From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jun 4 13:19:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01398 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:19:29 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA17865 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:21:03 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:21:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199906041821.NAA17865@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1249 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, June 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1249 In this digest: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Re: IN> The Fallen Grigori Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Re: IN> The Fallen Grigori IN> Re: Snap it and See Re: IN> The Fallen Grigori Re: IN> Re: Snap it and See Re: IN> Re: Snap it and See Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:13:31 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim In a message dated 5/31/99 9:31:58 AM, steelangel@cruzers.com writes: >My current game involves a male Lilim of the Media >who, working with a Shedite (it's possible) of the Media and an >Impudite of Fate and a Calabite of Wrath (my own Prince, writeup to be >posted here soon) working on Nybbas and Andre's paradigm of 'Media as >religion.' The Shedite possesses someone, the Lilim then 'frees this >poor soul from his torment' and picks up a Geas. The Impudite then helps >the poor soul offstage (stealing some Essence at the same time and later >storing it in some Reliquaries they have). The Calabite is 'hired help,' >meant to provide security and to distract the Host from this activity >for as long as possible by monkeywrenching some local religious groups >in the name of her Prince. Overall, it's going pretty well, the next big >bit of fun will come as Laurence and Dominic look into who's been >perverting the idea of Christianity. Yves may also be in on it, I haven't >decided yet. > But overall, the players enjoy RPing the demons. Yes, miracles every >Sunday night at 8, tune in and be saved. They find it fun to look at >things from the other perspective and their internecine conflicts are >also rather fun (such as the Impudite wanting to -stop- a possession or >two because it may drive a mortal away from their true, darkest fate). >Like I said, it's character acting, basically. > >- Abracax: Shedite of Riots I hate to say it, but this doesn't sound like a terribly high-contrast scenario to me. This would be more medium-to-low contrast by my lights. Mark (Sorry this reply is late, my son was rehospitalized Tuesday...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:39:10 -0400 From: Hilary Hayes Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Hydrax wrote >Not really, you just have to take away all teh association and let it fester in your stomach for a while. And then release it on the world in general. If you do do this, however, you have to take a great deal of care to get rid of that anger when you finish. There can be ... unfortuanate occurances if you don't.< That was precisely what I meant - the angle that was worrying me. Ridding oneself of anger is something that not everyone knows how to do. Snips > and anyone in heaven who is too full of fate will eventually start to act, selfishly, upon that fate. Then they're catching an express elevator to a warmer climate.< Fate or hate? After all, everyone (according to Kronos) has a fate.... Servitors of Gabriel punish the cruel. I find the idea of calmly and dispassionately punishing the cruel a lot more personally appealing than drumming up anger and hatred for the innocent. Like I said, it depends =what= you, personally, hate. > Selfishness is no problem - I can enjoy playing selfish. Hatred, >for >me, is a concept almost as difficult as 'evil'. Then how about anger? after all, hatred is just anger that's been distilled (sort of an evil wine really [I've got this image of hatred in a bottle stuck in my head])< But if you know how to put anger down, how does it get distilled into hatred. And do you have to distill? Wouldn't ordinary fermentatiion do the trick (as in sealing it up in a vessel). >P.S. I'm not usually this angry at the world, I've just had a really bad week.< Sorry to hear that. Hope things improve. Hilary ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ----------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------- Sender: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.4) with ESMTP id AAA01473 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id XAA28938 for in_nomine-l-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:28:16 -0500 Received: from hotmail.com (f226.hotmail.com [207.82.251.117]) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) with SMTP id XAA28932 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:28:12 -0500 Received: (qmail 66803 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jun 1999 04:26:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19990603042645.66802.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 203.29.192.74 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 02 Jun 1999 21:26:42 PDT X-Originating-IP: [203.29.192.74] From: Hydrax 59 To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 21:26:42 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com < ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:54:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Re: IN> The Fallen Grigori From: Molt > > Reading through the basic rule book I spotted a nice 'plot niche', the > Grigori > were cast out and yet there was not a Band which corresponded to the Fallen > Grigori. As the plot line is now almost at an end in my campaign (My PCs > sometimes read this list) I thought I'd post my idea of this Band. > I won't be picking up mail for a few days but when I do I'll be > interested to > see what others on the list thought of the idea, and seeing anyone else's > ideas on the lack of the Fallen Grigori. I had an idea on which explained why there aren't that many Fallen Grigori which tied into their closeness to humanity. The idea was that the Choir was so close to humanity that it shared a lot of humanity's nature, which meant not only being able to interbreed but also man's capacity for free will. They still had to worry about dissonance and going against their nature, but unlike other Celestials, they had the capability to spontaneously Redeem on their own, without the need for Archangelic intervention. This meant that Fallen among them could be convinced to Redeem by anyone or just eventually decide to return to the light on its own. And with less obstacles on the way to Redemption, many Grigori who fall are quickly Redeemed as their Choirmates try and help them regain what they lost. I was toying with making their closeness to humanity the nature of their Resonance, with every Grigori having the Role of Human at a level equal to their Corporeal Forces. Anything a Grigori did that a normal human could also do had a chance of not causing a disturbance. Not only that, but any normal Role a Grigori did have added the Corporeal Forces to it twice instead of once when rolling to determine whether disturbance occured. This would explain how if any Grigori Archangels ever existed how they avoided detection, since their Corporeal Forces would be so high that they would automatically succeed in any Role Roll. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:14:27 -0500 From: Seth Buntain Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim >But if you know how to put anger down, how does it get distilled into >hatred. And do you have to distill? Wouldn't ordinary fermentatiion do >the trick (as in sealing it up in a vessel). Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate... Hate leads to Suffering... Sorry, couldnt resist. - -- Seth Buntain Northwestern University enthar@nwu.edu "Magic is always the best solution, especially reliable magic." - -from the program 'fortune'. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:43:50 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Fallen Grigori At 1:54 PM -0500 6/3/99, Benjamin Acosta wrote: >From: Molt > > > > Reading through the basic rule book I spotted a nice 'plot niche', the > > Grigori > > were cast out and yet there was not a Band which corresponded to the Fallen > > Grigori. As the plot line is now almost at an end in my campaign (My PCs > > sometimes read this list) I thought I'd post my idea of this Band. > > I won't be picking up mail for a few days but when I do I'll be > > interested to > > see what others on the list thought of the idea, and seeing anyone else's > > ideas on the lack of the Fallen Grigori. > >I had an idea on which explained why there aren't that many Fallen Grigori >which tied into their closeness to humanity. The idea was that the Choir >was so close to humanity that it shared a lot of humanity's nature, which >meant not only being able to interbreed but also man's capacity for free >will. They still had to worry about dissonance and going against their >nature, but unlike other Celestials, they had the capability to >spontaneously Redeem on their own, without the need for Archangelic >intervention. This meant that Fallen among them could be convinced to >Redeem by anyone or just eventually decide to return to the light on its >own. And with less obstacles on the way to Redemption, many Grigori who >fall are quickly Redeemed as their Choirmates try and help them regain >what they lost. > >I was toying with making their closeness to humanity the nature of their >Resonance, with every Grigori having the Role of Human at a level equal to >their Corporeal Forces. Anything a Grigori did that a normal human could >also do had a chance of not causing a disturbance. Not only that, but any >normal Role a Grigori did have added the Corporeal Forces to it twice >instead of once when rolling to determine whether disturbance occured. >This would explain how if any Grigori Archangels ever existed how they >avoided detection, since their Corporeal Forces would be so high that they >would automatically succeed in any Role Roll. Oo -- I *like* this. It goes a long way to explain how the Watchers have walked among us for essentially ever, neither in Heaven nor in Hell but on Earth, without people tracking them down. They're off the radar. Of course, I figure a good number of Grigori are in Limbo, waiting... and waiting... and waiting.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 19:22:50 PDT From: Hydrax 59 Subject: IN> Re: Snap it and See > >I thought the old 'snap it and see' trick let you find Shedim - i.e. I > >thought possessed humans could be identified by the fact that, as > >temporary demons, breaking them doesn't cause disturbance, and if they > >break something else they disturb. > >This is true, I suspect. I still think the "snap it and see" trick >remains among the DUMBEST ideas I've ever heard. I don't think going >around whacking everyone you suspect of being an angel or demon is >going to let you blend into mortal society really well. *grin* Not really, just depends on your role. Imagine teh damage you could get up to with Soccer Fan/6. And if you do know them, just go, say "Hey, how are you?" and give them a friendly punch on the arm. No disturbance = quite a big talk with you and a couple of friends. Tall friends. Tall black friends with wings. Tall black friends with wings and oath chains. Tall black friends with wings and oath chains and *$&(ing big weapons. (I could go on, but I won't) Hydrax ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 19:30:53 PDT From: Hydrax 59 Subject: Re: IN> The Fallen Grigori I like it. Very ... paranoia inducing. (not the game, the mental condition) When I spring it on my players, I can just see them spending hours verifying that, yes, he's human. "but can you be sure?" Hydrax, who loves driving players to their Fa... er, fantastically fun time. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:18:03 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Snap it and See In a message dated 6/4/99 2:25:12 AM, hydrax@hotmail.com writes: >Not really, just depends on your role. Imagine the damage you could get >up >to with Soccer Fan/6. And if you do know them, just go, say "Hey, how are > >you?" and give them a friendly punch on the arm. >No disturbance = quite a big talk with you and a couple of friends. >Tall friends. >Tall black friends with wings. >Tall black friends with wings and oath chains. >Tall black friends with wings and oath chains and *$&(ing big weapons. > >(I could go on, but I won't) > >Hydrax > > Except for two things: First, you need to do four points of damage to get one point of disturbance. Second, you add the level of your role to your corporeal forces to get the target number for muffling something done "in the role." I would think a Soccer Fan(/6) would be a role that would be punching blokes in the arm a lot. So, assuming a 3 corp. force celestial, that's a target of 9 to muffle. Mark (Who loves the silence a role/6 with 6 corp. forces gives...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:59:45 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Re: Snap it and See On Fri, 4 Jun 1999 MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > Mark (Who loves the silence a role/6 with 6 corp. forces gives...) Damn straight. Role/6 Status/1 "Witch Hunter"... No, really, it's not a rules abuse. It just only costs 3 points. And gives you a skill/6 in Occult Knowledge (How to be a Witch hunter). Especially god for servitors of Belial, since it's always an excuse to set angels and Soldiers of God on fire. Steve. - ------ It takes great courage to look at the world in all its tainted glory, and to love it. - - Oscar Wilde, An Ideal Husband ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 11:21:18 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > I hate to say it, but this doesn't sound like a terribly high-contrast > scenario to me. This would be more medium-to-low contrast by my lights. > > Mark (Sorry this reply is late, my son was rehospitalized Tuesday...) Howso? Maybe I'm vague on the notion of 'contrast', but just because the shedite hasn't picked up a chainsaw yet doesn't mean the demons aren't being -terribly- selfish. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1249 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.