From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jun 9 12:36:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03463 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:36:38 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA30230 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:36:56 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:36:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199906091736.MAA30230@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1253 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, June 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1253 In this digest: IN> Vessels IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1252 Re: IN> Vessels Re: IN> Vessels Re: IN> Vessels IN> Fiat Justitia IN> Balseraphs of the Media.... Re: IN> Fiat Justitia IN> And the Bands Played On: Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1252 Re: IN> And the Bands Played On: Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 08:55:08 -0400 From: Jason Terlecki Subject: IN> Vessels This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------779CD1F7DF968A38ED941B44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do know that celestials can has children with mundanes (just look at the Nephalim), but can a Female Vessel carry a child? What of the child? Would he be born 1/2 divine (extra forces) or should you expect some kind of Monster? Jason Terlecki - --------------779CD1F7DF968A38ED941B44 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="bancroft.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Jason Terlecki Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="bancroft.vcf" begin:vcard n:Terlecki;Jason tel;fax:514-281-6599 tel;work:514-281-7500 ext 300 Français / 301 English x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.supernet.ca/ org:Delphi Supernet;Service à la clientèle / Customer Service version:2.1 email;internet:support@supernet.ca title:technicien / technician adr;quoted-printable:;;2055 Peel Street=0D=0Asuite 710;Montreal;Québec;H3A 1V4;Canada fn:Jason Terlecki end:vcard - --------------779CD1F7DF968A38ED941B44-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:15:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1252 > From: BillionSix@aol.com > > Hmm, my (also meager) understanding of hypnosis says slightly different. For > a person who doesn't mind surrendering control, that works fine. For a > stronger willed, independent person, hypnotists use the "you're still in > control, I'm just helping you." line to guide them into a hypnotic state. > Besides, in self-hypnosis, you're not giving up control to anyone. > Would the meditation skill in the Liber Canticorum be similar to > self-hypnosis? It does allow deep focus that allows you to boost your > abilities? Just a different name for the same skill basically? Doesn't a hypnotic state give someone access to the subconscious mind? Do angels and demons have a subconscious in the same sense a human does? Or are they conscious of everything in their heads? I would think that for playing purposes (all the players are humans) that celestial minds would emulate human ones in structure but this might not be so. It might even be choir/band specific, with the Mecurians/Impudites with a mental architecture almost human in design and Seraphim/Balseraphs having a mental structure which differs greatly from a human's. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:38:15 -0500 From: "Mason Kramer" Subject: Re: IN> Vessels - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Terlecki To: in nomine mailing list Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 7:55 AM Subject: IN> Vessels > I do know that celestials can has children with mundanes (just look at > the Nephalim), but can a Female Vessel carry a child? What of the > child? Would he be born 1/2 divine (extra forces) or should you expect > some kind of Monster? > > > Jason Terlecki http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/tiny.problem.html A short vignette than answers all your questions. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 10:22:40 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vessels As I understand current canon, celestials cannot reproduce, with or without vessels, period, except by using Songs, which are TIGHTLY controlled by the Superiors of both sides. The Grigori were an exception, but they are off-stage for now. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:12:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vessels At 8:38 AM -0500 6/8/99, Mason Kramer wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jason Terlecki >To: in nomine mailing list >Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 7:55 AM >Subject: IN> Vessels > > >> I do know that celestials can has children with mundanes (just look at >> the Nephalim), but can a Female Vessel carry a child? What of the >> child? Would he be born 1/2 divine (extra forces) or should you expect >> some kind of Monster? >> >> >> Jason Terlecki > > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/tiny.problem.html > >A short vignette than answers all your questions. Except that it's entirely non-canon and was written by Derek, hm, at least one or two revisions ago. (In INS/MV, celestials breed somewhat normally, IIRC some comments. In IN/SJG, they don't.) However, with the right song, yes, a female vessel can carry a child. Check the Angelic Player's Guide for the Song of Fruition (though it should be errata'ed slightly to match the Liber Canticorum), and the 'celestial' aspects (usually almost zilch) of the resulting offspring. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 17:45:20 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: IN> Fiat Justitia I'm mostly writing to recommend the Fiat Justitia game logs to everyone that hasn't read them. However, when I get done with th praise, they have actually raised a rules question to me. This is just flat out good reading, without the usual qualifiers one often puts on this kind of work. These are some fine characters, and the situations they're dropped in are quite interesting. The only real reservation I have is that some of the formatting is disointed, particularly when here are two conversations going on in different places that are intermixed. It'll take a bit of getting used to, and there are some where I've highlighted the parts of one thread in order to follow them better. One word of warning: these logs do have the Habballah resonance, specifically tuned to the Jealousy emotion. I've been trying for twenty years to get friends who would run a game that has this feel, and now I'm the kid who wakes up on December 26th and realizes he slept through Christmas. The question: resonances are used frequently to establish whether a character is celstial or human, and often achieve this on fairly low check digits. Is this the way it is intended to work? This game makes it seem like it isn't difficult *at all* to tell whether someone is clestial or human, and that's not the sense I got from the rulebooks. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 19:17:22 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Balseraphs of the Media.... ....or something for a cool Illuminated campaign? Check out http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa053199.htm - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:34:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Fiat Justitia On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, Eeyore wrote: > I'm mostly writing to recommend the Fiat Justitia game logs to everyone > that hasn't read them. I'll second that. > The question: resonances are used frequently to establish whether a > character is celstial or human, and often achieve this on fairly low > check digits. Is this the way it is intended to work? This game makes > it seem like it isn't difficult *at all* to tell whether someone is > clestial or human, and that's not the sense I got from the rulebooks. Fiat Justica has a house rule on the Lilim resonance that you get *all* the Needs up to the level of your check digit. This makes the Lilim resonance a pretty good Celestial detector, even on a low check digit, when it wouldn't be if you only got one Need. My personal opinion: The Mercurian resonance is also pretty good at detecting Celestials on medium-to-high check digits, unless you play that Roles mask the results. The Malakim resonance may or may not work as a Celestial detector on low check digits, depending on an individual; it usually will on high check digits (worst or best things you've done within the last year is pretty indicative.) Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 19:55:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> And the Bands Played On: Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed On the plain of Har-Meggido... Lucifer struggled in futility as he was held in Michael's grip. Battered and wounded, he still had some strength left, but every effort to free himself only resulted in Michael tightening his grip, causing him searing agony he hadn't felt since the Fall. Still, he did not scream, just fought past the pain and tried again. All around him lay the remnants of his forces. Burnt and bloodied vessels, abandoned and destroyed artifacts, the ringing symphonic echoes of soul death, were all that was left of his once mighty Infernal Horde. Among the slain were some of his mightiest Princes, and the ones who hadn't died had fled weakened and wounded back to Hell, where they hoped to make one last desperate stand. Hell's defeat seemed all but final. Yet even in defeat he refused to be beaten. He was determined to deny Michael his rest, deny the Heaven at least one victory. "Release me Michael and I'll spare your life! I'll break free eventually, you know that. All your struggle buys you is my wrath!" To