From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri May 14 08:02:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28087 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 08:02:17 -0500 Received: (from Unknown UID 39@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id HAA30799 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 07:31:50 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:31:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199905141231.HAA30799@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: Unknown UID 39 set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1222 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, May 14 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1222 In this digest: Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... IN> Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... IN> Re: Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey Re: IN> Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey Re: IN> Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey Re: IN> Re: Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... Re: IN> Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... IN> UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $20/month Re: IN> Kyriotates and Shedim: Remnant Question Re: IN> Ethereal Question (was: A Demon We All Know) IN> Ethereal Question (was: A Demon We All Know) Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $20/month Re: IN> A Demon We All Know Re: IN> Christopher's angels (Day-Dream Scapes?) Re: IN> The Purple One Re: IN> UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $20/month Re: IN> Re: Guardian angels Re: IN> Children and Celestials (fwd) Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... Re: IN> Holy presences (going OT) IN> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:17:11 +0200 IN> Calabim Site ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:03:11 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... Our spies report that on 11:49 AM 5/12/99 -0500, Earl Wajenberg said: >The other two sources are P (for "Priestly") and D (for >"Deuteronomy"). D is found almost exclusively in Deuteronomy, >but P is found all over, I think. I hadn't heard of the A >source. I have heard of R (for "Redactor," editor), used of >little bits of bridge text presumably put in by the editor to >pull the sources together. In Friedman's "Who Wrote the Bible?" >the author theorizes that the Redactor was Jeremiah, or his >faithful sidekick and scribe Baruch. > >Earl > Given that I don't have that much time to read non-technical things for the next couple months, I really only have time to read one text about religion this week. Too many times seeing Star Wars, you know. Including at midnight opening day, then at the Mann Chinese at noon. I digress. Given this limited time, what one book about the process of creation of the Old Testament would you suggest? The text can assume strong familiarity with the Bible According to Protestants...not a child or anything. Would it be the one you mentioned above? I just realized too much of my recent time has been spent watching the models and not enough looking for the wires. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:18:27 -0400 (EDT) From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman) Subject: IN> Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey The latest edition of the Daily Illuminator says that the results of the In Nomine players poll have been tabulated. Any chance of posting the results to the list? After all, I'd like to know what the final breakdown was...and maybe get a jump on the chance to query the wish-list. :) yours, did the historical supplements *really* top the list? that's bizarre, Jason - --- jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (life) werther@hilander.com (play) jayafter12am@hotmail.com (late-night) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:18:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... Sean McCarthy wrote: > Given this limited time, what one book about the process of > creation of the Old Testament would you suggest? I would recommend "Who Wrote the Bible?" by Richard Friedman. Harper, 1997 San Francisco; ISBN 0060630353, available through Amazon.com for $11.20, and very possibly in a nearby public or college library. The book describes the development of the "Dcoumentary Hypothesis," the idea that the Torah/Pentateuch was compiled from four different sources, labeled J, E, P, and D (for "Jahwist," "Elohist," "Priestly," and "Deuteronomist"). The J source is flagged by mostly referring to God as Jahweh/Yahweh/Jehovah; the E source is flagged by referring to Him as Elohim; the P source is much concerned with liturgical matters; the D source is almost entirely coincident with the book of Deuteronomy. Later refinements have introduced additional sources, but that's the original form. The idea is widely accepted but still religiously controversial. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:46:43 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Re: Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey At 11:18 AM -0400 5/13/99, Jason Schneiderman wrote: >The latest edition of the Daily Illuminator says that the results of the In >Nomine players poll have been tabulated. Any chance of posting the results >to the list? After all, I'd like to know what the final breakdown was...and >maybe get a jump on the chance to query the wish-list. :) I second that. . . I'd really like to see what people -did- think of it all. . . >yours, did the historical supplements *really* top the list? that's bizarre, >Jason Very. . . That's why a minor little rant fest is going on now in your Pyramid-based In Nomine newsgroup. . . (Shameless Plug: It's only $15 a year folks, and I need the Essence!) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:16:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey At 11:18 AM -0400 5/13/99, Jason Schneiderman wrote: >The latest edition of the Daily Illuminator says that the results of the In >Nomine players poll have been tabulated. Any chance of posting the results >to the list? After all, I'd like to know what the final breakdown was...and >maybe get a jump on the chance to query the wish-list. :) Well, if people _want_ the full results -- I don't see why not. They're anon. >did the historical supplements *really* top the list? that's bizarre, They really, really did. And yes, I was startled too. This is listed in order of Yes responses. I have a slightly different one based on the fewest No responses, but the basic Top Four is really the only interesting intersection there. The top four are: Name Yes Maybe No No Response Pre-Columbus North America 298 259 53 43 In Nomine Old West 284 255 77 37 Civil War 259 278 70 46 In Nomine South America 256 278 61 49 The full list is: Name Yes Maybe No No Response Pre-Columbus North America 298 259 53 43 In Nomine Old West 284 255 77 37 In Nomine Space 267 222 127 37 In Nomine Swashbucklers 266 227 128 32 Civil War 259 278 70 46 In Nomine South America 256 278 61 49 In Nomine Cyberpunk 233 231 154 35 In Nomine Regency England 202 282 131 38 In Nomine Call of Cthulhu 185 210 230 28 Victorian Era 175 312 127 39 1800s London 170 295 152 36 In Nomine Demonlings 164 327 130 32 1920s-1930s 162 260 199 32 Middle Ages: Middle East 150 346 115 42 In Nomine Little Guys 144 326 138 45 The Birth of Islam 139 370 110 34 Renaissance 134 329 148 42 Before the Fall 134 253 236 30 In Nomine Religion 128 336 153 36 A History of the Marches 121 342 157 33 In Nomine Voodoo 120 431 82 20 IN: Campaigns for Soldiers 115 281 219 38 In Nomine: Shal-Mari 113 375 141 24 IN: Stygia 112 396 118 27 Middle Ages: Europe 111 309 195 38 In Nomine Imperial Rome 103 292 222 36 Biblical Times (Old Testament) 102 229 292 30 Dark Ages: The Rise and Fall of Legion 90 311 214 38 In Nomine Sorcery 88 301 231 33 People to See... (Compilation book) 73 360 200 20 IN: Playing a Wordbound 71 263 286 33 IN: Judgment Day/Alternate Earths 69 218 335 31 IN: The Shared Principalities (Shal-Mari & Stygia) 68 364 183 38 The History/Founding of Hell 66 263 285 39 A History of Angels 61 311 253 28 After the Fall 53 303 256 32 Loss of Innocence 47 290 274 42 In Nomine Hell 44 259 313 37 In Nomine: The Disfavored 42 235 356 20 - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:29:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey On a related note, I felt there were too few grades to give the books, or maybe they were just to sharply formulated. I found it hard to choose what alternative to choose for a given book because the alternatives seemed so far apart. :-/ Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:59:37 -0400 (EDT) From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman) Subject: Re: IN> Re: Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey At 10:46 AM 5/13/99, Shadowstar wrote: > Very. . . That's why a minor little rant fest is going on now in your >Pyramid-based In Nomine newsgroup. . . (Shameless Plug: It's only $15 a >year folks, and I need the Essence!) Already a member; you can see me shaking my head at the actions of my former employers on the Pyramid board. And, you're right: for the price of a single supplement, you can get a year's worth of gaming goodness. Jason - --- jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (life) werther@hilander.com (play) jayafter12am@hotmail.com (late-night) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:28:53 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... In a message dated 5/13/99 7:53:22 AM, sean@dangerzone.org writes: > Somehow I feel insulted. Out of an interest in list harmony, I will not >press that issue. > I apologize. Insult was not my intent. I got overly passionate on the subject. > Now, what do you do when the man you have all lined up to be the father >of >the master race up and does something really pagan and Fate-approaching? >Besides telling him next time to make sure the Lord doesn't speak to him >through messengers with Really Good Hair, you don't seem to have an awful >lot of options. > How do you consider this pagan or fate-approaching? He was told to do something by God, and he did it. Remember that animal sacrifice was central to proper worship of *any* deity, including the LORD, and that human sacrifice is no more than a logical extension thereof. If *that* bothers you, does the human sacrifice central to Christianity, and the ritual