superiors (divine an infernal) would be interested in High School/HS >Students? > >Immediately, Christopher, Yves and Kronos come to mind.... but who else, >and why? I could probably make a case for almost any of them... Zadkiel would protect anyone. Eli's random -- are any creative? Great! Gabriel's also random, and taps into prophecy sometimes! If she gets an impulse, she goes with it. Janus can blow through anywhere, and likes people who might cause chaos. Aren't teenagers getting into that rebellious stage...? Jean likes ensuring that there are scientists and whatnot around to discover technologies so he doesn't *have* to try leaking it. (In our campaign, he's been known to grumble (off-camera, to other NPCs) about how many times he arranged for lightning to strike trees in front of humans before the thick-headed dullards realized they could use the fire.) Inteligent kids who aren't afraid of thinking are good! Jordi likely wouldn't care unless animals were involved. Blandine likes those with wonderful dreams for the future. David likes groups -- SCA, Boy Scouts, film club... Admittedly, he prefers the sports teams, because they're usually more physically fit, but hey. Dominic might delegate someone to deal with something *very* unjust. Khalid (AA, post-FT) could be involved in any situation which brought faith into things. He's probably in favor of prayer in schools and religious schools. Laurence cares about honorable, devout people. What better time to find them than young so that his Servitors can nurture their good qualities? Marc doesn't neglect the toy trade, or any other fad. (Though he'd often like to pound Nybbas a little because of them...) Michael doesn't care about age, if there's a young hero in the making. Novalis likes peace and kindness, growth and nurturing. Andrealphus thinks getting people young is wonderful, on so many levels. Asmodeus plays the Game where-ever it shows up -- and one of his Tethers is a boys' school. Baal is like Michael -- if you can find a weapon, you don't argue overmuch about its age. Beleth likes nightmares. All the time. Children are lovely to break... or recruit! (The Night Screamers in the CPG are all kids, whose horrible imaginations teach *her* demons a thing or two!) Belial'd rather burn down the school -- or get a kid to do it for him. Can't get people firebugging at an early enough age for him! Fleurity is Prince of Drugs. What more need be said? Hey, he'll take his Essence from illegal cigs and alcohol if that's what he can get. He'll get them used to breaking the rules that way now, and then later... Haagenti likes gluttony -- whether it's the Cardboard Crack of CCGs, pizza-scarfing, peeper-stuffing, or anything else that a kid could get into. Kids and he probably have similar senses of humor, too. All this, *and* they're tasty! (_A Modest Proposal_, anyone?) Kobal likes nasty jokes, and nasty jokers -- and remember, he used to be the one opposing Yves. His Servitors probably "start with the young" now and again anyway, just to show up Kronos. ("His destiny was to discover a cure for cancer, and his fate was to develop a biological weapon? Fine, fine -- HE'S GONNA RUN AWAY AND JOIN THE CIRCUS AND DIE A DRUG ADDICT! How's *that* for funny!") Malphas likes factions, and cares not where... PTA, educational department of city hall, student teams, cliques... Mammon promotes "haves" and "have-nots" so that the Haves will hoard their possessions lest the Have Nots get it, and the Have Nots try to hoard what *they* can as well. And if he can get the little monkeys to have expensive tastes early, so much the better. Nybbas also likes to catch his viewers early. TV, the great american babysitter... Saminga doesn't like kids. They should be dead. And their little dog, too. Valefor thinks it's great when kids start shoplifting... A little gum here, a comic there, some alcohol (stolen or bought with a fake ID), and next thing you know, they're going for Grand Theft Aircraft Carrier! Vapula's like Jean in that he'd like to encourage more science. Mad Scientist kids are great. Get 'em early, encourage the species to EVOLVE! And Lilith is against authority figures. Student government is government. School administration is beauracracy. Bring it down! Bring it down! (And when you get done with that, you can take out City Hall, and then the state capitol, and then the country...) (And aside from Lilith, Lilim love being able to get kids such trivial stuff for such big Geases which can be called in later in life! You want a prom date with a babe? No problem!! You need that zit gone? Song of Healing and that'll be a Geas/3, please.