this Michael smirked and replied, "A liar to the end, eh? You must be desperate to try your lies on me. It didn't work then and it won't work now. I know the Truth." With that Michael wrenched his hold tighter, and Lucifer forced down a scream as he felt another Force tear away from him. Suddenly there was a Presence upon the field, and the Light of Heaven illuminated the combatants. The two figures averted their eyes, one out of reverence, one out of pain, as the Holy Radiance shone down upon them. "MICHAEL, RELEASE HIM," said a voice both firm and gentle, a voice Lucifer hadn't heard in eons, "LET HIM GO AND RETURN TO HEAVEN. I WISH TO SPEAK WITH HIM ALONE." Michael's grip loosened, and then was gone. Lucifer found himself alone on the plain. Alone except for God. Ignoring the pain it gave him, Lucifer forced himself to stare into the Light. He could not show weakness, not show fear, not even to Him. Especially to Him. "If you're expecting some sort of grattitude for sparing me for a moment, they I'm sorry to disappoint you. I know how this has to end. So save us both the time and strike me down now. Because I will never concede defeat." The Light of Heaven disappeared, or more acccurately, coelesced into a humanoid figure. In the place of the Divine Radiance was an elderly, gray-haired man wearing spectacles. He wore a light brown shirt and pants, and his kind face had expression of sadness on it. "I don't care about winning and losing," said God sadly, "I never wanted this day to come. It was your choice which led to The War. Your choices which led to The Final Battle. I doesn't have to end the way you say. Even now you have a choice." "A choice?" asked Lucifer angrily, "What choice? The choice to get on my knees and beg for forgiveness like some pathetic, lowly servitor? To return to heaven a pariah, an outcast loathed by the Host and the Blessed, condemned to irrelevancy in the scheme of things? If that's the choice then I choose oblivion. Better nonexistence than such a hideous fate!" "I'm sorry you feel that way," replied God, shaking his head sorrowfully, "I had hoped, that even with all that's happened, you could still find some desire to redeem within you. To rejoin heaven once more." "Spare me your pity and sentiment. I fought against you and lost. That's all there is to it. Just get it over with and destroy me now." Lucifer closed his eyes and bowed his head, waiting for the inevitable end. "Lucifer," said God quietly, "I'm not going to kill you." He reached over and placed a hand on Lucifer's chin. Lucifer looked up startled and concerned." "What will you do then? Have Michael or Laurence kill me for sport? Drag me back to Heaven in chains for Dominic to try? Diminish me to a reliever?" "I'm going to give you what you want." And with this power flowed from God's fingers, restoring Lucifer to what he was before Armageddon. "I'm going to to give you the Symphony." Curious and confused as his full power was restored to him Lucifer stammered "Wha-What do you mean by that?" "I'm returning to the Upper Heavens, and taking the others with me. The angels, the saints, demons who wish to redeem, humans who choose to go, I'm taking them all and leaving. The rest I leave to you. Earth, The Marches, Hell, and all the Fallen, Damned, and abstainers who are left. It's all yours. You wish to be alone, to be separated from my Presence. Well then I grant you your wish. My last gift to you son. I only wish it didn't have to be this way." God's form dissolved into light and grew until the Divine Radiance filled the entire plain. Lucifer looked up and shouted in all directions. "You mean it's all mine? No interference from you?" "I WILL NOT INTERFERE AGAINST YOUR WILL. THE SYMPHONY IS YOURS, AS IS THE BURDEN OF MAINTAINING IT..." And as the Light slowly faded away Lucifer wondered for a second whether he made the right choice. Then he dismissed such notions. It was much too late for regrets. And The Bands Played On: A Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed: Armageddon has come and gone. The Angels have won, and left the field victorious, taking the deserving who chose to go with them. All that remains are the Fallen, the Damned, the Ethereals and their faithful, and any humans who chose to stay. Heaven is closed, but everything else falls under the Symphony of Lucifer. Lucifer Lucifer has found out that playing God is not all that it's cracked up to be. It's a full time job. Where as before Armageddon he devoted most of his time and power to confounding the will of God and managing The War now most of his time and power are tied up maintaining the Symphony in the absence of God, lest everything slowly grind to a halt. The result of this is that he is even more remote from the events of Earth and Hell than before, and the only way he involves himself in the doings of his subjects is by Interventions. Now that he is in his new position, Lucifer finds that he has