From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Apr 30 11:50:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15927 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:50:26 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA06884 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:44:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:44:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199904301644.LAA06884@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1212 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, April 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1212 In this digest: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Mosquitos Re: IN> Mosquitos IN> A Thought Experiment Re: IN> A Thought Experiment Re: IN> A Thought Experiment Re: IN> A Thought Experiment Re: IN> A Thought Experiment Re: IN> Re: batman IN> Thoughts on Vessels (was Mosquitos) Re: IN> A Thought Experiment IN> $$$ One Year Guarantee!! $$$ L@@K NOW $$$ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:40:17 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Hilary Hayes wrote: > >The problem of prejudice lies in the etymology of the word. 'Pre-judice' - >to have an opinion prior to judging the evidence. One needs to look, >carefully and objectively, at all the available evidence before forming a >judgement. Opinions may be formed (provided they are neither acted upon >without regard to the equally valid opinions or others nor 'held' in the >sense of being hung onto despite evidence to the contrary) but judging an >issue =before= the evidence has been assessed is, surely, dissonant. > >As to the question of rationality as opposed to irrationality - where does >that leave Faith? "Faith" in the Christian tradition doesn't usually mean belief in God's existence, or the awareness of man's sinful nature and the need for redemption -- these two are covered under the "any idiot can see this is true" clause. (Fortunately, I'm not just any idiot...) What Faith covers is trust in the promises of Scripture; in other words, faith is trust in God that He will live up to the promises He has made to mankind. This is something that can certainly be tested by observation and analysis. The Elohim in IN can see by direct observation that the wicked and sinful beings who have rejected Grace are punished with separation from God, and those who put their trust in Him and tried to live justly and in accordance with His commands are brought into Paradise where they can enjoy the divine Presence forever. So for an Elohite it's only logical to serve Heaven. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:06:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > "Faith" in the Christian tradition doesn't usually mean belief in > God's existence, or the awareness of man's sinful nature and the need > for redemption -- these two are covered under the "any idiot can > see this is true" clause. (Fortunately, I'm not just any idiot...) What > Faith covers is trust in the promises of Scripture; in other words, > faith is trust in God that He will live up to the promises He has > made to mankind. > > This is something that can certainly be tested by observation > and analysis. The Elohim in IN can see by direct observation that > the wicked and sinful beings who have rejected Grace are punished > with separation from God, and those who put their trust in Him > and tried to live justly and in accordance with His commands are > brought into Paradise where they can enjoy the divine Presence > forever. So for an Elohite it's only logical to serve Heaven. I have to pick some nits here. First of all, putting one's trust in God and living according to His commands is -not-, I repeat, NOT what gets you into Heaven. It's being unselfish, which doesn't have anything to do with whether you believe in God or not, period. Secondly, the average, run-of-the-mill Elohite hasn't been to the Higher Heavens, so it doesn't really -know- what's up there, or what happens to the souls who go there. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:45:09 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts At 6:06 PM +0200 4/29/99, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > > > "Faith" in the Christian tradition doesn't usually mean belief in > > God's existence, or the awareness of man's sinful nature and the need > > for redemption -- these two are covered under the "any idiot can > > see this is true" clause. (Fortunately, I'm not just any idiot...) What > > Faith covers is trust in the promises of Scripture; in other words, > > faith is trust in God that He will live up to the promises He has > > made to mankind. > > > > This is something that can certainly be tested by observation > > and analysis. The Elohim in IN can see by direct observation that > > the wicked and sinful beings who have rejected Grace are punished > > with separation from God, and those who put their trust in Him > > and tried to live justly and in accordance with His commands are > > brought