cannibalism of the central Christian ritual bother you? Specifically, do you see them as pagan or Fate-approaching? Many Christian scholars see the stayed sacrifice of Isaac as a dry run for the Crucifixion. > This, of course, is why Servitors of Yves get the high pay that they do. > Not to mention the benefits of serving the guy with the ineffable plan. ("I hate him! Really I do! All he does is stand around smiling smugly and looking ineffable!") ;D >Sean > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:01:19 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... Our spies report that on 01:28 PM 5/13/99 EDT, MarkDEddy@aol.com said: > >In a message dated 5/13/99 7:53:22 AM, sean@dangerzone.org writes: > >> Somehow I feel insulted. Out of an interest in list harmony, I will >not >>press that issue. >> >I apologize. Insult was not my intent. I got overly passionate on the subject. > >> Now, what do you do when the man you have all lined up to be the >father >>of >>the master race up and does something really pagan and Fate-approaching? >>Besides telling him next time to make sure the Lord doesn't speak to him >>through messengers with Really Good Hair, you don't seem to have an awful >>lot of options. >> >How do you consider this pagan or fate-approaching? He was told to do >something by God, and he did it. Remember that animal sacrifice was central >to proper worship of *any* deity, including the LORD, and that human >sacrifice is no more than a logical extension thereof. If *that* bothers you, >does the human sacrifice central to Christianity, and the ritual cannibalism >of the central Christian ritual bother you? Specifically, do you see them as >pagan or Fate-approaching? Many Christian scholars see the stayed sacrifice >of Isaac as a dry run for the Crucifixion. Postulated as this... God didn't want it to happen. It was a test of faith, not a sacrifice of an (presumably) unwilling human. The act itself was a major step towards Abraham's Destiny, perhaps. If he did it, you're right, you have to discount a lot later on. So what I'm saying is, what if, in an IN context, he DID do it because he was tricked? And do I think (I am no longer Catholic) that sacrificing God-made-flesh is wrong? Well, keep in mind that while it may have been the Plan for Jesus to die and be reborn, nobody commended the people who did it. So yes, killing him was wrong. He making that sacrifice of himself I think is fine. Anyway, I think a prevalent theory is that Christ-As-Human(kinda)-Sacrifice was the blood that was potent enough that no further blood need be shed. Short answer: Killing non-willing people bad. Killing willing people still more or less bad. Letting them kill you because you know that if they strike you down, your side will benefit greatly...well...ah... That falls under the "If God really knows everything, is He setting people up to do wrong, or does He merely know what the best possible result in a bad place and time will be?" section of theology. I'm not on this list to debate THAT part. My thought is this. What if (we'll stop using this specific example) someone is Destined to be a key figure in the development of the Abrahamic faiths and Hell tricks them into doing something really wrong. Do you implement a historical coverup? Do you overlook that person and try again later? Did Dominic, for example, centuries ago, notice there was something Wrong with the Catholic church? I hope so. But who really tried to fix the problem? Laurence. Laurence goofed it, perhaps, but do you suppose the reason Dominic holds out even now for Catholocism is because it's much too late to start over now? Think of it in playing-IN-historically context. Or perhaps modern day. Yves tells you, his loyal Servitors, to watch this person for they will be an important prophet. Did it come from God to Yves to you? Or was God involved? You can't see anything celestial going on or hear any disturbance when this person talks to God and seems to be getting replies. An Archangel might be able to do it. Or a Demon Prince. God could. Lucifer almost certainly could. What do you do when the Fate-o-meter starts flying off the scale because this person is going to do something bad? Oh well. Sunburn is overwhelming me. Still, I'm not saying what the holy books say happened is wrong. I'm supposing, alternate world if you will, Abraham messes up/is tricked and the PCs get stuck as part of the effort to patch the leaking boat... Sean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:13:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hey, Elizabeth: About that IN Survey At 6:29 PM +0200 5/13/99, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >On a related note, I felt there were too few grades to give the books, or >maybe they were just to sharply formulated. I found it hard to choose what >alternative to choose for a given book because the alternatives seemed so >far apart. :-/ I was trying to come up with something that actually had meaningful data. I could have gone with five grades, but can you imagine trying to figure out which were the positives, and which the negatives? I'd have wound up clumping Yes and Maybe-Yes together, and Maybe-No and No. I don't do statistics all that well. I need to keep 'em simple. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:46:09 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... At 12:01 PM -0700 5/13/99, Sean McCarthy wrote: >Our spies report that on 01:28 PM 5/13/99 EDT, MarkDEddy@aol.com said: > > > Postulated as this... God didn't want it to happen. It was a test of >faith, not a sacrifice of an (presumably) unwilling human. The act itself >was a major step towards Abraham's Destiny, perhaps. > > If he did it, you're right, you have to discount a lot later >on. So what I'm saying is, what if, in an IN context, he DID do it >because he was tricked? Hm. Hmmmmmmmm.... We're making one important assumption here. We're assuming God did all the stuff to Abraham, in IN terms. What if he didn't. What if a particularly loathsome Kobalite Balseraph kept appearing to Abraham and making these demands in the name of Faith -- channeling Abraham towards the Fate of killing his own son in the name of intolerant, violent, sacrificing religion, but the Balseraph was beaten and an Angel -- a Mercurian, perhaps, took the place of "God" at the end, staying Abraham's hand... and leading Abraham towards his Destiny, turning the machinations of Dark Humor and Fate towards Destiny in the end? It could happen. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 99 12:41:44 EST From: GoTheDistance@mailcity.com Subject: IN> UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $20/month IMAGINE! UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $20/month flat rate! We're in a pre launch! It was bound to happen... there is a new telephone company offering UNLIMITED US Domestic Long Distance Calling for a flat rate of $20 per month... no computer required... phone to phone... "pin drop" quality. FREE Demo and rep information available: Please call this Toll Free # 800-400-8532 Or Hit Reply and leave us your : Name & e-mail address, very Important , NO information will be sent without your e-mail Address. We use an automated system that responds only to your e-mail address. (Please use the 800 number or the Reply Button, but not both) (you will receive your requested information within 24-72 hours) Thank you! Imagine being able to make UNLIMITED Long Distance calls for only $20. a month? :::::::::::::»§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§«::::::::::::: Making Dreams Come True! :::::::::::::»§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§«::::::::::::: This "Hot", new, technology will also allow you to (realistically) make $2-5,000 in less than 30 days part-time! _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ If you have received this message in error, please email U-stop-it@bigfoot.com with the word remove in the subject. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:25:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates and Shedim: Remnant Question From: Warsinger > On Tue, 11 May 1999, EDG wrote: > > However, these would not be Super-soldiers; they'd still be detectable as > > celestial-infested vessels to those who can detect that sort of thing. > > > Be quite difficult to detect as all the usual problems of detecting a > Celestial in a vessel apply - and they are immune to Perception resonances > as well. Isn't the reason a Remnant is immune to Perception Resonances because they lack any Celestial Forces to percieve? If this is the case, it might not hold for a Remnant/Host Composite because of the Host's Celestial Forces. From: Elizabeth McCoy > Shedim are _much_ easier to deal with if you simply don't let them > get that "destroy last Celestial Force and possess on the same turn." > If you _do_ want to let them do that, on your head be it, and you > get to figure out your own rules. O;> Well, this is all academic so my head's not in danger. I guess in order to decide what happens to Shedim and Kyriotate Quasi-Remnants one would have to know the nature of their symbiotic interface with a host. Is it the Will contained in the Celestial Forces which displaces a host's mind into a dreamscape during a Kyriotate possession? If so, then the host's consciousness could snap back to his body once the Kyriotate's C-Forces are gone. And what is the relationship between the Forces of the host and Kyriotate/Shedim? Normal Remants are confused and erratic because of their lack of Celestial Forces. Are the host and Remnant's Forces mingled enough that the C-Forces of the host can fit into the gap in the Remnant's Force Pattern? If this is the case, then that means the Remnant wouldn't really be a Remnant but rather some sort Spiritual Symbiote. With no Will of its own the Remnant would become nothing more but an extension of the host, who would have full access to the skills, songs, and attunements locked in the Remnant's Forces. If the C-Forces of the Host can't fit in the gap, then all that stuff would be unaccessible. So the question is, how does Kyriotate/Shedim possession work? How do the forces of host and Celestial interact? Canon, Non-canon, and anti-canon answers are all welcome. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:53:01 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal Question (was: A Demon We All Know) >What particular evil does "B'Harni" promulgate, other than >being pitched at a demographic that is pre-ironic and >pre-sarcastic? He could just as readily be written up as >a Mercurian of Christopher. > >Earl The frightening truth, brothers and sisters, is that Barney is not merely a joyful character on a children's show, but with every dream of Barney which comes into existance the likelihood that there are dream element Barneys increases. God Forbid that an Ethereal Barney manages to come into being. Which reminds me, does the creation of ethereal beings require belief that the ethereals are *real*? For instance the little people are believed to be real in certain parts of the globe, but Batman is widely known to be a fictional character. Yet, Batman is a fictional character who have been granted substantial life and breath, depth and autonomy. Might there not be a Batman out there in the Marches, despite the knowledge that Batman is merely a fiction character? - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Plots and Plans. What everyone should have to cook with." - Elizabeth McCoy (personal interview 3/23/99) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:53:09 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Ethereal Question (was: A Demon We All Know) >What particular evil does "B'Harni" promulgate, other than >being pitched at a demographic that is pre-ironic and >pre-sarcastic? He could just as readily be written up as >a Mercurian of Christopher. > >Earl The frightening truth, brothers and sisters, is that Barney is not merely a joyful character on a children's show, but with every dream of Barney which comes into existance the likelihood that there are dream element Barneys increases. God Forbid that an Ethereal Barney manages to come into being. Which reminds me, does the creation of ethereal beings require belief that the ethereals are *real*? For instance the little people are believed to be real in certain parts of the globe, but Batman is widely known to be a fictional character. Yet, Batman is a fictional character who have been granted substantial life and breath, depth and autonomy. Might there not be a Batman out there in the Marches, despite the knowledge that Batman is merely a fiction character? - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Plots and Plans. What everyone should have to cook with." - Elizabeth McCoy (personal interview 3/23/99) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:58:12 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know > >The Teletubbies (tm) are Mercurians of Christopher. Woah, woah, woah . . . The Teletubbies are entities which are televisions, essentially living TV sets which convey the message of (a) the TV is here to take care of you Also, you ever notice those things that pop out of the ground and watch and tell them what to do? (b) Big Brother is watching you. Mercurians of Christopher? Try Impudites of the Media serving the Game. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Plots and Plans. What everyone should have to cook with." - Elizabeth McCoy (personal interview 3/23/99) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:58:34 -0400 From: Casey Hartman Subject: Re: IN> UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $20/month Casey Hartman wahooka6@epix.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:03:56 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> A Demon We All Know >-----Original Message----- >From: Anders Gabrielsson > > > >> B'Harni is a *clear* Impudite of the Media, conditioning patterns of > >> behavior that, while moderatly innocuous on the surface, bear fruit > >> as the years pass. > > > >Like what? Hugging random strangers on the street? I can see how that > >might be annoying, but hardly threatening the fabric of society. :) > > > >Anders Gabrielsson > >Like conditioning children to trust and heed the image. The image is your >friend. He cares about you. Don't you care about him? He just wants you >to be >happy. But trust is something that children *need* to be healthy individuals. The image is just an image, true. Just like Superman or The Thunder Cats. They're heros, images to look up to, to admire and to be inspired by. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "No hablo Frenchie." - Jess Stanley as Collin, spoken to a french person while in France _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:33:47 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Christopher's angels (Day-Dream Scapes?) >I don't have the Christopher write-up; is it possible for his >servitors (cherubim in particular, I suppose) to show up as >a child's "imaginary playmate"? If mechanics don't already >exist, Then who's going to fix our cars?! Oh, I kill me! it seems to me Christopher and Blandine could do something >interesting together regarding these. A young child, arguably, >might have a more permeable boundary between waking and dreaming >states, so that a Christopheric cherub could hang out in the >kid's waking-dreamscape as "imaginary playmate," offering >guidance. Oooh . . . cool. Waking dreamscapes. Hey, what about Day-dream scapes? >(I am thinking, actually, of Hobbes, from "Calvin and Hobbes." >Ever notice how the imaginary member of that team seemed to have >more common sense and decency