From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 31 18:10:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26735 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 18:10:00 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA10919 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 31 May 1999 18:10:13 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:10:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199905312310.SAA10919@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1245 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 31 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1245 In this digest: IN> Mayflies IN> Finding RPG stores abroad Re: IN> Mayflies IN> Night Music and Celestial needs Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs IN> 2 Kyrio of Janus questions Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim IN> Renegade Shedim Re: IN> 2 Kyrio of Janus questions Re: IN> Renegade Shedim Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim and Morality Re: IN> An odd In setting Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs Re: IN> Renegade Shedim Re: IN> Renegade Shedim Re: IN> An odd In setting Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs Re: IN> Renegade Shedim Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs IN> Gamex 99 Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:22:53 PDT From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Mayflies What exactly could a swarm of mayflies do to anyone? The reason they live such a short time is that they have no digestive system. They don't eat. Therefore they have no teeth, stingers, poison ... Although I suppose if you got enough of them they could help cover an escape or distract an enemy by getting in his eyes, or cutting off his air. Janet Anderson _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:58:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: IN> Finding RPG stores abroad On Sun, 30 May 1999, Andrew Bonham wrote: > In about a week, I'm going to Paris with some friends.... and I was > wondering if anyone knew of a store(s) in Paris that sells French Role > Playing Games... specifically, INS/MV or French versions of the world of > Darkness? I tracked down a website with a reasonable list of RPG shops all over the world at http://www.ufbs.co.uk/jason/shops/rpgshops.html I would bet it doesn't have over ten percent of the stores that are out there, but - well - it's got *something*, and I don't know of anyplace else where you can do that. It also has a form which allows you to add new stores, to make the website better. Sorry for responding to the list, but it's possible the list and/or email addresses below would come in handy for others. The rest is the list for France, which includes several in Paris: Bordeaux L'Antre Des Dragons, 56 Rue Du Loup, Bordeaux, 33000 Bordeaux Tel: (33) 05.56.51.73.78 Fax: (33) 05.56.79.33.45 dragons@atlantel.fr http://dragons.enfrance.com Gironde AAGames, 8-10 Rue Judaque, Bordeaux, Gironde, 33000 Tel: (+33) 5 56 00 72 92 Fax: (+33) 5 56 00 72 90 gamemaster@aagames.com http://www.aagames.com Rocambole, rue de la clef, Lille , 59000 Paris Jeux Descartes, 1, Rue de colonel Pierre Avai, Cedix 15, Paris, 75503 Jeux Descartes, 52 rue des Ecoles, Paris, 75005 L'oeuf cube, 24 rue Linne, Paris, 75005 OYA, 22 ru Daubenton, Paris, 75005 Tel: 01 47 07 59 59 Provence L'Archimage, 27, rue de la Couronne, Aix en Provence, Provence, 13100 Tel: (33) 04.42.38.54.00 Fax: (33) 04.42.93.32.62 archimag@infonie.fr http://www.wind-fr.org/aix_infos/loisirs/archimage/ Copyright 1997 Jason Anthony Last Updated: 28th May 1999 Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:29:54 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Mayflies At 06:22 PM 5/30/99 PDT, you wrote: >What exactly could a swarm of mayflies do to anyone? The reason they live >such a short time is that they have no digestive system. They don't eat. >Therefore they have no teeth, stingers, poison ... >Although I suppose if you got enough of them they could help cover an escape >or distract an enemy by getting in his eyes, or cutting off his air. Just think about it... You're sitting there on your porch, reading a magazine, smoking a cigarette, rum&Coke by your side, when suddenly you notice... a big bunch of mayflies. Just sitting there across the porch. Flying in formation. _Looking_ at you... *shudder* (Hee hee... a mayfly with three Corporeal Forces... "Why... won't... you... DIE?" *swat* *buzz*) - -EDG a creature with no need to eat or drink would be the ideal vessel for a celestial, actually. All you'd have to do to blend in is breathe, and that you need to do anyway... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:54:10 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs I was reading over Night Music and something odd occurred to me...it mentions that Zara has a healing mud. it's not the mud that bothers me, it's the fact that they mention that some healing requires complete submersion, and then it mentions that such an act would require a person to use some form of scuba gear _unless they are a celestial_. so here's the problem: don't vessels need to breathe? is this simple errata, or is there something I haven't noticed about vessels? Dennis H. Groome V -- "Amo Nympham" Web Developer, AN Consulting / Producer, Broken Glass Productions nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11340261 http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9651 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" - -Stabbing Westward, ACF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 01:11:19 -0400 From: Matthew Rice Subject: Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs Amo Nympham wrote: > > I was reading over Night Music and something odd occurred to me...it > mentions that Zara has a healing mud. it's not the mud that bothers me, > it's the fact that they mention that some healing requires complete > submersion, and then it mentions that such an act would require a person to > use some form of scuba gear _unless they are a celestial_. so here's the > problem: don't vessels need to breathe? is this simple errata, or is there > something I haven't noticed about vessels? > > Dennis H. Groome V -- "Amo Nympham" Oh yes, vessels do need to breathe. I'm not sure why, since they seem to be self-sustaining in most other respects. Need to get oxygen to all the squishy bits, I guess. In this case, I think a simple snorkel would suffice. - -- Matthew Rice "The Master said, Just as to sacrifice to ancestors other than one's own is presumption, so to see what is right and not do it is cowardice." - -- Confucius, The Analects, II:24 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 01:03:37 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs At 11:54 PM 5/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >use some form of scuba gear _unless they are a celestial_. so here's the >problem: don't vessels need to breathe? is this simple errata, or is there >something I haven't noticed about vessels? This probably needs to be errata'd. Celestial vessels _do_ need to breathe - - it's the only major involuntary function, however, that they do need to perform, so far as I can tell. - -EDG the breath is the spirit. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 06:21:05 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs On Mon, 31 May 1999, EDG wrote: > At 11:54 PM 5/30/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >use some form of scuba gear _unless they are a celestial_. so here's the > >problem: don't vessels need to breathe? is this simple errata, or is there > >something I haven't noticed about vessels? > > This probably needs to be errata'd. Celestial vessels _do_ need to breathe > - it's the only major involuntary function, however, that they do need to > perform, so far as I can tell. > > -EDG > the breath is the spirit. > > Could be they meant Celestials had better breath control or something - but probably needs to be errata'd. Reason for it is probably the more mystic one - and not breathing can be spotted fairly easily - ask any Vampire player :) Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:14:14 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: IN> 2 Kyrio of Janus questions G'day. I'm putting together an IN game for a local convention at the moment, and I've got a couple of things I need to double check. 1. Is the Kyrio of Janus' gaseous form completely immune to physical damage? Even from celestial sources (specifically, the Calabite resonance)? If not, how many Body Hits would it have (I'm guessing Str x Corp Forces). 2. If a Kyrio of Janus Swipes an object from one Host's location, can the object pop back into existence with one of it's other Hosts? What if it changes Hosts in the interim? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. I'll probably post the scenario to the list when it's finished. (I crunched some numbers earlier - the game includes a 615 point Disturbance. Yoicks.) - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Journalism is not a profession or a trade. It is a cheap catch-all for fuckoffs & misfits - a false doorway to the backside of life, a filthy piss-ridden little hole nailed off by the building inspector, but just deep enough for a wino to curl up from the sidewalk and masturbate like a chimp in a zoo-cage. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 02:32:08 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/30/99 1:17:50 AM, omentide@compuserve.com writes: > > >What troubles me is how people who perceive IN demons as out and out > > > >'nasties' manage to cope with them as PCs. OK, we're all capable of some > > > >pretty nasty stuff and, occasionally, it's fun to roleplay a character > >who > > > >does things that run contrary to our social conditioning. But, in a > > > >sustained campaign, how can a person play a character they define as out > > > >and out 'evil'? Do people who like high contrast games enjoy playing > > > >demons? I don't get it. Why should it be difficult to RP a being whose goal it is to see all of humanity fall under Hellish influence? Just stick yourself in that mindset. It's like character acting. Ask an actor how he or she plays a villain for a six month run of say...Don Giovanni or The Jew of Malta. My current game involves a male Lilim of the Media who, working with a Shedite (it's possible) of the Media and an Impudtite of Fate and a Calabite of Wrath (my own Prince, writeup to be posted here soon) working on Nybbas and Andre's paradigm of 'Media as religion'. The Shedite possesses someone, the Lilim then 'frees this poor soul from his torment' and picks up a Geas. The Impudite then helps the poor soul offstage (stealing some Essence at the same time and later storing it in some Reliquaries they have). The Calabite is 'hired help', meant to provide security and to distract the Host from this activity for as long as possible by monkeywrenching some local religious groups in the name of her Prince. Overall, it's going pretty well, the next big bit of fun will come as Laurence and Dominic look into who's been perverting the idea of Christianity. Yves may also be in on it, I havn't decided yet. But overall, the players enjoy RPing the demons. Yes, miracles every Sunday night at 8, tune in and be saved. They find it fun to look at things from the other perspective and their internecine conflicts are also rather fun (such as the Impudite wanting to -stop- a possession or two because it may drive a mortal away from their true, darkest fate). Like I said, it's character acting, basically. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 02:38:45 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: IN> Renegade Shedim Okay, I still don't know how they do it. How can a Shedite go Renegade without becomeing a puddle of Dissonance or Discord? I mean, if they - -still- want to corrupt humans and such, I doubt they'd -go- Renegade in the first place. Outside of Shedim of the Game (who don't need to corrupt) how is it -possible-? - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:42:33 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> 2 Kyrio of Janus questions On Mon, 31 May 1999, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > G'day. > I'm putting together an IN game for a local convention at the > moment, and I've got a couple of things I need to double check. > > 1. Is the Kyrio of Janus' gaseous form completely immune to physical > damage? Even from celestial sources (specifically, the Calabite > resonance)? If not, how many Body Hits would it have (I'm guessing Str > x Corp Forces). It doesn't really give you any details but assuming you are wind then normal physical methods of hurting air are a bit hard to find but the Calabite resonance would count. Although the lack of numbers given for Body Hits implies no damage can be taken. But Str x Corp sounds about right. > > 2. If a Kyrio of Janus Swipes an object from one Host's location, can > the object pop back into existence with one of it's other Hosts? What > if it changes Hosts in the interim? > Can't rem the details on this one - but doesn't swipe have a range - so could be taken to any Hosts within that range. Changing Hosts - er - would still just choose an apporiate Host within range surely? > Any ideas are greatly appreciated. I'll probably post the scenario > to the list when it's finished. Cool - I always like hearing about other peoples campaigns. > (I crunched some numbers earlier - the game includes a 615 point > Disturbance. Yoicks.) > Sounds familiar - but will people playing this be IN players or this likely to be their first experience? If 1st then toning it down might be a good idea - they wouldn't appreciate just how obscene that is... Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:48:40 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> Renegade Shedim Renegade does not mean Redemption candidate - it just means a Demon who is on the run from the Game and previous Prince. They can go Renegade and happily corrupt as per normal if they wish. The problem still comes in with those who wish to Redeem. I was thinking of playing a Shedite aiming for Redemption - but not quite ready for it yet - and just went Gah - when trying to work how not to turn puddlesque.