From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat May 22 20:09:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01560 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:09:02 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA13996 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:08:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:08:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199905230108.UAA13996@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1234 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, May 22 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1234 In this digest: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Re: IN> Minimal Spirit IN> my mistake Re: IN> Minimal Spirit Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths IN> Character Generators IN> Artifact: "Celestial Insurance Policy" IN> Discordian Survey IN> Role costs Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths IN> Profit From the Internet Growth Explosion. Re: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite Re: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite Re: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite Re: IN> Loose Canons Re: IN> Atheism in In Nomine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:22:52 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths - -----Original Message----- From: Whistling in the Dark > >Malakim "suffer" from what Paladins used to suffer from back in the >days of First Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (and to a lesser >extent in Second, and Malphas only knows these days) -- an >overwhelming perception of what they *had* to be. They were always >Lawful Good Warriors of God who were Holy Knights on a mission with >their Holy Avengers smiting evil. And that is a concept that is aggravatingly hard to wrap your brain around, which is why I'm glad the CPG stressed the fact that Malakim were embodiments of virtues, rather than of smiting any- and everything that didn't live up to their personal codes of honor. For that matter, Dominc suffers from the same sort of image as the stereotypical Paladin, only he's less well-liked. It was only been after reading the expanded writeup on him, and moreso after reading various opinions on him in this mailing list, that he became anything like a sympathetic character to me. >Malakim are perceived as jackbooted thugs fightin' for the LORD! I >see them as the embodiment of virtue -- the uncorruptable expression >of the Will of God, whoever he may be. That's the way I see them now, as well. Azzur's first priority is protecting the innocent from harm (appropriate enough, considering his current Superior,) but he can also bring Tarantinoesque levels of violence to bear when there are demons to fight. He's a nice little bundle of contradictions, and I like playing that sort of character. >I think Malakim, who can resonate >honorable intent, are likely the most common choir to recommend a >renegade demon be Redeemed (whereupon other choirs might take over). >Evil destroyed is so much more effective that way, after all.... The more calm among the Malakim will, at least. *g* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:39:28 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Minimal Spirit At 17:16 -0400 5/21/99, Steve Jessop wrote: >Optional rules: >1) Modify your chance of being perceived in celestial form on earth >according to your corporeal forces (so relievers spend a lot of time >jumping up and down in front of dense humans waving their arms). I think I prefer that being based on Celestial Forces, the way it is currently, though this is a good alternative. >2) You can't take a role at a level higher than, say, (2 + Corporeal >forces), although remnants etc. might get to keep a role if their corp. >forces drop. That one sounds good. Same thing with Vessel level, maybe. >3) If you have no corp. forces, you can't have a vessel, can still >manifest on earth in cel. form, but if you do so you cause a constant >disturbance instead of just when you arrive. Say an extra one point every >minute or something, cumulative unless you keep moving. The not having a vessel part seems reasonable (and is near-canon, I thought); I'm less enthusiastic about the constant disturbance part. To some extent, I'd say it's *harder* to disturb the corporeal parts of the Symphony if you have no Corporeal Forces. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:38:55 PDT From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> my mistake please ignore the email addy at the top of my combat question post. it's obviously a silly mistake made, dont post to it as my friend wont be happy! apologies for any problems caused Martin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 23:28:11 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Minimal Spirit On Fri, 21 May 1999, Walter Milliken wrote: > >2) You can't take a role at a level higher than, say, (2 + Corporeal > >forces), although remnants etc. might get to keep a role if their corp. > >forces drop. > > That one sounds good. Same thing with Vessel level, maybe. Thought of that, too, but I also thought it would tend to encourage 6-corp. force combat munchies. > I'm less enthusiastic about the constant disturbance part. To some extent, > I'd say it's *harder* to disturb the corporeal parts of the Symphony if you > have no Corporeal Forces. Hmm. Two argument against that, although I'm not fanatical on the subject. 1) If you have no corporeal forces, you even more aren't supposed to be on earth. The disturbance from taking celestial form I assumed was the Symphony objecting to your face, rather than you giving the Symphony a good old whack. 2) It goes against the fact that roles mask disturbance - it lets you mask your disturbance either by fitting into the Symphony (doesn't your role roll depend on corp. forces), or by failing to fit into it, but nothing in between. I can see the metaphysics in favour of that, it just grates somehow. Steve. - ------ Why do computer programmers confuse Hallowe'en and Christmas? Because oct31=dec25. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:29:47 -0700 From: "McCarthy, Douglas J" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths > From: Elizabeth McCoy > >3) If someone injures an animal, injure that person the same way. > >4) If someone kills an animal, kill that person. > > > >(more or less; I don't think he is constantly going to go out and stick > >hooks through fishermen's cheeks, for instance.) > > Actually, if he's obeying his oaths, he _should_ -- at least if he's > in the presence of a fisherman. Well, as they are worded above, yes he should - but they haven't been set in stone yet. > > No. Disturbance does not equal dissonance. > I didn't think so. Otherwise Songs would be Very Bad Indeed... for both sides. > >Should I make him pick Oaths that > >don't involve so much bloodshed? > > It's your campaign. If you're not comfortable with this character, > then don't let him in! Okay, here's where I feel I should set the stage a bit. The setting is Santa Cruz, California, and the only current Tether there is one to Novalis. (There used to be one to Haagenti, but that is another story.) This Malakite (who has Dog and Hawk vessels as well as his human one) is one of the pre-generated characters I made to introduce a bunch of (otherwise-experienced) players to the whole IN setting. I wanted *this* particular player to play *this* particular character for a number of different reasons. First, he's the most bloodthirsty player in the group, and I wanted to give him a character that would go well with his temperament. Second, another of the pregenerated characters is a Cherub of Jordi with Cat, Sea Lion, and Human vessels, and the player who picked that character makes an interesting counterpoint to the Malakite player... they get along about as well as Cat vessels and Dog vessels do. :-) (Most of the pre-gens were Novalis followers, but I made about twice as many as I needed, and only one Novalite got picked... oh well.) Little did I know how much I would have to plan around a Malakite of Jordi in a Novalis-oriented town setting. The rest of the characters are pretty wimpy in combat (which is by design) so to keep the Malakite from being too bored, I am putting in moral dilemmas for him instead of combat dilemmas. So I plan around him, but I still want him there. > You could, of course, decide that if the > character is getting too messed up by his oaths, Jordi will come > and change the oaths for him. (His Superior can do that, natch.) > The _character_ would never dream of asking for changed oaths, but > Archangels sometimes do things for their Servitors' own good. Hmmm... I hadn't thought of Jordi intervening like that. I like it. > From: Earl Wajenberg > This Malakite should logically go berserk it lots of situations > involving food animals. Or stepping on ants by mistake. Or > splatting bugs on your windshield. Or slapping mosquitoes. > Do you want that? (These insectile ones are really hard to > inflict on humans in symmetric revenge. *Step* on them?...) Well, according to some source I read recently, one Biblical interpretation of what an "animal" is is "something that has blood", so insects don't really count. But I'm going to modify that Oath anyway to probably involve some intention of cruelty, so this shouldn't matter too much. And thanks to the rest of you that responded! I feel much better prepared now. - -- Doug McCarthy And this is artificial moonlight... douglas.j.mccarthy@intel.com and artificial sky. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:37:07 -0400 From: Jerry & Virginia Phillips Subject: IN> Character Generators Has anyone out there heard off or developed a character generation program for DOS or Windows 9x? If so, where can I get a copy? Mot Elohite Servitor of Jean ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:57:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: IN> Artifact: "Celestial Insurance Policy" "Celestial Insurance Policy" (4 points) ...That's the common slang term given to these common artifacts, whose 'real names' vary by the whim of the enchanter ('Zadkiel's Blessing', 'Essence of the Calabim', and so on). They are usually small, easily broken pendants worn around the neck, though a thin, unrecognizable coin (usually kept in a pocket) is common as well. It has no use at all when the owner is in Corporeal form. However, if in Celestial form, its owner may choose to break the relic in two, releasing its power. Suddenly, the owner's Celestial form becomes dangerous and deadly; the wings of a Seraph become solid and bladed, the fangs and claws of a Djinn lengthen and gleam, and celestial knives, spears, and chainsaws emerge from within the ooze of a Shedite... for the next 1d minutes, all of the owner's celestial attacks do +6 damage! Unfortunately, once used, the artifact is destroyed. But when your back's against the wall, the only way out is through whatever forced you back. (Note: This artifact causes disturbance equal to 12, plus the duration die roll, when used. If it is ever lost, the owner may roll against his Celestial Forces + 6 to locate it.) - -------- ARTIFACT CREATION Song of Might/6 . . . 18 points Fragile . . . . . . . -2 points SUBTOTAL . . . . . . 16 points One charge . . . . . divide by 4 TOTAL . . . . . . . . 4 points The artifact holds 6 essence and is self-powered (for a target number of 12, auto-success). - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ::: Or go to http://www.cris.com/~pkitty (hell, go there anyways!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 19:32:56 PDT From: "Hydrax 59" Subject: IN> Discordian Survey Just in case anyone's interested, here are the results of the survey on who considered themselves discordian on the list. 3 people (4 including me) consider themselves discordian 1 person considers him/herself to be semi-discordian 1 person considers him/herself to have discordian leanings. And that's all the responses I got. Hydrax 59 In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 23:11:00 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> Role costs I'm sure this has been asked before, but I haven't seen it, and it bothers me now that I actually look at it: "The cost of a Role depends on its status and its level.... Multiply Status by Level, and divide the result by two." What happens, then, to Roles whose status is an odd number? A Role/1 with status/1 will cost a single character point (rounding up, as per the errata), but then why not just go for a Role/2 with status/1, as that too costs 1 point? - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:02:04 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Our