than the corporeal member?) > >Earl *very* cool - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com There are souls which fall from heaven like flowers, but ere they bloom are crushed under the foul tread of some brutal hoof. -- Richter _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:43:09 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Purple One >>What particular evil does "B'Harni" promulgate, other than >>being pitched at a demographic that is pre-ironic and >>pre-sarcastic? He could just as readily be written up as >>a Mercurian of Christopher. >> >>Earl > >You sick, sick boy. The purple one represents the very pinnacle of evil. By >putting into impressionable young children's minds a sickeningly twee image >of the world, he sets them up for a fall into despair, suicide, or >murderous rampage. And more souls flow to his true master, Kronos (Nybbas? >Yeah right!) Actually, since its only really ages six or younger who would really be into the show, its wholly appropriate for them to jot off to a mytical land where they can feel happy and free. For the age group, its appropriate. Now, if you have some adults who are a bit too into the show, that could be a problem. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Plots and Plans. What everyone should have to cook with." - Elizabeth McCoy (personal interview 3/23/99) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:39:49 -0400 From: Casey Hartman Subject: Re: IN> UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $20/month Excuse that. A friend of mine got into my email account earlier today. Casey Hartman The End is Nigh, play on Armageddon. telnet://minerva.erisian.net Casey Hartman wrote: > > Casey Hartman wahooka6@epix.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:45:59 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Guardian angels >Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > > >I don't have the Christopher write-up; is it possible for his > >servitors (cherubim in particular, I suppose) to show up as > >a child's "imaginary playmate"? If mechanics don't already > >exist, it seems to me Christopher and Blandine could do something > >interesting together regarding these. A young child, arguably, > >might have a more permeable boundary between waking and dreaming > >states, so that a Christopheric cherub could hang out in the > >kid's waking-dreamscape as "imaginary playmate," offering guidance. > >IMC, the way I handled this was to elminate the time limit on >how long an angel or demon could remain in celestial form while >on Earth, and making it harder for ordinary people to see the >celestial forms of the spirits. > >So it was very possible for someone to have a guardian (or tempter) >spirit that follwed them around 24x7. >-- >Neel Krishnaswami >neelk@cswv.com After reading The Screwtape Letters, I've felt like that almost the way is should be for MOST angels and demons. Maybe its time to write an add-on or alternate In Nomine version. OTOH, perhaps its relievers and imps/gremlins who can remain on earth for extended periods of time in Celestial form. Because they are only a small number of forces bundled together the Symphony is less able to push them out of Corporeal Existance or force them to Endure Corporeal Existance. Thus the price to pay for becoming fully fledged would be the loss of enduring Celestial form. Of course, the gain is a Resonance, more forces, more Power overall. Hrm . . . - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Plots and Plans. What everyone should have to cook with." - Elizabeth McCoy (personal interview 3/23/99) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:05:28 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Children and Celestials (fwd) > > *Cough* Are you a parent? I haven't been one for long, but > > my impression is that your average toddler can give your > > average cat a very good run for its money in a contest of wills. > > These are the same children so easily induced to lie at child abuse >trials? :) Children can be -stubborn-, but they can also be manipulated >pretty easily. There *is* difference between having solid determination and having a solid direction for the determination to go in. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Plots and Plans. What everyone should have to cook with." - Elizabeth McCoy (personal interview 3/23/99) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:25:27 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... >At 02:31 PM 5/11/99 -0700, you wrote: > > If we are all Noachides... I may be about to make a major mistake >here, >>but I thought the Covenant was pre-flood in origin. If Noah wasn't a Jew, >>where did that racial line begin? > >The Covenant (as in the Ark of the Covenant) was, IIRC, made in King >David's time, which vastly postdates the Flood. Noah was long since dead >when it was created. > >Of course, I could be wrong. :) > >I believe, however, that Abraham is generally called the first Jew. This >has nothing to do with the Covenant, however. :) > >-EDG > I wish I knew this as fact. Fact, ahh . . . what a comforting word. Of course, show someone the Devil and she might just say "You're not Satan, you're just a psychopathic individual with