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in_nomine-digest        Saturday, June 5 1999        Volume 01 : Number 1250



In this digest:

   Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim
   Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim
   IN> Role: Witch Hunter
   IN> Calabim question
   Re: IN> Role: Witch Hunter
   Re: IN> Calabim question
   Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim
   Re: IN> Lilim and Geasa
   Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim
   Re: IN> Calabim question
   Re: IN> Role: Witch Hunter
   IN> Angel of Forensics
   IN> 'Dream Stories' and a question
   Re: IN> 'Dream Stories' and a question
   Re: IN> Angel of Forensics
   IN> Roles (Apologies to David Edelstein)
   Re: IN> 'Dream Stories' and a question
   Re: IN> Roles (Apologies to David Edelstein)
   Re: IN> 'Dream Stories' and a question
   Re: IN> Roles (Apologies to David Edelstein)
   Re: IN> Angel of Forensics

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:06:25 EDT
From: MarkDEddy@aol.com
Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim

In a message dated 6/4/99 6:21:30 PM, steelangel@cruzers.com writes:

>MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote:
>
><snip my campaign idea>
>
>> I hate to say it, but this doesn't sound like a terribly high-contrast
>> scenario to me. This would be more medium-to-low contrast by my lights.
>> 
>>         Mark (Sorry this reply is late, my son was rehospitalized 
Tuesday...)
>
>	Howso? Maybe I'm vague on the notion of 'contrast,' but just because
>the Shedite hasn't picked up a chainsaw yet doesn't mean the demons
>aren't being -terribly- selfish.
>
>- Abracax: Shedite of Riots
>
Selfish, perhaps. Demonic? I don't see it. How does this group drag people to 
Hell? The setup you describe works for a starter to a high contrast game, but 
it's all in what happens next. What does the Lilim do with those geases? How 
does he make sure he gets the right Need? Is he living the high life on the 
back of his inferiors? How does he treat his servitor/fan? What does the 
Impudite do with his essence? How many souls has he influenced to their 
fates? What does the Shedite make his hosts do that is 'evil' or 
'despicable?' What is his 'act of selfishness that indisputably harms 
someone'? How much fun does he have? How much fun does the Calabite have just 
destroying things? Does he ever destroy the plans of his fellow players in a 
fit of wrath? Does he destroy people as well as places and things? 

On top of that, how do faith healers *that actually stop posessions* affect 
anything negatively, even with the Geas and the essence drain (0-2 points, 
usually...)? I really don't see the dark shadows of hellish selfishness in 
the description you gave.

With the same set of characters as described, a high-contrast campaign might 
be set in a gameshow, "You bet your soul!" The lilim and the Shedite work as 
assistants to the Impudite on a set where people degrade themselves further 
and further to get more prizes. At any time, they can attempt to challenge 
'the masked challenger' (the Calabite) to a contest (usually destructive) in 
order to avoid further degradation. The lilim can use his resonance to 
discover Needs that he can provide as prizes, the Shedite can possess one of 
the contestants to get his thrills, and the Impudite Charms victims with his 
knowledge of their past (if he also has Fated Future, he can also work to 
tailor prizes to the victims, using essence he has drained from them). And, 
most important, the mortals are begging to be visciously abused and degraded 
so that they can win ephemeral trinkets on broadcast TV.

And you can role-play every excruciating minute of the talking monkey's 
humiliation.

	Mark (Not bad for only a minute's thought, eh?)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:21:12 -0400
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim

At 11:21 AM -0700 6/4/99, Steel Angel wrote:
>MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote:
>
><snip my campaign idea>
>
>> I hate to say it, but this doesn't sound like a terribly high-contrast
>> scenario to me. This would be more medium-to-low contrast by my lights.
>> 
>>         Mark (Sorry this reply is late, my son was rehospitalized Tuesday...)
>
>	Howso? Maybe I'm vague on the notion of 'contrast', but just because
>the shedite hasn't picked up a chainsaw yet doesn't mean the demons
>aren't being -terribly- selfish.

I believe that as the terms have crept into use, that "high contrast"
is where you start bandying about the terms "good" and "evil," possibly
with captital letters. Demons are very, very nasty, and hardly ever
have even favored human "pets." Angels are upstanding and righteous and
whatnot.