into Paradise where they can enjoy the divine Presence > > forever. So for an Elohite it's only logical to serve Heaven. > >I have to pick some nits here. First of all, putting one's trust in God >and living according to His commands is -not-, I repeat, NOT what gets you >into Heaven. It's being unselfish, which doesn't have anything to do with >whether you believe in God or not, period. But this supports the reason why Elohim support Heaven and Habbalah support Hell, In My Elohite Opinion: Elohim can objectively recognize that selflessness is the promotion of the whole over the self. More points of view, more populace -- in the whole, a greater percentage of the whole. Objectively, the most good can be done in this position. Heaven is oriented towards selflessness and the group, and therefore it is the rational choice for allegience. Habbalah are Subjectivity on a Stick -- it's their way or the highway, and if you don't see their way you must Punish Those Who Disagree because they're weak. And the weak are nothing. Only the stong are worthy. Which is to say, the individual strong enough not to warrent punishment, not the masses of the weak. Sure, there are *demons* in Hell, but to the Habbalite, that just means that the tools to *really* do their jobs are at their disposal. Besides, those people in Heaven are delusional. Better to work with a pack of loathsome demons who have the Guts to do what they have to do and see the world as it is, than to serve a mewling standard in Heaven and deny God's Will. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:59:12 -0400 From: Hilary Hayes Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos This is from Ashley rather than Hilary - we share the same account. Guess you guys will get used to this in time. Celestial vessels are immune to disease this is made perfectly clear. A disease requires a foreign organism. A celestial would not get malaria from a mosquito bite. Celestial vessels are not immune to damage. They are harder to damage and recover quicker. They are not immune to poisons. Mosquito bites itch due to materials in the saliva (for want of a better term) of mosquitos. It contains materials which are amongst other things an irritant. An irritant is a poison in a very small quantity. One wasp sting is an irritant, 1,000 wasp stings is potentially fatal. The same goes for prescription drugs, one tablet good, 1,000 bad. The same goes for spider venom, one bite not too bad (assuming a non letal variety of spider which most are). Collect the venom from 1000 of the same species, put them in a syringe, and inject... This is bad news. Venoms and many irritants are organic in nature (many venoms for example have a protein structure). The immune system reacts to these, this is what causes the irritation, inflammation, swelling, fever, etc. As far as I can tell Celestial vessels are not immune to venoms, they are tougher, heal quicker, but they do react to damaging substances. The difference appears to be Organism. Why this should be is not clear, but it cannot be a simple immunological reaction (though I am not am immunologist so would not like this to be taken as fact. The immune system is complex and does to a point react differently depending on the nature of the invading organism or substance) Celestial vessels seem to be immune to organisms (disease) but not irritants, toxins etc. More simply, Celestial vessels appear to be immune to (or destroy) anything internal which contains DNA or RNA. (This could also explain why celestial vessels are sterile). Perhaps the nature of celestials (number of forces or quantities of essence) does not allow for foreign organisms to infect the vessel, but it must be due to the vessel because as far as I can see Shedim and Kiriotates can get diseases etc. I guess a vessel made in Heaven or Hell is better (perfect) and simply does not catch a cold. Just my thoughts, Ashley. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:10:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > At 6:06 PM +0200 4/29/99, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > >On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > > > > > "Faith" in the Christian tradition doesn't usually mean belief in > > > God's existence, or the awareness of man's sinful nature and the need > > > for redemption -- these two are covered under the "any idiot can > > > see this is true" clause. (Fortunately, I'm not just any idiot...) What > > > Faith covers is trust in the promises of Scripture; in other words, > > > faith is trust in God that He will live up to the promises He has > > > made to mankind. > > > > > > This is something that can certainly be tested by observation > > > and analysis. The Elohim in IN can see by direct observation that > > > the wicked and sinful beings who have rejected Grace are punished > > > with separation from God, and those who put their trust in Him > > > and tried to live justly and in accordance with His commands are > > > brought into Paradise where they