From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Apr 28 09:33:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03006 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:33:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA06874 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:22:52 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:22:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199904281422.JAA06874@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1210 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, April 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1210 In this digest: IN> MISC: ShoreCon '99 Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Ah, radiation... IN> Gate (was Re IN: Attunements (Sorcery)) Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Gate (was Re IN: Attunements (Sorcery)) Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Song of Healing Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Re: IN> Mosquitos IN> Online art recommendation IN> Heaven-Sworn Habbalah? Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Heaven-Sworn Habbalah? Re: IN> Heaven-Sworn Habbalah? Re: IN> Shedim and hosts IN> Stats for two Word-Bounds Re: IN> Stats for two Word-Bounds Re: IN> Stats for two Word-Bounds Re: IN> Shedim and hosts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:43:59 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: IN> MISC: ShoreCon '99 Greetings. I'm the RPG coordinator for ShoreCon '99, which will be held on September 9-12 1999 at the Hilton in Cherry Hill, NJ. In that capacity, I'm looking for GMs (and players, too) for RPG events at the convention. The deadline for event submissions is June 1st, and by visiting our website at you can find complete information on hotel accomodations, online GM registration (now guaranteed to work!), and even get on the mailing list to have our pre-registration book sent directly to you. If you are interested in GMing an event, the time to sign up is now! This year ShoreCon will will be having several special guests, including Peter Adkison (President and CEO of WotC/TSR), Steve Jackson (President of Steve Jackson Games) and Jolly Blackburn (creator of Knights of the Dinner Table)! We'll also be boasting Target Games' 1st Annual Games Expo, several LARPs (Vampire, Star Wars, and Toon!), as well as a large selection of RPGs, CCGs, Miniature events and Network Gaming! Thanx for your time... - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:34:05 +0300 From: "Tick Tock" Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... - -----Original Message----- >No -- sunburn isn't like a fire burn. It is ultraviolet radiation-caused >damage at the genetic level. I agree with the part about celestials being >tougher, but there isn't any reason for servitors of fire to be immune.... > I believe it's at the cellular level vice the genetic. Tick Tock ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:15:22 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Hilary Hayes wrote: > I'm actually running a Shedite played by the person who wrote that question > (Ashley, my partner, with whom I share an e-mail account, amongst other > things). All three Shedim in that game have a certain, limited, amount of > communication with their hosts and, to some extent, that communication is > two-way. Shedim =have= to corrupt their hosts. They have access to their > hosts memories. They have to force their hosts to do things that go > against their moral natures. In order to do that they have to know a bit > about what the host is and is not prepared to do (of his or her own > volition) at any given point in time. That, to me, implies a =sort= of > communication. Similarly, the host gets all sorts of rolls to resist > actions and to become aware of the possession. This, to me, implies that > the communication is two-way. I'm more of a mind that the Shedite can skim through its host's memories much like a person running a microfiche projector at the library. You run it back and forth until you find what you like, then you read it more deeply. I'd doubt the host would know this process was going on at all. I also tend not to take the fact that the host can reassert control (rarely) and kick the Shedite out as indicative of the host knowing or suspecting the Shedite is in there. I see it more akin to a moment of 'What am I -doing-?' and an unconscious attempt to reestablish the former pattern of behavior. According to the books, Shedim run around on Earth in -fairly- significant numbers, especially the older and more experienced ones whose Princes know can just be cut loose to further their Word on their own. I'd say -far- too many might suspect their existance if there was a sort of communication going on. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:28:53 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos Hilary Hayes wrote: > But would a mosquito be =interested= in biting a celestial's > vessel? Given that they're mostly driven by the smell of blood > etc. Actually, mosquitoes are attracted to carbon dioxide. That is, they track you by your exhalations. And vessels do breathe. *Why* they breathe is not clear, since they don't need to eat, and therefore may not need to breathe in order to get oxygen to use in oxidizing food, which is where the carbon dioxide comes from. So it's a GM call, whether or not mosquitoes are attracted to vessels. If vessels exhale additional carbon dioxide, then the mosquitoes should home in. Given that a vessel gets bitten, it's another question whether they'll suffer swelling and itching. This is an allergic reaction to mosquito saliva, and might not be something the vessel has to do. So even if vessels attract mosquitoes, they might not generally notice the bites. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:46:06 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... In message , paranial@creighton.edu writes >On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, EDG wrote: > >> Can Celestials get sunburned? >> > >I'd say yes. Besides it would the effect of Laurence imitating an >Englishman if he could TAN. > >Bradley Paranial, Who unless given other proof shall always belive that >Larry always speaks in a tenor English Accent. > Oh, we _can_ tan. Just artificially of course. Because it always rains here. :( - -- Julian -- Captain of Lust in service to Technology, The Demon of Sunbeds ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:38:16 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: IN> Gate (was Re IN: Attunements (Sorcery)) Way back on Thu 28 Jan, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: ^^^ ^^ ^^^ >Shadowstar wrote: > >> Put simply, can a Celestial use the Sorcery Attunement (_The Marches_ p. >> 57) granted by Hatiphas (Balseraph Baroness of Fate, Demon of Sorcery)? > > The Marches doesn't specifically say NO, it's true... > ... but I'd be REALLY in favour of making this a Human-only Attunement. It >gives humans a special niche in the game that gives them more flavour. Demons >don't need Sorcery - they have their own schticks. > And I can't see (say) >Asmodeus being too pleased that Kronos' servitors can use Summon & Command to >collect & overpower any demon they like. > > Bad idea. Very bad idea. > What if a summon schtick existed for celestials -- probably as an Attunement -- that only let you call forth your immediate subordinates and *not* celestials who belong to other Superiors? A possible exception being if you were somehow able to acquire such a celestial's Heart... Attunement Gate With a successful Will roll and a variable cost in Essence (see below), the holder of this attunement is entitled to summon before him; 1) Any celestial officially recognised (Noted in the Library, or the Archives) as being in service to him. 2) Any celestial whose Heart he possesses. The Essence cost is dependent upon two factors, the power of the Gated celestial and planar distance traversed in it's arrival. The cost is 1 Essence per three Forces of the target (fractions round up) with a multiplier of 2 for travel between The Marches and Earth and/or The Marches and the Celestial Realms, and 3 for travel between Earth and the Celestial Realms. (Summoning a 9-Force demon from Hell whilst the summoner is on earth would therefore cost 9 essence.) A celestial summoned to Earth from Heaven/Hell/The Marches, need _not_ have a Vessel! The target will know that he is being Gated, but not necessarily by _whom_ (a successful Per roll *may* impart degrees of this information). He will have a limited amount of time (a maximum number of _rounds_ equal to the number of his Celestial Forces) before he must either comply and appear at his summoner's location, or resist. If he chooses to obey the summons then his arrival at the destination will be almost instantaneous (1 round). If the target of the summons attempts to resist the call, he should make a Will roll of his own. Treat this as a contest between summoner and target. Failing to respond to a Gate summons is probably a serious act, (treasonous in Hell) so have your excuses ready. Note that this attunement would not usually be granted to any servitor below the rank of Master or Baron. The fact that it allows instantaneous movement of a Superior's resources means that only servitors of the above status are generally considered important and/or trustworthy enough to have it. A lesser celestial that _is_ in possession of it will have either have proven himself an invaluable asset, and may soon be set to rise in the ranks (or get himself snuffed out by jealous rivals). He may also merely have been temporarily granted it in order to fulfil some task. High ranking Servitors of Laurence or Baal may well have variations of this attunement that enable them to Gate in entire companies/legions at reduced rates. Or perhaps something about the nature of Armageddon itself will reduce the cost between dimensions (Hell on Earth?). Please note that this hasn't been playtested. I am still unsure of whether or not to make the transport between locales on earth more expensive (due to the laws of reality there being harder to tweak) but essentially, I was looking at allowing a possessor of this attunement to be able to Gate in perhaps two or three 7-9 force underlings and still have some Essence to play around with. It makes confronting Barons/Masters considerably more... unpredictable. :) Anyways, I've been thinking of