Low-contrast _definitely_ gets rid of "good" and "evil" as more than
maybe lables, and uses selfishness -- and even demons will have their
good sides, usually. Some angels are more jerks than some demons. (Just
read Bright Dream for that...)

Mid-contrast falls at various points in the middle. O:>

But then, I've only just gotten over a secondary flu infection, so
take what I say with a few grains of salt.

Mmmmm, salt.

(Psst, EDG -- with napkin!)


- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:27:04 -0400
From: David Edelstein <AmadanSJG@compuserve.com>
Subject: IN> Role: Witch Hunter

>>>Damn straight. Role/6 Status/1 "Witch Hunter"...

Of course, in modern times, killing anyone but a real witch will either
make a disturbance or get your Role convicted. And with Status/1, that
won't take long.

>>>No, really, it's not a rules abuse. It just only costs 3 points. And
gives
you a skill/6 in Occult Knowledge (How to be a Witch hunter). <<<

No, you get Skill/6 in "How to be a Witch hunter," which is not at all the
same thing as Occult Knowledge/6. A witch hunter can be (and probably is) a
crazy lunatic whose understanding of the occult is limited to folklore and
a few Bible verses. If you want real occult knowledge, you have to buy it.

- -David

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:01:41 CDT
From: Wade Hursman <drakemagi@hotmail.com>
Subject: IN> Calabim question

Since I post so infrequently, I've probably missed the answer to this 
question already. But, here goes anyway!

Do characters that make up Calabim get the points for the Discord that they 
have to take for being Calabim?

Thanks!

Wade

Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.





_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:36:23 +0100 (BST)
From: Steve Jessop <stephenj@linc.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: IN> Role: Witch Hunter

My original post wasn't actually very serious. Neither is this one.

On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, David Edelstein wrote:

> Of course, in modern times, killing anyone but a real witch will either
> make a disturbance or get your Role convicted. And with Status/1, that
> won't take long.

1) Killing a fake witch won't cause disturbance, provided you are acting
like a witch hunter. How witch hunters act is left to the player and GM,
but if the GM makes the mistake of having a genuine human witch/demon
hunter (Soldier of Laurence, maybe), then you can justifiably say
'Witch hunters exist, I want a role as one...'

2) It's remarkably hard to convict someone if you have no idea who they
are, they don't show up on any records, they are faster than you and have
the ability to apparently vanish into thin air when chased into alleys
(vessel/1 cat).

I admit that's not a very stable lifestyle, but the idea in the first
place was a gratuitous excuse to cause severe damage quietly. It's no more
abusive than Role/6 private eye, which lets you fight back against
attackers (with lethal force in the US), but requires more than 1 status.

Come to think of it, PI would be ideal for a Servitor of Stone. They don't
start fights anyway, and they can defend themselves quietly. Rather out of
stereotype, unfortunately.

> >>>No, really, it's not a rules abuse. It just only costs 3 points.
> And gives you a skill/6 in Occult Knowledge (How to be a Witch
> hunter). <<<

> No, you get Skill/6 in "How to be a Witch hunter," which is not at all the
> same thing as Occult Knowledge/6. A witch hunter can be (and probably is) a
> crazy lunatic whose understanding of the occult is limited to folklore
> and a few bible verses.

That's what I meant by 'occult knowledge' - from a sceptic's viewpoint
that's all anyone's occult knowledge ever is. Our putative nutter, what
with being a celestial, is likely to be able to work out what folklore is
accurate, and therefore which human magic practices actually work. This
gives him the advantage over the average, clueless-about-sorcery,
celestial.

I did say rules 'abuse'. As in improper, incorrect, use :-)

GM can get round it by saying that a witch hunter knows the contents of
the Malleus Maleficarum, and anything else is somewhat extra-curricular
for a genuine God-fearing burner of old women.

> If you want real occult knowledge, you have to buy it.

Role/4 Status/2 'games designer' would get you that kind of info as
background research, plus the ability to write a GURPS supplement once or
twice a year.

Steve.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:48:57 -0400
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Calabim question

At 7:01 PM -0500 6/4/99, Wade Hursman wrote:
>Since I post so infrequently, I've probably missed the answer to this 
>question already. But, here goes anyway!
>
>Do characters that make up Calabim get the points for the Discord that they 
>have to take for being Calabim?

I think the answer is in either the IPG or the errata pages on the web
(www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata), and I think the answer was Yes.
However, Lilim don't. (Go ahead. 3 points per level, 9 level/3...)


- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 18:10:00 -0700
From: Steel Angel <steelangel@cruzers.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim

MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote:

> Selfish, perhaps. Demonic? I don't see it. How does this group drag people to
> Hell? The setup you describe works for a starter to a high contrast game, but
> it's all in what happens next. What does the Lilim do with those geases? How
> does he make sure he gets the right Need? Is he living the high life on the
> back of his inferiors? How does he treat his servitor/fan? What does the
> Impudite do with his essence? How many souls has he influenced to their
> fates? What does the Shedite make his hosts do that is 'evil' or
> 'despicable?' What is his 'act of selfishness that indisputably harms
> someone'? How much fun does he have? How much fun does the Calabite have just
> destroying things? Does he ever destroy the plans of his fellow players in a
> fit of wrath? Does he destroy people as well as places and things?

	Well basically, they are, overall, making people turn to a -TV Show-
for their 'religious fix'. They are eroding away the foundatio of faith
and belief in God and replacing it with an easy fix, on schedule. Why go
to church? For that matter, why view someone in pain as anything more
than an opportunity to -watch the fun-? Then there's the money that's
pouring in, smacks of papal indulgences. The Impudite gets a -great-
chance to tag people's Fates during the whole 'offstange' process and,
often, they are -again- the Shedite's victim at a later date, only
- -this- time, it gently pushes them toward their Fate before leaving.
This frees the Shedite up to move about without having to go chainsaws
and puppies on anyone. And the Lilim -does- take a nasty penalty to get
those Needs. ;) The Shedite starts subtle, making the person irritable
and nasty (keeping its Dissonance conditions up) then goes into
full-blown 'Exorcist' stuff. The fun part is, the Lilim tags the 'date
of this foul intrusion' as being -later- than the person's shift in
behavior. He then goes on about how the person wasn't 'strong enough',
eroding their confidence, as does the Impudite, setting more people on
the road to Fate. The victims of possession are afraid of another demon,
and turn to the -Lilim- and his show for guidance and their daily dose
of Hell.
	As for the Gease, no one's really decided yet, but they're adding up.
They're probably around, all told, maybe twenty-two levels of Geasa
piled up. I have to decide what Nybbas and Andre -want- next. The
Calabite spreads anger as she goes about town It's her 'thing'. Being in
a fairly attractive female human Vessel helps a lot, too, especially
near religios settings. For those who don't know, church is often a pick
up spot for the flock. A few well-placed words, some creative vandalism,
and friends fight each other, claiming that someone 'took revenge
because they were doing so well'. And of course, there's the usual
destruction of pets to create festering suspicion. She's been under
strict orders to kill no one...yet. Balhoron -can- be subtle, as long as
people are getting angry. The Lilim also helps there by aiming their
anger at other religious institutions: "Have they -really- helped you in
life? Have they -truly- helped your life become easier?" (in the selfish
way, of course, property and material success.) As for all that Essence,
that's waiting for when the angels start sniffing around.

- - Abracax: Shedite of Riots

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:09:52 -0400
From: "Kelly W. West" <kellyw@raven.cybercomm.net>
Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Geasa

Dennis H. Groome V Asked:

>something just occurred to me...could a Lilm use a Geas to induce a victim
>into taking something from
>her again to get another, possibly bigger, Geas?
>
As a GM I'd rule you could only get him to take a Geas of equal value.  As
a player I'd be tempted to try it just to see if I could.  On the other
hand I could see a Lilim using a geas task to lure a victim into a
situation that could result in a higher Geas.

Lilim:  Be a dear and run this package across town to this address.

Sucker: (Feeling the pull of a Geas/1) OK if you insist.

(An hour passes)

Sucker, bloodied and bruised crashes through the door.

Sucker: (Groaning)  Help me, they're after me.

Lilim(With a little smile):Ok, but you'll owe me.

Kelly W. West (Demon of bad scripting)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:36:21 -0400
From: "Kelly W. West" <kellyw@raven.cybercomm.net>
Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Lilim

emccoy@nh.ultranet.com wrote
>
>Low-contrast _definitely_ gets rid of "good" and "evil" as more than
>maybe lables, and uses selfishness -- and even demons will have their
>good sides, usually. Some angels are more jerks than some demons. (Just
>read Bright Dream for that...)
>
Speaking of the Dream stories, will we be seeing anymore Nicole and Marcus
stories.  I've read the 'Dreams,' the stories in LR and IPG.  I'd like to
see more of them if possible.