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:00:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Relic Limitations / Fate-Destiny Questions At 1:15 AM +0100 4/4/99, Molt wrote: > Just got my hands on the LR, and ended up wondering a few things about >the relic limits. It's possible for a relic to be limited to use by >Angels, Demons, or Humans, but can this limitation be fooled? Up to the GM -- but I'd think, plausibly, yes, in some cases. >I was >thinking, specifically, about if a Demon with the Humanity attunement can >use a Human-only relic, but unable to use Demon-only relics. I could *easily* see that. (With the sole exception of things which were created by Lucifer or God -- which *might* be usable, or might not.) >Also, can >Kronos' Belseraphs use their claims to Angelic resonances enough to lie >to the Symphony and use an Angel-only relic? Since Kronos' Balseraphs can use Choir-restricted Songs for their Choir resonance, there's a good chance of that -- though I'd be more inclined to think that it would work for *Choir*-restricted items more than *Angel*-restricted items. You see, a Balseraph of Fate will still fry in the Light of Heaven, so he's obviously not an *angel*, but is more like a "demonic Cherub" (or whatever). He has the Cherub-nature enough to fool things, but not the angel-nature... You might make them roll their Perception each time, to use an angel-item -- you see, it's checking their openness to the Symphony, and they have to be focusing on their connection. Of course, on a Divine Intervention, they might just hear a little *too much* Symphony... (Can anyone say, "Equivalent of DI on Emptiness for Habbalah"?) > Whilst thinking about Kronos I also remembered something I ended up >dealing with whilst dealing with one of his followers in a game I ran. >A PC Demon determined that a certain human's Fate was to kill his mother, >but later on in the game session a different PC demon killed the mother. >I played it that the Human had successfully avoided their Fate in this >life, but is that right? It seems plausible, yes -- though you could (and I would) expand that to mother-figures. An adopted mother, a "she's always been like a mother to me" mentor/teacher/neighbor down the street, etc. >If a human had the Destiny to become the world's >foremost child pianist, who's music would soothe leaders and avoid a war, >would they still have the same Destiny further down the line when they've >ended up in the army fighting in the very war they were Destined to >prevent? In short, is Destiny (and Fate) a fluid possibility which gets >reduced as someone goes through life, or an absolute determined at birth, >or even determined when a Celestial looks at it? Destiny and fate are as "hard" or "soft" as a GM can deal with, usually. My preferences (which yes, probably do leak) are that destinies/fates should be a bit vague. So you don't get, "Destiny: to prevent _this_ war" -- you get, "Destiny: to prevent _a_ military war." It's been proposed on the list (but I don't think it's made it into canon) that those who are reincarnated are those who have a destiny or fate that hasn't been fulfilled, so they get another try at it. Keep hoping that you can prevent _a_ military war. (Or start one...) By this model, someone who had a fixed destiny/fate -- e.g., "Kill your birth-mother, who was born Eunice Gladstone, of James Gladstone and Rebecca Gladstone nee Tobison" -- will be dissolved into the Symphony upon death if their destiny/fate is no longer achievable. I think that making things a bit more vague and open-ended both enhances Free Will *and* the spookiness of both Yves and Kronos. They see potential futures, oh yes, and sometimes in great clarity -- but not always *enough* clarity to be sure they're tampering in the optimal way. And then there's my spouse-GM's notion. If you push the Symphony, it pushes back. Someone has to *accept* their fate or destiny, and all your manipulations will fail if you cross that fuzzy line between manipulation and pushing. Example of this, in our campaign: A Habbalite of Fate teamed up with a Shedite and an agent of Lust, and bought a Geas on a Free Lilim (PC) to make her help with her scheme. The scheme: find suitably-fated children, and break them. The Habbalite set out to be the Other Woman to mess with this human girl's father, while the Shedite took over the girl's mother. The Lilim was supposed to be the girl's neighborhood friend, a "model" at the Lust-minion's studio. When things got bad, the girl was supposed to run away, get "helped" by the Lilim, get into the pornographic side of the Lust-studio, and eventually meet her fate as a drug-addicted whore killed in a back alley by a serial killer. The Habbalite rationalized this as a "test" -- if the girl were worthy, she'd stick it out with her family. Yeah, right. The girl was steered to the Lust-place, and out of the Lilim's hands. But the Lilim had so hated both the Habbalite (who abused her somewhat) and detested the restriction of the girl's freedoms (*she* saw the web that the poor kid could hardly be expected to fight against!). She ran away to angel-dominated (in our campaign) Boston, and got spotted by an Elohite of Creation in service to Jean... and a Seraph of Creation in service to Yves. That pair managed to befriend her. Seriously befriend her. We're talking fast-track-to-wings time. And eventually she happened to have a conversation with the Seraph... The Fate-Habbalite was a