From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Apr 11 13:48:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02334 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:48:56 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA24312 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:47:49 -0500 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:47:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199904111847.NAA24312@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1197 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, April 11 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1197 In this digest: Re: IN> ShoreCon '99 Re: IN> The Four Types of Role Player and In Nomine IN> Publishing Company for Sale! IN> Shorecon '99 IN> Four kinds of IN players Re: IN> Four kinds of IN players IN> In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas Re: IN> Four kinds of IN players Re: IN> In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas Re: IN> Worded Humans/Saints IN> Patron Saints and Lilith IN> Soul Killing IN> Saints Re: IN> Soul Killing Re: IN> Patron Saints and Lilith Re: IN> Soul Killing IN> Four Kinds of Roleplayers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:48:40 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> ShoreCon '99 speaking of Cons I will be running something at DragonCon in Atlanta July 1-4 maybe even a LARP if people from the list want to sign up I would be very happy. In a related topic are there any plans for LARP rules and if there aren't would it be alright by SJG if I used some homebrewed rules for the system Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:44:07 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> The Four Types of Role Player and In Nomine it might be best to shy away from this topic as a while back there were some issues about a "munchkin Players guide". Ben Elohite of Flowers serving Stone ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 99 12:31:22 EST From: PublishersCo@mailcity.com Subject: IN> Publishing Company for Sale! See information about Free Credit Application Below! My Multi-Million Dollar Publishing Company ONLY $149 Free Pre-Approved Merchant Account Application with Order!! To Start Your Business Out Right!! If you ever wanted "the easy way out" to make a lot of money with a business of your own.... Here is the EASIEST WAY TO START! I'm writing this letter to let you in on something that'll blow you away. 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Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:31:16 PDT From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Four kinds of IN players *sniff* I like to think I'm a Real Roleplayer, and my longest-running and favorite PC is a Malakite of Michael ... :) :) (There's a complete "Four Kinds of RPG Players" list somewhere online but I lost the address. It is HILARIOUS. The people who compiled it warn you not to try to drink anything while reading it.) I think I'll consult with my husband and fellow player before I try to add to Bradley Paranial's beginning. Janet Anderson _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:36:56 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Four kinds of IN players Favorite Attunement (angelic): Real Man: Smite!!! (or Heavenly Judgment) Real Roleplayer: Dream Walking (these humans have such beautiful dreams) Loonie: Kyriotate of Lightning (as implied earlier) Munchkin: Seraph of War, Ofanite of War, Proficiency (in all weapons, including unarmed), Malakite of the Sword, and the Blade Blessing of Laurence, all at once. Favorite Attunement (infernal): Real Men: Calabite of Fire, or Art of Combat (Baal) Real Roleplayer: Humanity Loonie: Anything from Kobal (or Haagenti) Munchkin: Calabite of War plus Calabite of Fire. Plus anything of Saminga's (Munchkins can't figure out why Saminga is perceived as stupid.) In Combat: Real Men: I charge the Holy/Unholy bastard and send his ass back to Heaven/Hell!!! Real Roleplayers: ::teary eyes:: Can't we all just get along??? (infernal ones are already plotting betrayal) Loonies: I spray water on the floor, then use my Transubstantiation attunement to turn it into Crisco! Munchkin: I attack him with my Hackmaster +12, uh I mean my level 6 Holy/Unholy Sword! Say can I get an upgrade? I won't be comfortable with anything less than a Level 10 sword. Munchkin (in combat with an obviously superior foe): I run and hide!!! (even if serving Michael or Baal, munchkins are basically cowards. They want to "win the game" and the equate winning with "surviving long enough to get experience") Brian A Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:52:39 -0600 From: "Andrew Bonham" Subject: IN> In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas In about 2 months, I'm taking a trip to France (hmm... Notre Dame.... time to trip the divine light fantastic)... and it got me thinking about purchasing our patron game: INS/MV... Does anyone know where I could order it online, or any stores in, say, Paris I could contact? Thanx. BTW, does anyone else wonder what else is hidden down in the "Lower Hells".... I keep thinking about the Antichrist and wondering... :-) Andrew Balseraph of Haagenti (no kidding! I'm kinda thin, and my *friends* call me this!... sigh... I think it comes from GMing and serving snacks)... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:39:15 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: Re: IN> Four kinds of IN players Favorite Band: Real Men: Calabim, Djinn Real Roleplayers: Balseraphs, Habbalah, Lilim, Shedim, Imputites Loonies: Balseraphs, Shedim Munchkins: Anything as long as they get to be a Demon Prince Suprior: Real Men: Baal, Belial, Saminga Real Rolplayers: Kronos, Malphas, Vapula, Beleth, Asmodeus, Andreaphalus, Nybbas Loonies: Kobal, Haagenti Muchkins: They ARE Demon Princes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:45:45 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas >In about 2 months, I'm taking a trip to France (hmm... Notre Dame.... time >to trip the divine light fantastic)... >and it got me thinking about purchasing our patron game: INS/MV... >Does anyone know where I could order it online, or any stores in, say, Paris >I could contact? You can contact dragons@atlantel.fr Which is the email of a French RPG shop who's prepared to accept orders (via Visa) over email. They'll ship to England, though I don't know about the USA. I've bought most of the INS/MV line from them, and a fair number of Intervention Divine cards. ;) - --- Maya, Elohite of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:55:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Re: IN> Worded Humans/Saints On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, in_nomine-digest wrote: > From: Walter Milliken > > The (non-canon) theory I have for why this is true is that the difference > between humans and celestials is a lot like the difference between humans and > machines. Humans are generalists -- every individual human is a tangle > of Symphonic themes, some stonger than others, but all present. > > Words, being a connection to a pure concept in the Symphony, don't fit > well with humans in this model. Humans are too chaotic and "fuzzy" for > a pure linkage to "stick". I had a similar theory which explained why Lilith could have Freedom but humans can't be given Words. Inherent in human nature is the ability to choose. It's their role in the Symphony. The choices humanity makes can determine whether a word prospers or dwindles. Humanity is the main (though not only) creator of tethers. Humans have no dissonance conditions but can choose to behave anyway they like. Humans are free to make choices in their life towards Destiny, Fate, or neither. Freedom to choose is inherent to humanity's being. Humans can not be given Words because being bound to a Word would be a condition that limits Freedom on a metaphysical level, and is thus noncombatible with man's basic nature. Such attempts are doomed to failure, as the human's inherent nature would cause the soul to reject the Word. How then could Lilith be given Freedom. That's simple. Freedom, as noted above, is inherent to humanity, part of its basic nature. One could say Freedom is the resonance of mankind. Thus when Lucifer "granted" Lilith the Word Freedom, all he did was augment, empower, and amplify what was already part of her basic nature to begin with. Freedom is a Word that could be granted to a human because it places no limits on a human soul's ability to choose, and is thus metaphysically compatible with being human. Of course, only God, Lucifer, Yves, and Kronos really understand this. All the Seraphim Council knows is that every time they tried to grant a word to a Saint (not that many) it just didn't stick. They just chalk it up to being God's will. If they ever caught on the way Lucifer did, then they could grant a Saint the Word of Free Will. But the odds of them ever clueing in to these facts are low because it requires a great understanding of human nature, which there is a large derth of among the Seraphim. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas > > This doesn't really explain Lilith, though it's possible the nature of her > Word is such that it's one of the few that *could* be given to a human and > stick -- to use another analogy, Words are normally "spectral lines" in the > Symphony, similar to the "pure tone" nature of celestials. Humans are > "continuous spectrum" sources in the Symphony, and so don't match well with > Words. But the Word of Freedom may, by its very nature, not be confinable > to a few spectral lines. So it could be linked to a human with a similar > "spectrum" -- Lilith. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:33:02 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Patron Saints and Lilith >>>I don't mean to beat dead horses either, but every time I see that, I squick. Lilith, in Canon to date, was a human created to be the wife of Adam, who left and was given a Word. Handwaving and "no one knows how Lucifer did it" doesn't change that, unless the intention is to Canonically make her Celestial before she was given the Word.<<< Lilith is the Big Exception. Yes, she's a mystery. Yes, she violates the rules. I don't know if how Lilith got her Word will remain CDaU, or if there will someday be an explanation. I have my own theories, Elizabeth and Walter have their own theories, and I've heard other people's theories. But just accept that canonically, humans can't have Words. And somehow, Lilith violates that rule. If this bothers you, remember that even the real world isn't always consistent and has mysteries that defy explanation. >>>But to simply state, categorically, that it is impossible is to state that the description of a Superior as listed in IN, Fall of the Malakim and the Infernal Player's Guide aren't Canon.