From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 19 22:43:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03393 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 22:43:34 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id WAA03928 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 22:43:32 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:43:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199905200343.WAA03928@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1231 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 19 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1231 In this digest: IN> Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments IN> [Beth screams] Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments Re: IN> [Beth screams] Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments Re: IN> Loose Canons Re: IN> [Beth screams] Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments Re: IN> Loose Canons Re: IN> [Beth screams] Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments Re: IN> Holy Presences - Imperatives Re: IN> Origins, Plural Re: IN> Remnant Experience? Re: IN> Origins, Plural Re: IN> [Beth screams] Sneak Previews Re: IN> Origins, Plural Re: IN> Origins, Plural Re: IN> Origins, Plural Re: IN> Origins, Plural Re: IN> Origins, Plural Re: IN> [Beth screams] Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments Re: IN> [Beth screams] Sneak Previews Re: IN> Origins, Plural Re: IN> [Beth screams] Sneak Previews Re: IN> Contrast and Brightness IN> "Brightness Settings," et al IN> The Demon of Atheism IN> Remnant Experience? IN> The Demon of Atheism IN> Theme IN> Azariel the Habbalakite Re: IN> Theme ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:15:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments We've got them all assigned. >>David, AA of Stone - R. Sean Borgstron >>Laurence, AA of the Sword - David Edelstein >>Michael, AA of War - Genevieve Cogman >>Dominic, AA of Judgment - Elizabeth McCoy The deadline I've been given, for all these to be in, is June 28. (I've already got a first draft of Dominic, but I cheated and had him over half written several months ago... This does mean that we can share 'Superior Opinions'...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:19:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [Beth screams] Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments Oh, well, I suppose it would have been public knowledge anyway. This is what I get for making my 'all the authors' aliases too similar to my 'list' alias. Anyway, let's hear a big round of applause... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:20:32 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> [Beth screams] Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments On Wed, May 19, 1999 at 01:19:10PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Oh, well, I suppose it would have been public knowledge anyway. > Probably, but it still confuses me. I was under the impression that those Superiors already had writeups. (Congrats to the authors-elect, in any case.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "It is an impressive thing to hear a helpless woman damned in every item of her life, every corner of her soul. For good reason, no one accused by the Temple has ever been found innocent." Ser Visal's Tale, by Stephen Donaldson. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:31:33 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Loose Canons At 18:17 -0400 5/17/99, MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >It's just that I found the original disturbance rules annoying to have to >figure out the math on, so I would just wing it. Despite being a rules junky, I have the same problem with them. I take a middle ground, and have the PCs make rolls, but I don't bother with the math. Instead, I just make a rough assessment of the noise level, matched against the PC's rolls, and decide what, if anything, they hear. Incidentally, this is one of the rules that got totally re-worked in GURPS In Nomine. We kept the basic Perception+ roll, but the distance simply adds double the standard GURPS range penalty to the target number. I hope it's sufficiently simple to be useful. It changes the behavior of disturbance somewhat, since the old rule was a square-law curve, and the new one is an exponential. For typical medium distances, the results are fairly similar, but large disturbances have more range than before. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:35:47 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [Beth screams] Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments At 6:20 PM +0100 5/19/99, Kevin Walsh wrote: >On Wed, May 19, 1999 at 01:19:10PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Oh, well, I suppose it would have been public knowledge anyway. >> >Probably, but it still confuses me. I was under the impression that those >Superiors already had writeups. Alain already spilled the beans in her chat, so I guess it's okay for me to do it here. They're getting _bigger_ writeups. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:33:23 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Loose Canons At 18:06 -0400 5/17/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>>>Eighth change: The contrast and brightness knobs are both turned all the >>>>way up. >>> >>>Huh? >>> >>This is actually from terminology Beth (McCoy) uses. > >I think I snarfed it from someone else... Don't recall where, anymore, >though. It might have been me, or one of the other engineer-types on the list, like Em or Jo. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:41:00 -0700 From: Steve Feldon Subject: Re: IN> [Beth screams] Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments So we're expanding the expansions? Is the expansion more historical or mechanics related? :) steve Sent from Novell GroupWise via the Microsoft Exchange Connector for Groupwise. Please report any problems with this message to the sender. Web 4, baby! >>> Elizabeth McCoy 05/19/99 10:35AM >>> At 6:20 PM +0100 5/19/99, Kevin Walsh wrote: >On Wed, May 19, 1999 at 01:19:10PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Oh, well, I suppose it would have been public knowledge anyway. >> >Probably, but it still confuses me. I was under the impression that those >Superiors already had writeups. Alain already spilled the beans in her chat, so I guess it's okay for me to do it here. They're getting _bigger_ writeups. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:53:40 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Holy Presences - Imperatives At 5:03 -0400 5/18/99, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >IN tie-in: "making" someone move towards their Fate or Destiny isn't >possible - the job of Angels and Demons is to make the choices leading >away from the desired end point seem less desirable. The one exception >might be Shedim, who can actually force your body to act and make you >think it's your own idea, and possibly Lilim, but I'm not sure about them. This may be close to being canon, in some form. I think it's at least been hinted at. In my game, it's definitely true, but not necessarily very useful. Not achieving Fate or Destiny due to overt tampering pushing the other way would merely send a human around for another try, pretty much for certain. And pushing too hard may cause the Symphony to recoil against the intervention (and the intervener...). Elizabeth's Free Lilim character in our campaign got pushed in the angelic direction because an over-enthusiastic (and overconfident) Habbalite of Fate directly pushed a human kid too hard, with said Lilim's (Geased) assistance. The kid had a pretty rough time of it (though she eventually got rescued when the Lilim broke the "Free Lilim code" of not ratting on previous employers); she could have actually died in the way she was Fated to, but she'd simply have re-incarnated (which the Lilim doesn't know...). The bottom line is that human choice is inviolate in my game. The *human* must choose, even among a set of bad alternatives. (And motive counts!) Direct compulsion removes choice -- it doesn't count. But how the human reacts after the compulsion ends *does* count. So Shedite possession doesn't directly move a human to Fate, but if the human decides afterwards that since he's *been* doing bad things, he might as well continue, well, *that's* a quick trip to Hell. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:00:34 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Origins, Plural Walter Milliken wrote: "A minor objection to c) and a possible plot notion: the assumption that if you go back far enough, that all living humans are descended from everyone of that period is only approximately true. Yes, it's statistically likely, but if the sample size is large enough, you get some pretty improbable outliers. And that notion also assumes interbreeding is random, and not biased by something that would cause a segmentation in the sample." True. Actually, I was making the opposite unstated assumption, that God (or Yves as His agent or someone) would nudge the interactions to *ensure* that Adamite blood got into every hominid bloodline as soon as possible. "So you could have a few people who were *not* descended from Adam. What if there's some way to tell (Vapulan DNA-analysis?), and someone is going around collecting them. Or killing them...? Lilith would logically have an interest, though I'm not sure what she'd do with it. It would *have* to be a Vapulan or Jeanite DNA analysis, if Adam was not physically different from earlier hominids. I was thinking more in terms of a spiritual birthright (and/or curse) than in terms of nucleotide sequences. Vapula's hot new karmic differentiator would pick that up right away, of course... Note also that option