Kelly West

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 23:01:14 -0400
From: EDG <anthoch@earlham.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Calabim question

At 08:48 PM 6/4/99 -0400, you wrote:

>I think the answer is in either the IPG or the errata pages on the web
>(www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata), and I think the answer was Yes.
>However, Lilim don't. (Go ahead. 3 points per level, 9 level/3...)

The FAQ, actually: 
http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq/#rule-demons-calabim-004.  And yes, 
it's yes.  (It's a change from a previous FAQ, though!)

- -EDG
  and I dunno about the IPG.  Yet.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 23:11:48 -0400
From: EDG <anthoch@earlham.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Role: Witch Hunter

At 01:36 AM 6/5/99 +0100, you wrote:

>My original post wasn't actually very serious. Neither is this one.

I'll take that into account.

>1) Killing a fake witch won't cause disturbance, provided you are acting
>like a witch hunter. How witch hunters act is left to the player and GM,
>but if the GM makes the mistake of having a genuine human witch/demon
>hunter (Soldier of Laurence, maybe), then you can justifiably say
>'Witch hunters exist, I want a role as one...'

Yep, you can.  Now convince your Superior. ;)

>2) It's remarkably hard to convict someone if you have no idea who they
>are, they don't show up on any records, they are faster than you and have
>the ability to apparently vanish into thin air when chased into alleys
>(vessel/1 cat).

(If you have a Role, you show up on records.  By definition.)

>I admit that's not a very stable lifestyle, but the idea in the first
>place was a gratuitous excuse to cause severe damage quietly. It's no more
>abusive than Role/6 private eye, which lets you fight back against
>attackers (with lethal force in the US), but requires more than 1 status.

How 'bout Role/6 Demon Hunter?  (That'un's in the book.)

>That's what I meant by 'occult knowledge' - from a sceptic's viewpoint
>that's all anyone's occult knowledge ever is. Our putative nutter, what
>with being a celestial, is likely to be able to work out what folklore is
>accurate, and therefore which human magic practices actually work. This
>gives him the advantage over the average, clueless-about-sorcery,
>celestial.

Not any more than "Knowledge/6: How To Be A Politician" lets you know how 
to lie. (Remember, you have to take Lying!)

>GM can get round it by saying that a witch hunter knows the contents of
>the Malleus Maleficarum, and anything else is somewhat extra-curricular
>for a genuine God-fearing burner of old women.

Well, sure, if you want to make the GM God...

>Role/4 Status/2 'games designer' would get you that kind of info as
>background research, plus the ability to write a GURPS supplement once or
>twice a year.

Not really.  It'd just let you know that you were _supposed_ to. :)

- -EDG
  :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:58:32 -0500
From: "Dan and Dave Scheppard" <dschepp@visi.com>
Subject: IN> Angel of Forensics

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BEAE14.9A28D9E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    I was thinking of creating an angel whose role was a coroner. His =
word would be forensics. I don't know whether his superior should be =
Dominic, archangel of judgement, or Jean, archangel of lightning. Both =
make sense to a degree. Jean's attunement would be more usefull, since =
Dominic's attunement is only usefull on living people.
    Anyway, anyone have any ideas on this one?
           =20

- ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BEAE14.9A28D9E0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I was thinking of creating an =
angel whose=20
role was a coroner. His word would be forensics. I don't know whether =
his=20
superior should be Dominic, archangel of judgement, or Jean, archangel =
of=20
lightning.&nbsp;Both make sense to a degree. Jean's attunement would be =
more=20
usefull, since Dominic's attunement is only usefull on living=20
people.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Anyway, anyone have any ideas on =
this=20
one?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BEAE14.9A28D9E0--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:45:18 -0700
From: Steel Angel <steelangel@cruzers.com>
Subject: IN> 'Dream Stories' and a question

Kelly W. West wrote:

> Speaking of the Dream stories, will we be seeing anymore Nicole and Marcus
> stories.  I've read the 'Dreams,' the stories in LR and IPG.  I'd like to
> see more of them if possible.