biophyisical malfunction." I was just talking to my brother about religion. He doesn't place much stock in it. Why? Because its "folklore". He then went to talk about the Eastern Religions as being merely philsophies. -sigh- The Taoists and Buddhists all have their Demons, magic and afterlife, too. He went on to talk about evidence and how Christianity didn't really have much. He rejected my arguements that (a) it's sprung a world-wide religion (not so much in the East, of course) and that (b) many people *have* felt moved by the Holy Spirit. So, in conclusion, people will only believe what they want to believe. I find the human mind so pathetically maladapt at useful change. Even in the face of a Holy Presence, those who are not willing to believe will see nothing. - -Perry, Kyriotate of Creation serving Flowers and sometines Tanniael, Archangel of Tea perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Plots and Plans. What everyone should have to cook with." - Elizabeth McCoy (personal interview 3/23/99) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:31:38 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Interesting spam? Nah... >> Postulated as this... God didn't want it to happen. It was a test of >>faith, not a sacrifice of an (presumably) unwilling human. The act itself >>was a major step towards Abraham's Destiny, perhaps. >> >> If he did it, you're right, you have to discount a lot later >>on. So what I'm saying is, what if, in an IN context, he DID do it >>because he was tricked? > >Hm. > >Hmmmmmmmm.... > >We're making one important assumption here. > >We're assuming God did all the stuff to Abraham, in IN terms. What >if he didn't. What if a particularly loathsome Kobalite Balseraph >kept appearing to Abraham and making these demands in the name of >Faith -- channeling Abraham towards the Fate of killing his own son >in the name of intolerant, violent, sacrificing religion, but the >Balseraph was beaten and an Angel -- a Mercurian, perhaps, took the >place of "God" at the end, staying Abraham's hand... and leading >Abraham towards his Destiny, turning the machinations of Dark Humor >and Fate towards Destiny in the end? > >It could happen. > > >-- >Eric Alfred Burns | > | now with web site content! > Yeah, and I could possess your body and force you to apologize for what you did last week. :) It could happen. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "...Love is kind...love never fails...." 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:42:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Holy presences (going OT) On Thu, 13 May 1999, Perry Lloyd wrote: > He went on to talk about evidence and how Christianity didn't really have > much. He rejected my arguements that (a) it's sprung a world-wide religion > (not so much in the East, of course) and that (b) many people *have* felt > moved by the Holy Spirit. Well, a) is quite problematic, IMO, since there are several contradictory, world-wide religions. Feeling moved by the Holy Spirit also doesn't get close to being evidence for Christianity, God, or even the Holy Spirit itself - people have felt moved by the spirit of Napoleon Bonaparte, which hardly makes a (hypthetical, I hope) religion based around him true. > So, in conclusion, people will only believe what they want to believe. I > find the human mind so pathetically maladapt at useful change. Even in the > face of a Holy Presence, those who are not willing to believe will see > nothing. Well, how do you define "useful change"? Those of us who don't believe in holy presences will say that people who are willing to believe will see something even if there is nothing there. *shrugs* Trying to bring this back on the topic of this list: what kind of reactions would percieving the celestial forms of different Choirs inspire in humans? Kyriotates would definitely be scary, as would Seraphim, Ofanim, Malakim and quite possibly Cherubim. The only ones that look "nice" are Mercurians - Elohim look a bit like Greys, I suppose... could be scary or not, depending on if you believe you've been abducted or not. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:21:50 -0500 From: "P. de Villiers" Subject: IN> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:17:11 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE9E14.75320720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE9E14.75320720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE9E14.75320720-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 05:31:06 PDT From: "Hydrax 59" Subject: IN> Calabim Site This is just writing in a second attempt to get submissions for my Calabim Website. Please send me Stuff. Lots of Stuff. Any Calabim Stuff. Anything vaugely related to Calabim. Links to the calabim on your page (I'm trying to compile a list). That Calabim you're too ashamed/sickened/afraid to put on your own site or that you could never see a use for before. I'm trying to get a paranoid monologue(before, during, and after sayings of the enemy?) section going for those times when you are struck by a brilliant flash of paranoid delusions. Send Me STUFF Hydrax ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1222 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.