(Cool word :) ) Decide they want to and try really quickly to meet an Angel or Archangel seems to be about the only option. Jumping from Host to Host really quickly with only the occaisonal phenomally minor corruption might work too - but that one is iffy... On Mon, 31 May 1999, Steel Angel wrote: > Okay, I still don't know how they do it. How can a Shedite go Renegade > without becomeing a puddle of Dissonance or Discord? I mean, if they > -still- want to corrupt humans and such, I doubt they'd -go- Renegade in > the first place. Outside of Shedim of the Game (who don't need to > corrupt) how is it -possible-? > > - Abracax: Shedite of Riots > Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 04:08:56 PDT From: "Hydrax 59" Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim and Morality > >I actually see shedim as removing all the cultural mores that >society >imposes on you. Haven't you ever wanted to smash the teeth >in of that >annoying guy at your work/school/etc. when it's him who >gets the >promotion/girls/etc. instead of you? doesn't it just make >you so angry? >but you don't. Why? because you've been brought up in a society where >hurting other people is a Bad Thing. The shedim is >that little voice >inside you that says "Go on, you're better than the rest of them,don't you >deserve to be treated better?"< > >Actually, while that's true for some people, it's not true for >everyone. >What you're asserting here is that everyone's moral >behavior stems solely >from cultural pressure (i.e., external mores). >Lots of people wouldn't >smash someone's teeth even if the culture >would let them get away with it, >because THEY believe it's wrong > (i.e., internal mores). But where do these internal mores come from? that's right, the society you got brought up in. What you are is determined by where you are. True, some people may have further room for growth than others, but this will only come to light if they are in a situation which allows it to come to light. Alternately, there are some people will have further room for descent, and if they were placed in a situation where "evil" (for want of a better term) was incomprehesible, then perhaps they would not descend as far. You see, it takes greatness of spirit to become a saint, but any old schmoe can become a murderer, if you press his buttons right. >I bring this up because this comes up in religious arguments often; >some >religious folks believe all morality comes from God, and >without belief in >God, humans would have no morals. Others (like me) >believe all morals are >human mental constructs. Isn't that what I was saying Shedim removed? And didn't you just agree with me by saying that morals are human constructs? >And so we venture into the area of Relative vs. Absolute Morality. >If >y'all want to sound really deep, make what you will of that with >regard to >Shedim and Lilim.... Well, ya see, Lillim can recognise and work within a moral framework, whereas shedim are dedicated to the corruption of it. Hydrax, who simply listened to the voices. If Adam and Eve never married, what does that make us? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 04:12:47 PDT From: "Hydrax 59" Subject: Re: IN> An odd In setting >Well, it was just a thought. Actually, I liked it. If you ever type it up, can you tell me? It would be interesting to see them transposed to In. Hydrax ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:17:44 -0400 From: Hilary Hayes Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >But overall, the players enjoy RPing the demons. Yes, miracles every Sunday night at 8, tune in and be saved. They find it fun to look at things from the other perspective and their internecine conflicts are also rather fun (such as the Impudite wanting to -stop- a possession or two because it may drive a mortal away from their true, darkest fate). Like I said, it's character acting, basically.< I wouldn't have a problem with that. The key is when you said 'looking at things from the other perspective'. When you talk about 'other perspective' rather than 'Good' and 'Evil', you don't have the contrast turned up full. Maybe a little fuller than =I= like, but that contrast knob still has a few notches left. I like playing demons. My last campaign had a total of =three= Shedim. They were pretty nasty, but the two Shedites of Andre stuck to fairly subtle stuff. Making the sweet convent girl take contraceptive pills and visit the morning after clinic (not to mention the job in the strip bar) was perfectly corrupting enough to avoid dissonance, but it's a far cry from Clock Tower Shootings or running pederasty rings. The whole Nybbas/Andre media thing may be something of which some of us morally disapprove, but it's not the stuff that gives us nightmares. Because of that I tend to think of that particular demonic enterprise as inherently relatively low contrast by definition. I don't have a problem with roleplaying a demon who serves Hell, providing the demonic agenda is definied as selfish. I =do= have