	I, for one, am -shocked- at Nicole's behavior in the IPG's story. I'm
also surprised Tariel Fell before she did. I would think a Cherub who
lost an attuned person wouldn't be so damn overwrought because I'm
- -assuming- 'the chick' went to Heaven! Sure it hurts and yes, Tariel
failed, but it's not like she's soul killed or anything. Also, I can't
believe Tariel spent hours weeping and was unable to feel anything, it
just doesn't fit with his reaction. It's when a Cherub stops caring that
they Fall, and Tariel seemed pretty broekn up, Fallen or not. Nicole's
reaction was, by Heavenly standards, treasonous. A good friend Falls and
she -turns him over to the enemy-! If the Inquisition or Gabriel ever
find out, she'll be brought up to Heaven on charges so fast she'll be
convicted two days before her halo catches up. Then there was that
failed opportunity to help someone 'being cruel to himself' (Marcus) and
she obviously -did- care for him still, but she didn't say the words
that might have helped him take his first baby steps toward Redemption.
It's like she -wants- to help Hell, or, more to the point, she's seeing
her friends and their happiness (an thus, by proxy, her own) as more
important than the Symphony and Heaven's cause. It's been said before
and I'll say it again, she's an Impudite waiting to happen. 
	Now for my question. My local gaming store hasn't any copies of Heaven
and Hell and, running a game with Kronos as a Superior, I wonder what
was meant in the IPG by saying that Kronos's classification as a
Balseraph is a lie. Then what -is- he and does it have any important
ramifications I should be aware of?

- - Abracax: Shedite of Riots

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:24:19 -0500
From: Shadowstar <shadowstar@centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re: IN> 'Dream Stories' and a question

At 4:45 AM -0700 6/5/99, Steel Angel wrote:
<snippage of bad-naughty Niccole>

>	Now for my question. My local gaming store hasn't any copies of Heaven
>and Hell and, running a game with Kronos as a Superior, I wonder what
>was meant in the IPG by saying that Kronos's classification as a
>Balseraph is a lie.

   Yes, but Balseraphs -cannot- lie.  They just see the Truth from a
certain point of view.

> Then what -is- he and does it have any important ramifications I should
>be aware of?

   Definitely.  So, therefore you need to go out and order the book online.
. .  From either Amazon.com or directly from SJGames. . .  *grin*

   (You were expecting me to tell you?  *grin*  Let's just say this, Kronos
- -is- Fate).

Be seeing you,

- - Tafka J.
= shadowstar@centuryinter.net
# Technomancer, Six of Nine.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 10:01:41 -0400
From: Jerry & Virginia Phillips <vphilli@erols.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Forensics

- --------------38B4ADCA098BE3E43E5C94A2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello - my brother is on this list, but I am on a forensics list, so
this message came to me instead of him. In my humble,
I-know-nothing-about-this-game-opinion, this would fall under Dominic,
Archangel of Judgement, or under an angel of Justice.  Forensics is
about identification, which would (I assume) precede Judgement. Thank
you for letting me babble, and I promise to mind my own business in the
future! (*G*)
Catherine - the Forensic Anthropologist Wanna-Be

Dan and Dave Scheppard wrote:

>     I was thinking of creating an angel whose role was a coroner. His
> word would be forensics. I don't know whether his superior should be
> Dominic, archangel of judgement, or Jean, archangel of lightning. Both
> make sense to a degree. Jean's attunement would be more usefull, since
> Dominic's attunement is only usefull on living people.    Anyway,
> anyone have any ideas on this one?

- --------------38B4ADCA098BE3E43E5C94A2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
Hello - my brother is on this list, but I am on a forensics list, so this
message came to me instead of him. In my humble, I-know-nothing-about-this-game-opinion,
this would fall under Dominic, Archangel of Judgement, or under an angel
of Justice.&nbsp; Forensics is about identification, which would (I assume)
precede Judgement. Thank you for letting me babble, and I promise to mind
my own business in the future! (*G*)
<BR>Catherine - the Forensic Anthropologist Wanna-Be
<P>Dan and Dave Scheppard wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
I was thinking of creating an angel whose role was a coroner. His word
would be forensics. I don't know whether his superior should be Dominic,
archangel of judgement, or Jean, archangel of lightning. Both make sense
to a degree. Jean's attunement would be more usefull, since Dominic's attunement
is only usefull on living people.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Anyway, anyone have any ideas on this one?</FONT>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>

</BODY>
</HTML>

- --------------38B4ADCA098BE3E43E5C94A2--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 10:39:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: gantr@NKU.EDU
Subject: IN> Roles (Apologies to David Edelstein)

On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, EDG wrote:

> (If you have a Role, you show up on records.  By definition.)

