From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Apr 26 20:49:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14703 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:49:03 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA30674 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:40:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:40:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199904270140.UAA30674@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1209 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, April 26 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1209 In this digest: Re: IN> FUDGE-IN Conversion Notes IN> In the Beginning (part 2) IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Ah, radiation... IN> Sun Tether (Re: Ah, radiation...) Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Ah, radiation... IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Mosquitos ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:33:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> FUDGE-IN Conversion Notes On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > For the interested, I've just finished up some fairly basic > conversion notes for playing IN with FUDGE. Rather than suck up > bandwidth on this list, however, I'm offering the notes through private > email rather than a public posting (if I had a website, I'd stick it > there, but hey, I don't). I'd love to read your conversion notes, and I have Word 97. Could you send them to me? Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:39:41 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> In the Beginning (part 2) >>>Was there ever a third part to this? I would very much like to read it.<<< I haven't finished it yet...hopefully I will eventually get around to it, and then I'll post it, but I've been busy lately. - -Davi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 01:30:29 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> Ah, radiation... Can Celestials get sunburned? If so, can this be remedied using Corporeal Healing? - -a very pink and sore EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:21:42 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Unless there's a canon ruling, I'd treat sunburn like any other burn, which means, I think, that celestial vessels aren't immune, but are tougher than mortal bodies, though I don't recall by what factor. (Servitors of Fire, either divine or infernal, are totally immune, of course.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:53:19 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... At 09:21 AM 4/26/99 -0500, you wrote: >Unless there's a canon ruling, I'd treat sunburn like any other >burn, which means, I think, that celestial vessels aren't immune, >but are tougher than mortal bodies, though I don't recall by >what factor. (Servitors of Fire, either divine or infernal, are >totally immune, of course.) > > since the sun is a tether to Gabriel would "Sun Worshipping" be the same as hanging out at an other tether for most purposes? I mean for like dissonance of servitors not for ascending and so forth. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:44:17 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Earl Wajenberg wrote: > what factor. (Servitors of Fire, either divine or infernal, are > totally immune, of course.) Are you sure? I was under the impression that at least Belial's servitors needed to buy an attunement to be immune to fire (Firewalker, isn't it?), as demonstrated by one of his Rites... > Earl - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:46:50 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... EDG wrote: > Are you sure? I was under the impression that at least Belial's > servitors needed to buy an attunement to be immune to fire > (Firewalker, isn't it?), as demonstrated by one of his Rites... No, I'm not sure. I'm also not sure if other celestials can't be given immunity to fire by some hook or crook. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:29:59 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, EDG wrote: > Can Celestials get sunburned? > > If so, can this be remedied using Corporeal Healing? > > -a very pink and sore EDG > I'd say yes. Besides it would the effect of Laurence imitating an Englishman if he could TAN. Bradley Paranial, Who unless given other proof shall always belive that Larry always speaks in a tenor English Accent. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:52:11 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... At 10:29 AM -0500 4/26/99, paranial@creighton.edu wrote: >On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, EDG wrote: > > > Can Celestials get sunburned? > > > > If so, can this be remedied using Corporeal Healing? > > > > -a very pink and sore EDG > > > > >I'd say yes. Besides it would the effect of Laurence imitating an >Englishman if he could TAN. > >Bradley Paranial, Who unless given other proof shall always belive that >Larry always speaks in a tenor English Accent. Why am I afraid a Gilbert and Sullivan parody will come of this.... Dark wing'd and swift is Laurence our slender Arch Ang-a-gel Who ever stands prepared for action that is quite Veng-a-ful. We sleep most soundly knowing Laurence stands hero-i-cal... Preeeeeeepared to battle demonic plots undefined and catagorical! - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:07:26 -0400 From: "James M. Zoshak" Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... >Unless there's a canon ruling, I'd treat sunburn like any other >burn, which means, I think, that celestial vessels aren't immune, >but are tougher than mortal bodies, though I don't recall by >what factor. (Servitors of Fire, either divine or infernal, are >totally immune, of course.) No -- sunburn isn't like a fire burn. It is ultraviolet radiation-caused damage at the genetic level. I agree with the part about celestials being tougher, but there isn't any reason for servitors of fire to be immune.... Azrael, Habbalite of Factions. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:11:04 -0400 From: "James M. Zoshak" Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... >Bradley Paranial, Who unless given other proof shall always belive that >Larry always speaks in a tenor English Accent. Larry is definitely a Monty Python straightman. "What do you MEAN you just bypassed my authority and had Michael do it?!" Azrael, Habbalite of Factions. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:24:07 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... At 2:30 -0400 4/26/99, EDG wrote: >Can Celestials get sunburned? I'd have to say yes -- it's just another type of corporeal damage, and they're not immune to such (except for certain special cases). >If so, can this be remedied using Corporeal Healing? I don't see any reason why not. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:27:47 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... At 8:53 -0400 4/26/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >since the sun is a tether to Gabriel would "Sun Worshipping" be the same as >hanging out at an other tether for most purposes? I mean for like >dissonance of servitors not for ascending and so forth. Sorry, nice try, but I think the answer has to be, "No." It's the Sun's "surface" that is the Tether. Fun place to play if you're in celestial form, or maybe if you're an Ofanite of Fire, but otherwise not terribly useful. (And before someone corrects me on "surface" -- it's really the photosphere I'm talking about.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:31:09 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... At 10:21 -0400 4/26/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Unless there's a canon ruling, I'd treat sunburn like any other >burn, which means, I think, that celestial vessels aren't immune, >but are tougher than mortal bodies, though I don't recall by >what factor. (Servitors of Fire, either divine or infernal, are >totally immune, of course.) The first part makes sense (in the GURPS IN draft, celestials start with HT 14), but only Ofanim of Fire would be immune -- they're immune to *any* energy. Most others can only get immunity to fire, if that. Belial's Servitors are not generally immune to fire, unless they have the appropriate attunement, even though they have a Rite that requires it. (Hey, it's Hell, after all....) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:16:16 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts At 14:01 -0400 4/23/99, Hilary Hayes wrote: > My question is, if the host does become aware of the possession by >a Shedite can the host and Shedite communicate? If so, to what extent? I would say no, at least in my campaign, though you could make it work either way. Allowing it permits some amusing roleplaying, but also opens up questions of bargains and other sorts of collaboration between the Shedite and its host, and I don't think I'd want that. Also, I'd say the general discussion of Shedim in the books implies the opposite -- they seem more the sort who live in the subconscious, driving the host in ways it doesn't really understand. In the GURPS IN draft version of the resonance, it's much more clear-cut -- the Shedite uses a variant of the Telecontrol power, which doesn't really permit communications. All that said, there's still a way for the Shedite to communicate with its host -- but not hold a real conversation. It can either talk to itself, or write notes. Since the host remembers all the actions while possessed, the Shedite can convey information that way. But it's probably not a good idea -- any host who found himself telling himself, "Hi, I'm the demon controlling your brain..." should get an immediate Will roll, I think, to try to kick the demon out. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:44:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Walter Milliken wrote: > Also, I'd say the general discussion of Shedim in the books implies > the opposite -- they seem more the sort who live in the > subconscious, driving the host in ways it doesn't really > understand. Wormwood might make a good model for a Shedite, in some respects. In "The Screwtape Letters," he is the junior tempter, Screwtape's nephew and the recipient of the letters. He seems to act very much in this manner. He never possesses the "patient" so as to operate his limbs, but he has some kind of "telepathic" insight into the content of the guy's mind and memory, and works by something similar to subliminal suggestion. That is, Wormwood presents images and ideas to the patient, but in such a way that he'll take them for his own thoughts. (Of course, Wormwood was strictly forbidden, as a matter of general infernal policy for that time and place, to do anything that would make the patient suspect his existence. Screwtape advised him, that, if the patient ever started to suspect, "suggest to him a picture of something in red tights and argue (it is a standard textbook way of fuddling them) that since he cannot believe in that, he cannot believe in you." (Quotation approximate.) ) Wormwood did not have perfect insight into the patient's mind, by any means. He often guessed wrong about how the guy would react (the basis for many letters) and was completely shut out during moments of grace (when, perhaps, the patient rolled 111 in IN terms). Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:13:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... At 9:21 AM -0500 4/26/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Unless there's a canon ruling, I'd treat sunburn like any other >burn, which means, I think, that celestial vessels aren't immune, >but are tougher than mortal bodies, though I don't recall by >what factor. Unless someone points out something obscure I've forgotten (which is even more possible than usual, since I'm _very_ tired), I'd say this is spot-on. They're a little tougher, a little more resistant, so they don't sunburn to death as fast. They still peel. And Corporeal Healing works. And if one had an albino vessel, it would burn faster. But they're _highly_ unlikely to get cancer. A few UV rays won't damage the cellular reproduction on a vessel that can shrug off as much as vessels do. > (Servitors of Fire, either divine or infernal, are >totally immune, of course.) This, however, isn't spot on -- you need to have the Ofanite of Fire attunement for that one (which protects against _energy_ imbalances, heat or cold). (I'd be kind of dubious about letting Belial's Firewalker work, too, since it's only immunity to _flames_. You could fall into the Sun, but there's so much air and space between you and it that it's more akin to you getting burned by touching a hot electric burner, or the side of a furnace that has fire on the other side. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:13:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Sun Tether (Re: Ah, radiation...) At 8:53 AM -0400 4/26/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >since the sun is a tether to Gabriel would "Sun Worshipping" be the same as >hanging out at an other tether for most purposes? I mean for like >dissonance of servitors not for ascending and so forth. Not unless you're Right There, helping those sunspots get wiped up. O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:36:13 -0400 From: Judson Powers Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Sunburn isn't like a fire burn, per se, but it also isn't at the genetic level -- it's UV destruction at the cellular level. Damage at the genetic level is skin cancer... I would agree, though, that celestials would pretty much shake it off; however, I think that servitors of fire would get burned but could completely ignore any effects unless there were very extreme circumstances. After all, they probably like it... James M. Zoshak wrote: > No -- sunburn isn't like a fire burn. It is ultraviolet radiation-caused > damage at the genetic level. I agree with the part about celestials being > tougher, but there isn't any reason for servitors of fire to be immune.... > > Azrael, Habbalite of Factions. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:44:42 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, James M. Zoshak wrote: > >Unless there's a canon ruling, I'd treat sunburn like any other > >burn, which means, I think, that celestial vessels aren't immune, > >but are tougher than mortal bodies, though I don't recall by > >what factor. (Servitors of Fire, either divine or infernal, are > >totally immune, of course.) > > No -- sunburn isn't like a fire burn. It is ultraviolet radiation-caused > damage at the genetic level. I agree with the part about celestials being > tougher, but there isn't any reason for servitors of fire to be immune.... Symbolism, perhaps. I've always assumed that, in In Nomine, the symbolic meaning of something is as important as the literal and scientific meaning. Symbolically, the Sun is fire. Servitors of Fire (either side) with the appropriate Attunements/Distinctions are immune to fire in it's symbolic menaing as well. Of course, I could be wrong. But that's how I'd run it in my game. Assuming that it ever became important, that is... Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:11:55 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Walter wrote: > The first part makes sense (in the GURPS IN draft, celestials start with HT 14), > but only Ofanim of Fire would be immune -- they're immune to *any* energy. *Leath rubs hands together* This is the perfect time to pick up Nitpicking Essence. Ofanim of Fire aren't immune to *Kinetic* energy (bullets, swords, guided vehicles). Ah, feel the Essence rush :) Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:20:14 -0400 From: Hilary Hayes Subject: IN> Mosquitos Off at a tangent to the radiation thread, what about mosquitos? This came up last night when my vessel was sitting on a balcony (at night) in Athens reading Plato. I was wondering whether I =should= be worried about mosquitos. I guess, if they =do= bite, then the vessel would suffer itching etc. (and possibly malaria, though probably not in Athens). But would a mosquito be =interested= in biting a celestial's vessel? Given that they're mostly driven by the smell of blood etc. If they =are= interested, I guess there's one very itchy Elohite in Athens (and one very itchy Impudite on the next balcony). H ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:20:16 -0400 From: Hilary Hayes Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >I would say no, at least in my campaign, though you could make it work either way. Allowing it permits some amusing roleplaying, but also opens up questions of bargains and other sorts of collaboration between the Shedite and its host, and I don't think I'd want that.< I'm actually running a Shedite played by the person who wrote that question (Ashley, my partner, with whom I share an e-mail account, amongst other things). All three Shedim in that game have a certain, limited, amount of communication with their hosts and, to some extent, that communication is two-way. Shedim =have= to corrupt their hosts. They have access to their hosts memories. They have to force their hosts to do things that go against their moral natures. In order to do that they have to know a bit about what the host is and is not prepared to do (of his or her own volition) at any given point in time. That, to me, implies a =sort= of communication. Similarly, the host gets all sorts of rolls to resist actions and to become aware of the possession. This, to me, implies that the communication is two-way. OK it's not like having a conversation going on between Shedite and host (that wouldn't really 'fit'). Though, in some ways, when the Shedite is trying to access some particular memory within the host the interaction between me and the player tends to take on some conversational aspects..... Maybe it's just the way I run things. The real point is, what happens when the host becomes aware that she's being possessed? The bonus to her Will roll is pretty trivial (given the levels of Will most Shedim start out with and the measures they take to increase their effective check digits). It's more a matter of how she =reacts= to that awareness.... H. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:38:54 -0400 From: Matthew Rice Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos Hilary Hayes wrote: > > Off at a tangent to the radiation thread, what about mosquitos? This came > up last night when my vessel was sitting on a balcony (at night) in Athens > reading Plato. I was wondering whether I =should= be worried about > mosquitos. I guess, if they =do= bite, then the vessel would suffer > itching etc. (and possibly malaria, though probably not in Athens). But > would a mosquito be =interested= in biting a celestial's vessel? Given > that they're mostly driven by the smell of blood etc. > > If they =are= interested, I guess there's one very itchy Elohite in Athens > (and one very itchy Impudite on the next balcony). > > H I'd say that mosquitos would be attracted to a vessel, since vessels do have blood and squishy bits inside. - -- Matthew Rice "The Master said, Just as to sacrifice to ancestors other than one's own is presumption, so to see what is right and not do it is cowardice." - -- Confucius, The Analects, II:24 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1209 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.