something along these lines for some time but have been too busy to implement it. Comments and criticisms are very much requested. Note: I am aware that this is a very cheap teleport option. Unless your campaign has PCs who are at the level of Baron/Master anyway then it should not prove too much a problem. I also appreciate that this may place a little more importance on Hearts then some people may care for. If anybody has a problem with this then they could disregard that part of the mechanics. Me, I happen to like this notion because it means that Superiors (Valefor in particular) have vested interests in getting into other Superiors' Heart Rooms... - -- Julian 'There was no way in Hell, he decided, that the Lord of Lust would wear polyester. Not to a first meeting, anyway.' -- 'Sympathy for the Devil' by Holly Lisle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:56:26 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos In a message dated 4/27/99 6:32:09 AM, earlw@mc.com writes: >Hilary Hayes wrote: > >> But would a mosquito be =interested= in biting a celestial's >> vessel? Given that they're mostly driven by the smell of blood >> , etc., > >Actually, mosquitoes are attracted to carbon dioxide. That is, >they track you by your exhalations. And vessels do breathe. >*Why* they breathe is not clear, since they don't need to eat, >and therefore may not need to breathe in order to get oxygen >to use in oxidizing food, which is where the carbon dioxide >comes from. So it's a GM call, whether or not mosquitoes are >attracted to vessels. If vessels exhale additional carbon dioxide, >then the mosquitoes should home in. > Why do celestials breathe? Because breath and spirit are synonymous. (At least in Greek, Hebrew *and* Latin...) Do they have an O2/CO2 respiration exchange? I'd say no, unless it was in reverse. (Take in CO2 and N2, create carbon-based structures, exhale excess O2.) Now there's a thought. The real reason Lilim are green: PHOTOSYNTHESIS! Mark (Getting odder by the minute, so I'll stop now...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:34:46 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos At 19:20 -0400 4/26/99, Hilary Hayes wrote: > But >would a mosquito be =interested= in biting a celestial's vessel? Given >that they're mostly driven by the smell of blood etc. As someone else pointed out, it's CO2 that attracts them. I would assume that since celestials breathe, they exhale CO2 (since not doing so is pretty detectable by simple medical tests). This is by analogy with the fact that, though they don't need to eat, their vessels do process food normally when they do. In general, I assume that celestial vessels look and act like the real thing, except that some processes (especially those connected with energy) are optional. Vessels are probably pretty anomalous at the biochemical level, but the macroscopic processes and structures are "normal", though sometimes optional. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:38:40 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts At 19:20 -0400 4/26/99, Hilary Hayes wrote: >The real point is, what happens when the host becomes aware that she's >being possessed? The bonus to her Will roll is pretty trivial (given the >levels of Will most Shedim start out with and the measures they take to >increase their effective check digits). It's more a matter of how she >=reacts= to that awareness.... My take on this is that the host realizes that they really would *never* have considered doing on their own, and that they must be under some sort of external influence. Depending on the time and place, they might suspect anything from demonic possession or witchcraft, through drugs, to alien invaders with Orbital Mind Control Lasers. But I don't think they suddenly discover the Shedite hiding in a corner of their mind. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:43:03 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... At 5:11 -0400 4/27/99, Leath Sheales wrote: >Walter wrote: > >> The first part makes sense (in the GURPS IN draft, celestials start with HT 14), >> but only Ofanim of Fire would be immune -- they're immune to *any* energy. > >*Leath rubs hands together* This is the perfect time to pick up >Nitpicking Essence. Ofanim of Fire aren't immune to *Kinetic* energy >(bullets, swords, guided vehicles). > >Ah, feel the Essence rush :) Sorry, but GURPS defines Invulnerability (the advantage in question, in context) specifically such that "energy" refers only to effects composed *only* of energy, and kinetic weapons are a different sort. So if you want to nitpick that, complain to Dr. Kromm.