spies report that on 11:01 AM 5/21/99 -0700, McCarthy, Douglas J said: > I guess I'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around Malakim. > > There is a Malakite of Jordi in my campaign. Both he and I are >relatively new at this; he's my first Malakite PC, and this is his first In >Nomine character *ever*. We are trying to get his Oaths nailed down. There >are the two standard ones, which are fine, but he wants his other ones to >be: > >3) If someone injures an animal, injure that person the same way. >4) If someone kills an animal, kill that person. > Four is only an extension of three. If you injure an animal and it is a mortal wound, the same injury to a human would likely be mortal as well. Disturbance may or may not be an issue. Jordi's Servitors do not cause disturbance in their animal vessels, as I recall. However, if you take Oath 3 literally, you would likely have to shoot mortals with guns, hit them with cars and poison them a lot. None of those would fall under the animal vessel protection against disturbance. Maybe make the oath "Always do harm in equal measure to those who harm innocent animals."? I say that because even Jordi probably wouldn't be upset if a crocodile tried to eat a human and the human somehow beat it to death with a rock. If you want a darker campaign, of course, you can leave out the innocent part. Then when a rabid dog gnaws on a small human child, who manages to stab it with a pencil and run away, you have an avenging angel out to stab a small human child. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 02:05:05 EDT From: METHID420@aol.com Subject: IN> Profit From the Internet Growth Explosion. This is a one time mailing Attention Marketers & Opportunity Seekers the Internet is exploding!! STOP Wasting your time & Money If you want to make money on the Internet or know someone who does you need to check this out. People are making over $500 a day and just started 30 days ago. You can too with our turn key system and our massive advertising campaign. I'll Show You How To Turn A One Time $100 into $1,000 Per Month, Per week, or Even Per Day. Call 800 242-0363 Ex 1998 NO RISK-HIGH RETURN PRODUCT DRIVEN World wide product and opportunity. We are in over 40 countries. We DARE you to compare. No gimmicks, No Hassles, No Products to Inventory, No Break away-No take Away No Hoops to jump Through,. Are You Starting to get the Picture? Get Paid NOW! For What You Do NOW! For more information and how to get started Call 800 242-0363 Ex 1998 Internet traffic doubles every 100 days. Electronic commerce should reach $300 billion by the year 2002. Over 100 million people are on-line right now in 1999. Research studies on the Electronic Commerce evolution are presenting a bright future, in terms of financial growth on the Internet. This is a product that everyone needs to reach the Internet audience. It is time you got your share of the action 800 242-0363 Ex 1998 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:34:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite On Fri, 21 May 1999, Benjamin Acosta wrote: > What's really twisted is that if the Triad actually catches up with > Azariel he could pass their inquires with flying colors. It's worth noting that Domenic's Seraphs usually have high Perceptions, and his Seraph Attunement is adding Celestial Forces to Perception (at least for the purposes of Resonance, I forget.) I figure an *average* Seraph of Judgement will have 4 Celestial Forces and a Perception of ten, allowing them to succeed in their resonance except on a Diabolic intervention AND get +2 to their check digit. It's also worth noting that one of Domenic's attunements (Ofanim?) allows you to detect *Discord* which under current mechanics would include the Malakim's geasa. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:41:01 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite On Sat, 22 May 1999, Elizabeth Bartley wrote: > It's also worth noting that one of Domenic's attunements (Ofanim?) allows > you to detect *Discord* which under current mechanics would include the > Malakim's geasa. It's ambiguous. It might be in the erratta, not sure, but the Ofanim resonance says they can detect discord. One of the other resonances (Malakim?) says 'Like the Ofanim, who can detect discord in humans, xxx can detect dissonance in celestials'. However, humans can't have discord. Go figure. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 11:52:33 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite At 03:41 PM 5/22/99 +0100, you wrote: >It's ambiguous. It might be in the erratta, not sure, but the Ofanim >resonance says they can detect discord. One of the other resonances >(Malakim?) says 'Like the Ofanim, who can detect discord in humans, xxx >can detect dissonance in celestials'. >However, humans can't have discord. Go figure. It's in the errata - "p.114 - Delete "in humans" from the Malakim entry under /Choir Attunements/." Ofanim detect Discord in celestials (although that entry should be corrected, too ^_^). >Steve. - -EDG "Within a number of feet equal to their Celestial Forces, they can tell exactly what Discord a celestial has, and how much." is how it probably ought to read. ^_^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 12:23:22 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Loose Canons At 09:30 AM 5/18/99 +0000, you wrote: >Of course relievers can have vessels. That's where familiars come >from (on the angelic side, anyway). This has been bugging me since I read it, but I've only found implied references to it. Is this true? I was under the impression that relievers and Heavenly familiars were two entirely different types of creature. >Leath. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:07:36 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Atheism in In Nomine >From: Whistling in the Dark >>I have yet to understand the Word-bound. :) >> >>-Perry > >For you are Perial, Angel of Not Understanding the Word Bound. You >can't go into Word Conflict, after all. Oh, dear. :) Perial? Angel of Not Understanding the Word Bound? So I don't understand myself? Super. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Remember, napalm skicks to kids!" - Seana Harned _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1234 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.