From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri May 7 12:40:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA32259 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:40:17 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA00535 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:36:35 -0500 Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:36:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199905071736.MAA00535@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1217 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, May 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1217 In this digest: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> A Demon We All Know IN> Christopher's angels (was "A Demon We All Know") Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> Christopher's angels (was "A Demon We All Know") Re: IN> A Demon We All Know IN> (OT) LISTEN UP Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> A Demon We All Know IN> The Purple One Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> The Purple One IN> In Nomine Fan in Cleveland, Ohio Re: IN> The Purple One Re: IN> The Purple One ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 15:32:51 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know On Thu, May 06, 1999 at 10:06:38AM -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > What particular evil does "B'Harni" promulgate, other than > being pitched at a demographic that is pre-ironic and > pre-sarcastic? He could just as readily be written up as > a Mercurian of Christopher. > I suppose it depends on whether you find him patronising or not. Personally, I wonder what demographic it is aimed at. Pre-8? Pre-6? Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "It is an impressive thing to hear a helpless woman damned in every item of her life, every corner of her soul. For good reason, no one accused by the Temple has ever been found innocent." Ser Visal's Tale, by Stephen Donaldson. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 09:44:34 -0500 From: Seth Buntain Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know At 10:06 AM -0500 5/6/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >What particular evil does "B'Harni" promulgate, other than >being pitched at a demographic that is pre-ironic and >pre-sarcastic? He could just as readily be written up as >a Mercurian of Christopher. Its not what particular evil he promotes, its that he IS EVIL! :) The Teletubbies (tm) are Mercurians of Christopher. My favorite tho is Captain Kangaroo as a Malakite or Cherub of Christopher hehe. >Earl - -- Seth Buntain Northwestern University enthar@nwu.edu "Magic is always the best solution, especially reliable magic." - -from the program 'fortune'. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 10:49:14 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Kevin Walsh wrote: > I suppose it depends on whether you find him patronising or not. > Personally, I wonder what demographic it is aimed at. Pre-8? Pre-6? Perhaps I don't find him patronizing because I don't feel he's talking to me, but rather to the three-year-old sitting next to me, hugging the Barney doll. From the assumed level of literacy in the shows, I would guess he's pitched at 6 and under. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 10:58:32 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Christopher's angels (was "A Demon We All Know") I don't have the Christopher write-up; is it possible for his servitors (cherubim in particular, I suppose) to show up as a child's "imaginary playmate"? If mechanics don't already exist, it seems to me Christopher and Blandine could do something interesting together regarding these. A young child, arguably, might have a more permeable boundary between waking and dreaming states, so that a Christopheric cherub could hang out in the kid's waking-dreamscape as "imaginary playmate," offering guidance. (I am thinking, actually, of Hobbes, from "Calvin and Hobbes." Ever notice how the imaginary member of that team seemed to have more common sense and decency than the corporeal member?) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 11:23:31 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know On Thu, 6 May 1999, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > What particular evil does "B'Harni" promulgate, other than > being pitched at a demographic that is pre-ironic and > pre-sarcastic? He could just as readily be written up as > a Mercurian of Christopher. > > Earl > Anyone who tells children that "Strangers are just Freinds We Haven't met" or that it is fun to run around with a box on your head, or ti catch bees has to be evil. And there is "That Song" Chirs must be having a cow Bradley Paranial, Mercurian Vassal of War. Aspiring of membership in the Jihad to Destroy Barney the Dinosaur. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 13:45:57 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know At 11:23 AM -0500 5/6/99, paranial@creighton.edu wrote: >On Thu, 6 May 1999, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > > What particular evil does "B'Harni" promulgate, other than > > being pitched at a demographic that is pre-ironic and > > pre-sarcastic? He could just as readily be written up as > > a Mercurian of Christopher. > > > > Earl > > > > > >Anyone who tells children that "Strangers are just Freinds We Haven't met" >or that it is fun to run around with a box on your head, or ti catch bees >has to be evil. > > >And there is "That Song" > (Note -- this is merely seeing the Purple One as a demon in IN terms. All in all I've grown complacent with him in life.) That song is an Impudite's dream given form in Mercurian terms. I love you You love me We're a happy family With a great big hug And a kiss from me to you Won't you say you love me too. So, two opportunities to steal essence, one couplet of propeganda and a commandment/reinforcement. Furthermore, the subtle implication that this figure the person only sees on a television screen is actually a family member demeans the connections between real family members and inculcates a dependence and belief in the love and famial connection between the viewer and television. Furthermore, as the song takes a classic children's song, sung by a group cheerfully, and resets propegandish words to it, it not only is perverting the intent of the Word of Children (and likely the Word of Children's Songs), it is supplanting true affection and tradition with Nybbasian substitutes. B'Harni is a *clear* Impudite of the Media, conditioning patterns of behavior that, while moderatly innocuous on the surface, bear fruit as the years pass. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 22:39:58 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know On Thu, 6 May 1999, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > (Note -- this is merely seeing the Purple One as a demon in IN terms. > All in all I've grown complacent with him in life.) > > That song is an Impudite's dream given form in Mercurian terms. > > > I love you > You love me > We're a happy family > With a great big hug > And a kiss from me to you > Won't you say you love me too. > > > So, two opportunities to steal essence, one couplet of propeganda and > a commandment/reinforcement. Furthermore, the subtle implication > that this figure the person only sees on a television screen is > actually a family member demeans the connections between real family > members and inculcates a dependence and belief in the love and famial > connection between the viewer and television. > > Furthermore, as the song takes a classic children's song, sung by a > group cheerfully, and resets propegandish words to it, it not only is > perverting the intent of the Word of Children (and likely the Word of > Children's Songs), it is supplanting true affection and tradition > with Nybbasian substitutes. Oh, come on! Propaganda? What kind of propaganda? That people should be nice to each other? B'Harni may be spreading propaganda, but this is hardly it. I mean, it doesn't even have a point of view to brainwash the little tykes to follow! :) > B'Harni is a *clear* Impudite of the Media, conditioning patterns of > behavior that, while moderatly innocuous on the surface, bear fruit > as the years pass. Like what? Hugging random strangers on the street? I can see how that might be annoying, but hardly threatening the fabric of society. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 20:54:49 +0100 From: Mark Baker Subject: Re: IN> Christopher's angels (was "A Demon We All Know") Earl Wajenberg writes >(I am thinking, actually, of Hobbes, from "Calvin and Hobbes." >Ever notice how the imaginary member of that team seemed to have >more common sense and decency than the corporeal member?) > You mean Hobbes isn't a real tiger? - -- Mark Baker (L'Ange de l'Abime) aka. Simeon, Mercurian of Novalis aka. Rebekkah, Menunite of Blandine "Some of my best friends are demons. You know where you stand with them." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 15:59:32 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know In a message dated 5/6/99 1:04:11 PM Central Daylight Time, in-sabre@annotations.com writes: << B'Harni is a *clear* Impudite of the Media, conditioning patterns of behavior that, while moderatly innocuous on the surface, bear fruit as the years pass. >> Personally, I think you're just trying to make him demonic because you hate him and find him irritating. Well, hey, so do I! But I don't see how... I love you You love me We're a happy family With a great big hug And a kiss from me to you Won't you say you love me too. ...can be construed as demonic propaganda. It sounds a lot like Love thy neighbor and don't be shy about showing it. It says nothing about Pretend to Love thy neighbor until you have no more use for him. I think we should all suck it up and admit that that damned annoying purple thing has a positive message for the pre-6 crowd. On a related note, remember Pee-Wee's Playhouse? Every week Pee-Wee would give the child a word and have them scream at the top of their lungs whenever they heard it. Their poor parents were in hell for the next two or three days if not longer. I'm not sure what Word that is (probably Media or Dark Humor) but it's definitely Evil. Yours, Reverend Brian A. Rogers P.S. I really am a Reverend now. There's a church in Sacramento that'll ordain anyone for $20. Isn't that cool? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 01:09:34 -0500 (CDT) From: GraveyardGreg@webtv.net Subject: IN> (OT) LISTEN UP For those of you who visit the Gaming Outpost, we have a feature called LISTEN UP, where we get gaming designers, writers, and others who are involved with giving us worlds to play in. First, we had John Tynes (of Unknown Armies), then Hal Mangold (Weird West Manager of Deadlands), and now we have one of the Founding Fathers of Dungeons and Dragons. WE GOT GARY GYGAX!!!!! So go to the Gaming Outpost and see what he's got to say. It's pretty good. Graveyard Greg Gaming Outpost News Reporter http://www.gamingoutpost.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:06:30 +0300 From: "Tick Tock" Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know - -----Original Message----- From: Anders Gabrielsson > >> B'Harni is a *clear* Impudite of the Media, conditioning patterns of >> behavior that, while moderatly innocuous on the surface, bear fruit >> as the years pass. > >Like what? Hugging random strangers on the street? I can see how that >might be annoying, but hardly threatening the fabric of society. :) > >Anders Gabrielsson Like conditioning children to trust and heed the image. The image is your friend. He cares about you. Don't you care about him? He just wants you to be happy. In a demonic campaign I could parley this into a frustrated teen with a lack of empathy for his fellow humans. From there he/she is a wonderful target for my demonic buds to play with. Of course by then I'll have the word of children's programming (after crushing the demon that holds the word of Nintendo) and have moved on to better things and a less ridiculous form. Tick Tock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:21:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know On Fri, 7 May 1999, Tick Tock wrote: > From: Anders Gabrielsson > > > >> B'Harni is a *clear* Impudite of the Media, conditioning patterns of > >> behavior that, while moderatly innocuous on the surface, bear fruit > >> as the years pass. > > > >Like what? Hugging random strangers on the street? I can see how that > >might be annoying, but hardly threatening the fabric of society. :) > > > Like conditioning children to trust and heed the image. The image is your > friend. He cares about you. Don't you care about him? He just wants you to be > happy. The image of B'Harni? If that's their goal, they haven't succeeded very well, I think. Most kids leave him behind after a couple of years, right? If it's some other kind of image you're talking about I'm afraid you'll have to explain it to me. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 01:25:35 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know - ----- Original Message ----- From: Anders Gabrielsson To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 1:39 PM Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know > Like what? Hugging random strangers on the street? I can see how that > might be annoying, but hardly threatening the fabric of society. :) > > Anders Gabrielsson Well, now that you mention it... Barney is a step backwards in children's programming. It doesn't teach responsibility or problem solving. It doesn't prepare anyone to deal with trouble. You just sing. If reality sucks, you imagine something else. Don't get me wrong. I'm a big supporter of encouraging imagination...but I feel this represents a dumbing down of children's programming. Like Sesame Street with the Elmo thing...it's lowering quality. And children are really the most important task we have. If we don't produce new competent users, all our programming and hardware design goes to waste... Sean ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:40:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know On Fri, 7 May 1999, Sean McCarthy wrote: > From: Anders Gabrielsson > > > Like what? Hugging random strangers on the street? I can see how that > > might be annoying, but hardly threatening the fabric of society. :) > > Well, now that you mention it... > > Barney is a step backwards in children's programming. It doesn't teach > responsibility or problem solving. It doesn't prepare anyone to deal with > trouble. You just sing. If reality sucks, you imagine something else. > > Don't get me wrong. I'm a big supporter of encouraging imagination...but > I feel this represents a dumbing down of children's programming. Like Sesame > Street with the Elmo thing...it's lowering quality. > > And children are really the most important task we have. If we don't > produce new competent users, all our programming and hardware design goes to > waste... You may well be right. I really shouldn't have gone into this debate, I suppose, not being from the US and hence having been spared the Purple Wonder. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 03:19:56 PDT From: "Hydrax 59" Subject: IN> The Purple One >What particular evil does "B'Harni" promulgate, other than >being pitched at a demographic that is pre-ironic and >pre-sarcastic? He could just as readily be written up as >a Mercurian of Christopher. > >Earl You sick, sick boy. The purple one represents the very pinnacle of evil. By putting into impressionable young children's minds a sickeningly twee image of the world, he sets them up for a fall into despair, suicide, or murderous rampage. And more souls flow to his true master, Kronos (Nybbas? Yeah right!) "I hate you, You hate me, Let's get together and kill B'Harni. With a gun and a knife and a $*#@ing huge grenade, No wonder B'harni will be flayed" A very scandalised Hydrax (even Calabim are sickened by some things) P.S. Isn't there some reverend something over in your country who was saying tinky winky is gay because purple is the gay pride colour? ... wait a minute, it's a conspiracy (No, I do not serve Malphas >;)) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:32:09 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know On Fri, May 07, 1999 at 09:21:14AM +0200, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > The image of B'Harni? If that's their goal, they haven't succeeded very > well, I think. Most kids leave him behind after a couple of years, right? > If it's some other kind of image you're talking about I'm afraid you'll > have to explain it to me. :) > As far as I can tell, the image of Barney among older children is that he's funny because he's ridiculous. Personally what I find most offensive about that program is the poor quality of the acting. I'm sure there are good child actors out there. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "It is an impressive thing to hear a helpless woman damned in every item of her life, every corner of her soul. For good reason, no one accused by the Temple has ever been found innocent." Ser Visal's Tale, by Stephen Donaldson. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:06:20 -0400 From: "CHRIS V" Subject: Re: IN> The Purple One I went to a Dreamcon some years back (in Everett WA) were suckling Dino (purple too) was served at an event.... .... And a shot rang out and Barney hit the floor No more purple Dinosaur Chris V. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Hydrax 59 To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 1999 6:19 Subject: IN> The Purple One > >What particular evil does "B'Harni" promulgate, other than > >being pitched at a demographic that is pre-ironic and > >pre-sarcastic? He could just as readily be written up as > >a Mercurian of Christopher. > > > >Earl > > You sick, sick boy. The purple one represents the very pinnacle of evil. By > putting into impressionable young children's minds a sickeningly twee image > of the world, he sets them up for a fall into despair, suicide, or murderous > rampage. And more souls flow to his true master, Kronos (Nybbas? Yeah > right!) > > "I hate you, You hate me, > Let's get together and kill B'Harni. > With a gun and a knife and a $*#@ing huge grenade, > No wonder B'harni will be flayed" > > A very scandalised Hydrax (even Calabim are sickened by some things) > > P.S. Isn't there some reverend something over in your country who was saying > tinky winky is gay because purple is the gay pride colour? > ... wait a minute, it's a conspiracy > (No, I do not serve Malphas >;)) > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:03:29 -0400 From: Christian Hamm Subject: IN> In Nomine Fan in Cleveland, Ohio Hello, I am a recent convert to In Nomine, and am now facing the dilemma of not being able to find people in my area who play. Do you have any suggestions or names in Cleveland, Ohio that I may be able to contact. Thank You, Christian Hamm cdhamm@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:10:59 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> The Purple One In a message dated 5/7/99 5:02:15 AM, grrey@prodigy.net writes: >I went to a Dreamcon some years back (in Everett, WA) were suckling Dino >(purple too) was served at an event.... > Considering that Dreamcon has been out of business for the past four years, I'm trying to figure out how long ago that was. On the Barney thread, my personal take is that it isn't Barney himself that's evil. It's the producer. I think she's probably the Balseraph of media involved. Mark (US$ 0.02) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 12:33:19 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> The Purple One >P.S. Isn't there some reverend something over in your country who was saying >tinky winky is gay because purple is the gay pride colour? >... wait a minute, it's a conspiracy actually it's becuase he carries a purse and wears a skirt. The purple thing is part of the argument. Perhaps the recent changes in Sesame Street are the result of Nybbas' influence as well, specifically Bert and Ernie no longer living together. This is promoting hate thus rather demonic in origin i think Ben ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1217 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.