From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jun 3 10:09:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07749 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:09:39 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id KAA24621 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:07:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:07:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199906031507.KAA24621@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1248 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, June 3 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1248 In this digest: Re: Shedim Jumping Ship (was: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim) IN> [ADMIN: DEAD THREAD] Re: Music Re: Shedim Jumping Ship (was: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim) Re: IN> An odd In setting IN> Re: Shedim Jumping Ship (was: Re: IN- Shedim and Lilim) IN> Geasa sizes (was Re: Shedim and Lilim) Re: Shedim Jumping Ship (was: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim) IN> The Fallen Grigori IN> Publishing Company for Sale! IN> Lilim and Geasa IN> Celestials & Etherials Re: IN> Celestials & Etherials Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim (evil story) Re: IN> Celestials & Etherials ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:24:32 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: Shedim Jumping Ship (was: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim) On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Furthermore, Sam wouldn't cause disturbance by possessing JRII and the > >shooting him(self) in the head - but he would get dissonance. > > He would -- he, the Shedite, was the one causing the shooting to happen. > He'd cause disturbance, and get dissonance. So if Angel Bob punches Sammy Shedite in the head, and at the time that head happens to belong to J.R. Hum. III, is there disturbance? I thought the old 'snap it and see' trick let you find Shedim - i.e. I thought possessed humans could be identified by the fact that, as temporary demons, breaking them doesn't cause disturbance, and if they break something else they disturb. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:42:51 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN: DEAD THREAD] Re: Music At 11:38 AM +0200 6/2/99, cd skogsberg wrote: >This is a set of recommendations, based on what music I happen to like >at the moment. YMMV, MHO, etc, blah blah. Let's. Just. Not. Go. Here. Again. Every time the "what music I like for In Nomine" thread crops up, it causes long, innumerable posts which are usually only useful for a small fraction of people who happen to share the same tastes. So, if you want to reply, take it to email. - --Beth, Demon Princess of List Admin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:48:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Shedim Jumping Ship (was: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim) At 12:24 PM +0100 6/2/99, Steve Jessop wrote: >On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> >Furthermore, Sam wouldn't cause disturbance by possessing JRII and the >> >shooting him(self) in the head - but he would get dissonance. >> >> He would -- he, the Shedite, was the one causing the shooting to happen. >> He'd cause disturbance, and get dissonance. > >So if Angel Bob punches Sammy Shedite in the head, and at the time that >head happens to belong to J.R. Hum. III, is there disturbance? Yes. >I thought the old 'snap it and see' trick let you find Shedim Nope. The body is natural in the corporeal realm -- the actions it performs are not. So you can spot a Shedite by breaking its arm (disturbance) and then convincing it to break something else (disturbance). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:37:24 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> An odd In setting (This bounced...) >From: "Hydrax 59" >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> An odd In setting >Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 04:12:47 PDT > > >>Well, it was just a thought. > >Actually, I liked it. If you ever type it up, can you tell me? It would be >interesting to see them transposed to In. > >Hydrax > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:50:42 PDT From: "Micheal Knight" Subject: IN> Re: Shedim Jumping Ship (was: Re: IN- Shedim and Lilim) >I thought the old 'snap it and see' trick let you find Shedim - i.e. I >thought possessed humans could be identified by the fact that, as >temporary demons, breaking them doesn't cause disturbance, and if they >break something else they disturb. This is true, I suspect. I still think the "snap it and see" trick remains among the DUMBEST ideas I've ever heard. I don't think going around whacking everyone you suspect of being an angel or demon is going to let you blend into mortal society really well. *grin* Micheal _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:32:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: IN> Geasa sizes (was Re: Shedim and Lilim) On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Kevin Walsh wrote: > The way I run things, the > > victim gets a choice - he doesn't =have= to accept the Lilim's favour. If > > she gives him 40K to get his company out of debt he can give it right > > =back=. No hook. Just how naive does a human have to be to think someone > > is going to give him 40K for =nothing= or