<<< How? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:33:08 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Soul Killing >>>Not to be caning a deceased equine or anything, but this set of answers produces yet *another* problem with _Fall of the Malakim_. Therein, Malphas very casually force-strips poor Mira Klein (witnessed by Neck). The only way I read that set of events is that it *is* very easy for a Superior to soul kill a 9-force celestial.<<< If that celestial is your own Servitor, yes. Otherwise, you have to catch the celestial in celestial form. Even a Superior can't point at a random celestial in a vessel and expunge him from existence. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:32:57 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Saints >>>How is it different? The only thing I can find about it is that they don't have to spend any points for the first vessel. (Not arguing here, I'm just curious.)<<< The process of binding a human soul to a vessel is a little different from creating a vessel which a celestial can "occupy." Outwardly they're pretty similar in composition, but the methods used to do it are not the same. Mechanically, a Saint's corporeal body is treated as a vessel at a level equal to his Corporeal Forces. Saints _cannot_ buy up the level of their vessel (except by increasing their Corporeal Forces). Also note another change from Night Music -- Saints can't assume celestial form on Earth (except in a Tether). - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:51:00 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Soul Killing David Edelstein wrote: > If that celestial is your own Servitor, yes. Otherwise, you have to catch > the celestial in celestial form. Even a Superior can't point at a random > celestial in a vessel and expunge him from existence. What about ISTies? In other words, posit a demon of Factions in service to Dark Humor. Would Force-stripping be the power of Malphas, Kobal, or both? > -David - -EDG - -- EDG, Mercurian of Jean, Angel of Information Dissemination anthoch@earlham.edu "Saints have been tempted by the devil." "You're not a saint." "Exactly. That's why I fell." - Milly and Wormold, "Our Man In Havana" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:09:43 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> Patron Saints and Lilith remember Lilith can also create Lilim and in fact is the only one who can so I think it is safe to assume that she is powerful enough and non-standard enough to warrant exceptions. Ben, Elohite of Flowers serving stone ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:59:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Soul Killing On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>Not to be caning a deceased equine or anything, but this set of answers > produces yet *another* problem with _Fall of the Malakim_. Therein, > Malphas > very casually force-strips poor Mira Klein (witnessed by Neck). The only > way I read that set of events is that it *is* very easy for a Superior to > soul kill a 9-force celestial.<<< > > If that celestial is your own Servitor, yes. Otherwise, you have to catch > the celestial in celestial form. Even a Superior can't point at a random > celestial in a vessel and expunge him from existence. But Mira wasn't his Servitor anymore, right? And he didn't create her - Lilith did. Since Redeeming requires something like the disassembly and reassembly of the demon's Forces, she wouldn't necessarily have the same "configuration" afterwards either. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:46:23 PDT From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Four Kinds of Roleplayers (I still can't find the original list online. Does anyone else know where it is?) Janet Anderson FAVORITE CHOIR Real Men: Play Malakim Real Roleplayers: Play Kyriotates Loonies: Play Ofanim Munchkins: Play Archangels FAVORITE BAND Real Men: Play Calabim Real Roleplayers: Play Balseraphs or Lilim Loonies: Play Habbalah Munchkins: Play Lucifer FAVORITE SUPERIOR (ANGELS) Real Men: David, Lawrence, or Michael Real Roleplayers: Gabriel or Dominic Loonies: Eli, Novalis, or Jordi Munchkins: ARE Superiors FAVORITE SUPERIOR (DEMONS) Real Men: Baal, Belial Real Roleplayers: Asmodeus, Beleth, Malphas, or Lilith Loonies: Haagenti, Kobal Munchkins: ARE Superiors (alternative: Andrealphus or Saminga) FAVORITE SKILL Real Men: Fighting, Weapons Real Roleplayers: Knowledge, Languages, Singing Loonies: Driving Munchkins: Fast-Talk (usable on GM) FAVORITE SONG Real Men: Numinous Corpus/Claws & Feet Real Roleplayers: Celestial Shields, Corporeal Tongues Loonies: Numinous Corpus/Tongue Munchkins: Thunder FAVORITE RITES (ANGELS) Real Men: Rites that involve killing something Real Roleplayers: rites that involve doing something Loonies: Eli. Need I be specific? Munchkin: Whatever gives the most Essence _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1197 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.