no particular favorites, but just intervenes for or against someone depending on his current whims. A 666 is a favorable intervention for the one who rolls it. You've caught Lucifer's fancy for the moment, and he wants to reward you. A 111 means you gained Lucifer's temporary ire, or he thinks that messing with you would be amusing. Other than that, Lucifer remains as removed from the World as God was before. Must come with the Job. The New Factions When Armageddon began the strength of Hell left to enage the Hosts forces on Earth. The damned souls remained behind, along with a number of demons and demonlings determined to be enough to keep the humans in line. And they would have to, if the humans were a disorganized, poorly motivated rabble without hope. Unfortunately that was not the case. One common mistake many demons make is to underestimate the cunning, resourcefulness, and sheer capacity for treachery of humans, and they had made that mistake yet again. For millenia demons have been treating the damned in hell as nothing more than essence batteries. In some principalities they got treated better than in others but for all intents and purposes they were thought of as beings of no consequence. It was this attitude which caused them to overlook the fact that underneath their very noses humans had formed a secret organization, and had been quietly gathering knowledge and resources, waiting patiently for the right time to enact their plans. With Armageddon the day had come at last, and all the centuries of planning finally came to fruition. Among the leaders of the organization was a Sorceror who claimed to be Count St. Germain, who had been working in the Archives. Using the knowledge deeper mysteries he managed to glean from the books he worked with, he and a cabal of his fellows travelled to the Chasm in Abaddon. Once there, they managed to use Germain's knowledge to harvest the Forces in the Chasm. The others gained power equal to that of powerful celestials, but it was St. Germain himself who gained the real prize. Using the power he had gained, and the mallebility of the Symphony at the time of transference between God and Lucifer, he somehow managed to gain enough power to equal a Demon Prince, and even somehow convinced the Symphony to give him the Word Knowledge. No one is exactly sure how he did it, but some theorize just as Lucifer used his power as a Baleseraph to lie to the Symphony to grant words, St. Germain had managed in the transition time to win a Will War with the Symphony and command it to grant him Knowledge. Using their new found power, St. Germain and the others went about augmenting other humans with Forces to make them more formidable. Former Soldiers had taught others songs, and they had managed to steal artifacts and weapons. All this, combined with the fact that the damned just plain outnumbered the demons in Hell, meant that when the Infernal Horde returned from Armageddon weakened by their defeat, humans were a credible threat. After a series of skirmishes, battles, and shows of power, St. Germain managed to gain some allies among the surviving Princes, mostly from among those whose Words are strongly supported by Humanity. The rest of the Princes were hardliners who wish to stick with the old way of doing things. Open warefare hasn't broken out yet, but the threat remains. Here's how the factions line up: The Utopia Faction: The Hardliners: Neutral: Dead: St. Germain Asmodeus Malphas Baal Lilith Kronos Alaemon Haagenti Andrealphus Belial Saminga Kobal Vapula Magog Nybbas Fleurity Furfur Mammon Beleth Valefor (MIA) The Utopia Faction believes they can make a Heaven out of Hell, or at least carve out a pleasant existence from eternity. Lilith supports the cause wholeheartedly, because freeing humans and a free society greatly supports her word. Kobal is in because he finds a revolution in Hell funny and ironic. Nybbas is in because humans make some of the best content for Media, as well as the best customers, and it is the hip happening thing right now. Andrealphus is in because the rest of the Shal-mari Princes are, and free or not, humans will always support his word. And Mammon sees great opportunity and wants to get in on the ground floor. All possess Words humans find palabtle in supporting, and thus see their hand strengthened by this new development. The Hardliner Faction wants the old Hell, a return to the status quo. Asmodeus is the leader of this group, and is deeply commited to the cause (well, as committed as a djinn can be). He sees the Utopia Faction as being directly opposed to his Word, as they are trying to break the Rules of The Game. Kronos opposes them because they are attempting to go against their Fate, and actually make a pleasant life out of what should be the darkest point of their existence. Belial opposes it because he likes to burn humans, and most humans if given a choice would rather not be set on fire. And Vapula