c) implies interesting things about the Children of the Grigori -- if all of them didn't get killed off, then a *lot* of living humans might have Grigori ancestry.... *Oh* yes. Cf. "Many Waters," by Madeline L'Engle, in which we learn that one of Noah's daughters-in-law had celestial ancestry. > Essay question: What relationship do pre-Adamit human/hominid > races have to Ethereals? "I would think "roughly similar to the post-Adamite humans", unless there was something about Eden and/or the Fall that triggered worship of the ethereals (as opposed to just making up stories about them, or dreaming them)." I was thinking of possibilities like, "Dreamed up Ethereals that Adamites never would," or "Routinely became permanent dreamshades when they died, and so provided a lot of Ethereal population," or even, more mundanely, "Provided the concept of not-quite-human people to Adamites, thus stimulating Adamites to dream up many classes of Ethereals, such as fays." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:06:19 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Remnant Experience? At 9:50 -0400 5/18/99, EDG wrote: >(Keep in mind, though, that although demons emerge at 7 Forces, angels >fledge at 9! An "average" angelic Remnant, therefore - 3/3/0 - still needs >two more Forces to actually be an angel. Adding a Force this way creates a >Reliever with some scattered memories of being an Angel once. IIRC.) A couple of points: The "average" angelic Remnant is more likely to be 1/1/0 than 3/3/0, due to the way the Force-loss mechanics work. PC Remnants get 6 Forces, but they wouldn't be typical Remnants -- that would be a *very* lucky Remnant, or maybe someone who started with only 1 Celestial Force before being Remnantized. Also, I'd argue that the Remnant-entity doesn't "remember" its former Choir/Band, since the original individual is actually *dead*. Therefore, you'd be more likely to get some kind of Reliever by adding a Force. It *might* have some pre-disposition to fledge to it's former Choir/Band, though, due to memetic influences carred in the remaining ethereal Forces. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:07:38 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Origins, Plural On Wed, 19 May 1999, Walter Milliken wrote: > A minor objection to c) and a possible plot notion: the assumption that if > you go back far enough, that all living humans are descended from everyone > of that period is only approximately true. It's quite true. Studies on Y chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA basically show that it's pretty damn likely that the entirety of the human race is descended through a male lineage from a single man, and through a female lineage from a single woman. The numbers are of the order of tens of thousands of years ago, I think, and aren't all that accurate. What is reasonably clear, however, is that the man and woman in question never met - the woman probably lived something like three times as many generations ago as the man. Also, everyone alive is descended from almost everyone who was alive then *anyway*. Source - "In the Blood", by Steve Jones. I can look up the details if anyone cares. > that notion also assumes interbreeding is random, and not biased by > something that would cause a segmentation in the sample. Not exactly. All this is based on the principle that every man gets his Y chromosome from his father, and the probability of a man having no sons is not tiny. Therefore, Y chromosome lineages often die out, hence there aren't very many, in fact one. Similarly for mitochondrial DNA, inherited only from your mother. You only really have to assume the population never got badly segmented (like different continents), and a few quick DNA samples indicate this is not the case... For instance there is precisely one family remaining that carries William the Conqueror's Y chromosome. They are therefore his rightful heirs by male primogeniture. They aren't the Royal Family, before you guess. > So you could have a few people who were *not* descended from Adam. Possible. Depends first whether his male line has survived, and second whether any descendants have. If the former, then everyone is descended from him. If not, then any proportion you care to name of the world's population can be his descendents. Adjust to fit your campaign :-) Steve. - ------ Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:19:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [Beth screams] Sneak Previews At 10:41 AM -0700 5/19/99, Steve Feldon wrote: >So we're expanding the expansions? Is the expansion more historical or >mechanics related? :) All of the above, really. More about the Superior, more about _being a Servitor_. No new Servitor Attunements for those who've already been expanded. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:38:37 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Origins, Plural At 14:07 -0400 5/19/99, Steve Jessop wrote: >On Wed, 19 May 1999, Walter Milliken wrote: > >> A minor objection to c) and a possible plot notion: the assumption that if >> you go back far enough, that all living humans are descended from everyone >> of that period is only approximately true. > >It's quite true. Studies on Y chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA basically >show that it's pretty damn likely that the entirety of the human race is >descended through a male lineage from a single man, and through a female >lineage from a single woman. The numbers are of the order of tens of >thousands of years ago, I think, and aren't all that accurate. I can easily believe that. What I was saying was something different -- that it's not necessarily true that all living humans are descended from all the extant humans living at some *other* time later than that. I.e., if we pick some individual, say, 10,000 years ago (with the proviso that they have *some* living descendents in modern times -- if all their kids got killed before reproductive age, or the individual never reproduced at all, the question is clearly moot), do *all* living humans have some ancestry from that person. That was the core of option c) that was presented: some non-Adamite population, mixed in with Adam and his descendents. Do all modern humans then have Adamite ancestry. I claim that they don't, necessarily. However, the further back in time you go, and the smaller the human population for that period, the more likely it is that all living humans have any specific ancestor from that period in common. If you want to through really weird twist into that, consider the possibility that Lilith has *human* children somewhere.... >> So you could have a few people who were *not* descended from Adam. > >Possible. Depends first whether his male line has survived, and second >whether any descendants have. If the former, then everyone is descended >from him. I don't see why this should be true, *iff* he's not the only male human from that period. Remember, we're not talking about the case where Adam is the first human male, we're talking about the canon IN case, where humans predate the Eden experiment. (Though I suppose those humans wouldn't necessarily have to be modern Homo sapiens.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:45:03 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Origins, Plural At 15:00 -0400 5/19/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > "So you could have a few people who were *not* descended from Adam. >What if there's some way to tell (Vapulan DNA-analysis?), and someone is >going around collecting them. Or killing them...? > >Lilith would logically have an interest, though I'm not sure what she'd >do with it. It would *have* to be a Vapulan or Jeanite DNA analysis, if >Adam was not physically different from earlier hominids. I was thinking >more in terms of a spiritual birthright (and/or curse) than in terms of >nucleotide sequences. Vapula's hot new karmic differentiator would pick >that up right away, of course... Yep. I tend to think in scientific terms, but you could also come up with all sorts of interesting metaphysical variations that celestials might pick up on. This presumes that Adam was actually substantially different from the general run of humankind at the time. (Which would kind of make the Eden experiment dubious, but then, I shouldn't get started on God's notion of experimental technique....) >> Essay question: What relationship do pre-Adamit human/hominid >> races have to Ethereals? > > "I would think "roughly similar to the post-Adamite humans", unless >there was something about Eden and/or the Fall that triggered worship of >the ethereals (as opposed to just making up stories about them, or >dreaming them)." > >I was thinking of possibilities like, "Dreamed up Ethereals that >Adamites never would," or "Routinely became permanent dreamshades when >they died, and so provided a lot of Ethereal population," or even, more >mundanely, "Provided the concept of not-quite-human people to Adamites, >thus stimulating Adamites to dream up many classes of Ethereals, such as >fays." I guess I just don't see the Eden experiment as a dividing point in *human* history. I suppose part of that is a deliberate attempt on my part to keep thinking of human history as primarily for and about humans, for the purposes of canon writing. If Eden had a profound effect on human history in some fashion, then that's more sloppy technique on God's part, if He's so keen on leaving the little monkeys to evolve on their own.