a problem when it's definied as 'evil'. (This has to do with my own belief system, and I don't think it's appropriate to discuss personal philosophies and belief-systems on list. Happy to discuss =off list= if anyone wants to). Especially when 'evil' is defined as the stuff that shocks all of us and gives people nightmares (war crimes, serial killings, gross sadism, torture, massacres, rape, child abuse). Role playing and character acting have some things in common. There are also differences. Character actors don't make up the script as they go along. Character actors are =trained= in de-roleing. You can't character act if =you= perceive the character as 'pure evil'. You spend a long time working out how that character defends his actions =to himself=. Take the example of any Dictator who committed atrocities. From the point of view of his enemies, this man is an evil war criminal. From his own point of view (and that of his supporters) he is a great patriot and a national hero. Character actors take up the point of view of the character they're playing. If you can do that in an RPG, that's fine. I've played a serial killer (in a LARP, though the only thing I managed to kill was a cat). He didn't think of =himself= as evil. He reckoned he was doing his victims a favour by preserving them in a perfect moment of happiness. It was also a 'one off' - I wouldn't have wanted to play that character for weeks on end. It's just that some people on list have been talking about demons as pure evil, with no sense of relativity. It disturbs me to think of attempting to role play or character act in that manner. Demons who think Hell is right and Heaven is =mistaken= are OK. Demons who think "Hell is evil and I am evil, so I will go out and do evil" are the ones I'm unsure how people manage to play. Hilary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:22:46 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim On Fri, May 28, 1999 at 07:53:25PM +0200, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > Still, whether you consider one of them more able than the other or not, > in what way does their abilities affect their evilness or lack thereof? > I've always sen a resonance as carrying more than an ability; it carries a mindset. Shedim on Earth live in a consequence-free world where they can do whatever they like and somebody else is the victim. Lilim, on the other hand, are encouraged by their resonance to exploit others for their own benefit, never to do anything for nothing, and never accept free payment, gratification, or anything else. They live in quite different worlds, with Shedim being present-centred, and Lilim being future-centred. So from the Lilim's point of view, the Shedite is either the perfect mark, or an absolute disaster who, by failing to acknowledge their power, renders it null. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "It is an impressive thing to hear a helpless woman damned in every item of her life, every corner of her soul. For good reason, no one accused by the Temple has ever been found innocent." Ser Visal's Tale, by Stephen Donaldson. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:23:47 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs On Mon, 31 May 1999, Matthew Rice wrote: > Oh yes, vessels do need to breathe. I'm not sure why, since they seem to > be self-sustaining in most other respects. Need to get oxygen to all the > squishy bits, I guess. They need to breathe because spirit and breath are synonymous. (The hebrew word ruach [sic] means both, IIRC.) Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:30:28 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Whistling in the Dark > >>Regarding contrast, I agree that in a low-contrast setting Lilim have a >>higher potential for being relatively nice than Shedim do, but this hasn't >>got anything to do with their resonance, but rather their dissonance >>conditions. A Lilim doesn't have to do anything nasty to anyone ever, as >>long as she can keep her Superior (if she has one) and the game away. A >>Shedite, on the other hand, -has- to do evil things, or he's on the fast >>track to Renegade-dom (which the (very, very rare) soft-hearted Shedite >>might find preferable to making people do nasty things against their will. > >Yup. > >This is, I think, part of the point. Lilim don't like resonating >Shedim because Shedim have hardwired needs to be corruptive, and >their (alien) nature is entirely devoted to that. I play most demons >as expressions of sin and selfishness, but comprehensible. Shedim >are the Lovecraftian horrors, in my game. No one gets them. They >almost never ever redeem because they're entirely wired to >selfishness and loathsome activity. Once the multitaskers of repute, >they are now monomaniacal in their focus of corruption. And for the >most part