Well, that's generally wht it says in the (really excellent - I'll review
it and rave about it for the list at a later date) Corporeal Player's
Guide.  Unfortunatly, I'm not entirely convinced about that.  I can think
of several Roles which would have minimal records at best.

Mercurian of Jordi with a Level/6 Status/2 Role as the neighborhood stray
cat.  You know, the one that wanders around, doesn't claim to be owned by
anyone, but everyone recognizes and feeds (and if you can't think of the
usefulness of that Role to a Mercurian or a Servitor of Jordi, you're not
half trying).  It's a very real Role, but what records should/could/would
it have?

Seraph of Destiny with a Level/4 Status/1 Role as a homeless kid in
Brazil (I think that's the one where the police will just round up the
homeless kids and "dispose" of them - corrections please, if I've got the
wrong one).  These kids don't *have* records.

Sure the records can be important to a Role, but they don't *define* the
Role.  Except in certain cases.  However, a Role can expect to pick up
records as time goes on, especially if it's in an industrailized nation.

(Oh, if this has already been addressed in the CPG, then my apologies for
missing it.  I only skimmed that section.)

Richard Gant
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit my web page:  
Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656>
Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 10:46:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: gantr@NKU.EDU
Subject: Re: IN> 'Dream Stories' and a question

On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, Shadowstar wrote:

>    (You were expecting me to tell you?  *grin*  Let's just say this, Kronos
> -is- Fate).

That's unusual?  I was under the impression (strong enough that I've made
it canon in my game, anyway) that Archangels and Demon Princes *are* their
Words anyway.  Michael *is* War.  Baal *is* The War.  

Richard Gant
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit my web page:  
Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656>
Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:04:18 -0400
From: EDG <anthoch@earlham.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Roles (Apologies to David Edelstein)

At 10:39 AM 6/5/99 -0400, you wrote:

>Mercurian of Jordi with a Level/6 Status/2 Role as the neighborhood stray
>cat.  You know, the one that wanders around, doesn't claim to be owned by
>anyone, but everyone recognizes and feeds (and if you can't think of the
>usefulness of that Role to a Mercurian or a Servitor of Jordi, you're not
>half trying).  It's a very real Role, but what records should/could/would
>it have?

Remember that records aren't necessarily written.  No, there are no 
_papers_ for said cat - but if it suddenly disappeared, _everyone_ would 
notice, and probably everyone in the neighborhood could give you a detailed 
description of it (especially at Status/2).  Those are records just as much 
as any piece of paper.

>Seraph of Destiny with a Level/4 Status/1 Role as a homeless kid in
>Brazil (I think that's the one where the police will just round up the
>homeless kids and "dispose" of them - corrections please, if I've got the
>wrong one).  These kids don't *have* records.

I'm uncertain of the usefulness of this role - but if it's a Role, then 
it's implanted in society.  The kid will have parents (deceased or not), 
and he will be noticed if he disappears, if only by the other homeless 
folks who are wondering what's happened to him.

>Sure the records can be important to a Role, but they don't *define* the
>Role.  Except in certain cases.  However, a Role can expect to pick up
>records as time goes on, especially if it's in an industrailized nation.

I never said they defined a Role; I said the Role has them by 
definition.  Subtle difference, but it's there. :)

>(Oh, if this has already been addressed in the CPG, then my apologies for
>missing it.  I only skimmed that section.)

I dunno, I haven't got my copy yet. :)

- -EDG

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:28:46 -0400
From: EDG <anthoch@earlham.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> 'Dream Stories' and a question

At 04:45 AM 6/5/99 -0700, you wrote:

(I apologize for the dates on these - I just realized they were screwy. :(

>just doesn't fit with his reaction. It's when a Cherub stops caring that
>they Fall, and Tariel seemed pretty broekn up, Fallen or not. Nicole's

Djinn _do_ care.   They care a lot.  It's just that they can't let anyone 
know about it.

(Note, please, that I have yet to read the IPG's Dream story, so this may 
be off.)