Fallen (of Jordi) who'd nearly dragged the Elohite of Creation with her. And the Lilim finally broke down and betrayed the unwritten code of "stay loyal to your employers as long as you can." She told the angels about what she'd been geased to do, and where the Lust-studio was, and everything she knew about the Fate-Habbalite. So the Seraph of Creation _in service to Yves_ tapped into the Creation grape-vine and got the girl rescued, and the Habbalite chased out of town by annoyed Ofanim. Which means that the girl's not dead, her destiny is still possible -- and maybe even *more* possible now! -- and the Habbalite got a nasty surprise. Was it just coincidence? Or had the girl not accepted her fate for herself, and the Symphony was reacting to celestial meddling? In our campaign, Servitors of Yves and Kronos are very careful not to *push*. The Symphony pushes back. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:02:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> NITPICKING (Re: Relic Limitations / Fate-Destiny Questions) At 8:32 AM -0500 4/4/99, Shadowstar wrote: >>Kronos' Belseraphs use their claims to Angelic resonances enough to lie > > (BTW, It's Balseraphim for the plural, and Balseraph for the singular. >I'll take that Nitpicking Essence now. . .) Actually, you'll take the dissonance, because the Princess of Nitpicking is listening. It's Balseraphs as the plural, and Balseraph as the singular. (But true, it's not bElseraphs.) - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:34:21 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> NITPICKING >Actually, you'll take the dissonance, because the Princess of Nitpicking >is listening. It's Balseraphs as the plural, and Balseraph as the >singular. Well I'll be snookered. . . http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/stylesheet.html Serves me right for confusing the Seraphim with Balseraphs. Hey, what can I say. . . I'm a Malakite. . . Can't be -right- all the time, now can I? >(But true, it's not bElseraphs.) Yeah. Could be worse though. Bleahseraph anyone? *evil grin* Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:05:38 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Plot Seed: Easter Mayhem. Set up: - ------ Three days ago, on Good Friday, a soldier is killed by the "Forces of Darkness ." Since the soldier died a meaningless death before fufilling his destiny, a Kyriotate of the Sword stepped into the soldier's shoes. The Problems: - ------------ Something went horribly wrong during the possession of the dead host (some suspect that the Lightbringer's attentions might even have been involved, or perhaps the unwitting soldier carried a crystal cum Force-Catcher. . .), and the Kyriotate wasn't able to complete his task immediately. It gets worse, because a Servitor of the Media caught the whole death scene on tape. They also know that the Kyriotate will manage to 'rise up' on Easter morning, so another camera crew has set up awaiting for the moment. Nybbas will definitely be pleased with the results. Just to add more mayhem, a Calabite of either the War or Dark Humor is involved. . . See, he managed to kill off the human in the first place. Now, because Baal was seriously PO'd or that Kobal thought it would be _funny_, he's bound to a cute little grey and white bunny rabbit. . . *whistles innocently* Can Easter be saved? Or will our heros wind up in some evil _Dimension of Pain!!!_ because of it! Tune in next week, same Sluggy channel, same Sluggy time. . . Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:03:56 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Why on earth can't Malakim fall? Elizabeth McCoy >At 5:05 PM +0200 4/2/99, Yossi Gurvitz wrote: >>At 11:58 02/04/99 , you wrote: >> >>>And this is why every so often instead of giving that vessel to a Malakite >>>it is instead given to, say, a Mercurian of Novalis... >> ...which still identifies the Mercurian as an angel. Bad idea. > >. o O (So give it to a Seraph of Novalis. Sure, it's an angel, > but what are they going to *do* about it?) That's *easy*. You call the Game. Three or four Servitors of the Game show up, and nail the angel with their chains of Dissonance Binding. (AFAICT, it doesn't require that the target actually have dissonance to work.) Now, the angel is immobilized and can't flee by going celestial. Now, take the angel and put one of those convenient little artifiacts that prevent the spending of essence around one of its limbs, and bury the angel in a block of concrete, covering the artifact. Now, when the dissonance binding wears off, it will still be immobilized and helpless. Now all that remains to be done is to put duct tape over the eyes and mouth, and wax in the angel's ears, and you have the perfect accessory for any demonic meeting place -- a big hunk of concrete that prevents the people meeting there from being violent. (This actually happened to one of the PCs in my game. Trauma was deemed to remove him from the picture too briefly for certain schemes to come to fruition, so more complicated means were called for.) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:46:47 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Teeny-Booper In Nomine On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Andrew Bonham wrote: > What Superiors (divine an infernal) would be interested in High School/HS > Students? > > Immediately, Christopher, Yves and Kronos come to mind.... but who else, > and why? All of them. Here's the reasoning: Blandine: Teenagers dream of the future. If we can influence their dreams, we can guide them towards Heaven. David: Teenagers are in a disoriented, chaotic time of their lives. We can shape them, mold them, make them strong and unified. Dominic: These children must be taught the difference between good and evil, right and wrong. They must gain the judgement they need to make correct choices and shun evil. Eli: Teenagers, poised between youth and adulthood, are a seething cauldron of potential creative energy. Teach them to harness that potential, direct it, make something good out of it. Gabriel: Casual cruelty exists within high schools. Stop it. Punish the cruel. Janus: Education is a wonderful thing, but the kind of indoctrination that exists in those schools is not. Get them to challenge what they think they know. Encourage them to challenge the status quo, to make decisions for themselves. It shouldn't be hard. Teenagers are natural rebels anyway. Jean: These children are the scientists and inventors of the future. Guide and inspire them, without giving them too much. Jordi: More humans to despoil God's creation. Bah. Watch them. Teach them respect for all life. Perhaps something worthwhile may be made of this generation. Perhaps. Laurence: These youths are in a difficult time of their lives. Teach them honor, discipline, duty. Help them lose themselves in service to others. The War is won through through them. Marc: These young men and women will enter the business world soon, if they have not does so already. Teach them honesty, and fair-dealings with their fellows. Those skills will serve them throughout their entire lives. Michael: Mortal life is a struggle, and young humans understand that. Teach them to stand up for themselves, to overcome adversity, and to never give up. Make them strong, and filled with grace in the eyes of the Lord. Novalis: Now, while they are still young, is the best time to teach them. They will still listen, if you are patient. Teach them to love, not hate. Teach them to seek peaceful solutions, not violence. Yves: These youths are at a critical moment in their lives. The decisions they make now may shape the course of their entire lives. Guide them to their destinies. Andrealphus: Seething hormones and an increasing curiousity about the opposite sex. Lead them gently down the path, guide them with teasing and subtle seductions, and bind them down to Hell in chains of their own lust. Asmodeus: The Game is played out in high schools as well. Find those that may best serve me, and encourage them to play along. Baal: The War is fought for human hearts and souls. If I can acquire them young I will gain many years of service from them, and the Enemy will have that many fewer resources. Beleth: The young humans fear so many things. The future, rejection, isolation, and the list continues. Mold those fears, make them grow strong, lead them down into despair. They they will be mine. Belial: More fuel for the fire. Encourage their rage, aggrivate their petty hatreds. When their anger explodes, they serve me best. Haagenti: The children of Adam possess hungers. Exploit those hungers, fatten them, and bring them to me. Kobal: I love high schol. I could watch it for hours. They're so serious about their little cliques and relationships and problems, not even realizing what a pathetic mimicry of reality most of it really is. Encourage it. Kronos: These human youths are beginning to make serious life choices. Help them with those choices, and ensure that they ultimately lead to me. Malphas: Cliques. Vendettas. Feuds. All of it strengthens me, but not enough. Encourage dissension within the schools. Break up friendships and relationships. Increase friction between students and teachers, teachers and principals, and between schools. Isolate them, and make them easy prey. Nybbas: Hey, these kids already serve me. Do you know how many hours they spend watching television, and how much my programming shapes their thoughts? I own them, and I'm going to keep them. Saminga: Many of these children consider death and the undead to be "cool", and believe that suicide is "romantic". Others believe that murder is a way to gain attention. Encourage this. They will be mine, sooner or later, but I want them sooner. Valefor: These kids already think that the world ows them. Just show them how easy it is to get it. Start small, and work them up. Vapula: There's hundreds of potential scientists and inventors in those schools. I want them. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1189 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.