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:47:52 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Origins, Plural Walter Milliken wrote: "I guess I just don't see the Eden experiment as a dividing point in *human* history. I suppose part of that is a deliberate attempt on my part to keep thinking of human history as primarily for and about humans, for the purposes of canon writing. If Eden had a profound effect on human history in some fashion, then that's more sloppy technique on God's part, if He's so keen on leaving the little monkeys to evolve on their own...." This would then be one of those places where IN canon is at loggerheads with its own source material. (Just pointing that out, not criticizing, though it's not how I'd run MY campaign.) After all, the point of the Eden story in the Bible is to explain why humans are mortal and born into a world of troubles. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:10:15 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Origins, Plural At 15:47 -0400 5/19/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >This would then be one of those places where IN canon is at loggerheads >with its own source material. (Just pointing that out, not criticizing, >though it's not how I'd run MY campaign.) After all, the point of the >Eden story in the Bible is to explain why humans are mortal and born >into a world of troubles. Quite true. But assuming the Eden experiment was performed, the "source material" was simply the human view of what happened in IN canon. In general, it's my assumption that IN canon views the "source material" as "badly reported Truth and sometimes outright fabrication." Hence there need only be kernels of Truth in the Bible, or other theological and mythological sources. The Bible simply got a few more things right than a lot of theological texts. This is something to keep in mind, since some people seem to see IN as about Christian theology, rather than something parallel -- and sometimes skew -- to it. Something where the cause and effect relationships between IN history and human theology are reversed *within the game world*. Since I tend to view Christian theology as just another human mythos, maybe it's easier for me to see it this way. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:23:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Origins, Plural Walter Milliken wrote: > In general, it's my assumption that IN canon views the "source > material" as "badly reported Truth and sometimes outright > fabrication." Right, to each their own and all that, but I'll remark that my own artistic intuition leans the other way on this one. I've seen IN described as "the Sunday school teachers were right," and I think that is actually the "punchiest" way to play it. Similarly, X-Files-style games exploit UFOlogy and conspiracy theories that some people really believe. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:12:42 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> [Beth screams] Michael/David/Dominic/Laurence assignments In a message dated 5/19/99 12:31:17 PM Central Daylight Time, emccoy@nh.ultranet.com writes: << Alain already spilled the beans in her chat, so I guess it's okay for me to do it here. They're getting _bigger_ writeups. >> Mikey, Davey, Dommie, and Larry are getting bigbig writeups? Cool. But. What about the others? I for one have been w-a-i-t-i-n-g to see Eli and Novalis expanded write-ups. Not to mention Nybbas, Vapula, and Andre. Will they be getting bigbig write-ups, too? Or just the regular ones? Rev. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> [Beth screams] Sneak Previews On Wed, 19 May 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 10:41 AM -0700 5/19/99, Steve Feldon wrote: > >So we're expanding the expansions? Is the expansion more historical or > >mechanics related? :) > > All of the above, really. More about the Superior, more about _being > a Servitor_. No new Servitor Attunements for those who've already > been expanded. If I may ask... which supplement is all of this destined for? Will this supplement make obselete (in utility, if not in actual canon information) the superior writeups from the Revelations cycle? - -Rob - -= Rob Knop =-= rknop@ncal.verio.com =-= http://www.ncal.verio.com/~rknop =- Playwrights, Producers, Actors, and Anybody Interested in Drama: Visit the Dramatic Exchange at http://www.dramex.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:11:47 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Origins, Plural At 16:23 -0400 5/19/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Walter Milliken wrote: > >> In general, it's my assumption that IN canon views the "source >> material" as "badly reported Truth and sometimes outright >> fabrication." > >Right, to each their own and all that, but I'll remark that my >own artistic intuition leans the other way on this one. I've >seen IN described as "the Sunday school teachers were right," >and I think that is actually the "punchiest" way to play it. Hmmm... I believe canon leans away from this model, partly due to the very irreverent INS/MV view of Christianity out of which IN evolved. I think any Sunday school teacher would be rather shocked by the INS/MV "reality", and I doubt any of them would teach Christianity to kids based on that world. Or at least, I *hope* they wouldn't.