Consider:  A Cherub loses someone to whom he's attuned.  That Cherub is 
totally torn up about this - whether he's a new Cherub or just really, 
really attached to the person.  He gets over it... and decides that /never 
again/ will he be so attached to someone, and /never again/ will he let his 
emotions get the better of him like that.  Caring about his charges 
interferes with his duties - so he doesn't let it show.  And slowly, he 
becomes more and more angry at his charges because they're so /willing/, so 
/eager/ to force him to care about them.  He resents them.  He despises 
them, even at the same time as he cares about them... and he Falls.

>         Now for my question. My local gaming store hasn't any copies of 
> Heaven
>and Hell and, running a game with Kronos as a Superior, I wonder what
>was meant in the IPG by saying that Kronos's classification as a
>Balseraph is a lie. Then what -is- he and does it have any important
>ramifications I should be aware of?

Kronos's classification as a Balseraph is kind of like Yves's 
classification as a Seraph... and that's all I can tell you, friend Citizen.

- -EDG

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:51:10 -0400
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Roles (Apologies to David Edelstein)

At 10:39 AM -0400 6/5/99, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote:
>On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, EDG wrote:
>
> > (If you have a Role, you show up on records.  By definition.)
>
>Well, that's generally wht it says in the (really excellent - I'll review
>it and rave about it for the list at a later date) Corporeal Player's
>Guide.  Unfortunatly, I'm not entirely convinced about that.  I can think
>of several Roles which would have minimal records at best.
>
>Mercurian of Jordi with a Level/6 Status/2 Role as the neighborhood stray
>cat.  You know, the one that wanders around, doesn't claim to be owned by
>anyone, but everyone recognizes and feeds (and if you can't think of the
>usefulness of that Role to a Mercurian or a Servitor of Jordi, you're not
>half trying).  It's a very real Role, but what records should/could/would
>it have?
>
>Seraph of Destiny with a Level/4 Status/1 Role as a homeless kid in
>Brazil (I think that's the one where the police will just round up the
>homeless kids and "dispose" of them - corrections please, if I've got the
>wrong one).  These kids don't *have* records.
>
>Sure the records can be important to a Role, but they don't *define* the
>Role.  Except in certain cases.  However, a Role can expect to pick up
>records as time goes on, especially if it's in an industrailized nation.
>
>(Oh, if this has already been addressed in the CPG, then my apologies for
>missing it.  I only skimmed that section.)

Hm....

Let me elaborate on the original sentence, and see if this becomes 
more all inclusive....

If you have a Role, you are connected to the Symphony even as your 
Role would be.  Which means that you appear in appropriate records as 
needed to support your existence.  Which means if your Role is Cougar 
in the woods, there are reports of cougar sightings and evidence of 
cougar-prey and scat in the local forest service.  If your Role is 
"Neighborhood stray cat," there would be police notice and animal 
control notice, suspicions of neighborhood involvement in keeping him 
out of the shelters, and so forth.  And I think even a homeless kid 
in Brazil, if he has a Level/4 Role as it, would have a birth 
certificate in some disreputable doctor's filing cabinent.

On the other hand, a "role" that has no records or ties whatsoever 
just isn't a role.  Just having a bobcat vessel isn't a Role, because 
it doesn't define you to society and the symphony.  That's just a 
bobcat vessel.  Connecting to society and the symphony requires 
connections.


- --
Eric Alfred Burns                   It was then I felt my heart break like a
in-sabre@annotations.com        fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of
http://www.annotations.com        Reality -- and it's been broken ever since.
http://www.annotations.com/~journal                           --Johnny Bravo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:07:50 -0500
From: "Amo Nympham" <nallix@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Forensics

what about an angel of Litheroy?  a coroner reveals how the deceased came to
their end.  only problem would be that angels of Litheroy may not take
roles.

Dennis H. Groome V -- "Amo Nympham"
Web Developer, AN Consulting / Producer, Broken Glass Productions
nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11340261
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9651
"I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me"
- -Stabbing Westward, ACF
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dan and Dave Scheppard <dschepp@visi.com>
    To: In Nomine list <in_nomine-l@lists.io.com>
    Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 1:44 AM
    Subject: IN> Angel of Forensics


        I was thinking of creating an angel whose role was a coroner. His
word would be forensics. I don't know whether his superior should be
Dominic, archangel of judgement, or Jean, archangel of lightning. Both make
sense to a degree. Jean's attunement would be more usefull, since Dominic's
attunement is only usefull on living people.
        Anyway, anyone have any ideas on this one?

------------------------------

End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1250
********************************

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