can enjoy the divine Presence > > > forever. So for an Elohite it's only logical to serve Heaven. > > > >I have to pick some nits here. First of all, putting one's trust in God > >and living according to His commands is -not-, I repeat, NOT what gets you > >into Heaven. It's being unselfish, which doesn't have anything to do with > >whether you believe in God or not, period. > > But this supports the reason why Elohim support Heaven and Habbalah > support Hell, In My Elohite Opinion: > > Elohim can objectively recognize that selflessness is the > promotion of the whole over the self. More points of view, more > populace -- in the whole, a greater percentage of the whole. > Objectively, the most good can be done in this position. Heaven is > oriented towards selflessness and the group, and therefore it is the > rational choice for allegience. > > Habbalah are Subjectivity on a Stick -- it's their way or the > highway, and if you don't see their way you must Punish Those Who > Disagree because they're weak. And the weak are nothing. Only the > stong are worthy. Which is to say, the individual strong enough not > to warrent punishment, not the masses of the weak. Sure, there are > *demons* in Hell, but to the Habbalite, that just means that the > tools to *really* do their jobs are at their disposal. Besides, > those people in Heaven are delusional. Better to work with a pack of > loathsome demons who have the Guts to do what they have to do and see > the world as it is, than to serve a mewling standard in Heaven and > deny God's Will. That's pretty much my veiw too. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:12:19 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts At 21:08 -0400 4/28/99, EDG wrote: >> As to the question of rationality as opposed to irrationality - where does >> that leave Faith? > >Elohim don't need Faith. They Know God's up there. Actually, they know He *was* up there. And it's highly probable He's still around somewhere, given that Interventions still happen, and the Symphony can still be heard. But they haven't seen Him recently, in person.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:59:12 -0400 From: Hilary Hayes Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos This is from Ashley rather than Hilary - we share the same account. Guess you guys will get used to this in time. Celestial vessels are immune to disease this is made perfectly clear. A disease requires a foreign organism. A celestial would not get malaria from a mosquito bite. Celestial vessels are not immune to damage. They are harder to damage and recover quicker. They are not immune to poisons. Mosquito bites itch due to materials in the saliva (for want of a better term) of mosquitos. It contains materials which are amongst other things an irritant. An irritant is a poison in a very small quantity. One wasp sting is an irritant, 1,000 wasp stings is potentially fatal. The same goes for prescription drugs, one tablet good, 1,000 bad. The same goes for spider venom, one bite not too bad (assuming a non letal variety of spider which most are). Collect the venom from 1000 of the same species, put them in a syringe, and inject... This is bad news. Venoms and many irritants are organic in nature (many venoms for example have a protein structure). The immune system reacts to these, this is what causes the irritation, inflammation, swelling, fever, etc. As far as I can tell Celestial vessels are not immune to venoms, they are tougher, heal quicker, but they do react to damaging substances. The difference appears to be Organism. Why this should be is not clear, but it cannot be a simple immunological reaction (though I am not am immunologist so would not like this to be taken as fact. The immune system is complex and does to a point react differently depending on the nature of the invading organism or substance) Celestial vessels seem to be immune to organisms (disease) but not irritants, toxins etc. More simply, Celestial vessels appear to be immune to (or destroy) anything internal which contains DNA or RNA. (This could also explain why celestial vessels are sterile). Perhaps the nature of celestials (number of forces or quantities of essence) does not allow for foreign organisms to infect the vessel, but it must be due to the vessel because as far as I can see Shedim and Kiriotates can get diseases etc. I guess a vessel made in Heaven or Hell is better (perfect) and simply does not catch a cold. Just my thoughts, Ashley. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:19:13 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos At 10:41 -0400 4/29/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >There remains question of WHY are vessels immune to disease? My take on it is that vessel biochemistry really doesn't work normally, so viruses and bacteria simply can't reproduce inside a vessel -- their attack mechanisms just don't work, and/or there's no nourishment for them. (You might get bacteria in the GI tract of celestials who typically eat, though.) So there's no *need* for an immune system of the normal sort, which isn't to say that it didn't get copied along with most of the other characteristics of a normal corporeal body. (My view of vessels is that the Superior simply duplicates parts of the normal Symphony that relate to physical bodies, and then tweaks that to interface to the celestial owner and make it part of him. Thus, vessels are by default very close to the original physical body, with a few specific changes relating to the celestial nature of the inhabitant.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:40:04 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos At 1:19 PM -0400 4/29/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 10:41 -0400 4/29/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >There remains question of WHY are vessels immune to disease? > >My take on it is that vessel biochemistry really doesn't work normally, >so viruses and bacteria simply can't reproduce inside a vessel -- their >attack mechanisms just don't work, and/or there's no nourishment for them. >(You might get bacteria in the GI tract of celestials who typically eat, >though.) > >So there's no *need* for an immune system of the normal sort, which isn't >to say that it didn't get copied along with most of the other characteristics >of a normal corporeal body. > >(My view of vessels is that the Superior simply duplicates parts of the >normal Symphony that relate to physical bodies, and then tweaks that to >interface to the celestial owner and make it part of him. Thus, vessels are >by default very close to the original physical body, with a few specific >changes relating to the celestial nature of the inhabitant.) > So you're saying -- in effect -- that the human body, the pinnicle of human evolution, the temple of the mind and soul, the inspiration of Michaelangelo and the scurge of the Religious Right... is Open Source? And they're taking it, and Compiling it inside of of the Celestial's OS, so that Celestials can run vessels native? Man, I need to keep up with comp.sci.sources more often.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:59:42 +0300 From: "Tick Tock" Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts - -----Original Message----- From: EDG >Elohim don't need Faith. They Know God's up there. > >-EDG > As did the angels that fell, and those that continue to fall. The faith is in believing that God is ultimately right, just and good (not necessarily in that order, depends on the angel). Aside from the possibility of an atheist Elohim that's never met God (in a universe of infinite possibilities there has to be one) I would say that an Elohim without faith is in danger of falling. Tick Tock ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:30:50 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Tick Tock wrote: > From: EDG > > >Elohim don't need Faith. They Know God's up there. > > > >-EDG > > > > As did the angels that fell, and those that continue to fall. "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." -- James 2:19 Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:03:19 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos At 13:40 -0400 4/29/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >So you're saying -- in effect -- that the human body, the pinnicle of >human evolution, Any Vapulan (or probably any other demon, not to mention some of Jordi's angels): "Don't count on *that*, monkey boy..." > the temple of the mind and soul, the inspiration of >Michaelangelo and the scurge of the Religious Right... is Open Source? Only to those who bought access to the Symphony, and it's expensive. Only Superiors can afford it.... >And they're taking it, and Compiling it inside of of the Celestial's >OS, so that Celestials can run vessels native? More instantiating a copy and connecting it up to the Vessel API of the celestial. >Man, I need to keep up with comp.sci.sources more often.... Try comp.sci.sources.biotech.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:36:35 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos At 12:59 -0400 4/29/99, Hilary Hayes wrote: >The difference appears to be Organism. Why this should be is not clear, >but it cannot be a simple immunological reaction Actually, it's not too hard to explain -- diseases almost always require those organisms to *reproduce* inside the body before they cause actual symptoms. If celestials somehow surpress the disease reproduction process, then the there's a few virii or bacteria running around the vessel, but they're pretty harmless in that quantity, just like the point you made about poisons/venoms. >Perhaps the nature of celestials (number of forces or quantities of >essence) does not allow for foreign organisms to infect the vessel, but it >must be due to the vessel because as far as I can see Shedim and Kiriotates >can get diseases etc. Actually, I thought canon on this ran the other way; Elizabeth will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong. But it's my understanding that a possessed body takes on all the attributes of a celestial vessel while possessed. What isn't as clear to me is what happens when a diseased host is possessed. My inclination is to say the progress of the disease would be arrested, and the celestial's superior repair processes would start correcting any disease damage, but that symptoms wouldn't necessarily vanish instantly. Once possession ended, the disease would begin to progress normally. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:30:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mosquitos At 4:36 PM -0400 4/29/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 12:59 -0400 4/29/99, Hilary Hayes wrote: >>Perhaps the nature of celestials (number of forces or quantities of >>essence) does not allow for foreign organisms to infect the vessel, but it >>must be due to the vessel because as far as I can see Shedim and Kiriotates >>can get diseases etc. > >Actually, I thought canon on this ran the other way; Elizabeth will no doubt >correct me if I'm wrong. But it's my understanding that a possessed body >takes on all the attributes of a celestial vessel while possessed. What he said. While possessed by a Kyriotate or Shedite, the host is as if a vessel. (I forget what I ruled regarding the Song of Possession.) >What isn't as clear to me is what happens when a diseased host is possessed. >My inclination is to say the progress of the disease would be arrested, and >the celestial's superior repair processes would start correcting any disease >damage, but that symptoms wouldn't necessarily vanish instantly. Once >possession ended, the disease would begin to progress normally. That's what I'd rule, probably -- though I might not let the repair-processes start fixing things! (By might not, that means I'm not making a full canon declaration.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:07:41 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: IN> A Thought Experiment First go to www.infoseek.com, or any other search engine you prefer Second enter "Archangel Michael" Third look at the sites Finally estimate how long before our Favorite Ass Kicking Seraph would last before he got fed up, Grabbed the Holy Axe of Doom , Went down to Perdition, and hacked Nybbas to bits. Comment Welcome Bradley Paranial, Mercurian Vassal of War, who would galdly assisst his Suprior in this endevor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:27:56 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> A Thought Experiment On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 paranial@creighton.edu wrote: [snip] > Finally estimate how long before our Favorite Ass Kicking Seraph would > last before he got fed up, Grabbed the Holy Axe of Doom , Went down > to Perdition, and hacked Nybbas to bits. is that with or without factoring in other Superiors like Blandine and Jordi trying to talk him down (i'm sure Jordi, if he has a sense of irony, would be rolling on the floor...)? without, probably instantly after frequenting four or five sites. with ... just short of instantly.... -=|horsefly|=- _Illegitimi non corborundum._ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:31:16 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> A Thought Experiment p.s.--that might be a good way to begin an In Nomine story. Michael has just gone to Perdition and soul-killed its master, then gone back to Heaven for refreshments and to give the new score to his buddy, Laurence. let the demons ponder that! hell, if it's a demonic game with Media-Servitors, let 'em watch helplessly. what do they do now that their Prince is dead? and what do the other Princes do in the uproar? i like it! -=|horsefly|=- "Note to self: bring more ammo." --Elisa Cameron, GHOST #8 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:26:10 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: Re: IN> A Thought Experiment On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 paranial@creighton.edu wrote: > [snip] > > Finally estimate how long before our Favorite Ass Kicking Seraph would > > last before he got fed up, Grabbed the Holy Axe of Doom , Went down > > to Perdition, and hacked Nybbas to bits. > is that with or without factoring in other Superiors like Blandine > and Jordi trying to talk him down (i'm sure Jordi, if he has a sense of > irony, would be rolling on the floor...)? without, probably instantly > after frequenting four or five sites. with ... just short of > instantly.... > -=|horsefly|=- > _Illegitimi non corborundum._ > > Blandine I can understand but *Jordi* please clairify. Bonus what would be the Demon Prince of The Media's Last Words after. The Archangel of War Greeted him with a simple "YOU" Bradley Paranial, Mercurian Vassal of War, who likes to talk about mutilating Imputites. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:47:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> A Thought Experiment On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 paranial@creighton.edu wrote: > > First go to www.infoseek.com, or any other search engine you prefer > > Second enter "Archangel Michael" > > Third look at the sites > > Finally estimate how long before our Favorite Ass Kicking Seraph would > last before he got fed up, Grabbed the Holy Axe of Doom , Went down to > Perdition, and hacked Nybbas to bits. Actually, when using the Google search engine (www.google.com) the first 20 (at least) were almost all churches, catholic schools, and pages with actual information about Michael. There was some other stuff too, of course... :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:42:48 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Re: batman >Got a good quote here somewhere (sounds of creaking as hydrax searches through his old Commodore 64 for the file labelled quotes) here it is: > >"Each of you has a battle to fight. That is why you came tonight - although there are many, many more such as yourselves. Most of these battles will be small ones, yet that does not mean they are not important. For this is how this war will be won or lost, by a thousand little battles, each fouoght by one person standing alone against the darkness - or surendering to it." Dude. I must know whence this quote came. Who said it? - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Plots and Plans. What everyone should have to cook with." - Elizabeth McCoy (personal interview 3/23/99) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:35:46 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Thoughts on Vessels (was Mosquitos) I suspect that, physically, vessels simply ARE human bodies (or bodies of whatever natural species), without a molecule out of place, probably because they are, in some Platonic way, patterned after the relevant theme in the Symphony. If you could encounter a vessel with no celestial attached (by finding and opening a body bag?) you'd probably find something indistinguishable from a normal human in what is, I think, called a "persistent vegetative state" or maybe in a coma or a petit mal seizure with no end. One of those states where the lights are on but nobody's home. And, if you could find such an uninhabited vessel, it would soon start needing food and such, just like any regular mortal, I bet. On the hypothesis that they're physically identical to living mortal bodies, nothing else could happen. It's the Corporeal Forces of the inhabiting celestial that make a vessel tireless, extra tough, and immune to hunger and thirst and disease. That's why Kyrios and Shedim turn their hosts into vessels when they possess. And this illustrates one of the ways that a celestial soul is fundamentally different from an earthly soul: With us, strength and toughness are consequences of the structure of our bodies. I would say that, for us, our bodies ARE our Corporeal Forces. For a celestial, strength has nothing to do with the vessel, and endurance is only partly dependent on vessel; the vessel does nothing but add armoring, in effect. A celestial has Corporeal Forces that are nevertheless immaterial. They do not relate to their vessels as we do to our bodies. Vessels and bodies are physically identical but metaphysically quite different. For a celestial, a vessel is more like a suit of armor, or a Vorlon's encounter suit -- providing protection, disguise, and an interface, and nothing more. For us, on the same analogy, the material vehicle is more like the carapace of a lobster, an integral part. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:19:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A Thought Experiment At 7:07 PM -0500 4/29/99, paranial@creighton.edu wrote: >Finally estimate how long before our Favorite Ass Kicking Seraph would >last before he got fed up, Grabbed the Holy Axe of Doom , Went down to >Perdition, and hacked Nybbas to bits. Good thing that Michael's not the sort to surf the Web, I guess... Now we know why Jean has a "hostility" to Michael -- it's not necessarily that he's _personally_ hostile, so much as that he knows Michael would get... non-objective if he found some of the stuff on the Web. Keep him away from computers. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 01:41:05 +0900 From: regebe62@mail.jinro.co.kr (tyreorn) Subject: IN> $$$ One Year Guarantee!! $$$ L@@K NOW $$$ Easy Home Business. All you do is send out this exact e-mail! We give you FREE tools to do it! You can reach thousands of prospects every day. I made $1500 my first week advertising an 800#. #1 Home-Business TWO years in a row. One Year GUARANTEE. THIS WORKS! You will be given step by step instructions on how to work this program on line and off line. I am making HUNDREDS by placing ads in newspapers around my city! And, even more sending out this EXACT e-mail. Simple 3 line ads work. You've heard it on TV, you've read it in the papers! This program includes an 800# and a code! You have virtually zero overhead! You can start earning the same day! 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