for a truly =small= favour? > > Very few. Donations of a £1 for bus fare, on the other hand, won't be > thought about twice. But that'll get you at most a Geas/1. AFAIK (IMC at least), a Geas/1 is nothing...it gets you a small favor. "Hey, I need a ride downtown," is a Lilim calling in a Geas/1, or "Hey, I need some help changing a tire." Hell, half the time I don't even make PCs write down their Geasa/1; it's always so minor that the NPCs (if human) rarely even bother to resist. Now, STACKING Geasa is bad news...per canon, a Lilim could give a guy bus fare a few times over the course of a month, then demand that he act as an alibi for a murder case! IMC, I fix that by allowing Geasa to be stacked by adding together *the time increments*. So it takes 24 Geasa/1 to make a single Geas/2 (which works perfectly IMO...a Geas/2 is where they start to get somewhat *useful*), or four Geasa/3 can be used as a Geasa/4 (as can three Geasa/3 and 7 Geasa/2). This has made stacking fair and somewhat useful IMC, as it's mainly used with the higher-level Geasa. I do allow Lilim to stack their Geasa/6 to get Geasa/7 or higher... IMC, that's the only way you can get an 'average person' to kill for you. A Geas/7 for someone he dislikes, a Geas/8 for someone he doesn't know, and a Geas/9 for a loved one. (Reduce all levels by 1 for a disgruntled, violent ex-soldier, or by 2 for an actual psychopath.) Now, I don't run it in reverse for splitting up Geasa. A Lilim with a Geas/6 on a person can decide to just call in a Geas/3... after which she'll have a Geas/3 hook on that person. This way a single Geas/6 doesn't turn into 365 Geasa/2... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ::: Or go to http://www.cris.com/~pkitty (hell, go there anyways!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:51:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: Shedim Jumping Ship (was: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim) On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Steve Jessop wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > He would -- he, the Shedite, was the one causing the shooting to happen. > > He'd cause disturbance, and get dissonance. > > So if Angel Bob punches Sammy Shedite in the head, and at the time that > head happens to belong to J.R. Hum. III, is there disturbance? Yes, absolutely. > I thought the old 'snap it and see' trick let you find Shedim - i.e. I > thought possessed humans could be identified by the fact that, as > temporary demons, breaking them doesn't cause disturbance, and if they > break something else they disturb. Half-right. A possessed human causes disturbance if they break something, but if you break them, there's disturbance as well. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ::: Or go to http://www.cris.com/~pkitty (hell, go there anyways!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:33:01 +0100 From: Molt Subject: IN> The Fallen Grigori Reading through the basic rule book I spotted a nice 'plot niche', the Grigori were cast out and yet there was not a Band which corresponded to the Fallen Grigori. As the plot line is now almost at an end in my campaign (My PCs sometimes read this list) I thought I'd post my idea of this Band. They're intended to be used as NPCs so the writeup isn't as thorough as it may be. The way I used this Band was to have a small group of them posing as Soldiers of both sides of the War and using their position to damage both sides, ultimately trying to remove all the forces of Hell and Heaven from the area so they could deal with humanity as they choose. I won't be picking up mail for a few days but when I do I'll be interested to see what others on the list thought of the idea, and seeing anyone else's ideas on the lack of the Fallen Grigori. DARK GRIGORI "The Parasites" Intro After the Grigori were Outcast some, viewing God's judgment as flawed, became disillusioned and Fell. Foreswearing the influence of God and Lucifer they turned their gifts against the Host, the Horde, and all the mortals they'd sworn to protect. Bitter and angry they lash out at that they'd once sworn to protect, the home and the church. They don't hate the other demons, but hold no respect for them and see that their goal may well be better suited if they can manipulate both sides against the middle rather than forming any alliances. Hiding in the breast of humanity they hold roles that help further their plans. Gathered into loose networks they rely only on each other, they believe no one outside their Band knows the pain of being cast out for no reason whatsoever. The most powerful of the Dark Grigori act as mentors, teaching Songs, Rites, and a special Attunement (See Resonance below). Resonance Closer to the humans they swore to protect than even the Impudites the Dark Grigori are capable of using this similarity to mask their effect upon the Symphony. By concentrating for a period they're able to assume the nature of a human in a way similar to Asmodeus' "Humanity" attunement. Without making Noise they advance their own plots, working on a large time-scale in their struggle against the God which refused them any hope of Redemption. A useful ability which is also traded amongst the Dark Grigori (Treat as an Attunement which can only be granted by a few of the most powerful Dark Grigori) is the ability to 'bank' essence in Limbo. Basically by spending five Essence they arrive in