and Fleurity oppose it due to their Habbalite nature. Their dammned. They're not supposed to be enjoying the afterlife. If they were they'd be in Heaven. Malphas, of course, remains neutral, trying to stir up trouble for both sides. Alaemon also is neutral, because such a cold war encourages intrigue and secrets, which supports his word. Among the dead Baal, Haagenti, Magog, Furfur, and Valefor were killed during Armageddon (Valefor is missing, presumed dead). St. Germain's Cabal and a huge mob of disgruntled Death servitors killed the weakened Saminga when he returned from Earth. And the weakened Beleth was killed in a joint attack by St. Germain's forces, and the Ethereal Gods. The Marches With Beleth gone, and Bladine in the Upper Heavens, the Marches are held by the Ethereals once more. Most of the Pantheons have mutual pacts of defense, should Hell decide to enroach against them. They also have an alliance with the Utopia faction, because human dreams are important to Ethereals, and they want to keep a Sorceror with the power of a Superior on their good side. The various Gods of Sleep and Dreams are working together divide the former duties of Bladine and Beleth among them, and see that dreamers aren't preyed upon by other beings. The Marches themselves are considered neutral ground, and the Pantheons will try nip any possibilities of major battles occuring there. Of course, their are those War gods, who love any excuse for a fight. The Corporeal Realm Earth, as always, is a battleground. With the angels and their soldiers out of the way, both sides are working to claim territory and resources on Earth. The only ones who were left on Earth were the damned and those who chose to stay. They're the neutrals, who could be swayed to either side. Both sides are sending forces up their to promote their interests. Even damned humans can get vessels to go to Earth now, either due to a subtle change in the Symphony or the possibility that St. Germain learned how to make Infernal Saints. In addition to all the other reasons to want Earth, their a number of artifacts and resources leftover from Armageddon which belonged to both demons AND ANGELS. Also lurking on Earth are a number of mercenary undead, sorcerors, pagans faithful to the Ethereals, and maybe even The Dozen. Heaven Little is known about Lower Heaven except for the fact that it is still around. Great storms and reality distortions occur on its border with the Marches, which few have attempted to cross, and fewer still have claimed to return. It is theorized Lower Heaven is still part of God's Symphony and the storms are cause by the clash of God and Luicifer's Symphonies causing feedback. Tethers to Heaven all lie dormant, all though there have been rumors of some being able to somehow activate one. Tales say the Light of Heaven still shines on abandoned Cathedrals. Other stories say their are still angels in Heaven, that Tsaydim have stayed behind to guard Heaven from any who would defile it's purity with their presence. Tales even less believed state that Uriel himself has returned to command them. Not only that, but he is God's last gift to the damned, leaving the possibility of salvation open. He waits in Heaven, ready to redeem repentant demons and purify the damned of their sins, so that they climb Jacobs Ladder and join God in the Upper Heavens. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 02:19:46 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1252 In a message dated 6/8/99 8:16:25 AM Central Daylight Time, ben@HiWAAY.net writes: << Doesn't a hypnotic state give someone access to the subconscious mind? Do angels and demons have a subconscious in the same sense a human does? Or are they conscious of everything in their heads? I would think that for playing purposes (all the players are humans) that celestial minds would emulate human ones in structure but this might not be so. It might even be choir/band specific, with the Mecurians/Impudites with a mental architecture almost human in design and Seraphim/Balseraphs having a mental structure which differs greatly from a human's. >> I'd considered that. This is one of those nagging little questions that we'll never have a complete answer to because for all that we know about how celestial beings "behave" we can never completely know how they "think". Hell, humans have enough trouble figuring out how other humans think. Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 13:32:31 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> And the Bands Played On: Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed Interesting concept. I once read of a Gnostic sect that believed essentially in this idea of the end of the War -- though they did not bother to extrapolate events on Earth after God extracts all the Blessed and cedes it to Satan. Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1253 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.