they *love* it. They love feeling that bit of human recoil >as he does worse and worse things, and feeling that bit die away so >they can flee the human, who has a clear memory of becoming a >monster. Shedim *enjoy* their work in my game. This is exactly the opposite of the way my game was. IMC, the Shedim were nearly the most human and comprehensible of the demons, and had the highest Redemption rate of any of the Bands. Almost nothing a Shedim inspires its victims to do ever really /feels/ bad -- there's almost always a real desire at the heart of it. All they do is help you set aside your self-control and your ethics in the pursuit of your ends. Even people who know about Shedim often find it difficult to identify a possessed person -- the behavior of the possessed is entirely in character for that person. The bad character, to be sure, but never something no one has seen before. Wealth justifies cooking the books; passion justifies cheating on your spouse; knowledge justifies unethical scientific experimentation; fame justifies plagiarizing another's work. The behavior the Shedim encourage is entirely understandable, entirely human, and entirely evil. However, their familiarity and understanding of human motivations often proves to be their undoing -- unlike most demons, to damn their victims they really do have to understand them. Unfortunately for Hell, this understanding has a nasty habit of blossoming into empathy. And this lets them understand why it is good to serve God, just as soon as they possess someone with faith. Neel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:35:15 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs On Mon, 31 May 1999 gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: > They need to breathe because spirit and breath are synonymous. (The > hebrew word ruach [sic] means both, IIRC.) As does Latin 'spiritus'. On the other hand, the Hebrew word 'nephesh' and the Latin word 'anima' mean 'life-force' or 'soul' without literally meaning 'breath'. So take your pick, basically. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 17:42:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Renegade Shedim On Mon, 31 May 1999, Warsinger wrote: > The problem still comes in with those who wish to Redeem. I was thinking > of playing a Shedite aiming for Redemption - but not quite ready for it > yet - and just went Gah - when trying to work how not to turn > puddlesque.(Cool word :) ) Decide they want to and try really quickly to > meet an Angel or Archangel seems to be about the only option. Jumping > from Host to Host really quickly with only the occaisonal phenomally minor > corruption might work too - but that one is iffy... I suppose you could sort of compensate by also making the host do good things, or keeping it from doing bad things. This might make the host really confused if the Shedite isn't very careful, and if it doesn't move on very quickly... I suppose it could also try to do bad things and then undo them as fast as possible, but that one's also really iffy. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:27:49 -0400 From: "Kelly W. West" Subject: Re: IN> Renegade Shedim Anders Gabrielsson Wrote >On Mon, 31 May 1999, Warsinger wrote: > >> The problem still comes in with those who wish to Redeem. I was thinking >> of playing a Shedite aiming for Redemption - but not quite ready for it >> yet - and just went Gah - when trying to work how not to turn >> puddlesque.(Cool word :) ) Decide they want to and try really quickly to >> meet an Angel or Archangel seems to be about the only option. Jumping >> from Host to Host really quickly with only the occaisonal phenomally minor >> corruption might work too - but that one is iffy... > >I suppose you could sort of compensate by also making the host do good >things, or keeping it from doing bad things. This might make the host >really confused if the Shedite isn't very careful, and if it doesn't move >on very quickly... I suppose it could also try to do bad things and then >undo them as fast as possible, but that one's also really iffy. > IMHO redemption is a series of sacrafices on the potential redeemed's part. A shedim is going to pile on the Dissonanace and Discord on the path to the light, that is part of the 'price.' There not the only ones, impudites will have to do without all the extra power he is used to, Lilim will have to forgo any geases held, and just think of a Belseraph trying to stay honest all of the time. This is why few renegades redeem, even those who have convinced themselves that hell is fated to lose. Kelly W. West (Demon of Renegade Abuse) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:21:41 -0700 From: Rebecca Wright Subject: Re: IN> An odd In setting Kim Foster wrote: > > I know I'm going to get laughed off the list for this one, but here