Limbo to find two of the Essence there waiting for them, the other three lost to the Symphony. It is in this way they avoid the long, soul-searing wait in Limbo whilst building a vessel. Dissonance Thr Dark Grigori are fearful of being discovered. It is dissonant for any of these demons to be gather attention to themselves by revealing their true (God-given) name, or the true name of their Band to anyone outside their Band, or to make a Celestial noise as loud, or louder than that of killing a human (10pts). Manner and Appearance In their celestial form the Dark Grigori still have the gigantic appearance of the original Grigori. They cowl their giant forms with dark robes, hiding the welt marks that formed on their flawless flesh when God turned away from them. In human form they tend to be smaller and nondescript, changing vessels to keep their existance secret. They're always the face on the edge of the crowd, the whispering voice, and the power behind the throne. Musically they consider themselves choreographers, other's dance to their whim ending in a way which allows the next dance to be more majestic and effective. Game Mechanics To change from their true celestial nature to their human nature, or visa versa, requires a Will roll. The actual change takes 10-CD minutes during which they make Celestial noise and have the limitations described below apply to their song usage. They can cancel the conversion during the change by making another will roll to resume their previous state, but to change will require a completely new attempt. The human form is similar to a human. All statistics higher than 10 are temporarily reduced to ten for all usage apart from calculating Hits. They can select either Corporeal Songs, or Ethereal Songs as the change is made and they are only able to use Songs of this nature. They do make noise from Songs and Essence expenditure when in human form, but do not create noise by damaging items, killing people and so forth. They are also capable of mating with humans freely in this form, giving rise to more of the monsterous Nephalim. Molt ... Demon of Stupid Questions, eating dissonance from writing something vaguely creative... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 99 14:01:18 EST From: PublishingCoforsale@mailcity.com Subject: IN> Publishing Company for Sale! See information about Free Credit Application Below! 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Groome V -- "Amo Nympham" Web Developer, AN Consulting / Producer, Broken Glass Productions nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11340261 http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9651 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" - -Stabbing Westward, ACF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 20:37:59 -0500 From: "Mason Kramer" Subject: IN> Celestials & Etherials Okay, so there's lots of material available about what happens when Celestials have intimate relations with mortals, and a similar amount about Etherials and mortals. So, enquiring minds want to know what sort of results would result from a mating of Celestials and Etherials? (Why, no, this isn't an issue in an ongoing campaign. Really. Not a bit.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 19:48:27 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Celestials & Etherials Our spies report that on 08:37 PM 6/2/99 -0500, Mason Kramer said: >Okay, so there's lots of material available about what happens when >Celestials have intimate relations with mortals, and a similar amount about >Etherials and mortals. So, enquiring minds want to know what sort of results >would result from a mating of Celestials and Etherials? > >(Why, no, this isn't an issue in an ongoing campaign. Really. Not a bit.) > On a spiritual level, I presume it's just like Celestials and Celestials. You need a Superior to make a new being out of donated Forces. Presumably what kind you get depends on whether Odin or Eli did it. Or they might just not be compatible. In flesh-bodies, I'm not at all sure what happens if BOTH are in vessels and BOTH use the Songs of Fruition. I would tend to think either it wouldn't work since they two aren't compatible and the Song isn't made for that, or else it would produce something pretty messed up... Sean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 21:26:42 PDT From: Hydrax 59 Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Hilary wrote: Hydrax wrote: >Personally I would not find that easy. It depends, at least a bit, >on >what you, personally, hate. Not really, you just have to take away all teh association and let it fester in your stomach for a while. And then release it on the world in general. If you do do this, however, you have to take a great deal of care to get rid of that anger when you finish. There can be ... unfortuanate occurances if you don't. >If I did that, I'd end up playing a Malakite - probably working for > >Gabriel. Who is continuosly commiting one of the Seven Deadlies? Wrath and obscene power levels do not mix well, and anyone in heaven who is too full of fate will eventually start to act, selfishly, upon that fate. Then they're catching an express elevator to a warmer climate. > Selfishness is no problem - I can enjoy playing selfish. Hatred, >for >me, is a concept almost as difficult as 'evil'. Then how about anger? after all, hatred is just anger that's been distilled (sort of an evil wine really [I've got this image of hatred in a bottle stuck in my head]) >Still, thanks for the insight - it's a good answer. Glad I could help. Hydrax P.S. I'm not usually this angry at the world, I've just had a really bad week. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 21:36:09 PDT From: Hydrax 59 Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim (evil story) Here's the story that's influenced my take on evil, and selfishness. "Hello, friends. Can I call you friends? I'd like that. I'd like that very much. You may be asking yourself, "Now, why does this guy want to call me 'friend'? We've never met before." But you see, that's where you're wrong. You've met me before, or someone like me. That's because I'm a winner, friend. I used to be meek and mild. I used to care what other people thought about me. I went to the office Monday through Friday, nine to five. I went to Church on Sundays. I even collected stamps. I was a pretty dull fellow. But one day a woman came up to me just like I'm coming up to you. And that woman said, "Hello, friend," just like I did to you. And do you know what else she told me, friends? She told me the Truth. Now I'm not talking about a small "t" truth here; I'm talking about a capital "T," eternal verity, Truth. She said, "Friend, what are you doing with your life? Are you happy? Are you fulfilled?" And I had to answer no, I was not happy. I was not fulfilled. She asked me, "Do you feel like you are doing something worthwhile with your life?" And I looked long and hard at my life, at my wife and two boys, at my job at the bank, at fifty-two Sundays of every year spent at Church, listening to some guy talking about how the meek inherit the Earth and how we're all supposed to turn the other cheek, and I answered, "No. No, I do not feel like I am doing something worthwhile with my life." And then do you know what she did? I'll tell you what that kind, wonderful woman did. She leaned in real close, and then, when I was listening with all my heart, waiting with all my soul for her words, she slapped me. That's right. She hit me dead on the side of the face. And she said, "Does that make you angry? Does that make you mad?" And believe me friends, I was plenty sore, but I still was not a violent man; I was still meek and mild, a lamb walking in the lions' den. So she slapped me again and again. "Does that make you angry, you worm? Does that make you mad, you loser?" And then I snapped, and I hit back, and do you know what friends? Do you know what I found out when I finally let go? It. Felt. Good. Now I know you don't want to believe me here, friends. I know you're thinking, "I could never do that." But you're wrong, friends. You do have that strength, believe me. All your life, since kindergarten, They've been telling you lies. Share your toys. Be a good boy. Don't hurt the weak. Do as you're told. But you're wearing chains, friends. Chains They fastened to your neck a long time ago. Chains you didn't even know you had. You know the enemy's name, friends. The Angels. Who succeeds in this world, friends? Who gets the best jobs? The most money? The beautiful sex partners? The ruthless. The callous. The Strong. Do you think Rupert Murdoch ever said, "That's all right, you go ahead, you deserve it more than I do"? Do you think Bill Gates ever told his competitors, "There's plenty of this money to go around, why don't you have some, too"? Do you think Ronald Reagan ever said, "I'm sorry"? No, no, and no. They knew what they wanted, and they got it. They focused on their goals, and they achieved them. And they didn't give a damn who got in the way. Now some of you are probably thinking, "This is immoral and unethical." That's the sheep in you thinking. That's the fear talking. Be stronger than that, friends. The enemy wants you to believe that we're the enemy, but that's just another set of chains. We're here to help you, friends. Do you know what? We even want you to join us. All you have to do is throw off their chains. Stand free. Stop serving your Angelic Masters and start serving yourself. Our Lords of Light need your help to overthrow the Angelic slavery that's ruined so many Celestials. Come and stand with us, friends. Stand tall. Stand proud. Join us in Hell." I can so see a Balseraph saying this. Hydrax 59 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:06:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Celestials & Etherials At 8:37 PM -0500 6/2/99, Mason Kramer wrote: >Okay, so there's lots of material available about what happens when >Celestials have intimate relations with mortals, and a similar amount about >Etherials and mortals. So, enquiring minds want to know what sort of results >would result from a mating of Celestials and Etherials? > >(Why, no, this isn't an issue in an ongoing campaign. Really. Not a bit.) Whatever the GM wants. O:> Mostly, it would be infertile. It's up to the GM to decide if there's a variation of Fruition that allows such a crossbreeding to occur. Generally, though, celestials don't manage to "breed" at all without a Superior to do things with the Forces. (They're too streamlined, maybe? Instead of humans who "just growed" with their Forces all wild and tangly.) (Also, mind, I have a secondary infection from the flu I had. Don't trust my brain for a while.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1248 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.