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:12:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [Beth screams] Sneak Previews At 1:33 PM -0700 5/19/99, Robert Knop wrote: >On Wed, 19 May 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> At 10:41 AM -0700 5/19/99, Steve Feldon wrote: >> >So we're expanding the expansions? Is the expansion more historical or >> >mechanics related? :) >> >> All of the above, really. More about the Superior, more about _being >> a Servitor_. No new Servitor Attunements for those who've already >> been expanded. > >If I may ask... which supplement is all of this destined for? As I said earlier, Alain spilled beans -- Superior books. (Which were, BTW, one of the top contenders in write-in votes, in the survey. One reason they weren't in the survey itself is because we were already hashing out many many little details about what we wanted.) >Will this supplement make obselete (in utility, if not in actual canon >information) the superior writeups from the Revelations cycle? That's my intent. (Night Music and The Marches are already edging into obscelescence , with the coming of the Corporeal Player's Guide.) All errata from the expanded writeups will also be fixed, of course. ("And whole new errata introduced!" Nonononono... Somebody shut that demon up.) At 4:12 PM -0400 5/19/99, BillionSix@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 5/19/99 12:31:17 PM Central Daylight Time, >emccoy@nh.ultranet.com writes: > ><< Alain already spilled the beans in her chat, so I guess it's okay for > me to do it here. They're getting _bigger_ writeups. > >> > >Mikey, Davey, Dommie, and Larry are getting bigbig writeups? Yup! >Cool. But. What about the others? Aw, c'mon, do you _really_ think we'd only write up those four and let the others languish? Really? O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:27:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Re: IN> Contrast and Brightness And Sharpness controls how clear or obscure the picture is to the PC's. Turned up real high, the PC's know a lot of the Truth(tm) about the campaign setting and background. Turned down real low and the PC's don't have a clue about what's going on. Mid-level is a relatively defined picture with areas of Doubt and Uncertainty(tm). Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:26:11 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> "Brightness Settings," et al >>>I feel very goofy about what is essentially a _running joke_ making it into a book. Even if people who have come on since most of us have left see it as some sort of an official term, a section devoted to it is just... bizarre. But whatever, ya know.<<< Well, in fairness to you, me, and everyone else who's made these terms part of the In Nomine vocabulary, the basic premise -- that campaigns vary in how "dark" or "bright" they are -- is hardly original. Nor is the idea of "contrast" -- the degree to which you can tell the good guys from the bad guys. Heck, I'm as much influenced by the "campaign checklist" from Champions, 4th Edition, as I am by your running joke. These ARE decisions that are very pertinent to an In Nomine campaign, and the sort of thing you want to give to prospective In Nomine GMs to think about. If you really want me to change the names, I can leave out the word "settings," but since it is an appropriate term, and will be recognizable to a lot of fans, thanks in large part to this list, I figured I might as well use something that's already in use and works. Note that the terms "Canon" and "Canon Doubt and Uncertainty" also originated on this list (with Elizabeth, I believe), as shorthand for "the official In Nomine universe published by Steve Jackson Games" and "stuff that Steve Jackson Games has deliberately decided not to take a position on in published materials." They started as unofficial jargon, and because they're appropriate, flavorful, and a lot easier to type, they will also become part of the GMG. And "In Nomine backwards," as a term for an In Nomine campaign in which the angels are the bad guys and the demons are the good guys. (You can't take sole credit for that, Emily, since as you pointed out, it IS on the inside cover the main rulebook.) Is there something you find particularly objectionable about the terms, or just that you think it's strange for stuff that appears on this list to make it into print? I'd think most people would appreciate the latter, since it demonstrates that In Nomine writers DO read this list, and ideas that are good enough might eventually become part of the game world. Now if I can just get my really cool campaign idea about Jesus Christ being Laurence and Lilith's love child into canon... - -David (that was a joke, put down that hammer....) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:48:22 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Demon of Atheism >>>great NPC except for one thing, and I bet everyone here can guess what my problem is...immune to Divine Intervention?!?! That seems _extremely_ too powerful for a rather weak Wordbound Demon. Even Superiors are not immune to Divine Intervention,<<< Like I said, he stretches canon a bit, and that's probably why Elizabeth rejected him. But he's not necessarily immune to Divine Interventions. Maybe God's just saying "Fine, you don't believe in me? I don't believe in you!" And thus denying him the possibility of ever redeeming... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:48:31 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Remnant Experience? >>>(Keep in mind, though, that although demons emerge at 7 Forces, angels fledge at 9! An "average" angelic Remnant, therefore - 3/3/0 - still needs two more Forces to actually be an angel. Adding a Force this way creates a Reliever with some scattered memories of being an Angel once. IIRC.)<<< That's not correct. While demons need 7 Forces and angels need 9 to "fledge," they can be reduced below that number in celestial combat and still be full angels and demons. Theoretically, a celestial could be reduced to 3 Forces (1 in each realm) and still be an angel or demon...albeit an extremely weak one. You don't automatically turn into a celestial spirit upon having your Forces reduced below a certain threshold. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:48:35 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Demon of Atheism >>>Cool. What would Tchort's stage name be? Or is that left as an exercise to the reader?<<< I figured he'd use his Role name, Bartholomew Godfrey. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:48:26 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Theme >>>In low Resolution campaigns, you're only seeing a tiny fragment of the big picture. Your primary purpose is keeping Mrs. Thomas from snapping at the Rap music players down the block. In high Resolution campaigns, the world is your playground, and Archangels and Demon Princes are sending you out to joust over the fates of entire countries.<<< I describe this as "theme" in the GMG. I.e., mythic, realistic, or high concept. The GMG will be playtested on Pyramid, btw, for those of you who haven't yet shelled out $15 for a year's subscription. - -David (not a Servitor of anyone, doesn't get any Essence for plugs, darnit) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:19:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite Azariel the "Malakite"; Former Elohite of Fire, Now Renegade Angel Corporeal 4 Strength 8 Agility 8 Ethereal 4 Intelligence 8 Precision 8 Celestial 4 Will 9 Perception 7 Vessel: Human/5 Role: Vigilante/4 with Status/3 Skills Acrobatics/1; Chemistry/1; Climbing/1; Computer Operation/1; Detect Lies/3; Dodge/1; Electronics/1; Engineering/1; Escape/1; Fast Talk/1; Fighting/3; Knowledge: Psychology/3; Large Weapon/1; Lockpicking/1; Lying/1; Move Silently/1; Ranged Weapon/1; Running/1; Savoir-Faire/1; Seduction/1; Singing/1; Small Weapon/1; Swimming/1; Throwing/1; Tracking/1 Songs Dreams: Corporeal/2; Celestial/1 Form: Corporeal/2; Ethereal/2; Celestial/1 Healing: Corporeal/2; Ethereal/1; Celestial/1 Numinous Courpus: Flame/3; Wings/3 Sensation: Corporeal/2 Shields: Corporeal/2 Tongues: Corporeal/1; Ethereal/1; Celestial/1 Discord Geas: Never suffer an evil to live when it's his choice/6 Geas: Never surrender in a fight, nor be captured by Lucifer's forces/6 Geas: Inflict punishment appropriate to the crime on the guilty/6 Geas: Protect the good, faithful, and innocent/6 Azariel was an experienced Elohite of Fire who exceled at his job of punishing sadists, giving the cruel a taste of their own medicine. His talent at his duties resulted in being assigned to crueler and more twisted case subjects. Azariel handled the assignments given to him with the same level of competence he had exhibited with the milder cases, earning several attunements and distinctions in the course of his duties. But all was not well with Azariel. Exposed to the most depraved and sadistic examples of humanity, he could not help but feel deep revulsion towards the ones he punished, and sympathy to those they victimized. He began going out of his way to make sure the cruel suffered for the pain they caused, his vindictiveness and zeal clouding his Elohite objectivity. He enjoyed giving punishment to those that deserved, and sought out every opportunity he could to do so, even while on other missions. Of course, such subjectivity came with a price. Dissonance built up within him, but Azariel believed in his cause too much to care. After all, the guilty deserved to be punished; how could what he did be wrong? And then one day it happened. Azariel felt the fire well up inside of him, scorching him in an inferno of the soul. "What is happening?" he thought. "Am I Falling? But I can't be Falling! I'm doing what is just!" As the agony surged