goes. > While thinking about unusual settings for an In Nomine game an idea hit me. > The "Ancient World" as seen in the Xena and Hecules shows. No, wait, don't > delete! It actually works. Make the "Gods" powerful Ethereals, Herc, Xena > and others are Soilders or Crossbreeds, the monsters can be ethereal > baddies, Nephalillim or what have you. The idea was really inspired by some > of the more reecent episodes which have included talk of "higher" forces of > good and evil than the traditional gods, Fate, Destiny, reincarnation, even > an appearance by "Micheal", a rather angelic being serving higher powers and > a demonic incarnation of Callisto. > > Well, it was just a thought.I am also working on an "ancient world" campaign for IN. I think it would be cool have the PCs being able to witness in and participate in the major Celestial events as they are presented in canon. Currently I have a setting in New Kingdom Egypt at about the time of Exodus. The solo PC in the game so far is a Shedite of Factions that is coming out of the deserts and into the Lands of Egypt in the vessel of a merchant. As I have written at the moment the PC will run afoul of a Cherub of David working as a stonemason and a Seraph of Destiny who are charged with helping liberate the Hebrews from bondage. I am trying to come up with a way to bring the Shedite into line with them. I imagine the two angels saying to him something like "you may torment the Egyptians as long as you help us bring the Hebrews deliverance about and then we won't smite you back to Hell(but the really powerful Etherial Egyptian Gods and Soldiers will, heh, heh.) I am going to introduce Saminga into the game as some sort of twisted comic relief and also some sort of secretive and dark Egyptian cult lead by a really powerfully mummy. I guess I was inspired by the fact that IN PCs are basically immortal and could have the "Highlander" long-term view, with recurring plots and NPCs that reach across potentially thousands of years ("1783, ah, that Was a Good Year . . .") I was hoping that maybe some really clever and organized soul on the list worked out a timeline of all the important events and shifts of the War as they are presented in the various canon. This would really help somebody write a historical IN campaign. Anybody like that out there? Chris Starr Cherub of Really Long Plotlines ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:54:23 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs At 4:35 PM +0100 5/31/99, Steve Jessop wrote: >On Mon, 31 May 1999 gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: > > > They need to breathe because spirit and breath are synonymous. (The > > hebrew word ruach [sic] means both, IIRC.) > >As does Latin 'spiritus'. > >On the other hand, the Hebrew word 'nephesh' and the Latin word 'anima' >mean 'life-force' or 'soul' without literally meaning 'breath'. So take >your pick, basically. And in English, "Spirit" means both the presence of the Holy and the presence of exceptional Scotch. Therefore, henceforth, all Celestials in my game need alcohol to survive. (Why do I get the feeling Tatiel will enjoy that?) - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:13:21 -0500 From: "Mason Kramer" Subject: Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs From: Whistling in the Dark > And in English, "Spirit" means both the presence of the Holy and the > presence of exceptional Scotch. > > Therefore, henceforth, all Celestials in my game need alcohol to survive. > > (Why do I get the feeling Tatiel will enjoy that?) > [Penny starts angling for the Word of Booze.] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:18:00 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Renegade Shedim Steel Angel wrote: > > Okay, I still don't know how they do it. How can a Shedite go Renegade > without becomeing a puddle of Dissonance or Discord? [snip] They can easily go renegade - after all, a Renegade is still selfish. Redeeming, OTOH, is difficult, but not impossible. To avoid dissonance, the Shedite has to corrupt someone once a day, in a manner that indisputably harms someone. There are plenty of ways to corrupt for *good* - corrupt the bad guys. The corrupt politician, urged on by the Shedite, takes more of a public contract for himself than he normally does - and gets caught. The wife-beater hits his wife in public, and gets arrested. A shrewd criminal, who always drew the line at murder, kills his accomplice in a fit of rage. You only have to do this once a day; the rest of the time, you can be doing good. Note that the Shedite has to do more work this way. I think that's a good thing; after all, the difference between Shedim and Kyriotates is that the Shedim, IMO, are fundamentally more *lazy*. Your average Shedite will stay in one host for days, possibly weeks, sitting back and watching. It'll occasionally *tweak* things, but won't do much else. A Kyriotate, however, will be juggling multiple hosts, and has to do *everything* the host would normally do, as they're completely gone for the duration of the possession. The Kyrio also has to be concerned about the state they'll leave the host in, which tends to make them leave hosts as soon as they can. So, if a Shedite is constantly jumping between hosts, and is constantly concerned about whether they're good or evil, what harm he'll do them and whether that will benefit or harm others, it's on the path to Redemption. Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ Be careful of reading health books, you might die of a misprint. - Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:23:56 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Night Music and Celestial needs At 1:13 PM -0500 5/31/99, Mason Kramer wrote: >From: Whistling in the Dark > > > And in English, "Spirit" means both the presence of the Holy and the > > presence of exceptional Scotch. > > > > Therefore, henceforth, all Celestials in my game need alcohol to survive. > > > > (Why do I get the feeling Tatiel will enjoy that?) > > >[Penny starts angling for the Word of Booze.] Miss Penny Bright, for those who don't know (in other words, most people on this list) is a matronly Lilim who embodies TANSTAFFL about as well as any Lilim I've seen. Penny... as a bartender. I just have this image of Penny racking up Geases about an hour before last call each night. Especially for the people who can't pay their tab.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:08:14 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: IN> Gamex 99 Whee! Another fun-filled weekend in beautiful Los Angeles. I attended a gaming convention... At said convention, there were a lot of In Nomine games being played, near as I could tell. I saw four different copies of the core book being traded for money in the dealer room in my limited time there. We are spreading. But about the games... They were a lot of fun. An In Nomine tournament, in fact, existed and I made it into the final round, though not with the top ranking. :( Still, it was a lot of fun, playing with many new people, some completely new to the game, some who were anxiously reading the playtest rules years ago(like myself). The adventures ranged from Evil Furniture to a much more serious one with a Discordant Malakite and each was cool in it's own way. Other highlight of the con included GURPS: Paranoia, GURPS: X-Com Ufo Defense starring Beavis and Butthead(Too scat for this reporter, but funny to some degree at 4am) and a less slapstick but still tremendously enjoyable Ars Magica game. Those I'll talk about other places, of course... Now I rest! Sean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:11:29 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim At 2:16 AM -0700 5/30/99, Steel Angel wrote: >Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > >> A >> Shedite, on the other hand, -has- to do evil things, or he's on the fast >> track to Renegade-dom (which the (very, very rare) soft-hearted Shedite >> might find preferable to making people do nasty things against their will. > > Just out of curiosity, -how- does a Shedite stay renegade without >piling up Dissonance (or Discord) like crazy for not corrupting its >host? What if a Shedite doesn't want to Redeem? Are they stuck? Is it >Redemption or Dissonance for Shedim? Staying Renegade is easy, assuming you survive the Gamers, Judgies, and miscellaneous irate celestials. Just corrupt hosts as you go. Just because you're Renegade doesn't mean you lose your Resonance. If you want to Redeem, that's another story...Some Archangels may have trouble overlooking that you've been chopping up puppies when you weren't helping your Angel friends fight Evil. Barring that, you could be one of the Shedim who can take hosts they don't have to corrupt. Shedim of The Game, Fire, Death, Theft, or Technology, for instance. Granted, the lifetime of the first one's rather short, the second hosts find it difficult to move around, the third's usually isn't welcome in polite society, and the fifth's are very difficult to replace, should it be folded, spindled, or mutilated. It's pretty darn difficult for your standard Shedite to Redeem, overall, though ===== ><{{"> =================================================== <"}}>< ====== Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presently serving Jaraith, Shedite Baron of Nightmares, the Demon of NONONOAUUUAARRGGGHHH!!! Triad317@mypad.com | Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh maltesh@flashmail.com | In Nomine: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh/T317 ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1245 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.