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 1999 12:16:18 -0500 From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) Subject: Re: IN> Gate (was Re IN: Attunements (Sorcery)) >>>>> "JB" == Julian Breen writes: ["Gate" Attunement] JB> A celestial summoned to Earth from Heaven/Hell/The Marches, need JB> _not_ have a Vessel! Although if they're a Servitor of Dreams or Nightmare, they're screwed. That's a really nasty trick you could pull on someone if you had their Heart... Corruptors and Dominations might have a hard time, too. JB> Please note that this hasn't been playtested. I am still unsure of JB> whether or not to make the transport between locales on earth more JB> expensive (due to the laws of reality there being harder to tweak) but JB> essentially, I was looking at allowing a possessor of this attunement to JB> be able to Gate in perhaps two or three 7-9 force underlings and still JB> have some Essence to play around with. It makes confronting JB> Barons/Masters considerably more... unpredictable. :) It would be a really useful attunement of Seneschals, too. I'm not sure whether the Essence cost for summoning servitors already in the Corporal realm is too cheap, either. I don't really have any suggestions for fixing it. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:54:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos At 7:20 PM -0400 4/26/99, Hilary Hayes wrote: >Off at a tangent to the radiation thread, what about mosquitos? [...] But >would a mosquito be =interested= in biting a celestial's vessel? Given >that they're mostly driven by the smell of blood etc. They home in on warmth and CO2, IIRC? If so, hey, celestials have body heat and they breathe. They have blood, too. And would presumably be affected by any other injected "poison"... >If they =are= interested, I guess there's one very itchy Elohite in Athens >(and one very itchy Impudite on the next balcony). Yup! Munch time. Scratchscratchscratch. (Though it does depend on if the allergic reaction is part of vessels. Which might depend on which Superior gave the vessel, and how much they like "realism" in the vessels they create.) Of course, since the bugs in Heaven kindly don't bite (one assumes?), and the only bugs in Hell are in Saminga's territory... Celestials would certainly not think of that little incovenience. O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:49:07 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Song of Healing Frank Lazar wrote: > > At 10:47 PM -0500 4/22/99, EDG wrote: > >Okay, quick question, because the rules (that I have; this doesn't > >include Canticorum) are vague: can the Corporeal Song of Healing regrow > >lost limbs and the like? > > > >-EDG > >-- > > Yes, but only if the Song is applied before the lost Body points due to > the injury are healed in other ways. Once the patient has been healed, > (such as the ordinary medical way) nothing can be done with this Song. What he said. =) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:52:33 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Ah, radiation... Walter Milliken wrote: > > At 2:30 -0400 4/26/99, EDG wrote: > >Can Celestials get sunburned? > > I'd have to say yes -- it's just another type of corporeal damage, and they're > not immune to such (except for certain special cases). > > >If so, can this be remedied using Corporeal Healing? > > I don't see any reason why not. Yes (though Celestials are generally tougher and it might take a lot longer) and yes. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:32:20 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos At 3:54 PM -0400 4/27/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 7:20 PM -0400 4/26/99, Hilary Hayes wrote: > >Off at a tangent to the radiation thread, what about mosquitos? [...] But > >would a mosquito be =interested= in biting a celestial's vessel? Given > >that they're mostly driven by the smell of blood etc. > >They home in on warmth and CO2, IIRC? If so, hey, celestials have >body heat and they breathe. They have blood, too. And would presumably >be affected by any other injected "poison"... > > >If they =are= interested, I guess there's one very itchy Elohite in Athens > >(and one very itchy Impudite on the next balcony). > >Yup! Munch time. Scratchscratchscratch. (Though it does depend on if >the allergic reaction is part of vessels. Which might depend on which >Superior gave the vessel, and how much they like "realism" in the >vessels they create.) > >Of course, since the bugs in Heaven kindly don't bite (one assumes?), >and the only bugs in Hell are in Saminga's territory... Celestials >would certainly not think of that little incovenience. O;> It must be safe to say that Jordi's servitors' rare human vessels have all the allergies to bites, stings and so forth that you can imagine.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:41:15 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: IN> Online art recommendation G'day. For those of you who like to have pictures and art to play with in your games (mea culpa), here's a site I just found - http://www.digitalapocalypse.com. A lot of the work is pretty Gothy, but there's a fairly strong focus on angel/demon imagery and surrealism. You might find it useful. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Journalism is not a profession or a trade. It is a cheap catch-all for fuckoffs & misfits - a false doorway to the backside of life, a filthy piss-ridden little hole nailed off by the building inspector, but just deep enough for a wino to curl up from the sidewalk and masturbate like a chimp in a zoo-cage. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:56:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Heaven-Sworn Habbalah? I was wondering whether there is any particular reason that a recently former Elohite turned Habbalah couldn't choose to stay with the forces of Heaven rathern than defect to Hell. After all, He/she is in his/her mind still an angel serving God's will. Why couldn't a recently fallen Habbalah still not choose to work for the same side it was on, barring the rejection of other angels? As long as they followed orders and didn't undermine Heaven's efforts, why couldn't a pragmatic Superior such as Jean or Michael use them as servitors? After all, it is The War, and having them fight for the Right Side is more useful than destroying them outright or making them flee and bolster Hell's forces. All you have to do is convince them that demons are weak, and to only go after the targets their Superior wants them to, like Hellsworn Soldiers and Undead. Habbalah working for Heaven might even become to see themselves as akin to the Malakim, a new kind of Choir transformed by their passion and rightousness which now can't fall. I can't think of any objective reason why co-opting a fallen Habbalah before they are recruited by Hell could hurt more than it can help Heaven's cause, provided it were possible and they were properly utilized so that their natural tendencies were channeled to good use. The only objections I see are based upon subjective emotion and prejudice. Would this idea be a sound tactic in the War, or is there some reason that this shouldn't be attempted? Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:54:26 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos Elizabeth wrote: > Yup! Munch time. Scratchscratchscratch. (Though it does depend on if > the allergic reaction is part of vessels. Which might depend on which > Superior gave the vessel, and how much they like "realism" in the > vessels they create.) Since Superiors don't seem to give vessels any other allergies, I would doubt that they would give their servants an allergy to mosquito bites (since not all humans are allergic, ether). However, I could see allergies being used by Superiors as a 'pseudo Discord' punishment, if the servitor has displeased them slightly. "Here, have an allergy to mosquito bites, and have hayfever. Now, go back down to earth and think about what you've done while you are scratching and sneezing." > Of course, since the bugs in Heaven kindly don't bite (one assumes?), > and the only bugs in Hell are in Saminga's territory... Celestials > would certainly not think of that little incovenience. O;> Jordi would be horrified to hear you say that. A mosquito's idea of Heaven would probably be (for the females) a nice blood-rich vein and no one swatting at them. Jordi and his angels kindy oblige (not that it's real blood...) Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:56:50 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Heaven-Sworn Habbalah? At 4:56 PM -0500 4/27/99, Benjamin Acosta wrote: >I was wondering whether there is any particular reason that a recently >former Elohite turned Habbalah couldn't choose to stay with the forces of >Heaven rathern than defect to Hell. After all, He/she is in his/her mind >still an angel serving God's will. Why couldn't a recently fallen >Habbalah still not choose to work for the same side it was on, barring the >rejection of other angels? Various reasons, 1. As demons, the Light of Heaven burns them as much as any other Band. 2. Also, despite their delusions, down where it counts, they have rejected God's Symphony for one of their own. To reconcile this, they inevitably conclude that their former angelic brethren have fallen as much as the ones in the pit, corrupting Heaven itself into another Hell, only one riddled with deception and falsehood. This rationalisation reinforces the conviction that God has liberated the new Habbalite and placed it where it can do the most good... by punishing the weak, either those humans who have dammed themselves to the Pit, or others who stain the Earth with its presence, for Heaven has become a place they no longer can bear (in their minds). - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.concentric.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 1999 19:19:55 -0500 From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) Subject: Re: IN> Heaven-Sworn Habbalah? >>>>> "FL" == Frank Lazar writes: FL> At 4:56 PM -0500 4/27/99, Benjamin Acosta wrote: >> I was wondering whether there is any particular reason that a recently >> former Elohite turned Habbalah couldn't choose to stay with the forces of >> Heaven rathern than defect to Hell. FL> 1. As demons, the Light of Heaven burns them as much as any other Band. Except, of course, for Malakim. FL> 2. Also, despite their delusions, down where it counts, they have rejected FL> God's Symphony for one of their own. To reconcile this, they inevitably FL> conclude that their former angelic brethren have fallen as much as the ones FL> in the pit, corrupting Heaven itself into another Hell, only one riddled FL> with deception and falsehood. No no! You don't understand...the new Symphony that a newly-fledged Habbalah, having achieved the state above Elohim, hears is God's _True_ Symphony. The insipid noodling that one was able to hear as an Eloh was just a pale shadow the Lord provided for the lower orders of Angels unable to bear the full weight of His power and majesty. That's why Habbalah must always act on their subjective impulses without question: these impulses are direct insights into God's plan for them. Going against that plan would be dissonant. That said, there are plenty of reasons that Habbalah wouldn't want to work alongside the lower Choirs of Angels. It's not that they are corrupted, as you suggest, but simply that they are pathetic to watch. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:24:49 -0400 From: Hilary Hayes Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts >Depending on the time and place, they might suspect anything from demonic possession or witchcraft, through drugs, to alien invaders with Orbital Mind Control Lasers. But I don't think they suddenly discover the Shedite hiding in a corner of their mind.< I don't think so either. However, the host =does= know they're suddenly doing stuff they wouldn't normally do. Similarly, the Shedite sometimes has to 'push' the host. The relationship is complex. If there was no form of communication, the host couldn't resist. Perhaps I attribute more significance to the 'subconscious' than some people on this list. The concept of demonic possession is =not= all that alien to the modern mind. Otherwise why did movies like The Exorcist have such an effect on the public imagination? Perhaps some hosts later decide they've been abducted by aliens. The point is the host, to a certain extent, is =present= whilst the Shedite possesses him. Otherwise he could not be properly corrupted. It's one of the things that makes Shedites different from Kyriotates and, leaving host/Shedite communication out of the game makes life =far= too easy for the Shedite. The host should become more and more difficult to control and, personally, I find it hard to work out how this could be so if there was no two-way communication. Hilary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:37:30 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: IN> Stats for two Word-Bounds I have two Word bound Demons for need stats, and I am not orginized enough to come up with my own so I challenge you to write up: The Demon of Cuteness The Demon of Soccer Holligans It has begun, Bradley Paranial, Mercurian Vassal of War, who knows that God would never make anything already tainted so doesn't buy that "Malakim are already fallen" Crap ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:43:16 -0400 From: Judson Powers Subject: Re: IN> Stats for two Word-Bounds > The Demon of Cuteness That would be the demon of *annoying* cuteness, not to be confused with the Angel of Cuteness, a servitor of Novalis. I'm seeing a servitor of Beleth here. > The Demon of Soccer Holligans Ah, yes, the Demon of Soccer Moms (and other related persons), the evil servitor of Malphas. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:47:08 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Stats for two Word-Bounds Judson Powers wrote: > Ah, yes, the Demon of Soccer Moms (and other related persons), the evil > servitor of Malphas. No, no, two different demons. The Demon of Soccer Moms is a Habbalite of Gluttony serving Factions (serves great after-game snacks, but boy do you feel bad if you lose), while the Demon of Soccer Hooligans is an Impudite of Factions (and is actually an underling of the Demon of Rowdy Fans). - -EDG - -- EDG, Mercurian of Lightning ist Archives, Angel of Information Dissemination anthoch@earlham.edu "I like my technological, impersonal western culture just fine. I could give a rats ass about tribal people. So what if they live in a more egalitarian community. THEY DON'T HAVE AIR CONDITIONING!" - lostchilde on IRC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:21:31 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts At 21:24 -0400 4/27/99, Hilary Hayes wrote: > However, the host =does= know they're suddenly >doing stuff they wouldn't normally do. Similarly, the Shedite sometimes >has to 'push' the host. The relationship is complex. If there was no form >of communication, the host couldn't resist. I think we're using different meanings for "communication" here. I would have said, instead, that there is a form of "interaction", not "communication", though I can see using "communication" in the sense that physics might use it.... I see it as more of a one-way process, though, in that the Shedite is putting substantial information into the host's mind, and is able to access the host's memories, but it's all driven by the Shedite's own intent. All the host can really do is *reject* this outside input as being "abnormal", but it can't limit memory access (that I recall). > Perhaps I attribute more >significance to the 'subconscious' than some people on this list. The >concept of demonic possession is =not= all that alien to the modern mind. >Otherwise why did movies like The Exorcist have such an effect on the >public imagination? Well, I'd argue that this is simply an example of the fact that most people *don't* have "modern minds"... but that's just my rationalist Elohite prejudices speaking.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1210 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.