through his spirit Azariel tried to think, to come up with an explanation for what was happening. Surely the Lord wouldn't cast him down for punishing the guilty, protecting the innocent. This had to be something else. And then Azariel remembered the Malakim. Born out of a sense of outrage, passion, and zealous devotion to God, the Malakim came from all of Heaven, casting aside their former Choirs and swearing their oaths they became living embodiments of honor, righteousness, and purity. That was what was happening to him! He wasn't Falling, He was Chosen! And Azariel embaced the burning for what it was, the Fire of God sent to temper his spirit, make it strong and pure. And with his soul in flux, Azariel swore his oaths to himself and God. Roleplaying Notes Azariel, like all Habbalah, considers himself an angel through and through. What sets him apart from most Habbalah is that he still considers himself loyal to Heaven and an enemy of Hell. After all, he's a Malakite, a true angel who can never fall, not some poor, deluded Habbalah. He has his oaths to prove it. As to why he finds Divine Tethers painful and can't ascend to Heaven, well that's just God's way of telling him his work is on Earth. Azariel keeps the oaths he swore as well any Malakite. He works to kill evil by punishing the guilty with intimidation and torture. He prefers psychological but is willing to resort to physical force when necessary. He uses his Resonance, Songs, and Skills in attempt to drive the guilty to repentence. If he can kill the evil within them, good. If not, there are more, final ways of slaying evil. Unlike most Habbalah, Azariel doesn't care whether one is weak or strong; It's guilt or innocence which matters to him. In fact, he takes great pleasure in punishing those that would prey on the weak, for those that do are often the most wicked and craven. He is always sure to make sure that his punishments never exceed the crime, at least by his standards. As for interactions with other Angels, he is willing to lend help and aid to any he encounters, but he doesn't seek them out. After all, he answers to God directly, and doesn't have the time to involve himself in inter-Superior politics. He is open to cooperating with other angels, but prefers to pursue his duties as a loner. As for demons, if their on the road to repentence, then good. If not, they better get on it or face God's Wrath. Because he has never been to Hell or presented himself to a Demon Prince, Azariel remains one of the Unknown, and has avoided pursuit of the Game. Azariel rarely takes Celestial Form, for his work is in the Corporeal World, or in the Marches to haunt the dreams of the wicked. This habit, and the mindset he has makes it extremely unlikely that he would be percieved as anything other than a Malakite. And you know, maybe he is a Malakite. Can you tell the difference? Azariel's Role and Status represensts the fact that he has become an urban legend in the criminal underworld, a shadowy bogeyman who will come and punish the vicious and cruel. This bogeyman, however, is all too real. Azariel would be a balanced starting character if one were willing to ignore that one inconvenient rule that one can not start with Geas as a discord. The main In Nomine Rulebook seemed to imply their are other ways besides the Lilim Resonance for Geas to be gained and so for story reasons Geas were gained as Azariel swore his oaths while his soul was being reconfigured. The four Geas discords granted an extra 72 points, 30 of which were used to buy 3 extra forces. The Geas were givin to simulate Malakim Oaths, and to provide somethiing which reinforces Azariel's self-perception. After all, if he takes dissonance for violating his oaths, and fails to fall, then he must be a Malakite. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:41:27 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Theme At 7:48 PM -0400 5/19/99, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>In low Resolution campaigns, you're only seeing a tiny fragment of >the big picture. Your primary purpose is keeping Mrs. Thomas from >snapping at the Rap music players down the block. In high Resolution >campaigns, the world is your playground, and Archangels and Demon >Princes are sending you out to joust over the fates of entire >countries.<<< > >I describe this as "theme" in the GMG. I.e., mythic, realistic, or high >concept. I don't usually cheerlead. I'll make an exception. *Excellent.* I'm very glad to hear that themes are being covered. The more I hear about the GMG, the happier I am. >The GMG will be playtested on Pyramid, btw, for those of you who haven't >yet shelled out $15 for a year's subscription. > >-David (not a Servitor of anyone, doesn't get any Essence for plugs, >darnit) If you end up in Limbo, we'll send you Essence towards a vessal. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1231 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.